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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Ex-Cop Arrested for Murder; Is There a 4th Victim of Accused Rapist?; Girl Gang Raped Multiple Times?
Aired March 22, 2011 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST: Tonight, a blood-boiling demand. The monster cops say sexually tortured a 62-year-old woman wants taxpayers to foot the bill for his defense, even though he`s got plenty of money. You won`t believe the judge`s response. Plus, cops say he may be connected to the disappearances of other women. Now this sicko`s former friends are wondering, was I hanging out with a serial killer?
And horrifying revelations in the alleged gang rape of an 11-year-old girl. Cops now say this wasn`t a one-time thing, that the assault happened on four separate occasions and were videotaped. What the hell is going on in this small Texas town?
Also, hot-shot singer Chris Brown erupts in violence again. Chris allegedly threw a chair into a window in his "Good Morning America" dressing room after Robin Roberts asked him about beating up ex-girlfriend Rihanna. Is his anger completely out of control?
Plus, Charlie Sheen, the late-night smooch. I`ll show you Charlie`s latest media blitz antics. Meantime, his dad, Martin Sheen, says Charlie is emotionally crippled from his addiction. But will Hollywood reward him again? Rampant rumors that both CBS and FOX are in talks with Charlie to put him back on TV. Is this setting an example for kids that being an addict pays big? I`m taking your calls.
ISSUES starts now.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s like my daughter. Really, with the kids also. But him, he`s very strange.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to start tonight with fast-breaking news, that ex-New York cop with a long history -- I mean long history -- of domestic abuse has just been arrested in the murder of his estranged wife. The writing was on the wall with this one, people.
Eddy Coello met last week with cops. He refused to give a DNA sample. Coello being charged with second-degree murder. The guy in the cap right there. Ironically, on the very same day his wife`s funeral.
His estranged wife, mother of four, Tina Adovasio, that beautiful woman right here, missing for five days before she was found strangled, beaten, and stuffed into a trash bag and then dumped in a wooded area.
Neighbors heard the couple arguing on the night they vanished.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We heard the neighbors, this lady and the gentleman fighting here a couple of days ago. We heard them fighting, you know, constantly in the past few weeks.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: So the D.A. was apparently waiting for DNA evidence from officers -- former Officer Coello`s car, before taking the next step in making an arrest. Well, now this guy under arrest, just minutes ago. We have to wonder: what did law enforcement find out about him? We`re going to keep an eye on the story right here on ISSUES for you.
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JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER, KTRH NEWS RADIO: Investigators went to his farmhouse which doubled as a house of horrors, and as soon as they knocked on the door, the woman burst out the door screaming, "I`m here, I`m here. Help me." This guy had apparently strapped her up to a device used for skinning deer. Skinning deer. That`s like something out of the "Silence of the Lambs."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And they say there`s no war on women.
GOMEZ: They now believe that he may have killed not only his wife but also been responsible for another woman`s disappearance in 2000, who also -- whose home had also burned down to the ground.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: And they say there`s no war on women. Huh.
Tonight, more breaking news. Is there a fourth victim of this sicko? Cops in Texas now franticly investigating the disappearance of a 19-year- old woman who vanished without a trace eight months ago. They say there could be connections to this alleged predator in the war on women.
Take a look at this guy. OK? He was captured. He was paraded today.
Cops say Jeffrey Maxwell repeatedly raped a 62-year-old woman by tying her up to a deer-skinning device and holding her captive in a secret dudgeon, a house of horrors for two hellish weeks of sexual torture. P.S., he also allegedly burned her house down for good measure.
The 58-year-old, who was vice president of a local Kiwanis Club, VP of the Kiwanis Club, was dragged into court and charged with aggravated kidnapping and aggravated sexual assault. Just hours ago, he was slapped with an arson charge, too, just for good measure.
Suspicion also swirls around Maxwell in the disappearance of 51-year- old Amelia Smith. She vanished back in 2000, her house also burned to the ground. Cops also believe Maxwell killed his ex-wife. One time, he actually allegedly slit her throat, but they never charged him? Why not?
Meantime, this alleged monster who`s reportedly worth about $200,000, had the nerve to ask the judge for a public defender? Really? The judge shut him down on the spot, as if taxpayers should foot the bill for this creep.
I`m taking your calls on this one: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1-877-586- 7297.
Straight out to reporter Joe Gomez with KTRH News Radio in Houston. Joe, what`s the latest on this possible fourth victim?
GOMEZ: Jane, as though this case of horror and torture couldn`t get twisted enough, we hear from investigators that this guy could possibly be one of the most demented serial killers that ever lived in the state of Texas.
Of course, Maxwell is accused of abducting his 62-year-old neighbor, who had spurned his advances, burning her house down, and holding her hostage in a house of horrors, where he performed sexually perverse games on her while she was strapped to a device used for skinning animals.
Now investigators believe he may not only be involved in his ex-wife`s murder, the murder of another woman in 2000, but now also, Jane, the murder and disappearance of a 19-year-old teenage mother, beautiful teenage mother, Shonda Townsend, who vanished 18 months ago. Right now, this guy`s being held on $400,000 bond also multiple federal charges there.
And as you just mentioned, he has just been -- the judge just denied him a public defender.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look at this girl. Look at this girl. Beautiful young woman. She`s missing, and now they think there may be a connection to this guy.
And this guy did unimaginable things, unimaginable things in his dungeon, where he had shades and he had this -- some kind of contraption used for skinning deer that he had, according to published reports, confessed to taking this 62-year-old former neighbor and strapping her up to this thing.
Now, this guy is the same person who made himself a pillar of the community. Again, vice president of the Kiwanis Club he was. Frequently getting his picture in the paper for charity events, et cetera, and he was about to become president of the Kiwanis Club. A local waitress told me right here on ISSUES she seemed normal.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just your average, normal guy, so we thought.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Was he inappropriate in any way?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Never.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Anything he said?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Never, never. That`s what was so shocking to me, is that he was always, you know, nice, polite to the staff.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Former prosecutor Wendy Murphy, he reminds me of the BTK serial killer, who was a married, family guy who was very involved in his church, and he was one of the worst serial killers in recent memory, Wendy.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yes.
Well, first of all, I don`t know how many times we have to do a story about the guy who seemed nice on the outside but was despicable on the inside. He`s not the first; he won`t be the last. So I think we need to keep learning that lesson.
But I`ll tell you: the other important lesson here is let`s be really careful about the kind of guy who ingratiates himself in the communities. They will use these positions on purpose. They couldn`t give a damn about the Kiwanis or whatever they do or, you know, the other noble gestures they make. They`re just trying to give themselves cover in case they get caught.
And they`ll say it to the victim: "You know you can`t accuse me. Who`s going to believe you over me, the vice president of the Kiwanis Club?"
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Vernon Maxwell (ph)...
MURPHY: ... that guys do this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... a friend of the alleged 62-year-old victim said she was afraid of him. Listen to this.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She even would call him the bad man. She wouldn`t call him by his name, Jeff Maxwell. She`d call Randy or say, "The bad man was over here today." And she said that "the bad man" tried to kiss her.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: The bad man was a former neighbor. Cops say he kidnapped this lady at gunpoint, beat her with a rolling pin, took her to a secret sexual dungeon in his home that had a bed with chains and leather restraints, bound her to a deer-skinning rack, and lifted her into the air to rape and torture her.
Brian Russell, forensic psychologist, this man was apparently enraged because this woman at one time, many years ago, rejected his sexual advances.
BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. Here you have a woman, Jane, who actually had some limited experience with the guy, knew him, and was rightfully afraid of him. And that gets back to the point that I`m always trying to make to my young female students and to the young females who watch us on this show.
Even people like you and me and Wendy Murphy, who have lots of experience with guys like this, covering these kinds of cases, they`re hard sometimes for even us to spot, so you are not going to spot them if you`re meeting them on the -- you`ve got to get to know people very slowly and carefully before you put any trust in them.
I can tell you, Jane, that the sadism and the psychopathy of this is reminiscent for me of BTK, just as it is -- as it is for you. And I can tell you also that if this is the first time this guy have done something like this, that would be like a car going from 0 to immediately to 100. Does not happen. These things evolve and escalate over time. I`ll be shocked if there aren`t previous cases.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And he also had all the signs. He liked to shoot local dogs, according to one published report. The thing is, you`re right: appearances deceive. He looks like some goofy character from an old sitcom that plays in reruns. That`s what`s so horrifying about him.
Thank you, fantastic panel.
Coming up, did singer Chris Brown throw a chair through a window after a "Good Morning America" interview didn`t go his way? Is his anger management anger mismanagement? You won`t believe this latest one, and we`re taking your calls: 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
But first, an 11-year-old girl allegedly gang raped by 18 men and boys. Now cops say it wasn`t a one-time thing but happened four different times. Where are the parents in this small Texas town? Constantly napping?
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pain. That`s all I can say, is pain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would you think about that happening in your neighborhood? How would you feel?
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s no way to justify this. She`s 11 years old. She can`t consent to go to recess. She has to raise her hand to ask to go to the bathroom. She has to get permission from her mother to do anything. She can`t just consent to sex, much less with 18 people.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, outrage escalates in a small Texas town as shocking new information about an alleged gang rape, and an 11 -- 11 -- 11- year-old girl told cops she was raped not just once but at least four times over a three-month period by a total of at least 18 men and boys. What the hell is going on in that town?
Cops only started investigating when depraved video showing men having sex with an 11-year-old girl inside an abandoned trailer went viral. Eighteen men and boys ranging in age from 14 to 27 have been arrested. Cops say there could be more suspects. The case has polarized the community because some people seem to be blaming the girl.
Listen to this.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was not the young girl that yelled, "Rape." Stop right there. Something is wrong, brothers and sisters. Where was her mother? Where was her father? Where was her family?
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we should also ask where were the parents of the four suspects who are under 18? I`m taking your calls on this: 1-877- JVM-SAYS.
Straight out to Brenda Myers, who knows the family of the girl and is also a community leader.
Brenda, what`s the talk now that we are hearing these alleged rapes did not take place at one time but took place over about three months on four different occasions? What is the reaction?
BRENDA MYERS, COMMUNITY LEADER: Well, it`s devastating to me, of course, being a community leader. I`ve talking to the family, and the good part about the story is they`re trying -- they`re healing, some sort. And they`ve been on spring break. So I think me personally, the way that these children are going to be able to heal and our community is going to be able to heal is by positive influence from others, our...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you this question: do you have any idea why the little girl did not report after initially being attacked, initially having sex?
MYERS: Well, I don`t know. I`m just assuming that the little girl was scared. The threats she was probably incurring probably had something to do with it. But you know, a lot of people are putting an emphasis on our community and how bad our community is. There is a lot of wonderful community leaders in our -- in our city, and there`s a lot of people who have concern and cares about this little girl.
And I believe the only way this child is going to be able to heal, our community is going to be able to heal, and I`m going to be able to heal is by the community coming together and supporting us and our positive community.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course. Of course, but Demetria Lucas of Relationship Center with "Essence" magazine, you wrote a blog on this about criticizing the person who had initially said, well, the child, Cornell Lex (ph), the child, the girl didn`t say stop that. Well, now we`re hearing that this occurred on four separate occasions. That`s apparently what he was referring to. Does that change the dynamics of the case for you?
DEMETRIA LUCAS, RELATIONSHIPS EDITOR, "ESSENCE" MAGAZINE: No, it doesn`t change the dynamics at all. We`re talking about an 11-year-old. You know, it doesn`t matter why she didn`t report it. There are lots of grown women who are raped and don`t report what`s happened to them.
She`s 11 years old. That it happened on four occasions, she didn`t consent to any of them. That -- because it happened on more than one occasion, that somehow she must have wanted it, she must have been willing, I can`t believe anybody could possibly think that if they`re in their right mind.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy, some people are suggesting that she might have been afraid, and also that, at 11, she would be easy to kind of groom for this in some way, shape, or form.
MURPHY: Of course, and then some. I don`t even want to talk about why she didn`t report because, if she did report right away, that would actually be odd, because most kids don`t. What I want to talk about is how embarrassing it is for any leader in that community trying to defend these guys. That just makes me sick.
You know, I run a project at my law school. The Judicial Language Project scholars and advocates from around the world recently signed a letter we drafted and sent to "The New York Times" for writing a story suggesting that somehow these guys weren`t fully to blame but somehow the child was to blame. Shame on the "Times." Check out our letter at NESL.edu under the Judicial Language Project. It is very...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me jump for a second, because I want to say that four of the suspects are being identified as ring-leaders, because they allegedly had six with the 11-year-old girl more than once. These four, all 18 and over, are charged with continuous sexual abuse of a child.
But here`s the thing. There were 14 others, at least four or five of whom are minors. OK? Now, I believe that it`s important to separate out the minors. One boy is 14 years old. Who knows what peer pressure he might have been subjected to, to engage in an act he might have barely understood. The adults go after them. But in a sense, Wendy Murphy, are the -- is the 14-year-old boy also a victim here?
MURPHY: I don`t see any evidence of any of these guys being victims, despite their age. You can be a rapist at age 14 and rape an 11-year-old kid.
And by the way, can we not call it sex? She`s 11. OK? I don`t care that they`re young. If I hear that they were forced to do it, I`m on your side, Jane.
But I don`t care about her parents. She may have had a terrible childhood. I don`t care if the parents laid her out naked on a bed and said to the guys, "Have at her." You can`t touch a child. How stupid is this community that they think this is confusing?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I understand that 100 percent, but when some of the alleged suspects are also children themselves, I have to look at the parental units everywhere in that town and wonder what was going on with the parents of the 14-year-old? Where was the supervision of that child? Where was the supervision of all these young people running around this town? We`re going to talk about that right on the other side of the break.
Coming up later, you`ll never believe who Charlie Sheen was kissing last night.
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LINDA MORALES, COMMUNITY ACTIVIST: They were asked where the parents of the young girl were. We can easily and stupidly say where were the parents of the accused? We caution those that are blaming the victim that it will only serve to hurt our communities.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: An 11-year-old girl allegedly gang raped on four different occasions over a three-month period, and nobody of authority knew. Here`s my big issue tonight. Are all the young people in this town just running around wild? What about the adults? What about the teachers? What about the principals of the school? What -- why did it take so long for the adults to figure out that this was going on, allegedly, and they were videotaping it, allegedly? And it was going viral around the whole town?
Brenda Myers, when did you first hear about it, when the story broke in the news?
MYERS: Yes, ma`am, exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And nobody had a clue? In other words, let me ask you this question. I grew up, I was a city kid. I couldn`t go outside and play, because I was on the ninth floor of an apartment building, and they wouldn`t let me out, basically. OK, but it seems to me like these kids in this small town are just -- they`re all just running around, running wild like "Lord of the Flies."
MYERS: You know, when I was a kid, that`s what we did. We ran around our backyards, down the street to a friend`s house. Unfortunately, the day and age now, you cannot do that. It`s a sad, sad situation that nobody knew what was going on, not even I had an inkling that something was going on with the little girl, but nothing was confirmed. So I don`t really know...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You had an inkling? What do you mean by that?
MYERS: Well, you know, during October, we had an event, and I knew that something was bothering the little girl, and you know, I asked her about it, and she kind of just shunned it off and told me it was nothing that she could talk about right now. And I just assumed she was having problems and stuff at home. I didn`t really know what the situation may be.
But you know, the problem in Cleveland is we have no place for these kids to go. We have no youth center, no after-school programs, and these kids are running wild over there. And we do have some wonderful organizations, but...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, you`ve identified a problem: no positive things for them to do. Kids, human beings will form groups if they`re not given positive groups like sports teams and other positive groups.
Barb, Kentucky, your question or thought?
CALLER: Yes, I wanted to have a comment about the little girl that`s been gang raped.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Yes.
CALLER: I`m 64 years old. This same thing occurred and happened to me when I was lake like 13, I would say. This was a close-knit family, and I did not tell my parents. I didn`t want to cause any trouble. And I`ve kept this with me all these years until about six months ago, when I called my sister and told her what had happened to me. And she said, "Oh, my God," the same person had did the same thing to her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my God.
CALLER: I called the person that did this to me. He hung up on me, OK? Recently.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, well, you`re making, Barb -- thank you for your courage and your honesty.
I`m going to give Demetria Lucas the last world on this. It is something that has happened since time immemorial, tragically.
LUCAS: You know, it`s very sad that this story is not as rare as we like to think it is. You know, since I wrote my blog on it, this was posted on "Essence," I`ve heard tons of stories from women who have said that they had something similar happen to them. It might not have been as many people. But gang rapes, trains, it`s something that`s been going on for a very long time. And we`ve got to address it.
And I really applaud the caller for speaking out and especially for trying to confront her attacker so that he knew what happened.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to stay on top of this.
LUCAS: ... can`t contain.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you, panel.
Chris Brown, next.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hot-shot singer Chris Brown erupts in violence again. Chris allegedly threw a chair into a window in his "Good Morning America" dressing room after Robin Roberts asked him about beating up ex-girlfriend Rihanna. Is his anger completely out of control?
Plus, Charlie Sheen`s late-night smooch. I`ll show you Charlie`s latest media blitz antics. Meantime, his dad, Martin Sheen, says Charlie is emotionally crippled from his addiction, but will Hollywood reward him again? Rampant rumors that both CBS and Fox are in talks with him to put him back on TV. Is this setting an example for kids that being an addict pays big? I`m taking your calls.
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ROBIN ROBERTS, HOST, "GOOD MORNING AMERICA": Recently, the restraining order against you that Rihanna had issued has been relaxed. Can you go to events and be in the same room, have you all seen each other and been around each other?
CHRIS BROWN, SINGER: I mean not really, it`s not really a big deal to me now as far as that situation. I think I`m past that in my life. I think today it`s the album. That`s what I`m focused on, so everybody go get that album.
ROBERTS: Even the judge though afterwards said that you had served your time as far as the community service and moving on, but have you been able to? How have you been able to --
BROWN: I have been focusing on the album. Definitely this album is what I want them to talk about and not something that happened two years ago.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, superstar, R&B singer Chris Brown thrusts himself back into the spotlight and not in a good way. Folks, we`re talking about Chris Brown tonight because he reportedly had a full-on explosive meltdown in his dressing room after that interview with "Good Morning America`s" Robin Roberts.
He was booked on the show to promote his new album FAME, which stands for Forgiving All My Enemies -- ironic, given what happened next. You could sense Chris becoming more and more agitated as Robin pressed him for answers about that horrific beating -- you see it from TMZ here -- then superstar girlfriend, Rihanna back in 2009.
After he got off the air, Brown reportedly flew into a rage, allegedly hurling a chair at a window at ABC`s Times Square studios and shattering the thick glass.
Listen to this audio obtained by TMZ of a conversation between a staffer and a glass repairman.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ll show you the glass. Thanks for coming at the last minute. But I have a police officer coming just to take a look at it before we do any work.
You have to hold off a minute. The police officer needs to come and take a look at this. So just thank you for -- at least he didn`t do that much. I have a picture of it, also.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we just need it for our records.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, clearly, Chris Brown put a spotlight on the very subject he was trying to avoid. It`s too bad because he had turned things around since pleading guilty of beating Rihanna back in 2009. Recently, his probation was eased.
So what do you think about this blow-up? I know the calls are stacking up, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
Straight out to CNN producer, Raelin Johnson; Raelin what is the very latest? I understand, there you are, you`re right there where it all went down.
RAELIN JOHNSON, CNN PRODUCER: Yes, I`m right here, Jane. And the good news is that that window that Chris Brown trashed has now been repaired. Folks are moving on very fast here in Times Square, but his road to recovery has gotten a lot bumpier.
It`s the day his album is out. He`s got a new album, new hair, and a new set of problems, it seems like, unfortunately.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. You`re there, you saw the window. That`s very thick glass. That is glass that probably would withstand an earthquake or tsunami or something really horrible and yet he shattered, allegedly, the glass by throwing a chair at it?
JOHNSON: Chair in the dressing room. Yes. And I think -- you know, I have spoken to some people, and I guess part of the concern here is that, you know, after 9/11, a lot of the glass buildings around here were treated, and it`s very obvious that something could get out of the glass here. Maybe something couldn`t penetrate in.
It`s still something -- it was a safety concern for the people who could have been down here on the street. Times Square is a very bustling area in the morning, and you have to wonder what made him that angry to make a chair go through when he knew full well, we believe, what he was going to be questioned about.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s my big issue: anger mismanagement. I mean after the bloody 2009 Rihanna beating in the car, Chris Brown reportedly signed up for anger management classes. Maybe it was just an attempt to reduce his sentence or restore his image, but whatever. Let`s face it, it didn`t work. Ok.
I think sometimes anger management is a big, fat joke unless it`s in conjunction with long-term psychological therapy because you have to figure out, Demetria Lucas -- you`re with "Essence" magazine -- why you`re so angry. And the irony of all this is everyone had kind of forgotten about his incident with Rihanna and was looking forward -- we were looking forward to hearing his music.
But by the way he reacted, he focused attention back on this photo. The only reason why we`re showing you this photo tonight is because he had another rage incident. If he hadn`t, you wouldn`t be looking at it. So, he basically shot himself in the foot -- Demetria.
DEMETRIA LUCAS, ESSENCE MAGAZINE: He has shot himself in the foot. You know, today is the big release, everyone is anticipating it. He`s had lots of great music and videos coming out over the last couple months, and no one is talking about the album. Everyone is talking about what happened this morning and how it`s really his third display of really inappropriate anger. It`s really showing that he has real issues.
First, the brutal beating of his girlfriend; then a few months ago, the Twitter meltdown using home homophobic slurs; and then he picks up a chair and throws it at a window. Like -- who does that? He`s really showing very poor judgment and he seems out of control to me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Now, listen, absolutely out of control, his own worst enemy, but he is young. What is he? Twenty-something, 21 I think.
LUCAS: Early 20s, 22, yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Exactly, so we have to give him that. We always have to remember what we were like. I mean not that we were violent when we were 21 or 22, but somebody should be -- his handlers completely messed up. His handlers should have told him, you`re going to get this question. Here`s how you answer it, practice with him, and he wouldn`t be in this situation.
Joline (ph), New York, your question or thought, ma`am?
JOLINE, NEW YORK (via telephone): Yes, my question is why is -- that`s the whole thing, the point is, he could have put that chair through the window. He could have hurt or killed somebody in the street. That`s the issue. I don`t care how old he is.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re right, Wendy Murphy, this could be a probation violation.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I hope it is. I mean if this guy sells extra records as a result, I really may move to another country. That`s the only thing I don`t like about this. He`s an advertisement for why the judge may never, ever, ever again send anyone to the treatment program he went to because as you put it, it really didn`t work.
What batterers need is certified long-term treatment. Anger management -- what is that? This guy doesn`t have an anger problem. He has a violence problem, and he didn`t get treated for that, not even a little bit. So it`s no surprise to me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s talk a little bit about Rihanna. She became the poster child for domestic violence after Chris beat her bloody -- and we saw that shot of her -- but is she now flirting dangerously close to the issue again with this admittedly, let`s call it kinky video, S&M.
Check out a clip from her record label, Vevo on YouTube. Check this out.
((BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(RIHANNA MTV)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, S&M, stands for sadomasochism, and there`s also the little matter of the gun she tattooed on her body, apparently two of them, one under her right arm and one on her thigh. I`m not blaming the victim here, but Demetria, what is she thinking with these messages?
LUCAS: You know, Rihanna doesn`t get into trouble off the camera. Off camera, she has a very -- you know, she goes to parties, she hangs out, but you never see too many bad things happening in her personal life. I`m going to have to separate the art that she makes from the person that she is. Like, she doesn`t seem to be carrying this out in her life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it is a good video in the sense that it`s definitely eye-catching.
Chanel, Minnesota, your question or thought, ma`am? Chanel.
CHANEL, MINNESOTA (via telephone): Yes, I`m here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Your question or thought, quickly. Thank you so much.
CHANEL: Ok, yes, I just wanted to say that, you know, they need to leave that stuff alone. Chris Brown has gone through enough, and he had enough. I mean, I understand what he`s going through. He`s trying to get his new record out there, and they`re steady just messing with him about this stuff. This happened two years ago. He just needs to be left alone right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, let me just say this, he tweeted pretty much the same thing. He said, "I`m so over people bringing this past (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up and yet we praise Charlie Sheen and other celebs for their bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED)."
And I would say ten seconds, Wendy Murphy, does he have a point? Is there a double standard?
MURPHY: Absolutely he does. I mean some people do get prizes for being violent, and he`s getting his butt kicked and he has a right to complain. He also deserves to get his butt kicked.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you fabulous panel.
And we`re going to talk about Charlie Sheen next, in fact, which late- night host did Charlie Sheen lip lock with on his media blitz? You won`t believe it. It`s a shocker.
Plus the rumors Charlie might be coming back to TV. Are they true? 1-877-JVM-SAYS, weigh in, please.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: I`ve done it once. It`s been a sideshow, but I`m going to keep shaking the trees until I get the answers that I need, absolutely. And I`m not going to stop until I think that -- what needs to be delivered is delivered, which is taking care of the crew, all eight -- my cast and myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The violence (INAUDIBLE) truth weighs in.
Check out my new book, "Addict Nation" available at amazon.com now. If somebody you love is suffering from any addiction, I don`t care whether it`s pills, food, drugs, sex, rage -- give them a copy of "Addict Nation", please. It can help.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Charlie Sheen`s crazy saga takes more wild twists and turns as he continues his very cookie media blitz. In what you might call his own personal shock-and-awe campaign, Sheen shows up on "Jimmy Kimmel Live" and gives the host a very long lip lock. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHARLIE SHEEN ON JIMMY KIMMEL)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, I think he thinks he`s very cute, and he`s making great headlines. You have to give him that.
Charlie`s dad, the famous one, saying, "Not so funny, son"; Martin Sheen says this is the behavior of an emotional cripple. He says Charlie`s addiction has stunted his son`s emotional development, and Martin Sheen adds, "I know what hell he`s living."
Well, look at then drinking daddy Martin Sheen from the 1970s documentary "Hearts of Darkness".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN SHEEN, ACTOR: I was so intoxicated, I didn`t realize how close to the mirror I was. When I struck it, I ended up catching my thumb in the mirror and split it open a bit.
Frank (ph) was trying to stop it, and he calls for a doctor. There was a nurse standing by, and I said no. Let it go. I want to have this out right here and now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So is Charlie just a chip off the old block? The kids were apparently with dad on that trip.
Martin is now 70 years old. He`s 20 years sober. He`s talking about Charlie having a problem, but that clip right there kind of tells us why Charlie has a problem.
Call me, 1-877-JVM-SAYS.
NBC News correspondent Jeff Rosen thanks for joining us. A look at what Martin Sheen was like. Now, you spent so much time with Charlie, do you see parallels and similarities between father and son? Jeff.
JEFF ROSEN, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Well, you know, a little bit, but at the end of the day, look, Martin has had so much more experience at this point in his life. Yes, I think, you know, Martin is hoping that Charlie sees the light like he has, and Martin was just interviewed by a newspaper overseas and said look, "I hope Charlie has faith, and he needs to be treated."
So I think Martin is sort of hoping that his son follows in his footsteps and gets his act together.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And we forget what Martin Sheen was like. It`s good to remind all of us about what he was like back in the `70s. He kind of makes his son look like a piker when it comes to out of control behavior with that clip.
When Martin calls his son an emotional cripple, here is what he means. When you`re an addict, your emotional growth stops at the age when you begin using addictively. The moment you become sober, you start developing emotionally again.
So, for example, I started drinking when I was about 13 years old. So you add my 16 in April -- it will be 16 years of sobriety to that, and emotionally, I`m about 29 years old on my best day. Ok.
I didn`t grow beyond that 13-year-old girl emotionally until I cleaned up.
Kim Serafin, you have been watching Charlie`s antics. How old is Charlie emotionally in your opinion?
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, I`ll give each of you a chance to respond.
ROSEN: It`s a tough question. Charlie has surrounded himself with women who are half his age. You know, you look at that and maybe that answers the question for you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. Kim Serafin, what do you think?
KIM SERAFIN, SENIOR EDITOR, "IN TOUCH WEEKLY": Well, you know, I`m not an addiction expert, and I`m someone who has been watching this all play out. I have been a fan of Charlie`s. I`ve always watched his show, liked him. Thought, like a lot of people thought, he was a little bit of control with the tiger blood and Adonis DNA. But then it seemed like when he needed to play the adult grown-up who cared about his kid, the distraught father, it seemed like he knew how to turn that on. He understood how to play that role, be that person.
When he was on Jimmy Kimmel last night, he understood what he was doing. So, on a lot of levels it seems like he is an entertainer. He understands what it means to be in front of the camera. He knows when to turn it on, turn on the crazy, to be entertaining. And he knows when to turn it off to sound like he`s totally in charge.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, he`s some kind of mad genius.
ROSEN: Let me jump in here because, you know, there`s one interesting point to make here, you know. Charlie Sheen told me from the very beginning in our series of interviews on NBC.
He said, "I`m winning, I`m winning, I`m winning". Look, this is a guy who is going to make -- look, we all stand in judgment but let`s be honest -- he`s making $7 million by some estimates next month alone with his live stage show. Now there are reports that even after, you know basically spitting in their face, CBS is saying, "Look, you know what; you are a huge money-making star for us. Bygones are bygones. If you can work out your differences with Warner brothers, we`ll take you back on CBS. We`ll accept you back on `Two and a Half Men`."
So you know, the question is, and on "The Today Show" this morning, one of our analysts brought up a very good point, we`re going to see sort of the battle between money and morality in Hollywood on Network television.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, money is going to win every time.
ROSEN: Yes, I agree.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: June, Florida, your question or thought. June.
JUNE, FLORIDA (via telephone): Yes. My comment is actually with Charlie Sheen. I never watched "Two and a Half Men". I take that back, the first episode, he`s a womanizer, and I didn`t like that. I wouldn`t allow my daughter to watch the show.
My comment is this man has major problems, major issues. He is a drug addict. He`s a womanizer. He`s a woman abuser. He should not --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But is he some kind of mad genius? Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
C. SHEEN: They have run the gamut from like, ok he is not loaded. He is manic. I don`t even know what that means. I guess it would imply that there`s going to be a crash. I don`t know when that`s coming, but maybe you can cover it when it does.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And we will. New reports Charlie is wanted back by CBS, back on the hit sitcom "Two and a Half Men". Is that possible after all of the ugliness and the dirty laundry?
And then watch this from last night`s "Jimmy Kimmel Live." Study this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
C. Sheen: I brought you a gift.
JIMMY KIMMEL, TALK SHOW HOST: You did? What is it?
C. SHEEN: A mug.
KIMMEL: All right. And?
C. SHEEN: It has a fox on it.
KIMMEL: Why a fox?
C. SHEEN: I will let you figure it out.
KIMMEL: I got to try to figure it out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, NBC News correspondent Jeff Rosen, is it possible in this crazy upside down world that Fox and CBS are actually going to battle it out over Charlie the man who CBS suits said was completely wildly out of control?
ROSEN: I think it`s very possible. You know, I think Hollywood is in disagreement a little bit. Some analysts are saying no way. At the end of the day, quick appearances on the talk show are different than getting a long-term deal. The question is can the country handle Charlie Sheen in regular doses every night?
Let me tell you the situation happening right now at CBS. When you count him out completely from "Two and a Half Men"; of course, he`s been fired by Warner Brothers. CBS is now saying -- you know, according to my sources inside Charlie Sheen`s camp -- CBS is now saying we are happy to have Charlie back. We want him back on "Two and a Half Men".
Here is the thing though, Jane, the only way that can happen is if Charlie Sheen works out his problems with the people who actually produce the show. That is Warner Brothers and of course, Charlie would also need to settle his war with the co-creator of the show, Chuck Lorre.
So CBS doesn`t employ Charlie Sheen. So they can`t hire him back because he doesn`t work for them. CBS is just saying, look, if you can work out your differences with the people who did fire you, great. We will put you back on the air which is surprising in and of itself.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kim Serafin, I have to say it is just kind of nauseating to me that they would just sort of forget everything that the suits just said a couple of weeks ago about how he was really out of control and he is sick and he has a problem. Now it is like oh, we are losing money. Come back. Come back.
SERAFIN: Right. You asked before what wins money or morality? But we know money already won because when Charlie was under investigation for a felony and misdemeanor charges, they renewed his contract. So we know that money matters.
It wasn`t until the rift with Chuck Lorre started that he was fired. And quite honestly, if he still had a rift with Chuck and they were able to do the show, imagine the ratings. Imagine the money because wouldn`t you tune in every week?
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Charlie Sheen said that Chuck Lorre`s wife and kids were ugly. I don`t get how anybody -- I just don`t understand how anybody could accept that. I don`t, Jeff.
SERAFIN: Money. Money. If they were able to --
(CROSSTALK)
ROSEN: I think it would be an awkward first day on the set. That is for sure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is for sure.
SERAFIN: But huge ratings. Huge ratings.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Debra, Texas, can you say something in 20 seconds?
DEBRA, TEXAS (via telephone): Yes. Basically, we seem to be giving Charlie Sheen and Mel Gibson and others a way to just -- a free pass on everything that is going on. They have basically done the same thing to Chris Brown has done. Look at the bad behavior from Charlie Sheen, the women that he`s abused. Yet, they continue to do the same thing over and over again and they continue to make the money.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re right. It is a double standard.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here is my big issue: game changer. Is Charlie somehow revolutionizing Hollywood? I mean we`ve certainly seen his natural comedic talent. He`s demented but you have to admit, it is funny stuff despite his personal demons. He seems to be some sort of genius at self promotion, seizing control of the airwaves, social media, networking, Twitter, millions of followers, Facebook. All of it.
And then he is supposedly making $7 million on his new violent torpedo of truth tour. Is there some grudging admiration for how he has manipulated the media matrix?
Here is the big problem, if he slips, he does not have a program of sobriety. Right now, he is coasting. And it seems all good.
But we all know, me as a recovering alcoholic, you can maintain it for a while unless you have a program of sobriety. It`s going to collapse. Will that happen?
Nancy Grace next.
END
