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Joy Behar Page
Charlie Sheen, on the Edge?; The Reality of Joan and Melissa; The Stars of the Reality Show "Sister Wives" Discuss Their Life Together as a Family with One Husband, Four Wives, and 16 Children
Aired March 08, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Today is International Women`s Day. And in honor of that occasion, I want to invite all the hard working women on my crew to join me on camera for a little face time. Come on, ladies, it`s your moment. Yes.
Bobby, actual women. Not you. You look like Linda Tripp. Stop it. Some people will do anything to get on television. Get, get.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Charlie Sheen`s crazy reaction after being fired by Warner brothers. The troubled star takes to the roof of an office building with a machete and a bottle of something he calls tiger`s blood.
Then Hollywood icon, Joan Rivers joins Joy to talk about designer John Galliano`s anti-Semitic meltdown and her own reality show with daughter, Melissa.
And one man, four wives and 16 children. The stars of the show, "The Sister Wives", tell Joy about their unique lifestyle and their struggle to protect it.
That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: After getting fired from his job yesterday, Charlie Sheen celebrated by climbing a rooftop in Los Angeles with a machete in one hand and a bottle of so-called tiger blood in the other.
Watch the video from TMZ.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you excited about the prospects now that you`re done with "Two and a Half Men"?
CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: I`ve been saying free at last.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. He then went on to broadcast an eerie Internet video on Ustream. Here now with his take on all of this is Dr. Drew Pinsky, addiction specialist and the host of the Nightly HLN show, "Dr. Drew" premiering right here on HLN, April 4th.
Welcome back to my show, Dr. Drew. I`m happy to see you and you`re part of the family now. It`s great. Do you love it?
DR. DREW PINSKY, ADDICTION SPECIALIST: Thank you Joy. I appreciate it. That`s very kind of you.
BEHAR: Ok.
PINSKY: I do love it actually. Thank you.
BEHAR: So, you saw some of this. And there`s this crazy stream that he did where he`s basically, his hair is wild. I mean is this Sheen going over the edge? Is that what we`re watching?
PINSKY: Well, yes, it`s funny to me that people somehow believe that you have to know a patient intimately to understand they have a medical condition.
It`s really for me, no different than looking at a rash. If somebody who uncharacteristically has a grandiose belief that they have special powers, there`s a torrent of speech, there`s distractibility, flight of ideas, seemingly endless energy, hyper-sexuality -- those are all criteria for a condition called hypomania. It simply defines what hypomania is.
The other thing is for my patients that are similar to that that get into a hypomanic state, they typically don`t do drugs then. That`s when they don`t want to do drugs because they feel high all the time. So all this consternation about is Charlie on drugs, isn`t he, is completely meaningless.
All we can see here is that he`s in a hypomanic. He`s known to be a drug addict, I mean there`s no doubt that. He`s been treated multiple times. But the issue that`s driving him right now is a psychiatric condition called hypomania that can be induced by drugs and alcohol.
BEHAR: I see. So it`s even worse than (INAUDIBLE) condition; it`s a hypo condition as you put it. That`s interesting.
PINSKY: No, it`s hypo meaning just under mania is when they get to mania is when they lose touch with reality completely. And hypomania typically don`t stay the same. They flip over into a mania or they start coming down on the other side and that`s when they start using drugs and alcohol again.
BEHAR: I see. That`s interesting.
What do you make of the fact that he`s carrying a machete? I mean he`s always saying he wants to love violently. He uses the word "violent", a lot. Love violently, first of all, is an oxymoron. So, what is that about?
PINSKY: Yes. Well, there`s a lot of aggression and irritability oftentimes when they`re in a hypomanic state. What`s different about hypomanics is their view of the world begs no alternative. They believe they have a special understanding and special powers. And they don`t believe they need treatment.
None of them -- it`s rare that a hypomanic comes in and says, "Hey, I want help with this." It`s their employer that brings them in, their family brings them in because they become aggressive, and violent, erratic, and unpredictable.
BEHAR: You know a lot of people are finding fault with the media and the public for egging him on, but it`s really very difficult to turn away from a guy who`s acting like this. Who do you think should bear some of the blame for the media attention that he`s getting? Is it really the media?
PINSKY: Well, it`s disturbing to me to see his story juxtaposed with the story of Libya, say. I mean it`s problematic, let`s face. But the fact is, it is infectious. It is interesting. It`s natural to be curious about this stuff.
What`s disturbing for me when I watch it is the people that are actually are around him. The sycophants around him who are co-signing and accelerating and actually egging him on rather than containing him and getting him to proper care. These are the people that when things go bad, should be held accountable because it`s not going to go well. It`s not going to go well.
BEHAR: No. So what do you think -- what`s going to be the end for this guy? Is this going to continue on television do you think, or no?
PINSKY: He looks like he`s heading a little towards more -- towards mania right now. And boy, if he does, you`re going to hear about the police coming out frequently. You`re going to hear about violent behaviors. You`re going to hear about drug arrests. That`s just where this kind of goes. It tends not to get better by itself.
BEHAR: Ok. All right. Thanks very much, Drew.
PINSKY: It`s very sad. It`s very difficult.
BEHAR: It is a little.
PINSKY: Thank you Joy.
BEHAR: Thank you very much. And remember, Dr. Drew`s nightly show premieres April 4th on HLN.
Now, I want to bring in my friends, Joan and Melissa Rivers, co-stars of "Joan and Melissa, Joan Knows Best?" -- with a question mark.
The season finale airs March 15th at 9:00 p.m. on WE. Welcome to the show , my dears.
JOAN RIVERS, COMEDIAN: Glad to see you again.
MELISSA RIVERS, DAUGHTER OF JOAN RIVERS: HI.
BEHAR: So nice to see you both.
Now, we were just talking to Charlie, as you know. He`s on the roof with a machete. What do you make of this?
J. RIVERS: What do I make of this.
BEHAR: Is he crazy? Is he bipolar? Is he going to jump? What?
M. RIVERS: I`m actually just happen to be reading a book, where they talk about hypomania today and I love Dr. Drew. I`ve known him forever. Whatever he says is right. As far as I`m concerned, yes, that would be a good diagnosis.
But I have to tell you, Charlie`s very smart, very funny and I think at this point, he`s amusing himself. And if the guy thinks -- he used the word umbrage on TV and correctly. Who uses umbrage anymore and what`s that?
J. RIVERS: I think he`s very (INAUDIBLE) because tomorrow is going to be hash Wednesday. I just think he`s gone.
BEHAR: He`s a ratings magnet. Let him move in with you and Melissa.
J. RIVERS: Is that the movie, "Inception", you don`t know what the hell is going on, but you`re waiting for the end.
M. RIVERS: This is the best entertainment and he`s smarter than all of us combined or it`s the biggest meltdown since Chernobyl. It`s one of the two.
BEHAR: But I mean is he going to kill -- is Chuck Lorre going to kill him? That`s what I want to know.
That`s an interesting dynamic.
M. RIVERS: That`s a very volatile dynamic. And the more that comes out, you realize there was so much tension behind the scenes.
BEHAR: Why would that guy go on television with those vanity cards and talk about his show? He`s a producer, get it off the screen
J. RIVERS: Oh, everybody wants to be on the screen. Come on.
BEHAR: I know that but to do that? I thought it was ridiculous.
M. RIVERS: Just when you think it didn`t get any better, this story, it always does. With Access: Hollywood live, which is actually the day I do Fashion Fridays, that was the day that he announced that he was Jewish. What is that?
J. RIVERS: And he was wearing a Galliano jacket.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But I mean is he really half Jewish?
M. RIVERS: Apparently so. On the mother`s side.
BEHAR: And his father`s side is from Spain?
M. RIVERS: Yes. Or Puerto Rican.
BEHAR: Emilio Estevez and Martin Sheen are Puerto Rican.
J. RIVERS: I`ve seen them in the (INAUDIBLE).
He walks past my window every morning and I go, get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of here. Every --
BEHAR: But I mean, do you think he made an anti-Semitic comment when he said Haim Levine or whatever he said? I don`t think so.
M. RIVERS: No.
J. RIVERS: I do.
BEHAR: You do?
J. RIVERS: I`m sorry.
BEHAR: I mean compared to Mel Gibson and Galliano, with their real anti-Semitism.
J. RIVERS: It depends. And he said and my producer, Haim Levine, he was "Haim". He did.
M. RIVERS: Honestly, I didn`t read it as anti-Semitic and I`m very sensitive to those kind of things because in context I thought it was -- it was actually kind of funny and his reply was, you can also call me Carlos Estevez, which is my real name. And my publicist is Jewish, and my (INAUDIBLE) is Jewish and my best friend is Jewish --
BEHAR: Some of my best friends are Jewish.
M. RIVERS: And my ex-wife is Jewish. And my soon-to-be ex-wife is Jewish.
BEHAR: The one he held a knife to the throat?
M. RIVERS: Yes, her.
J. RIVERS: That`s why.
BEHAR: They say Jewish girls are smart. Not that smart.
J. RIVERS: Smart enough to get a check.
M. RIVERS: And she`s not on a reality show.
J. RIVERS: Not smart.
M. RIVERS: She doesn`t have a Paris Hilton reality show.
J. RIVERS: You wouldn`t sleep with a whack-a-doodle for a year and be taking care of the rest of your life, Charlie -- absolutely.
BEHAR: But there seems to be a little bit of an uprising in the anti- Semitism. You noticed that?
M. RIVERS: Yes.
BEHAR: Around the world -- some is in the states, like in the Arab states where they teach you to hate the Jews. But some of them is just like individuals --
M. RIVERS: Yes, me and my relatives.
BEHAR: Yes, what`s going on.
M. RIVERS: I found John Galliano thing very disturbing. Because that was someone who was being dead serious.
BEHAR: Well, he was drunk. Oh, in vino veritas.
J. RIVERS: Exactly. When they`re drunk is when the truth comes out.
BEHAR: So, it is no excuse for it.
J. RIVERS: What`s his name, Mel Gibson? When he`s drunk -- that`s when your guard is down.
BEHAR: Exactly. Most people when they`re drunk, just act drunk. The say silly things. They don`t start screaming, "I hate Jews" and "I love Hitler".
What kind of behavior is that.
J. RIVERS: Hitler was a great dancer.
BEHAR: Yes. That`s true. A snappy dancer.
M. RIVERS: I know.
BEHAR: Snappy. But you know maybe you could do a reality show with Mel Gibson and John Galliano, Charlie Sheen the three of them.
M. RIVERS: That would be brilliant.
BEHAR: That would be brilliant.
J. RIVERS: You know Dr. Drew right now is dialing and going "Celebrity Rehab 12".
BEHAR: I love it.
M. RIVERS: That you know.
BEHAR: Ok, next. Will the Donald run for president and wouldn`t it be great to hear him tell Gadhafi, you`re fired?
We`ll be right back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up later, one man, four wives. The very big family from the reality show "Sister Wives" tells Joy how they make it work.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Joan and Melissa Rivers. Ok, let`s talk about Donald Trump for just a minute because he might run for president. What do you think?
J. RIVERS: I worked with him. What he did on February 1st, I think he could straighten the whole damn world.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: You do?
M. RIVERS: Oh yes.
J. RIVERS: I think Donald, who said, we`re doing it and that`s it.
BEHAR: Wow.
J. RIVERS: And I think he`s smart as a whip.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Well, at first, at first on "The View," I mentioned, I thought it was a joke.
J. RIVERS: Yes.
BEHAR: I said, he`s trying to promote his show. And I got a call from his office saying, no, no, no, no, no. He means it.
M. RIVERS: Oh yes. (INAUDIBLE) walk in and be like, really? Ok, we`re not doing this deal, goodbye.
BEHAR: Yes, yes. Well, I don`t know, I mean, I don`t know. I mean, I --
J. RIVERS: I don`t want to hear about Egypt because I am his guest.
M. RIVERS: Yes. Yes, yes.
BEHAR: Well, he was unhappy with Bush. He called him -- he called him a disaster. He doesn`t like Obama for whatever reasons. So let`s see what he can do.
M. RIVERS: I think this country needs a CEO.
BEHAR: You do?
M. RIVERS: Yes or at least a CFO.
BEHAR: Well, he doesn`t have any foreign policy. All right, never mind, we`ll never go into this.
J. RIVERS: Never mind.
BEHAR: Let him come on my show and tell me why he wants to run.
M. RIVERS: Exactly. Let him balance the books.
BEHAR: I`d love to hear from him.
All right now, the show that you`re doing, the -- the reality show, let`s look at a clip.
J. RIVERS: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. RIVERS: Melissa, this is great. Trampy, but not skanky. Look at this. Look at this. Oh Melissa --
M. RIVERS: What?
J. RIVERS: Viagra on a hanger.
M. RIVERS: Mom.
J. RIVERS: This and the motorcycle jacket.
M. RIVERS: Oh, my God, I`m going to throw up.
J. RIVERS: And this is having, I`m glad to pay for. We will share the MTV Awards.
M. RIVERS: Oh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Why are you commenting on her underwear?
J. RIVERS: Because she`s living with a very nice young man and from my vantage point, you have to keep on looking sexy --
BEHAR: Yes.
J. RIVERS: -- and looking hot.
BEHAR: At least for five years.
J. RIVERS: And -- exactly and -- they`ve all moved in and they`re all comfy and cozy. And we`ve got Cooper there.
BEHAR: Yes.
J. RIVERS: And it`s -- I think it`s a little too much of a family.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Well, yes --
M. RIVERS: But what I`m wearing under my clothes isn`t your business. Oh, my God, I was -- show us?
J. RIVERS: Yes and you should be wearing hot stuff. Birdies, chickies, peek a boos.
BEHAR: You know, you`re like (INAUDIBLE) with great gardens have favorable -- a burlesque, duo.
J. RIVERS: Yes.
M. RIVERS: Yes. It is a little --
BEHAR: She`s like big and little Edie.
J. RIVERS: Isn`t that --
(CROSSTALK)
M. RIVERS: -- or Addams Family, I`m not quite sure.
BEHAR: Ok, so now what`s it like living together? Because you are in the house together. Do you like it?
J. RIVERS: No, we don`t.
M. RIVERS: No.
BEHAR: No. You don`t want to be with them, no?
J. RIVERS: I`m -- I`m thrilled to be near her, I`m thrilled to be near Cooper, but I live in this ugly little guest room. I lie down and I think I`m taking an MRI.
BEHAR: I think I saw that --
M. RIVERS: Thank you and it`s a guest room.
J. RIVERS: Look at you, look at you, you`re so excited.
M. RIVERS: I do, because it was like, it`s a guest room.
J. RIVERS: Chair of your own.
M. RIVERS: Ok, it`s a guest room, it is not meant to be a residence for a guest.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Maybe you should get a guest house. Can`t you build on the property?
M. RIVERS: You know, no.
J. RIVERS: Maybe --
M. RIVERS: No. No, I couldn`t build on my property there is no property left to build on. It`s not like you know -- unlike a man.
BEHAR: Houses are -- houses are cheap now. Move to the valley.
M. RIVERS: Oh yes, houses are cheap. Now if we live ok, that`s not going to oblige.
J. RIVERS: But it`s been fine, the only thing is I`ve learned I cannot treat her like a child. My mother until the day she died treated me like a child. I was 52 years old, she would make me sit in her lap.
BEHAR: This is too much.
J. RIVERS: We go shopping she`ll say by at large you`re going to grow next year. I at least -- I at least, have respect for your boundaries.
M. RIVERS: Oh really. You have no respect for my boundaries.
J. RIVERS: To what point, to what point?
BEHAR: I think that the arguing that you do is what makes the show fun.
J. RIVERS: Yes.
M. RIVERS: It is. It`s mothers and daughters.
BEHAR: Yes, I know.
M. RIVERS: And congratulations you`re now --
BEHAR: I am.
M. RIVERS: A grandmother.
BEHAR: I`m a grandparent and you have an adorable child.
M. RIVERS: Yes I do.
BEHAR: I mean, do we have a picture of the baby, Cooper?
M. RIVERS: No, I don`t think we --
BEHAR: How old is he now, Cooper?
M. RIVERS: He`s 10.
J. RIVERS: But allegedly he`s you`re child.
M. RIVERS: Allegedly he`s my child.
BEHAR: I thought you have -- what happened?
J. RIVERS: Somebody is -- some moron gave me a $5,000 reward.
BEHAR: Yes. Really.
J. RIVERS: To find out --
M. RIVERS: We got a phone call from what was it called? Vulture, that they have two very reliable sources who are running around claiming that Cooper is an actor and not actually the real Cooper.
BEHAR: Oh anybody could make up anything.
M. RIVERS: Right, I`d like to know if they already calling and they`ve reached out to a lot of personal people of my life and friends in my life and I would like to know they said two extremely reliable close sources. I`d love to know who they are.
J. RIVERS: You know all you have to do is get a picture maybe for a plastic surgery. And after seeing that --
BEHAR: You could see he looks like you.
J. RIVERS: Yes I can see where it came from.
BEHAR: Yes, I see.
M. RIVERS: You are operating $5,000 because it`s absurd.
BEHAR: But what -- what`s the $5,000 going to really do?
J. RIVERS: I want to know, find out who did this.
BEHAR: You need to find out who did this?
M. RIVERS: These sources are that -- that have caused such a -- a drama.
BEHAR: So I mean, are you going to be forced to do a DNA test or something? That`s crazy.
M. RIVERS: No, it`s my son.
J. RIVERS: I am going to change the will, who have I allegedly been taking to Disneyland.
M. RIVERS: For the last ten years.
J. RIVERS: I`m going nuts.
M. RIVERS: Yes.
J. RIVERS: And a little rotten kid I don`t know.
M. RIVERS: Yes apparently.
BEHAR: Exactly. I mean, really. You`d have to pay the kid, this kid does it for free.
M. RIVERS: I mean, you had to admit that`s absurd. And it`s just -- and again, it`s just the ridiculousness of it.
BEHAR: So how old did you say he was?
M. RIVERS: Ten.
J. RIVERS: Ten.
BEHAR: He`s 10 years old already.
M. RIVERS: He turned 10 in December.
BEHAR: My little baby is -- my little Luca Joseph he`s only eight days old.
M. RIVERS: Oh.
BEHAR: Do you want to see his picture?
M. RIVERS: Yes, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: No not yet.
J. RIVERS: Go ahead.
BEHAR: Look, look at him. Look at that baby, is that cute?
J. RIVERS: That was adorable.
M. RIVERS: But you know what, every baby, no matter what race, gender, anything, they all look like angry little old Jewish men for the first couple of days. It doesn`t matter, you know they could say, where`s my soup?
BEHAR: Yes when they were making poops.
M. RIVERS: Yes.
J. RIVERS: Were you there at the -- at the birth?
BEHAR: No, she didn`t want me in the room. I told her, that a friend of mine, I didn`t say who it was who was your mother, at dinner she said tell your daughter you have to be in the room. So I went home that night and I said, you know, a friend of mine told me I should be in the room. What friend? Who told you that? So I wasn`t in the room.
M. RIVERS: Oh I`m sorry.
J. RIVERS: It was great.
M. RIVERS: That was great.
J. RIVERS: It was great.
BEHAR: She didn`t want me there because her husband was there. There were two gynecologists, an anesthesiologist and the nurse, and the room was the size of this table.
J. RIVERS: Yes.
BEHAR: So no.
J. RIVERS: Yes, it was great because you really see them come out.
BEHAR: Yes.
J. RIVERS: And you know and then there`s the cord and they cut that cord, I -- I went -- I was so excited.
BEHAR: Yes.
J. RIVERS: My mother never cut the cord with me; for two years I was following her around.
BEHAR: That has got to hurt.
But I mean do you have any parenting advice I can relay to my daughter for the infant?
M. RIVERS: Yes. Even though I know you`re going to claim you`re not going to get involved, just remember when you`re dealing with your mother and she`s telling you how to raise your child, that this too shall pass.
BEHAR: So, I shouldn`t give her any advice.
M. RIVERS: No, just --
BEHAR: Even though I know better. You`re diapering the wrong end.
J. RIVERS: You have to stay --
(CROSSTALK)
M. RIVERS: Wait until your advice is solicited. And then offer it gently.
BEHAR: All right. I will wait to be asked. Look, I stayed out of the birthing room; I took your advice on that.
Sit tight, we`ll have more with these two fabulous, fabulous females when we come right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I am back with Joan and Melissa Rivers, the stars of We`s reality show "Joan and Melissa, Joan Knows Best".
Now, I understand, Melissa, that you would like your mother to stop with the cutting of the face.
M. RIVERS: Yes, I would.
BEHAR: And she won`t do it.
M. RIVERS: No, she won`t. But it`s nice because now, I`m getting backed up by different doctors saying they won`t do it. So I just feel like at one point, why are you going to take these unnecessary health risks?
J. RIVERS: I`ll go to Mexico for help.
M. RIVERS: That`s a really smart thing to do.
BEHAR: Brazil is better than Mexico.
M. RIVERS: That`s a really good idea.
BEHAR: There`s drug wars in Mexico. Why would you go there?
J. RIVERS: I`ll go somewhere to find a doctor who says yes. Charlie Sheen. He had a machete.
BEHAR: But you`re not going to do it anymore.
J. RIVERS: If I need it. And I`m not doing anything because at one point, you know this, you look and you go, oh, my god, this looks terrible and then I`ll go find someone that went two years to medical school and two years to Tijuana.
M. RIVERS: Oh, no. You don`t.
BEHAR: Another thing I heard about you is that you want to do "dancing with the Stars" as a couple. Mother and daughter?
M. RIVERS: No. My mother wants --
(CROSSTALK)
M. RIVERS: Let`s just do a moment here -- my mother wants us to do "Dancing with the Stars" as a couple.
BEHAR: Why?
M. RIVERS: I do not want to do "Dancing with the Stars".
BEHAR: What is this about?
J. RIVERS: I think it would be so much fun. We can wear matching outfits and every time we had to do like a big dip, she could just take over.
BEHAR: Crazy.
J. RIVERS: I think it would work great, I think it would pick that show up.
M. RIVERS: I`m trying to move away from that whole great gardens thing because I actually do have a grip on reality. It might be a loose one, but it`s a grip.
BEHAR: What about this -- speaking about a grip on reality -- what about this thing I read that you think the house is haunted? Is that Melissa`s house?
M. RIVERS: My mom`s house.
BEHAR: The one here. The palace of Versailles? I`ve been there.
J. RIVERS: Yes, absolutely haunted.
BEHAR: By Louis the XV?
J. RIVERS: No, by the woman that lived there, who was JPMorgan`s daughter.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: And what? What makes you think it`s haunted?
J. RIVERS: We had ghost busters come in from NYU for three months.
BEHAR: Oh, sure. NYU.
J. RIVERS: And they did all kinds of tests and then they cleared it out.
M. RIVERS: Apparently, when my mom first moved in, all the neighbors one by one started telling these stories. Don`t be alarmed if you heard this. Don`t be alarmed if this happen. That`s just so and so. You call the parapsychology peeps.
BEHAR: What were you hearing?
J. RIVERS: You will hear noises. Doors are closing. Cold. The dogs aren`t going -- everything. But I`m very superstitious.
BEHAR: Don`t you have a lot of help? Maybe they`re slamming the doors.
(CROSSTALK)
M. RIVERS: They kind of scare her out. And that`s going to (INAUDIBLE).
J. RIVERS: I`m -- I mean I have certain things I just won`t do. I will never -- it`s bad luck to spit in a fan. I`ll never do. But to walk under a black cat --- certain things.
BEHAR: Under a ladder.
J. RIVERS: If Kirstie Alley is sitting on it.
BEHAR: She`ll go after you for that. The woman does not take a joke on herself. Only likes to spew it out, so be careful.
J. RIVERS: I`m really worried.
BEHAR: I know.
All right. Thanks for coming and doing this.
J. RIVERS: I love you.
BEHAR: I love you too Joan.
The season finale of "Joan and Melissa, Joan Knows Best", airs Tuesday night March 15th at 9:00 p.m. on We, the women`s network.
M. RIVERS: WETV, Women`s Entertainment Television.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKE ANDERSON, HLN HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Tonight on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT", the stunning inside story behind firing Charlie Sheen and how Sheen is striking back now. 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, on HLN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOY BEHAR, CNN HN HOST: Kody is one man with four wives and 16 kids. You may have seen his appearances on talk shows like this one, which unfortunately led to a Utah state investigation for felony bigamy. Here`s a scene from the hit reality show "Sister Wives." Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to know how you feel. Is anybody worried or concerned?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody was asking me if there`s jealousy. There is an investigation being done. That does not mean he`s going to jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Here now to talk about their polygamist family in the new season of the TLC series "Sister Wives" are Kody Brown and his four wives, Meri, Janelle, Christine, and Robyn. Hi, guys, welcome back to my show. We had so much fun last time. Glad to have you back. You`re still married to all these women.
No more kids since I saw you last. Taking a little rest, Kody?
KODY BROWN, POLYGAMIST HUSBAND: Sure.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: So, what`s been going on since I saw you last? I know there`s an investigation. You`ve become big reality stars, right, and you moved to Nevada. So, tell me what`s going on.
KODY BROWN: Well, a lot of stuff.
BEHAR: OK, remind me how long you`ve lived together. Meri is your first wife. The one you are legally married to. How long?
MERI BROWN, Kody`S FIRST WIFE: Almost 21 years.
BEHAR: It`s been 21 years, Janelle 18, Christine 17. And the newest addition?
ROBYN BROWN, Kody`S FOURTH WIFE: Nine months.
BEHAR: OK. And you`re being investigated for bigamy in Utah. The way I understand bigamy is you have to be legally married to more than one wife. You`re only married to Meri. So what`s the deal?
MERI BROWN: All we know about the investigation is stuff we`ve read about in the papers. We`ve never been contacted directly.
BEHAR: So there`s a criminal investigation, I heard, going on, that you violated the Utah bigamy law.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Apparently.
BEHAR: You know nothing else?
KODY BROWN: We know exactly what was written in the papers and we know nothing else other than that. You`d have to talk to a lawyer and understand their speculations on it to understand more than we understand.
BEHAR: But they must have come to you and said, we`re investigating you.
KODY BROWN: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is all this uncertainty.
BEHAR: Something must have scared you because you moved to Nevada. Why?
JANELLE BROWN, Kody`S THIRD WIFE: First off, Kody has been talking about moving to Nevada for years. He has always loved it. We have all the factors of -- surely the investigation is one of the factors. We also talked about like the business opportunities, the housing, the real estate opportunities.
KODY BROWN: Vegas is in a slump, and Vegas always returns. What a great time to go and get affordable housing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And when you need four homes --
BEHAR: We`ll get to that in a second. The Utah law says a person can be found guilty by cohabiting. You don`t have to be married. There`s a law on the books.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It`s possible, also, that Utah, the state that you`ve embarrassed them a bit by making it seem it`s a bigamy state, and they don`t like that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have no idea.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody`s really talked to us about it.
BEHAR: You need to speak to a lawyer because I know more than you do.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have one. You can talk to him.
BEHAR: I mean, when you left Utah, were you a little bit scared that you might have to go to jail, Kody? You`re the perpetrator here. From
(CROSSTALK)
KODY BROWN: Yes. I never saw this as being a perpetrator. A choice out of faith and love, a religious choice, I made a choice to --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we made choices.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just wanted to be a family. That`s it.
BEHAR: Can you go back to Utah without being arrested?
KODY BROWN: No. If we went back, there would be more investigations, I guess.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don`t even know.
BEHAR: You need to tell TLC to get a lawyer on this and watch out for you.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: So let`s talk about the houses that you all have. You all have four houses in this family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We do now.
BEHAR: In Nevada. What do you do for a living, Kody?
KODY BROWN: I`m a salesman, but we all work.
BEHAR: You work?
JANELLE BROWN: Well now, in Nevada, we have business opportunities and things we`re working on right now. We just did --
BEHAR: They pay you nothing?
KODY BROWN: Nothing.
BEHAR: They pay you per segment?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They compensate us.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: He doesn`t discuss the investigation, he doesn`t discuss the money. What would you like to talk about?
KODY BROWN: Our kids and our family.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. But I still don`t understand how you paid for four houses. In that show "Big Love" --
MERI BROWN: We all work.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It`s very similar to your situation.
KODY BROWN: He`s got three wives. That`s all he`s got common with me. And he`s a salesman.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about the kids. And how are they handling all the attention?
CHRISTINE BROWN: It`s actually been positive for them. My son and my daughters are doing awesome in school. They`re getting to be themselves and talk about the family openly.
BEHAR: The kids don`t tease him when they say "I`m got four mommies"?
KODY BROWN: They`re fairly proud about it. And because they`ve come affront with our coming out, they`ve been up front. So our children have this confidence. Plus in the school system there`s 20 kids. Who`s going to pick on somebody that has 19 brothers and sisters.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are 16.
BEHAR: How many do you want, and you said none. That`s what you call a Freudian slip.
(LAUGHTER)
MERI BROWN: OK, true story. Aspen is almost 16 years old. And in her social studies class, they were asking how many kids in your family. It comes to her and she says I have 15 brothers and sisters. She`s proud of her family and it`s good for her to be that open.
Children like me, Robyn, we couldn`t say how many siblings we had, so for her to say 15, we loved it. They were like, whoa 15, hey, we know about you. You`re on sister wives. She`s loves it.
BEHAR: The liberty factor supersedes the weirdness, I think.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: We`ll be right back in just a minute with more of this whatever it is.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KODY BROWN: Kids are being taught tolerance in school now. And I remember growing up in school and being taught the value of civil rights and tolerance. It`s not just taught now. It`s a morality.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m grateful for that.
KODY BROWN: I am too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was a clip from the new season of TLC`s reality show "Sister Wives" about a polygamist family. And I`m back with Kody and his menage a quatre.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Do you think of your wives as goddesses like Charlie Sheen?
KODY BROWN: No comment.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: He is like two, his two goddesses, you have four.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are married to him.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I know you have religious ceremonies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s very serious.
BEHAR: You`re not legally married.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
BEHAR: Would you like to be? Would you prefer that?
(CROSSTALK)
KODY BROWN: I`ll be honest. If I had my choice, yes, I would.
BEHAR: Why?
KODY BROWN: For credibility.
BEHAR: You want them to have claim on you. Why?
KODY BROWN: Because I love them, and I want to make sure they`re taken care of.
BEHAR: But they`re taking care of themselves, right?
KODY BROWN: Yes.
BEHAR: The fact you`re only legally married to one, that`s one issue, when your kids go to school, that you`re living in sin according to the church. How does that impact you at all?
KODY BROWN: I`m not necessarily going to categorize myself like that, so I`ll just tell my children, no, we see it this way.
BEHAR: And they just go along with that?
KODY BROWN: They are susceptible to peer pressure as well.
BEHAR: How much jealousy is there with you girls, because I don`t even know you and I`m jealous?
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sure, there are good days and bad days.
BEHAR: What is it about? Getting more time with Kody?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stuff like that.
BEHAR: Selfishness?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It comes down to your own insecurities.
BEHAR: It`s only natural to be jealous when a woman is monopolizing your husband.
JANELLE BROWN: See, I don`t feel like these guys are monopolizing him at all. I feel like I`m being treated well. My life is rich because I have my sister wives.
BEHAR: So you don`t need your time with Kody anymore because you have your sister wives.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s true.
(CROSSTALK)
MERI BROWN: I don`t see him really sit down ever and watch TV. He doesn`t have a daddy disappears too. He`s really --
BEHAR: Hands-on.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Tell us about disciplining the children. We talk a lot on the show about disciplining children. I`m against spanking, any brutality against children, even if it`s just a little spanking, I don`t agree with any of it. Where do you come out on that?
CHRISTINE BROWN: I love your point of view. It`s wonderful. I like a logical approach to this. The consequence should be related to what the problem is. If they`re mean to someone, they can take on chores. If they`re fighting between themselves, they can do a chore later.
BEHAR: What if they steal something?
KODY BROWN: Verbal discipline -- this is wrong.
CHRISTINE BROWN: There are penalties.
(CROSSTALK)
ROBYN BROWN: My little girl likes to wear dresses every day. If she does something wrong, I say, you have to wear pants.
BEHAR: You`re really tough.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
KODY BROWN: It`s like video games. Listen, if you don`t behave, you lose your privileges.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re very much a no violence family.
BEHAR: You don`t go for hot saucing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, that`s wrong. We don`t believe in that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Is this medication involved here?
(LAUGHTER)
Last time, you told me that marriage is not about a sex. I don`t want to bring up sex, but there are 16 kids involved here so we know there has been some sex in this group.
KODY BROWN: We don`t talk about that. Stay away from the bedroom for the sake of having some kind of sanctity for our lives.
BEHAR: In public you don`t want to talk about that.
KODY BROWN: I wouldn`t tell me best friend.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don`t talk about it among our sister wives.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s private between me and my husband.
BEHAR: Each one of you has your own thing.
KODY BROWN: I have to have them trust me. If we were two buddies, I would not tell you a thing about it. I might tell you about a fight or argument, but not about that. They need to trust me.
BEHAR: And you trust him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Even you, Robyn, the new wife?
ROBYN BROWN: Oh, my gosh, yes. And I have been through it. I had a really difficult marriage in the past and I wouldn`t have married again if it wasn`t the right guy, wasn`t trustworthy, who treated his wives right.
BEHAR: I can see why a lot of people might like this. First of all, it takes the pressure off one. So if you`re not jealous, particularly sexual jealousy is usually what happens. If you don`t have that, it`s like, OK, not tonight. Josephine, take him tonight.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: It`s like, please, go to bed, say you have a headache. Go talk to Janelle.
(LAUGHTER)
KODY BROWN: It isn`t like that.
BEHAR: I know. You want the kids to have a polygamist lifestyle?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If it makes them happy.
MERI BROWN: Every parent hopes your child will understand the way you think the universe works.
BEHAR: The thing about your show, I was watching it last night, most of these shows rely on nasty behavior. Yours does not have conflict in it.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You didn`t watch that episode?
BEHAR: Generally speaking, there`s not a lot of fighting. It`s talking to each other, we`re cooking, daddy`s home. So how do you explain the success of the show? What is it about your show that everyone watches it?
KODY BROWN: We are a close society before we opened it up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s the curiosity.
ROBYN BROWN: I really like the idea that the public wants to watch a family rather than the fight.
BEHAR: How wrong you are, Robyn.
(LAUGHTER)
MERI BROWN: We have a lot of people come up to us and say we love your family. You`re all about the love. OK, great.
BEHAR: It`s nice to see everybody gets along. I`m just wondering how long that can sustain. There has to be some hair-pulling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`ve been doing it for 16 years.
BEHAR: I got to go. It`s always a pleasure to see you guys. The new season of "Sister Wives" premieres Sunday, March 13 at 9:00 pm on TLC. We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: With me to talk about the criminal bigamy investigation into the Brown family is Ken Driggs, lawyer and polygamy historian. Welcome to the show. Now, the Brown family practices polygamy as part of their religious beliefs. Isn`t that protected under the freedom of religion? Personally, I say leave them alone. They`re not bothering anybody. What do you say?
KEN DRIGGS, POLYGAMY HISTORIAN: I agree with you completely. There are lots of other problems for law enforcement besides these people.
BEHAR: That`s right.
OK, Kody brown is legally married to only one woman. Her name is Meri, but he calls the other his wives. Does Utah have a case against him? He`s not literally committing bigamy in the legal sense.
DRIGGS: There are different kinds of bigamy statutes around the country. Utah, Texas, and a couple of other states have a statute that seems to give the state complete control of the term marriage. So conceivably he could be prosecuted.
BEHAR: I see. So just because he says he`s married to these women, he could be prosecuted in Utah, yes?
DRIGGS: In Utah and in Texas and a couple of other states. The vast majority of the states would not.
BEHAR: One of the reasons I think that the Browns moved out of Utah to Las Vegas is because of the Utah investigation charges that are being -- the investigation that`s taking place against them. Can charges be filed against them in Utah, even though they`re in Nevada?
DRIGGS: Yes. Once you go from one jurisdiction to another, it doesn`t mean that you cannot longer be prosecuted. The state where the alleged crime is supposed to have taken place can ask you be extradited back to their state for a prosecution.
BEHAR: Wow. That seems a little harsh.
DRIGGS: I can`t imagine that they`re really going to do it.
BEHAR: Why not?
DRIGGS: I think they have much bigger fish to fry. These are all consenting adults. There`s no allegations of minors. There`s no allegations of any other kind of misconduct. These are people who have agreed to this relationship, nobody is being deceived. I just think this is going to be an embarrassment for Utah if they pursue it.
BEHAR: Do you think the reason they even brought these charges up is because they were an embarrassment to Utah in the first place because they were on this reality show? That`s my theory about why they even started up with them.
DRIGGS: I agree completely. If they didn`t have this reality show, the state of Utah could care less. They don`t have enough jail space for the polygamists they got.
BEHAR: So you don`t think Nevada will launch an investigation, right?
DRIGGS: I don`t think Nevada will even want to look at them.
BEHAR: And so let me ask you one question before you go. If they did prosecute, how much jail time would this guy have to do?
DRIGGS: Well, it`s a felony conceivably. I believe this felony carries up to five years in the state of Utah. But again, even if they did prosecute him and they were convicted, I can`t imagine somebody would justify custody time for an offense like this. I just think it doesn`t make any sense from a public policy standpoint.
BEHAR: So it looks like they`re off the hook, which is fine.
DRIGGS: I think that`s probably true.
BEHAR: Thanks very much. And thank you for watching. Goodnight, everybody.
END
