Return to Transcripts main page

Jane Velez-Mitchell

Will Trunk Evidence Spell Casey`s Doom?; Witness Reveals Grim Details of Fatal Sweat Lodge

Aired March 24, 2011 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, explosive developments in the Casey Anthony case. With the trial just weeks away, is the judge already fed up with the defense? He keeps scolding Casey`s attorney, Jose Baez. And ruling against some of the biggest defense motions. Is Casey`s case crumbling? And you won`t believe the latest chloroform shocker.

Plus, a former employee of self-help guru James Ray paints a wild picture of the chaotic scene at the sweat lodge, saying followers looked like road kill. And one man screams, "I don`t want to die." We`ll tell you about the spiritual leader`s alleged angry meltdown the night before the sweat lodge began.

And Chris Brown speaks two days after he loses it inside ABC`s studios, allegedly throwing a chair into a window in a rage. You won`t believe what he`s saying now and the excuse he`s giving. Was this all one big publicity stunt?

And Lindsay Lohan says "No thanks" to a plea deal that would have landed her in jail for only a short stint. She`s rolling the dice, taking her chances at a trial. Could she be making the worst decision of her life and end up in a state prison for years? Or does she have some trick up her sleeve? We`ll take your calls.

ISSUES starts now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: OK. I`m going to cut to your chase right now so you can get away with all these questions. OK?

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: Why this lawsuit is here and why I`m here is to state that this person had nothing to do with Caylee`s disappearance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me...

ANTHONY: And you said on TV if I said, and if Casey said that she had nothing to do with it, that`s all you wanted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you have to say about the new theory that Caylee might be dead and it might be an accident?

G. ANTHONY: Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Breaking news tonight that could have George and Cindy Anthony exploding in anger and frustration over their daughter`s murder case. Bombshell testimony from a prosecution scientist who examined the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car. This is being called the sound bite of the day. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you opened the can which contained the carpet sample submitted to you, what was your reaction?

DR. ARPAD VASS, EXPERT WITNESS: Well, first I jumped back about two feet, because the odor was strong. But it -- it was to me the smell of human decomposition.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That scientist also said when he tested the air in Casey`s trunk, the amount of chloroform he found in it was 10,000 times more than what he expected. Ten thousand times more than what he expected.

So does this mean we have proof positive that not only was little Caylee`s body in that trunk, but that her killer used chloroform to knock the child out? The defense says, "No way, file it under junk justice."

Meantime, if you think that`s damning, Casey might went to have a chat with her lawyer, Jose Baez. He was scolded a whole bunch of times by Judge Perry today.

And then, just a little while ago, Baez filed a motion. Let`s see. I`ve got it right over here. Yes. He accuses the judge in this motion of being biased. Yikes. Is Jose picking a fight with the wrong guy? Should Casey reign him in?

What do you think? Give me a call: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.

Straight out to "In Session" correspondent Jean Casarez.

Jean, tell us about today`s extraordinary developments.

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": You know, this is a day we`ve been waiting for, for a long time. Dr. Arpad Vass, he flew in from Tennessee, the University of Tennessee, Oakridge National Laboratories. The Body Farm is how we`ve heard it termed also.

And he testified prospectively as an expert for trial, that he actually received a sterile tin can from investigators here in Florida, and inside was the air from the trunk. He said initially he stuck a syringe in to get head air and tested it, and that he was surprised by the peaks of chloroform that stood out from all the other chemicals that were in that small little sample. He did more testing. He said that he was just -- couldn`t believe that there was so much chloroform, even more than a decomposing body, much more.

But then he said he opened up the can and he smelled it, and he said he jumped back two feet.

Now, Jose Baez was very, very aggressive. And he had to pick apart this -- this science. And he talked about, you know, the mass spectograph and the gas chromatograph. They`re established in science. But not to test this. Nobody`s done it this way with this type of mechanism, and thus you have the junk science. The process is just not established.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: My question is -- OK, you`re saying it`s not established science, but what is established is that the guy jumped back when he opened the canister and he smelled death. Now, that`s what he says.

Is -- I`m wondering is Casey doomed by the air in the car trunk? Today`s prosecution witness said the smell of human composition made him jump -- jump back. Now, her parents basically said the same thing. Listen to them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

G. ANTHONY: I got within three feet of my daughter`s car, and the worst odor that you could possibly smell in this world -- and I`ve smelled that odor before. It smelled like a decomposed body.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, don`t forget about the single strand of hair also found in Casey`s car trunk that belonged to either Casey, or Caylee or Cindy but only one is deceased, Caylee. And a prosecution expert says that hair showed signs of human decomposition, OK? Hair resembling what you see here.

Hair, chloroform, people`s reactions to the trunk smell. Mark Eiglarsh, criminal defense attorney, is the prosecution on track to prove little Caylee was dead in the trunk of her mother`s car? And if jurors believe that, does it negate every other theory like Zanny the nanny, and point right to Casey being responsible for the child`s death?

MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Let me answer the first part first. Without question they`re on track in proving that there was a decomposing body in that trunk. Even if the judge suppresses this evidence, throws out the scientific evidence, which I don`t believe he will. But even if he does, the defendant`s own mother, father, now a scientist who equates this to such a unique smell like that of a skunk, is smelling death in that body. I think that can be proven beyond all doubt.

Now, whether that`s ultimately going to lead to conviction hinges upon what the heck is the defense going to argue to explain that away? I don`t know yet. Wait until we hear.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m going to wonder. Leonard Padilla, if they`re forced into a corner and they can`t use Zanny the nanny or point the finger at the meter reader, Roy Kronk, because of this connection between Casey`s car and the dead child, could the defense turn around and try to point the finger at another family member?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, I think -- I think way back when I first arrived in Florida they were talking about Jesse Grund, the old boyfriend. And they would certainly use him as a patsy by saying, well, maybe he kidnapped, killed the child, the child died. He put her in the trunk of the car, while it was parked, out of gas, at the check-cashing place. There`s all sorts of possibilities as far as the defense.

But as Mark just said, there`s no doubt there was a dead body or a decomposing body there. The death ring on the hair establishes who the hair belongs to. And the other two parties are alive.

And there`s just -- once you`ve smelled a decomposing body, you never, ever forget it. It`s a smell apart from a dead animal, a skunk, a squirrel, anybody else.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And by the way, of course, the boyfriend, the ex- boyfriend says he had absolutely nothing to do with this, and he`s always invited on any time.

Judge Perry made it clear he sticks to the letter of the law, and he wants to keep this case moving forward. Listen as he loses patience with Casey`s lawyer today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, OVERSEEING CASEY`S CASE: Sir, you are hereby instructed not to ask the question unless instructed by me. You may ask the question.

JOSE BAEZ, CASEY`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Thank you, sir.

PERRY: Mr. Baez, look at your motion, and look at the full cause (ph) of your motion as to what we`re doing here today.

BAEZ: I believe it does, but for efficiency purposes...

PERRY: Well, unfortunately, I don`t. So move on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s my big issue: is Jose Baez picking a fight with the wrong guy. He`s just filed this document to have the judge reconsider rulings that he made that were unfavorable to his client. Like the judge is really going to change his mind because of a bunch of paper. I don`t know if this is the best way to make friends with somebody who`s going to have obviously perhaps the most important say and sway at the trial.

Brenda, Indiana, your question or thought, ma`am. Brenda?

Hi, Brenda, your question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: I just wondered how George and Cindy Anthony can get by with being so hateful when they`re being cross-examined. And isn`t that going to hurt in trial?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Robi Ludwig, this has got to be the most stressful thing for George and Cindy, especially with this new development today.

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I`m sure. And, you know, it`s amazing that her parents can be as supportive of her as they are. I mean, I`m sure that has more to do with how they feel about themselves as parents.

But this is a very serious sociopath we are seeing here. I mean, she has very clear anti-social personality disorder. This is a very dangerous girl. And so whenever I hear anything that points in the direction that Casey Anthony is guilty, it does not shock me in the least.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I got to wonder, and I`m going to give Leonard the last word here. Is this a really bad day for the defense? Yes or no.

PADILLA: It`s horrible for Jose. He`s got nowhere to go. He`s not an expert like 22 years that Arpad has. When I talked to Arpad when I was back in Florida, the man is a very intelligent, very knowledgeable individual in that area. He just knows it all.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`re going to stay on top of it, a big day in the Casey Anthony case. Thank you, fabulous panel.

And, you know, we`re taking your calls on all the stories we`re covering tonight: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. Give me a holler.

We`re going to talk next about the former sweat lodge employee who is painting a vivid picture of what she calls sheer pandemonium at the sweat lodge. Participants looking like road kill, one screaming, "I don`t want to die."

We`re also going to talk about Lindsay Lohan taking her chances, rolling the dice, going to trial. Could she end up doing serious prison time?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE KEITH SCHWARTZ, PRESIDING OVER LINDSAY LOHAN TRIAL: This case does involve jail time, period. If you plead in front of me, this case is resolved in front of me, you are going to jail, period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELINDA MARTIN, EX-EMPLOYEE, JAMES RAY INTERNATIONAL: Some people just laid there. They were very shallow breathing. They looked like, you know, an animal that you see on the side of the road that`s been hit by a car, that`s just barely hanging in there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Graphic, damning testimony about the terror and chaos inside and outside a deadly sweat lodge. Tonight, we psychoanalyze this guy, James Ray, the so-called enlightened guru who`s on trial for manslaughter. Is he responsible for the deaths of three followers who each paid nearly 10 grand to take part in his strange rituals?

The first Ray employee to testify says that well before anybody died at the lodge, people all around her showed clear signs of heat stroke. One participant expressed his terror of dying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN: He was very loud, saying he doesn`t want to die, screaming and just being crazy. And I was very concerned. And I had a really -- like a stern look on my face. I was just looking around like "Oh, my gosh, what`s going on?"

And -- and I was told, "Just get that look off your face, because people are going to think something`s wrong, and you need to be calm. And you can`t have that look of alarm on your face."

And I`m like, "Oh, my gosh. I mean, there is something wrong. This is not seeming right to me."

You know, "It is fine. This is normal; normal for people to be this way."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But it wasn`t normal. People died. Linda Martin says she was told not to intervene, to let the participants, quote, "have their own experience."

These innocent people put their trust in self-help guru James Ray, a man who starred in the hit movie "The Secret." Remember this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES RAY, SELF-HELP GURU: Every tradition has told us there`s something bigger than us. And the genie always says one thing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your wish is my command.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Was it a so-called spiritual leader who said he had all the answers on the edge of his own breakdown? Some of the testimony paints him as a callous, ego-driven, temperamental bully. What will the jury believe?

Straight out to Michael Christian, senior field producer for "In Session" on TruTV.

Michael, you`ve been inside court listening to this astounding testimony. What were the biggest bombshells today?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Well, you know, the bulk of the testimony on Thursday, Jane, was a woman named Melinda Martin. She was an events coordinator for James Ray International, which was the defendant`s company.

She was present outside the sweat lodge as the ceremony was going on, and she said it was pandemonium from the beginning. This thing consisted of eight rounds -- eight rounds where hot stones were brought in. She said as early as the end of the first round, there were people coming out. She recalled one woman who came out at the end of the first round and said, "This is bad, this is bad. I don`t like the way this is making me feel. I want to be the way I was before."

Pandemonium as that sweat lodge went on, as those rounds continued. More and more people coming out, more and more bad things that Melinda Martin saw.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, here`s my big issue: Guru, heal thyself. Is James Ray psychologically disturbed? We heard testimony about his temper today. Another witness revealed something even more troubling. She said she was instructed by James Ray to focus on sex. Check this out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEVERLY BUNN, SWEAT LODGE PARTICIPANT: Talk about your sexual experiences, how you learned about sex, who all your sexual partners were, every sexual experience you`ve ever had and keep journaling and journaling and journaling until you run out.

He said that sex was one of the most stimulating ideas or stimulating things to the body that you should be able to express yourself and you would be able to get to the core of things that are bothering you through that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Connie Joy wrote "Tragedy in Sedona: My Life in James Arthur Ray`s Inner Circle." You`re a former member of that inner circle.

OK, this guy played God. He encouraged people to shave their heads. He made people lie motionless for hours. He told them to go without food and water for 36 hours. Is he some kind of bully or sadist?

CONNIE JOY, AUTHOR, "TRAGEDY IN SEDONA": He`s definitely a bully. What you saw and what they -- what they talked about and testified to. Some of the Dream Team people encountered some rage fits from him about the fact that they just had a couple bottles of wine and were sitting back and relaxing one night. That was just -- just two months earlier.

We had encountered a similar fit for him while we were with him in Peru, which he just lashed into us, and we stood up to him, and it turned into one of his personal bullying attacks.

This had been going on and getting worse and worse all through 2009. And I believe the only thing that stopped him was what happened at the Spiritual Warrior event. Otherwise, he would just keep going.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor, one witness said that he passed out, woke up, and James Ray was smiling at him and said, "Go get a shower and get ready for dinner." This while people are passing out and ultimately dying around him.

How does the defense counteract that? I mean, to me, that`s damning.

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, it is very damning, Jane, and the bottom line is, we know that the defense in this case is that it was poisons or toxins in the air that caused the deaths.

The prosecution`s theory of the case is, this man was reckless and he endangered the lives of these people by using mind control and by doing all the things that he did that led up to the sweat lodge.

So the defense has a huge hurdle in this case. And I think the prosecution is going to say, "How can you think it`s toxins or poisons, because not that many people -- or more -- so many more people would have ended up in the hospital."

So the defense really doesn`t have much to go on, when they`re hearing the testimony of this witness who really was trying to get out of the sweat lodge.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But, as we`ve been saying from the start, there was no lock on the door. People could leave if they were determined to do so. We`re going to have more on this.

Also, later, Chris Brown firing back. You won`t believe what he`s saying now. It`s unbelievable. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Quite an experience. One to remember. I will remember this, definitely, for the rest of my life. And really beautiful. Look at that. Look how hot it is in there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I had a very, very, very intense time inside a sweat lodge a few weeks ago. I`ll never forget it. And of course, my experience didn`t compare to what James Ray`s followers went through at his sweat lodge. Nobody died at the sweat lodge I attended. His was reportedly much hotter than the usual sweat lodge.

Jackie, South Carolina, your question or thought, ma`am?

CALLER: Yes. I find it really curious that James Ray`s belief system, which seems to cobble together a lot of different belief systems into one, is really strong about blaming people for any illness or anything bad in their life, that they`ve drawn that to themselves. So I`d be really curious to see what he says the reason that all of this is happening to him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s a good one. Connie Joy, take it.

JOY: Well, we`ve always said, if you get a chance to ask him a question on the stand, the question you should ask him is, what did he do to draw this into his life? Because that`s what he would always say to us in events. If something was wrong in our lives, he would say, "What did you do to attract this into your life?"

I think what he did to attract this into his life is not taking responsibility for his own actions and ignoring things that happened. Such as just a few months before, a woman committed suicide at one of his events right here in San Diego. That was completely swept under the table. The woman -- the money wasn`t refunded to her family. And the participants weren`t even told about it or the volunteers, so...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I never knew about that. Can I interrupt you for a second? Michael Christian, have you heard about that at all?

CHRISTIAN: It hasn`t come up in the trial. I`ve heard things about it, but it hasn`t come up in the trial.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, OK.

Check out the defense grilling this particular witness. This is fascinating.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you use terms such as a MASH unit?

MARTIN: It was like a MASH unit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: MASH unit? Military Army Surgical Hospital? MASH unit? Mass suicide? Would you agree with me that that sensationalizes...

MARTIN: I didn`t say -- I didn`t say that. I didn`t say that it was a -- that was my opinion about it being a mass suicide. One of the EMTs asked me that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are quotes attributed to you by ABC News and CNN.

MARTIN: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey, could that backfire, accusing a witness of overstating something where three people died?

HONOWITZ: No, of course not. I mean, listen, we`ve discussed it before, that the defense has to try to really do anything to make their point, but they`re really not making a point in this case.

She took the stand. She`s testifying to what she saw. She made a statement other than that that maybe was a little bit out of character. She characterized it as being somewhat like the MASH unit. The idea that it`s a matter of semantics, a play on words isn`t really going to help the defense in this type of case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael Christian, briefly, I have heard that James Ray has cried.

CHRISTIAN: He did. He heard some testimony from a man named Steven Ray, who had actually been a friend of his to some extent. He was someone who was at the sweat lodge. And he heard him -- I`m sorry, it was Lou Caci who was a friend of his.

And at one point during Lou Caci`s testimony, talking about his experiences -- he`s the guy who burned his arm -- James Ray did start crying and left the courtroom. They called a break. He left the courtroom. When he came back, he was composed. They went on. At one point in Lou Caci`s testimony subsequent to that, Lou Caci almost cried.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`ll leave it right there, but we`ll stay on top of it. Thank you all.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Chris Brown speaks, two days after he loses it inside ABC Studios, allegedly throwing a chair into a window in a rage. You won`t believe what he`s saying now. And the excuse he`s giving. Was this all one big publicity stunt?

And Lindsay Lohan says no thanks to a plea deal that would have landed her in jail for only a short stint. She`s rolling the dice, taking her chances at a trial. Could she be making the worst decision of her life? And end up in a state prison for years? Or does she have some trick up her sleeve? We`ll take your calls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS BROWN, SINGER: I want to apologize to anyone who was startled in the office, offended or disappointed in my actions. Because I was disappointed in the way I acted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bad for B.E.T.. Tonight, new drama in the Chris Brown scandal. It`s got me asking, who`s playing whom here? The controversial pop star allegedly smashed the window inside his ABC dressing room Tuesday, ticked off because Robin Roberts asked him about his probation for assaulting ex-girlfriend superstar Rihanna. Now, we`ve all see this TMZ photo of Rihanna`s battered face. You can see why Chris doesn`t want to talk about it. You can also see why she had to ask about it.

Chris now says the dressing roll debacle was his way of "releasing the anger," that`s a quote over being asked about the 2009 beating case where he pled guilty to felony assault. Hey, Chris, were you wearing industrial strength earplugs at those anger management classes you attended after the beating. He also implied he was ambushed by the embarrassing questions on GMA. But Robin Roberts says, "No way."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBIN ROBERTS, ABC`S "GOOD MORNING AMERICA" CO-HOST: any time we have a guest on the program, we let them know ahead of time the subject matter, the topics that we`re going to discuss. And even right before the interview I said that to Chris, and I was shocked like everybody else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Meanwhile, Chris`s new album has shot right to the top of the charts. I`m wondering because this would have been all a giant publicity stunt? Straight out to Alexis Tereszcuk from Radar Online. Alexis, give us some inside scoop on this drama rama?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE: Well, you know, Jane, I think you`re probably right. I don`t think celebrities will stop at anything to garner press for themselves. Chris has the album ready to drop and then we did hear that his mother told radaronline, she was furious at Chris for what happened yesterday. She said that he really needs to be positive, and if he has got anger, he should channel it through his music, which I guess he didn`t really take what she said to heart. He`s really just somebody who is over the top angry.

It seems like still and perhaps his emotions should have been sorrow, I would think, two years later, that he would still be sorry about what happened. But it seems like he`s mad about everybody else for talking about it. But he did point out and he put it on twitter very quickly and took it off, that Charlie Sheen gets away with everything and he doesn`t. He kind of had a point there.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, yes, but now they`re both profiting. I mean he`s got a number one album and Charlie Sheen has got this big tour and they`re all clamoring to get him back on TV. Chris claims ABC had agreed to stick to questions about his new album. That`s not what happened.

Here`s another clip from his apology/justification on B.E.T.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: As the interview proceeded, you know, it was kind of thrown off - I was thrown off. I felt like it was - OK, they told me this to get me on the show to exploit me. That`s what I thought, you know. So, I took it very, very hard, and I really - I kind of kept my composure throughout the whole interview. You know, although you can see me upset. Kept my composure, did my performance and when I got back I just left off steam at the back. I didn`t physically hurt anyone. I didn`t try to hurt anyone. I just wanted to release just the anger I have inside me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am disturbed to hear a young man who plead guilty to assaulting his girlfriend and talk about needing to release anger inside of him over a TV interview. First off, he didn`t seem to have an understanding that allegedly smashing a window isn`t OK. He rationalizes he didn`t hurt anybody, but he could have, if the glass shards had landed on somebody on the street below.

K. FOXX, RADIO PERSONALITY, "HOT 97 MORNING SHOW": You`re absolutely right. What Chris Brown needs to learn is self-constraint. He needs to learn that there`s a time and place for everything. We all get mad, we all get upset.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course.

FOXX: But you can`t do that after a "Good Morning America" interview when things did not go your way. You just can`t do that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, it boggles my mind that he`s still justifying it. Where are his PR people. I mean telling him don`t continue to try to argue this point. Admit you`re wrong and move on. I think his PR people are doing him a real disservice. They didn`t prepare him for the question that was inevitable.

Robin Roberts did a good job. She had to ask that question. Otherwise she would be in trouble. Here`s my big issue, is Chris being rewarded for his bad behavior? His album is number one for gosh sakes. It sounds like he`s taking a page right out of Charlie Sheen`s playbook. Even though he said Charlie gets away with it. Yes, Charlie grows crazy on a bender, gets fired and is now probably the most popular whatever anywhere.

And I`m wondering - Robi Ludwig, on some level, does Chris Brown know how things work? And maybe subconsciously or consciously did this on purpose?

ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I don`t think so. I mean, when you listen to Chris Brown, he acts very much like a batterer, and the way they process information is, they feel victimized, they feel like they`re being exploited. They feel like someone else is doing them wrong and they can`t tolerate that anger without letting out in some explosive way. Now I have to say, Chris Brown is a very talented singer and dancer.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.

LUDWIG: He just is. And I think his album would have shot to the top no matter what, and Charlie Sheen, he`s very talented and very bright. But these people have -

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But that doesn`t justify being able to -

LUDWIG: Exactly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: (INAUDIBLE) women. Or have -

LUDWIG: That`s right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where you trash a hotel room like the Plaza Hotel or smash a green room at ABC. Now here`s another aspect tot his, Chris Brown`s beat down of Rihanna in 2009 made her the poster child for domestic violence. I`m rather unsettled to se her new video is called S & M.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, K. Foxx. I got to say, it`s a great song. I like the song. I just am concerned about S & M, sadomasochism, her gun tattoos, all this obsession with violence, when she was the victim of violence, for gosh sakes?

K. FOXX, RADIO PERSONALITY, "HOT 97 MORNING SHOW": Well, you`ve got to understand, Chris Brown and Rihanna both grew up in very, very violent households. Their parents beat on each other. That`s what they knew was normal in the household. So They have to break this cycle of thinking that it`s OK to be violent towards each other. Both Chris Brown and Rihanna, they`re volcanoes just waiting to erupt. That`s what they both are and it happens both at the same time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and I admire both of them. They`re both insanely talented. That`s what. I don`t want to talk about this, honestly. I would rather say, these two are doing well, and they got hits out there, and they`re beautiful and talented. We have to talk about it, when they do things - when Chris allegedly smashes a window. Dot West Virginia, your question or thought?

DOT.WV, CALLER (ON THE PHONE): I just feel like Robin Roberts had no reason to ask him about his personal life. I feel like he was there to promote his album, and that`s what she should have interviewed him on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Dot, I understand your point, but I got to say something. In the news business, she would have been in trouble with her bosses had she not asked about that. Isn`t that true, Alexis Tereszcuk? Isn`t that a responsibility as a journalist? He`s still on probation.

TERESZCUK: Yes, you`re exactly right. Her bosses would have been really mad. But she did talked to him about it, and in fact, his mother had said she knew about the questions, and she didn`t even think they were all that bad. It was something that he should have answered. There`s very much a way that you can respectfully talk about it. You can mention all the things that you`ve done in the last year. The charity work, the community service, the anger management, the lessons you learned and really use it as a time to teach other people lessons. Instead he just got angry, it was like the anger management classes never happened.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course, Robi Ludwig, Alexis says it right. These questions were not serious, have you all seen each other and been around each other? That was the first question. And the second one was something to the effect that the judge said you served your time, as far as community service. You know, it was very innocuous.

LUDWIG: Right, but with someone who has an anger management problem, it doesn`t file innocuous. It feels attacking, it feels abusive, perhaps he felt that he shouldn`t have been asked those questions. He should have been treated with respect. And so everything becomes almost like an over reaction. But that`s the way he truly experiences things. And that`s why he has a problem with his outrageous behavior. He can`t help himself.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I did an anger management class several years ago, seven, when I took a (INAUDIBLE), but I took a tennis racquet and I beat a pillow, and then everybody applauds at the end of it. You sit down, you feel very cleansed. I hope it worked with me. Maybe my producers wouldn`t agree. I did feel that it was a catharsis and I learned something about my relationship with anger. K. Foxx apparently none of this is going to affect his current probation status. He is on probation for that assault on Rihanna.

FOXX: Well, thank goodness it`s not. I mean they could have easily said you know what, you`re going to jail. That`s it. It seems like they`re giving him a chance, that they understood what was going on. And it`s just a good thing that he`s not going to jail, he`s going to be able to promote his album. He`s about to go on tour. So hopefully he will take this as a learning experience and never ever do it ever again. And plus, he`s 21, 22 years old, but he still has the mentality of a 16, 17 year old boy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, when you give a 20-something kid who is very talented With that much money and that much fame and surround them with that many yes people, they`re going to feel that whatever they feel is justified. So it`s hard to grow up when you`re a superstar at that age. Thank you, wonderful panel.

Lindsay Lohan makes a jaw dropping move. Is she going to go to jail? And I mean not jail, I mean prison for a long time? She`s rolling the dice. She`s going to trial. She turned down the plea deal. I want to hear what you have to say about it, 1-877-JVM-SAYS, give me a holler. What do you think is going to happen to her?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t care that you`re Lindsay Lohan versus John Doe, Jane Doe. That doesn`t affect me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Check out the new book, "Addict Nation" available at Amazon.com. If you know somebody suffering from addiction, pills, food, drug, sex, rage, give them a copy of "Addict Nation," maybe I should send Chris Brown and Lindsay Lohan a copy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: I know that I was ordered to go once a week, and I wasn`t missing the classes just to hang out and do anything like that. I was working, mostly in Morocco, the trip I was working with children. It wasn`t a vacation, it wasn`t some sort of a joke, and I respect it, and I`ve been taking it seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is she really crying or just acting? We got some shocking news out of Hollywood.

Actress Lindsay Lohan is rolling the dice and gambling that she can beat a felony grand theft charge. Yes, Lilo has decided to go to trial. She was allegedly caught on camera with a stolen necklace at the jewelry store. Prosecutors say they have a solid case. But Lindsay is sticking with her story that she did not steal the necklace. But still why would Lohan turn down a very easy plea deal. Experts says she would have probably only served about 19 days in jail, 19 days and she`d be a free woman.

Free to try to resurrect her once red-hot career. Instead, she is back in court on April 22nd. And if convicted at trial, she is looking at up to three years in a California prison. Three years. Even with good behavior. And in California`s crowded prison she could still serve some serious time.

Defense attorney, Mark Eiglarsh- this decision is for some people a shocker, others say she`s a risk taker by nature. Why do you think Lindsay has decided to risk it all and go to a felony trial grand theft charge?

MARK EIGLARSH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t. You ready, Jane? You bought that line, I didn`t. And because I practice in the criminal arena, all she`s saying is she`s on the trial path. That doesn`t mean that after the preliminary hearing or before the preliminary hearing or before a trial that she doesn`t resolve this case. I`m not convinced she`s going to trial.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, we`ve heard that even when she shows up for a preliminary hearing the judge can determine that since she is on probation for a previous DUI that this allegation is a probation violation. And she can send her to jail awaiting trial, before she even gets to trial, Alexis?

EIGLARSH: That could happen. Oh, I`m sorry. Go ahead.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You say it`s unlikely. What do you think, Alexis?

TERESZCUK: I think that`s exactly what this judge is planning. That`s what we heard she`s going to do. That`s what the D.A. wants to happen, it`s a clear violation of her probation, according to everybody there. And she`s going to send her to jail right away. It`s not going to be the state prison, it would be the local jail.

Again, Lindsay has an amazing lawyer, one of the really best lawyers in Los Angeles and maybe even the country. And so she might be able to get her out. Again, the jails are really crowded in Los Angeles, and she could perhaps get her out on bail. But she may actually be sitting in jail until the hearing happens or trial.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And remember this is a very tough judge that she is going to be before. Stephanie Sautner (ph) who is a former detective on the sex crimes unit, that`s a woman who knows somebody`s when they`re playing the game. I don`t think she`s going to buy all the tears and all of that stuff. Now, if Lindsay wants to gamble with her future, she may want to take a lesson in Hollywood history and look up Winona Ryder.

Remember Winona Ryder, she was convicted in 2002 of felony grand theft. She was fined, put on probation, had to undergo counseling and serve nearly 500 hours of community service. Now, Winona, great actress, used to be one of Hollywood`s hottest actresses, just like Lindsay. But then she was caught shoplifting just like Lindsay allegedly is. Ryder also had prescription drugs in her possession. Lindsay is a known addict although she claims to be in recovery now. Winona, by the way, had a small part in the Oscar-winning hit recently "Black Swan." I think she did a great job in that, but Mark, her career never recovered. I think Lindsay is taking a huge risk in going to trial.

EIGLARSH: I don`t disagree with you. I think one of maybe two things are going to happen. First, they were in front of a judge who said openly, and I believe violated the law by saying, "You`re going to jail." Talk about prejudging a case. I think quite frankly that was completely improper and against the rules of procedure.

Now they get to another judge, maybe that`s the plan. They get in front of this other judge who can`t do any worse, they don`t have the death penalty over there for this offense. You get in front of another judge, and maybe there`s a discussion, perhaps that judge might offer something better than what was offered before. I`m not convinced this is going to trial.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kimberly in Florida, your question or thought?

KIMBERLY, FLORIDA, CALLER (ON THE PHONE): Actually, my thoughts are this, we need to stop this celebrity justice madness. Lindsay Lohan has gotten more air time more face time than she did in her last movie, "Georgia Rule" with Jane Fonda. We need to stop favoring the PWT`s, yes, I said it, poor white trash because let`s give her the new (INAUDIBLE) when she takes responsibility like every other celebrity that finally stepped forward and did it. It`s simple.

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Kimberly, I think you had some good points in there, but I`m not cool with the commentary that`s racial. But look at that white dress she was wearing, that`s what everybody was talking about. So I`m wondering if this is going to be a fashion show trial.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE KEITH SCHWARTZ, LOS ANGELES COUNTY SUPERIOR COURT: The only reason, Miss Lohan, you will appear in front of me again, that you will ever see me again, is on that date. And the only reason you will be here is to plead guilty or no contest to the charge. And accept the parameters of the court`s offer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And she rejected the court`s offer. She says she`s going to trial for felony grand theft. Prosecution said this is a slam- dunk case for them. They have Lindsay on tape in the jewelry store. This is not the first time she`s been accused of theft. Three other times, 2008, investigated for a missing mink coat. Although I really believed it belonged to those fur-bearing animals called minks. In 2009, there was an investigation of $400,000 missing Dior jewelry from a photo shoot. Last year a $35,000 Rolex went missing. She was questioned but she has never been criminally charged with any of those thefts. So Mark, briefly, will the prosecution be able to bring those up?

EIGLARSH: No. Nor should they. The issue is, is there proof beyond a reasonable doubt for this case, and to bring in those? No, that would absolutely be more prejudicial than probative. It doesn`t come in under the law.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Elizabeth, Wisconsin, your question or thought, ma`am?

ELIZABETH, WISCONSIN, CALLER (ON THE PHONE): Hi, thank you, Jane for taking my call. I believe Lindsay Lohan is innocent. She was not trying to hide that necklace in any form or way. And she decided to fight this, because she knows she`s innocent. And she`s sick of being railroaded. She`s going to fight this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well or the other alternative is she may have some sick need for attention. That`s overwhelming, your common sense, my big issue tonight, does she think this trial is her biggest role yet? She`s treated every court appearance like a red carpet appearance. And that`s why this is my big issue. Look at the attention to wardrobe.

I mean, come on, she looks great. But that`s not the point. Alexis Tereszcuk, could she get off, even though they allegedly have her on tape wearing this in the store, because there`s no audio on the tape, and she could argue that, "hey, yes, I put it on in the store, because they gave it to me?"

TERESZCUK: There`s always the chance she could get off. The D.A. is pretty positive that this isn`t going to happen. And I know the people, the owners of the store sold the video, and they`ve spoken to the press. They really have done everything that would seem like they`ve hurt the case. But the D.A.`s really confident that this is going to - that she`s going to be found guilty. They`ll put the investigators on the stand and they think they`re going to win in a trial.

EIGLARSH: A confident D.A. doesn`t mean anything. They`re always confident about their case. Listen, all it takes is one witness to say, I spoke with the store. I then conveyed the message to Lindsay, it was OK to take that message. Boom, you`ve got reasonable doubt. I don`t know if that`s what happened here but if it does go to trial, but I don`t think it will, that`s what they`re going to say.

TERESZCUK: I don`t think -

(CROSSTALK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It didn`t happen that way, Mark because -

EIGLARSH: I`m not saying it did, Jane. That`s all it takes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m going to take out the big gavel.

EIGLARSH: You bring it out. Go right ahead. I`m not afraid.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re not afraid of my big gavel?

EIGLARSH: No.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here`s the thing. The store said that if she were given that necklace, what they would have done is filled out a whole bunch of paperwork, because they don`t give, even stars, jewelry. That they make them fill out paperwork. They don`t have that paperwork, Mark.

EIGLARSH: Yes, says them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She didn`t return the necklace to the store. She returned it to the police.

EIGLARSH: Well, because they were after her. But again, they`ve sold themselves out by selling this to the media. Now there`s an interest and a motive and a bias.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: "Nancy Grace" is up next. Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Could it be that Lindsay`s addicted to the limelight? Is that what`s making her take this big gamble and possibly go to prison? In my new book "Addict Nation" I talked about Lindsay Lohan and how addicts are often addicted to drama and risk taking because it gives them an adrenaline rush.

Alexis, what is Lindsay doing as we lead up to this big hearing? Is she out partying again?

TERESZCUK: Yes, she was just on a trip in New York and she was in a club every single night. There was even a fight in one of the clubs. And the police were called. She had nothing to do with it. But she was there. She`s not staying at home and reading scripts or anything like that. She is out partying again.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes and we don`t know that she`s using. She says she`s sober. She`s seen with a can of Red Bull. So I hope she`s sober. Sometimes people trade in addictions, maybe she is now addicted to risk- taking. She`s taking a huge, huge risk. We`ll see what happens. Now, "Nancy Grace."

END