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JOY BEHAR SHOW

Chris Lee`s Topless Troubles; Finding Love Online; Interview With Robert Reich

Aired February 14, 2011 - 22:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOY BEHAR, HOST: Everybody keeps saying that Lady Gaga ripped off Madonna at the Grammys last night, but on the other hand, they were raving about Cee Lo. So how come nobody is complaining that he ripped off Elton John, or before that Cher, or before that Queen Elizabeth, or before that Big Bird for that matter?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, think you had a rough Valentine`s Day? At least you`re not patching things up with a husband who sent shirtless photos to a woman over at Craigslist. Here to dish on that story and other relationships disasters is "Millionaire Matchmaker" Patti Stanger

Then, even with Lady Gaga hatching from an egg, it was the big-named legends who were the talk of the Grammys.

Plus Joy and her "View" co-hosts sat down with Oprah. Stick around as Joy shares some behind-the-scenes moments from the "Oprah Winfrey Show".

That and more, starting right now.

BEHAR: Happy Valentine`s everyone. And what says Valentine`s Day more than former New York Congressman Chris Lee. Remember him? He resigned late last week after trolling for women on Craigslist, and even sent this lovely piece of beefcake to one of them. The politician claimed he was 39 and single. Not. He`s 46 and very married.

Lee is reportedly spending some time at a Florida resort with his wife, trying to patch things up. So can their marriage be saved? You know what? And why can`t he buy a hooker like most normal politicians?

Here to tell me the latest on this story is Ana Marie Cox, Washington correspondent for "GQ" Magazine. Ana Marie, ok, tell me what is going on with this lovely couple. They have a little bit of a respite from the situation, right?

ANA MARIE COX, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, "GQ" MAGAZINE: Right, they`re hunkering down in Florida. She`s at least getting a good vacation out of this. And I want to point out, by the way Joy, you said, you know, why didn`t he hire a hooker like everyone else? Well, he`s a Republican, so --

BEHAR: Only the Democrats spend money?

COX: He`s cutting the budget. There`s budget -- they`re here in Washington. He probably had that in mind. You don`t pay for what you think you can get for free. It`s a line item. Maybe he can tell his wife that. He`s getting money for the household.

Obviously, this is going to be a bit of a rough patch for them. I do think this is standard playbook for Republican wives, thought, that they have to at least go through the motions of standing beside the husband even if in the end nothing else happened.

BEHAR: Well, Jenny Sanford didn`t do that. She walked away. This one could walk away.

(CROSSTALK)

COX: That`s true. But also, Jenny Sanford knew a lot more about her what her husband was doing than I think Michelle knows about what Chris Lee was up to.

I can tell you that there are people -- there are local reporters in New York that are hot on the trail of other things he might have done. I can`t say for sure or know for sure what those might be, but there`s definitely whispering in New York that there`s other stuff to follow up on. In which case, I think she might -- she has a good out.

Right now, even though what they`re doing down there, maybe she`s just using the spa. I would.

BEHAR: I read that her first marriage ended with a guy who cheated on her.

COX: That`s right. She married her childhood sweetheart, actually. And he cheated on her. So apparently, she is attracted to bad boys, cost savings, bad boys.

BEHAR: And you said there`s other stuff coming out that she probably didn`t know. So maybe she`s just like -- she`s in denial, she`s in the zone, poor thing.

COX: Well, yes, she`s in denial, but I think a lot -- that`s true for a lot of couples. I mean if we take a second and look at the human aspect of this, if you ask, can this marriage be saved? If a couple really wants to stay together, of course, it can be saved. And for whatever reason, they might want to stay together, for good reasons or bad reasons.

BEHAR: Ok.

COX: I think that this is just a time where -- if I were her, I would be looking at the good and bad reasons for staying together and see what they come up with.

BEHAR: All right. Ok. Thank you very much, Ana Marie for the update. Appreciate it.

Now I want to bring in Patti Stanger, star of Bravo`s hit show, "Millionaire Matchmaker"; and Dr. Laura Berman, host of "In the Bedroom" on OWN, which is Oprah Winfrey`s channel.

What are you -- you were going like this while she was talking.

PATTI STANGER, "MILLIONAIRE MATCHMAKER: I`m like -- come one. First of all, we don`t know what is going on behind closed doors. Is this an open marriage? Do they do this?

BEHAR: I do not think so.

STANGER: When Spitzer stood next -- when Spitzer`s wife came out and stood next to him, like, honey you know she wasn`t swinging in the bedroom with them? We don`t know what`s going down.

BEHAR: Silda (ph)?

STANGER: Anybody could be doing this. You don`t know -- you think all these little girls are like, you know, pristine little angels, they`re not. If they look the other way, it`s because they`re getting paid for it.

BEHAR: Why do women, Dr. Laura, why do women go for men who cheat? What is that about -- the psychological aspect?

DR. LAURA BERMAN, OWN HOST, "IN THE BEDROOM": There are all sorts of -- ok, well, the first thing I need to tell you. This probably is the tip of the iceberg of what he`s been engaging in. This is just the time he got caught.

Usually when a woman repeatedly and this could be considered a pattern, since this is the second time. But when you find yourself repeatedly in relationships with guys who cheat, who aren`t available, it`s usually -- the clinical term for it is repetition compulsion. That basically means that you feel so badly about yourself, usually because of an early childhood thing, your dad cheated on your mom, you`re trying to make it right.

I`m going to be so lovable, so wonderful that that this time, I`m going to reform the cheater, and if he doesn`t cheat, or he decides not to be a cheater anymore then I can feel value.

BEHAR: That`s interesting, of course, trying to correct the original sin.

BERMAN: And I want her, whatever decision she makes, I want her to get into some individual therapeutic work by herself and get her own center back.

BEHAR: Ok, let`s talk about him for a second. Here is a guy who is a congressman. He`s up in Buffalo someplace. He`s e-mailing this woman on Craigslist back and forth.

STANGER: With his real name.

BEHAR: With his real name, and his real picture sans clothing. How stupid is he? And why is he in Congress when he should know that all she has to do is Google the guy and up came his picture with clothing. Did he think that she wouldn`t recognize him with his shirt off?

STANGER: I really -- I mean she`s from Virginia, she knows about the Washington climate.

BEHAR: Yes.

Stanger: Number two, he could have gone on match.com and been more inconspicuous. I mean he really picks the worst place. Craigslist is the worst place next to Facebook. So technically speaking, he knew what he was doing, but what Kool-Aid was he drinking, that`s what I want to know?

BEHAR: Doesn`t everybody Google guys these days?

STANGER: If you get a full name, you do. But sometimes you only get the first name. You get Stan 1, 2, 3, 4 and you don`t know who the last name is. And that`s where it`s up to the women -- I always tell women, you`re on online, get off line. Use your own, you know, little low-key e- mail that nobody knows about. You use strictly for dating, and ask him questions. Who are you? Where do you live? What do you do for a living? Ask questions.

BERMAN: Fact-checking. Fact-checking.

BEHAR: So, what is the pathology of this guy? Did he want to get caught?

BERMAN: On some level clearly, he wanted to get caught. Why else would you put your picture up and your name anywhere if you`re a public figure? My guess is either he`s gotten extremely cocky because he`s been doing this for a long time and has just gotten lazy about it. More than likely, he just didn`t care, and there`s a part of him that is compulsive or wanting to stop, and he can`t, and he figured, what the heck.

BEHAR: I see.

BERMAN: There`s a real -- and then also, with people who are risk- takers -- and this guy is clearly he`s engaging in risky behavior -- with people who are risk takers, that`s part of the thrill, almost getting caught -- a la Bill Clinton.

STANGER: Bill Clinton yes.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: That was crazy behavior.

Now, let`s talk about the Internet because I read a survey that said that 64 percent of people think the Internet has made cheating easier.

STANGER: Yes, it is. 100 percent, same with porn. Same with porn.

BERMAN: Absolutely.

STANGER: You can cross over to porn, you can cross back to cheating. You can cross to America anywhere and you can do it internationally now.

BERMAN: Not that porn and cheating are the same thing.

STANGER: No, no, but it leads to one another because we have this higher standard of what we should be with. We think, you know, like I want say zero expect to ten and you expect to do better in L.A., everyone is expecting that. And they`re going international with it. You know Internet is everywhere.

BERMAN: People who are -- you know, you`re in a boring marriage, you`ve been fighting a lot. You go on one of these networking sites, you get back in touch with your ex-boyfriend from high school. You remember what you were like back then.

STANGER: Facebook.

BEHAR: And the fantasy, it`s like the way we were.

Suddenly, your husband is walking around with shorts and knee-socks and you`re thinking about this guy who was hot in high school. Meanwhile, he`s probably bald and fat.

BERMAN: And walking around in his socks, too.

BEHAR: And what pictures are they showing on Facebook? They`re showing good pictures right?

BERMAN: Yes. And then they start talking -- Facebook actually is being cited in 1 in 5 divorces now because it`s becoming such a great place to sort of reconnect, and then one thing leads to another.

BEHAR: So what`s the solution? What do you girls -- what do you tell women out there on Valentine`s Day.

STANGER: Well, you have to do your calls and your (INAUDIBLE). Look, you have do your due diligence. You have to research, find out and don`t call it in. Don`t fall in love over the net. I say to people, if people are falling in love and getting married over the net without even meeting each other. I get e-mails all day long about this.

BEHAR: It`s not a date.

BERMAN: If you`re in a relationship, the rule of thumb is you should never act, say, or behave in any way that you wouldn`t act, say, or behave in front of your partner when it comes to romantic and sexual endeavors.

BEHAR: But then you`re not cheating. They want to act differently. They don`t want --

STANGER: There`s a site for cheating; that`s ashleymadison.com which is a cheating site. If you`re going to cheat, go on a cheating site where other cheaters cheat and tell your wife goodbye or your husband goodbye.

BEHAR: Is cheating on the rise all around or is it just that we know more about it?

STANGER: Yes, I think so. I think it`s a disposable society. People have less patience than we had.

BERMAN: And also, it`s a cop-out I think. Instead of our relationship, all relationships get a little bit off course again and again, that`s the natural default position. And then when it starts to get stale or we`re arguing a little bit too much, instead of saying ok, how can we get ourselves back on track and do the work that that takes? There`s someone there who thinks we`re the greatest thing that ever lived, that we have no history with.

BEHAR: It`s irresistible.

BERMAN: Yes. Let`s just go back -- it`s a fantasy.

BEHAR: I`m telling you it`s a problem, but is it the right conversation on Valentine`s Day?

BERMAN: No.

STANGER: Well, probably not but probably today is the number one day a lot of people are cheating.

BEHAR: Ok. We`re going to have some more in a minute so just sit right there. Don`t go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Lady Gaga hatches and Bob Dylan`s voice scratches. Joy and her panel will recap the Grammy hits and misses.

And Joy tells you what the camera didn`t capture from Oprah`s interview with "The View" ladies.

Now back to Joy.

BEHAR: I`m back with Patti Stanger and Dr. Laura Berman. And we`re talking about relationships on this lovely Valentine`s Day. There`s a new poll out. I love polls, don`t you?

STANGER: I love polls.

BEHAR: Yes, Lech Walesa (ph) is my favorite. Ok, 49 percent of women say they feel more successful than their spouse. Now this is very new.

PATTI STANGER, STAR, "MILLIONAIRE MATCHMAKER": Yes.

BEHAR: I mean, do you think it hurt -- it`s hurting marriages that women make more money, bring the bacon home more than the men?

(CROSS TALK)

DR. LAURA BERMAN, HOST, "IN THE BEDROOM": Only if she or he resents it. I mean, let`s face it that part of the man`s identity still in this modern age is his ability to be needed, that`s a big part of his relationship satisfaction.

So can she earn more than him? Sure, but if she resents him for it, if she`s critical of him, or if he`s just lost his job and feel -- feels horrible about himself --

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: Yes but you know what, Laura --

BERMAN: -- then it could be an issue.

BEHAR: -- you need a man for more than bringing home money.

(CROSS TALK)

STANGER: Right.

BERMAN: I agree.

STANGER: I agree.

BEHAR: I mean I make more than my spousal equivalent at the moment. He`s a retired teacher, and he -- I need him to set up the VCR. I need him to take out the garbage --

(CROSS TALK)

BERMAN: Right take the garbage out. Yes.

STANGER: Yes.

BEHAR: I need him to make dinner for me when I`m really stressed.

BERMAN: But he came into the relationship with you knowing and securing himself. Now let`s say --

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: He came into this relationship with me many years ago when I didn`t -- no money. I was making less money than he was.

So maybe that --

BERMAN: You came up together.

STANGER: But did he -- he liked the fact that you kind of took over the ball and he got to retire?

BEHAR: He doesn`t mind it at all. He kind of likes it, I think.

BERMAN: Yes.

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: He`s happily retired.

STANGER: So ok, you married a really confident man.

BEHAR: I did.

BERMAN: Yes.

STANGER: But how much percentage of the male population is confident? Probably 10 percent.

BEHAR: Yes.

BERMAN: And if they just -- and let`s say right now, he was earning more than you --

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: Yes.

BERMAN: -- and now he just lost his job.

BEHAR: Yes.

BERMAN: Like it`s happening with so many relationships.

BEHAR: Right.

BERMAN: Then that`s a totally different story?

BEHAR: But that`s a particular instance of --

(CROSS TALK)

STANGER: But that`s what`s happening now with the 46 percent.

BERMAN: Women are surpassing men.

BEHAR: So what should women do? When the man really did lose his job?

STANGER: Well, now women -- women cannot be cut -- not be cut off at the knees if we`re making money.

BEHAR: Yes.

STANGER: We can`t be punished for this.

BEHAR: I see.

STANGER: We`ve earned, we spent years getting in the workforce. Then we deserve equal money, equal time, equal pay.

BERMAN: But it`s not just his work to get over it.

STANGER: I think -- I think you need to give him more sex. Personally, calm down.

BERMAN: Sex is a big part of it, but it`s also about letting him -- there`s a difference between control and power, she may have a lot more financial power, but let him have some of the control. Let him feel like a man from time to time.

BEHAR: Ok.

BERMAN: And that makes a huge difference.

BEHAR: Well, I mean, men need to be needed just like women do.

STANGER: Yes we all need to be needed.

BEHAR: But if they have a fragile ego, I would think it`s difficult.

STANGER: Yes.

BEHAR: Ok, so here are some viewer questions for you because you two are the experts.

"I just finished my third relationship in two years and want to jump right back in. Should I dump him?"

STANGER: No, every relationship brings you to the best one.

(CROSS TALK)

BERMAN: My mother is married three times.

BEHAR: But this is the third in two years?

STANGER: It`s ok. She might have had three months and four months it depends what it is?

BERMAN: I disagree.

STANGER: And you can`t like put everything all eggs in one basket. You have to really look at each individual.

(CROSS TALK)

BERMAN: I do agree with that.

STANGER: She might be growing and evolving and this is getting closer to the nest -- to the right one.

BERMAN: But here is my rule of thumb --

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: Yes.

BERMAN: -- if you want a serious relationship. It doesn`t mean you can`t date, but you should be single for half the time you were in that serious relationship, up until four years. Now that doesn`t mean you can`t date.

BEHAR: What does that mean?

STANGER: It`s like two years? It`s like two years.

BEHAR: What are you talking about?

(CROSS TALK)

STANGER: What are you talking about?

BERMAN: If you`re in a four year relationship --

BEHAR: Yes.

(CROSS TALK)

BERMAN: -- if you`re in a four-year relationship and it wasn`t your choice to break up --

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: Yes.

BERMAN: -- and it was a back break-up, unless you do some serious work on yourself, figure out what you -- I know this will put you out of business --

(CROSS TALK)

STANGER: You know what you --

BERMAN: -- but figure out what you -- figure out what you learned --

STANGER: You would --

BERMAN: No, you wouldn`t. No you wouldn`t -- I`m talking about two years.

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: Are you saying that after a breakup you have to look at yourself and say, what did I do wrong?

(CROSS TALK)

STANGER: You have to look at yourself, right.

BEHAR: I totally agree with that.

BERMAN: Right and what I might have learned?

STANGER: And that exactly that`s two years, she`s saying two years.

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: No it could be two years.

BERMAN: So let`s say -- let`s say you have been in --

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: Yes.

BERMAN: -- in a four-year marriage. Your self-esteem is crumbled. You`ve been putting up with crap for a long time. You feel badly about yourself, you`re going to go out, go out on a date, get involved with the same stuff.

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: Like --

BERMAN: Yes, like you`re going to get right involved with the same thing again, find yourself in the same place again and again and unless you figure out who you are and you`re secure with yourself and you know what lessons you need to take from the past relationship.

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: And you know what you did wrong. Don`t you agree with that, Patti?

BERMAN: Yes.

STANGER: No.

BERMAN: She`ll be out of business if you get --

STANGER: No, it`s not that. It`s that I do believe in 90-day detox (INAUDIBLE) matchmaker. What I don`t --

BERMAN: How come --

STANGER: But it the 90 days it`s like an intervention, it`s a boot camp. But here is the thing, if we wait this long, there are no men as there is for the women. It`s the statistic prove there are way more women than men.

(CROSS TALK)

STANGER: So if you are -- if you are in a competitive society --

BEHAR: There`s plenty of women, yes.

STANGER: -- especially in New York where it`s 5-1, what are you going to do? Wait, wait, wait?

(CROSS TALK)

BERMAN: You`re going to attract someone into your life --

(CROSS TALK)

STANGER: -- no, I believe when you change your energy, you change your life. And it could be 90 days and then the right guy comes in. You attract.

BEHAR: Well, I believe that.

BERMAN: I do, too, but I don`t know that 90 days is going to do it. I mean, maybe if it was a lame breakup and you just want -- and you`ve been dating for six months.

BEHAR: I think it depends on how screwed up the marriage was.

BERMAN: Yes.

STANGER: Right.

BEHAR: Or how screwed up you are.

STANGER: Right, exactly I agree with that.

BEHAR: Yes, ok, here`s another one. "I have been dating the same guy for six years and no proposal. How long is too long?"

BERMAN: A year. This is her question. Where I might I don`t believe --

STANGER: Twelve months.

BEHAR: She`s been dating him for six years.

STANGER: Twelve months she`s like, now it`s time to put up or shut up. You call it the ultimatum. You say to him, listen, when I met you, we wanted to get married. You changed your mind, whatever happened. I realize you`re a great catch, but I need to move on. By Thursday I`ll take a stop by to your apartment, tell the doormen I`m showing up. And that`s what you do.

And you don`t make it like it`s a bad thing. You just go hey, we`re not on the same page.

BEHAR: What if he didn`t want to get married the guy?

BERMAN: If you want to get married and he doesn`t, then you`ve got to move on.

STANGER: Yes that`s a jawbreaker.

BEHAR: Yes but that`s easier said than done.

BERMAN: Right.

BEHAR: You were attached to the guy for six years.

BERMAN: Right and you`ve invested -- so this is how women stay stuck. You`ve invested all this time in him, you`ve spent -- you`ve -- you know, now, are you going to find someone else? You`re ready to have kids. You know, these are all the reasons that women stay in bad relationships. You`re better off --

(CROSS TALK)

STANGER: And for the sex. They stay for the sex a lot.

BERMAN: Yes, maybe sometimes.

BEHAR: Do you have a golden rule for the first date?

STANGER: Well, you`re not supposed to have sex on the first date?

BEHAR: Really?

STANGER: But -- but -- but wait, wait, wait, wait.

BEHAR: It`s too late.

STANGER: I know, really. But if the guy gives you commitment, if the guy gives you commitment it is a risk. You can take it even if it is the first date. Sometimes we have a knowing; a lot of first dates, people who ended up having sex on the first date got married, so it`s not an absolute.

But he`s got to give you a commitment -- monogamy.

BEHAR: Ok.

BERMAN: On the first date?

STANGER: On the first date.

BERMAN: I agree, if you want a serious relationship, you should not be having sex with him until you clear that you`re only with each other.

BEHAR: I think that that`s a ridiculous rule of thumb, but I`m just saying.

(CROSS TALK)

BERMAN: And that`s a just --

BEHAR: I think some people that I know stayed together for many years, who have sex on the first hour.

STANGER: Yes.

BEHAR: And others didn`t have sex for five years are now divorced, they hate each other.

STANGER: That`s once you have the knowing like that.

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: I mean --

STANGER: Knowing, knowing that you`re going to distance, you have the knowing.

BEHAR: I`m not saying it was me.

Thanks ladies, Patti`s new DVD, Patti Stanger, "Married in a Year" is out now.

I`ll have more with the lovely Dr. Laura Berman in just a minute. Ok.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Becky and Steve were a normal, happy couple with a very active sex life, but when Steve became Mr. Mom and Becky took control financially, that`s when the trouble started. Back with me to talk about this story is Dr. Laura Berman, host of "In the Bedroom" and joining us is Becky who was featured on "In the Bedroom".

Ok, Becky, you and your husband were having problems with your sex life. Tell me what happened.

BECKY, FEATURED ON "IN THE BEDROOM": Well, basically, we had been married for 15 years, and about three years ago, my husband wanted to go back to school, and the kids were off in school, so we thought it was a great idea. And it was until I decided to take on too many roles and things just seemed like they started falling apart for us.

BEHAR: For you. What did you do when Steve and you weren`t connecting in the bedroom? Did you think about having an affair?

BECKY: Definitely can cross your mind. But I just feel like there was something we needed help. And it went too long without help, for sure.

BEHAR: How long before you had sex? From the time you were having sex to the time you were not having sex, how long a gap was that?

BECKY: Well, I mean, honestly, there was never a time that we weren`t necessarily totally having sex, per se, but as far as really making love --

BEHAR: Good sex.

BECKY: Exactly, good sex, it was kind of more of all right, do it, get it done. Yes.

BEHAR: So, ok --

BERMAN: Hi, Becky.

BECKY: Hi, Dr. Berman.

BERMAN: I haven`t seen her since we worked together on the show.

BEHAR: I mean it sounds as though, you know, after 15 years of marriage don`t most people have a slowed-down sex life? What is so unusual here?

BERMAN: Yes. We all have ebbs and flows. And by the way, these guys were so unbelievably brave, and they just let me put them through the paces, and they really worked hard.

The thing is that we all go through ebbs and flows, but in Becky`s case, the relationship was really starting to disintegrate, so they would still have sex, but there was no connection. There was no emotional intimacy. There was no enjoyment.

BEHAR: But is it because she was working and financially bringing in the money or not?

BERMAN: That was part of it. A lot -- you know, it presents -- the case presents to me like this is an issue of technique. Becky was originally thinking -- both of them were thinking that it was Steve, that he just didn`t know what to do to sexually stimulate.

As soon as I got in there and started digging around it became clear that the roles had completely changed. She had lost a lot of respect for him. He hadn`t been stepping up in the ways that he could. There was a lot of miscommunication.

So that`s what I love about my job. I`m a general therapist and a sex therapist, but what is so cool is sex is never just about sex. Until they got their own relationship back on track, she started letting him take the reins a little bit more, because you`re a little bit of a control freak, right, Becky?

BEHAR: What is this about the laundry basket? I have no idea what that`s about?

BERMAN: Poor, Becky and the laundry -- look. Becky, do you mind if I talk -- she basically, like many women -- women sometimes get accidentally conditioned to certain types of stimulation in order to have an orgasm, and Becky -- a long story how she got there, and I can tell you if you want, but she arrived to a place where the only way she could reach orgasm in this relationship was using the bottom corner of a laundry basket.

BEHAR: Really? Becky, why not get a vibrator like every other woman?

BECKY: Well, you know, I don`t seem to do anything like any other woman, apparently but --

BEHAR: Was it something about the laundry room that was getting you started off?

BERMAN: It started in college, right, Becky?

BECKY: The laundry room is not exciting. I don`t like the laundry room.

BERMAN: Go ahead.

BEHAR: What you`re talking about is an inanimate object.

BERMAN: Well, she wasn`t in love with that -- it was the bottom corner. She needed something hard to provide -- that she could control the stimulation of and that was a very creative way to achieve it. I taught them how to do that, two human beings without the laundry basket.

BEHAR: Do you suggest this particular technique to patients?

BERMAN: No, that was -- I thought that was very creative of her, the laundry basket. No, that`s not something that I would normally recommend.

BEHAR: It`s very creative.

BERMAN: Yes.

BEHAR: Ok. Thank you ladies for sharing. Catch Dr. Laura Berman on her show, "In the Bedroom" Monday nights on own. We`ll be back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Last night`s Grammys were full of surprises. Perhaps the strangest, Lady Gaga entering the red carpet while inside an egg. I actually love this moment. I`m just sorry Frank Perdue wasn`t alive to see it.

Anyway, here to talk about the Grammys and other news du jour, are former pro wrestling champion Chris Jericho, author of "Undisputed: How to Become the World Champion in 1,372 Easy Steps."

CHRIS JERICHO, FORMER PRO WRESTLING CHAMPION: There you go, you got it.

BEHAR: Yeah. OK. Comedian Judy Gold. And host of "Showbiz Tonight," the fabulous A.J. Hammer.

OK, guys, now, Lady Gaga is being criticized for imitating Madonna. Did you see the show?

JUDY GOLD, COMEDIAN: Yes.

A.J. HAMMER, HOST, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT: Yes.

BEHAR: OK, so do you think she was imitating Madonna?

HAMMER: No. No, I think everybody has been done. I think everybody is certainly derivative of everybody else, but Gaga is certainly an original. If anything, it was an homage, it was a nod. But her people say no, absolutely not. You know, the ponytail and the song, sure, there are some similarities there, but I think it was very much (inaudible).

GOLD: Apparently, she was partying a lot before the Grammys.

BEHAR: Who, Gag?

GOLD: Yes, because when she showed up, she was fried.

(LAUGHTER)

GOLD: Oh, God.

(CROSSTALK)

JERICHO: Funny that she came out in an egg, though, because last time she wore a dress made of meat.

BEHAR: Yes, right.

JERICHO: Now all she needs to do is to do something with bread and fruit, and she`s got all the food groups covered.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

GOLD: You kind of could see her in the egg, and she was definitely scrambling in here. Oh, God, I`ve got dozens of these.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But the performance was excellent.

GOLD: Yeah.

BEHAR: OK.

GOLD: That`s funny.

BEHAR: Here is Lady Gaga (inaudible) last night. Let`s look at this. Watch.

(MUSIC)

BEHAR: OK, here`s Madonna doing "Express Yourself."

(MUSIC)

BEHAR: I don`t think they`re similar at all, do you?

GOLD: Well, she just adopted the dog and she named the dog Lourdes, so I don`t know.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: I mean, it`s a stunt--

HAMMER: It`s an homage.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: The egg thing was a stunt, wasn`t it, Chris? You`re a stunt (ph) guy.

JERICHO: (inaudible), but that`s what`s she`s into. I actually never did come to the ring in an egg, but there was a famous bit like 20 years ago of a wrestler who did debut in an egg, and he was called the Gobblygooker. And I`m not even kidding. It was like this weird turkey -- half turkey -- it sounds like I`m making this up, but it is real.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Get it, a dozen eggs?

(CROSSTALK)

HAMMER: The egg costume is going to be a tough one to reproduce at a costume party, for sure.

(CROSSTALK)

JERICHO: She just scrambled everyone`s brains when she came out.

BEHAR: We did a scrambled joke already.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Let`s talk about Mick Jagger.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: He was very energetic, wasn`t he?

GOLD: Well, he weighs 13 pounds, so --

BEHAR: But he`s 150 years old.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Was he on a natural high or was it the Metamucil kicking in?

(LAUGHTER)

HAMMER: Was it me or did that really go on and on and on?

BEHAR: It went on and on.

GOLD: It was a long one, yes.

JERICHO: It just shows that, you know, Mick, even at 67, has more charisma and more energy than most of the fabricated acts that were on. That`s kind of a sad thing, because when Mick is gone and Paul is gone, all these longtime stars, who is going to fill it up? Arcade Fire? We don`t know. Name an Arcade Fire song, anyone, anyone, anyone?

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: There are stars emerging. Those birds (ph) in the beginning were fantastic when they were doing the homage to, what do you call it, to Aretha.

HAMMER: Aretha.

JERICHO: Once again, it`s homage to Aretha. If you want to do an homage to Christina, you just have to screw up the national anthem.

GOLD: And the woman who won best new artist, she`s like talented.

JERICHO: What is her name?

GOLD: Esperanza.

(CROSSTALK)

HAMMER: I spoke with Aretha today on "Showbiz Tonight," and she absolutely adored that tribute to her.

GOLD: I did too (ph).

HAMMER: But she really talked about the fact that, you know, it was this mix of the older stars and people who have been around. You had Dylan, that was one of your favorite acts in--

GOLD: For a minute, I didn`t know if it was Dylan or Dick Clark. I had no idea.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Oh, that was low. That was wrong.

GOLD: I`m sorry.

BEHAR: What about Justin Bieber? He didn`t win anything.

HAMMER: Shut-out.

BEHAR: He didn`t win anything. Do you think he`s going to be bitter? I didn`t turn bitter until I was 30.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

HAMMER: He has got another 15 years to go.

GOLD: He has everything -- he has everything a 16-year-old could want. I mean, he`s got fame and fortune, and he was allowed to stay up past 10:00.

BEHAR: What about Eminem? Does anybody get Eminem? I don`t get Eminem.

(CROSSTALK)

HAMMER: I was surprised he didn`t win album of the year. He won best rap album. Yeah, I mean, he has a huge following, and understandably I think he`s an amazing artist, and Bieber did say as far as is he bitter, that it definitely did hurt for him to not win best new artist.

GOLD: Oh, poor baby.

JERICHO: If he lasts as long as me, he`s got another 15 years to go.

HAMMER: And his movie opened up at No. 2. over the weekend. It was a lousy weekend for him.

(CROSSTALK)

GOLD: Well, I remember when I was a kid and I watched the Grammys, everyone got dressed up. I mean, it`s like -- Eminem looked like he was going to Taco Bell. I mean, I just don`t understand.

BEHAR: But that`s their style. That`s their style.

GOLD: But remember when they had -- they used to have the tuxedos on- -

HAMMER: Now it`s much more eclectic.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Barbra Streisand gave the album of the year to Arcade Fire. I don`t even think they knew who she was. I mean, they didn`t say thank you, Barbra, or the great Barbra Streisand. She just gave it and walked off, and that was the end of it. Do they think they knew who she was?

JERICHO: I think there was too much of an age gap there. You know what I mean? You should have Madonna -- Madonna would have given the award--

GOLD: Everyone knows who Barbra Streisand is. I am sorry.

JERICHO: Apparently not Arcade Fire.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: That`s a very false argument, frankly.

GOLD: Right.

BEHAR: I mean, I didn`t know who Franny Bryce was, right, but I know that she existed.

GOLD: Right.

BEHAR: You have to do your homework, especially if you`re in the music business.

JERICHO: Do you think Arcade Fire cares if Barbra Sreisand gave them the award?

HAMMER: I think they did, because I think they cared that they were there. They were pretty humbled by the whole experience, and everybody -- Barbra is an icon--

(CROSSTALK)

JERICHO: They`re so excited to get the Grammy, they don`t know if it`s Barbra or care.

BEHAR: You know what, I don`t care about the Arcade! How about that?

JERICHO: Let`s light the arcade on fire.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

JERICHO: Let`s do that.

BEHAR: OK, now, moving on to another story. Now, on Friday, I was on Oprah Winfrey`s show. "The View" was on Oprah Winfrey, and I wanted to show you a little bit of what went on there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: This is my CNN pass to get in because I have another show, my (inaudible) show, 10:00 every night.

OPRAH WINFREY: Which is doing very well, which was beating Larry King when Larry King was still on.

BEHAR: It was, thank you for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLD: OK, shameless promoter. I love that.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Now I know how Kathy Griffin does it.

HAMMER: Let me tell you something, as the host of "Showbiz Tonight," on at 5:00 p.m. Eastern and 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, I think it was a great opportunity, and you seized it.

(CROSSTALK)

GOLD: I loved it. I thought it was awesome. You go.

BEHAR: All right.

GOLD: You go, girl.

JERICHO: I even talk about that in "Undisputed," my new book that is available on Wednesday--

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: See how easy that is?

(CROSSTALK)

JERICHO: I`m giving copies of my book to everybody in the studio audience today, all three of you.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: I had fun there. She was great.

GOLD: Was she nice?

(CROSSTALK)

GOLD: Was that your first time meeting her?

BEHAR: No, I`d met her briefly, but this time, I thought she was really very sweet. I left my sassy nips in the green room.

GOLD: Right.

BEHAR: Do you know what sassy nips are?

HAMMER: No, I don`t--

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: You put them in the front of your brassiere, in the brassiere. Only people over 50 say brassiere. And it sort of covers, the, you know, the nips. Particularly when you have Picasso breasts, where one is lower than the other.

(CROSSTALK)

HAMMER: But now, Joy, here is my question, because --

BEHAR: Would you like to see them, A.J.?

HAMMER: No, no, no--

GOLD: I would.

BEHAR: I know you would.

(CROSSTALK)

HAMMER: -- some kind of dessert that my grandmother used to keep on the coffee table in a little glass.

(CROSSTALK)

HAMMER: Joy, let me ask you, because this is something we talked about on our show, they showed you guys without makeup. Are you now unhappy that you guys did that?

BEHAR: No, I don`t care.

HAMMER: Was Barbara unhappy? Because she seemed a little ticked off that she actually went through with that.

BEHAR: No, no, we were fine. Who cares?

GOLD: Joy doesn`t care.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Let me show them in every -- just not naked. That -- for that you have to be in my will. Are you in my will? No.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Sassy nips are -- OK, now today is Valentine`s Day. Happy Valentine`s Day.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: According to a survey on Yahoo, I believe it was on Yahoo -- right, was it on Yahoo? Yes. OK, Aniston and Depp were the No. 1 dates. Jennifer Aniston and Johnny Depp the No. 1 dates for anybody. The number - - the people who they did not want to go, the No. 1 that they would hate to go on a date with, Snooki --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Duh.

BEHAR: And females, No. 2, Paris Hilton. Doesn`t that strike you as odd that Paris Hilton would be such a negative?

HAMMER: No.

BEHAR: Why?

HAMMER: She`s polarizing. People don`t like her. People still don`t like her all these years later. They think she`s entitled, they think she`s a brat, even though she`s sort of been out of the limelight--

BEHAR: But it`s a date. They could have just had sex with her and leave her on the side of the road.

(LAUGHTER)

HAMMER: That`s true.

(CROSSTALK)

GOLD: Or in the Hilton parking lot.

BEHAR: No, I mean, and Snooki, what is the thing with Snooki? Why -- everyone--

(CROSSTALK)

JERICHO: The little known fact that Snooki is actually an oompa loompa. I mean, think about it. She`s orange, she`s short, she eats a lot of chocolate.

BEHAR: Yes. She`s an oompa loompa.

JERICHO: Yes, an oompa loompa, so oopies (ph) --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who would want to date an oompa loompa?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d put my name in the hat. Are you kidding me?

GOLD: I`m sure you could have a lot of fascinating conversations with Snooki. Yes, that will work.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: When they asked the women, on the women`s side, rather, the top nightmare date is Justin Bieber.

GOLD: Duh, because they would get arrested.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Exactly.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: OK, now, this one is for you. Lesbians.

GOLD: Oh, yes?

BEHAR: They take Angelina Jolie as No. 1--

(CROSSTALK)

HAMMER: As the worst date?

BEHAR: Number one they`d want to have a date with.

GOLD: Number one. First of all, all the lesbos love her. And I think because they think she`s half-lesbo, because she did, you know--

HAMMER: She`s talked about that.

GOLD: She has talked about having some activity there.

BEHAR: And she also kissed her brother.

(CROSSTALK)

GOLD: She did make out with her brother.

BEHAR: That doesn`t mean that she--

GOLD: She`s not my No. 1.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Who is your No. 1?

GOLD: Joy Behar.

BEHAR: Oh, that`s sweet.

(CROSSTALK)

HAMMER: Happy Valentine`s Day to the two of you.

BEHAR: You know what`s interesting? The guys thought that Angelina was the -- gay guys, in other words, thought she would be the No. 1 date. Is that just to get to Brad Pitt?

GOLD: But don`t straight guys--

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Is that real?

GOLD: Don`t straight guys love Angelina Jolie? Like, what do you want to--

JERICHO: I`m a straight guy, and I love Brad Pitt. Just -- I mean, talk about gorgeous, what a gorgeous guy. You don`t have to be gay to (inaudible)--

GOLD: Would you like to wrestle him?

JERICHO: In oil, absolutely. And you could throw Snooki in there as well.

HAMMER: How about Justin Bieber?

JERICHO: And the entire lineup of Arcade Fire as well. Put them in there too. Just for the heck of it. We could play with their Grammy.

BEHAR: So who is really -- who is your No. 1, tell me?

GOLD: My No. 1?

BEHAR: Yes.

HAMMER: Kim Kardashian.

GOLD: Elissa (ph), my girlfriend.

BEHAR: Oh, come off of it.

GOLD: Nauseating, right?

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: They also said the most romantic movie was "The Titanic."

GOLD: What is that? They drowned!

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: What is romantic about a boat hitting an iceberg and everybody dying?

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: I don`t get that, I don`t get that.

(CROSSTALK)

GOLD: How about "Love Story," or "The Way We Were," something like that.

JERICHO: (inaudible) "Love Story" too. The girl died in "Love Story."

GOLD: Whatever, but at least she didn`t die in a boat.

JERICHO: "The Way We Were," they died too--

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Thank you, guys, very much. Judy Gold in the 100th episode of Trutv`s "World`s Dumbest." (inaudible). Thursday at 9:00 p.m. Of course you can see A.J. Hammer on "Showbiz Tonight," immediately following this show. We`ll be right back. Happy Valentine`s Day.

GOLD: Happy Valentine`s Day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: President Obama is in trouble with both the left and the right today after unveiling his 2012 budget plan this morning. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When I was sworn in as president, I pledged to cut the deficit in half by the end of my first term. The budget I`m proposing today meets that pledge and puts us on a path to pay for what we spend by the middle of the decade. We do this in part by eliminating waste and cutting whatever spending we can do without.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: The plan would reduce the deficit by $1.1 trillion over the next decade.

Let`s talk about it with Robert Reich, former secretary of labor and the author of "Aftershock: The Next Economy and America`s Future."

Welcome to the show. So nice to see you.

ROBERT REICH, FORMER LABOR SECRETARY: Good evening, Joy.

BEHAR: OK.

REICH: Nice to see you too.

BEHAR: The budget slashed a lot of things that affect poor people, I think. College grants, heating assistance for people, community services. Did that actually have to happen?

REICH: I don`t think it has to happen, Joy. Part of the problem here is that the Republicans have framed the issue as you have got to cut the deficit right away. That`s the way to get jobs back.

Well, that`s just not true. The way to get jobs back is not cutting spending. In fact, it`s just the opposite. You get jobs back because you actually have more spending rather than less.

We do have to deal with the long-term budget deficit, five or 10 or 15 years from now, but right now, you have got to get the economy growing again and getting jobs back.

BEHAR: OK. But what about those nice tax cuts for multi-millionaires that just were put in place by Obama? I mean, couldn`t that have helped a little bit in lowering the deficit, like you said?

REICH: Well, absolutely. There`s no reason at all for providing big tax cuts, an extension of the Bush tax cuts for multi-millionaires. We have never -- you know, in this country, we have not seen this degree of concentrated income and wealth since 1928. So the whole notion that the very rich need more tax cuts is ludicrous. Nothing at all kind of trickles down to average working people. In fact, the median wage is down, housing is down, jobs are down. I mean, you`re not having a recovery for average people in this country. The only people that are doing well are people who have all their or a big portion of their savings in shares of stock, and the stock market is going up. But that`s only a very small portion of Americans who are benefiting from that.

BEHAR: But the Republicans give the argument that you have to have tax cuts for businesses to start to hire, for businesses to flourish. What is the counter-argument to that, and why do we keep having the same argument every day, every week, every month?

REICH: Well, we have been having the same argument, Joy, we`ve been having the same argument for years, and the facts are that the reason businesses invest in more capacity or in more hiring is when they have customers. They are not going to do it if they don`t think they`ll have customers. And right now, they don`t have many customers, unless they`re Nieman Marcus and they are catering to the very rich, because most average people are still under a huge debt load. They have to start saving for retirement or for college for their kids. They`re worried about paying the mortgage. They are worried about keeping their jobs.

So obviously, the only way to get the economy going again and get companies to be willing to expand capacity and hire more people is to put more money in the pockets of average working families.

BEHAR: OK, so, so far, we have tax cuts for the rich. We have spending cuts for the poor, against the poor. They took -- there`s nothing coming out of any of the entitlements or the defense budget, it looks like. So have they really made a dent in the deficit with all these cuts?

REICH: Not much of a dent in the deficit, even over the long term. I mean--

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: -- how many years? How many years are we talking about?

REICH: Well, we`re talking about 10 years.

BEHAR: Ten years.

REICH: That $1.1 trillion in the president`s budget is over 10 years. But this is like a kabuki dance every year. I mean, you have the president and you have Congress, they don`t want to touch entitlements. Nobody wants to be the first one to say, look, we`ve got to do something about Medicare. You remember the president almost had his head handed to him when in his health care bill, he said we`re going to control and limit the growth of Medicare spending. I mean, the Republicans were all over him.

So you know, nobody wants to alienate the elderly, particularly with regard to Medicare and Social Security. They`re a powerful group of voters. And so what you end up having is a budget that focuses on the poor and makes most of the real cuts that are going to hurt people, you know, among poor people, who now are very vulnerable anyway.

BEHAR: I find that morally reprehensible. And I`m surprised that they are doing such a thing. I`m surprised that Obama is going along with it. I mean, I have been his biggest fan, but this really bothers me, frankly.

REICH: Well, it bothers me, too, Joy. Now, you know, I find it morally questionable, reprehensible.

Let me just say that there are some good things in the Obama budget. I mean, he does limit the deductions that rich people can take. He does put some limits on other tax breaks for the very rich. He does want to stop the Bush tax break for the very wealthy.

You know, this Obama budget is not nearly as bad as what I expect to see in the Republican budget, but neither of them are really terrific budgets.

BEHAR: It doesn`t seem like the poor ever get really what they deserve to get in this country.

REICH: There`s no--

BEHAR: We worry about the rich and the middle class, but we really never worry about the poor.

REICH: There`s no national association of working people and no national association of poor people in Washington to lobby hard.

BEHAR: All right, I have got to take a break. We`ll continue this in just a minute. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: I`m back with former Labor Secretary Robert Reich.

Now, CPAC, the Conservative Political Action Conference, was held last week, and there was a lot of yelling. One heckler called Dick Cheney a war criminal. I mean, do you think that`s accurate?

REICH: I don`t think Dick Cheney merits quite the appellation of being a war criminal, although I`ll tell you something, quite honestly, I think Dick Cheney is going to have to be, hopefully at some point, at least historically, answerable for some of the things he did. I mean, I think going into Iraq when all of those -- that evidence was cooked, and we know it was cooked -- I mean, I think that`s a you know, that`s a pretty serious concern and a pretty serious charge.

BEHAR: When is that going to happen?

REICH: Particularly given all of the Americans and all the others who were killed as a result.

BEHAR: He should live so long for that to happen. It`s never going to happen. He`s just going to get away with it.

REICH: Well, it`s not, no, I agree with you. I don`t think it`s going to happen any time soon.

BEHAR: Yes. And Rumsfeld too, they yelled at him that he was a war criminal too. And you know, Rumsfeld, what do you think of him running around with his book this past week saying, look, stuff happens? You know, there were no WMD in Iraq, sorry. I mean, basically, that`s his attitude.

REICH: Well, that is his attitude. That`s been his attitude all along. I mean, as soon as we discovered that there were no weapons of mass destruction, he said, well, it`s too bad, mistakes happen. All of this business, you know, the stuff that he says, what is knowable, what is not knowable.

Well, we knew there were no weapons of mass destruction. I mean, a lot of people said that there were no weapons of mass destruction. A lot of people understood that that evidence was not there.

And look at the price that was paid. I mean, this is not Robert McNamara trying to white-wash Vietnam. This is, you know, this is an actual lie that was perpetrated by the United States government on Americans, and I think it`s a pretty serious charge, and it`s a pretty serious event.

BEHAR: When he`s pressured, Rumsfeld will say, well, the world is better off without Saddam Hussein. Well, that`s true of a lot of countries in this world. There are dictators all over, Africa, all over the place. We don`t go in --

REICH: And remember, Joy, remember, the Bush -- the George W. Bush administration said that they were not in the business of nation building. They were in the business of just protecting American interests. Now, exactly what American interests--

BEHAR: That`s a lie.

REICH: -- we protected, it`s not clear. You know, again, historians are going to have a field day trying to figure out whether this was George W. Bush working out something with his father, or whether it was, you know, Cheney and Rumsfeld and oil interests. I don`t -- you know--

BEHAR: Where is the oil?

REICH: It`s still unclear.

BEHAR: Where is the oil that was supposed to pay for this debacle, anyway? Did anybody ever find it?

REICH: Another good question.

BEHAR: Where is it?

REICH: The oil is still -- I mean, it`s supposedly -- it`s there. Kurdistan and the Kurdish part of Iraq still apparently have a lot of oil, but nobody has been able to make the exact determination of who gets what oil, and specifically what the United States gets back, if anything.

BEHAR: OK, thanks very much for sharing your thoughts with me. I really appreciate it.

REICH: Thanks, Joy.

BEHAR: OK. And thank you all for watching. Good night, everybody.

END