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Federal Government Shutdown Nears; Tea Party's Power; Donald Trump Continues to Push Birther Line; Interview With Interim DNC Chair Donna Brazile; "Troops Shouldn't Serve on an IOU"; The Case of the Red Sole Shoes
Aired April 08, 2011 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, always good to see you.
Is this just a lot of brinkmanship here and they're just waiting until the last minute and just want to be dramatic?
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Oh, it's a good question.
It looks like there shouldn't be a government shutdown. They're not that far apart on the numbers, not that far apart on some of the substantive issues involved. If there's a will, there's a way. They could certainly work it out.
Here's something interesting that I think our viewers will be interested in. Karl Rove, the Republican strategist who helped President Bush get elected twice, he's now written a memo to other Republicans recalling that back in '95, during the first Republican shutdown, the Republicans paid a huge price. The Democrats won the fallout, the political fallout from that earlier government shutdown.
President Clinton was reelected the following year. He writes this. He said: "The shutdowns helped improved Clinton's political standing, boosting both his approval rating and perceptions of him as a strong leader."
And he's warning Republicans, Karl Rove, to a certain degree, don't be so sure that times have changed right now, because President Obama who is up for reelection next year could be boosted, just like Bill Clinton was boosted, if he shows resolve and fights the Republicans.
Newt Gingrich, by the way, who was then the House speaker, is now thinking of running for president, for the Republican presidential nomination, not surprisingly, he's blaming President Obama for this current stalemate right now. But we shouldn't be all that surprised about that.
On this other issue you were talking about, T.J., Donald Trump over the past few weeks really going very heavily on the so-called birther issue, whether in fact President Bush was born in the United States. Marco Rubio, the newly elected Republican senator from Florida, very popular among the Republicans, he's telling Donald Trump to lay off on this. "I would suggest," he says, "if he asked for my opinion, not to focus so much on that issue." Rubio said, "There are more important things facing our country. I believe Barack Obama was born in the United States of America. So why are we talking about this?" That is Marco Rubio indirectly talking to Donald Trump.
Trump, by the way, did meet with an Arizona State representative, Carl Seel, who has got legislation saying that anybody who wants to run for president has to prove in fact that he or she was born in the United States. So that debate will continue, at least for now.
We're going to have all of the latest developments coming up in THE SITUATION ROOM on what is going on with the proposed shutdown. We will see what is going on, on that front, lots of news happening today, as usual -- back to you, T.J.
HOLMES: As usual.
One thing quickly for you, Wolf. We are hearing now the president had -- had a weekend trip scheduled. He's possibly canceling that. What should that tell us?
BLITZER: That he's going to be working this weekend. Even if they miss the deadline, midnight deadline, there's still -- there's one school of thought that says, you know what, they can continue negotiating over the weekend and as long as by Monday morning everybody is back at work, they still have an extra 48 hours, even if there is technically a shutdown midnight Friday night.
So I don't think he wants to be seen sightseeing in Williamsburg if in fact there is a government shutdown. He canceled his trip to Indiana that had been scheduled for today as well. So he's getting ready. I assume at some point, before this whole thing is over with one way or another, he will meet with Harry Reid and Speaker John Boehner one more time to see if they can work out some sort of deal.
Maybe they won't be able to work out a deal for the whole current fiscal year, but maybe another clean what they call continuing resolution bill to keep the government going for another week or 10 days, let them continue negotiating and fighting against themselves. At least 800,000 people won't lose their jobs.
HOLMES: All right. Wolf, we will see you here in about an hour in "THE SIT ROOM." Thanks so much, buddy.
And to our viewers, here we are. We are now seven hours, 56 minutes away now possibly from your federal government shutting down. Still no deal, also no talks going on at the White House. A lot of talking going on, on Capitol Hill though, a lot of angry talk we're seeing on Capitol Hill.
Senators have been going back and forth all day, some of it substantive, some of it not. House Republicans, Senate Democrats kind of doing back and forth here. There is still some talking still going on, however.
We're going to get more about that here in just a moment.
But, first, I want you to hear what the Democrats are saying. Listen to Senator Patty Murray of Washington State as she kind of sums up the Democratic position. This was her just a moment ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. PATTY MURRAY (D), WASHINGTON: Hours before a shutdown, when families are worried about paychecks, when people are worried about whether or not their FHA house is closing next Wednesday and it will fall through, whether or not the contract that they have in place is going to be kept, how they are going to pay their mortgage, and about the deficits, they are being told it's no longer about that. It's about taking away the rights of millions of women in this country to get access to preventive care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: That has been the Democratic line for most of the day, right, Dana Bash, who is on Capitol Hill for us here? That's been the Democratic line. You are hearing something else from Republicans. What exactly are they arguing about right now? Do we even know? We know what they're arguing about publicly, but behind the scenes, what is holding this up?
DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They are arguing about arguing. That's what they are arguing about, Don (sic).
Behind the scenes, there definitely are still discussions going on, discussions going on between high-level staffers on both sides of the aisle. But, look, I think at this point, as you said, we are really just hours away.
The feeling -- the growing feeling among Republicans and Democrats is that, to be honest with you, they are saying that they do believe it's just a matter of time before they find an agreement, that it's hard to see either side allowing the government to shut down, and that they really are getting closer.
Having said that, you do hear Democrats in a pretty remarkable way staying on message, talking about the fact that this is just a women's health issue, and Republicans saying, no, no, no, this is a spending issue. A lot of that -- to be honest with you, much of that is public posturing to try to get the best political footing on this as we head into the last hours.
HOLMES: All right. And we are hearing back and forth, as certainly you were watching on Capitol Hill, we were watching it here today as well, hearing that, yes, Boehner was given a number -- or Boehner gave the president a number. The president says yes. But that is not exactly what happened, according to Speaker Boehner. Let's take a quick listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: But we are not going to roll over and sell out the American people, like it has been done time and time again here in Washington. When we say we are serious about cutting spending, we are damn serious about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Can you tell us who is doing the talking? There were not meetings at the White House today. Are Boehner and Reid in contact today or are their staffers essentially locked down in a room trying to work things out?
BASH: Both. They have spoken by phone. The staffers have spoken by phone. President Obama, T.J., has spoken to both the House speaker and to the Senate majority leader.
But, look, at this point, it's kind of hard to imagine that when you listen to what is going on in public that they actually could come to an agreement in private, but I could tell you that even -- let's just take an example of women's health, the social issue.
I have spoken to some Republicans who are very conservative socially who have said, look, you know what, at this point, the spending issue, the number issue is more important. So hearing that and sensing that, perhaps you can see that this is moving closer to a deal. But you know what? We will see what the final number is. The discussions are continuing, but it's getting close.
HOLMES: All right. Dana Bash on Capitol Hill for us, Dana, we appreciate you. As well, we might be talking to you shortly because news has been popping all day on Capitol Hill. We never know. It could happen any minute. We will go back to Capitol Hill as we need to.
Meanwhile, Democrats are saying the Tea Party movement is influencing Republicans to hold up a deal on the budget. So what exactly is the Tea Party demanding? Is this really over spending? Or is this about something else?
Republican Congressman Tom Price is going to be here with me. We are now seven hours and 52 minutes from your government possibly shutting down.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Well, now about seven hours and 49 minutes from your government possibly shutting down. The flurry of activity continues on Capitol Hill right now.
I want to join -- or joining me, rather, House Republican Tom Price of Georgia. He's on Capitol Hill for us now, also a member of the Tea Party Caucus.
REP. TOM PRICE (R), GEORGIA: Hey, T.J.
HOLMES: Sir, good to have you here with us.
PRICE: Great to be with you. HOLMES: Tell me, first of all, the number we keep hearing, $38 billion in additional cuts was presented to the president by Speaker Boehner. The president says yes. Let's just start with this. If there were $38 billion in additional cuts in this proposed budget, is that something you could support?
PRICE: Well, I think it still remains conjecture, because I think the negotiations, the conversations are still ongoing.
What we put up yesterday was the spending for the troops, to make sure we pay for the Department of Defense, had $12 billion for one week, support for Israel, and then a prohibition on taxpayer funding for D.C. abortion. That's what is in the Senate's lap right now. They could easily pass that and we would be able to continue talking.
HOLMES: But, Representative Price, we at some point have to pass a budget. And if we are this close -- and I say we -- you guys, if you all are that close -- and you say it's conjecture with a number, $38 billion. I will give you that. OK?
So let's just, me and you, pretend for a second that it actually is $38 billion. Is $38 billion a number you can live with?
PRICE: Well, it depends what else is there. The original bill that we passed was $61 billion in reductions for this fiscal year, with almost 40 or 50 what are called riders, as you well know.
HOLMES: Yes.
PRICE: And some of those have to be included in this because they are policy changes that we believe are paramount.
So whether it's the $61 billion, whether it's $38 billion, what else is in that package, that's where we need to be looking to see whether or not there's a deal.
HOLMES: And, Representative Price, you know how this conversation has certainly turned today, with the dueling speeches, the dueling press conferences. And it seemed to -- we hear a lot about Planned Parenthood today.
So, I will ask you, the American people thought this was all about agreeing on a number, but now it seems to be about some ideology and whether or not Planned Parenthood should get some funding. For you, sir, is it just a matter of numbers for you, or do you will not be able to support something that still allows some federal funding for Planned Parenthood?
PRICE: Well, I think our friends on the other side actually recognized that they were losing this debate, and so they wanted to shift it from the numbers. And I think they have put a paper tiger out there.
We believe that the taxpayer funding of D.C. abortions, which the president has already signed in previous legislation, ought to be included in this. We also believe that the -- repealing the funding for Planned Parenthood ought to be included in this or some legislation that is must-pass legislation.
But the real battle here is about spending. That's what the American people are sick and tired of. That is the level of spending here in Washington.
HOLMES: But I want to make sure, sir, that what I'm hearing from you is that it's a matter of spending and not ideology. Do you have a problem with any federal money going towards Planned Parenthood?
PRICE: Well, sure I have a problem with that, but this battle right now is about spending. We're trying to save the most amount of money for the American people. And that's what they sent us here to Washington to do.
HOLMES: What is your problem? You said of course you have a problem. What is your problem with that money going towards what Democrats say at least an organization that provides so many health services for lower-income women?
PRICE: Well, what the vast majority of the American people believe is that it's not appropriate to use taxpayer money to fund abortion services.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLMES: OK. We all agree. Yes, that's illegal. And we know that. But are you saying that Planned Parenthood is doing something illegal with the money they are getting from the federal government? Because their money, they say, and the federal government says is not going towards abortions.
PRICE: Well, I think they're being disingenuous when they say that. Everybody knows that that's one of the primary purposes of the organization.
So, what we will fight on, whether it's on this or another must- pass bill, is to make certain, as we did on H.R.-1, as we did on the first deficit bill, first spending bill, is to make certain that we don't fund Planned Parenthood.
But this battle right now is about spending. And what we want to do is save the most amount of money for the American people.
HOLMES: All right.
And, sir, I hate to deliver this point, but it's so important to make sure we get answers from you guys, because you're saying the American people know. Yes, we know that Planned Parenthood does provide abortion. But this is now a big part of this debate here.
So, we're trying to hear from you all -- well, what is your -- is the problem exactly? And you won't go as far as saying that federal money is being used for abortion.
PRICE: I think it is. I think we've said that.
HOLMES: You think Planned Parenthood is using federal money to fund abortions?
PRICE: I do. Absolutely.
HOLMES: OK.
PRICE: And I think the American people believe that.
HOLMES: OK. Well, Congressman, another thing. You are a member of the Tea Party caucus. So, tell me, sir, what is the role that the Tea Party has been playing and is playing right now, and how could this debate be different, as some would suggest that it would be different, if the Tea Party did not exist, quite frankly?
PRICE: Well, look, T.J., you know that the Tea Party members out there across this great country are just patriotic Americans who want to see the madness here in Washington stop. They want the level of spending decrease, they want the size and the scope and the reach of the government decrease, and they want us to get back to fundamental principles. And that's what their desire is. That's what our desire is.
So, we look forward to moving those kinds of pieces of legislation forward over the next 18 months.
HOLMES: And, again, sir, we kind of just -- you and I, kind of, like you said, a lot of conjecture. We made up that $38 billion number here with us. Let's pretend that it is. Is that something that you could vote for if there was still some funding in there for Planned Parenthood? And the number was $38 billion in additional cuts, is that something you could or could not vote for?
PRICE: Well, I think it's a constellation of the package. Are we going to fund the troops at the appropriate level? Are we going to support our strongest ally in the world, Israel? Are we going to make certain that the decreases in funding are in true decreases of funding, or are they gimmicks?
The American people are sick and tired of accounting tricks and budgetary gimmicks. What they want to see real saving, and that's what we're fighting for right now.
HOLMES: And last thing here, just, as a matter of fact, just informing our viewers here, we have seen Boehner and Reid and so many others that we know are in that room having these discussions. But, for someone like yourself and other members of Congress, there are hundreds of you up there, how are you being kept informed? Is your opinion being asked for? Are you playing, quite frankly, an active role in any of these negotiations?
PRICE: All of the members of the Republican conference, we've had multiple meetings this week, as a group. The speaker has been very open and transparent in what he's doing in terms of the negotiation. Our leadership, I chair the policy committee and we're working to make certain that all of our members have the kind of information that they need so that they know that they're working on their behalf. The speaker said earlier today to us, he's fighting as hard as he can on behalf of every one of us and wants to make certain that we get the best deal that we can for the American people.
HOLMES: All right. Representative Price, good luck up there. Just a few hours to go. But thank you so much.
PRICE: Thanks, T.J., very much. Take care.
HOLMES: All right. Well, passports, tourist spots, loans -- all of that goes away if there's no deal tonight. Coming up, how a government shutdown would affect you and every other American as we're coming up on now about 7 1/2 hours from your government possibly shutting down.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: As we come up on seven hours and 39 minutes before the possibility of your government shutting down, a government shutdown would, of course, affect just about all of us. And it would affect things like passports, tourism, loans. Also, thousands of people in North Dakota right now bracing for flood waters.
It's time for us to play a little "Reporter Roulette."
And we begin with our Casey Wian in Los Angeles -- Casey.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: T.J., behind me, you can see some of the hundreds of people who have been lining up here all day, hoping to get their passports applications completed before a potential government shutdown at midnight Eastern Time tonight.
Now, the U.S. Passport Agency processes about 14 million passports every year. That's 54,000 a day on average. All of that will come to a halt, or almost all of it -- except for emergency situations -- will come to a halt if there is a government shutdown tonight.
Also impacted will be federal workers here. We spoke with one member of the federal police force who says he endured a six-week period without a paycheck back in 1995, the last time there was a government shutdown. And he's very worried that something similar could happen again -- T.J.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Casey, thank you so much.
And next on "Reporter Roulette," Allan Chernoff. He is in New York where tourists may be banned from one of the country's biggest attractions -- Allan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALLEN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: T.J., tourists here at Battery Park have been flocking to get on to the ferry to go out to Liberty Island, because this maybe last day they can do it for quite some time. The Statue of Liberty, of course, is an essential tourist destination.
But the employees of the National Park Service who work over on Liberty Island and over here, well, the government considers them nonessential. The tourists have been saying all day they're mystified that the politicians in Washington can't seem to cut a budget deal to keep the government operation. But most upset of all are those National Park Service workers who may soon be temporarily without a job -- T.J.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: All right. We appreciate our Allen Chernoff as well.
And next on "Reporter Roulette," Ed Lavandera. He is in Texas for us where a small business owner is waiting on a government load -- Ed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: T.J., you're probably wondering what's standing out in the middle of this field here in the small town of Justin, Texas, north of Fort Worth, what that has to do with the government shutdown. But it has to do with small government loans from the Small Business Administration.
And Cami Stewart, who's been kind enough to join us out here in the field -- your vision for what would go here is what?
CAMI STEWART, HOPEFUL BUSINESS OWNER: It's a Taco Mayo. It's a quick service restaurant that we're trying to put in Justin.
LAVANDERA: All right.
And so, her business is kind of up in the air right now, T.J., because she's applying for a loan from the Small Business Administration, and it's going through the process.
And if the government shuts down, your loan is on hold. What will that do to your business plan?
STEWART: Well, right now, we have to close on the land at the end of this month and we're just going to meet that deadline if everything, you know, keeps going like it is. If the government does shut down, then that's a delay and we have a possibility to lose our land contract.
LAVANDERA: You got to be a little bit nervous, I imagine.
STEWART: Yes, very nervous. I do have a special needs child and got out of the corporate world to try to do a little entrepreneuring. So, very nervous, too.
LAVANDERA: The other interesting, too, as well, T.J., is that she would be employing some 12 to 15 people. So, you can see she's anxious to get this business literally off the ground here in Justin, Texas -- T.J. (END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: And thanks to our Ed as well.
Next on our "Reporter Roulette" -- residents in Fargo, North Dakota, preparing for the Red River, waiting for some flooding. They've been through this before. Expected to rise near record levels on Sunday.
Chad Myers is here with me.
I was just asking you about the numbers. We remember a couple of years ago, and this is getting there.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: It just seems like that's all they do. They plant, they make some weed, and then they make sandbags. It is just ridiculous.
This Red River, that travels to the north, it doesn't go into the Mississippi. It goes into Canada, right? It's the same one that we talk about every single year.
Now, two years ago, it was 40.8. That's just a number. That's how many feet. This year, 39.5.
But if the bags break -- I mean, they've been -- look at this video -- they've been sandbagging now for days and days and days. They've let the kids out of school because the kids need to report to go put sand in the bags.
HOLMES: Wow.
MYERS: Yes. No kidding. This is a big deal as the Red River rises. It's for Fargo, it's for Grand Forks, and all of the other places.
Now, just kind of thinking ahead -- let's hope they don't need federal funds if the government is shutdown to help them save their city because here -- here's the Red River's map at this point in time. It's not going to make it all the way to the big record flood stage. That's that dark line right there.
But still, a big rise all the way up to 39.5 feet. That's well above major flood stage. That's 9.5 feet above major flood stage.
And that's when they have to sandbag. They're a major flood stage.
The trick and almost the card that we can't play yet is how much rain comes in in the next two or three days, because that 39.5 may not be 39.5 if the rain that is forecast for Sunday is heavier than what the forecast models are saying right now.
Look at all of those counties. There's North Dakota, South Dakota, Minnesota -- those are all flood warnings for today, and the floods, obviously, already occurring, but the sandbags are holding at this point.
An ugly day in New York City, seeing some rain showers and some very, very slow airports. And back out to the Southwest, not a picnic in L.A., San Diego or Bakersfield, some heavy rains coming down there, slowing down airplanes on this get away Friday -- T.J.
HOLMES: Red River, all eyes on it.
Chad, we appreciate you as always, buddy. Thank you so much.
MYERS: You're welcome.
HOLMES: Well, coming up, we are going to be talking with someone who knows all about what goes on during these budget negotiations and what's really said behind those closed doors.
Donna Brazile, the new interim chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee, is here with me -- and I'm going to ask you, Donna, after the break, is this just all theatrics, or is there a real possibility of a government shutdown?
You don't want to miss it. We're about 7 1/2 hours away from your government possibly shutting down.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Well, we are about seven hours and 30 minutes from your government possibly shutting down.
Meanwhile, the Democratic National Committee about to shake things up a bit. Just ahead of next year's election, for the first time in 15 years, a woman is going to be in charge. This woman, Florida Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, President Obama tapped her at the helm -- to be at the helm of the DNC this week. But she is not going to officially take the role for a couple more weeks.
In the interim, this woman is in charge, Donna Brazile, a familiar face, of course, here at CNN, before Wasserman Schultz gets her role.
I know, like you just told me a moment ago, you're keeping the lights on. You're not going to be a contributor here to CNN for a while, while you take this new role. But still, it's good to see your familiar face here. Good to have you.
Let's start with what we're watching in D.C. right now. Is this just brinksmanship? Is this theatrics and they're going to get this done? Do you have confidence?
DONNA BRAZILE, DNC CHAIRWOMAN: Absolutely. Look, I know President Obama is serious about making sure that Speaker Boehner and Mr. Reid come up with a plan to keep our government running. This would be a huge mistake not just to a fragile economy but to those government workers, to the central services that our federal government provides to shut down our federal government simply because they cannot come to an agreement either on the number or these what I call 20th century policy writers that would somehow tell woman many that they will not have access to essential services like breast exams.
I know that there are a lot of policy implications with the budget proposals that the Republicans as well as Democrats have agreed to, and I'm very concerned about them. But the bottom line is I think the president said it right the other night -- we have come so far over the last couple of weeks in meeting the demands of the Tea Party and others who want to see some drastic cuts made. Let's get it done. Let's keep the government running and let's have these other fights on another day when perhaps we can put more items in the budget on the table so we are not focusing on the smallest non-security discretionary spending.
HOLMES: And Donna, mid-'90s, you were a government staffer the last time we saw -- the last government shutdown we saw. How does this one feel different, whether it's in tone, in issues, in dollars? What's different?
BRAZILE: Well, there's no question that there's a certain amount of chaos involved in telling each department to come up with essential services that they will provide over this so-called shut down.
If you remember back in the 1990s, the country was not in this fragile economic recovery. Yes, it was 20 days. Yes, we had some tough decisions to make. But this is a different moment. Many Americans are still hurting. Unemployment is still very high.
And I think to play these kinds of political games in a mist of people trying to get their taxes, they want to get their refund checks as well. This is not the time to play these kinds of what I call political games that we should not be enduring at this time. The president is anxious to get a deal done. The majority leader, I heard the speaker this morning talk, we're close, let's get it done.
HOLMES: Let's turn away for a moment here as the clock continues to particular. But your new role here as interim head of the DNC, I know you say you just want to keep the lights on, but you'll do a little more than that. But when she comes in, what is she going to be able to do? What are they hoping that she will be able to do in taking the DNC to new places and new highs and record levels in terms of raising money for this next election cycle?
BRAZILE: First of all, let me tell you that I've worked with Debbie over the last two years. We were both vice chairs of the Democratic Party. I'm happy to pass the gavel on to what I believe will be a very good era at the Democratic Party.
Debbie is tenacious. She is a member of congress. She understands the budget process. More importantly, she knows Democratic values and she will not only reach out to Democrats but also independents and some of those soft Republicans who would like to be involved in a big tent of the adverse party.
But 2012 is a very important political year. Debbie will help with the strategy of the reelected President Obama, helping to retain the Senate with Majority Leader Reid and help him to bring back and win the house for Democrats.
Debbie understands all of these great issues and I'm honored to work with her and I can't wait to pass the gavel on so I can get back to my other life. And don't lose my number, T.J. I'll be looking for another job again in four weeks.
(LAUGHTER)
HOLMES: You've got keys to the place. You don't have to knock on any door around here certainly, Donna.
Something else I want to ask you about. You may have seen Donald Trump out and about. He's talking about the president and this whole birther issue has come up once again. He is now meeting with the person that put together the birther Bill in Arizona. I want to ask you, is that a good move by Donald Trump and a man who potentially could end up in the White House?
But before you answer, quick break. We'll get your answer after this. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Well, we are about seven hours and 20 plus minutes away from your government possibly shutting down. On another frontier, a lot of people are asking, is he running? Is he not running? It seems the only thing that Donald Trump is running right now, some would say, is just his mouth.
Today the potential Republican candidate hosted a birthers meeting in Manhattan. Among the invited guests, the sponsor of a so- called birther bill and also Tea Party activists. You may really Trump has been running across the country calling into question whether President Obama was born in the United States.
I want to bring back in the DNC interim chairwoman, Donna Brazile. Donna, answer this honestly for me. Are we being played in the media by Donald Trump? Is he talking about running for president, and maybe he will, but he's also hit on an issue that's gotten a lot of attention. So is this a stunt, in your estimation, or do you think he's seriously thinking about stepping up and running for president?
BRAZILE: You know, as you know, there are about 15 to 16 Republicans who are testing the waters. We don't know if they will get in the pool but we know that they are tossing around the ideas and meeting with activists and perhaps Donald Trump is promoting another reality show, the upcoming Miss USA pageant.
But the bottom line is President Obama is in a very strong position to win re-election and I know the Republican Party will have to decide who they want to be the standard bearer. If Mr. Trump decides to toss his hat in the ring, it's a crowded field and he'll have to ding wish himself from the other Republicans.
And I think this issue of the so-called birther issue is a sideshow, a distraction. Everyone who has looked at it has come away saying not only was the president born in the United States of America, born to an American mother in the United States of America, his birth certificate, the notice, it's really not something that serious people sit around and talk about. Serious people are talking about job creation, job growth, education, investing in the future, so that we can, as the president keeps saying, win the future.
This is a distraction. God bless Mr. Trump, but let's get on to some serious discussions that we need to have this in country.
HOLMES: You say it's not something that serious people are talking about. Would you consider him a serious candidate?
BRAZILE: At this time I do not consider him to be a serious candidate. And I'm not talking about him personally. I'm talking about maybe his qualifications.
I'm not a Republican, so I'm not going to pick and choose over all the things on their menu. But you have Mitt Romney and Tim Pawlenty and Haley Barbour, Newt Gingrich, some serious thinkers. You have people that maybe look good in comparison to each other.
But at this hour I think the Republicans have got to decide if they want to have a candidate that can go out there and rally the base or someone who can reach out to independents or soft Democrats, I don't think Mr. Trump is the person that they will choose. But then again I've been surprised before.
(LAUGHTER)
BRAZILE: By the way, I'm enjoying the entire spectacle of all of these Republicans running. It keeps many of us in the Democratic Party entertained at night.
(LAUGHTER)
HOLMES: Oh, Donna, my goodness, always good at making sure you get one shot in at the other side. Donna Brazile, good luck in your interim role, and we will see you back here as one of our colleagues and friends here at CNN.
BRAZILE: Don't lose my number. Please don't lose my number. Thank you, T.J.
HOLMES: Of course we won't. Good to see you.
BRAZILE: Thank you.
HOLMES: No operating government means maybe no pay for U.S. troops. So as Congress wrestles over the budget, military families are wondering how are they going to cope with no income. I'll be talking to a Navy wife facing that harsh reality as we get to seven hours and 19 minutes away from a possible government shutdown.
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HOLMES: It's about seven hours and 15 minutes before a possible government shutdown. And for military families that looming government shutdown could create some really serious hardships. If Congress does not create a budget by next Tuesday, pay for U.S. troops could be delayed. Many military families do live paycheck to paycheck, unfortunately and they are wondering how they are going to pay their bills.
Babette Maxwell is a co-founder of "Military Spouse" magazine, she's been military spouse as well for 15 years, and she joins me now.
Ma'am, your husband is in the Navy. He trains combat pilots. I want to tell our viewers that for you.
We talked about some military families living paycheck to paycheck. This is awfully personal, I know but, still, would you classify yourself as one of those families?
BABETTE MAXWELL, MILITARY SPOUSE: I think we all are. I grew up in the army. My dad's a retired army soldier and I married a Navy pilot, but I think anyone in the military knows what it is to struggle.
I think this is definitely a scary and concerning situation for families that are living paycheck to paycheck. We have mortgages, car payments, bills to pay, and honestly some of our Facebook users are threatening to send their bills to Congress so --
HOLMES: Ma'am, tell me this. Give our viewers an idea, just how disruptive can missing one paycheck be for you and your family?
MAXWELL: Well, I think any time you miss any portion of any paycheck, you have to restructure your entire family budget. And for those of us that pay certain bills out of certain portions of our monthly pay that can paying bills extremely difficult.
If your bills that come out on the 15th of the month, only have half of an income check to pay then you're going to miss some of your bills and then the long-term problem becomes, when are you going to be able to catch up? The longer it goes on, the more difficult it becomes.
MAXWELL: And I know you all are already making plans -- you have some contingency plans in place. But as far as what you're seeing on Capitol Hill, are you offended, quite frankly, by what you're seeing?
A family you're trying to deal with what you're doing and also a military family of all things. I think the way you put it is that you shouldn't have to serve on an IOU from your government.
But are you - I guess I said offended, but you use the word you want to describe how you feel about this back and forth on Capitol Hill and your family being caught in the cross hairs?
MAXWELL: Well, sure. First that I said was that I know my military spouse community and we are a strong and resilient group and we'll get through this the same way we get through every other crisis, which is with our chins up and heads held high. Having said that, I think it's morally repugnant and indefensible to suggest that our military service members should serve our country on an IOU or if that benefit won't be provided to those in our family, they'll pay the ultimate price.
HOLMES: Let me let you listen and let our viewers listen to something that former House Speaker Newt Gingrich said just a moment ago and then I'll ask you about it. Let's all listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: President Obama is deliberately seeking to hold the men and women in uniform and their families hostage so the politicians can fight over the budget and use the threat of not paying the troops as their weapon. Because liberals know once you take care of the military, most of America is going to say, OK, fight it out for a while.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMONS: OK, Miss Maxwell, he said there the president, he puts some blame on the president for holding military families hostage. Now I'm not sure if you care whose fault it is, necessarily, but would you agree with the idea that you feel like the military is being held hostage?
MAXWELL: Well, using the military as a political pawn is nothing new, but I think what is a more interesting question about this whole budget issue is that, why did Congress wait so long to do something about protecting the military?
I mean, it's not like the budget just snuck up this week. We've known about it for months and yet there was nothing put in front of Congress to protect military service members' pay until April 4th and both of those, one in the House and one in the Senate, are still sitting in committee.
So, you know, is it the president's fault maybe partially? Is it Congress' fault? Absolutely, on most levels I would say yes.
HOLMES: All right, well, I know a lot of people at this point trying to get beyond even placing blame and a lot of people say who cares at this point. Right now, just need to get something done.
MAXWELL: For us I think the more important issue is just protecting our service members and their families. It's an extremely difficult situation when you have service members serving on three fronts now in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya as well as what we're doing in Japan with our military.
But then to compound that with the added psychological and emotional stress of not having your family back home taken care of, these are long-term problems that need to be addressed.
HOLMES: Ms. Maxwell, thank you so much for sharing your story, your family story with us and certainly we wish you luck and hopefully they will get something done here shortly. But thank you so much for your time.
MAXWELL: Thank you.
HOLMES: All right. We are now about seven hours and 10 minutes away from a possible government shutdown. Wolf Blitzer with me coming up.
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HOLMES: Well, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer in just about eight minutes away, but Wolf, the countdown we're really watching with the fact that we're about 7 hours and 8 minutes away from a possible government shutdown.
Are they going to get this done? They are not crazy enough to let this government shutdown, are they?
WOLF BLITZER, THE SITUATION ROOM: You would think because 800,000 people are going to be immediately affected. They're going to lose their paychecks in the short term. Think of how many family members and others will be directly impacted by this.
They are very, very close to a deal and it would really be tragic for the country. Forget about the political fallout or any of that, if in fact they failed to reach an agreement. I think they are close. They could announce that they have an agreement or not.
If they don't have an agreement on midnight, the government will shuts down until there is some sort of agreement. There is still one other option that they could do, T.J., and pass some sort of temporary bill for a week or ten days saying, you know what, we're very, very close. Let's continue working on this.
And as a result, the pain for the American people, the embarrassment for the United States of America will simply go away for another week or ten days if they can continue the negotiations.
If in fact they have a government shutdown, it will be lose, lose, lose, for everyone, the American public, for the Democrats, the Republicans. I don't see any clear cut winners. So I sense the pressure is enormous right now on the president, on the speaker, on the senate majority leader to say to themselves, you know what, let's reach a deal.
Let's work this out for the American people and we have a lot of other fights for the next year's fiscal budget, for entitlements. There are two wars under way in Iraq and Afghanistan right now maybe a third war in Libya, the Middle East, North Africa on fire right now.
Is this a time for them to be fighting over relatively tiny, tiny aspects of the budget? My sense is that they will work it out. Whether they work it out today, tomorrow, or Sunday, we will see, but I suspect they will work it out.
HOLMES: And who are the names you have on coming up? BLITZER: Well, we're going to have major debates between Republicans and Democrats, Marsha Blackburn, Republican congresswoman and Claire McCaskill, Democratic senator. They strongly disagree on some of the funding for women and women's health-related issues including on abortion rights for women.
Anthony Weiner, the Democratic congressman from New York always outspoken, David Drier, the Republican congressman from California. They will debate as well. So we're going to spend a lot of time focusing on what is going on.
And of course, we've got all of our reporters, all of our analysts, everyone is standing to see what is going on. I will promise our viewers this we won't completely neglect what is going on Libya and elsewhere in the Middle East right now.
Today has been a momentous day over as well so we'll have all the news, the important news of the day, as we always do.
HOLMES: Wolf, we always do. We always watch. We do appreciate you. Thanks so much. We'll see you here in just a moment.
But before we get to Wolf, we have a story of interest to women out there. It's on our legal docket. You know your shoes. In one fashion house to another, women know that's a big deal. Sunny Hostin is joining me to explain this one.
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HOLMES: All right. Gentlemen, do you know the name Christian Louboutin? Don't worry. If you don't, your wife or your girlfriend does. Shoes are at the heart of the matter today.
Let me bring in Sunny Hostin to help me out here. Sunny, good to see you as always. Now for people who don't know Christian Louie Baton, they have the red sole bottoms.
SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: That's right.
HOLMES: And now Christian Louboutin is suing Eves Saint Laurent because of the bottom of the shoe, explain this to me.
HOSTIN: That's right because Eves Saint Laurent all of a sudden there is now issued as of January 2011 a couple of shoes with that red bottom. And it sounds like it's not a big deal, right?
Well, it is a big deal. I'm a lover of Louboutin's and you know, I want to fully disclose that, but it is a big deal because they are trademark. That is the trademark of the Louboutin trend. It's that red sole. And I can spot that sole from blocks away, T.J.
HOLMES: But is it legally trademarked? Can you sue someone for taking the red sole? Don't other shoe makers out there, maybe knockoffs, is he going to try to sue all those folks, too?
HOSTIN: Well, I will say I have the lawsuit in my hand. Yes, they say they will enforce the trademark against anyone trying to really copycat or counterfeit that trademark.
Those red, lacquer soles were trademarked by this wonderful company, Louboutin in January of 2008 and because the trademark - the trademark office determined that it was that fabulous and it was that distinctive. So absolutely, absolutely. I think they may have gotten caught red-handed.
HOLMES: OK, I've got 15 seconds here, can they actually just make them stop or you could see some kind of financial judgment here?
HOSTIN: I think both. They are going to ask for them to stop. Certainly for injunctive relief, but they are also asking for cold hard cash.
HOLMES: All right. You enjoy this weekend.
HOSTIN: I will. I will.
HOLMES: Always good to see you. Thanks so much. Now it's time to go from Christian Louboutin to Wolf Blitzer right now.
