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Nancy Grace
Bodies of Two Children Found in Florida Canal
Aired March 02, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, California. The gorgeous young wife of an upscale restaurant owner vanishes without a trace. Three weeks later, friends, not the husband, call police. Then just days after wife Dawn goes missing, her husband of 15 years plants a brand-new girlfriend in the family home and promotes the girlfriend to his wife`s job as hostess at the restaurant. He then goes on a cleaning kick, throwing all his wife`s belongings straight into the dumpster, even having Dawn`s black Jeep Cherokee towed away. The case sits dormant until we report on it, and then we confirm trace of blood spatter in the family home. What does hubby do? He takes an 80-foot plunge off the rocky coastline and survives.
Bombshell tonight. Literally as we go to air, cops and cadaver dogs swarming the restaurant, digging with high-powered jackhammers, pickaxes, shovels ripping up the restaurant`s brand-new cement and tile floors in search of Dawn`s body. Tonight, did the husband murder his wife, bury her under the floor of his up-and-coming restaurant, then do business literally on her grave, him and his new girlfriend walking back and forth on her dead body day in and day out?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sounds of a jackhammer breaking up the concrete flooring of the Thyme restaurant in Lomida.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now authorities are digging away at the building`s floor and foundation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives are swarming the place.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have enough information to lead us to believe that she could have been buried there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives strongly believe that the body of Dawn Viens is hidden, buried underneath that concrete flooring.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe she`s there.
GRACE: This guy thought he was never going to get caught.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you have any thoughts, any fears that your sister would be a murder victim by her husband?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How soon? How long ago?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The moment I found out she was missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. The gorgeous young wife of an upscale restaurant owner vanishes without a trace. Literally as we go to air, cops, cadaver dogs swarming the husband`s restaurant, digging with jackhammers, pickaxes, shovels, ripping up the restaurant`s brand-new foundation. Did her husband murder his wife, bury her under the floor of his up-and-coming restaurant, then literally do business on her grave?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: California police are digging underneath a restaurant for missing woman Dawn Viens after cadaver dogs reportedly indicated a body may be in the foundation of the building.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`ve brought in jackhammers, dogs, and they`re convinced that by the end of the day, they will find something.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police using heavy excavation equipment and a fire crew are hammering away at the floor and foundation of the restaurant that was owned by both Dawn and husband David Viens.
GRACE: I guarantee you, he won`t say a word unless he says it coming in and out of that pain medication.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s like truth serum. But he`s not going to do that. This guys is pretty tight and closed-mouthed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The crew are reportedly focusing on the back portion of the restaurant and have been spotted carrying bags of dirt away from the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope they do because I want them to find her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re convinced she`s in there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have given us pretty good indication that they have reason to believe she is here. I just want them to find her, wherever that may be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Before we go to the dig site, first live to Florida, to a quiet Delray beachside (ph). A black duffel bag, we learn, has just popped up, bobbing along a beach canal. And as we go to air, the body of a small female child has been discovered. No clues to identity at this moment.
And in the last moments, the body of a little boy discovered, as well, alongside that duffel bag, in a suitcase. No clues as to identity tonight. Tonight, who are the children in that duffel bag? Who is the little boy in that suitcase?
We`re going to go straight out to a presser. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SGT. NICOLE GUERRIERO, DELRAY BEACH POLICE DEPARTMENT: As you all know, at about 9:00 AM this morning, our dive team located a juvenile black female. She was ranging from anywhere from 6 to possibly now 10 years of age. She was located in a large black duffel bag.
At about 3:00 to 3:30 this afternoon, we located a second child. We located that child approximately a half a mile west of the area where the first child was located. The second child is a black male. We`re thinking the child is probably anywhere from 10 to 12 years of age. He was wearing dark blue shorts at the time he was found. He was also located in the water inside of a suitcase.
We`re devastated, and someone is missing these children. Someone knows these children, and we need to know who these kids are. Just to mention, and it`s really important to note that where these kids were located crosses different major roadways. Congress Avenue directly crosses this canal. There is access to I-95. It crosses Federal Highway. These kids can be from anywhere. So if anyone has not seen their grandchild, their niece, their nephew, please give us a call. We have two detectives that are working on this case. Detective Sosa (ph) can be reached at 561- 243-7828...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We`ll take you right back to that presser, but let`s get a grip on what`s happening there in Delray, Florida. To Alexis Weed, our producer. Everybody, we are live on the scene. Alexis, what do we know?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, this disturbing discovery today made -- what we thought we were going to report was this young girl found in this canal in a duffel bag, Nancy. But dive teams went in. They went to search the area for evidence, and they find a second child`s body, Nancy, a male child.
GRACE: OK, we`re going to go straight back into the presser. For those of you just joining us, we`re going to take you to that California restaurant whose foundation is being ripped up as we go to air in search of the wife`s body. But we`re learning that two children`s bodies have bobbed up in this Florida canal. It is a beachside canal, Delray Beach, Florida. First a little girl. We don`t know her age. We don`t know her identity. No identifying markers on the body in a duffel bag. Soon thereafter, we find a suitcase with a little boy`s body on it. Urgent. We know it`s been run through NCMEC. No alert. These children have not even been reported missing.
Straight back into the presser, Liz, please.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUERRIERO: As you all know, at about 9:00 AM this morning, our dive team located a juvenile black female. She was ranging from anywhere from 6 to possibly now 10 years of age. She was located in a large black duffel bag.
At about 3:00 to 3:30 this afternoon, we located a second child. We located that child approximately a half a mile west of the area where the first child was located. The second child is a black male. We`re thinking the child is probably anywhere from 10 to 12 years of age. He was wearing dark blue shorts at the time he was found. He was also located in the water inside of a suitcase.
We`re devastated, and someone is missing these children. Someone knows these children, and we need to know who these kids are. Just to mention, and it`s really important to note that where these kids were located crosses different major roadways. Congress Avenue directly crosses this canal. There`s access to I-95. It crosses...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We`re going to take you right back to that presser. But first, joining me, special guest from Delray Beach, Florida -- we`re there live at this canal -- is Sergeant Nicole Guerriero, the PIO of the Delray Beach Police Department. Sergeant, thank you so much for being with us.
GUERRIERO: Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: Sergeant, tell me what prompted the discovery of the two bodies.
GUERRIERO: Originally, we received a call from a resident in the area who said there was a suspicious bag in the canal that was directly behind their house. It was approximately to the -- towards -- more towards the middle of the canal. They contacted us, and we sent some people out here. Our dive team, the Delray Beach Police dive team, came out and were able to retrieve the bag. The medical examiner then came out, and we found that inside the bag, there was a black female child, we think anywhere from 6 to 10 years of age.
GRACE: Also with us, in addition to Sergeant Nicole Guerriero, there at the canal, Delray Beach, Florida, is C. Ron Allen. He is the editor of "The Delray Beach Tribune."
For those of you joining us, before we take you to our lead story, we have just learned about two children, a little girl in a duffel bag, her head covered in braids -- she had white beads in each braid -- and a little boy in a separate suitcase. A bystander observes the duffel bag bobbing up and along the canal, alerts police. They race to the scene to find this tragic discovery.
To C. Ron Allen, editor, "The Delray Beach Tribune." Ron, thank you for being with us. Ron, what more can you tell me?
C. RON ALLEN, "DELRAY BEACH TRIBUNE": Well, Nancy, the neighbors around here are quite disturbed about what`s happening in this -- what`s normally a quiet neighborhood. As Nicole said, that many people may have seen what happened. And the police department, they`re asking -- they`re making a plea for someone to come out and tell us who this child is. Someone out there knows who this child is.
GRACE: Yes, they do. And what`s so disturbing to me -- back to Sergeant Nicole Guerriero, the public information officer there at Delray Beach Police Department -- is that there is no missing person report on anybody that fits these two children`s descriptions. Have you guys run it through the federal database, as well as National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, Sergeant?
GUERRIERO: We have, Nancy. We`ve checked SCIC, NCIC (ph). We`ve checked the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. We`re actively working with them to help us as a resource in finding out who these kids are. We`re -- like I said before, we`re absolutely devastated. Someone is missing these children. Someone knows these children, and they need to let us know who these kids are so we can go ahead and find out what happened to them and who did it.
GRACE: These are children that should be reporting to elementary school tomorrow morning. Instead, there on a quiet canal, a beach canal, Delray Beach, Florida, a duffel bag bobs to the surface, followed by a suitcase. Inside, a little boy and a little girl.
Somebody is going to jail! And let me tell you, that`s their first stop on an all-expense-paid trip to hell, people!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUERRIERO: The first child was located closer to the middle of the canal. The second child was located closer to the bank. Somebody is missing these children. It`s got -- there`s got to be a grandmother. There`s got to be an aunt, a teacher, someone who knows that these children are missing, and that`s the information that we need desperately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUERRIERO: At this time, we`re assuming. And I`m going to say that we`re assuming that possibly this is related. It just is coincidental (ph) that to us that two children would be located in the same canal about a half mile from each other, and they were both in some type of bag. It`s an assumption for us at this point that we`re -- we`re guessing and...
QUESTION: Were you searching for a second child, or did you get called like the first one?
GUERRIERO: Actually, what happened was we decided to do, like, a canvas of the canal to see if we could locate any evidence that would help us with the first child that was located. And while doing that, a member of our dive team, along with Boca Raton dive team, located this second suitcase. And the same thing. We called the ME, and the ME confirmed that there was a body inside the suitcase.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live there at that Delray, Florida, canal. Onlookers are stunned when they see a duffel bag as it is pulled out, the body of a young girl inside. She is unidentified. Then shortly thereafter, a suitcase floats to the top of the canal. Clearly, the two connected. Inside the suitcase, a little boy. At this hour, no identification, no identifying markers, and neither of them have been reported missing on a nationwide search.
We are taking your calls. Out to Amanda in West Virginia. Hi, Amanda.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call.
GRACE: Thank you for calling in, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, first I just want to say that my boyfriend and I watch your show every night, and we think you`re wonderful. And you do such a great job of helping all the victims.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And a lot of my questions have already been answered. But one question is, when they located the bodies, did the police notice any signs of trauma to the bodies, that they could have been abused or injuries could have occurred prior to being dumped in the canal?
GRACE: Good question. To Alexis Weed. Alexis, it`s my understanding the bodies do not show any sign of trauma.
WEED: As far as police are telling us, right, there`s no sign of visible injury at this point.
GRACE: And back to Sergeant Nicole Guerriero, the PIO, Delray Beach Police Department. Sergeant, that could mean anything from an asphyxiation, a strangling, a smothering death, a conk on the head that you can`t see through the hair unless the body goes to the medical examiner. Or the children could have been just thrown in. But I don`t see how you could get a live child stuck in a suitcase or a duffel bag like that.
Were there any signs of injury to the bodies, Sergeant?
GUERRIERO: At this point, Nancy, we don`t see -- we haven`t seen any signs, and we`re leaving it to the medical examiner to tell us that information. At first sight for us, we didn`t see any. But we`re going to wait and get the report back from the ME on that.
GRACE: And it`s also my understanding, Sergeant, that they were not skeletonized. They were not skeletonized.
GUERRIERO: That`s correct, Nancy. They were not.
GRACE: OK. To Pat Brown, criminal profiler, author of "The Profiler," joining me out of D.C., the nation`s capital. Pat, what does this tell you? Do you believe a family member must be involved, since nobody`s reported them missing?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Yes, I would think so. And I think there`s probably a couple involved, and I think they`re probably not well connected to a community. So they are probably transient, maybe lived someplace for a while, and when they left, nobody really paid attention to the fact they were gone, and their own families probably had no idea where they were and never noticed the children were missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUERRIERO: This is all preliminary information that we`ve received from the ME, and we`re waiting for them to get back to us to let us know how long they think that the children have been there. They were not skeletal remains. They have been affected by the water, but they were still intact.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)
GUERRIERO: We don`t know right now. We`re not sure. We`re going to wait for the ME to let us know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUERRIERO: I just believe that because they hadn`t seen it there before, that they saw the duffel bag and thought, That`s kind of strange, I don`t know why that would be there. And they just gave us a call. As we always ask our citizens, if you think something`s suspicious, if you -- you know, if you see something that doesn`t look right, give us a call. That`s what we`re here for. And that`s -- Amazingly, that`s what they did, and you know, I have to thank them for doing that.
The first child was located closer to the middle of the canal. The second child was located closer to the bank.
QUESTION: Was the second child found in the process of just kind of doing a routine investigation of the area?
GUERRIERO: That`s right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Patricia in Maryland. Hi, Patricia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love you to death! And thanks for doing all the work for the people out there. My question to you is, do you know whether or not the kids are related, or did I miss that?
GRACE: We do believe that they are related. To Alexis Weed. What do we know? Don`t we think it`s a girl and her brother?
WEED: We don`t know for sure, Nancy, but the female is between 6 and 10 years old, the male is believed to be between 10 and 12.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president, founder Klaas Kids Foundation. Weigh in, Marc.
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: You know, if law enforcement isn`t able to solve this case through normal investigative techniques, at some point, they may have to release either photos of the children, or depending upon the -- depending upon their condition, facial reconstructions. And while that`s macabre, it is certainly not unprecedented. And then I suspect they will probably find out who these children were.
GRACE: Well, you know what? It`s not unused (ph), reconstruction, in many, many cases. As a prosecutor, sometimes you have to, due to the condition of the body.
To C.W. Jensen, retired police captain joining us out of Portland tonight. C.W., what do you think?
C.W. JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: Well, I believe that these two children are related, and I believe that probably somebody related to these children is responsible. I`ve found, working as a homicide detective, if parents lose children, parents call the police right away. If someone is trying to do something to children like this, kill the children, dump their bodies, it just seems like this is probably some way involved in the family.
And I would believe also, with the attention that this show is giving, also you`ll get in the local media, that people are going to put two and two together and we`ll figure out who these kids are pretty fast.
GRACE: Sergeant Guerriero, I understand the girl is between 6 and 12, 70 to 90 pounds, four feet tall, wearing short-sleeved T-shirt, dark pants, blue polo sneakers, braided hair with clear white beads. What was the little boy wearing, Sergeant?
GUERRIERO: At the time, he was wearing just dark blue or possibly black shorts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUERRIERO: (INAUDIBLE) to have to come up to match the description of the child. So that`s why it was so important for us to get this information out. If anybody knows of anyone who might be missing that matches that description, if they could give us a call immediately, it would be extremely helpful.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Dawn Viens was last seen leaving her husband`s cafe. She was never seen again.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He didn`t alert the authorities for three weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That speaks volumes.
JOE CACACE, FRIEND OF DAWN VIENS: He always just had a problem with her because she was a very honest and simple person. And he was kind of a shady guy.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": When he believed police were after him, literally he jumped off an 80-foot cliff.
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Evidence of flight is evidence of guilt.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Boo-hoo. This guy thought he was never going to get caught.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: New blood spatter evidence found at the home the two shared.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Wherever they think Dawn`s body is tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Detectives strongly believe that the body of Dawn Viens is hidden buried underneath that concrete flooring.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Hammering away at the floor and foundation of the restaurant, that was owned by both Dawn and husband David Viens.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe she`s there. We`ll see what pans out.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The sounds of a jackhammer breaking up the concrete flooring of the Thyme restaurant in Lomita.
ZARRELL: Now authorities are digging away at the building`s floor and foundation.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Detectives are swarming the place --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have enough information to lead to us believe that she could have been buried there.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Detectives strongly believe that the body of Dawn Viens is hidden buried underneath that concrete flooring.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe she is there.
GRACE: This guy thought he was never going to get caught.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did you have any thoughts, any fears that your sister would be a murder victim by her husband?
DAYNA PAPIN, SISTER OF MISSING WIFE, DAWN VIENS: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: How soon? How long ago?
PAPIN: The moment I found out she was missing.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, Dawn Viens goes missing according to her husband, just vanishes into thin air.
Well, we are live at the sight of a dig -- a dig at the husband`s up and coming restaurant there in California. Police honing in with heavy equipment, digging up the cement and tile floor under their belief that her body is buried there in the restaurant.
That the husband and his new girlfriend who he promptly moved into the home and into his job -- his wife`s job as hostess of the restaurant, have literally been walking back and forth over her dead body ever since she went missing.
Straight out to Larry Altman, reporter with "The Daily Breeze." He has been at the restaurant all day long today during the search.
What have you observed, Larry? What were they doing inside the restaurant?
LARRY ALTMAN, REPORTER, THE DAILY BREEZE", OUTSIDE HUBBY RESTAURANT WHERE COPS DIGGING FOR WIFE`S BODY: Firefighters were here all day. They had heavy equipment, jackhammers, saws, drills. We could hear it all day. And I just took a look inside the window of the restaurant.
And basically the back end of the restaurant is gone. They basically hauled away the floor. It`s all gone.
GRACE: I want to go to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. Take me back. How did all this start? And why now? This case lay dormant until we reported on it. And then suddenly cops appoint a brand new investigative team and start reinvestigating the case. And now suddenly they`ve dug out the bottom of the husband`s restaurant.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Well, on October 18th, 2009 is the last time anybody saw Dawn Viens. Her husband said that he actually fired her. They got in an argument --
GRACE: Whoa. Whoa.
JOSTAD: Yes.
GRACE: The husband fires his wife from the family restaurant. OK. Go ahead.
JOSTAD: Right. Right. Her friends claim that he fired her that day. He said she just walked away, took a Louis Vuitton back with her. That was the last time he saw her.
Now, shortly after that, and you`re right. We did report on this story back shortly after her disappearance. They later decided that this was not just a missing person case. This was a homicide case.
But actually Larry Altman had the big scoop last week when he reported that blood had been found in the couple`s home. The husband and his new girlfriend had moved out. Police went in with Luminol, they found blood spatter in the house. That was what kind of got this whole new bit of activity going.
And as Larry explained, there`s been this massive search the past two days trying to figure out if Dawn`s remains were entombed in that restaurant.
GRACE: OK. Back to Larry Altman who broke the story about blood spatter being found around the family home.
You know, Larry, again you just can`t put a price tag on a good cleaning service. These two, the husband and the girlfriend, move out. Cops go in, I believe you said under the guise they might rent the place? And they do investigative work and find blood spatter throughout the home. Microscopic blood spatter that the husband obviously did not see.
Now what leads them to come and start digging up the floor of the restaurant?
ALTMAN: Well, they -- additionally they received some information that she might have been buried there. We don`t know exactly where that came from. But he did a renovations on this restaurant. He expanded into the neighboring property throughout much of the last year. And so there was a lot of concrete poured and a lot of plumbing work. A lot of things that were done here after Dawn disappeared.
GRACE: Joining us right now, a special guest Dayna Papin. She is Dawn`s sister. She has been at the restaurant as well throughout this day as cops bring in heavy machinery to dig out the floor, cement and tile, looking for the body of his gorgeous young wife, Dawn Viens.
Dayna, thank you for being with us. It`s my understanding that you`ve been there all day long. What`s going through your mind as you`re seeing them ripping out the floor of the restaurant where your sister was hostess?
PAPIN: I`m terrified they actually might find her here. It makes me sick to my stomach to think that he could have been working here for the last 16 months, walking over her and still pretending that she just walked away unharmed.
GRACE: Dayna, it`s also my understanding that you have actually confronted him. You are brave.
PAPIN: Yes.
GRACE: You go and confront him. Not once, not twice, but four times. What happened?
PAPIN: Yes. The first time he actually was very emotional and actually cried and hugged me and wouldn`t let me go. The last time he threatened to call the police on me and ordered me to leave his property. He obviously couldn`t look me in the eye anymore.
GRACE: So he asked you to leave?
PAPIN: He said he had nothing to say to me. And when I wouldn`t leave right away, he threatened to call the police and I told him to call the police. Told him they`re pretty good friends of mine now because of him.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us out of Florida -- Orlando, Florida, high profile defense attorney, Mark Nejame. Out of New York, defense attorney Alan Ripka.
To both of you -- first to you, Nejame. You`ve got a problem, I think, as a defense attorney when your client, you`ve got one of the few links to your wife that`s gone missing. Your beautiful and beloved wife. And that`s her sister. And when the sister comes to your client for comfort and -- for questions, you threaten to call cops on her?
I think any jury is going to have a problem with that, Mr. Nejame.
MARK NEJAME, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I don`t disagree with you. It`s a challenging -- it`s a challenging set of facts as you presented them. But I will tell you, I had a case years ago where a client was accused of torching a house where two children were killed.
It ran in the local press that the police were looking for him. Ended up getting involved with a standoff with the police. It turned out he didn`t do it. Everybody thought he did because of his behavior but he felt his children were dead, he was being blamed, he had nothing to live for.
So there are unique circumstances. This doesn`t like one. But it can happen and that`s why they needed to do their full -- investigation makes sure they`re doing the job right.
GRACE: You know you are right, Nejame. It can happen. However, this guy -- one thing after the next. I mean come on. He spots a police car and what does he do? He took an 80-foot plunge off a cliff and lived.
Alan Ripka, just as I predicted the other night he starts rambling there in the hospital making a lot of incriminating statements. But what about throwing the sister out of the restaurant when she comes there upset?
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s surely not going to be the basis of the prosecution`s case. I`d love for them to say that`s why he was guilty. I need to see that that blood spatter, number one, is the deceased`s and I need to see a connection with my client. And that`s not going to happen so --
GRACE: Hey, take a look at this picture, Alan. There you see them bringing a gurney into the dig site. That is behind the restaurant.
We are taking your calls. To Sarah in Pennsylvania. Hi, Sarah.
SARAH, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hello, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
SARAH: I was wondering, why did it take so long for them to report her and then for him to move somebody in so quickly and that wasn`t --
GRACE: That wasn`t what?
SARAH: Suspicious.
GRACE: Yes, I find it highly suspicious. Back to Dawn`s sister, Dayna Papin.
You know, Dayna, that is one of the very first thing that jumps out at you. Your sister, he says just vanishes. He says he expects her to come back after ski season, I believe is what he said. But then he suddenly moves his girlfriend in and props her up as the restaurant hostess where your sister worked.
PAPIN: Yes. Yes.
GRACE: How quickly did that happen?
PAPIN: Very quickly. Too quickly.
GRACE: Like a month? A week? A day?
PAPIN: I was told it was within a week or two that they were seeing together and there was suspicion that something was going on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Detectives are swarming the place.
ZARRELL: Hoping to find Dawn`s body hidden inside.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Have the sister of Dawn Viens is hoping as well.
PAPIN: They have given us a pretty good indication that they have reason to believe she is here. I just want them to find her wherever that may be.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ZARRELL: California police are digging underneath a restaurant for missing woman Dawn Viens after cadaver dogs reportedly indicated a body may be in the foundation of the building.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They brought in jackhammers, dogs and they`re convinced that by the end of the day, they will find something.
ZARRELL: Police using heavy excavation equipment and a fire crew are hammering away at the floor and foundation of the restaurant that was owned by both Dawn and husband David Viens.
GRACE: I guarantee you he won`t say a word unless he says it coming in and out of that pain medication.
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s like truth serum but he`s not going to do that. This guy is pretty tight and closed mouth.
ZARRELL: The crew are reportedly focusing on the back portion of the restaurant and have been spotted carrying bags of dirt away from the scene.
PAPIN: I hope they do, because I want them to find her.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You`re convinced she is in there.
PAPIN: They have given us a pretty good indication that they have reason to believe she is here. I just want them to find her wherever that may be.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls, out to Rebecca in Texas. Hi, Rebecca.
REBECCA, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
REBECCA: My question is, I`ve been seeing all the pictures and he doesn`t look very happy with her. So that would give them motive to kill her, wouldn`t it?
GRACE: The fact that he is not happy? Well, you could probably say that about 99.9 percent of married couples in the country at one point or the other. You`re going to get a shot of them looking very unhappy.
What about it, Dr. Patricia Saunders, joining us out of New York?
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: They reportedly had a pretty volatile relationship. And allegedly were both using drugs. But for psychopaths, they don`t have normal attachments to other people. People aren`t real and three dimensional so you can fire your wife.
You can say that you`re not going to offer a reward because you don`t have the money. It is too expensive. And you can bury your wife in concrete and walk over her dead body every day. No conscience. No guilt. And people are interchangeable.
GRACE: Joining me right now, anchor, Talkradio 790 KABC, Debra Mark.
Debra Mark, weigh in. What do you know?
DEBRA MARK, ANCHOR, TALKRADIO 790 KABC: Well, Nancy, investigators, detectives, the cadaver dogs, even a fire crew all day long were at this restaurant digging, digging, digging. Taking out tables, heat lamps, doing everything they can to try and find her body. So we`re waiting to see what`s going on.
GRACE: We are taking your call, to Tiffany in Texas. Hi, Tiffany.
TIFFANY, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hey, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: Hi, dear. I`m good. What`s your question?
TIFFANY: Yes. I was looking at his picture and it seems to me like he might be jealous of another guy or something. Because I had something similar happen to me over another guy. Because the guy that I was with, he was jealous and I was wondering if he may have had something, you know --
GRACE: Good question. Back to Larry Altman with "The Daily Breeze."
It seems to me that she was on the other foot. He`s the one that had a girlfriend, apparently. Not her. She didn`t have a lover.
ALTMAN: Right. You know he didn`t really let her have many friends. He liked to control her money. He was a controlling guy. So you know, and the sheriff said they had a volatile relationship.
GRACE: Joining us is Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health, Johns Hopkins.
Doctor Makary, thank you for being with us. Explain to me how someone could survive an 80-foot plunge off a cliff. This guy managed to do it.
DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, clearly it was a suicide attempt. And what happened is that he didn`t land directly flat on the ground. He landed on a slope. And if we look at the factors involved in survival from these long falls, it`s how they land.
Is on it a flat surface or a slope? On what part of the body they land and how big they are? Because obviously the bigger they are, the more momentum. He must have been healthy and he must have gotten very lucky because only about 50 percent of people survive anything beyond 40 feet. So he`s a very lucky man.
GRACE: So, Debra Mark, Talkradio 790 KABC, what were his injuries and what prompted him to jump of a cliff?
MARK: Well, Nancy, broken bones and he was not in good shape. He is a little bit better. We`re hearing that he is out of ICU. And the reason that he wanted -- the reason he jumped off that cliff is he knew that they were after him. That police were after him. That they suspected him of his wife`s murder.
And he apparently was in a little argument with his girlfriend who, it seems like, didn`t have any clue, Nancy, that he was a suspect in the case. And when he knew that cops were after him, he jumped. He ran out of his car. He noticed that the cops were following him. Stopped, got out of his car and dove down.
GRACE: To Dayna Papin, this is Dawn`s sister joining us there at the restaurant dig.
For those of you just joining us. Cops with heavy machinery at the husband`s restaurant digging out the cement and tile floor looking for Dawn`s body. Had he literally been walking over her along with his girlfriend, day in, day out?
Dayna, I understand he`s made some incriminating statements in the hospital. Was that true?
PAPIN: Yes, it is. We found out today that he has admitted he killed my sister.
GRACE: What do we know that he said, Larry Altman?
ALTMAN: Not much. That`s pretty much all detectives said today. That he essentially confessed. Additionally last week when my article came out saying that he was a person of interest, the girlfriend confronted him with it and he implicated himself and admitted to it to her.
And they additionally have information from his daughter in South Carolina additionally that he did it.
GRACE: Of course I`m sure the defense attorneys, Mark Nejame and Alan Ripka, are going to say those statements are inadmissible, that he was on pain medication.
We`re going to go straight back to the restaurant dig in just a moment, but I want touch back to the bodies found in the Delray Canal, Delray Beach Canal.
To Sergeant Nicole Guerrero standing by at the canal.
Sergeant, any more word about whether these children have been reported missing?
SGT. NICOLE GUERRERO, PIO, DELRAY BEACH POLICE DEPT.: Not as of yet, Nancy. They have not been reported. Up to what we know right now, they have not been reported missing.
GRACE: What is the scene there right now, Sergeant? What`s happening?
GUERRERO: Right now there`s no police on scene at this time. They`re back at the police department, you know, getting themselves ready for a long night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The sounds of a jackhammer breaking up the concrete flooring of the Thyme restaurant in Lomita. Why?
ZARRELL: Police say they are searching for Dawn`s body underneath the restaurant she co-owned with her husband.
GRACE: He obviously didn`t expect Dawn Viens to walk back in the door.
PAPIN: I want them to find her.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to CW Jensen, retired police captain joining us tonight from Portland.
Weigh in, CW.
CW JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: Well, I think this is obviously very, very suspicious. First you have a guy that is -- goes for 16 months with his wife probably buried. I mean, what are the chances that your wife is gone and you do a remodeling job on your business or your home?
I mean, that was creepy just to begin with. Then the fact he confesses to his girlfriend and then he throws himself off a cliff. This guy`s going to be in prison for a long time.
GRACE: OK. Back to the lawyers. Mark Nejame, Alan Ripka.
Gentlemen, which one of you would like to eat a dirt sandwich first? What about it, Nejame? While he`s under his pain medication he lets a little too much slip out.
NEJAME: Quite the opposite. I think since he did not make a statement to law enforcement and in fact he was not in custody when he supposedly made a statement to the girlfriend, there`s a greater likelihood than not that that statement will be admissible. Of course the defense lawyer is going to get into whether it was freely and voluntarily made.
And that`s appropriate because if it wasn`t freely and voluntarily made it shouldn`t have been -- it shouldn`t have been taken. But that`s -- we`ve got to get into that.
GRACE: Do you agree, Alan?
RIPKA: No. I think for all you know the girlfriend has something to do with it. And maybe he felt so badly about allowing it --
GRACE: You know what?
RIPKA: How do you know?
GRACE: Sometimes I wonder, Ripka, if you didn`t get your JD. But instead your master`s in creative writing.
Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Clinton Upchurch, 31, Garden City, Kansas. Killed Iraq. Awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart, buried at Arlington. Sheriff`s deputy back home. Also assistant DEA. Loved God, family, country, motorcycles.
Favorite team, Dallas Cowboys. Favorite animal, the wolf. Leaves behind parents Cindy and Greg, a Vietnam vet. Sister Misty, brother John, widow Carrie. Sons Ryan, Earl, and Patrick.
Clinton Upchurch, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you. And a special hello to little Virginia crime fighter Olivia and mother Wendy.
Olivia draws this beautiful portrait of me while watching the show.
Thank you, Olivia.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.
END
