Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Obama's Libya Address: When's the End Game for U.S.; Eminem's Lawsuit Could Change Pay for Older Artists; Utah's Guest Worker Permit Law; Radioactive Water Spilling into the Ocean
Aired March 28, 2011 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Japan's nuclear crisis takes another turn this morning. Now there's poisonous radioactive water pooling around the damaged reactors and now spilling into the ocean. What are the larger implications of this? We're going to take a look on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Good Monday morning, it is Monday in case you hadn't realized it, March 28th. Welcome to AMERICAN MORNING.
CHETRY: It feels like that Monday, so you had to say it twice.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: A lot to talk about this morning. Let's get you caught up on what we're talking about this hour. The turning tide in the Libyan war, resurgent rebels backed by coalition air strikes now gaining ground. A live report from Tripoli, just minutes away.
CHETRY: Also, a conservative Utah lawmaker says that he's come up with a practical solution to the nation's immigration problem. He's getting death threats because of it. You'll hear from him coming up a little later in the show.
VELSHI: And recording artists all over the world getting a nice raise thanks to Eminem. How the rap star scored a big victory for musicians in the battle over who gets paid for all those songs that you download to your iPod. That's ahead at 7:20.
CHETRY: First up, though, we're following the latest developments in Japan. Radioactive iodine is spreading in the ocean near the crippled Daiichi power plant. It is registering more than 1,800 times the normal levels, and after first denying it, the nuclear safety officials in Japan concede that contaminated water from the facility appears to be spilling directly into the sea.
Martin Savidge is live in Tokyo this morning. So this situation looks very unstable right now. We have the 19 workers exposed to radiation levels higher than the legal limit. There was action at all three reactors, one, two, and three in terms of testing. They found high radiation levels. And now the sea water issue.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Kiran. I mean, here's the way it's all going is that you've been dumping salt water on these reactors on that site for days and days and days, tons of water. Not surprising that water's got to go somewhere. They're finding it just about everywhere and the problem is it's highly radioactive.
The latest find is in a tunnel that connects about all the reactors. Today for the first time TEPCO opened up the tunnels, found water inside and decided to test it. And they found radiation levels that were exceedingly high. Not perhaps a surprise, only that they don't know the exact source.
But now you see it running all around the facility and it might explain why you're starting to see levels in the sea water. The testing today revealed that the sea water levels had come down slightly, but they're still extremely high, and, of course, a great concern, although they do point out that the half-life of the radioactive iodine is about eight days so they're hoping it will continue decreasing. It will only decrease as long as no more goes into the ocean. I think right now the real concern is how much water, and how far does it spread around this facility?
CHETRY: Also, it can get incremental when we talk about each day progress made here, levels high, they're back down. Are they tackling this problem, or is that still unknown? Are they going to have this taken care of?
SAVIDGE: Well, here's the problem. The water issue has become the primary one of the moment right now. That's what it seems to be. They go from one major crises to the next. Getting rid of this water is not what they want to do. They want to pump it out.
The problem is you don't want to dump it into the ocean. So instead they put it in containers. Those containers are about full. So they had no place to take water they want to pump out of the various places they need to get to. That is basically is slowing their efforts to try to turn on the cooling pumps.
The other concern we have, reactor number one, it's been fairly quiet. Now all of a sudden the temperature is starting to rise. That would suggest that perhaps the cooling rods aren't getting enough water ironically. If they get partially or fully exposed, you'll have a very large reactor release.
CHETRY: Martin Savidge, thanks so much for the update.
Meantime, 6,500 miles from Japan, radioactivity has been detected in the rainwater in Massachusetts. Very low levels, but radioiodine 131, they say it poses no threat to the public health right now according to state health officials, but, indeed, it was found there. Repeated tests on the state's drinking water are planned over the next several days as a precaution. Similar levels of radioactivity and rainwater samples have also been found in California, in Washington State, and in Pennsylvania.
ROMANS: To the war in Libya now, and President Obama getting ready to address the nation about the military mission in primetime tonight. Pressure is building on him to find a way out, and we may be getting closer to that. NATO now says it will take over the entire military mission there, not just the no-fly zone. But a relentless bombing campaign over the past nine days led by the U.S. has turned the tides for rebel forces. This weekend they pushed west, retaking the critical oil terminals in Ras Lanuf and in the city of Brega. And for the first time airstrikes have reportedly targeted Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte.
Arwa Damon is live for us in Libya. Arwa, what's the latest on the rebels' push westward?
Not sure if Arwa can hear us. She's traveling with the rebels watching the push westward. We're going to check back in with her again to figure out where they are, what kind of progress they've made, and what the no-fly zone and the implications of NATO taking over everything will mean for the rebels in the situation there.
Coming up at 7:40 eastern, we'll also speak to historian Doris Kearns Goodwin and Nick Ragone. What does the president need to say to the nation and his critics tonight? And how big are the stakes here? We'll have all that for you coming up.
President Obama will explain his Libya strategy tonight in his national address. He's scheduled to speak at 7:30 eastern. Our coverage begins live at 7:00. Ali?
VELSHI: New this morning, an elderly man got the shock of his life in a San Francisco Bay Area suburb on Sunday. Police say he went outside to get his Sunday newspaper in his driveway like we all do when a device hidden inside his newspaper exploded in his hands.
He was rushed to the hospital. He's expected to be OK. Nearly a dozen nearby homes were evacuated as a precaution. Police and bomb- sniffing dogs combed the neighborhoods but no other explosives were found. It's unclear if the man was an intended target or the victim of a dangerous prank.
An avalanche wiped out seven experienced skiers in Utah. It happened on Horseshoe Mountain Saturday morning. Officials say three of the skiers triggered the avalanche after digging around in the snow to test for an avalanche. The cascading snow trapped the group, one man buried completely. Search and rescue teams were able to pull them all to safety, and they are all expected to be just fine.
ROMANS: They got lucky.
VELSHI: Honestly. That could be very bad.
And thousands of Hastings, Minnesota, residents are gearing up for severe floods. They're helping neighbors. Officials warn that most of the rivers are in a state of overflowing. But a recent -- the recent freezing temperatures may have slowed the rising water.
(WEATHER REPORT)
CHETRY: Well, from the first four now to the final four. This is a really wonderful Cinderella story for Virginia Commonwealth University. They had a stunning run through the NCAA tournament beating top seed Kansas 71-61 to earn a trip to the final four in Houston.
VCU's victory set off a wild celebration on the campus at Richmond, Virginia, where students were dancing in the streets. The final four matchup, VCU plays Butler, Kentucky goes up against UCONN. The winners meet a week from tonight in Houston for the national championship.
VELSHI: We'll be watching it Saturday night in Houston, Sunday, I guess, is the final game. Sunday?
ROMANS: Is it Saturday?
VELSHI: Monday, Monday, Monday -- that's right.
Coming up ahead on "American Morning," more angry protests in the Arab world. We've got some new hot spots to tell you about. Syria has been heating up, and Yemen where Al Qaeda is acting up. We'll tell you about that.
ROMANS: And we still don't know who they are, but we know this, they're all millionaires. Seven New York state employees will share $319 million in the mega-millions lottery jackpot. Let's all dream for one minute. It's nine minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: We've been telling you how rebels in Libya have been making advances against Gadhafi and actually able to retake some towns they had lost in prior days after nine days of enforcement of a no-fly zone. Indeed, the rebels are making some advances.
Arwa Damon is in eastern Libya. Arwa, give us a little sense of how much progress the rebels have made and what they're saying.
ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Christine, they've not only regained the territory that they initially lost to Gadhafi's forces, they have, in fact, pushed even further westward.
We're a few miles outside the small town. We're still hearing explosions in the distance. Earlier we were seeing a plume of smoke rising. The opposition forces are telling us they are on one side of this town, Gadhafi's troops they say are on the other side.
You can see a group of them under that tree right there, everyone fairly optimistic, fairly upbeat. What they're telling us is that the opposition fighters that are manning their heavy weapons have gone to the front. And those who are using lighter weapons, AK-47s are now in the back waiting for that first opposition front line to push through.
Everyone as we have been reporting as you mentioned, they're underscoring the fact that none of this would have been possible without that international intervention without the air strikes, Christine.
ROMANS: All right, Arwa Damon, thank you so much, Arwa. CHETRY: And this is -- as we follow the latest developments, the president will be addressing the nation about Libya tonight, about the decision to go to war. He's under fire from both sides of the aisle right now.
Joining us to talk more about this is Parag Khanna, the author of "How to run the World" and a senior fellow with the nonpartisan think tank the New American Foundation. Thanks so much for joining us.
PARAG KHANNA, SENIOR FELLOW, NEW AMERICA FOUNDATION: Thank you.
CHETRY: You also advised him in his -- during his presidential bid, as well. What does he need to say to sort of establish what's different, why we got involved in Libya and their reform efforts when we didn't necessarily in Egypt or Bahrain, as well as other countries?
KHANNA: Well, one of the main reasons in the Libya case is because the Arabs and the Europeans have taken the lead on those matters. So what he's saying is the United States is going to support where Arabs have decided to collectively play a role, such as endorsing a U.N. sanctioned no-fly zone and where the United States can support European efforts to establish a new government.
But the U.S. is not in the lead. That's important to point out because he's being accused of having unlawfully, unconstitutionally gone into war. That's not really the case. And as he will probably say tonight is what's much more going on is that we are supporting an internationally sanctioned operation. The U.N. is involved, NATO is involved, and so forth.
CHETRY: But we're leading the charge in terms of the military. We're flying the most sorties. We're launching the most missiles.
KHANNA: This has always been the case with NATO where, of course, there is cover up and alliance. There are 27 members. The NATO flag, the NATO structure, command structure has now taken over these operations. But, yes, of course, we have unique assets and capabilities. We have a very powerful military but we are very much putting it in the service of collective national security, of collective security ends that have been defined by the United Nations, by the Arabs, and by Europeans.
VELSHI: So Defense Secretary Robert Gates had been making a case and probably led the contingent that was making the case that there is no vital U.S. interest here. The president will make the case that there was a humanitarian interest. There is more of a vital U.S. interest in Syria and in Yemen. Does this limited involvement, this "we're not in charge" branding make it easier to do something if necessary in one of those places or another place yet to be determined?
KHANNA: It's very much going to be case-by-case. Of course, when this began, we didn't know which crisis was going to unfold next.
VELSHI: Sure.
KHANNA: We have different capabilities in different places. What's happening now, for example, in Jordan and Syria is really a different part of the Middle East, North Africa, the gulf regions, which is Bahrain and Qatar and so forth and the (INAUDIBLE). These are three different parts of the Middle Eastern region. We have a different approach. We have very frosty relations with Syria and have had for quite some time. Very limited assets and capabilities.
VELSHI: Right.
KHANNA: And there's no need at this point to conduct military operations. There is most certainly brutality from a very corrupt regime that is very shaky at this point in time, but that doesn't mean that right now we need to be protecting the population from some slaughter, such as was truly the case in Libya.
ROMANS: Right. What about Yemen whether there's an Al Qaeda presence? And this has been a -- this has been an area that has been of deep concern for American intelligence folks, what's happening in Yemen. What about that challenge to the U.S. and the strategy?
KHANNA: It has been a concern for a very long time. And in fact, we have had strong power military counter special operations forces present in Yemen for a while working with the government and military to work on the Al Qaeda problem there. Which is somewhat different --
ROMANS: And now this government is on its heels. This government that we've been working it is on its heels.
KHANNA: Yes, and whatever comes next and then all of these countries in the region, we are going to see new governments gradually take shape and come into power, we will work with them, as well, because they don't necessarily want to have Al Qaeda take over the country, which isn't really necessarily the threat anyway. Al Qaeda is a factor of instability but we're not seeing in any of these countries that suddenly Al Qaeda is taking over the government. So it actually isn't the primary concern right now.
CHETRY: You know, the question, though, is this notion of hypocrisy. And I don't mean it in a negative. I'm just saying that why do we have a different standard or a double standard in some of these countries? I mean, yes, Moammar Gadhafi said I'm going to, you know, rain down on Benghazi. But just because some of these other leaders are according to their citizens engaging in double speak. They're saying to the world community, no, no, no, we're not doing this and then we're getting video of unarmed civilians getting killed in Bahrain.
KHANNA: Bahrain is an example of that.
CHETRY: And in other places. So, in a way, there is this question that people are asking, is this a double standard?
KHANNA: There may be double standards involved. Of course, that is always going to be the case. The fact that we may not be stopping the Bahraini government and what Saudi Arabia is doing in Bahrain from happening doesn't mean that we can't help the people of Libya. We have limited bandwidth, limited capacity. There are certain places that become more urgent than others. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be going forward wherever we can.
In the case of Bahrain, it also doesn't mean that we're not still helping and pushing from behind the scenes to try and reform the government. That is also a really important part of this process. Not just the immediate headlines of the military activity of the brutality in the streets, but also what role are we playing behind the scenes to help reform these governments.
VELSHI: You make a good point. We still have some influence in Bahrain. We didn't have that influence with Gadhafi.
CHETRY: Right.
KHANNA: Of course, we have a tremendous military presence there, of course.
VELSHI: Right.
KHANNA: We have the U.S. Naval fleet anchored there, in fact, just as the Army is based in Qatar. So we are going to remain engaged diplomatically in these countries for quite a long time to come. So I wouldn't judge us just so soon based on whether or not we are flying and bombing right now. We shouldn't be doing that in some of these cases anyway.
ROMANS: Right. Farag Khanna, thank you so much.
KHANNA: Thank you.
CHETRY: Good to have you with us. We're going to take a quick break. Eighteen minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: You can't get through the last mile on the treadmill with this song.
VELSHI: That's excellent.
ROMANS: I can't get through the first mile in the treadmill.
VELSHI: We're going to listen to what you want.
ROMANS: Running shoes first.
CHETRY: Exactly.
Well, just how much is a song worth? For older artists, it could be a lot more now. Carmen Wong Ulrich joins us, "Minding Your Business." So we're just randomly playing Eminem.
VELSHI: Right.
CHETRY: (INAUDIBLE) matter could be the reason why.
CARMEN WONG ULRICH, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: One of my favorite Detroit gentlemen here.
VELSHI: Yes.
ULRICH: If you're a musician with a record deal predating 2000 or so, great news. Eminem's digital download lawsuit has been ruled in your favor on appeal. Four years ago, Eminem's producer sued Universal Music for royalties for the digital downloads that they should be calculated as licensing rather than a direct sale. Well, what's the difference? And why is it such a big deal?
Licensing royalties gets you closer to 50 percent of the sale while a CD sale gets an artist closer to 12 percent. Now, 29 percent of record company revenues are from digital downloads. So how much is it worth to Eminem? Well now almost $20 million --
CHETRY: Wow.
ULRICH: But much, much more ongoing in sales in the future. Now, the ruling is positive for thousands of other artists. Because before this century, if you can believe this, 2000, many contracts with artists didn't differentiate between digital purchases and CD sales. Not so smart there on the record company side, so potentially all digital sales on older contracts are bumped up to 50 percent royalties instead of 12 percent. That's a big, big difference. And current artists have lower royalties for downloads already in their contracts, so they're not going to see any bump in pay, but it's a huge payday for older artists.
CHETRY: And does it translate into anything for the purchasers, for those of us who download songs?
ULRICH: Not at all. This all comes from the record company.
ROMANS: But you know, these artists have been fighting about this for a long time.
VELSHI: Yes.
ROMANS: And technology is changing so quickly.
VELSHI: Yes.
ROMANS: It's changing faster in many cases and the music business can't keep that --
ULRICH: The cost of printing and packaging a CD online, so the 12 percent makes a bit more sense.
VELSHI: Absolutely.
ULRICH: More costs are involved. But you're just talking about this and then changing the format once and it cost the record company nothing.
VELSHI: It's a lesson --
ULRICH: Ten to 15 percent.
VELSHI: It's a lesson the publishing industry should watch very closely.
ROMANS: Yes.
ULRICH: Yes, there is that.
VELSHI: Yes.
ULRICH: Yes.
VELSHI: Talk about another arcane industry that isn't moving with the times.
Excellent. Thank you, Carmen.
ULRICH: Thank you.
VELSHI: All right. America's newest mega-millionaires could claim their prize today. One winning ticket -- one winning ticket was sold in Friday's mega million's draw. And seven New York State workers are said to be splitting a $319 million jackpot. See these office pools, they work.
ROMANS: What if you were the one who didn't have five bucks that day.
VELSHI: Yes.
ROMANS: So now, your seven officemates just now won. Oh, man.
VELSHI: Well, that would make the owner of the store in Albany that sold the winning ticket very happy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE HUTCHINS, STORE OWNER: It's great that somebody that comes into this -- and hopefully it's a regular customer, and maybe even a group of people from, you know, an office around here. That would be nice too that it could be shared amongst a number of people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: It is the sixth largest jackpot in its history.
ROMANS: All right. Coming up on AMERICAN MORNING, Utah cracks down on immigration reform. But its ground breaking guest permit law is sparking an awful lot of controversy. We'll explain.
CHETRY: Also, new developments inside of Japan's crippled nuclear power plant. One reactor is overheating. They're trying to now deal with contaminated water spilling into the sea. We're bringing the very latest still ahead.
It's 25 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELSHI: Twenty-seven minutes after the hour. Utah makes moves toward immigration reform. The state passed a series of bills aimed at tightening control against undocumented workers, but it also includes a controversial guest worker permit law. Thelma Gutierrez explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bill Wright is a dairy farmer who says he's as conservative as they come. Staunch Republican who believes in a common sense approach to solving problems. So when the federal government failed to come up with comprehensive immigration reform, Wright said he wanted Utah to take the lead.
(on camera): Why get involved with immigration?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For three or four years now, all I'd heard is enforcement, enforcement.
GUTIERREZ (voice-over): We met up with state Representative Bill Wright on his ranch in Utah to talk about a brand new law he sponsored, HB-116, the nation's first guest worker permit law that would allow Utah's undocumented immigrants to work legally.
BILL WRIGHT, UTAH STATE HOUSE: I believe in real solutions. It's common sense that is helpful for both sides. That everybody can benefit and we don't leave a bunch of tragedies along the way.
GUTIERREZ (on camera): Tragedies such as what?
WRIGHT: Well, broken families.
GUTIERREZ (voice-over): This woman we'll call Kathy (ph) has lived in Utah for 18 years. She has an MBA, a job, and she pays taxes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Being in the shadows, you're afraid of everything.
GUTIERREZ: Kathy (ph) entered the country legally on a student visa. At the time she was given a social security number. The visa has since expired. Under the new law, Kathy and an estimated 110,000 undocumented immigrants who lived and worked in Utah before May of this year could apply for a guest worker permit. They'd have to pass the criminal background check and pay up to $2,500 in fines and study English.
Wesley Smith with the Salt Lake City chamber says undocumented immigrants like Kathy (ph) contribute $2.3 billion to Utah's economy.
WESLEY SMITH, SALT LAKE CHAMBER: Business is very pleased with a lot of our champions out there on the Hill who did what we think is the right thing.
GUTIERREZ: But before the law can be enacted, the federal government would first have to grant the state a waiver, making it legal to employ people who entered the U.S. illegally, a federal crime. That's something Utah Tea Party activist David Kirkham says will never happen. He calls the law unconstitutional and unfair.
DAVID KIRKHAM, UTAH TEA PARTY: I think it's very discriminatory against the people who live in other parts of the world who are trying legally and lawfully to get into this country.
GUTIERREZ (on camera): How far will you go to take action against those who defended it?
KIRKHAM: The Utah Tea Party I'm very confident will challenge everyone who signed this bill.
GUTIERREZ: So you want them out of office?
KIRKHAM: Yes, I do.
GUTIERREZ (voice-over): Bill Wright says he's already feeling the heat. Angry e-mails, even death threats.
(on camera): You're not afraid?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not afraid.
GUTIERREZ (voice-over): He says he's unfazed by the political fallout.
WRIGHT: I don't need to be in office to verify who I am.
GUTIERREZ: Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Salt Lake City, Utah.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: It's 30 minutes past the hour. Time for this morning's top stories.
Radioactive iodine is spreading into the ocean near Japan's crippled Daiichi nuclear plant. It's registering more than 1,800 times the normal level inside the facility. The temperature is rising inside in the number one reactor. A sign the nuclear fuel rods are overheating. In reactor number two, radioactive water is pooling. Workers are trying to remove it but plant officials say they have no place safe to store it.
New air strikes and Gadhafi losing ground fast in Libya. Bombings paving the way for the opposition to retake two key oil cities. Ras Lanuf and Brega. And for the first time, air strikes have reportedly targeted Gadhafi's hometown of Sirte.
NATO now says it will take over the entire military mission there, not just the no-fly zone. And as the U.S. takes more of a backseat in the military effort, the president will speak to the nation in prime time tonight to explain why he went to war in Libya. You can see it live on CNN, coverage starting at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: And back to the situation in Japan. The nuclear crisis appears to be growing a little bit more unstable at the Daiichi plant in Fukushima. I want to show you inside the facility where there are now a host of problems so complex and so dangerous that the world's chief nuclear inspector from the IAEA says Japan is "far from the end of the accident."
Right now, the temperature is rising inside of reactor number one at the site, this heat spike, a signal that the nuclear fuel rods could be overheating again, that perhaps the water has burned off of them that and that could lead to more radiation releases. Now the Tokyo Power Company confirms there are now 19 workers who have been exposed to high levels of radiation above the legal limit allowed for plant employees.
So to put that in perspective for you. You're talking more than 100 millisieverts of radiation. In reactor number two, they're also dealing with big problems. Radioactive water is still pooling there, and contamination, officials say it's 330 times the dose that an average person in a developed country would get in a year. Workers are trying to remove the radioactive water. But plant officials say they still have no place to safely store it. And that's what we heard again from Martin Savidge, Ali, where he said that they need to be able to find some place to put this water so that they can continue pumping it through and cooling it and they haven't been able to do that right now.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: This continues to be a problem which we will follow. Thanks, Kiran.
A Disney cruise ship has returned home minus one person. A ship employee went missing earlier this week and now the woman's parents are demanding answers.
ROMANS: It's an animal that can kill a person in 15 minutes. Zoo keepers don't know where this reptile is. The search for a deadly Egyptian cobra missing from the zoo. The reptile house is closed.
33 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: She blazed a trail on American politics. Geraldine Ferraro, the first female vice presidential candidate from a major political party. She died Saturday at 75 years old. The tributes are pouring in this morning. Walter Mondale who picked Ferraro as his running mate in 1984 called her a gutsy pioneer.
Newt Gingrich is acknowledging that his own extra-marital affairs will be an issue in the coming campaign. On Fox News Sunday he was asked about his involvement in the impeachment of former President Bill Clinton and whether he should be throwing stones. Gingrich said his main objection to President Clinton's behavior was his perjury in federal court, which Gingrich described as a felony. Ali.
VELSHI: Christine, President Obama facing no shortage of challenges here at home. They include criticism from both his party and the Republicans concerning U.S. involvement in Libya. Military involvement specifically. Now, tonight, the president will speak directly to the American people to spell out the reasons that we're there. And could this be a pivotal moment in his presidency?
Let's put that question to two of our guests from West Newton, Massachusetts, Doris Kearns Goodwin. She is a presidential historian and the author of the book "Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln" among many other books. Doris, good to see you.
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Thank you.
VELSHI: And joining me here is Nick Ragone, the author of the book "Presidential Leadership." Nick thanks for being here. Doris, let me start with you. Tonight, what does the president need to say given that he's got critics on all sides with respect to the decision to go into Libya?
KEARNS GOODWIN: I think the most important thing is that the majority of the American people are just overwhelmed by a whole series of crises. So they have to understand the reasoning that brought him into this military intervention. And I think he needs to tell a story to trace the events from the time of the protests in Libya up through the pushback by Gadhafi, the fear of an imminent scale of humanitarian crisis. Why he chose to go to the coalition rather than acting alone earlier, why he didn't act quicker, why he finally didn't get to the Congress.
I mean just to tell us the story of why he did what he did and make us believe that his leadership did it in the right way.
VELSHI: Both of you have written books where you've talked about decisions that were criticized by presidents in the time that they were made. At what point does the president have to get into this detail that Doris is talking about, Nick? The fact that he disagrees with his own defense secretary Robert Gates -
NICK RAGONE, AUTHOR "PRESIDENTIAL LEADERSHIP": Right.
VELSHI: - Who says there's no vital interest in getting involved in Libya.
RAGONE: Well, I think Doris is exactly right. There is a - typically in the presidency, there's a narrative to decisions, there's an arc and a story telling. And I think Doris hit it on the head, he needs to give a little bit of that narrative. You know, he's never really - since the protests in Egypt began and Tunisia, he's never really spoken to the American people and sort of filled in the blanks for us. It is a complicated issue. In the last couple of weeks, we've seen his leadership tested. Japan, and Egypt, and Libya and other ways. And so I think tonight is going to be about telling some of that narrative because it is a week later.
Typically when presidents use force, they go on air within 48 hours. Sometimes that night and explain it. So it's a little bit later. He'll have to fill in some of those blanks a week later. He can do it, though. VELSHI: Doris, your book "Team of Rivals" talks about how President Lincoln assembled a group of people who really could have been best described as rivals. In this case, the team of people who didn't agree with military intervention into Libya, including the defense secretary are not really rivals, but how does President Obama need to address that?
KEARNS GOODWIN: Well, I think it's very healthy on the one hand to have people in your inner circle who argue against your assumptions so that you're taking all things in consideration when you make the decision. I mean nothing will be as troubling as it was for Lincoln when the majority of his cabinet at the beginning did not thing that he should provision and some fearing it might lead to war. And the old story went that they said well, six people are against it, and one is for it. The one has it because the one is the president.
VELSHI: Good point.
KEARNS GOODWIN: This isn't as bad as that.
VELSHI: Nick, in your book you often talk about moments, decision moments for presidents, many of them involve military decisions. This is actually the first big one for President Obama. Is this going to be pivotal in some fashion? Or is this President Obama in his cool, collected way doing business as usual?
RAGONE: Well, it is in a sense that the president - there's two types of decisions. The long protracted decisions like health care reform, which he handled well in the auto bailouts and financial regulatory reform. He seems to do better on those longer decisions where he could be a little bit more reflective. I think even his critics or supporters would say, he struggled a little bit with crisis response. And we've seen that throughout his presidency.
So this is a pivotal moment. How does he turn this? There is a little confusion here, he's acted a little slowly. How does he turn that into a positive and start to strengthen his sort of crisis response decision making? I think that's a big part of what's at stake tonight.
VELSHI: Let's talk, Doris, about the end game. There's been a lot of criticism that there's no end game in this Libya action. The bottom line is, we weren't clear on an end game in Iraq or Afghanistan either. Let's go back to your area of expertise, or at least a recent area of expertise for you, President Lincoln. There certainly wasn't an end game in mind for him when he started with the civil war. What - does the president have to articulate he has an end game?
KEARNS GOODWIN: I think what he does need to do is explain that there's a double mission here. The first was to overt a humanitarian crisis. That's what the no-fly zone was about. That's what the Arab League asked us to do. That's what the coalition was doing. And that's the military objective and that's the limited military objective. But then the larger political objective, which he's already stated is the desire to see Gadhafi go to make some sort of peaceful possibilities in the state of Libya. And that will take economic sanctions, that will take the hope that the regime cracks. That will take a series. And that may take time. And I think he has to warn us. I mean, one thing FDR was so good at the beginning of World War II is to say "there's going to be setbacks before we finally get through, but we will get through." And I think he has to warn us that this may take months even while this first no- fly zone was achieved in an incredibly short period of time.
VELSHI: And Nick, you've studied the speeches that the presidents have made around their major decisions, at least in modern times. Obviously, when Washington and Jefferson were making these speeches, they weren't covered by everybody. What is it that you think the president has to say? What do we have to hear? Is there a tone that he should be setting tonight? Should it be authoritative and decisive? Should he be compassionate?
RAGONE: I don't think this speech is about rhetorical flourishes. I don't think it needs to hit those sort of high notes that we expect. I think as Doris said, it needs to fill in the blanks and tell a narrative. There are two distinct things. One is the political objective, one is the military. He needs to explain why he did what he did. And talk about some of the victories on the military side as Doris pointed out. Then politically long-term what needs to be done.
He doesn't need to hit high notes here but he needs to fill in the blanks and tell a story. And I think this will shape a lot of opinion about how he is with crisis response. We know he does long decisions well, does he do short decisions well?
VELSHI: Very good. Nick Ragone, author of presidential leadership. Doris Kearns Goodwin, presidential historian, author of "Team of Rivals." Thanks to both of you for being with us today.
KEARNS GOODWIN: Glad to be so.
CHETRY: Coming up, high school students across the country are waving - we were in stereo for a second.
VELSHI: That WAS excellent.
CHETRY: Waiting to find out their college fate. Where will they end up in the fall? And then the biggest question is how are they going to pay for it all? Christine joins us with some very, very good advice. Listen up, if you're either going to college or (INAUDIBLE) help pay to send your kid there.
Also Reynolds Wolf joins us. He's going to have this morning's travel forecast coming up right after the break. He was talking about some delays because of wind. He'll update us.
It's 44 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Forty-six minutes past the hour. The search continues now for a missing Disney cruise worker. The ship Wonder was docked in L.A. yesterday and the parents of a British woman, Rebecca Coriam, were waiting to meet that ship with investigators. Coriam disappeared Tuesday, off of Mexico's Pacific Coast. They searched the ship, the also searched coastline and they found no signs of the woman who was working as a youth program worker onboard.
VELSHI: Former President Jimmy Carter's back in Cuba, this morning, for the first time since 2002. Back then he was greeted in Havana by Fidel Castro. Carter's on a private mission at the invitation of the current Cuban president. Raul Castro, Fidel's brother, is expected to meet with Castro and others about to talk about improving relations between the U.S. and Cuba.
ROMANS: Slithering away. The Reptile House at the Bronx Zoo is closed as zookeepers look for a deadly Egyptian cobra that got away. They say it's about 20 inches long. It did not get out of the building --
VELSHI: How do they know that if they can't find him?
ROMANS: I know. But they say there's nothing to worry about. The Egyptian cobra is most commonly found in north Africa, or in the Bronx. Wildlife officials say its venom is so deadly that it can kill an elephant in three hours. Fortunately not a lot of those --
(CROSSTALK)
ROMANS: -- or a person, apparently, in about 15 minutes.
VELSHI: Is there an inherent inconsistency in the story?
ROMANS: It's not in the building, but we don't know where it is.
VELSHI: We don't know where it is.
ROMANS: It's too cold outside, it's too cold outside to go outside.
(CROSSTALK)
CHETRY: You go in through that one door. I find it hard that a snake could slither out the door and all the hallways.
(CROSSTALK)
CHETRY: So it's probably there.
ROMANS: It's probably in the building. It's probably curled up in a small place.
VELSHI: Let's just hope they find it soon.
ROMANS: A snake hiding in the walls.
CHETRY: Forty-eight minutes past the hour.
(WEATHER REPORT)
VELSHI: The problem with a snake in New York City is there's so many ways out.
CHETRY: Of New York City? It's an island.
VELSHI: No, but there are trains. There's a lot of people moving, you know? It can hitch a ride somewhere.
CHETRY: I highly doubt it. In this weather, the chances --
ROMANS: There are scarier things when you hit the streets of the New York City streets than an Egyptian cobra, I guarantee.
CHETRY: Right. (INAUDIBLE) when an alligator can crawl right out of your toilet. You know? You never know. It's not an urban myth.
VELSHI: This morning's top stories are minutes away.
Also, a new super bug, if we haven't scared you enough, is spreading in hospitals. This thing is real. Antibiotics are powerless against it. How deadly is this superbug? Who is most likely to get it? Elizabeth Cohen has the answers.
CHETRY: And it's already your iPod, camera, your best friend. Now Google is turning your cell phone into your wallet, too. But what else would you be giving up besides your cash?
It's 50 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: For college-bound high school students, the applications are in and most students will be finding out starting April 1st, where they're headed this fall. For many families, that brings a brand new challenge.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OLIVIA POGLIANICH, STUDENT: I am in the process of waiting. Waiting. That's all I can say.
ROMANS (voice-over): Eighteen-year-old Olivia Poglianich is waiting to find out if she's been accepted or not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got the letter that stated everything they need and they have reviewed and the package should hopefully come.
POGLIANICH: Yes, so now they're ready.
ROMANS: A straight A student, this senior at a long island high school has applied to 15 schools. But Olivia, like millions of others, faces another challenge -- how to pay for her education. Money matters as much as grade point average.
POGLIANICH: Affordability is a major part of my decision. For the next four years will be financial aid from the nation, will that continue throughout the four years. ROMANS: Olivia has filled out the FAFSA form, which stands for the Free Application for Federal Student Aid. It helps decide billions of dollars of student financial aid. Olivia is also a Quest Bridge Scholar, which helps students apply for various college scholarships. But many don't know about their options.
Princeton Review publisher Robert Franeck says do as much research as possible and start early.
ROBERT FRANEK, PUBLISHER, PRINCETON REVIEW: Lots of students and families were making a mistake early on in their college research. And this was mistake was crossing an expensive school off their list of consideration early on without following through and finding out how much financial aid that school is actually giving out.
ROMANS: Olivia's mother was involved from the start.
CLAUDIA POGLIANICH, OLIVIA'S MOTHER: Everything is very time sensitive, and the sooner the paperwork gets in, the money's kind of divvied out on a first come, first served basis. So you really have to be on top of your paperwork and your taxes and have everything in on time.
O. POGLIANICH: You just ask every college specifically, because even after asking the general questions, the specific requirements of one particular school differ greatly from another school.
ROMANS: As April 1st draws closer, Olivia and her mother are nervous and hopeful.
C. POGLIANICH: Reach for the sky. Reach for the sky.
O. POGLIANICH: I'm excited to be going to college. No matter where I go, I'm actually pretty happy about my future.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: We're proud to report she just found out late last week she's been accepted to three of her schools. Three of them that she really likes. She, her mother and experts say you have to work fast and early to get the financial aid that's out there. You have to know where to look and how to ask for it.
Here are some tips. Make sure you discuss financial aid. Always do plenty of research. You should be applying for scholarships all the time, many scholarships because you might get one. It's also very helpful to develop a relationship with the universities, have that financial aid office on speed dial.
And also remember, you guys, the amount of money you are borrowing for college, it shouldn't exceed what you expect to earn your first year out of school. So your parents probably have savings. Maybe you have savings. There's going to be a student loan portion of this. Keep those student loans as low as you possibly can because you're going to be grateful for that -- you don't want to have a ton of debt when you graduate. CHETRY: Absolutely. Good tips, Christine. Brings back memories. Thank you.
We're going to take a quick break. Your top stories coming up in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
