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Interview With New York Congressman Peter King; Wisconsin Likely to Curb Collective Bargaining; Congress Holds Controversial Muslim Radicalization Hearings

Aired March 10, 2011 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We are not going too far from any of the top stories of the day.

But I also want to remind all of you, any minute now, we could see a vote here in the Wisconsin State Assembly on the newest measure to cut, to entirely eliminate those collective bargaining powers. The Senate voted on it late, late last night without any of those 14 Democrats present.

I want you to take a look at what happened when protesters showed up at the state capitol in Madison this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Let us in, let us in, let us in, let us in!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: "Let us in," they chant.

Well, coming up, I'm going to be speaking with one of those holdout Democrats in just a bit.

Also, the head of the U.S. intelligence says Gadhafi not likely to back down anytime soon. We're going to go live to Nic Robertson on the ground in Libya shortly.

Also, we're all over that controversial hearing, sort of picking up where Ali left off, in Washington on how some Muslims in America are being radicalized. Congressman Peter King called for today's hearing. He will be joining me in just a couple of minutes.

But, first, I want to begin here with a story that you are outraged by just as much as I am. I'm talking about that little girl in tiny Cleveland, Texas. She told her principal that she was gang- raped. Well, now her town has been rocked by these allegations that 18 men and schoolboys, possibly more here, assaulted this 11-year-old child, a child. Think about that for a moment.

The suspects, 18 of them, range in age from middle schoolers all the way up to a 27-year-old. Some of them allegedly recorded this gang rape on their cell phones. And they spread it around school. Court documents paint a brutal picture as to what happened as one young man after another forced that sixth-grade girl into hours of sex.

But the defense says the girl is not completely innocent. They say she consented, she wasn't kidnapped.

And that is precisely why I want to bring in Lisa Falkenberg with "The Houston Chronicle."

And, Lisa, I tell you what. I want to read if I can here just the first couple of lines of your article this morning. "It doesn't matter if she wore makeup or she hung out with older boys at the playground, as some have claimed, or that she bragged about sex on her Facebook page. All that matters is that she is 11."

You say the conversation about this story has gone in the wrong direction. Why?

LISA FALKENBERG, "THE HOUSTON CHRONICLE": Yes.

You know, I think the only thing that can make a crime this horrific more horrific is by blaming the victim. And I think that's what we have seen. You know, it's in the gossip through town. And it's in the comments of some of -- well, at least one of the defense attorneys.

And while you know, I understand as a defense attorney this is a hard case to handle, there's no excuse for going after the girl. She's 11 years old. And she cannot consent under Texas law even if she wanted to.

BALDWIN: That is correct. And I think sort of echoing what you're saying, this is the fourth day we have been on this story today. And I want to just replay what a woman I spoke with just yesterday, a woman who lives in the community, is saying and also some of the neighbors. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is the deal on the parents? They have an 11-year-old, you know, that's hanging out like that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's really hard for our families right now. That's all I can say. It's just really hard for our families that we're going through.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think about that happening in your neighborhood. How would you feel?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, Lisa, is that the dominant conversation in Cleveland, Texas, so many people wondering about these young men, instead of this 11-year-old?

FALKENBERG: Right, and there's also, you know, some discussion on the parents and certainly that's a discussion that we need to have. There's a reason why the girl is in state custody. Child Protective Services have taken her into custody. She's no longer with her parents.

You have to wonder, what was she doing alone? Why would she go with these folks? There are lots of questions. There should have been somebody there with her. But there is an effort to change the conversation and to talk about this little girl's Facebook page or who she was hanging out with or how dark her makeup was.

BALDWIN: Yes.

FALKENBERG: It does not matter.

BALDWIN: Well, we're having you on today to help bring about a change in the conversation. And I want to talk about law.

Even a Texas congressman, Ted Poe, spoke out saying -- quote -- "Under Texas law, ignorance is no defense, especially when it comes to the rape of a child."

So, specifically, Lisa, what does this Texas law say in a case like this?

FALKENBERG: Right.

I mean, I was just actually reading the statute earlier today to kind of refresh myself on it. And it doesn't specifically say -- basically, we base this on the case law. And the case law shows that it doesn't matter if the girl lied to you about her age. I had a defense attorney I was talking to yesterday at some point who said he represented somebody who the girl had misled the person about his age. She was hanging out in a bar.

She was -- seemed to be the right age. And still that person could have been prosecuted because you aren't required to know the age of the person. It is just if you have sex...

BALDWIN: It's still a crime.

FALKENBERG: ... with an underage person, you are held accountable.

BALDWIN: It is a crime. We know tonight that African-American activist Quanell X is coming to Cleveland. For people who have no idea what that name signifies, Lisa, explain it to all of us.

FALKENBERG: Quanell X is a very I would say powerful figure in our community. He can do very good things and he can do not-so-good things. It's his decision.

And -- but he's a person that many in the community trust to go to if they want to turn themselves in. If they have evidence that they want to share with authorities, but they're afraid to, they will often use Quanell as a conduit.

So it's my understanding that he's having this event in Cleveland because he's concerned about the fact that all of the men charged thus far are black, and the victim is Hispanic. BALDWIN: So is he coming down -- forgive me for interrupting. Is he coming down to speak on behalf of these 18 and could be as many as 28 potential defendants or is he coming down to speak on behalf of this 11-year-old girl?

FALKENBERG: It's my understanding he's not coming to speak on behalf of the 11-year-old girl.

BALDWIN: OK.

Quickly, before I let you go because I am very, very interested to speak with this 11-year-old's mother, but it's tough to reach out for her because obviously no one is giving out her last name for obvious reasons. Have you at all spoken with her?

FALKENBERG: Right. I have not. My colleague at "The Chronicle" Cindy Horswell wrote a very good story on Sunday based on an interview with her.

And she seems to desperately want her daughter back. She seems to love her daughter. She claims that she was unaware of some of the comments, for instance, that the girl made on her Facebook page that she liked to drink and smoke and sex -- comments about sex. So -- and that's troubling. We all need to be aware of what our children are writing on Facebook.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Bottom line, though, Lisa, bottom line, she's -- bottom line, she's 11. I think you made that point very clear in your article.

(CROSSTALK)

FALKENBERG: Yes. The bottom line is she's 11.

BALDWIN: Lisa Falkenberg, thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate it.

FALKENBERG: Thanks.

BALDWIN: By the way, the controversial hearing on Muslim extremism has just wrapped up on Capitol Hill, where there were some emotional moments. Some looked like tears perhaps from the Muslim- American Congressman Keith Ellison, and compelling testimony from one man who says his son was brainwashed at a mosque in Nashville long before allegedly killing a U.S. soldier at an Army recruiting center.

We are watching it all for you and we're going to pick out some of the best moments of the day.

Also today, the son of Moammar Gadhafi coming out and saying -- quote -- "We will never surrender."

We are going to take you live to Libya next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Want to take you now to Libya. The assaults on the military and the diplomatic front are escalating to a whole new level now.

Take a look at the map and you're going to see some of these cities where the pro-Gadhafi forces are fighting just to regain control. The Libyan army is unleashing heavy firepower on many, many of these cities. And then you have the anti-Gadhafi forces. They were steadily advancing their control west toward Gadhafi's stronghold, that being the capital city of Tripoli, but no more.

The situation also heating up on the diplomatic front. Here's what new, NATO meeting to consider this no-fly zone. The French government no longer recognizes Moammar Gadhafi, but the opposition's transitional National Council, as Libya's legitimate representative. The E.U. is extending its sanctions.

And just moments ago, I want you to hear what Gadhafi's son Saif al-Islam had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAIF AL-ISLAM GADHAFI, SON OF MOAMMAR GADHAFI: If they want to support the militia, do it. But I will tell you from now, you're going to lose. We will win. And we're not afraid of the American fleet, NATO, France, European -- this is our country. We will live here. We die here. We will never, ever surrender to those terrorists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: You hear that? Never, ever surrender.

Want to go to Ben Wedeman, who joins me from Eastern Libya.

Ben, I know you were at Ras Lanuf earlier today. Gadhafi's military now claiming Ras Lanuf is under their control. Talk to me about what you saw. What's the latest you saw there in Ras Lanuf?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we -- the last thing we saw in Ras Lanuf, Brooke, was that the opposition forces were pulling back. Many of them were retreating from the city after a prolonged and intense bombardment from the sea, from the air and from artillery on the ground, that those incoming rounds hit very close to one of the hospitals.

It hit a mosque, apparently killing one person inside. The fighters were telling us that it was just too intense for them to stay there. So, they pulled out basically to a checkpoint about five miles to the east of the city.

We did see reinforcements coming in, but, clearly, they're outgunned. Clearly, they simply cannot withstand this assault by forces far superior to them. So, at this point, it's not clear who actually controls Ras Lanuf. We know that the government forces were -- were advancing on it, but there were still opposition fighters inside the town trying to defend it -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yes. The fact that they can't compete, I know, Ben, you have made that point before.

There was a top U.S. official who says Gadhafi is in this fight for the long haul. We just heard from his son Saif saying, we will never surrender.

I know this is a tough battle ahead here. How is -- how is the opposition organizing now?

WEDEMAN: Well, this is the problem, Brooke. It's not. It's been a very chaotic effort on the part of the opposition fighters from the beginning.

And even though we have seen them trying to organize their ranks, trying to sort of get an organized list of who exactly is fighting on their side, trying to convince them to stop wasting their ammunition by firing it in the air and, rather, firing at -- firing it at the enemy, there still is not a command structure in place to direct these people, these young men who -- many of whom have no military experience.

So what we saw today was lots of arguments among them. Should we stay? Should we go? Should we pull back to the rear and...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: How long would they be willing to stay before they perhaps even run out of firepower?

WEDEMAN: Well, this is the problem. Nobody really knows. Some are clearly willing to die. Others, when the fire -- when the incoming fire becomes too intense, they panic. They leave. It's a very slapdash effort.

You -- you have to credit them for their enthusiasm, for their spirit, for their determination. But the fact of the matter is, it's chaotic. It's unorganized. And we see the results day after day. When they were moving ahead, everything was fine. Everybody was pushing ahead. But once the going gets tough, the ranks start to fall apart, and it descends into anarchy, chaos -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Amidst the chaos, there are deaths, there are injuries. I know you spent the day in a hospital. What -- just describe what you saw today.

WEDEMAN: Well, actually, today, we spent a brief time in one of the clinics, but this was a clinic where they were bringing in wounded and quickly moving them back to the rear.

But these hospitals are -- you have to give them credit for working under the most difficult circumstances. In one hospital we were at yesterday, there was just wounded, ambulances coming one after another with wounded and wounded, some severely wounded. And many of the doctors in these hospitals have no war experience. They -- most of their sort of -- their most traumatic experience is with car crashes. Now, I did speak again today with a Libyan- American doctor from Charleston, West Virginia, who, you know, has come over here volunteering. He's been here for the last week. He was first in Ras Lanuf. Then he had to pull back to Brega. And he's clearly stressed out. He's never having dealt with this sort of -- this level of bloodshed before.

These hospitals are really struggling to manage with this situation -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: That's amazing. I know you were tweeting about that West Virginia doctor there helping out these people. As you mentioned, they're learning as they go. Ben Wedeman, my thanks to you live in Eastern Libya.

Coming up: emotional testimony from the first Muslim-American elected to Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA: Mohammed Salman Hamdani was a fellow American who gave his life for other Americans. His life should not be identified as just a member of an ethic group or just a member of a religion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Representative Keith Ellison did not stop there, criticizing today's hearings on Muslim extremism.

I'm -- in fact, I'm going to be speaking with the man who started it all, the chair of that committee, the House Homeland Security Committee. There he is, Congressman Peter King, next.

Also, any minute now, we are expecting a big, big vote within the Wisconsin Statehouse. We will take you live to Madison coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Congressman Peter King of New York says he has heard it from all angles. He's heard from "The New York Times." He even mentioned today he's heard it from Kim Kardashian, his decision to hold these hearings on American Muslims out of line, McCarthyite.

Well, let's listen to some of this thing. The King hearings is what we will call them. Here is what we have heard so far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PETER KING (R-NY), HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN: Despite what passes for conventional wisdom in certain circles, there is nothing radical or un-American in holding these hearings.

Only al Qaeda, and its Islamist affiliates in this country are part of an international threat to our nation.

Indeed by the Justice Department's own record, not one terror- related case in the last two years involved neo-Nazis, environmental extremists, militias or anti-war groups.

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D), MISSISSIPPI: I urge you, Mr. Chairman, to hold a hearing examining the homeland security threat posed by anti-government and white supremacist groups. As the Committee on Homeland Security, our mission is to examine threats to this nation's security. A narrow focus that excludes known threats lacks clarity and may be myopic.

ELLISON: It's true that specific individuals, including some who are Muslims, are violent extremists. However, these are individuals, not entire communities. Individuals like Anwar al-Awlaki, Faisal Shahzad, Nidal Hasan do not represent the Muslim community.

When you assign violent -- their violent actions to the entire community, you assign collective blame to a whole group. This is the very heart of stereotyping and scapegoating.

REP. FRANK WOLF (R), VIRGINIA: I am mindful of the government's responsibility to safeguard the rights of all Americans. There have been instances in our nation's history, especially when our country has been under attack, where the civil liberties of certain groups of people have been violated because other people were afraid. This is inexcusable, but this is the exception and not the rule.

Yet, Mr. Chairman, we cannot ignore the phenomenon of domestic radicalization. It is a national security challenge that must be confronted.

ZUHDI JASSER, AMERICAN ISLAMIC FORUM FOR DEMOCRACY: So we can close our eyes and pretend it doesn't exist. We can call everybody a bigot or Islamophobic to even talk about it. But you're not going to solve the problem, and the problem is increasing exponentially.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, as you just heard, a lot of talk today through these hearings and also some talk as to whether or not the hearings should even be held.

But I want to take you now live to Capitol Hill, where Congressman Peter King himself from New York good enough to join me.

He is the Republican chair of the Homeland Security Committee and called for the hearing on Muslim radicalization today.

Mr. Chairman, I appreciate you joining me.

KING: Brooke, you're very welcome. Thank you.

BALDWIN: It's been a busy day for you. I appreciate you coming on.

KING: You're welcome.

BALDWIN: And your hearing wrapped up just a little while ago. What was your first initial reaction upon walking out of there?

KING: That the hearing went very well, that we got the message out. And I give incredible credit to the courage of the witnesses who came forward.

I thought it was a very, very educational hearing. The other side -- the thought that was right behind that was I think how hysterical the reaction has been over the last two weeks in anticipation of the hearing, and how wrong those people were.

BALDWIN: Well, I know that you really wanted the Muslim congressman, the first Muslim congressman, Keith Ellison there today. And he was there. And he said the hearings were scapegoating at its worst. And I also want you to listen to something your colleague on the Homeland Security Committee said. Let's listen to this together.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMPSON: I cannot help but wonder how propaganda about this hearing -- focuses on American Muslim community -- will be used by those who seek to inspire a new generation of suicide bombers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Congressman King, are you at all concerned that some of the contents of today's hearings could be twisted into propaganda?

KING: First of all, I think, in a democracy, we have to bring the facts out. We can't be afraid of the enemy. We can't think that if, somehow, we don't offend al Qaeda, that al Qaeda is not going to attack us.

But, more than that, I would say the only reason there was any hysteria, the only reason there's any chance for any propaganda to come out of the hearing is really the horrible things that were said in the previous two weeks. In the lead-up to this hearing, I have never seen so many distortions, so much media hysteria, so many professional hard-core Muslim organizations attacking me, attacking the committee.

So, if there's any propaganda that comes out of this, I would say it's the lead-up to the hearings, because today's hearings were conducted in a totally professional way.

BALDWIN: OK.

KING: I think all of the witnesses acquitted themselves well, those who agreed with me and those who didn't.

BALDWIN: So, let's put the hysteria and the distortions aside for a moment, and just be candid, Mr. Chairman.

KING: Right. BALDWIN: What did you and the many, many Americans who watched these hearings today, what did they learn about Islam that perhaps we didn't know before?

KING: I think what they learned was the extent of Muslim- American radicalization by al Qaeda in their communities today and how terrible it is, the impact it has on families, how extensive it is, and also that the main victims of this are Muslim-Americans themselves, where not only are they being radicalized by al Qaeda, but they are not getting the support they need from their mosques, their imams or their local Muslim organizations, that there's a need for a new leadership to come forward in the Muslim-American community.

BALDWIN: So if you talk about leadership, I think I heard you earlier saying there will be consequences in the Muslim-American community and this is just the start perhaps of a national conversation. So now that you have the testimonies in the can, if you will, what, Congressman King, is next?

KING: Well, I will have a series of hearings over the next year on the issue of Muslim-American radicalization. Probably, the next one will be in several months. It will involve radicalization in the American prison system.

And I'm hoping, though, that everything doesn't have to come from Congress. I'm hoping that in the Muslim community itself, this will engender a debate and they will realize how poorly served they are by groups such as CAIR, an unindicted co-conspirator, that that is more damaging to their community.

Why do they want to be represented by such a radical organization? And we saw today real people on the ground in Mr. Bihi and Mr. Bledsoe, and we saw a scholar such as Dr. Jasser talking about again the challenge that faces the Muslim-American community.

BALDWIN: So this hearing, I hear you saying, is the beginning of several others to come.

Congressman Peter King from New York, appreciate it, sir.

KING: Brooke, thank you very much.

BALDWIN: When we come back, we are going to hear that father we told you about a little bit earlier who testified at Congressman King's hearing. He said today his son was brainwashed at this mosque long before he allegedly killed a U.S. soldier at an Army recruiting center. You don't want to miss this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: I want you to hear a little bit more from the hearings today in Washington. Let's all listen to a man by the name of Marvin Bledsoe. He testified today. He is the father of Carlos Bledsoe. Do you remember that name at all, Carlos Bledsoe, raised in Nashville, converted to Islam? Do you remember this man? He is accused of shooting two soldiers at a recruitment center in Arkansas. One of those soldiers died. Mr. Bledsoe says his son was brainwashed, brainwashed at this Nashville mosque and later sent to Yemen to teach English at a school. But he says that whole thing was a total setup, a trap laid out by that mosque in Nashville. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARVIN BLEDSOE, FATHER OF CARLOS BLEDSOE: The school turned out to be a front for Carlos, front, and Carlos ended up in a training camp run by terrorists. Carlos joined with the Yemeni extremists facilitated by their American counterpart in Nashville.

We have since discovered that that former imam in Nashville mosque, the Al Farooq Mosque, wrote the recommendation letter for Carlos needed to -- needed to for the school in Yemen. We also discovered that that school functioned as the intake front for radicalization training of westerners for jihad.

My son's tragedy, you are hearing about today. But tomorrow it could be your son, your daughter. It might be an American, African American child that they went after in Nashville. Tomorrow the victim might have blonde hair, blue eyes. One thing for sure, it would happen again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Again, that was Marvin Bledsoe. He is one of many who is saying there needs to -- we need to get beyond political correctness and tackle Muslim extremism here at home.

But now I want you to listen to Congressman Keith Ellison. He as the first and he's actually now one of two Muslim members of Congress. And we heard him saying at the outset that the hearings are an exercise in scapegoating.

Here he is talking about Mohammad Salman Hamdani, a Muslim rescue worker who was killed on 9/11 right there at Ground Zero.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELLISON: Mr. Hamdani bravely sacrificed his life to try to help others on 9/11. After the tragedy, some people tried to smear his character solely because of his Islamic faith. Some people spread false rumors and speculated that he was in league with the attackers because he was a Muslim. But it was only when his remains were identified that these lies were exposed.

Mohammed Salman Hamdani was a fellow American who gave his life for other Americans. His life should not be identified as just a member of an ethic group or just a member of a religion, but as an American who gave everything for his fellow Americans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And that's where we are on the Peter King hearings.

I want to give you the full title, in case you didn't know. The official name of the hearings today was -- quote -- "The Extent of Radicalization in the Muslim Community and That Community's Response."

We will be talking more later. In fact, when we come back, we will be joined by a former Islamist fundamentalist. What did he think about today's hearing? Find out next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Joining me now from Washington, and this guy's perfect for what we're talking about here, Ed Husain, a former Islamic fundamentalist now advocating Muslim engagement independent mainstream western society. He's also a senior fellow at the Council of Foreign Relations. Mr. Husain, I appreciate you coming on. Let's kick this thing off by tell me your story briefly. You say you were recruited to be an Islamic fundamentalist. How did that happen?

ED HUSAIN, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS: It happened to me. It happened to thousands of us not just in the west but thousands more in the Muslim east in that it happened on university campus where I was looking for an alternative to the massacre of Muslims in Bosnia and the Arab/Israeli conflict.

It was Islamist extremists on campus that had an answer. It was a global network, a group of highly educated, very savvy young people. I would say just like in the 1960s here in the U.S., you had thousands of people go through communism, it was their passage of youth, for many of us as Muslims it was our passage of youth, the way we came to political maturity.

BALDWIN: So your passage of youth from college campus. I want you to listen, I'm sure you heard this today. This is from a man I spoke with yesterday, Dr. Zuhdi Jasser.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ZUHDI JASSER, AMERICAN ISLAMIC FORUM FOR DEMOCRACY: U.S. has a forsythia problem, Muslim radicalization. I'm Muslim and I realize it's my problem and I fe ed to fix it. That's what I'm trying to do. It's unfortunate that you have some of the best work on radicalization is being done by none Muslims. Most Muslim groups condemn reports when in fact we should have been doing that report. Let me also state clearly it is a problem we can only solve. Christians, Jews, non- Muslims cannot solve Muslim radicalization.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: What do you think about that? Is it up to the majority of Muslims to somehow assume responsibility here for the radical minority?

HUSAIN: Well, my contention is that most Muslims around the world like other people in any other community don't have any truck with the kind of confrontational supremacist minority of Muslims that advocate extremism and terrorism.

When I was part of the extremist organizations, I was always on the fringe of mainstream Muslim organizations or mainstream Muslim pious people. That's still the case today. I don't think this is a problem of Muslims alone. I think this is a problem for all of society across the board, because the issues that draw people to extremism as it was in my case are issues of identity, of politics, of belonging. And they're not issues that are primarily based around Muslim communities.

BALDWIN: Was it something then for you coming from within or is there someone from another sector of society be it Muslim or otherwise who could have helped pull you out of that?

HUSAIN: Well, it was people within the Muslim community that helped pull me out. It was my interaction with other Muslims, my parents, my travels and study in the Middle East that helped me see a different kind of Islam.

And the answer to Islamist extremism isn't to blame Muslims, as has been the tendency today, but to bring on board Islam and Muslims an as part of the answer to the extremism that we're see.

I'm sorry, in the clip you showed me, it sort of beats up Muslims too much. The answer isn't to beat up Muslims. The answer would be that extremism and terrorism has gone beyond Muslim communities. The three hubs are now universities, websites, and prisons. That's not where you'll find community activists but they're a different kind of people operating in those theaters. That's where we should be looking.

BALDWIN: We just heard congressman king say he will have a hearing within the prison system. So what a perspective you come from, Ed Husain. Thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate it.

Have you seen this yet? Look at these protesters. One guy gets dragged out of the Wisconsin capital today. Folks, it is, well, not so much calmer now I'm told. We're going to take you live next to Madison to the state capitol where we are still expecting a big, big vote any minute now within the state assembly.

Also, Lindsay Lohan late to court today. So what happened when she finally got inside? We'll tell you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

This is the most chaotic, the most confrontational day in Wisconsin since this is budget standoff began three weeks ago. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Our house. Whose house? Our house.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: Crowds pushing, yelling, chanting after police forced these protesters out of the capitol building there in madison and refused to let anyone back in, including some of the state's lawmakers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: You lied, you lied to Wisconsin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: "You lied," they're chanting. Tempers began flaring last night after Wisconsin Senate Republicans passed a bill that strips state workers of most collective bargaining rights. That vote came after Republicans, they took out the appropriation measures, the funding provisions that required that quorum of 20.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is still there. Ed, that hastily called meeting last night seemed to have set the whole thing off today. First I want to listen to the confrontation from that meeting and then we'll chat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PETER BARCA, (D) MINORITY LEADER, WISCONSIN ASSEMBLY: The provision like all the other provisions of the open meetings laws must be provide the public with the information about government affairs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Representative?

BARCA: That's compatible to the conduct of government business.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clerk, call the roll.

BARCA: No, excuse me. No, it says if there's any doubt as to good cause exists, the governmental body should provide 24 hours of notice. This is clearly a violation of the open meetings law. You've been shutting people down. It is improper for you to move forward while this is a violation of the open meetings law. That is wrong.

Now, Mr. Chairman, this is a violation of law. This is not just a rule. It is the law.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're adjourned.

BARCA: No, Mr. Chairman, this is a violation of the open meetings law. It requires at least two hours notice --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What have you done?

BARCA: Excuse me.

CROWD: Shame.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: It got a little fiery there, Eddie Lavandera. Please explain how this happened. They took out the funding issue. Therefore, that made it legal. They didn't need the quorum?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, not to get too deep into the technicalities but essentially the Republican senators had stripped out the non-fiscal issues and since they had done that, that includes the collective bargaining rights mostly taken away from most of the state union workers and also the contributions, the increased contributions they would have to make to the pensions and health insurance.

And since they weren't voting on fiscal issues they were able to do that without the quorum while the 14 democratic senators were not there. They were in Illinois. That's why they were able to do that last night.

BALDWIN: Where do -- I don't know if you can hear me over the folks. Where do things stand now? When will the state assembly vote on this version?

LAVANDERA: What's going on right now is thousands and thousands of people outside the capitol grounds here many inside the capitol here waiting to see what the assembly is about to do. They've been debating various things for the last few hours, and people in here anxious to see how they're going to vote here. And we've been told a colleague inside the chamber says the vote will be taken in about an hour.

So in the next hour we'll get that vote. It is expected to pass the assembly and move onto the governor's desk. So it will be interesting to see the reaction here inside the capitol and outside as well once that vote is taken.

Right now, if you look up at the assembly chamber area, officers, there were several people who had to be removed today from the areas very close to the assembly doors there. Those people have been moved away by officers that have kind of camped out around those assembly doors and pushed people back. And for hours and hours here this afternoon, Brooke, people have been leading chance the. You can hear it behind me here doing this for several hours inside the capital this afternoon.

BALDWIN: You said the vote could happen within the hour. After that, we heard from Governor Walker saying as soon as that happens, he will sign it. We'll be watching for that in Madison.

Also, Eddie mentioned the 14 holdout Democrats. They've been in Illinois. I'm going to be speaking with one of those Democratic state senators still hiding out. If and when this measure passes the state assembly, will she and her colleagues come back home? I will ask her.

Also, coming up, a sneak peek at the new, ta da, the iPad. You can't buy it. Excuse me. Ipad 2, thank you very much, of course. You can't buy it till tomorrow. But Katie Linendoll has one. We're going to walk through it, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Sue, I was just talking to Ed Lavandera at the state capitol in Madison, Wisconsin because the Republicans essentially pass this had measure late last night taking away all the collective bargaining rights of these thousands of union workers in the state of Wisconsin. They say they were able to do that because they strip out the appropriations that the fiscal measures out of that bill, so they didn't need any of the Democrats to be there to vote on this thing.

So I have now on the line with me one of those 14 state senators, Democrats, Jim Holperin. Jim, let me start with a really easy question, where are you? Are you still in Illinois or headed home.

JIM HOLPERIN, (D) WISCONSIN STATE SENATOR, (via telephone): No, I'm headed home to the 12th Senate district in far northern Wisconsin.

BALDWIN: Why are you headed home now?

HOLPERIN: We left Wisconsin as a group a couple weeks ago so that we could make sure the public understood just what the budget repair bill in Wisconsin was all about. It wasn't about just balancing the budget. It was will eliminating rights for workers, the right to organize and negotiate and bargain collectively. We think we achieved that.

Beyond that, we thought a compromise was possible. The governor said he wanted to balance the budget. We thought that had begun using the sacrifices of public workers who agreed to concessions. But we thought that could be done without taking away worker rights. Apparently we were wrong based on the Senate's action last night.

BALDWIN: As you are driving home to your home district, do you drive with a sense of loss? You lost this fight.

HOLPERIN: We did. We knew that elections matter. We knew we were in the minority. We knew we would likely lose this battle and this vote eventually. But we did have hope, and that's why we stayed out. We had hope of compromise, hope of middle ground where we could both balance the budget based on the sacrifice of public workers who said they would do that, and yet keeping their right to organize and bargain.

BALDWIN: You mentioned that in negotiations I've spoken with a number of your colleagues, and they had talked about how there was a sense of potential imminent compromise, negotiation with Governor Walker. What happened? What broke that down?

HOLPERIN: Well, I think those negotiations were always very rushed. And never did take place at a very formal setting. And there was I think a little lack of trust on both sides. But at the bottom of it, I think the governor just had his mind very much set on eliminating these workers' rights and I don't think there was anything offered that would have been able to maintain and sustain them down to the bottom of it. BALDWIN: So once you get home and once you ultimately make your way there to Madison, what do you say to the thousands of people that were holding out hope this wouldn't happen? How do you face them? What do you say?

HOLPERIN: Well, we go back and say we did the best that we could. Now I think it's up to them to react at the ballot box and to react by continuing to put pressure to Republican to perhaps reach a compromise. The session is far from over. There is a possibility that over the next year and a half there can be compromise. I'm hopeful that can happen.

BALDWIN: Final question for you, then also on the flipside, how do you respond to the people who say you didn't do your job, you bailed, you left town for three weeks?

HOLPERIN: This was a very, very divisive issue, and I hear loud and clear the people who believe that we abdicated our responsibility to go and vote. And yet we have to say to those folks, if we had done that, if we had lost immediately that week, I think even they would have been shocked to discovered what was in that so-called budget repair bill and they would have been surprised and I think disappointed to not be given an opportunity to react to the bill.

We provided the opportunity through the only procedural themes that we had at our disposal. And yes, we delayed the inevitable by a couple weeks, but I think we did focus attention on it and we gained by that.

BALDWIN: I have to ask, you are is the first of the 14 Democrats to head back to Wisconsin. Are your other colleagues following suit? Or are any of them staying in Illinois?

HOLPERIN: We made a consensus decision as a caucus that we would return to Wisconsin. Some are coming back today, others tomorrow, others on Saturday. So we aren't all returning at the same time. But we did make the decision that since we had lost the vote on the floor there really was no point in remaining out of state.

HOLPERIN: You are coming home state Senator Jim Holperin. I appreciate you calling me as you head home. My thanks to you.

Exactly what is it that make the iPad 2 so much better than the first version? You won't be able to buy one apparently until tomorrow, but Katie Linendoll has one and she's going to do a little show-and-tell next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Trending today, well, more like trending for the past couple weeks, what else, we're talking about the iPad 2. It goes on sale tomorrow at Apple.com and in retail stores at 5:00 p.m. So just like its predecessor, the iPad is in huge demand. Presale orders have been strong, stores are expecting, as always, longs lines.

But guess what. We have a bit of a sneak peek for you today. Joining me is tech expert and co-host of A&E's Emmy nominated series "We mean Business" is the lovely and very, very smart Katie Linendoll. And Katie, I don't know, you pulled some strings, got this iPad 2, you tested it out. What's new? And is it really worth the hype?

KATIE LINENDOLL, TECH EXPERT: I feel like Charlie Bucket in Willie Wonka, I have the golden ticket. I've had a week to try it out, and a lot of enhancements here we expected, but also some ones I would like to consider a bonus.

I think first is the feel and the performance. It's lighter, thinner. It went from a pound and a half to 1.3, which is still really small and maybe not that noticeable, but I love the battery life has stayed the same, about ten hours, which is huge, and it has a dual core processor, which sounds nerdy, but it's about three times faster. So it's pretty cool.

BALDWIN: If I had to rate this into some of the most important categories, size and performance, which you just short of mentioned, thumbs up or thumbs down?

LINENDOLL: Yes, thumbs up. Another category that I love is the cameras. Let's just start hitting these. One was the front-facing and rear-facing camera. Two cameras, shoot videos, take photos and video chat. Any competitive tablet coming into the marketplace has to have both a front and rear-facing cameras.

I have read some complains, but listen, this isn't like a DSLR. You're not going to recreate "Gone with the Wind" here. I took it with me for the last week and it did some pretty cool things. I actually liked it. It has 720-P on the back and VGA on the front- facing.

BALDWIN: Dollars and cents, how much does this cost?

LINENDOLL: Yes, I have to tell you, competitors freaking out the price point would remain the same as the original iPad. So it starts at $499 and it goes upwards of $829, depending on what size you want. You have two options, what side and what color because it comes in black and white. Price point, thumbs up, I'm hitting the light button on it. It will be tough to hit the interface of the iPad and price point.

BALDWIN: It goes on sale tomorrow, and retail stores starting at 5:00 p.m. Katie, I'll bet there's a lot behind you that want to test that out. Good talking to you.

LINENDOLL: Thanks.

BALDWIN: And now to someone, I don't know if he has an iPad or not. Wolf Blitzer joins me with the latest from the CNN Political Ticker. And let's talk Trump. What do you have?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Donald Trump, he says he's more serious than ever about the possibility of running for the Republican presidential nomination. He says he's going to make a decision by June. Right now he's talking tough. He was at a news conference in New York earlier in the day and he was saying the United States is simply a sucker out there on the international community. Other countries are taking advantage of the United States, we're being very, very badly decimated by other countries, taking advantage of us, and we're like a whipping post, we could be great, we could be great again, but right now this country is doing very, very poorly.

He cited problems with China, OPEC, the U.S. dollar, food prices, other issues. Trump says he's seriously of thinking of running for the Republican nomination, will make a decision by June.

Michele Bachmann, the Republican congressman from Minnesota, she's is also seriously thinking of running for the Republican nomination. She'll be in South Carolina. That's one of the early states, the early primaries in South Carolina. She's been visiting some of the home court states like Iowa as well. She's going forward. She'll make a decision, she says, fairly soon as well, but she's clearly giving it serious thought.

Sarah Palin is leaving it open whether or not she's running. A lot of folks think she probably won't in the end, but she's giving it serious thought. She also reportedly thinks of establishing a new base for herself in Arizona near her daughter Bristol. It would be easier for her to commute from Arizona, going campaigning, for example, than it is Alaska.

The Democrats in Arizona, the Democrat state party, they put out a letter saying "help us send a strong message that Arizona should not be a steppingstone for extremist politicians and their radical agendas." So they're not shy at all about saying to Sarah Palin you're not exactly welcome. At least the Democrats are saying that. I bet you a lot of Republicans would love Sarah Palin to establish a base in Arizona. Brooke?