Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Gadhafi Fights Back; White House Considers Severing Ties with Libya; Could Airfares Double by Summer?; Top Jobs For The Future; Gadhafi Strikes Back
Aired March 02, 2011 - 07:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: It could be Gadhafi's last stand. The embattled Libyan dictator launching air strikes on two towns held by rebels and trying to seize back control of the country on this AMERICAN MORNING.
Good Wednesday morning. It is March 2nd. I'm Ali Velshi.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Kiran Chetry. Glad you're with us.
We're following these developments in Libya, where Moammar Gadhafi launched an air assault on his own people in a desperate attempt to take back control. Witnesses tell us in the last few hours, bombs started falling on two towns held by anti-government forces in the eastern part of Libya -- Al Brega and also Ajdabiya, home to a huge oil refinery.
Our Ivan Watson joins us this morning from Tunisia, right along Libya's western border.
As we know, and we showed some of these live pictures of Gadhafi speaking a short time ago, and it's interesting because what he said was he had no control, he had no real control. He was not really in power. It was the people's power. Yet, at the same time, we're hearing of these bombings.
IVAN WATSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And he was also talking an awful lot, a mantra that he has repeated, Kiran, about the threat of foreigners, about the threat of al Qaeda.
Now, we're to the west of Libya in Tunisia and you may be able to see -- I don't know if we can catch it in time, the refugees that have been escaping from Libya, rather than people coming in that are allegedly trying to destabilize his regime. There are tens of thousands of refugees who have been fleeing Libya, fleeing and many of them are telling us, Kiran, that Gadhafi's forces are robbing them as they try to go to the Tunisian border to flee for safety.
They are loading here on Tunisia, a navy ship, one of several that have come to evacuate some of the tens of thousands of Egyptian migrant workers who are fleeing in what is being described as a humanitarian crisis.
And many of them, Kiran -- these are not wealthy men. They are poor men who've gone to Libya to work because they can find jobs as construction or steel workers there or hairdressers.
They say that on their way out, Libyan soldiers and police robbed them of their cell phones and robbed them of any kind of storage devices, CD roms. And we have people that are tired and exhausted after days of dangerous travel. And some of them tell us the Libyan soldiers are even stealing what few earning they have managed to make during the time in Libya, stealing that from them as they come to Tunisia and then sleeping in the streets for days, waiting to be evacuated on vessels like this Egyptian navy ship -- Kiran.
CHETRY: What a sad situation that you're highlighting for us. Ivan Watson on border again with Tunisia and Libya -- thank you so much.
As I know, as we've been reporting, there are efforts to get some international aid there and we are hearing about France, and we know we have two of our ships going there as well to the area to help with this humanitarian crisis that's unfolding on the border.
VELSHI: There's a real complication because, normally, when there is a humanitarian crisis and there's a request for aid, the governments of the world like the U.S. government will be dealing with a government. But this is tricky in Libya because the Obama administration right now is considering cutting all diplomatic ties with Libya this morning.
Ed Henry joins us live from the White House.
Ed, this is complicated because even some Libyan missions around the world have broken with the Libyan administration. So, it's very unclear who the U.S. relations are with anyway right now. What's going on?
ED HENRY, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, absolutely, Ali. And it is risky for the U.S. in some ways as well because even during this crisis, U.S. officials have had some contact and communication with the Libyan government. That's been very important because while the Libyan government maybe is not listening, obviously, in terms of stopping the violence, it has been important to have that channel of communication in order to get Americans out safely out of Tripoli, for example.
The reason why the U.S. now is considering cutting off all diplomatic ties -- remember, we've already essentially shut down at least temporarily the U.S. embassy there in Libya, is because this could put more pressure on Moammar Gadhafi. Now, some people may roll their eyes and say, well, why would he care? Actually, it matters because it was a big deal for Gadhafi a few years ago when the George W. Bush administration recognized his government again, gave him some legitimacy on the international stage.
And from our own State Department correspondent, Jill Dougherty, we are picking up that the State Department, in private, they are seriously and actively considering the possibility of now cutting off all diplomatic ties to say, look, this is a rogue nation again, pretty much what the president and secretary of state have said publicly, but make it official and try to put pressure on Gadhafi.
Now, it may not matter in the end, but I think this shows that the U.S. is trying anything and everything to get Gadhafi's attention, because so far, the various leverage they have pushed, sanctions and whatnot, have not cut off the violence. The only other options may be military action and, in fact, that's very tricky. It's very difficult. It's not clear-cut. It would take a lot of work bringing allies along.
And so, the bottom line is they are trying anything and everything right now, Ali.
CHETRY: The other quick question is -- if the rebels who are considering asking for this help with enforcing a no-fly zone, I mean, would the United States be on board with that?
HENRY: Well, they are considering that as well. But that is treacherous for a number of reasons. I mean, number one: the U.S. is probably not going to unilaterally arm the rebels. They would want to bring allies along. And there are going to be some allies that may be skittish about arming the rebels. So, that's one challenge.
But, secondly, and perhaps more importantly, the U.S. does not want to add sort of its fingerprints all over the rebels and make it look like the U.S. is propping up the rebels.
You remember throughout the crisis, the crisis in Egypt before this, President Obama has taken great pains to say we are not pushing the people along. We're supportive of them in their peaceful protests, et cetera, but we don't want to make it -- we want to sure it's organic and not make it look the U.S. is propping it up, pushing it along that might delegitimize, if you will, their concerns on the ground there.
But -- so it would seem if you start arming the rebels, it puts the U.S. stamp all over it. So, right now, it seems unlikely, but a week from now, if this humanitarian crisis continues, it may be one of the only options left, Kiran.
VELSHI: We may look back at this, though, and see this as the few days where this changes from protests and unarmed protests into civil war in Libya because somehow they are getting weapons. Ed, good to talk to you. Thanks as always. We'll follow it with you.
HENRY: Good to see you.
CHETRY: And the chaos is reverberating, of course, here in the United States.
VELSHI: Sure.
CHETRY: Oil prices in particular spiking on this news. And right now, they are up trading at around $100 a barrel.
VELSHI: Which you can't see on that chart. There we go.
CHETRY: There you go.
VELSHI: All right. There we go.
Obviously, as oil prices increase, so do the prices at the pump. According to AAA, gas prices is up more than a penny overnight, which actually doesn't sound like much given how much gas has risen in the last few weeks. The national average is now $3.39 per gallon.
Just wait until you try to fly again. Could air fares be doubling in the coming weeks and months? Christine Romans joins us now.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: That sounds horrible, doesn't it?
VELSHI: Well, particularly for me because I use airplanes like a bus, I'm a few a week.
ROMANS: Absolutely you do.
CHETRY: You're going to have to start biking again.
VELSHI: From Atlanta to New York.
ROMANS: And the other thing here is that international flights, you're really going to start to see that really bite there.
Tom Parsons from BestFares.com told CNN Radio you could see $400 dollar surcharges to Europe -- on European flights, about 90 percent of flights to Europe already have fuel surcharges, 400 there. He says if you're traveling this summer, hope for a good fare, and if you see a good fare, buy it.
VELSHI: Wow.
ROMANS: That's the advice from Tom Parsons of BestFares.com, because they are only going up.
Now, what we know is that American Airlines is going to cut its plan capacity growth by 1 percent. What in the world does that mean? Well, it means there are going to be fewer seats, maybe fewer flights or different kinds of more fuel-efficient planes.
VELSHI: Which is a trend that we've been seeing for years.
ROMANS: That's right.
VELSHI: So, it's complicating something that's already -- airplanes don't like to fly empty seats.
ROMANS: No, they don't. That's absolutely right. And they also don't like to fly the older, more fuel-inefficient planes.
VELSHI: Right.
ROMANS: So, sometimes, they're going to be switching. They're going to be sending the kinds of flight -- the kinds of planes that they're sending up in the air are going to be changing.
So, this is something you could likely see air fares move up. Now, we've seen the big carriers try to raise air fares several times, right? And it's been hard to stick because the low cost air carriers won't go along with it.
But with a third of their cost being oil --
VELSHI: Yes.
ROMANS: -- it's pretty inevitable most folks are saying that you're going to see air fares going up -- maybe even doubling according to Best Fares.
VELSHI: I've been looking at fares and I've been talking to people who have in the last few days, particularly the summer fares to Europe, and the numbers that have been coming back are quite remarkable. You really are seeing these increases.
ROMANS: You have been seeing them.
VELSHI: Yes.
CHETRY: But see, it's strange, because we spoke to a cross- country flight for my hubby and we got unbelievable round trip deal and it was just on Delta.
ROMANS: Good.
CHETRY: You know, that was just one of many that were low. So, I mean, maybe it's the calm before the storm for domestic travel.
ROMANS: And that's what Best Fares is saying. They're saying if you see something like that, book it now because the pressure for the airlines is pretty incredible.
I mean, American Airlines lost $15 million because of all the storms. You know, that was a revenue hit of $15 million because of the storms in January and February. Now, oil going up is about a third of their cost overall for the airlines. So, we will watch the space, folks.
VELSHI: I'm going to become a long distance runner.
ROMANS: How many flights you take a week? You like three flights a week?
VELSHI: Three or four flights a week, yes, on a plane.
ROMANS: Wow.
VELSHI: Good to see you. I know you've taken a few this week already.
All right. You've had emails and then you lost. You might actually be getting it back. Google says it's in the process of restoring e-mail accounts that suddenly disappeared over the weekend. The problem affected tens of thousands of users which, by the way, in the Google world isn't all that much.
Google blames a glitch in the software update but how did the company lose and then find all the data so quickly? Well, it's a good lesson to you that information never disappears. The answer is that Google stores all of that data. It stores them.
CHETRY: That's right. Yes, in big, big computers!
VELSHI: Big computers.
CHETRY: Somewhere far, far away.
Well, is your old iPad, I don't want to make --
VELSHI: It makes you teary to talk about it, doesn't it?
CHETRY: It is totally obsolete now. Well, because, you know, every six months, boom, boom, something new.
VELSHI: Yes.
CHETRY: Well, now, iPad2 has launched today. Should you upgrade or should you wait? There's an iPad3 coming out as well. We're putting a tech genius on it coming up and he's also going to show us some of the other tablets companies are competing for this tablet business.
VELSHI: I just can't wait. I want to know how long it is before you get your hands on the next iPad because you -- I don't know anybody who loves their iPad as much as you do. And I know people who love their iPad.
Hey, former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee is in a little bit of hot water after saying that President Obama's world view is different from most Americans because of where he grew up. What's wrong with saying that? We'll tell you on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Thirteen minutes past the hour.
A shot of the White House this morning -- where Washington, D.C. is waking up with 37 degrees now. Fair, partly cloudy. A little bit later today, going up to a high of nearly 60.
VELSHI: Former Arkansas governor and potential Republican presidential candidate and former Republican president candidate, Mike Huckabee, claims that President Obama's view of the world differs from that of most Americans because he was raised in Kenya. Nothing wrong with being raised in Kenya, except the president was actually raised in Hawaii and Indonesia.
Listen to the comments that Huckabee made yesterday in an interview with a New York radio station.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
MIKE HUCKABEE (R), FORMER ARKANSAS GOVERNOR: I would love to know more, but what I know is troubling enough. And one thing that I do know is having grown up in Kenya, his view of the Brits, for example, very different than the average American's.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELSHI: OK. A spokesman for Huckabee says that the former Arkansas governor simply misspoke. He meant to say Indonesia instead of Kenya.
CHETRY: All right. Well, Newt Gingrich is positioning himself for a potential 2012 White House run. The former House speaker is expected to make an announcement tomorrow, that he's forming an organization to explore a run for the Republican nomination. His staff aides insist that this is not any official declaration that Gingrich is actually a candidate for president, but they do admit privately that expect him to run.
VELSHI: And Connecticut's former senior senator is now Hollywood's chief lobbyist. Chris Dodd has been named chairman and chief executive officer of the Motion Picture Association of America. The group lobbies Washington on behalf of the movie and television industries. Dodd says his experience working across party lines will help him in dealing with entertainment executives.
CHETRY: Well, legends of music, movies and literature all honored at the White House today. The president is actually giving out his National Medal of Art to a very accomplished group of people. Let's show you some of them that are going to be receiving this award.
Quincy Jones, the man who produced "Thriller," of course, among other things, being honored not only for his contributions to American music but reinventing it by fusing pop, jazz and hip-hop.
Also, Harper Lee for her ground-breaking novel 1960 Pulitzer Prize-winning novel, "To Kill a Mocking Bird." That's resonating within a new generation now.
Also, Meryl Streep -- many say the best American actress of our time.
And James Taylor, who's voice and endless song book have influenced music lovers from all walks of life.
VELSHI: All right. Apple launches the iPad2 today. What's different about it? How much better is it? I'm going to be interviewing Kiran Chetry, who knows the iPad better than anybody else about the new tablet.
Actually, we'll bring somebody else into the discussion as well right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: OK, do you see this?
VELSHI: Yes.
CHETRY: Just throw it in the garbage because they have a new one, and it's apparently much better. This is my iPad, but the new one --
VELSHI: And what's going to be new and better about it? I mean, listening to you talk about this for a year, because a year you've had this? I can't imagine it could get better.
CHETRY: I know you have one, too. I guess, you just don't break it out as much as I do, but listen, the new one is supposed to have a camera, perhaps two cameras, smaller, lighter, more operating systems, dual operating system so you can do more. So, is it worth it to run out and buy? And what about some of the other competing tablets that are trying and vying for this share the market?
Joining us is Jonathan Geller. He's the founder and editor-in- chief of Boy Genius Report at bgr.com. Good to see you this morning.
JONATHAN GELLER, FOUNDER, BOY GENIUS REPORT: thank you so much.
CHETRY: We're teasing a lot, but you did actually get to see some late photos of the iPad2. What's going to make it so much better this next generation?
GELLER: It's dramatically thinner. I mean, 40 percent thinner. It's very, very thin and has beautiful tapered edges and has a bigger speaker. It will definitely have two cameras.
VELSHI: Two cameras?
GELLER: One for face time (ph).
CHETRY: So, for face time and also to take pictures. So, a lot of people complained, why the heck did they make this first one without a camera?
GELLER: I think they just couldn't get it right in time, but now, I think all the ducks are in a row. So, it definitely will be an iPad, too.
VELSHI: OK. So, now, you got a few things in front of you. We always bring up the example of the fact that there were music players, digital music players. In some cases, that had more features than an iPod did and they were less expensive, and they had more capacity, but they never really, really took the iPod on. Will these other tablets take on the iPad?
GELLER: You know, it's hard to crack the code. I mean, there's these three competitors that most of them aren't out. They're very, very, very solid tablets.
CHETRY: Take us -- (CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: You know what's cool about this? I don't know which one this is and what order you were going to go in, but I think this is --
GELLER: Very portable.
VELSHI: You have to work it a little bit. In theory, if I rehearsed this, I would have been able to stick this in my jacket pocket --
CHETRY: Good try, though. I get what you were saying. I get where you're going. This is the smallest of them. This one is the Blackberry?
GELLER: It is. It's the Blackberry playbook. It's brand-new. It's the first tablet from Blackberry, and it's business ready. It will integrate with your corporate e-mail, your personal e-mail. It's a really beautiful product. It's small.
CHETRY: I love that you said it's corporate ready. There's a picture of Elmo right there, but --
GELLER: Sometimes, you have to have some fun with some applications.
CHETRY: No, I get it. I get it, but does it handle as well? I guess, one of the things people always talk about --
GELLER: You know, it's very smooth. They've done a great job with it. It's not out yet. It should be out probably end of this month or early next month.
CHETRY: How much is it?
GELLER: It will be competitively priced.
VELSHI: Nice. We don't want to give you all of the news here.
CHETRY: Right. Exactly.
VELSHI: All right. What else you got that's good?
GELLER: This is Motorola zoom. It just came out for Verizon, and it is -- it's OK -- upgradable to 4G for free. So, one of Verizons 4G network is extremely fast. Runs Google's latest operating system, and it's really cool. I mean, you can flip through all your different screens. You can go through the browser. You can pull up a site very, very quickly. And, again, this is the number one competitor to the iPad right now from Google.
CHETRY: Can you tell us how much this is going to be?
GELLER: This is actually more expensive than the iPad and probably the second iPad. $600 without contract for the Wi-Fi version. VELSHI: And what's the third one you have? Meanwhile, I'm going to still trying -- what is that?
GELLER: Absolutely. This is the G-Slate from T-Mobile and LG, and this is going to be out probably again end of this month, next month. What's really cool is it's smaller than the Zune. That's definitely more portable, thinner.
CHETRY: They're almost the same, but it's a little bit lighter.
GELLER: It's lighter. It has a smaller screen. It's really cool because it has 3D camera so you can take 3D video. You have a free TV. You can play that back. And, again, there's great access with the CNN app.
VELSHI: Nice.
GELLER: It's very, very, very solid.
VELSHI: What's your general take? If you've got a few hundred bucks and you want one of these things, what's your thought?
GELLER: I mean, definitely wait for today. See what happens with the iPad announcement. I really like the playbook. It's a really compelling product, but these are also good choices. They're just may be a little bit confusing for consumers.
VELSHI: I've been trying the whole time you've been talking. I've been trying to get this into my pocket, and I wasn't able to.
CHETRY: The space (ph) is not going to happen, so I think you should --
VELSHI: I need bigger pockets.
CHETRY: Or get a bigger suit. Yes. The other question is if you already have an iPad, do you need to run out and buy the iPad, too, if you're one of the, you know, the tech geeks that always --
VELSHI: What Kiran is looking for is permission to go out and buy the iPad2.
GELLER: It will be a great product. There are rumors that there might be an iPad3 by the holidays. So --
CHETRY: That's just insulting.
GELLER: Yes.
VELSHI: Do you use it so much? You could justify wanting it for pay months.
CHETRY: That's right.
GELLER: Absolutely.
CHETRY: I got this August 26, 2010. So --
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Good to see you.
CHETRY: Thanks for showing us all this. It will be interesting to see, because as we said, you know, people pan this at the beginning or at least try to make fun of it a little bit, and now, they've sold 14 million plus. So, we'll see what happens. Jonathan Geller with BoyGeniusReport.com, thanks so much.
GELLER: Thank you.
CHETRY: So, is your industry dying out? Check this out. We're looking ahead, 10, even 20 years, to figure out what the top ten jobs of the future will be.
VELSHI: Yes. This is going to be really interesting, really important for those of you looking to change careers and those of you looking to start a new career.
And coming up a little later, a shocking secret. Medical experiment conducted decades ago by the U.S. government on mental patients and inmates. How did the public not know this was going on? And are we sure that it's still not going on? It's 23 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: All right. Christine Romans is joining us here. We just promised that we were going to tell you about looking forward, looking ahead. The jobs of the future. Everybody needs this information, so let's not waste our time. Let's get right to you. What you got?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: How many times have you heard me talk about S.T.E.M.?
(CROSSTALK)
CHETRY: Science, technology, engineering, math. I'm not letting my --
VELSHI: The answer to the future.
ROMANS: That's right. STEM, STEM, STEM. The future of work over the next ten years. New analysis from Career Builders shows ten jobs that you can expect will grow. You should be looking for and training for in the next ten years. In technology, look at this, fiber security specialist, mobile application and developer, robotics technician, a stimulator engineer, social media manager. So, that's technology.
Then, there's medicine and environmentalism. These are the three big blocks of the future of work. In medicine, genetic counselor and medical records administrator. Stem cell researcher was also heard, our friend, Andrew Reuben (ph), over it and (INAUDIBLE) always talks about medical coders. Those are in big demand.
VELSHI: This is about billing, medical coders?
ROMANS: Yes, I think so.
CHETRY: You're saying that we make the transition from -- to electronic records and that is going to be an enormous amount of --
VELSHI: Right. It's actually quite remarkable how many hospitals still do this on their own and how many doctors still do it on their own as we mandate a change to everybody being automated.
ROMANS: And it's such a huge growing part of the economy. So, you want to get in the jobs in health care that are paying the money, too. Not the ones that are paying $19,000 a year, and there's a lot of jobs growing in there, too.
Also, environmentalism, organic food farmers, stability officers. This is from Career Builders. Some analysis that they have done specific kind of jobs. One technology I thought was interesting, social media manager. I mean, you think about that. A lot of companies are trying to figure out how to harness social media. So, these are all areas. Now, there's also where to go. The states with the best and worst job growth. North -- how many times --
VELSHI: I'm waiting for --
(LAUGHTER)
ROMANS: It's not on the list, but North Dakota is not top of (ph) of this list. Washington D.C. and South Dakota. Some of those states like North Dakota and South Dakota, the commodities boom has been very good for them, but they also have pretty diverse bases of kinds of jobs that are available.
VELSHI: And trigger point STEM, they got eds and meds. Educational institutions and hospitals and universities with medical --
ROMANS: The Worst Nevada, California, big problem there with real estate, too. And New Jersey, believe it or not. Those are the worst states for jobs growth.
VELSHI: California, they've just been hit very hard by the recession, so they've got a whole lot of people unemployed.
ROMANS: So, it's where you go and what you're studying. What you do, where the growth is going to be, and it's very hard to kind of pivot after you've been doing something for 20 or 25 years, but it's very instructive, I think, if you're in college and you got a kid is going to college. If you're thinking about a career reinvention, these are the areas that are getting all the buzz.
CHETRY: And what a surprise. I thought there'd more alternative energy. I mean, moving past oil and gasoline and trying to, you know, sort of -- VELSHI: There's actually bigger growth in traditional energy in oil, natural gas and coal right now. I think there probably is going to be a great deal of growth, but you talk about STEM jobs. a Lot of those engineering jobs are actually in the building of the infrastructure for alternative energy.
So, if you like alternative energy, take the technology or the engineering side of that, combined it with the environmentalism that you were talking about, and you got yourself --
ROMANS: Ali is a good proponent of accounting. That's one of the jobs that he always does. It's a very good job. And I'll point out, all of this -- I mean, I don't see anything here that doesn't take at least a bachelor's degree, folks.
CHETRY: Sciences, not arts.
VELSHI: I mean, the bottom line is most jobs in America in the next ten years will require a basic college education, not a high school education. So, that's just worth remembering.
ROMANS: Thanks, guys.
VELSHI: Great to see you.
It is 30 minutes after the hour. Time to check this morning's top stories.
Right now let's take a live picture of the capitol where the Senate will plan to keep the federal government in business another 14 days. The house passed the Bill yesterday to avoid a government shutdown on Friday night and Saturday morning. It cuts $4 billion in spending. Republicans say that is only the beginning.
CHETRY: The assassin who gunned down Robert F. Kennedy back in 1968 appears again before a parole board hearing in California. But this time two psychologists are insisting that Sirhan Sirhan is no longer a threat to society. He is 66 years old and has served nearly 43 in prison. His attorney claims his client has no memory of the shooting and suggests a second gunman was involved.
VELSHI: Moammar Gadhafi is holding a news conference which I think is well into its second hour. He is telling journalists and a number of reports gathered in the room in Tripoli he is still in control of Libya and some things happened overnight that seem to be backing him up.
CHETRY: He launched air strikes against two towns in eastern Libya in an attempt to seize them back from anti-government rebels. CNN's Ben Wedeman is in eastern Libya and joins us on the phone right now. Hello, Ben.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kiran. Yes, a major battle seems to be brewing here in eastern part of Libya near the town of Al-Brega, a vital natural gas and oil export facility. We are told this morning by eyewitnesses several dozen Toyota pickup trucks full of forces loyal to Moammar Gadhafi with anti-aircraft guns and mortars came into the edge of town.
They seem to be in control of some parts of Brega. What we are seeing on the other side is hundreds of people basically volunteer fighters are flocking to this area to prepare for some sort of counterattack.
We were at the main checkpoint outside of Ajdabiya, which is a half hour drive from Brega. There hundreds of people there were busy assembling anti-aircraft guns and rifles they just got out of an ammunition dump and washing them down with gasoline to get the old grease off. So now we're at this other checkpoint outside Brega where more of these fighters are coming and assembling and preparing to launch a counter offensive against Gadhafi forces in the town of Brega itself.
We are told at least two people have been killed in the fighting so far. Witnesses say a 12-year-old boy and a 50-year-old man were killed and just where I am, I've watched as several ambulances have gone by with the wounded and also in private cars containing people who were wounded in the fighting. Kiran?
CHETRY: Ben, it's Ali. Let me just ask you something. As we're watching this, we are noticing the difference what happened in Tunisia and Egypt where you covered both on the ground, where it was protesters and armed government. Is this becoming civil war? And can you, on the ground where you are, determine who government forces are and who our rebels are?
VELSHI: This is very much developing into an armed conflict instead of, as you said, unarmed protesters against the security forces of the state at least in this area. It's very much, it looks like, it's becoming plain out and out warfare.
VELSHI: Ben, thank you very much. We will keep on top of this story.
CHETRY: As Ed Henry eluded to as well it's a tough decision for the United States about whether or not they would help enforce a no- fly zone in that region because we have tried to carefully not insert ourselves into that situation and appear to be siding now with these loosely --
VELSHI: Loosely affiliated oppositionists. And there are number of embassies around the world, Libyan missions have disassociated themselves with the Libyan government, so this thing is becoming murkier and murkier by the hour.
Listen to this, by the way, U.S. government doctors injecting cancer cells into disabled people in New York, giving a pandemic flu virus to prison inmates in Maryland. This is not fiction. This actually happened. How did it happen? We will speak to Amy Gutmann in charge of studying bioethical issues for the president and also the president of the University of Pennsylvania. She is up next to tell us how to make sure it doesn't happen again.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) VELSHI: This morning, we want to talk to but one of the biggest violations of medical ethics ever perpetrated on U.S. citizens. It started in Tuskegee, Alabama, more than 75 years ago. About 400 African-Americans were part of a study to track the effects of syphilis. They did not consent to the tests and they were intentionally denied simple treatments that could have helped them.
President Clinton eventually offered an official apology and a settlement was reached, but this week medical experts and others are meeting to make sure something like this never happens again. And leading that effort is Amy Gutmann. She heads the presidential commission for the study of bioethical issues and she is also the president of the University of Pennsylvania.
Dr. Gutmann, thanks for being with us. This is not a single incident. We have actually had many of these things happen. What is the purpose of your commission? Are we worried that these types of things are still happening today?
AMY GUTMANN, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: Ali, we can't know whether these things are happening today unless we have a fact-finding mission and that is what President Obama has asked the presidential commission on bioethics to do, to actually meet with experts and ask them what is it today that would prevent these things from happening again?
They have happened too many times in our history and we want to make sure and the president wants to make sure that we can assure the American public that if they are part of a scientific experiment or a medical experiment, they will be treated with respect and fairly.
VELSHI: I think it's fair to say many of us assume that the very important testing that goes on for drugs and diseases should be and that there are rigorous standards for them. What are the basic things that you think need to be established and accepted across the board? What are the basic standards for deciding when you're using people to test medicines or diseases?
GUTMANN: So that's exactly the right question. We should all be able to know that certain basic standards are in place when we agree to be part of a clinical trial. And those include that the trial has some value, scientific value, that it has a protocol that makes the benefits to the risk ratio favorable to the people who are in the trial.
We should expect to have informed consent to the trial. We should expect that there be an independent review board that has reviewed the trial for its ratio of benefits to risk. And we also should expect that we will be treated with respect during the trial. So it ought to be something that everybody who volunteers for can expect to benefit from.
VELSHI: It sounds very logical but let me go back to 1962 to 1966 at the Willow Brooks State School in Staten Island where an experiment using children who were mentally retarded. They were given Hepatitis orally to see if they could be cured with Gamma globulin. How do you deal with than consent issue with people with mental illnesses?
GUTMANN: First of all, the Willow Brook case and another case in a Jewish disease hospital with elderly people, those are the kinds of cases we want to make sure cannot happen again. How we deal today with children is --- I call it the mother and child test we should have, which is, if it were your child, would you want your child in this experiment?
VELSHI: Yes.
GUTMANN: So it is, again, the closest -- the parent or the custodian of the child ought to be fully informed and consent. But that's not enough. There also has to be an independent review board that makes sure that these experiments are beneficial on balance.
VELSHI: I know given your academic history and the rigor you want to approach this, you don't want to offer an evaluation where we are right now. Tell me this -- where is the United States with respect to the rest of the world? Are there places in the world that we think this is still going on and that rights are being violated?
GUTMANN: Well, first let me say that we heard from experts yesterday in Washington and we asked them this very question, how is the United States relative to the rest of the world?
And they actually said there are ways in which the United States is not the most favorable place to have clinical trials, and part of that is because the cost is so high. Remember, this is like a tight rope. You want to make sure you don't have trials that take so long that beneficial medicines cannot be given to people because that saves lives. At the same time, you want to make sure the trials aren't so short that they short-circuit the risks. And so you want to make sure that drugs don't go on to the market before they are actually safe.
So we don't know right now how the United States is relative to the rest of the world, and that is why the president has asked me to convene an international task force of experts. And those experts are going to sit down with me and we're going to actually discuss how different countries and the United States fare in this regard.
And we should come up with a report by year's end that can inform the public as well as the president of where we stand.
VELSHI: We know you're having more hearings in May. We will follow this along with you. Very curious to see what happens. Dr. Amy Gutmann is the chair for the study of bioethical issues and the president of the University of Pennsylvania.
CHETRY: Ali, thanks.
We will check in with Rob Marciano coming up. Cold air is invading the north and snow and rain in the west. He is keeping an eye on it. It's 44 minutes past the hour. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) VELSHI: That's the remedy and the remedy to the cold in New York is to be right there in Atlanta; beautiful, balmy. A fair 45 degrees, but later on, it's going to be mostly sunny and 69.
CHETRY: Too bad you can't afford to fly there anymore.
VELSHI: No, I know. It still costs there but I can run.
CHETRY: Yes.
VELSHI: Rob is there. Isn't he?
CHETRY: Yes he is. He is enjoying the 70 -- 70 degree weather, right?
ROB MARCIANO, AMS METEOROLOGIST: I'll tell you what, driving home from work yesterday, the pear trees were blooming --
(CROSS TALK)
VELSHI: Totally it looks beautiful. It's beautiful.
MARCIANO: -- I'm mean, the cherry trees starting to blossom.
VELSHI: Yes.
MARCIANO: Yes, spring comes early down here in the south; so come on down and enjoy.
All right, guys listen. With spring, we've got to deal with the -- the potential for flooding and we've just started this ball rolling. A lot of rain across parts of the Midwest yesterday or past couple of days especially Indiana through parts of Ohio. That coupled with the intense snow pack has led to some serious flooding in these areas and all that water filtering down into the main rivers, the Ohio, the Illinois and the Mississippi some of these rivers really won't crest until we got to Thursday, Friday or even Saturday and this is just the beginning of the spring melt. We'll look for more of these issues going forward.
All right, across the northeast, almost spring-like; I mean some of the trees really want to bloom but they'll -- they'll feel the pinch today and then later on tonight with this front dropping down. We are looking at temperatures that are going to be much, much cooler tomorrow.
It's already cooler across parts of the western Great Lakes as this air mass drops down to the south we are talking about temps tomorrow across the northeast that will be 10 degrees to 20 degrees below average and at least 15 degrees to 20 degrees below where you are today.
So be prepared or at least get out there and enjoy what Mother Nature brings you today.
Bringing some storms to the West Coast from Seattle all the way down to San Francisco and down to San Diego, this is strong, it's a big storm. It's got some wind with it and of course some higher elevation snows and this is slowing down the airport right now at San Francisco.
If you're flying out west, be aware of that. Right now an hour and five a minute -- a minute delays in San Francisco. We'll probably see some delays at the New York airport because of that very mild southwest wind. But it may be just enough to have that -- have to switch up the runways there at LaGuardia.
Down across the south, Texas and Florida still dealing with those fires; the weather not really going to help or hurt the situation there but certainly no rain involved. And the bigger story I think is going to be cooler air that kind of reinforces a -- a reminder that we are still in the winter season.
69 degrees in Atlanta today for a high temperature -- yes, bring it on; 74 degrees in Dallas; it'll be 52 degrees in New York City today; but 30 degrees in Chicago today and this air is certainly driving down to the south and east; and it's 16 degrees in Minneapolis. I'm not sure when the trees bloom up there in Minneapolis. Well, I'm -- I have a feeling it's not very good --
(CROSS TALK)
VELSHI: Not yet.
CHETRY: It's the perennial snow bush. It's just -- it's just always white and you can't see it until August.
MARCIANO: Nobody grows them better than in -- in Minnesota.
CHETRY: Exactly. All right, thank you Rob.
VELSHI: The perennial snow bush.
CHETRY: Yes. Well, in a little over an hour astronauts on the shuttle are going to do spacewalk number two today. It'll be the focus on tackling some smaller tasks like installing new cameras. The whole spacewalk is expected to last about six hours.
VELSHI: Globs of oil washed ashore last summer; you remember that after the BP oil spill. Now thousands of Gulf Coast residents and cleanup workers are wondering what effect it might have had on their health. Look at that. Remember those pictures, that gloopy, gobby oil? Its 49 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: We're getting some new and alarming information out of Libya, out of our Ben Wedeman who is on the ground in eastern Libya. Let's get right to it.
He joins us on the phone now with the latest. And you were talking about hearing airplanes overhead and also some -- some potential bombings. What are you hearing? BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): I'm hearing not potential bombings but real bombings. We saw the Libyan aircraft flew overhead. We're outside the town of Brega. They dropped one bomb about, I'd say, about two miles away from us. And then the plane made another turn. The plane that made another turn and dropped a bomb probably about 40 yards from where I was standing.
Nobody was injured. Nobody was killed in the bombing, but, obviously, the -- the Libyan planes feel free to fly throughout the skies of Libya and this is all part of this ongoing battle that's going on in the town of Brega which, of course, is critical, given that it has these large oil export and natural gas exports facilities. And we understand that the Libyan forces have taken over a university on the outskirts of the -- the village, the town of Brega. And we've been watching as hundreds of volunteer forces from the opposition side have been gathering in this area making preparations for a possible counterattack against the Libyan forces, the -- the Gadhafi forces in the town of Brega.
VELSHI: Ok, let me know what -- what -- later in the day, we are expecting, Ben, we've been reporting, this that we are expecting this coalition of opposition forces to ask the United States to -- to declare and enforce a no-fly zone over -- over Libya.
Is this what that is meant to counter, the idea that Libyan planes are -- are bombing their own cities?
WEDEMAN: Well, that is -- that is the desire that some sort of no-fly zone be imposed so exactly this kind of bombing won't be able to happen because as it is, the anti-Gadhafi forces don't really have much air power at their disposition. And -- as we were, just minutes ago, sort of sitting ducks in a very open terrain.
But not all Libyans are in favor of foreign involvement in this current rebellion, but increasingly what we're hearing, certainly from people here on the front lines is that they are desperate for some sort of stop to these air raids which could have drastic consequences.
CHETRY: And -- and we hear the sounds above you and -- and behind you it seems as -- as you're even on the phone with us right now. I mean, how -- are you currently in danger? And -- and are people around you right now? I mean, what is the -- I -- I guess what's the plan, if any, to -- to stay out of harm's way?
WEDEMAN: Well, it's kind of difficult to tell you that, because, you know, when there's gunfire, you can always hide. When aircrafts are dropping bombs some 3,000 feet above you, all you can do is hit the ground and hope you don't get hurt.
VELSHI: Yes and Ben you've been sort of tracing this issue around, you started in Tunisia and you ended up on Egypt and now you're on the eastern side of Libya. Is -- is it -- is it -- your sense of this is the -- the battleground and this is where it's going to be? Because Eastern Libya is the area that we understood to be controlled by anti-Gadhafi forces and now this overnight -- these raids, these bombs and a show of force by the Libyan military. Is this where the fight is going to happen?
WEDEMAN: Well, certainly this is where one of the fights is going to happen. This is sort of at the very edge of the area controlled by the anti-Gadhafi forces, so inevitably, there's going to be some sort of conflict and some sort of fighting between the two.
But really the more critical action is going on in the western part of the country in towns like Mizrata and Zawiya which are very close to the Libyan capital. This is I think more than anything, just an attempt to tell the people of the east who have thrown off Gadhafi's rule that they are not safe, they are not immune from the reach of Gadhafi's air force and ground forces.
CHETRY: Right. Well, please stay safe. I know you're reporting on a very important and -- and actually a history-making event that's happening right now.
Ben, thank you so much. Again, Ben Wedeman in eastern Libya where he said, you know, there are bombs being dropped from airplanes.
VELSHI: Yes, he said one was 40 -- 40 yards from him.
CHETRY: Yes, 40 yards from -- from where they were.
VELSHI: Yes.
CHETRY: He was -- he said no one was injured or killed but he could see in that air strike but again, a show of force by the Gadhafi government.
We're going to have much more coming up. We're going to take a break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Well, we want to thank you so much for being with us this morning. We had a lot of news to cover today and we will be right back bright and early tomorrow at 6:00 Eastern.
VELSHI: All right, lots of stories. We've got what's going on in Wisconsin. We've got what's going in Washington with the budget and we've got what's going on in Libya.
Carol Costello is going to pick it up for us right now with "CNN NEWSROOM." Carol, a busy morning for you as well.
