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Nancy Grace
Zahra`s Stepmother Charged With Her Murder
Aired February 21, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, North Carolina. A 10-year-old little girl snatched from her own bedroom in the dark of night. The little girl, Zahra, completely dependent on two hearing aides, only walks with a prosthetic leg after bone cancer, vanishes into thin air, bedroom empty, prosthetic gone, hearing aides left behind. Last person to see Zahra alive, stepmommy.
Zahra`s prosthetic leg found discarded in dense brush. A bone believed to be Zahra`s discovered. Police swarm the family home, ripping out bedroom walls. Stepmommy obsessed with pagan worship, vampires, the dark arts. Stepmommy changes her story, says she finds Zahra dead, that Zahra was sick for weeks. But she never took her to the doctor. We learn Zahra`s body parts, including her prosthetic leg, spread across the county, hidden in multiple locations.
In the last hour, a secret grand jury hands down a murder charge against real-life evil stepmother Elisa Baker.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Catawba County grand jury returned a true bill of indictment naming Elisa Annette Baker in the murder of Zahra Clare Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news in the Zahra Baker murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The grand jury deliberated, and their finding of second degree murder with aggravating factors was returned before Judge Robert Irvin (ph).
911 OPERATOR: So no one has seen your daughter since 2:30 this morning?
ADAM BAKER, FATHER: No. Like I said, we had all that drama last night.
EMILY DIETRICH, ZAHRA`S MOTHER: She was already gone when I found her!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant, Elisa Baker, had a history and pattern of physical, verbal and psychological abuse of the victim, Zahra Baker.
DIETRICH: Zahra, I`m so sorry that your stepmother (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "We really didn`t kill her."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will continue our investigation and follow every lead until the first day of trial.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight, live, North Carolina. A 10-year-old little girl snatched from her own bedroom in the dark of night. Last person to see Zahra alive, stepmommy. We learn Zahra`s body parts, including prosthetic leg, spread across the county, hidden. In the last hours, a secret grand jury hands down murder charges against a real-life evil stepmother Elisa Baker.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa Annette Baker did unlawfully, willfully and feloniously, with malice aforethought, kill and murder Zahra Clare Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Everyone wants me dead."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five aggravating factors, the history and pattern of physical, verbal and psychological abuse, desecrated the body, secreted the victim, Zahra Baker, from family and others. Zahra Baker was very young, physically infirm or handicapped, took advantage of a position of trust or confidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I ain`t the monster people are saying."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state has no credible evidence to suggest that anyone other than Elisa Baker was involved in the murder of Zahra Clare Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The indictment of second degree murder of Elisa Baker today is a milestone of holding someone accountable.
DIETRICH: Sickening (INAUDIBLE) what could have happened to her!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This little girl, a survivor, who survives cancer not once but twice, including bone and lung cancer -- we know now that she is not only dead but dismembered, her prosthetic leg found thrown away like it`s trash. And finally, a secret grand jury speaks and hands down a murder indictment against a real-life evil stepmother, Elisa Baker. What hell that stepmother put this little girl through before her death only God in heaven knows. Oh, and one other, Satan!
Straight out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." Jean, what do we know?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy, the grand jury returned an indictment not for first degree murder, for second degree murder, Nancy, in the death of little Zahra Baker.
GRACE: I don`t understand it. I thought in the presser I clearly heard them say "malice aforethought." Typically, that is first degree murder, is it not?
CASAREZ: Malice aforethought is first degree murder. In this case, they are saying that it was not by premeditated design but it was intent to kill. But Nancy, North Carolina has the death penalty. She will not be eligible for the death penalty, nor eligible for life in prison day for day, because second degree murder is 50 years or life in prison. But we were told today that normally, it`s about 30 years.
GRACE: You know, I`ve got the indictment. I`m not seeing cause of death.
CASAREZ: That`s because they don`t know cause of death. It is "violence by homicidal means." They don`t know what actually caused her death. Why? Because her body was dismembered. And when it was found, it was basically bones. And the majority of it, Nancy, they did not find.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Carol in Nebraska. Hi, Carol.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, Nancy, this just makes my heart ache. I don`t know what`s going on. These people are sick and...
GRACE: What is your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`d like to know why she got second degree murder and why didn`t she get first?
GRACE: I agree. I want to go to John Miller with "The Hickory Daily Record," the editor there, joining us out of Hickory, North Carolina. I don`t understand it.
JOHN MILLER, "HICKORY DAILY RECORD" (via telephone): Well, Nancy, I think one of the reasons is -- the autopsy report was released today, and the cause of death was "undetermined homicidal violence." And I think, as Jean said earlier, unless there is very specific proof of premeditation, then that might not be something that they might be able to get a conviction on, unless they had that very specific proof.
GRACE: John Miller, you know what? You and I have been covering this case since the very beginning.
MILLER: Yes.
GRACE: But let me tell you something, John Miller. I sat through an entire murder trial where all the state had was a glass eyeball. And the state got the death penalty. So you don`t have to have a body and a clear cause of death to seek the death penalty.
I want to go out to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Ellie, there`s so much evidence, including -- what was that game that the evil stepmother played on line about chainsaw massacre, where in her fantasy life, in her dreams, she carried out serial murders, gruesome serial murders? And isn`t it true, Ellie, that in the home, they found blood and tissue that suggested this child was dismembered in the home?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. And also, according to those search warrants, Elisa Baker made statements that the child was murdered or at least dismembered inside the home. She told investigators that if they`d check the drain traps, they might find tissue, bone, other evidence that she had been dismembered there in the house.
But back to your question about the on-line activities. Investigators subpoenaed records from an on-line Web site where Elisa Baker, Adam Baker, Zahra`s father, and other people associated with the family, including one of Elisa Baker`s ex-husbands -- who she actually told Zahra`s father was her brother -- they participated in this site where you create an avatar or an on-line personality. And this person who came forward said that Elisa Baker and Adam Baker and the ex-husband told her they`d created sort a virtual family and that their virtual family was committing chainsaw murders on line. So we know that investigators went after those on-line records. We don`t know exactly what they found.
GRACE: To C.W. Jensen, retired Portland police captain. C.W., are you telling me that with evidence like that, with blood and tissue in the home, with a history of abuse on this little girl, physical abuse -- Jensen, I can`t tell you how many calls to Department of Family and Children Services there were against this woman. Tons. Tons! I don`t know what DFACS was doing besides sitting on their thumb until the little girl was murdered!
But with a track record like that, with blood and tissue in the home, with their avatars on line, in her dreams, her fantasy was to commit murder, hacking chainsaw murders. They can`t get a murder one indictment on that?
C.W. JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: Well, I think it`s confusing for all of us. I`m sure that they have reasons why they don`t feel comfortable going for a capital type of crime. But it seems when you have those things that you`re talking about -- you have prior abuse -- you have these kinds of on-line fantasies and things like that -- to me, from the outside, as a homicide investigator, I`m saying to myself, This was not a sudden event. This was an event that took -- you know, started in her mind...
GRACE: Jensen! Jensen!
JENSEN: ... and then took place over a long period of time.
GRACE: Put Jensen on the screen!
JENSEN: Yes, ma`am?
GRACE: Put Jensen on the screen! Jensen...
JENSEN: Yes.
GRACE: ... they never found the little girl`s head. Her body, the skeleton remains that we do have, have tool marks on them. In other words, they used a saw or some type of an instrument to hack this child apart. And they can`t get a murder one indictment?
JENSEN: It`s hideous. I mean, this is absolutely hideous. And again, as an investigator, I don`t understand where they`re having the issue going through here. I mean, this was a brutal act, and then a brutal act after the homicide, tearing this little girl`s body up and then depositing it around the county. So you know, I don`t know if they`re just not experienced enough to go further, or there`s some sound statutory reasons why they can`t go forward.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Kimberly in California. Hi, Kimberly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I just want to say I love your show. I watch it every day.
GRACE: Thank you. And thank you for calling in, dear. What`s your question? I mean, are we going to get justice for Zahra? It doesn`t sound like it to me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It doesn`t sound like it to me, either. But my question is -- I have three kids of my own, and to me, it just seems like it`s so harsh, what she did to the little girl. I just want to know why would she violently kill a 10-year-old child. And she was with the father that she loves oh so much, so what was the problem? Was she jealous of the little girl?
GRACE: To Jean Casarez. Tell me what we know about the father. You know, he didn`t get indictments. It`s very hard for me to believe he didn`t know what was going on in that home with his own daughter.
CASAREZ: This is another really big issue. It was announced today that they don`t believe anyone else is involved in the murder of Zahra Baker. So what does that mean? Translation, that Adam Baker will not be charged with murder.
GRACE: Bombshell tonight. For those of you just joining us, a secret grand jury hands down murder charges in the case of little Zahra Baker -- you remember the little cancer survivor that could only walk with her prosthetic leg, that heard the world through hearing aides, that fought to live. Charges against a real-life evil stepmother handed down in the last hours, but it looks like now stepmommy won`t be behind bars for life.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Catawba County grand jury returned a true bill of indictment naming Elisa Annette Baker in the murder of Zahra Clare Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news right now out of North Carolina. The stepmother of Zahra Baker is charged with murdering the 10-year-old girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant named above, Elisa Annette Baker, did unlawfully, willfully and feloniously, with malice aforethought, kill and murder Zahra Clare Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Second degree murder charges were filed against Elisa Baker today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We concur with the decision made today by the Catawba County grand jury.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say that there was a pattern of physical or verbal abuse towards Zahra Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "He knows what happened to Zahra, and yet I`m the one in here, at least for now."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. For those of you just joining us, a secret grand jury hands down murder charges against a real-life evil stepmother in the murder of this little girl, Zahra Baker. After a massive manhunt, her remains found spread across multiple locations, including the little girl`s prosthetic leg. She had lost not only her leg but her hearing to her battle with cancer, a battle, I might add, that she won. This little girl had overcome so much, only to land in the hands of a real- life evil stepmother, a stepmother who now will never face her own death penalty or even life behind bars without parole.
We are taking your calls. But first, back to Jean Casarez. Give me a recap.
CASAREZ: Nancy, the grand jury returned an indictment today for second degree murder for Zahra Baker -- not first degree murder but second degree, which we believe is parole-able, can be life in prison, but you still are eligible for parole. But Adam Baker, the father that lived in that small little house day after day after day, has not been charged and authorities say will not be charged with murder.
GRACE: So bottom line, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, do no evil. That`s Adam Baker`s defense. Doesn`t anybody think that the responsibility was on him to take care of his little girl? And isn`t it true -- out to you, Ellie Jostad -- that in her medical reports, on the few bones that we do have that there are prior fractures, there`s prior abuse on this little girl?
JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, she did have some prior fractures, but what they believe those may have been from is -- remember the surgeries that she had when she was undergoing the cancer treatment. She had part of a lung removed. So they couldn`t tell if they were from those, or if they were from some other incident.
But we do know, Nancy, that she only visited a doctor one time -- and remember, this girl`s a cancer survivor -- only went to the doctor once, as far as we know, when she was in North Carolina.
GRACE: One time she goes to the lawyers -- excuse me, goes to the doctor during all this? Speaking of, unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight out of LA, attorney Gloria Allred, defense attorney Alex Sanchez, New York, defense attorney Remy Spencer, New York.
First to you, Gloria. Weigh in.
GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY: Well, I have a question, and that is, did Dad make any kind of deal? Did he get any kind of immunity? Is he the one that gave information about Zahra`s remains and where they could be found? We don`t know the answers to these questions yet, but it may shed some light later as to why he`s not being charged with anything. Or perhaps he had nothing to do with it.
GRACE: John Miller, editor, "Hickory Daily Record," what about it? Did he have an immunity deal?
MILLER: ... and from the information in the search warrants, it looks like most of the information about the case came directly from Elisa to her attorney. So it doesn`t look like he has an immunity deal at all, and most of the info came from Elisa.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The indictment of second degree murder on Elisa Baker today is a milestone of holding someone accountable.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police in Hickory, North Carolina, say they have an indictment to charge her stepmother who you`re looking at here, Elisa Baker, with second degree murder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa Baker has been charged with her murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa Annette Baker did unlawfully, willfully and feloniously, with malice aforethought, kill and murder Zahra Clare Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Many different theories of how and who is responsible for the death of Zahra have been made by anyone who has followed this case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A pattern of abuse, an allegation of a pattern of abuse.
DIETRICH: Your stepmom should have not made you walk up a hill!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a bruise under her eye.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I`m climbing the walls literally!"
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. For those of you just joining us, a grand jury hands down murder charges in the last hours against real-life evil stepmother Elisa Baker in the death and dismemberment of this little 10-year-old girl, Zahra Baker.
Unleash the lawyers -- Gloria Allred, Alex Sanchez, Remy Spencer. Weigh in, Alex Sanchez.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Nancy, I hate to be the bearer of bad legal news, but this case may end up collapsing for the very reasons that you said at the beginning of this program. You looked at the indictment, and you saw the same thing I did. And that was there was no -- there was no indication of how this child died. So isn`t it a contradiction to say "unknown homicidal violence," and at the same time charge somebody with murder? Isn`t that a contradiction?
GRACE: Put Sanchez up!
SANCHEZ: And that contradiction is going to come back to haunt them.
GRACE: Sanchez, you know what? I know you`ve won a lot of cases, but why would you disseminate such false theories of the law? Am I supposed to give somebody a gold star, an A-plus, a bonus, a raise and a promotion because they destroy the body? Are you suggesting that there was an accident or an illness and instead of taking the child to the doctor, they suddenly decide to dismember her and spread her body across two counties?
SANCHEZ: Listen, those...
GRACE: It`s very clear that the child was murdered. I don`t even know what you`re trying to say!
SANCHEZ: I don`t know why you`re saying it`s very clear. Those actions are very egregious, by the way, and I don`t support them on any level. But from a technical...
GRACE: Are you suggesting accident or illness?
SANCHEZ: No. From a technical point of view...
GRACE: Well, then what`s the alternative?
SANCHEZ: If you walk into a courtroom...
GRACE: No! You answer the question!
SANCHEZ: ... you have to bring proof.
GRACE: Answer the question, Alex!
SANCHEZ: And if you don`t bring proof, you don`t have a case.
GRACE: Can you answer?
SANCHEZ: What is the question?
GRACE: Or do you just want to keep spouting off? If it`s not accident and it`s not illness and it`s not suicide, then what are the alternatives as to death, Alex Sanchez?
SANCHEZ: Right, and that is the job of the prosecution to prove.
GRACE: No, I`m asking you!
SANCHEZ: Well, I have no idea, but it`s up to the prosecution to...
GRACE: OK, great.
SANCHEZ: ... walk into court with that evidence.
GRACE: What about it, Remy? What about it, Remy?
REMY SPENCER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We don`t know right now whether the grand jury decided to no bill on first degree murder. That may not have been the prosecutor`s decision at all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Baker did unlawfully, willfully and feloniously, with malice aforethought, kill and murder Zahra Clare Baker.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Catawba County, 911.
ADAM BAKER, FATHER OF 10-YEAR-OLD GIRL ZAHRA BAKER: Hey, how are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: I`m good.
BAKER: I need police.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Hickory Police, 911, where is your emergency?
BAKER: Yes, my daughter is missing.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: I`m sorry? Your daughter is missing?
BAKER: My daughter -- yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. What`s your address?
BAKER: 2121st Avenue Northwest. The police were out here last night over a fire and a ransom note for my boss` daughter. And I got up a little while ago and it appears that they took my daughter instead of my boss` daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: I`m not familiar with what happened last night. What happened last night?
BAKER: OK. Last night, we were woken up. My dog woke me up and I had a fire in the backyard and somebody had poured gas in my company vehicle that I drive for work. They left a ransom note on the company vehicle to my boss saying they had his daughter and his son was next and his daughter`s fine. His daughter came with him here last night when I called him, and it appears that they may have taken my daughter instead of his daughter.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: A secret grand jury hands down murder charges against stepmother Elisa Baker in the death of a 10-year-old little girl, a cancer survivor, a two-time cancer survivor, Zahra Baker.
We have covered her case from the get-go. When her disappearance seemed very unusual. And tonight that stepmother behind bars facing murder charges. Cops first find her prosthetic leg, the 10-year-old`s prosthetic leg, and then more of her remains found. Her skull, other parts of her body, never recovered.
And tonight, that murder charge is a second-degree murder charge. The real-life evil stepmother will never do life behind bars. Much less face the Carolina death penalty.
And another thing, Jean Casarez, I was just playing the 911 call. The father goes along with this lie to police about this fire in his backyard. And what about the mattress? Oh, I`m so surprised. Zahra`s mattress is in the dump? Well, he was there when it was removed.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": You know, Nancy, this --
GRACE: How could he say he didn`t know anything?
CASAREZ: This was a small house. They just moved in in September. Think about the searches they did in that home. The evidence they took out. The floorboards they took out. And Elisa herself said there`d be blood and tissue in the drains.
That mattress? Well, it was found at the landfill. He lived in that home.
But, Nancy, although authorities said that he will not be charged with murder, there`s another part to this crime. It`s dismemberment. If we look at their words, could there be further charges against Adam Baker, not murder but helping with dismemberment?
GRACE: Because -- Lillian Glass, Dr. Glass, psychologist, body language expert, joining us out of Orlando tonight.
Lillian, I find it very difficult to believe that this woman dismembered a body and got rid of it all by herself. And we also know blood and DNA found in the vehicle.
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT, AUTHOR OF "TOXIC PEOPLE": Yes, Nancy, I couldn`t agree with you more. And when you look at something like this, it`s very ritualistic. We`ve seen that -- we`ve heard reports that there`s -- there have been a report going on that there is a satanic kind of situation with her. That she was addicted to the number 666. That this was -- this had come out.
Also, the thing that disturbs me the most is about the father. If you listen to that 911 tape, you hear that monotone, that matter of fact tone. That is a red flag.
GRACE: To Dr. Stanton Kessler joining us tonight. Dr. Kessler joining us out of Columbia, South Carolina.
Doctor, explain to me what this undetermined homicidal violence means.
DR. STANTON KESSLER, M.D., FORMER MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, they don`t think there`s a cause of death. But in looking at the report, I see multiple cut marks, 11 cut marks on the femur alone, and blunt trauma at the end of the femur.
I would put this as stab -- multiple stab wounds and blunt trauma. And the dismemberment I think is a red herring. I think she`s been dismembered. But the medical examiner is not focusing on all these cut marks which is not dismemberment. I think she`s been stabbed.
There`s a stab in the clavicle, a stab in the neck, and the distal portion of the femur is a comminuted fracture. It`s crushed on itself. And I think this is how she died.
GRACE: Explain the fracture --
KESSLER: This is what`s going on here.
GRACE: Doctor, I`m just realizing -- I`m just drinking in what you`re saying for the first time. Do you mind repeating that again? About -- see, I assumed that these marks on the bones were from dismemberment. That`s why I`m just a JD, and you`re an MD.
KESSLER: Well, why wouldn`t they be --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Explain it to me.
KESSLER: Yes, Nancy, when you dismember somebody you cut them apart and the bones. You don`t have multiple stab marks throughout the bones. Like on her femur there are 11 marks, 11 cut marks, they said, approximately 11 cut marks in the femur. And the end the femur is crushed. It looks like they`re comminuted fractures like you drop a hard boiled egg and it fractures.
I think there`s blunt trauma here. And I think there`s stab marks. I think there`s a stab mark in the neck. And one in the clavicle. That`s where these marks are. She`s not dismembered there. It just happens the bones come apart when they`re scattered. Animals take them apart. So some of this probably was cut a few pieces and thrown out in different places.
But a lot of the animal scattering took place. And I think these cut marks are real. I strongly think that this ought to be reviewed by forensic anthropologist. I don`t know if Dr. Radisch, the pathologist that did this, is.
When I was chief of staff in Massachusetts for years, we used to send our stuff down to the Smithsonian. We sent Zahra prior down, we sent all our cases there. For somebody who is trained in doing just this to look at it. They can determine also if those crush marks on the leg occurred prior to death or after death.
This is forensics. And I think it needs to be looked at in much more detail than this brief little four-page report with very primitive drawing that I have here, which is the sum total of the medical examiner`s report.
It`s fine for a start. Unless they send it to someone who`s done hundreds of these cases, I think we`re missing the mark here. I think it needs to be looked at by somebody that knows more than the person that looked at this.
GRACE: With me out of Columbia, South Carolina, is a former medical examiner, forensic pathologist and professor at South Carolina Department of Pathology, Dr. Stanton Kessler.
And what you are telling me, Kessler, is that you believe in your experience that this child was stabbed to the bone repeatedly and bludgeoned to death?
KESSLER: Yes. From what I have here. I mean, why would her leg -- the only part of the femur is there. The bottom portion of the femur is crushed. Like somebody hit it with a brick or a heavy object or -- I don`t know what. But I don`t think it occurred postmortem. I think these occurred pre-mortem.
GRACE: Well, what about the --
KESSLER: And I think she was stabbed to death.
GRACE: Does that femur have anything to do with the amputation because she did have a prosthetic leg from the knee down?
KESSLER: Well, this is the other leg. So we`re talking about the other leg. We`re talking about the right leg. I think -- wasn`t it her left leg that was amputated? From the material I have here --
GRACE: Yes, you`re correct.
KESSLER: I think the left leg was removed.
GRACE: You`re correct, Doctor.
Jean, has the body been cremated?
CASAREZ: Nancy, I don`t believe so. I think it`s been in the custody of the medical examiner. And I know the work of Dr. Radisch, who is the medical examiner of Chapel Hill. The Michael Peterson case. She was the medical examiner to show all of those slash marks on the skull were intentional marks of Michael Peterson. She is an exceptional medical examiner and her work is exceptional also.
GRACE: OK, let`s talk this thing through with the lawyers. Gloria Allred, Alex Sanchez, Remi Spencer.
Gloria, if what Dr. Kessler is saying is correct, and now that he`s brought it to my attention -- I think he is -- I was assuming that the markings on the bones were tool markings, but now that I hear him explain it, the markings on the bone are not at the end of the bone where you would find the bone sawed, if you want to dismember the body. It`s along the bone that the existing bone.
What are you saying makes perfect sense. So what are the alternatives? If what Kessler -- Dr. Kessler is saying is correct, Gloria, can the remains be sent to another expert now that we know a cause of death, for re-indictment on first-degree murder?
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ATTORNEY, CHILD ADVOCATE: Well, I think we have to wait and see but, yes, definitely, they should be sent to another expert, Nancy. And in addition, we don`t yet have the toxicology results. And I think we need to have the toxicology results as well. But yes, a forensic expert is required.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra baker was very young, physically infirmed or handicapped.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We really didn`t kill her.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breaking news for you right now in the Zahra Baker case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But what he did after the fact is kind of horrifying.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa Annette Baker did unlawfully, willfully and feloniously, with malice aforethought, kill and murder Zahra Clare Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone wants me dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five aggravating factors. The history and pattern of physical, verbal and psychological abuse. Desecrated the body. (INAUDIBLE) to the victim. Zahra Baker from family and others. Zahra Baker was very young, physically infirmed or handicapped. Took advantage of a position of trust or confidence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I ain`t the monster people are saying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state has no credible evidence to suggest that anyone other than Elisa Baker was involved in the murder of Zahra Clare Baker.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The indictment of second-degree murder on Elisa Baker today is a milestone of holding someone accountable.
EMILY DIETRICH, ZAHRA BAKER`S MOTHER: Sickening, the thought of what could have happened to her.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: So no one has seen your daughter since 2:30 this morning?
BAKER: No, like I said, we had all that drama last night and me and my wife went back to bed and my daughter`s I think coming into puberty so she`s hitting that brooding stage, so we only see her when she comes out when she wants something and that`s about it.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: And did you say that she was handicapped?
BAKER: Yes, ma`am, she has above-the-knee amputation.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK, she has one leg --
BAKER: One leg, yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: That`s partially amputated?
BAKER: Yes, she has a prosthetic leg which apparently they`ve taken with her.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Prosthetic leg was taken with her?
BAKER: Yes, ma`am.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, an indictment has been handed down, a murder charge, against little Zahra`s stepmother.
To Jean Casarez, I`m just listening to that father, Adam Baker, who knows nothing about the mistreatment, the abuse or the murder? He is lying about that timeline. Police say she was murdered, didn`t they say, around September 24?
CASAREZ: Mm-hmm.
GRACE: He`s saying that`s not true.
CASAREZ: Right. He`s saying the last time he saw his daughter, oh, about Thursday night. And that was inconsistent with what Elisa Baker originally said. She said Friday night they went out to a fair together, a festival. And now the time of death they say is the date of the 24th of September.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Barbara in New York. Hi, Barbara.
BARBARA, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Hi, again, Nancy. Our earth angel. And hello to Jean.
I am so physically sick about this. The she-devil was premeditating for a long time this angel`s death. Physically and emotionally tormenting her. Making her walk long distances. And when she did not keep up, pulling her hair and screaming and yelling at her.
And, Adam, who does not deserve to be embraced as a father, how could he not be charged with at least child neglect? Whomever decided on second- degree murder should have nightmares every night of their life.
Thank you for taking my call.
GRACE: Barbara, again, I agree with you completely. Don`t blame the grand jury, though. The prosecution put up the evidence to the grand jury and directed them to this. Unless, in the rare event they no billed a murder-one charge. It`s extremely rare.
And, remember, a grand jury is not there to determine guilt or innocence. They are simply there as a charging tool. What is the correct charge based on the evidence the prosecutor has given them. I`m very, very disturbed by the charge.
But I want to go to you, Jean Casarez. Run through what we know about all the times Department of Family and Children Services was called on this family and they did nothing.
CASAREZ: Well, Department of Social Services, back in fall 2010, was called by many people as far as abuse from Elisa Baker towards Zahra. Let`s look at Adam Baker, though. Adam Baker told authorities, yes, I saw the black eye on little Zahra. I saw it myself. But Zahra said she fell and slipped in the bathroom and hit her head. And he thinks that Elisa made her say that.
GRACE: Now he decides that? Now he decides the daughter was covering up for the mom?
And to you, Ellie Jostad, speaking of the stepmother, this isn`t her only legal woes, right? How about a little bigamy charge?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Right. Well, it turns out that when she married Adam Baker in July of 2008 she was actually still married to a man allegedly named Aaron Young who she told Adam Baker was her brother.
So police have now charged her or prosecutors have charged her with bigamy. She has seven other marriages in her past. And it appears she may have been married to some of those men simultaneously as well.
GRACE: OK. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I`ve been looking at the flow chart. Looks to me like she could have been married to three guys at the same time.
JOSTAD: Right. Right. There are several marriages one after another. We couldn`t find any records for disillusion of marriage. But right now the charge refers to that Aaron Young-Adam Baker simultaneous marriage.
GRACE: How did he get hooked up with this woman to start with? I`m referring to Elisa Baker, aka, Dawn Michelle Church, aka Elisa Fairchild Allred, Elisa Young, Dawn Church, Elisa Procter, Elisa Harris, Elisa Fairchild, Elisa Putnam.
You know you`ve got problems when you`ve got about 10 alias, Ellie.
JOSTAD: Yes. Well, and you know some of those are former husband`s names to give her a little tiny bit of credit with those. But apparently they met online in one of these, you know, online avatar sites that we were talking about earlier. He --
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. You mean the avatar site where she and her husband and some third guy would play fantasy games about serial murder, death and dismemberment?
JOSTAD: Well, that`s a site called "I am VU" and that apparently happened with Adam Baker`s involvement. But I -- we don`t know if it was that site. We`ve been told there are reports that it was that same site where Elisa Baker and Adam Baker originally met. But we do know he`s living in Australia. She`s living in North Carolina. They apparently met online. She moved to Australia to be with him.
GRACE: So John Miller, what`s the greatest amount and the least amount of time the stepmother can do behind bars?
JOHN MILLER, EDITOR, HICKORY DAILY RECORD: We haven`t heard that number yet. We`re still trying to determine that.
GRACE: What about it, Jean?
CASAREZ: She can be sentenced to life in prison, but with second- degree murder, you are eligible for parole.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grand jury deliberated. And their finding of second-degree murder with aggravating factors was determined before Judge Robert Irvin.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Catawba County 911.
BAKER: Hey, how you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: I`m good.
BAKER: I need police.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Catawba County grand jury returned a true bill of indictment naming Elisa Annette Baker in the murder of Zahra Clare Baker. The grand jury deliberated. Their finding of second-degree murder with aggravating factors was determined before Judge Robert Irvin and subsequently filed with the county clerk of court.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Hickory police, 911. Where`s your emergency?
BAKER: My daughter`s missing.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: I`m sorry? Your daughter`s missing?
BAKER: My daughter -- yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. What`s your address?
BAKER: 21 21st Avenue Northwest. The police were out here last night over a fire, and a ransom note for my boss` daughter.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I mean, right there according to prosecutors Zahra was already dead for some time. At the time of this 911 call. So why is the father saying that?
Weigh in, Jean Casarez. You`ve got a good question for Dr. Kessler.
CASAREZ: You know, I do. I`ve been looking at this autopsy report and it does show all the cuts that Dr. Kessler is saying but it also says detailed description of those cuts can be found on the skeletal analysis.
My thought is that a novice tried to cut up that body and all the cut marks.
GRACE: Would that explain the cut marks, Doctor?
KESSLER: I don`t think so. They`re in areas they shouldn`t be.
Look, the clavicle has a cut in it. But the arm is there. The clavicle isn`t removed. The left clavicle has a cut in it. I think this was a frenzy. I think she stabbed and stabbed and stabbed.
I have a case just like this I`m working on now, an Alaska case, where multiple stab wounds.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Lance Sage, 26, Hempstead, New York, killed Iraq. Awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Iraq Campaign Medal. Wanted to enlist to serve country and to travel.
Loved the army. Restoring computers. Road trips. Dreamed of being a businessman since ninth grade when he would have "Wall Street Journal" delivered to his home. Only child. Leaves behind parents Calvin and Alice, his mom, his best friend.
Lance Sage, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you. And a special good night from California and Georgia friends, Donny, Gerri, Bailey, Sharon and Skylar.
Everyone, the Fourth Annual Dancing for Joan Benefit, February 26th, 7:00 p.m., Marietta, Georgia, raises funds to fight lung cancer. Go to dancingforjoan.org.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, our prayers for little Zahra Baker. Good night, friend.
END