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American Morning

Wisconsin Governor Threatens Jobs; Labor's Last Stand; Crisis in Libya; Armed Students, Safer Campus; Snowy Conditions for the Mid- Atlantic; Former NFL Player Commits Suicide and Donates Brain to Science

Aired February 22, 2011 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a live earthquake. You can see the floor is trembling and the -- and the rocks are falling down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Breaking news from New Zealand. A major earthquake hitting the same city that it hit six months ago, but with a much different outcome. This time, dozens are dead and the death toll is rising on this AMERICAN MORNING.

(on-camera): And good morning to you all on this Tuesday, February 22nd. Welcome to AMERICAN MORNING. I'm T.J. Holmes.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Kiran Chetry. Glad you're with us.

So, we start this morning with a desperate search for people who are probably still trapped under piles of rubble.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHETRY (voice-over): That was the scene in Christchurch, New Zealand after a deadly earthquake hit right around the lunch hour. At least, 65 people have been killed. And the pictures coming in from the scene show absolute devastation. Buildings crumbling down, and many people still trapped inside.

HOLMES: Yes, this was a 6.3 magnitude earthquake that hit. Now, the difference between this one and the one that hit several months ago is that this one hit in the middle of the day during the busy workday. Also, it was more so centered in the center of that town.

This is some amateur video we can show you now. And a giant bolder comes down on this hillside. That was a rock that some describe up there for an eternity. Many people got trapped in buildings, some did get out. Listen to them describe.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was coming, you know, and I was stuck in the door, and I was hit with the able, you know, the table in the restaurant. We had two or three people just falling on me. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was a very populated time with people at work, children at school. But we are aware of significant damage to buildings that had people in them at the time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we've got some folks up there we want to get out. But emergency crews are dealing with gas leaks and god knows what else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Still trying to determine exactly how many people might be trapped right now. Crews are desperately searching through all of that rubble. At least two strong aftershocks have made it difficult. And more of those aftershocks, as we know, could be coming.

CHETRY: And joining us now is David Coatree. He's the national operations manager in New Zealand's National Crisis Management in Christchurch this morning. Thanks so much for joining us. I know this is an unimaginably difficult time. In fact your prime minister called it perhaps New Zealand's darkest day. Update us right now on the search for those who may still be under the rubble.

DAVID COATREE, NATIONAL OPERATIONS MANAGER, NEW ZEALAND NATIONAL CRISIS MANAGEMENT: Yes, searching will continue all night. It is, of course, 1:00 in the morning New Zealand time now. So we go on nonstop. We are pumping in more resources and we will continue nonstop until we verify that we have done everything we possibly can to rescue people and get them out.

CHETRY: I know that right now it's all estimation as you're trying to, you know, sort through this emergency. But do you have any guesstimate of how many people you believe may still be trapped?

KOTCIAH: Oh, I don't think we can say that. Our teams are working systematically through the collapsed structures. They use specialized equipment to detect signs of life or sounds. Unfortunately, that is a slow process, as you can imagine. Once they do find signs of life, then they must determine the best way to reach that, taking safety precautions into mind.

So there may be heavy choring involved. So it's a whole process that these specialist teams work through systematically to see what, you know, to see recovery.

CHETRY: And David, what are your biggest priorities and, I guess, concerns as you try to continue this rescue operation?

KOTCIAH: You only have relatively small window, you know, to rescue people from these conditions. And therefore that is our absolute priority right now is to do everything we can to do that. We've deployed all the teams we have, capacities we have in New Zealand, and we have international teams on the way. Some have arrived earlier this evening, and some will be arriving tomorrow. So the quest continues.

On the side of that, of course, is the treatment of injured as another priority. We do have significant injuries where hospital services in Christchurch are coping with those. But we also are ready to triage people, and, in fact, we did do that in some cases.

And we are also are looking at ways to get people that do not need to be in Christchurch, especially tourists out of the area, and tomorrow morning or, well, this morning, we will start working on that, as well.

CHETRY: Yes, trying to get people out of the area because it's not safe right now to be wandering around there. David -- yes, I'm sorry. Thank you so much for giving us an update. We wish you luck and we will continue to check in on this as we follow this story today. Thanks so much.

HOLMES: Meanwhile, there was another strong earthquake caused $3 billion worth of damage in that same city back in September. They were still trying to recover fully from that. Our Rob Marciano in Atlanta for us. Rob, good morning. Once again, these two earthquakes were a lot different, and they had, certainly, different outcomes. There's a reason for that.

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Really three reasons why it's been so devastating. One, this one's closer to the city, two, it's more shallow, and that always causes more damage, and three, the time of day. It's all part of this ring of fire that includes the west coast of the United States when the Pacific plate kind of bumps into the Australian plate. This is a very active fault zone, if you will.

And you're right, back in September they had a 7.1 magnitude quake. It was deeper and farther away from the city. This is where this morning's quake was from, and the quake back in September was back about 30 or 40 miles further away from the city. So boom, when you get that close to a highly-populated area, you're going to have serious problems.

And then the aftershocks, there's been literally over 4,000 aftershocks since September of one magnitude or higher. And just in the last few hours we've had a handful of 4.5 and higher. This is the actual cathedral that came tumbling down. And that certainly gives you an idea just how populated this area is.

All right, this is cool. This shows you the quake back in September. And then we'll kind of fast forward a little bit and show you that all of the quakes that have happened just in the last -- since the main quake early this morning. And you can see how active this area is. It literally explodes. And this is from the Canterbury College. And this is just since the main quake that happened early this morning and late last night, so a very active area, and the after tremors or aftershocks are going to continue for the next several hours if not the next several days, and as we've seen with this shock can come up months down the road.

HOLMES: That's a good breakdown and gives us some good perspective, Rob. We appreciate it.

MARCIANO: You bet. CHETRY: We're also following the latest on the crisis in Libya. Moammar Gadhafi says that he's still in charge, but he actually may be losing his grip on power after four decades. Government officials are resigning in protest over the bloody crackdown on protesters. Libyan air force pilots, two of them defecting to Malta, refusing to fire on crowds.

And here you see video of Gadhafi going in front of Libyan state TV overnight shooting down rumors he fled the country to Venezuela. The leaders saying he's still in Tripoli.

Here are some of the latest developments this morning. In just a couple of hours the United Nations Security Council will hold an emergency meeting on the situation in Libya.

And Gadhafi's bloody crackdown continues. Witnesses report troops firing indiscriminately at protesters again today. CNN's Ben Wedeman says it is a different story away from the capital. He is reporting exclusively from inside Libya. Ben is the first and only western television reporter to enter and report from inside the country during this crisis, and he joins us live this morning. Ben, what is the latest?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what is clear is that despite what Colonel Gadhafi is saying that he is not in control this part of the country. We were in the city in eastern Libya and we saw that the local police station, the intelligence headquarters party headquarters had all been burned down, that they're demonstrations in the main square calling for the toppling of the Gadhafi regime.

The army in this area seems to have gone over to the side of the anti-Gadhafi forces. One thing we did hear that is interesting is the local people are saying they're going to try to cut the export of Libyan oil from the rest of the world. Much of Libya's oil is produced in the eastern part of the country, and of course, they say they will do this unless the regime stops these so-called massacres of anti-regime protesters in places like Tripoli and elsewhere. There is continuing concern here, in fact, that the air force will be used against this part of the country, as well.

CHETRY: Ben Wedeman for us reporting inside Libya. Amazing perspective that you've been able to bring us, thanks so much.

HOLMES: And that unrest we've been seeing in Libya and across North Africa and the Middle East starting to impact oil prices. The U.S. markets closed yesterday, but electronic trading sent crude surging more than six percent more than $60 -- excuse me more than $95 a barrel.

CNNMoney.com's Poppy Harlow "Minding your Business" this morning. And here we go.

POPPY HARLOW, CNNMONEY.COM: Yes, over $96 a barrel, folks, and get ready for it to go higher. Trading oil was closed in the U.S. This ALL happening across the globe and expect higher prices today. Why is this? Why more surge than what we saw in Egypt? The reason is Libya is a big oil exporter, 1.6 million a day is what they produce. Egypt didn't export oil. And Libya is the first nation in the Middle East to be engulfed in this turmoil that is a world producer of crude oil. They also sit on the single biggest oil reserve in Africa.

I want you to take a listen to a veteran oil trader about why Libya is so important to what you pay at the pump, air fare, all of it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE FITZPATRICK, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, KILDUFF REPORT'S ENERGY OVERVIEW: We'll look at the map. Now we have states that if they're not direct exporters of oil are stake holders in the international oil market and we have a whole series of countries that don't particularly like us. And that could be a problem of potential supply disruptions down the road which would wreak havoc on our economy, especially right now with the economy in a fragile state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And just to give you some perspective here, oil experts are telling me that $100 oil would have the same economic impact as $140 oil, which we saw in the middle of the crisis in 2008 and what it means for you at the pump.

In 2008, when we had $100 oil, your gas was $3.11 on average. Today we're not even at $100, and you're paying $3.17 on average. So that's the pain at the pump. It feels like $100 oil.

It's going to be a tough day on Wall Street. Take a look at Friday's numbers, Dow up 73. NASDAQ and S&P up. Also this morning, Dow futures lower by more than 100 points, a rough open ahead on Wall Street. Guys?

HOLMES: We do appreciate it. Good to have you with us this morning.

CHETRY: Thanks, Poppy.

HARLOW: That labor standoff you've been watching in Wisconsin, well, apparently they're running out of time, at least according to the governor who says if a deal isn't struck by Friday, he could have to cut 1,500 jobs. Can the union survive this?

CHETRY: The situation in Detroit getting very bad for the public schools there. A plan to rescue schools from a sea of red ink getting a green light from the state. What will it mean for teachers and students. You could be looking at class sizes in the 60s. We'll talk more about that coming up. It's 12 minutes past the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Fifteen minutes past the hour. We've been talking a lot about Wisconsin and the budget woes and how it could affect schools. Well, education officials in Michigan have now OK'd a plan that would call for drastic cuts in Detroit's public schools. It's an emergency restructuring that would wipe out the district's $327 million deficit by 2014. But it comes with a heavy price. Half of the city's public schools would close. Average high school class size would increase to 60 students per classroom. There would also be teacher layoffs, severe cuts to bus service, and obviously parents and administrators are not happy about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELA GOINES, MOTHER OF 2 DPS STUDENTS: It's a lot of agony in my heart because these babies are really not having a full opportunity and a fair education.

STEVE WASKO, DPS SPOKESPERSON: Clearly, those are not preferable educationally. It would not be a better DPS education. And that's why we're working day and night to find an alternative.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHETRY: Detroit's teachers union plans to protest those cuts today.

HOLMES: Well, a lot of cities are facing that same scenario. A lot of states, as well, facing some very painful cuts. And, of course,, you have seen it play out in Madison, Wisconsin. Teachers, though, expected to be back at work today and not protesting, maybe, as they have been in the numbers of thousands over the past four days. They are fighting what many consider a, quote, "union-killing budget plan by the governor." But the governor now is saying it's possible he'll have to cut up to 1,500 jobs if something isn't done soon.

Our Kate Bolduan live for us this morning in Madison, Wisconsin. Kate, good morning to you as always. And looks like, at least according to the governor, that the clock is now ticking.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the governor is really painting a pretty dire situation, T.J. Let me paint the picture for you right this morning.

It's early here in Madison as it is all across the country right now. There are still protesters sleeping in the capitol at this very moment. Those 14 state Democratic state senators, they're still hiding out out of state. And the governor, he's not budging. The governor, Scott Walker, yesterday said that the alternative to his budget repair bill is massive layoffs, potentially in the thousands, he said. A pretty dire situation. Listen here a little bit from him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: As I've said before, I don't want to lay anybody off. The equivalent at the state level for the next budget would be 5,000 to 6,000 state government employees being laid off and 5,000 to 6,000 local government employees. That's teachers and city workers and county workers, and others out there. In this economy, even though our unemployment rate is better than the national average, it's still 7.5 percent. That's unacceptable to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLDUAN: Protesters and opponents to this bill, they're really having nothing of it. They say, T.J., that the governor's wrong and there are other alternatives. Union leaders that I've spoken to, they say that they will, their members will accept some concessions in terms of contributing more to their health care and their pensions. But it is still a no-go when it comes to limiting their collective bargaining rights. And ratcheting up the pressure even more now, Scott Walker's administration state officials here say portions of this budget repair bill must be approved by Friday in order for the state to be able to refinance state bonds, a very critical part of trying to take on their budget deficit, their budget shortfall.

In terms of what's going on today, a few changes. The state Senate and the state assembly, they are scheduled to be back in session here. The state Senate, though, all eyes on that as they still could not have a vote yet as they don't have enough voting members in town to take up this measure. And teachers were told are being told now to go back to the classroom after several days out of many of them, several days out of class closing down many schools -- T.J..

HOLMES: Yes, and, Kate, a part of the story has been the past several days, those teachers out of the classrooms. Many of them called in sick.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

HOLMES: And we saw video, Kate, of doctors out there at the protest literally with full pads that were full of these doctor's notes just writing notes to the protesters. Now a lot of people said, oh, isn't that nice they're supporting the protesters, but you know what, Kate, could this now come with some consequences?

BOLDUAN: It's a very good question. And I will tell you that the University of Wisconsin health systems, big health systems here -- hospital system here, they say that they're now investigating that as they think several of the doctors are part of their health system. They say that these reports that they're seeing, the video that they're seeing, they're taking them very seriously and they're looking into the potential if they violated any hospital policies. But there are reports these doctors say that they really haven't done anything wrong. They say that they've often write sick notes for people who are suffering from stress -- T.J.

HOLMES: Yes, another aside in this big budget battle. Kate Bolduan keeping an eye on things for us in Madison today.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

HOLMES: We'll talk to you again soon. Good to see you. Thanks so much.

BOLDUAN: All right.

CHETRY: And 20 minutes past the hour. Still to come this morning, a harrowing rescue in Oregon. A snowboarder saved from the side of a mountain. We'll tell you how he survived as he waited for that rescue.

Plus another round of snow, sleet, freezing rain. All that headed into the mid-Atlantic. We're going to tell you where you might run into some travel trouble. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Well, it's 23 minutes past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.

Two Iranian warships passing through the Suez Canal. This is a first at least since 1979. They're on their way to the Mediterranean, reportedly headed to Syria for a training mission. The Egyptian military OK'd this entry for a fee of $290,000. Israel, though, sees this as a provocation. Iranian warship is armed with torpedoes and missiles.

Meanwhile, the hijacked yacht with four Americans on it, well, it is now nearing the Somali coast. Could arrive there in less than two days. It is being followed reportedly by U.S. Naval warship. Pirates believed to be on board the yacht with the Americans.

CHETRY: Well, is the answer to preventing campus shootings letting students carry guns? It looks like Texas may be passing a bill that would allow college students to carry guns on campus. More than half the members of the Texas House have signed on as co-authors of the measure. Now the issue of gun control and the Second Amendment is always an emotional one. And coming up at 7:40, we're going to be debating whether this is the answer with two Texas state lawmakers. One who is for it and one who is against it.

HOLMES: And take a look at a rescue we want to show you from Mt. Hood in Oregon. A snowboarder had to be plucked from the side of that mountain by a Black Hawk helicopter. Oregon Army National Guard came to the rescue yesterday afternoon when a snowboarder had gotten caught up in a blizzard -- blizzard-like conditions, I should say. That was the day before. And he talked about how he made it through the night that got down to 16 degrees.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JULIAN ACREE, RESCUED SNOWBOARDER: About 4:00 last night, it was getting dark, so I kind of just kind of set up shop. Got some pine needles down and just kind of did the fetal position thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Pine needles? Fetal position? Maybe that works. He did have a cell phone with him. He was able to get a call out to a friend to say he was lost.

CHETRY: That is the saving grace that he had that cell phone and was able to get service.

HOLMES: Cell phone.

CHETRY: Because sometimes they have the phone and the battery dies or they have no service. Amazing.

Still to come, labor in crisis in America. States moving to eliminate the rights of collective bargaining. Carol Costello joins us with more on whether or not this is the union's last stand.

HOLMES: Also, the scramble continues this morning to find more survivors after a powerful earthquake in New Zealand. We'll have the very latest for you on this AMERICAN MORNING.

It's 25 minutes past the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kill the bill! Kill the bill! Kill the bill! Kill the bill!

CHETRY: Protests continue in Wisconsin and in other parts of the country. So many states in crisis. And leaders are trying to trim millions in deficits. We could be witnessing, though, some say labor's last stand in America. Two states are now trying to pass budgets that even the president remarked seemed like an assault on unions.

Carol Costello is live in Washington where unions have been going toe- to-toe with corporate America for decades, competing interests in some cases. Who might come out on top of this one?

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I guess I'd use a cliche on that one, Kiran. Time will tell. This is shaping up to be a "Battle Royale," not only in Wisconsin but in Ohio too. Union leaders even though it's from the private sector are urging solidarity. And they're doing that for a reason. They feel this is the final fight and they can't afford to wave the white flag.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO (voice-over): What's happening in Wisconsin, and now in Ohio is not new. It's the culmination of a decade's long fight between organized labor and management. And if you ask pro-union folks --

KAREN KAMINSKY, WISCONSIN TEACHER: I want my children to support union labor so their children can have a future too.

COSTELLO: Corporate America is about to win big time. Mary Kay Henry is the president of the Service Employees International Union.

MARY KAY HENRY, SERVICE EMPLOYEES INTERNATIONAL UNION: There's been a coordinated campaign for the last 30 years to undermine the American middle class by weakening the power of workers to be able to collectively bargain to raise their wages.

COSTELLO: Henry says corporate America save themselves money in wages by lining the pockets of Republicans running for statewide offices. According to followthemoney.org, in the 2009/2010 election cycle, business interest donated $878 million to candidates running for governor and other statewide offices across the country, that includes hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations for Governor Scott Walker of Wisconsin and John Kasich of Ohio. Organized labor groups donated far less to state candidates, $225 million. But Republicans argue it's the voters, not the campaign dollars who have spoken.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At least there's a few teachers out there who have the guts to stand up against you union thugs!

COSTELLO: Many Republican lawmakers say one of the biggest threats to our economy is not a lack of corporate regulations, but unions out of control.

SHANNON JONES (R), OHIO STATE SENATE: We've got a projected $8 plus billion budget deficit we have to deal with. And we're not like Washington. We just can't print more money and pawn it off on our children. We've got to balance these budgets.

COSTELLO: That's why Senator Jones is introducing Ohio's bill. A bill that would essentially gut collective bargaining rights for state workers.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And Democrats say there is another reason republicans want to gut unions. Organized labor donates hundreds of millions of dollars to candidates like Barack Obama. So if you weaken the unions, you weaken a traditional moneyed supporter of the Democratic Party. And as you said, Kiran, as you guys have been saying, things will come to a head in Wisconsin today with the governor now saying that, you know, if the people don't come back to the table, if the Democrats don't come back to the state House, then he's going to have to lay off all of those state workers, 1,500 teachers, maybe.

CHETRY: Yes, it is going to get ugly again today. And we'll continue to follow that.

Thanks so much for joining us this morning, Carol. Appreciate it.

COSTELLO: Sure.

HOLMES: Keeping a close eye, of course, on the developments we're getting out of Libya, the crisis there. New this morning, the Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi says he is still in charge and he is still in Tripoli. He did go on state television last night to kind of quaff some of those rumors that he had fled the country.

CHETRY: And reports of security forces firing on anyone who moves in the streets of Tripoli and government officials quitting. So on one side, you have, you know, troops moving in, and on the other side, some of them refusing actually to fire on the protesters.

CNN national security contributor Fran Townsend has been to Libya twice recently and had the chance to actually talk to Saif, who is Gadhafi's son. And she joins us again. Thanks so much for being with us.

FRANCES FRAGOS TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CONTRIBUTOR: Sure. CHETRY: What, I guess, breaking points are you looking for as we talk about the continuing protests in Libya and the continuing crackdown by this regime?

TOWNSEND: Well, the real focus now - we've heard from Ben Wedeman about the eastern part of Libya where the opposition seems to be in control. The focus for us now is really on Tripoli. What will happen there? It's the greatest concentration of government officials, government forces, and can the protesters frankly survive the sustained violence being visited upon them?

The second point to watch today and this week is, will the military remain behind the regime? Will they continue to support and protect the Gadhafi family? Or will the two pilots who fled to Malta and claimed asylum, are they part of a new wave? And if that military support crumbles, the regime cannot sustain itself without them.

HOLMES: We talked about how much influence or little influence the U.S. had in Egypt. Maybe a smidgen of influence there with the relationship with Hosni Mubarak. Do we have any influence on what's happening in Libya right now? Connection to those government officials, the military at all? Do we have to sit back in the U.S. and just watch this play out?

TOWNSEND: The U.S. government, T.J., has very little influence. Frankly our allies in the U.K. and Italy have far greater both historical and current influence. Large European companies do business there -

CHETRY: Right.

TOWNSEND: Government officials have had more sustained relationships there. And so we really have to work with our European allies to influence the Gadhafi government.

CHETRY: I want to show some live pictures right now. This is out of Bahrain Manama where they were talking about 30,000 protesters taking to the streets. These are live pictures right now. Some are calling this the largest anti-government protest as well. You mentioned Bahrain, talking about some of the differences in these protests around the varying Mideast countries. Bahrain still enjoys - the leaders still enjoy the support of the military at this point. And might that change as this increased pressure continues to mount?

TOWNSEND: You know, it's interesting, Kiran. I don't think that will change in Manama. Bahrain is a critical strategic ally of the United States. And T.J., you asked about influence. We have tremendous influence there. Remember, the Fifth Fleet is stationed there. This is also very different. This is a much more sectarian sort of conflict. The population is largely Shiite. The ruling family is Sunni. That has been true. The Shiite population has been fighting for representational rights.

CHETRY: Bahrain's government did agree to.

TOWNSEND: That's right. CHETRY: After these protests.

TOWNSEND: And there'd been elections there in 2005. And so the Bahrain government and ruling family has shown a willingness to extend sort of democratic freedoms over time. So I think there's a basis for dialogue between the ruling family and the people there in Bahrain. And they enjoy the military support and they're a strategic U.S. ally. So I think we're less likely to see sustained true conflict in Bahrain.

HOLMES: Yes, so many of these things look similar in these countries, but they are very much different in a lot of ways. Fran Townsend, so good to have you with us this morning.

TOWNSEND: Thank you.

HOLMES: Thank you so much.

TOWNSEND: Thanks.

HOLMES: Still to come this morning, it is a football tragedy that could have now some good consequences as far as brain injuries go. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta explains this one to us. He's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Welcome back to "American Morning." 37 minutes past the hour right now. A new front opening in the gun debate. A new bill in Texas will give college students and professors the right to carry guns on campus. Supporters say they want it to prevent another Virginia Tech shooting where they say unarmed students were essentially sitting ducks.

But the bill is facing strong opposition. Many saying it will do nothing but create a more dangerous environment.

Joining us to debate this now is Republican State Senator Jeff Wentworth, who sponsored the legislation in the State Senate and Democrat state Representative Eddie Rodriguez, who is working against the bill in the House.

Thanks so much for joining us this morning, both of you.

SEN. JEFF WENTWORTH (R), TEXAS: You bet.

REP. EDDIE RODRIGUEZ (D), TEXAS: Thank you.

CHETRY: I want to start with you, Senator Wentworth. Why would it be helpful for these concealed weapons to be allowed to be carried on all college campuses throughout the state?

WENTWORTH: Well, in self-defense. As you pointed out at Virginia Tech, we had a deranged person who was suicidal who decided he would like to take as many people with him as he could and went into what is considered a gun-free zone, which I consider a victim zone and picked off innocent kids sitting in their classrooms with nobody able to defend themselves.

CHETRY: The interesting thing is, under the current Texas law, colleges and universities are actually allowed to decide for themselves whether or not they can have concealed weapons on their campus. And when we did the research yesterday, we didn't find a single college or university in the state that actually wanted to do this. So why push it?

WENTWORTH: Well, I believe we ought to have a statewide policy. I'm not sure that any Board of Regents has seriously considered that, any time in the last 15 or 20 years. It's time for the legislature to act. In fact, the Texas Senate passed this bill in 2009, had the votes to pass it in the House of Representatives, had we not run out of time at the end of the session. But we have more support, actually, in the House this time and I'm pretty sure the bill will be passed and be signed by the governor in about another month or so.

CHETRY: And Representative Rodriguez, we know that you're fighting against this. Supporters are arguing that kids in these cases are sitting ducks. You know, if a gunman's coming on to campus, they're already breaking the rules, you know and that by not allowing people to be armed, that they actually are defenseless against a potential attack.

RODRIGUEZ: Well, first let me say that I'm for the second amendment. I've never stated otherwise. I support a person's right to carry a firearm. And so that really isn't the issue for me. The issue for me more than anything else is local control. As you stated just a minute ago, colleges and universities can have guns on campus or allow it to happen and they haven't done it. And I think we need to let them create a safe learning environment for students. And I think that's really what we as the legislature should be doing is allowing the local colleges, universities, to decide what they want to do.

CHETRY: But aside from local control, do you think it's dangerous? Do you think that you're introducing more potential violence by allowing for concealed weapons on to college campuses?

RODRIGUEZ: Well, let me say that I haven't heard from professors, deans, or presidents of colleges. I haven't heard from law enforcement that they want this. In fact, I've heard from some law enforcement that they're worried this could actually create a more dangerous, unpredictable environment.

CHETRY: And I want to ask you again, Senator Wentworth. After the Virginia Tech shootings, they had a state-appointed panel in Virginia look into this notion should they have more security on campus, should they allow for handguns? And actually one of the recommendations was that they should ban guns from campus grounds and buildings. And they lived through what you're arguing, which is that they were defenseless. They don't believe that it made the situation any safer. What do you think about that?

WENTWORTH: I think that's an ill-advised recommendation. I can't imagine that they would think that would make it safer. How are you safe if you're sitting in the classroom unarmed and some mentally deranged person comes in and starts shooting people? I want somebody who is licensed and who has been through a 10-hour course, who is qualified on a firing range, who has had to pass a criminal background check and had his fingerprints taken and paid a fee of over $100.

People don't lightly go through that. In addition, in Texas, you have to be at least 21 years of age to get a license. So we're not talking about the traditional freshmen, sophomores, or juniors, who are 17, 18, 19, 20 years old, they're not eligible for a license.

CHETRY: What about the notion that you should just have more security officers on these campuses as opposed to, you know, allowing or requiring concealed weapons for just students over 21?

WENTWORTH: Well, as I've said many times before, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away. We cannot afford to have a security officer in every classroom every day. That's just impractical. So that's - that's not a solution. What we need to do is allow people that are trained, who are licensed - we've got over 25 million people who live in Texas. And less than two percent of them have these licenses.

So we're not going to be overrun on campuses by a bunch of kids carrying weapons, which is one of the arguments the opposition uses. That's just not going to happen.

CHETRY: And Representative Rodriguez, Texas enacted their concealed handgun law back in 1995 and there were concerns that perhaps there'd be more murders or accidental deaths. When we crunch the numbers, it looked like crime rates and murder rates actually dropped in Texas since 1995, so what in your mind makes the university environment different?

RODRIGUEZ: Well, I think it is - it is innately different. I mean, you have younger people. As the senator mentioned, I mean, we're looking at people that are 21 years of age, although there is some talk of legislation to drop that age, not necessarily the legislation that the senator has. But I've heard that there might be legislation to drop that age to 18.

But we really - our job in the legislature is to create a safe learning environment. And that's really what this is all about. You mentioned also some more - more money for security. And actually, we need to talk about mental health, as well. The Virginia Tech incident situation was somebody that had serious mental health problems. Had done some screening for that. I think we need to really invest more in preventing something like this - something like Virginia Tech from happening. And not really allowing - and I'm not saying we're going to have classrooms overrun with guns.

I don't think that's necessarily the case. I think you might have a situation, however, where you have one or two people in the classroom in addition to somebody who is deranged who comes in the classroom. And I think the situation that I've heard from law enforcement is that they're concerned that something might happen. And that law enforcement's going to have a difficult time determining what's really going to be going on. And the senator also mentioned if you'll allow me, that there's 10 hours of training for concealed handgun licenses.

And I think that's fine. Law enforcement on the other hand can get up to 40 hours of training a year. They're more equipped and more prepared to deal with a situation like this. And I think we need to be going that route. I think that also, if you look at the University of Texas, they have come up with a warning system for their students and in reaction to something that happened to September of last year. A gunman on campus, thank god nothing tragic happened. But I think we need to look at those kinds of things and preventing that kind of violence from happening.

CHETRY: Well, we'll see how this plays out. But as State Senator Wentworth said, it looks like the votes are there for this to pass. And so we'll see what happens. We'll follow it. Representative Rodriguez, State Senator Wentworth, thanks to both of you for your points of view this morning. We appreciate it.

WENTWORTH: You bet.

RODRIGUEZ: Thank you.

HOLMES: Well, next on this "American Morning," it was a shocking suicide. Of a former NFL player. But now his death is giving doctors a gift that could save lives. The story ahead with our Sanjay Gupta.

Also the Mid-Atlantic waking up to icy and snowy conditions this morning. Our Rob Marciano will join us in a few minutes, as well.

It's a quarter of the top of the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.

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CHETRY: Forty-eight minutes past the hour. Time to get a check of the weather headlines this morning.

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HOLMES: About eight minutes to the top of the hour now. Time for an AM House Call. The football world is shocked by the suicide of former all-pro safety Dave Duerson. He was --

CHETRY: Yes, Duerson --

HOLMES: -- 50-years-old here. A lot of people may remember him from the championship Bears team in the mid-'80s. Now he was apparently developing, or at least he was concerned on his own that he was developing a degenerative brain disease.

CHETRY: Yes, this is so sad. And apparently he was so concerned that he asked that his brain be donated for research on head trauma and his family is now fulfilling that wish.

Earlier this morning, chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta had a chance to speak with his son and former NFL teammate. Sanjay joins us know from Atlanta.

I mean, this whole situation has got to be devastating. But also, these people that were close to him want to fulfill his wishes.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And keep in mind that no one was really talking about this issue, this idea that football and the game and the repeated blows to the head could cause what some are referring to early onset dementia, early onset Alzheimer's.

I've seen some of this firsthand, gone to these labs where they're examining brains of people who are young but who played the sport, and their concern is the brains really paid the price. He knew about this and was concerned about this. He talked to lots of players in this position on the NFL board, as well.

What's so striking is how he decided -- and the text messages that he left for his son and his wife to do all this. I just want you to take a quick listen. This is a little bit hard to fathom, but take a quick listen to what happened here.

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TREGG DUERSON, SON OF DAVE DUERSON: The police showed up at my door around 1:30 and I let them in and they told me my father died.

GUPTA: Dan, I'm so sorry to hear that and I know it's difficult to talk about. You talked about the fact that, you know, there were text messages. I mean, were you surprised? I mean, it's always a shock, but was there some indication to you that this could happen?

DUERSON: There was a text message the night before that was a bizarre text message that he sent to my mother saying that he loved her and he loved my family and that to please get his brain to the NFL brain bank. My mother called me at work. We talked about it and it was bizarre text. You can't make sense of it.

So we were trying to reach out to him, try to get in contact with him. No one could get in contact with him. And then, you know, when I'm getting up at 1:30 in the morning and I'm letting the police in, you know, the first thing on my mind is I think they're about to tell me my father died.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUPTA: Again, so hard to hear. This is so raw for Tregg, that's his son that you were just hearing special. Otis, his teammate, standing next to him.

He shot himself in the chest, Mr. Duerson did. He shot himself in the chest. And part of the thinking was -- and you heard from those text messages that he wanted to preserve his brain to be examined for science because he was so worried, potentially, that he was developing this chronic, traumatic encephalopathy. The name doesn't matter but the concern is that due to repeated blows to the head from football cause this sort of problem. HOLMES: Right. Sanjay, this is certainly tragic but, you know, this is something the NFL has been taking a closer look at and who knows how much this could help down the road. But still, a tragic story for this man.

Sanjay, we appreciate you. We're going to be hearing more from you, certainly on this. Thank you so much.

GUPTA: You got it.

HOLMES: And we're also going to be talking about this in about 40 minutes with the chairman of the Department of Neurosurgery at Cedars- Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles. He'll be with us this morning.

A quick break on this AMERICAN MORNING. We're right back.

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