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American Morning
Obama in Late Night Budget Talks; White House Rejects Gadhafi Letter; Air Strikes in Ajdabiya; Tea Party: Bring on Government Shutdown; Fewer Stores Competing for your Cash; NAACP Report Blasts Prison Spending; Ivory Coast Rescue; Big Hurricane Season To Hit Atlantic; The Accidental Tenor
Aired April 07, 2011 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up on AMERICAN MORNING, we're 42 hours away from a government shutdown. Late-night talks taking place at the White House. They failed to land any budget deal as hundreds of thousands of federal workers wait to see if their jobs will be furloughed after midnight Friday.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Another American has been found dead in Japan, killed by the earthquake and tsunami as workers pump nitrogen now into a crippled nuclear reactor to keep it from blowing.
And right now, the U.S. government making final arrangements for Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to visit Tokyo.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: And an endangered baby orangutan at the Houston Zoo was rejected by her mother, leaving humans to step in as her surrogate and to keep her alive. She's doing great this morning, though. The zoo is asking the public to name her.
CHETRY: So cute.
Also, the remarkable story of the countertop salesman who lost his job only to become a world-class opera singer on this AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: I'm Kiran Chetry. There's still no deal on a budget following late night talks at the White House. Hundreds of thousands of Americans including our troops overseas are now imagining what they would do if the government shuts down. They could cut off their paychecks within 42 hours.
VELSHI: I'm Ali Velshi. Dear President Obama, stop this unjust war. Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi appeals directly to the president for an end to the military campaign in a rambling three-page letter. The White House, by the way, is not impressed.
ROMANS: And I'm Christine Romans. Flames heading toward homes. People heading out. Fire crews put to the test in the nation's midsection on this AMERICAN MORNING.
CHETRY: And welcome. Thanks so much for being with us on this Thursday, April 7th. A lot to get to this morning on AMERICAN MORNING. A lot of fears that literally members of Congress will not reach a deal in time to stop a shutdown.
VELSHI: Meantime, they've also got things to worry about outside of this country. But right now, really all eyes are in Washington and this budget.
ROMANS: And a lot of outrage actually that they'll still be paid no matter what.
CHETRY: They will.
ROMANS: That's right. That's absolutely right.
Up first, a hint of progress but still no deal on that budget. That means if Congress can't get a spending plan passed in 42 hours, the federal government shuts down.
VELSHI: Now, the president has been working on this. He called a late night meeting with the House speaker and the Senate majority leader. Afterwards, he said that the talks were productive. John Boehner and Harry Reid seem to agree with him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEADER: I have confidence that we can get this done. We're not there yet, but hope lies eternal.
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: There's an intent on both sides to continue to work together to try to resolve this. No one wants the government to shut down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Well, we have Ed Henry for us live at the White House with the president's take on the budget talks. First, though, we're going to go to congressional correspondent Brianna Keilar live in Washington.
Hi, Brianna. So, staffers from both sides apparently had talks that lasted throughout the night. What can we expect to see today?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, of course, what we're watching first and foremost is to these continued negotiations and to see if there's any sign that House Republicans and Senate Democrats are coming to a deal. But today, we're going to be seeing House Republicans putting on the floor a stop-gap spending measure that would fund the government for an extra week.
But here is the thing to take note of here, a couple things, actually. One, it includes $12 billion in cuts. Just to give you a sense of how severe this is, the Congress has been funding the government at $2 billion in cuts per week. So this is six times that. It's quite a much larger amount. The other thing is it would fund the Department of Defense through the end of the year. So you have House Republicans saying this is a true funding bill.
The bottom line is one of the worst optics when it comes to a government shutdown is that military men and women would not be paid beyond Friday. That looks really bad. House Republicans know that. Senate Democrats know that. So this is really House Republicans kind of double dog-daring the Senate to not take this up in some form or fashion, guys.
ROMANS: So, Brianna, what are the big divisions here? Some of them, you know, abortion, for example, something that the president talked about yesterday, the EPA, the environment. What are the big differences?
KEILAR: You know, we talk a lot about the number, how many billions of dollars in spending cuts. But you're exactly right. There's also this whole other issue of policy provisions. House Republicans, some of them say that they cannot vote for a bill without them. One of them does have to do with defunding Planned Parenthood. So House Republicans say they can make sure that federal dollars don't go to pay for abortions. Democrats counter that right now those dollars don't go anyway to abortions.
The other big one is a provision that would defund health care reform. It's the president's number one legislative accomplishment. He has said that this is a deal breaker for him. Senate Democrats feel that way as well. But all of these things, the number, and these policy provisions are working together in these negotiations.
CHETRY: All right. Brianna Keilar for us on this. We'll check in with you throughout the morning. Thanks so much.
And as Brianna is explaining, I mean, there are a lot of high stakes in this whole entire thing.
VELSHI: Yes.
CHETRY: We have the economy finally showing some signs of life. And the president now says a shutdown is the last thing we need.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A shutdown could have real effects on every day Americans. It means that hundreds of thousands of workers across the country suddenly are without a paycheck.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELSHI: You know, this is an interesting point. And what Brianna was just saying to Christine, it's not just that -- there's a feeling out there that we're just dealing with wastefulness in the budget.
CHETRY: Right.
VELSHI: But this is very, very political. It's not about we don't want to overpay workers. It's about we want to get these programs out of the way. So this is why the president is staying involved. Ed Henry has been up early for us this morning reporting live from the White House. Ed, the president's got a lot riding on whether he can prove his leadership here. He's got to bring both sides together. But at the same time, he's got to not anger his liberal base by appearing to give up too much to conservatives.
ED HENRY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, you're right, Ali. It's positioning, it's politics but it's also policy. On the positioning, this president, you'll remember in December took a beating from liberals in his own party who thought he gave away too much in that tax deal in the lame duck session of Congress. Well, he can't have the same situation play out here where liberals might fear that he gives in too much to Republicans on spending cuts. He needs those liberals to be energized for his upcoming re-election battle.
And you've got the politics between he and Speaker Boehner. Everyone looking back to the '94, '95 budget and government shutdown fight there between Bill Clinton, Newt Gingrich. Who's going to get the blame this time if there's a government shutdown? But when you peel all that away, the policy is ultimately what matters to our viewers because the bottom line is, as Brianna was laying out, how this affects military pay, for example, it really affects real lives, all of this finger-pointing and blame game in Washington.
You have people, for example, with April 15th tax deadline coming up waiting for their refund checks. They're not going to get those if the government shuts down. So this affects real people, real lives.
CHETRY: Also, you know, one of the other interesting points is, I mean, we talk about these late night meetings, the president summoning both sides to the White House. Did he wait a long time to get involved in this historically speaking?
HENRY: Republicans certainly feel so. And you've heard top Republican aides on the Hill saying the president was on the sidelines for too long. He should have gotten more involved. The basic White House view is look, they didn't want him in the nitty-gritty for the last few weeks as all this battling was going on on the Hill, but now is the critical crunch time. And that's why we saw him literally working around the clock last night. They think he's getting in at just the right time, Kiran.
CHETRY: All right. Ed Henry for us. Thanks.
HENRY: Thank you.
ROMANS: Meanwhile, a direct appeal from Moammar Gadhafi to President Obama asking for an end to NATO air strikes falling on deaf ears at the White House. In a rambling three-page letter, Gadhafi asks the president to stop the, quote, "unjust war against his people." He says, quote, "Libya should be left to Libyans," end quote. "You are a man who has enough courage to annul a wrong and mistaken action." He says he hopes Obama gets reelected in 2012. And he says, quote, "You will always remain our son." In response, Secretary of State Clinton says Gadhafi knows what he has to do for the bombing to stop.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: I don't think there is any mystery about what is expected from Mr. Gadhafi at this time. That is, an international assessment. And the sooner that occurs and the bloodshed ends, the better it will be for everyone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: Our Nic Robertson right now, that big explosions, two explosions have been heard in central Tripoli and two aircraft have been seen overhead. According to Nic Robertson, bombing under way right now in Tripoli. Two explosions in central Tripoli.
Meantime, former Congressman Curt Weldon who's in Libya at Moammar Gadhafi's invitation is still waiting to see him. He says he'll urge Gadhafi to step down.
CHETRY: Well, the body of a second American has now been found in the wreckage in Japan in the wake of the earthquake and tsunami. His name was Monty Dixon from Alaska, 26 years old. His local paper says he was part of the Japanese exchange program, that he was teaching English at schools there. Meantime, the overall number of dead continues to rise in the wake of the devastation there. More than 12,500 people now confirmed dead and still 14,747 missing.
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will head to Japan next week where she's expected to meet with Japan's prime minister to talk about how to deal with the ongoing nuclear crisis and also recovery and reconstruction efforts along the destroyed coastline.
ROMANS: A smoldering wildfire spreading right now in Oklahoma. An evacuation has been ordered in Spencer that's just outside Oklahoma City where flames jumped several roads. They reportedly burned at least four homes now. More than 250 firefighters called in scrambling as wind gusts kept changing the direction of the flames.
VELSHI: Let's get a sense of the weather across the country right now. Nine minutes after the hour. Bonnie Schneider is with us in the Extreme Weather Center this morning.
Good morning, Bonnie.
BONNIE SCHNEIDER, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Ali. We are definitely looking at more fire danger for the west. In fact, red flag warnings are posted all the way from Colorado to Texas plus windy weather in the desert southwest and that will only aggravates conditions.
You know, it's been so dry across Oklahoma. It's the fourth driest three months of the year ever on record with a state rainfall total of only 2.3 inches. That is four inches below normal. So the gusts will be very strong and that's only going to aggravate the fire danger.
There is some rain out there but that's not going to help much. A lot of that is very light in intensity. And as we head to the northeast, we are also tracking some rain and, believe it or not, snow. That's right. A little bit of snow in parts of northern Pennsylvania in the mountains there. Otherwise, temperatures this morning in New York, 42 degrees, 34 in Boston. It's been really chilly there. Definitely a slow start to the spring season. It will warm up though into the 50s today. We'll look for more improving conditions.
Washington, D.C., already in the mid-40s. Your national map shows it's quiet right now in the southeast which is great after a very volatile storm system that rolled through a few days ago. But we've got more storms coming up as we go into the weekend. So this is just the beginning of an active spring severe weather season.
Back to you.
VELSHI: Bonnie, thanks very much. We'll check in with you through the course of the morning to see how that weather is going across the country.
ROMANS: OK. They promised a smaller government even if it means shutting it down. Why some of the Tea Parties say a government shutdown will teach Washington a lesson.
VELSHI: And talk about not learning a lesson. Another air traffic controller falls asleep on the job. This time it is no accident.
Ten minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Thirteen minutes past the hour. And some developments right now out of Libya. Our Ben Wedeman joins us right now from Ajdabiya, an eastern city in Libya, with the latest on some conflicts there.
Hi, Ben.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Hi. What we're hearing from eyewitnesses is that there was an airstrike on an opposition formation near Brega, about 10 kilometers, about seven miles to the east of there. According to this eyewitness, a plane flew over. They assumed it was NATO and didn't worry about it. But then it flew back again, apparently bombed their convoy which included a large bus of soldiers, and then came back for a second time and hit again. It's not clear the identity of the plane because they fly so high, but there haven't been any planes, Libyan air force planes in the sky for several weeks now.
I'm at the hospital in Ajdabiya where doctors here tell me that at least six people were injured and, of course, they're still bringing in ambulances. But of those six injured, several of them are in critical condition. This is, of course, if it is a NATO airstrike, it's the second time that NATO aircrafts have mistakenly hit forces of the opposition.
CHETRY: I know what you're saying is that it's still unclear as to who was flying this plane, who launched that strike. Did they know -- is it possible that Gadhafi's planes are still able to fly or were the NATO air strikes successful in damaging that air power capability? WEDEMAN: Well, our understanding was that a lot of that capability has been disabled. Some of the airstrips themselves have been disabled. And we did hear several days ago from a NATO official who says that 30 percent of the Libyan Army's military capabilities have been disabled, but we - we don't know.
Certainly there haven't been any Libyan Air Force planes in the sky for several weeks, actually, at least three weeks now. So it would be difficult for them to be up in the air at the moment.
CHETRY: All right. Ben Wedeman bringing us the latest right now on a breaking situation there in an area near Brega where they say that they were the - the targets of a strike from a plane. Thanks so much.
ROMANS: Nic Robertson just reporting that a couple of big explosions in Central Tripoli in the last few minutes, actually.
VELSHI: Right. So he - he's on the government-controlled side of things.
ROMANS: That's right.
VELSHI: Ben is in the opposition-controlled side. So while there might be some sense of these being coordinated attacks, what Ben says is very troubling, that he is saying that they are seeing rebels being wounded, six people transported to hospital. We've already had one instance where NATO has mistakenly attacked the rebels. This is where it starts to get confusing and difficult.
ROMANS: And rebel leaders have complained that they don't feel as if there's enough coordination with NATO.
VELSHI: Right.
ROMANS: They said they've been calling in exactly this is where we need help and they haven't been getting that help.
VELSHI: But you got to imagine that that's complicated.
ROMANS: Oh, yes.
VELSHI: That these are rebels who have had virtually no training.
ROMANS: That's right.
VELSHI: No logistics training. What are you calling in? You know -
ROMANS: That's right.
VELSHI: I don't know. Maybe there's a communication issue.
ROMANS: Absolutely.
VELSHI: But very troubling news. We'll stay on top of it for you.
This story is amazing, about this another air traffic controller busted for sleeping on the job during overnight hours. This time, though, officials say he did it on purpose. Listen to this. It happened at -
CHETRY: McGhee - this is McGhee Tyson.
VELSHI: McGhee Tyson Airport right in Knoxville, Tennessee. He slept for five hours. His co-worker landed seven planes by himself. So, apparently there was some kind of agreement between the two of them. It happened back in February. It was only revealed yesterday during a Congressional hearing.
Now, this worker is in the process of being fired. Second sanction is less than three months. As you know in March, a controller at the Reagan National Airport fell asleep during a midnight shift and a couple of planes had to land themselves.
CHETRY: But what's even scarier in that one is that there was nobody managing (ph).
VELSHI: There's nobody, right.
CHETRY: That was a huge - I mean, Reagan International Airport.
VELSHI: This guy just had his buddy take care of things.
ROMANS: All right. A government shutdown much closer to reality this morning. You may have heard the sound bites, the talking points. You've seen the numbers. But what do you think?
According to a Gallup Poll by almost a 2 to 1 margin, Americans want their representatives to reach a compromise.
VELSHI: Yes. The Tea Party helped bring the GOP back into power in the House of Representatives with a promise that they will shrink the size of government, which by the way, means the budget. Now many in the party are saying a promise is a promise. Bring on a government shutdown.
Jim Acosta live in Washington. Wow, Jim, this is getting - it's getting very close. Closer than we've -
ROMANS: That's right.
VELSHI: -- been to a shutdown the last couple of times.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right.
VELSHI: And the Tea Party's holding tight.
ACOSTA: They are. They are ratcheting up the rhetoric, guys. And, as you both know, leaders in both parties say they don't want a government shutdown, but some in the Tea Party hope that's exactly what happens saying it will teach Washington a lesson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shut it down, shut it down!
ACOSTA (voice-over): As the clock ticks toward a shutdown, the Tea Party is turning up the heat. At a rally near the steps of the Capitol, conservative activists urge Republicans to stand and fight.
ACOSTA (on camera): You would support a government shutdown?
DAVID WILLIAMS, TAXPAYER PROTECTION ALLIANCE: Absolutely. It's time for taxpayers to take back the government and ley's shut it down for a few days. It's not going to come to a catastrophic end.
ACOSTA (voice-over): Indiana Republican Mike Pence was right there with them.
REP. MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: Liberals in the Senate would rather play political games and force a government shutdown instead of accepting a modest down payment on fiscal discipline and reform. I say shut it down.
CROWD: Shut it down, shut it down!
ACOSTA: But not all Tea Partiers are sure that's a good idea. Despite appearances.
JOHN OLTESVIG, TEA PARTY ACTIVIST: Shut 'er down.
ACOSTA (on camera): And you're saying shut the government down?
OLTESVIG: I don't want to shut the government down. I'm making a point.
ACOSTA: And what's that?
OLTESVIG: That's we need to get serious about cutting our budget. We don't even have a budget. We're a year late in getting a budget.
ACOSTA: And so what about why hold a sign that says shut 'er down if you don't want to shut her down?
OLTESVIG: Making a point.
REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: Here's the extremist that I like to hang with.
ACOSTA: Republican Michele Bachmann also stops short of calling for a shutdown, telling CNN she thinks a deal will happen.
ACOSTA (on camera): Do you think we're going to get to a shutdown, Congresswoman? What do you think at this point?
BACHMANN: I actually think that we will see a resolution by Friday. I think that in all likelihood it will happen.
ACOSTA (voice-over): That would be good news for thousands of federal employees who would be deemed nonessential by their agencies and furloughed. MELANIE DIXON, EMPLOYEE, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION: I'm concerned. I'm concerned about the delay. I'm concerned about being able to pay my mortgage. I'm concerned about being able to pay my bills.
ACOSTA: Democrats point out some of those workers performs critical tasks like medical researchers.
SEN. BARBARA MIKULSKI (D), MARYLAND: I know you're working on that (INAUDIBLE) cure for cancer. I know you're working on that cure for Alzheimer's or autism or arthritis, sticking just with the "A" words.
But you know what? Washington, the Congress says you're nonessential.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: And as for those calls to shut 'er down, even Republican Mike Pence is showing some wiggle room this morning. The Tea Party favorite has released a statement saying he could sign on to another stop gap spending measure to avoid one of the big consequences of a shutdown, military troops not getting their pay on time, guys.
ROMANS: Now, Jim, what Tea Party people like to say a lot is that, look, this is the 2011 budget. That was something that a Republican - oh, I'm sorry, Democratic president, Democratic controlled Congress couldn't get done last year. So why are you blaming us?
ACOSTA: That's right.
ROMANS: You know, we're just making a point after Democrats didn't do their job. Is that sort of the message that they keep - they keep giving?
ACOSTA: Well, their message is, is basically with the Republicans, a deal is a deal. And if you look at some of the e-mails coming from the Tea Party Nation, just one of the Tea Party groups out there, they're just as nasty with John Boehner. They call John Boehner words that even Democrats aren't calling John Boehner at this point. So they're very angry with Republicans for not holding the line here.
ROMANS: Yes.
ACOSTA: And there will be major disappointment inside some sections of the Tea Party if this government does not shut down and the Republicans don't get everything that they want.
CHETRY: But, you know - and it's - I'm just wondering, we keep saying 42 hours still shutdown. I know you've been in Washington a long time. The last time this happened, Congress actually agreed on a bill, sent it to the president and it was vetoed. This time they haven't even agreed on a bill.
VELSHI: Right.
ACOSTA: That's right. And one big difference between then and now is that in 1995 and 1996, the economy was not in the throes -
ROMANS: Right.
VELSHI: Right.
ACOSTA: -- of a very weak recovery. And so we're in uncharted waters here. Government shutdown could have major unintended consequences.
As, you know, Mark Zandi, a noted economist, said yesterday that this could throw the country into possibly a recession. So lots of unintended consequences.
ROMANS: And another economist yesterday from Capitol Economics has been trying to say it would shave one percentage point off GDP. That means -
VELSHI: Yes.
CHETRY: We can't afford -
VELSHI: And they're talking necessarily crazy liberal economist (INAUDIBLE).
All right. Thanks. We'll stay on top of this with you, Jim. Appreciate it.
ACOSTA: Sounds good.
VELSHI: All right.
ROMANS: You might have noticed, you guys, that your local mall is running on empty. Find out what these shopping centers are doing to plug the growing number of vacancies. Have you noticed this?
VELSHI: I have, yes.
ROMANS: There's a lot of empty storefronts in the local mall.
VELSHI: Twenty-two minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: We're "Minding Your Business" this morning with Alison Kosik. And an interesting story about fewer stores competing for your money at the local mall. What's happening?
ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's because we're seeing more vacancies at the local mall. And it's not just at the mall. It's about strip centers as well. Especially if you live out in the suburbs, you know, you're seeing a lot more vacancies. Those empty storefronts.
And you have to wonder, you know, how did we get here? You know, it started with the big housing boom, and then we had all the construction start. They're thinking, well, as you know it if we build it, they will come. But apparently that did not happen when the bottom of the housing market fell out. So what's happening now is mall vacancies are at their highest point almost a decade, because people are spending less and they're spending differently. They're spending online as well. So you're seeing major retailers are just closing up shop at this point.
I mean, when was the last time you saw Linens 'N Things or Circuit City or a Borders.
ROMANS: Right.
KOSIK: You know, Borders is right now in the middle of dealing with its bankruptcy. So, you know, landlords are having to get creative. You know, because they're scared. You know, they're not going to be making any money if no one there renting their - leasing their space.
So what they're doing is they're letting even colleges use the space in malls to have classrooms there. They're renting the space for entertainment and dance studios as well. There are even amusement park rides in some of these strip centers just to draw people in. Because, you know, once you lose that anchor store like the supermarket -
VELSHI: Right.
KOSIK: -- or the Mervyns, you remember Mervyns?
CHETRY: Yes.
KOSIK: You know, there's less of a draw to your - to your strip mall.
VELSHI: The discounters, though, not doing badly. So while people don't want them in some of these "A" malls -
CHETRY: Right.
VELSHI: -- the fact is they are drawing people in.
KOSIK: And landlords are doing that. They're bringing in the discounting stores when they used to shun those discounting stores. No way. We're not putting those Payless Shoe Stores in our strip mall. Now they're saying, yes, come on, we need your money.
ROMANS: But, we know there's so much of a consumer spending over the past couple of decades with money people took out of their house.
VELSHI: Yes.
ROMANS: There was no money to take out of their house.
KOSIK: Exactly.
ROMANS: So a lot of that, the malls, the Big Box stores in the strip they were all carried by home equity and it is not there now.
KOSIK: It's gone now.
ROMANS: So that's what's changed. All right.
VELSHI: Thanks, Alison.
ROMANS: Thanks very much, Alison Kosik.
CHETRY: Well, still ahead, the NAACP plastering billboards all across the country slamming the government spending and getting some support from some surprising new allies. We're going to bring that story coming up.
It's 27 minutes past the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING.
It's 30 minutes past the hour right now, time for your top stories.
Well, after a late night meeting at the White House, still no agreement on a budget. And that means that we're facing a government shutdown midnight Friday. Eight hundred thousand federal workers would be furloughed. Military paychecks would be delayed if a deal can't be reached on spending.
New in Japan this morning, the body of a second American has now been found in the wreckage. Monty Jackson, 26 years old, was from Alaska. He was in Japan teaching English at schools there.
And at least two people were killed in an airstrike on an opposition convoy near the Libyan town of al Brega. CNN's Ben Wedeman, we just had him on with us, is reporting that it's unclear if this was a NATO airstrike or if pro-Gadhafi forces were responsible.
Meantime, Moammar Gadhafi himself wrote a letter, a rambling letter to President Obama, asking to end the NATO military campaign over Libya, calling it an unjust war. The White House is rejecting the appeals saying that Gadhafi needs to withdraw his forces from rebel-held cities and agree to give up power and leave.
ROMANS: The NAACP finding unlikely allies in a new campaign blasting government spending. The civil rights group says the U.S. spends too much on prisons and that's hurting our education system. They're plastering their message on billboards around the country and finding support among some more conservative activists.
Joining us now is the president of the NAACP, Ben Jealous, and the president of Americans for Tax Reform, Grover Norquist.
Gentlemen, thank you for joining us.
A fascinating, fascinating report when you go through here and you see how government spending on prisons has increased much more quickly than government spending on education. We spend about three times as much per person to incarcerate someone as we do to educate someone. That's been constant for a while.
What does this report show us that's new about this relationship between the two?
I'll start with you, Ben.
BEN JEALOUS, PRESIDENT & CEO, NAACP: Sure. Well, that ratio goes way up when you look at kids. In the state of California, we spend $248,000 per year to put one kid behind bars. In the state of Connecticut, $400,000. That's about 40 times what they spend.
But, you know, the point of this, the real point here is that our system is just too big. We have 5 percent of the world's people and 25 percent of the world's prisoner. We spend way too much to -- for that and we don't get much for it. I mean, if you look at the state of New York, it has significantly reduced its people in prison and crime has fallen 16 percent. If you look at the state of Florida, it has significantly grown it and it's risen by 16 percent. All of this over the past 10 years.
And so, we're saying is, look, there are smarter ways to deal with this problem. You take somebody who is using drugs. Right now, in most states, half or more of the people behind bars are there for low level, nonviolent drug issues. We should be sending them to rehab, not to prison.
You know, a poor drug addict needs the same thing that a rich drug addict does. They need Betty Ford. They don't need prison.
ROMANS: Grover, let me ask you. When you talk about -- you look at some of these specific towns, in Philly, for example, 66 percent of low-performing schools are in or very near neighborhoods with high incarceration rates. In Houston, 83 percent of low-performing schools are in neighborhoods with high rates of incarceration. In L.A., it's 67 percent.
But what is that relationship? Is it that in areas where the schools are bad people are more likely to go to prison? Or in places where there are a lot of prisons, there are families that don't have the support that you need at home to make sure the kids are getting the best out of their education system? Which goes first?
GROVER NORQUIST, PRESIDENT, AMERICANS FOR TAX REFORM: Well, where I think the NAACP and taxpayer groups can agree both at the national level and state by state, progress has been made in Texas, legislations being introduced in Florida to ask -- look, some people deserve to be in prison because they're dangerous and you want them in prison. Some people can be dealt with outside of prison through rehabilitation, through home incarceration, through parole and probation.
The question that -- what we haven't been doing is deciding very well to distinguish between people who you want in prison because they're just too dangerous to have out of prison and people that you're just mad at and you want to throw a shoe at them and tell them to straighten up. Well, you don't have to do that at $50,000 a year, plus in prison.
So, let's rethink how many people are in prison and for how long and begin to make distinctions between people who are so dangerous they need to be in prison for a long time or forever, and people who are not dangerous, out on the street. But you want some sort of self- control ultimately, but some sort of control to help move them away from drugs.
ROMANS: Right. I love this conversation right now. And it's such an important conversation about children. It's about how we treat criminals. It's about what our goals and our focus is as a society.
And it comes on a day when we don't even know if we can pass any kind of budget in this country. You know? I mean, on the one hand, these are important questions to be asking the relationship between, you know, funding for education and funding for prisons and how many people we're putting in prisons. On the other hand, do we trust our politicians to be able to, you know, cut spending on prisons but funnel that money to education in the right way?
You know, Grover, let me ask -- I'll ask both of you that question. I mean, what are your hopes that a Congress that's very divided can handle issues like this?
NORQUIST: Well, look, both -- there are people on the left and people on the right who see that we're spending too much on prisons. We're not necessarily getting good things for it. We're not reducing crime with everybody we put in prison. So, we ought to be putting fewer people in prison and focus on getting crime down.
When taxpayers and the government save that money, then we may have serious disagreement about, in my view, that money should stay in the hands of taxpayers. Others might say, well, let's spend it somewhere else. That's a second conversation. But the first one is, let's spend more wisely and not keep spending more on prisons.
ROMANS: And, Ben, you might not agree with Grover down the road when we're talking about what we do with that money. But right now you're in full agreement.
All right. Grover Norquist, thank you so much. Also, Ben Jealous. Gentlemen, an excellent and very illuminating report. Thank you, guys
JEALOUS: Thank you.
NORQUIST: Thank you.
VELSHI: All right. I want to tell you a little more about this violent standoff that continues in the Ivory Coast. The president is refusing to leave months after losing an election. Coming up next: we've got dramatic video of French troops under U.N. supervision rescuing the Japanese ambassador after soldiers stormed his residence.
And after that --
CHETRY: On a different note.
VELSHI: Taking a village at the -- it's taking a village at the Houston zoo to raise a baby orangutan after she was rejected by her mother. This thing is just too cute for words. We're going to show you how they're doing it, and maybe give you a chance to name this little baby.
Thirty-seven minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Forty minutes past the hour right now. In the West African nation of Ivory Coast, some dramatic new video this morning. French troops rescued a Japanese ambassador after he was caught up in the violent unrest taking place there.
Our Zain Verjee joins us from London.
Hi, Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kiran.
Let's go straight to this video. It came in a few moments ago. I want to show it to you.
What happened was, was that gunmen apparently attacked the French -- sorry, the Japanese embassy, which is in a diplomatic area near the presidential palace, and they were on rooftops. They were apparently firing machine guns and RPGs and it was really an awful situation. The ambassador said that this siege went on for something like five hours, in an interview. And he and about seven other embassy officials went into this safe room and they hid out until the French came in by a helicopter and engaged these gunmen and then dramatically rescued the ambassador.
So, you know, this -- there are a lot of different embassies in this area, guys. And there's so much fighting going on around this area. So, it could be something that we could see again. But the Japanese ambassador is very scared in the video that we got, but very lucky that he got out.
VELSHI: So, Zain, we've been -- we're trying to get our people as close to this as possible. There are obviously some major safety concerns of being there. But what we heard yesterday was that the president, the president who won't leave, Laurent Gbagbo, other forces broke into his residence, his compound.
Why can they not get him out of his bunker? Who is left supporting him? And how is it that he's managing to evade capture by both the opposition forces and the French and the U.N. troops that are there?
VERJEE: Great question, Ali. We're all trying to figure this out. No one knows quite exactly what is going on.
He's still holed up, Laurent Gbagbo, the president who just won't go, in the presidential palace. Some reports say he's in a bunker. But he was in an interview saying himself, "I'm not in the bunker. I'm in the presidential palace." He has a few people loyal to him but really not that many. Now, his rival Alassane Ouattara who is the elected president and the world thinks so, too, says he's in there and wants to get him out. But one thing he doesn't want to do is kill him. He wants to capture him, arrest him and have him stand trial.
VELSHI: All right. Zain, thank you very much for that. This continues to be a very strange situation.
ROMANS: On and on.
VELSHI: We'll stay on top of it for you.
CHETRY: Meantime, Zain can be seen every weekday morning at 5:00 a.m. Eastern here, on "WORLD ONE," but here on CNN.
ROMANS: OK. Forecasters this year are calling for a big hurricane season. That, plus Bonnie Schneider with all the weather headlines, right after this break.
And the accidental tenor. One man who lost everything in the recession and he turns to music. Listen to that. And now, he's on his way to becoming an opera star. Talk about job reinvention. That's story, ahead.
VELSHI: It's 43 minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROMANS: A really active hurricane season on the horizon. Researchers at Colorado State University, guys, say there's a 72 percent chance a major hurricane will slam the U.S. There was a 72 percent chance. Major hurricanes category 3 or higher are strong enough, as you all know, to crush houses, cause widespread power outages.
Researchers predict 16 total storms will hit the Atlantic. Nine will strengthen to hurricane status. Five major hurricanes are expected to form. The season starts June 1st and ends in November.
CHETRY: The interesting thing about this, though, is that they put out a forecast of the number of storms, but the ironic part is that last year was a very busy year as well, but it's where they hit.
VELSHI: That's right. They don't make landfall.
CHETRY: Right. Where they don't hit at very populated areas.
VELSHI: It doesn't have the same effect. Bonnie will be busy checking this out, but right now, she's busy telling us about what's going on in the country. I'm hoping Bonnie Schneider that you have no hurricanes to tell us about.
SCHNEIDER: Good morning. No, it's a little too early for that, but, you know, we are talking about these predictions because we're getting closer to hurricane season. And you mentioned last year being very active. It was. In 2010, there were 19 named storms. Most of the activity including the major hurricanes that occurred hit Mexico and Central America. So, that's why people in the U.S. might think, oh, well 2010 wasn't so bad.
Actually, it was very bad. 2011 looks like it will be above averages. Well, as you can see by the prediction here made by Colorado State University. Let's zoom in and you can see the number of named storms for an average year versus what we are anticipating for this season, and it is pretty high.
Well, back to the U.S. mainland, we are checking out fire danger today. Once again, Oklahoma really suffering from brutally dry winds and hot temperatures. That all coming together with gusts up to 45 miles per hour are going to make for more fire danger. The red flag warnings are in place because we are expecting more danger there. Notice also, windy weather across the desert southwest including Las Vegas and into California, and then some scattered showers across the southwest, as well.
The rain is more steady in the northeast, and it's also snowing in some areas like in the mountains of Pennsylvania. We're tracking some light snow falling there just on the border with New York State. And speaking of New York, it's about 42 degrees in New York City. A little colder as you head up state to the right around the freezing mark towards Binghamton, and then, towards D.C., the temperature is going to holding steady in the 40s.
Colder in Boston where we had some April snow. I don't think we're seeing that right now. Across the country for snow, watch out for quite a bit of it across much of the Rocky Mountain States. Windy weather, as I mentioned, in the west, then sunshine for the southeast. Really, really nice here in cities like Atlanta for today.
And the temperatures, actually, for much of the eastern half of the country are on the way up. They will be rising well into the 80s especially as we get towards the weekend. Today, 83 in New Orleans, 70 in Washington, D.C. So, that will be nice for the cherry blossom festival to enjoy that. Back to you.
CHETRY: I mean, they're so gorgeous, and then, they fall off so quickly.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHNEIDER: It's so brief.
VELSHI: There will be all there is to do in Washington if there's a shutdown.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHNEIDER: Yes, you can't shut down cherry blossoms.
CHETRY: Yes, right. I guess, you just have to walk basin --
VELSHI: As you walk out and look at cherry blossoms. Let's hope they stay a little longer. Bonnie, thanks very much.
Love this story coming up. ROMANS: Me, too. We need a mascot for this show. I wonder --
VELSHI: And I think that we're about to have a perfect one.
CHETRY: Wonderful caregivers.
A baby orangutan at the Houston Zoo is getting some extra TLC from her handler. This baby was born last month and then rejected by the mother shortly after --
VELSHI: Who could reject that?
CHETRY: I don't -- I guess -- some 50 zoo staffers have stepped in. A surrogate mom. Look at that yawn. No easy task because orangutans cling to their mothers.
ROMANS: Wow.
CHETRY: I mean, you've seen these pictures where they're just literally like hanging on their mother's backs or stomach, but the entire first year of their life. So, that's why they need so many people to care for this little thing. They're like helpless, and they just love to be held. Oh, so cute. The zoo, by the way, is having a contest to name her.
How's this for a segue, though. At 8:40 eastern, we're going to be speaking to world renowned primatologist, Jane Goodall. Her life is a set (ph) of a new children's book.
(CROSSTALK)
VELSHI: Yes. I'm not that big on children's books. I have no particular --
ROMANS: Yes. Ali read it to us before the show.
VELSHI: I did. It was really a nice book.
ROMANS: All right. The top stories minutes away, including still, you know, so set in your ways that you can't watch TV on your PC? I personally can't do this. I watch TV on the TVs. YouTube is getting to make over that make you feel a little comfortable.
VELSHI: Forty-nine minutes after the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: You may not yet know who he is, but you won't forget his story. A businessman down on his love turned to music and actually found his voice.
VELSHI: Alina Cho joins us now with his story. This is great.
CHO: It's really one of the most heartwarming stories I've heard in a long time. You guys, know, this very well. You know, since the recession started, we have heard so many stories about people losing their jobs, finding their passion, and then starting a new career doing something they absolutely love, but none like the story of Andy Lunsford. He lost his business, but what he found was a gift that few have, the ability to sing opera.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(SINGING)
CHO (voice-over): Call him the accidental tenor. Hard to believe just a few years ago, Andy Lunsford was selling granite countertops. When the economy went south, so did his business.
ANDY LUNSFORD, ACCIDENTAL TENOR: You feel the weight of the world on your shoulders at that time. And I think I was just looking for anything that could lighten the load. So, I had the CD on my desktop. And I put it into my CD player and I turned it on and I just shut my eyes. I just tried to breathe and relax and listen and just started getting interesting.
CHO: Then he got really interesting.
ANDY LUNSFORD: And then, I just found myself singing out to it. And I found that I could sing loud and I could sing high.
(LAUGHTER)
ANDY LUNSFORD: And I had no idea I could do that.
CHO: Neither did his wife.
KENYA LUNSFORD, ANDY'S WIFE: I did kind of turn my ear a little more to listen, and I thought, he can really hit those high notes. He can sing louder than I can.
CHO: So, Andy Lunsford just shy of age 30, took a chance. He applied to opera schools and to his surprise --
ANDY LUNSFORD: I got scholarships everywhere. There were schools fighting over me a little bit.
CHO: How did that feel?
ANDY LUNSFORD: Oh, great. Validating, of course.
(LAUGHTER)
CHO: He settled on Indiana University's Jacobs School of Music, one of the best in the world. And uprooted his family, moving from Suburban Denver to Bloomington, Indiana, where the Lunsfords live on food stamps. So, this 31-year-old can focus full time on his craft.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's an amazing instrument. He's like a Stradivarius, you know?
CHO: A star student who recently traveled to Los Angeles to perform for real stars like Harrison Ford. The dean says Lunsford's story is as unique as his voice.
You say you know it when you hear it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
CHO: It's sort of chilling, isn't it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is. You get goose bumps. Your feet tap. People hold hands. When you watch an audience, you can tell whether they're being moved or not.
CHO: And Andy has that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got that.
CHO: Even though some might ask, a career in opera?
Is he nuts?
ANDY LUNSFORD: Probably.
(LAUGHTER)
ANDY LUNSFORD: I -- you know, is there ever a good time to start a career in opera?
(LAUGHTER)
(SINGING)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHO (on-camera): Ain't that the truth. And you heard it right. At age 30, he enrolled at the Jacobs School of Music. He was the oldest freshman in his class. No surprise there, but isn't that just an incredible story?
VELSHI: I love that he addressed the question I was sitting here because Christine and I just talked endlessly about what jobs you should or shouldn't sort of guide yourself to. I'm not sure --
ROMANS: This isn't even on the list of the most --
CHO: No, it's not.
VELSHI: But, I guess, he gets it. He's going to work hard, at least, that glib. What did his trainer describe him as, a Stradivarius?
CHO: Well, you know, he said, listen, I had nothing to lose. I lost my business. He said we lost our cars, we lost our home, but we also didn't have any bills. And so, he said, if he hadn't tried this, he'd wonder for the rest of his life. And good for him. And look at him now.
CHETRY: And he truly has a gift. Did he sing at all before this?
CHO: He said he didn't.
ROMANS: I think he's a wonderful role model for his kids, too, finding your passion and taking a chance.
CHO: I mean, I think we're lucky because we all love what we do, but there are a lot of people who don't and really should start to think in this recession if they lose their job, right?
VELSHI: Just a great example.
CHO: Find it.
ROMANS: Thanks, Alina.
VELSHI: Absolutely.
CHO: You bet.
CHETRY: Top stories coming your way right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
