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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Casey Anthony`s Dad Clashes with Prosecutors; Boy, 12, Kills Parents, Injures Siblings
Aired March 03, 2011 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, groundbreaking new testimony in the Casey Anthony hearings. Her father, George Anthony, battles with prosecutors and leaves the witness stand in tears. What pushed George over the edge? And why is Casey`s all-star defense team now revealing that the FBI wore a wire inside the Anthony home right after innocent little Caylee went missing?
A bone-chilling double murder mystery in Florida. Cops find two little kids: one stuffed in a duffel bag, the other folded into a suitcase, floating down the canal. Who are these precious children, and who could have committed this monstrous crime?
Then, a shocking small-town horror for a deeply-religious family. Cops suspect a 12-year-old of brutally murdering his parents and critically injuring his young brother and sister. The family`s pastor says the boy had a servant`s heart. What does that mean? And why did this seemingly perfect family explode in violence?
Plus, a beauty queen dethroned. I`ll talk one-on-one with former Miss San Antonio live on ISSUES tonight. She just lost her title and is at war with pageant honchos. Did she really lose her crown over tacos?
ISSUES starts now.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You love your granddaughter more than anything in the world?
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you would have done anything to help find her?
G. ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You love your daughter more than anything in the world?
G. ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you would do anything to protect her?
G. ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is your baby?
G. ANTHONY: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That poor man has been through hell. Tonight, fireworks in court. George Anthony, as you just saw, breaks down in tears on the stand during day two of the most critical hearing so far in his daughter, Casey Anthony`s, murder case.
The distraught dad of the defendant went from crying to clashing big- time with the prosecutor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
G. ANTHONY: I don`t know why you`re going in this direction because right now...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Anthony is challenging me rather than answering questions.
G. ANTHONY: I will challenge you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is the second time an emotional George is scolded by the judge for talking over the prosecutor. So what`s the point of putting this poor man, still grieving over the loss of his precious granddaughter, Caylee, through the emotional wringer?
Casey`s defense dream team is trying to convince the judge that the jury should not hear the Anthony family`s statements to investigators. And they also want to show that cops tried to go around Casey`s lawyers by secretly using George and Casey`s brother, Lee, as Casey interrogator, so to speak. If the defense can prove that brother, Lee, and dad, George, were used by detectives to get information out of Casey, that could amount to a violation of her rights, and it could get whatever she revealed to them thrown out.
And get this: as Lee leaves the stand, he whispers, "I love you" to his sister. And Casey has no response. Is this family sticking together or falling apart? Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586-7297. Will all this raw emotion and drama have any impact on the judge`s crucial decisions?
Straight out to "In Session" correspondent Jean Casarez.
Jean, you`ve been inside the court. Give us the big picture. What is so crucial about what happened today?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": The big picture is this is real life. And we`ve got legal issues, but we`ve got emotional issues in that courtroom, too.
The legal issue is the defense doesn`t want any statement that Casey made to law enforcement the evening of July 15 and 16 right after it was found out that Caylee Anthony was missing. And she doesn`t want any of those jailhouse videos that we saw a several years ago for hours on end with her family talking to her. They want all of that suppressed.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`ve got a take on all that. And here`s my take.
I think the defense desperately wants to throw out the Zanny the nanny explanation, because it`s become a joke at this point that Zanny the nanny took the baby, which was her original explanation. And if they can get that thrown out, what they can do then is bring in a new explanation of what happened to the child. And that`s where Roy Kronk comes in.
Then they can introduce the meter reader who found the child`s remains in December of 2008, several months after he called them in. OK? So that is my theory. They want all this thrown out because her original explanation of what happened to the child, Leonard Padilla, doesn`t hold water. So if they get to introduce a new explanation with Roy Kronk, the meter reader, then they could try to blame it on him, even though cops say he was just a good Samaritan.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: They`re not going to get anywhere with Kronk as far as an excuse.
And your theory on getting rid of all those statements and all that evidence and all that because she wasn`t Mirandized, that`s absolutely right on, and you can tell by the line of questioning.
Now Lee himself is not going to help the defense, because he said he had his own thing going. He wasn`t working with the cops, et cetera, et cetera.
But as far as the rest of the family, I think their understanding that, if they can get a lot of that thrown out, it`s going to be for -- for the better of Casey`s situation.
But I don`t think it`s -- I don`t think they`re going to go with Kronk. I think they`re too -- too scared of the situation of trying to go with him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, now, just what was George fighting with the prosecution about today in court as he sat on the stand?
George was being questioned about his own efforts to investigate what happened. His own efforts to investigate what happened to his then-missing granddaughter, little Caylee. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
G. ANTHONY: Anything I could have done to brought my granddaughter home I would have done, and I would still do. Still do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you -- and the point being that you would have done that independent of law enforcement, correct?
G. ANTHONY: If they wouldn`t have helped, I would have found other means to help. And I did that. I did that through Kid Finders Network and other organizations to help assist, other families that were there to assist us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
G. ANTHONY: I don`t know why you`re going in this direction, because right now...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your honor, I`m going to object. Mr. Anthony is challenging me rather than answering questions.
G. ANTHONY: I will challenge you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: These Anthony family members were in a terrible bind. They desperately wanted to find out what happened to their precious little granddaughter, Caylee, who was already missing a month when they found out about it in July of 2008. But they were also desperately afraid of finding anything out that would implicate little Caylee`s mom, Casey, who they also love. Dr. Dale, that is a prescription for just the utmost frustration.
DR. DALE ARCHER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: You`re exactly right, Jane. And that`s exactly what we`re seeing in George. He is being torn apart because, as the prosecutor said, he loved Caylee, and he loves Casey. And what type of father has to be faced with the thought that your daughter possibly could be responsible for the murder of your granddaughter? So I think that`s why the whole family is just being ripped to shreds right now emotionally.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Linda, Oklahoma, your question or thought, ma`am?
CALLER: Hi.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
CALLER: I was just wanting to know what is wrong with those people in Florida? Every day, there`s somebody in Florida cutting up their kids and putting them in a suitcase, locking them in the closet, doing all kinds of stuff to them. What is up with the water there?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I don`t think it`s anything wrong with Florida. Listen, I worked in Ft. Myers, Florida. It`s a beautiful area, and all of Florida is gorgeous, right from the Keys all the way up to the border there with Georgia.
But the fact is that there have been a lot of high-profile cases down there.
Jean Casarez, do you think the defense is going to get anywhere with this attempt to take out everything that Casey said in the initial moments in July of 2008 when the police came into her life after mom Cindy called 911 when she realized that little Caylee was missing and had been missing for 30 days?
I mean, this is the crucial stuff that she told cops. She said, "Oh, Zanny the nanny took the baby. Oh, I work at Universal Studios." All apparent lies. And if they get that thrown out, that`s got to be crippling for the prosecutor.
CASAREZ: Well, here`s the thing, let`s look at the timeline. All right, when officers got to the home on July 15, from what I understand in testimony, one of the first things that happened is they sat Casey down at the dining room table, and she wrote out a statement. So did she feel that she could leave at that point?
Prosecutors are going to say she wasn`t in custody. She was at her home. They just were writing down a statement as a witness, because her daughter was missing and had been abducted. That, I think, is going to come in. And that, I think, is going to have a lot of statements against interest.
Beyond that, after that, that`s when she was handcuffed. So maybe anything around that handcuffed period, she felt she was in custody. But the next morning, she freely got up from her own bed, went into the detectives` car, and freely went with them to Universal, because she wanted to go there because she said she worked there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, of course, prosecutors are seeking a first- degree murder conviction and a death penalty. So if all of this stuff gets thrown out, it could really cripple the case against Casey Anthony.
We`re just getting started, people. More on the Casey Anthony drama- rama in court today in just a moment, and we`re taking your calls. They`re lining up right on the other side of the break: 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
Plus, later, cops say a 12-year-old murdered his parents and critically injured his little brother and sister. How did this seemingly perfect family explode into unthinkable violence? Well, apparently, the little boy said he was bored.
But first, more on Casey Anthony in court today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You told your daughter that she`s like the boss of a conglomerate.
G. ANTHONY: Casey is -- Casey can -- say what she wants to do or not do at this point. She`s an adult. And she`s controlling how her life is going on from there. I mean, that`s -- that`s the easiest way I can describe it, yes, she is the boss.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
G. ANTHONY: I`ve said this many, many times, and I`d agree with you to a point, but you know, ma`am, I would have sold my soul to the devil to get my granddaughter back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Raw emotions in court today in a crucial Casey Anthony hearing; pretrial, of course. And also an awkward moment for Casey`s brother, Lee, today.
Defense attorney Jose Baez asked Lee if he lied to his sister Casey when he promised to keep her secret about what happened to Caylee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If she gives you a letter through this letter system, that you won`t share it with anyone if she doesn`t want you to?
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: Correct, that`s what I said, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you say that to her from brother to sister?
L. ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you lying?
L. ANTHONY: Maybe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Poor Lee. God, you`ve got to feel sorry for him, too.
My big issue: was Lee`s lie to Casey a white lie? Wasn`t Lee just doing everything he could to get to the bottom of what happened to his little niece? And Drew Findling, I`m still trying to get to the bottom of what this all means, all this emotional testimony from the family to this case?
DREW FINDLING, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, here`s the bottom line. We`re not in front of a jury right now. And what`s really important right now is what evidence is going to go to a jury. And what`s significant is were they used in any way by law enforcement, as you said in the introduction, to be an agent? Were they representing law enforcement to get Casey to make a statement? Because if they were, the information goes out, cannot be used in front of the jury. There`s not much discussion about it.
And that, when all the emotion is set aside, that`s what this hearing is about.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. You`d think the cops would have known that by now. How many TV shows do we have to watch, and yet cops seem to make the same mistakes over and over again in these cases when they`re in the heat of the investigation and excited to get information and, of course, afraid that they might have a child who`s in danger that they`re trying to find. I think that`s what overrides all their calculations.
They still thought maybe this child was alive and had been kidnapped by someone, so they`re doing anything they can to get information, even allegedly using the family.
David, Wisconsin, your question or thought, sir?
CALLER: Hi, Jane. How are you?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good.
CALLER: Good. Listen, something just came to my attention. I mean, this case has really gotten me baffled for a couple years now, and I`m just thinking, I have a comment that I`d like you to elaborate on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, go ahead.
CALLER: See, there was a time when George wanted to go in Casey`s trunk. Casey denied him access into the trunk and didn`t want to go. She went and - she left and went somewhere. When she came back, then he was able to go into her trunk.
Now couldn`t that be the time when she maybe dropped off the body, and that`s where Roy Kronk found the body, when she went back to the house, and then her father could go into her trunk?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`ll throw that to Leonard Padilla. You were there on the scene shortly after all this began.
PADILLA: He`s got some of the facts right. George himself was trying to figure out on the 24th of June who stole the gas in the gas cans. So he kind of used a ruse, in other words, that he needed something out of the trunk out of her car to see if the gas cans were there.
He worked his way back to the rear of the car. But she ran around him, opened the trunk, threw the gas cans, and said, "There`s your gas cans," slammed it. And I believe that`s the day that she went down the street around the corner and got rid of the body, that particular day. She did not come back to the house. She`d already dumped the gas cans at his feet.
And then, if you look at the towers as far as her cell phone and all that, you`ll see that she did not come back to the house on that particular day. That was the 24th.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I will add...
PADILLA: Three days later, the 27th, the car runs out of gas.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... allegedly. Allegedly, that what we`re trying to figure out here at trial. She hasn`t been convicted yet.
So the prosecutor also asked Casey`s brother, Lee, about his conversations with one of Casey`s ex-boyfriends, Tony Lazaro. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yourself were talking to witnesses, people that you knew or at some point learned to be friends of your sister`s?
L. ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Including an individual named Tony Lazaro.
L. ANTHONY: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In a car?
L. ANTHONY: Which I believe was recorded.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Without your knowledge.
L. ANTHONY: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
L. ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You were not the individual working with law enforcement to record the meeting that took place between you and Tony Lazaro, correct?
L. ANTHONY: Not on that one, no.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So Tony Lazaro was working with cops to record secret meetings and calls with Lee. Cops had hoped Lee would reveal something about Caylee.
Lee told Tony that Casey stopped talking to her family and friends in the spring of 2008. So Jean Casarez, what that says to me in plain English is that -- that the prosecutor is trying to prove, no, they weren`t manipulated by cops. It was the ex-boyfriend who was trying to get information out of them, and they were like, Casey isn`t really telling us anything.
CASAREZ: That`s right. And the prosecution is trying to show through every cross-examination that everything was voluntary by the family.
I`ve got to tell you, I was in the courtroom for Lee Anthony. He`s really down to earth. I mean, as he testified, he`s just matter of fact, seems to be very truthful, harbors no anger, as we see in George and Cindy when they`re up there.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean, very quickly, five seconds, when is the judge going to decide all this crucial stuff?
CASAREZ: I think it will be a while. He`s going to have to look at both sides. There`s going to have to be arguments by both sides, also. Probably next week or the next week.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, fantastic panel.
Coming up, two little kids found stuffed and folded into suitcases. A horror story in a Florida canal. Who are these precious, innocent children, and who would have committed this heinous crime? Breaking news, fast developments as we speak in that case.
But first, small-town murder horror. Police say a 12-year-old boy executed his parents and tried to execute his little brother and sister. A so-called perfect family, but the little boy was -- bored.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody liked him. Everybody liked her. It just crushed me to know somebody I graduated with was murdered in this little tiny town.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Horrific carnage rocks a small, quiet town. A 12- year-old boy calls 911, reporting bullets fired, three dead in this Colorado home. Cops rush in to find that boy`s parents, 50-year-old Charles Long and 51-year-old Marilyn Long dead and his 5-year-old sister and 9-year-old brother critically injured. The only one unhurt in the home, the family`s 12-year-old son, who has not been identified because guess what? Cops say he is now the only suspect in this apparent murder investigation.
And even more mind-boggling is how this family is being described.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very committed to his family and went to church every Sunday. I used to see him walk down the street, going to church.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They were reportedly a good, Christian family. That`s how they were described. The suspect -- or suspected killer kid -- this guy, this kid, has been described as pleasant with a servant`s heart, who was home-schooled by his mother, and reported being bored. That`s what he would say to people. So did he murder this family because he was bored?
Dr. Dale Archer, you`re a clinical psychiatrist. Can a child in a picture-perfect family just explode in violence for no reason, or does there have to be more to the story?
ARCHER: There absolutely has to be more to the story, Jane. And I`ve got to tell you, the first thing you think about in a case like this is child abuse.
And I know everyone out there around the family is saying, "You know, they`re not like that. They were good people, and there`s no way. And I would know if they were like that," but the truth is you do not know. And you always can`t tell.
But that`s the first thing that jumps out in my mind, is that there was something going on in that family, and I suspect abuse.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In Colorado, a 12-year-old can be charged as an adult for certain serious crimes, and what could be more serious than this? Now, no word on whether he will be tried as an adult.
But in cases like this, the child`s back story and his relationship with his parents is going to be key. Any defense is likely to completely deconstruct and analyze this whole family and especially the relationships. OK? In order to put the jury in the boy`s shoes on the theory that no child just suddenly guns down their entire family for no reason.
I was very taken by the whole issue that he reported being bored.
ARCHER: Well, you know, I think that -- I don`t know where that came from, but bored does not explain murder. Bored does not explain killing two individuals, your parents, and trying to kill two others. That, to me, indicates -- I mean, it could be a severe psychiatric condition, but we have no evidence for that, and you would have evidence at the school, where look, this kid had a problem. He was seeing a psychiatrist. He was hearing voices. He was weird; he was strange. We don`t have any of that. It looks like this was a family that stuck together.
And the other thing that you`ve got to look into, and you know, and I`m reluctant to say this, but what was going on with the church? Because you know, they were a church-going family. They went to church all the time. This was apparently an evangelical church.
So you`ve just got to -- you`ve got to wonder about that, as well. And I`m sure that`s going to be investigated also.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They`re going to -- again, dissect everything, every aspect of this family.
Thank you so much, Dr. Archer.
On the other side of the break, two precious kids dead, inside suitcases floating down a canal. Have cops tracked down the killer? OK. We can tell you there`s breaking news as we speak. They`ve surrounded a house. We`re going to bring you the very latest, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A bone-chilling double murder mystery in Florida. Cops find two little kids. One stuffed in a duffel bag, the other folded into a suitcase, floating down a canal. Who are these precious children, and who could have committed this monstrous crime?
Plus, a beauty queen dethroned. I`ll talk one-on-one with former Miss San Antonio live. She just lost her title and is at war with pageant honchos. Did she really lose her crown over tacos?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SGT. NICOLE GUERRERO, DELRAY BEACH POLICE DEPT: There`s got to be a grandmother, there`s got to be an aunt, a teacher, someone who knows that these children are missing. And that`s the information that we need desperately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, unbelievably dramatic developments, breaking news happening right now as we speak in Delray Beach, Florida. Police have now surrounded a house and they`re questioning a man as they desperately try to find out who stuffed two precious children into bags and dumped them into a nearby canal. What kind of monster would throw two children into a canal like trash?
Well, a homeowner living near the canal that runs between Delray and Boca Raton, Florida called the cops when she saw a bag bobbing in the water. The cops pull out the duffel bag and find a little girl stuffed inside. Then, a few hours later, cops find a suitcase; inside, a little boy is literally folded up. What a horror.
Now cops believe the children are brother and sister. And that this nightmare is, quote, "a domestic situation". What does that mean?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GUERRERO: Right now, we have detectives at several locations. We received some information that we`re trying to confirm. We believe we have the children ID`d. However, we don`t have confirmation yet so we`re not able to release that information.
We are following up leads to confirm that we have them ID`d and that what we believe is true. And we do want to say that we believe this incident is domestic-related. We believe that they are brother and sister.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, we`re going to go straight out to Sergeant Nicole Guerrero who is public information officer for Delray Beach. Thank you for joining us. I know you`re very busy right now because this story is breaking as we speak.
I understand that you are talking to somebody by the name of Clem Beauchamp. He`s a father of four. He`s 34 years old. And he apparently has been having relationship problems and he also has a criminal record that includes everything from buying drugs to armed robbery.
Tell us what you know, Sergeant, about this Clem Beauchamp that you`re talking to.
GUERRERO (via telephone): Right now, all I know is our detectives consider him a suspect. And they are interviewing him as we speak. So he`s -- he`s the person we`re looking at.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, is he -- neighbors describe him as a doting father of four children who had been having relationship problems and acting strangely of late. Have you been able to find and identify his four children? Or is there a possibility that these two children who were found in the canal are the children of this individual?
GUERRERO: We don`t actually have that information yet. We haven`t been able to confirm the identities of the children. So we don`t have the information, whether or not --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re saying -- excuse me, you have been able to confirm the identities of the children?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, we have not been able to.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But you think you know them -- you think you know who they are?
GUERRERO: I`m sorry, what did you say?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You think you know who they are, correct?
GUERRERO: We believe we know who they are. It`s just we don`t have what we would consider good enough evidence to put it out and say -- confirming these are the children. Until we have that DNA evidence or scientific evidence to prove that these are the kids that we think they are then we`re not comfortable putting that out yet.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, could I ask you, are you investigating the possibility that these two children are one of the four children of Clem Beauchamp?
GUERRERO: We have made sure that we checked on all the children that are related to Clem Beauchamp. So you know, we`re not ready yet to say who the kids are and whether or not they`re related to him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, and we understand that the Department of Children and Families is collaborating with you. Child care workers are looking through the history of any children in the area to see if they match up with these children.
Ok, here is what the kids look like. Cops believe the girl is between the ages of 6 and 12. Her hear was beaded with braids. She was wearing short sleeves, dark pants, blue polo sneakers.
The boy is 10, between 10 and 12, wearing dark blue or black pants, but with no shirt.
Both children, African-American; they didn`t have any outward signs of injury.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s terrible. I don`t know how anyone can hurt a child like that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am heartbroken for the family that is going to find out that their child is gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unless, of course, the family itself is involved. We`re going to go to John Zarrella, CNN correspondent, who is all over the story -- very fast-breaking developments. What can you tell us, John?
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jane. You know, it really all began, as you mentioned, last night and police obviously got some breaks very early on. They did not have any idea this morning who these kids were. But once the media accounts got out there, pretty quickly, they were able to hone in on this Clem Beauchamp. And by all estimations, he does appear at least from everything we`re hearing, to be somewhat related to the children.
Now, police aren`t saying that yet, as you just heard, but you know, it`s awful that this comes right on the heels, as you know, Jane, of just two weeks ago, the Barahona case in Palm Beach County up there as well, which is still developing with that sad, sad situation going on.
And by the way, in that case, police in Miami-Dade have just now taken over as the lead investigators in the Nubia Barahona death, the little girl found in the back of her father`s vehicle because now police say her death, quote, "may have taken place in Miami" not West Palm.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, getting back to this case --
ZARRELLA: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- where these children were found in this canal in bags, a suitcase and a duffel bag -- how horrific -- imagine the help these investigators who found these children are going to need, the psychiatric help and counseling. What a trauma to open up a suitcase and find a child folded inside. I can`t imagine -- honestly.
ZARRELLA: And they never expect -- they never expected the second one. They arrived at the scene when they got the report of the first one at 9:00 yesterday morning. They get the duffel bag out, they find the little girl.
While they`re then searching the canal over the course of the next six hours for evidence, they find the suitcase, and there`s the other child. Horrible.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And here is my big issue tonight. There`s no innocent explanation for this. If one child dies accidentally, you could say well, somebody panicked and in their panic, they disposed of the body. But, Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst, two children, no innocent explanation.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, no innocent explanation whatsoever. And Jane, law enforcement says that they don`t believe there are any more bodies in the water, which would lead me to believe that this is a good suspect.
Of course, Sergeant Guerrero from Delray Police couldn`t really say for sure that it was a positive identification, and she`s not going do that. But there is some connection, as John said, has to be between Beauchamp and these two little kids.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I`m going to go to Reggie in Florida. And as we do, let`s take a look at the Google map that really shows this area from the East Coast right down to the canals where this is all happening.
Reggie, Florida, your question or thought, ma`am?
REGGIE, FLORIDA (via telephone): Well, hi, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.
REGGIE: I was just wondering if there was a DNA test done on this Clem Beauchamp and the two bodies. If there was a connection with the DNA?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you taking, Sergeant Guerrero, are you taking samples from the suspect to see if he`s biologically connected to these children.
GUERRERO: At this point, I don`t know whether or not DNA has been taken from him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How did you get to him?
GUERRERO: I`m sorry, I didn`t hear what you said?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How did you get to him? Was it a tip that led you to this Clem person?
GUERRERO: Yes. Our investigators were getting tips and they were getting information, and they were following up on each and every tip and any information that they got. Their leads brought them to Mr. Beauchamp.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What does that tell you, Mike Brooks, about, again, neighbors are saying this guy has been acting strangely; he`d been having relationship problems. He does have four kids. He`s got a record. A criminal record, and then you hear tips led authorities to him.
BROOKS: Yes, and you heard Sergeant Guerrero earlier at the presser say that this was domestic related. So you know, all along you take the tips, you take probably neighbors, and they are at a house at Southwest 7th avenue and First Street where they believe these children lived, Jane. Apparently that`s the house they believed the children lived.
So but the caller is onto something there with the DNA because there could still could be some evidence that confirms that Beauchamp is involved in this that could be inside the duffel bag or inside the suitcase. It`s likely they will -- as the course of the investigation takes --
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s a horror.
BROOKS: It really is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to thank our entire panel: Sergeant Guerrero, John Zarrella, Mike Brooks for weighing in on this horror. It`s too bad that we have to. Thank you all three.
My new book, "Addict Nation" is at amazon.com right now. It`s not just Charlie Sheen and all the other celebrities we`re talking about. If you`re grappling with an addiction or know somebody who is, find out what you can do about it. Check out addictnation.org or amazon.com. Read it and get liberated from addiction.
All right, coming up, I`m joined live by former Miss San Antonio. She`s been dethroned, but she isn`t giving up the fight. Did the pageant head honchos really take her crown for eating too many tacos? Yes, that`s what they`re claiming. Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
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DOMONIQUE RAMIREZ, FORMER MISS SAN ANTONIO: I`m very thankful to have my crown back, and hopefully I can keep it. I told her that I would tone up and slim down. But I would not lose 13 pounds.
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RAMIREZ: I`m very grateful to have my crown back, and hopefully I can keep it. I told her that I would tone up and slim down, but I would not lose 15 pounds.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, that teen beauty queen loses her crown. Was her tiara yanked off her head because she went to town on tacos? Seventeen-year-old Domonique Ramirez says she was ordered by pageant organizers to, quote, "lay off the tacos or lose your crown".
At 5`9 and about 130 pounds, she felt there was no weight for her to lose. That she was just fine the way she was. Tonight, it played out like a made-for-TV movie. A Texas judge literally stripped her of her title, and pageant organizers took her tiara and plopped it on the runner-up`s head right in the courtroom. She`s crying. That sounds mean to me.
The pageant director says Domonique`s fluctuating weight wasn`t the only issue. They claim she was also insubordinate and late to events and that she had a dirty sash and a broken crown. They say the final straw came when she Domonique modeled for a bridal show without getting permission.
Domonique was not in court. She actually had to be rushed to the hospital by ambulance, suffering from symptoms of pneumonia. Her attorney says it was all brought on by the stress of spending five hours on the witness stand the day before -- over a crown? My gosh, there are people on trial for murder who don`t spend that much time on the witness stand.
The Miss San Antonio title includes a scholarship, a position in the Miss Texas pageant, and a chance to compete in the Miss America pageant.
I am delighted to welcome Domonique Ramirez. Domonique, I hope you`re recovering well from your pneumonia. It looks like you are. You look pretty healthy to me right there.
What was your reaction when you found out that the crown had been taken and put on the head of the runner-up in court?
RAMIREZ: I mean it was a little, I guess, over the top. My mom actually called me -- or I called my mother at 5:00 that day to find out what had happened. I managed to wake up because I had been asleep all day. But she told me that the judge didn`t grant the temporary injunction, which is fine, because basically, a temporary injunction only states that the judge isn`t going to control exactly what the Miss Bexar County Organization does anymore. And I mean, they decided to get the crown and put it on Ashley Dixon`s head, and that`s fine.
As long as I get the opportunity to get in front of that jury and tell my story and be heard. That`s all I ever wanted from the start.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You did -- wait a second, I thought the whole thing has already been in court. Are you saying you`re going to appeal?
RAMIREZ: No, the judge granted us a jury trial.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok, explain this. I thought you lost the crown. Now you`re saying you haven`t lost the crown?
RAMIREZ: I have lost the crown. It was the Miss Bexar County Organization. They put the crown on Ashley Dixon`s head. The judge didn`t grant the temporary injunction but did grant a jury trial on March 14th.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you`re still going to trial on all of this?
RAMIREZ: Yes, it`s not over.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s not over. Ok, all right. Well, I think that`s good news for you, right? Now, you`re --
RAMIREZ: Yes, it is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you`ve also got a lawsuit as well?
RAMIREZ: Yes, I do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Or is that the lawsuit we`re talking about?
RAMIREZ: We`re actually suing Caroline Flores, the executive director for libel and slander.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Let me get into this then. Your lawsuit accuses Caroline Haggard Flores, who is the pageant`s director of orchestrating your downfall. So the question is, did the director plot to strip you of your title by exaggerating and lying?
Now, there have been rumors flying that Caroline has a criminal history. We called the Department of Federal Bureau of Prisons, and they say they have a record of somebody with the same name, age 61. We cannot be sure it`s the same woman, but we can tell you it matches her name and age, and this woman did serve time.
I can also tell you we called the pageant repeatedly to try to get their response to all of this, and we have been unable to get in touch with them.
But what is your point in claiming that the woman who was trying to get you and saying you have a dirty sash and you shouldn`t be the queen of this, has sort of a history of her own. What is your point in all that?
RAMIREZ: I mean she says that I have tarnished the organization. And I mean I feel that that`s wrong. If anything, she`s tarnishing it. I mean I`ve done nothing but work hard for this organization, and I have done so much for them, and it kind of hurts that they`re just trying to get rid of me and especially with someone of that kind of background.
I mean it was a shock to me. It was a real surprise when my lawyer told me about her background.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this is a shocking story all the way around. We`re just getting started. More surprises come after the break. Stay right where you are. We`ll have more of former Miss San Antonio in just a moment.
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RAMIREZ: I`m not doing this just for myself. I`m doing it for every queen that is to come after me. And I don`t want anybody to be treated like this. Nobody should have to go through this.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, beauty queen blowout, a teen queen fights for her title. She claims she was told she was told to lay off the tacos and drop 13 pounds or lose her crown.
Tonight a judge has stripped her of her title and given her tiara to the runner-up. But she`s fighting back. She`s back in court later this month. This isn`t over yet.
Domonique let me ask you about the whole weight thing. I mean you don`t look heavy to me. What did they tell you -- they told you something about lay off the tacos? That sounds very offensive to me.
RAMIREZ: Yes, it was. I just kind of took it in, and kind of saw it as constructive criticism. But when she came out on live radio and said it on that, that`s when I really got hurt. So I mean it was a really low blow.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you think their real reason is?
RAMIREZ: It was just -- it was a confrontation between my mother and Caroline Haggard Flores. To be honest, I kind of felt caught in between their argument. They got in an argument because I wanted to do a bridal extravaganza show. And I wanted to model in it and not be Miss San Antonio because I had a prior obligation to be a model in the show.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s my big issue tonight. Is this a blessing in disguise? Sometimes the very best thing for a beauty queen is to lose her crown in a dramatic way. Remember superstar Vanessa Williams? Ok, Vanessa lost her Miss America crown after naked photos of her surfaced, and they were later printed in "Penthouse" magazine. We all know now Vanessa is a huge, massive TV star. Would you ask me to remember the name of any other Miss America winner, I can`t. The only person I can name is Vanessa Williams.
So what are you going to do with this attention you`ve gotten? How are you going to turn it into something positive?
RAMIREZ: I mean I`m -- the way I`m making it positive is, I am just right now, for right now, my goal is to just make sure that everybody is warned, and that this doesn`t happen to anybody else. As far as using it to my benefit, I`m not looking for that. I mean if things come my way, great. But I`m not expecting it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you should. You should try to turn it around and use it for something positive. I`ve got to say, I`m not a fan of any of these pageants for precisely this reason. You should be evaluated, if you should be evaluated at all, as a three-dimensional person, not for your looks, not just for your weight, not just for your appearance. You`re beautiful anyway. But it should be three-dimensional. It should be --
RAMIREZ: Right. Miss America is a scholarship pageant.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s what I`m saying. It shouldn`t be scholarship pageants based on that criteria. That`s why I don`t buy in to this entire Miss America situation and this entire crown situation. Have you learned anything from this?
RAMIREZ: Oh, yes. I mean I`ve learned that you can`t trust anybody, even the people that you think you can -- even the people that are still close to you. I mean, I thought that these women were going to help me, and they were going to provide everything I needed to be successful. And they clearly didn`t do that. And they just brought me down instead. And it`s just something I didn`t expect from two professional women.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it looks like you`ve come out no worse for wear. You`re a beautiful young woman. Obviously very smart and articulate. And I think you`ve got a good future ahead of you. Don`t let them get you down.
More in a second.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, and here`s my issue. There are murderers and rapists running free. But we`re prosecuting a hero who wanted to save the environment.
Tim Dechristopher has just been found guilty of sabotaging a controversial land auction. In 2008, the feds were trying to lease some of Utah`s most exquisite land to the highest bidder so they could drill for oil. Tim bid it up too high and now he could end up behind bars for ten years.
This is an outrage. Not a single executive who presided over the worst financial crisis in the U.S. since the great depression has gone to jail, yet this man could for trying to preserve our precious land. Maybe if he was allowed to talk about why he did this in court to preserve nature, there would have been a different outcome. But he wasn`t allowed.
The fact is we only have one planet. Nature cannot speak for itself. And our government certainly is not defending nature right now.
I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell. And that`s my issue.
Nancy Grace up next.
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