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JOY BEHAR SHOW

GOP and Social Issues; Ravishing Rachael Ray

Aired April 13, 2011 - 22:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOY BEHAR, HOST: A lot of people are mad that first lady, Michelle Obama is trying to get our kids to eat healthier. You know who`s really upset with her? The smoking baby. He told me. Yes. It`s true. He told me, he said, what`s better than a Marlboro Light after a double cheeseburger? I mean --.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Jerry Springer weighs in on national dysfunction. From Donald Trump`s presidential poll lead to digging the country out of debt. Joy and Jerry get to the bottom of it all.

Then Rachael Ray shares here favorite things with Joy.

Plus Toni Braxton opens up to Joy about her tumultuous career from topping the charts to going bankrupt to battling heart disease.

That and more starting right now.

BEHAR: Beautiful actress Catherine Zeta-Jones spent a week at a mental health treatment center in Connecticut for bipolar disorder and was released on Monday. Her rep said in a statement, "After dealing with the stress of the past year, Catherine made the decision to check into a mental health facility for a brief stay to treat her bipolar 2 disorder. She`s feeling great and looking forward to starting work on her upcoming films."

Here with me now is Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and a marriage and family therapist. Bethany, Catherine apparently has what they call bipolar 2 disorder. Can you tell me what that is, exactly?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALSYT: Yes, bipolar is a mood disorder characterized by highs and lows, right. The lowest, depression; the high, mania, burst of energy, racing thoughts, excessive goal-directive behavior, grandiosity, bingeing, binge sex, drinking, binge spending. Bipolar 2 means that at the manic pole the person doesn`t get quite that manic. They`re hypomanic, flying just below the radar.

It`s unclear if that`s really the case or if her camp is trying to minimize the severity of the illness in the eyes of the public.

BEHAR: Oh, I see. So to say bipolar 2 is not as severe a disorder as just regular bipolar.

MARSHALL: Yes. So they`re kind of saying it`s bipolar but it`s bipolar light. It`s not that bad.

BEHAR: I see. Well how serious must the symptoms have been to warrant her checking into a mental health facility?

MARSHALL: Well, here`s the thing. You don`t go into a hospital pre- emptively, like to prepare for a role in a movie. You go in because you have symptoms, either depression or mania.

My guess is that because her husband was going through cancerous treatment she was under extreme stress. It could be that he is the only person in her life that would notice the minute changes that would signal the precursor to a manic or depressive episode. So this may have been going on for quite some time.

BEHAR: So you`re saying stress can get the disorder to flare up?

MARSHALL: Yes. Not only can stress get it to flare up but the person might start tinkering with their medications. For instance, if she was afraid he was going to die, she might have become depressed. Her psychiatrist puts her on an anti-depressant. What happens? It flips her into a manic state.

So it could be that she went in-patient for them also to monitor her medications and to kind of settle her back down.

BEHAR: I see. Ok.

Her representative says that she`s looking forward to starting work this week on two upcoming films. Shouldn`t she take more time to recover than go right back into work? Or does it matter?

MARSHALL: Well, here`s the deal, Joy. If she`s really depressed, she`s not going to be able -- she`s not going to have the energy at her disposal to be able to act. If she`s in a manic state, then acting is going to stimulate the mania. Because let`s think of mania, grandiosity; you imagine that you`re famous, you have unlimited resources, you have excessive creativity.

What`s going to happen if the camera`s on her, the lights, everything`s rolling and then she gets put into that manic state again? It could be really counter-therapeutic.

BEHAR: Right. So your recommendation would be to take some more -- to her would be to take more time off and take a break.

MARSHALL: I think she needs to lie low, shore up all of her attachment systems, stay on the medication for a while and have a long, stable period before she goes back in front of the camera.

BEHAR: You know, it`s sad because we -- they`ve had a hard time. Michael Douglas had a hard time this year, and now this. We wish them the very best. They`re very nice people.

Thanks very much, Bethany.

MARSHALL: Thank you.

BEHAR: Let me turn to another big story today. President Obama gave a speech about the budget at George Washington University. He would have given it at the Library of Congress but Michele Bachmann said, what`s a library? Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today I`m proposing a more balanced approach to achieve $4 trillion in deficit reduction over 12 years. It`s an approach that puts every kind of spending on the table but one that protects the middle class, our promise to seniors, and our investments in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: And to debate this and much, much more, hopefully without any chair-throwing, Jerry Springer, host of "The Jerry Springer Show" now on its 20th season. That`s right.

JERRY SPRINGER, TALK SHOW HOST: Sorry.

BEHAR: He`s also the former Democratic mayor of Cincinnati. And S.E. Cupp, conservative author of "Losing Our Religion".

Ok guys. It looks like that one way he wants to reduce the deficit is by basically putting an end to the Bush era tax cuts which really benefited the super wealthy and raising taxes for the wealthy and also what else did he do? That`s it. It`s a no-brainer. Raise taxes, you`ll solve the whole problem.

SPRINGER: Well, it`s not -- it`s not the only solution.

BEHAR: But it`s one thing to do.

SPRINGER: But clearly it is almost immoral to think that we`re going to cut Medicare, we`re going to cut Medicaid. In some cases do away with it, make it a private insurance situation and we`re going to do that so that people like me can get more of a tax break. That`s unfair.

BEHAR: Ok. You know, why shouldn`t he raise taxes on the wealthy, S.E., really?

S.E. CUPP, AUTHOR, "LOSING OUR RELIGION": Well, into meeting, even into meeting that you`re going to raise taxes hurts jobs right now today because that uncertainty of what employers are going to have to pay in the future, what people -- how much money people are going to have to pay in taxes next year, the following year, this cuts jobs.

And I know we all like to look back and say, look, George Bush raised, you know, cut taxes and it didn`t create more jobs. We`re not living in the same decade. We`re not in the same economy. Baby boomers are going to retire soon. We`re living longer, we can kick this can as far down the road as we want, but eventually we`re going to have to address this gaping hole.

(CROSSTALK)

SPRINGER: When rich people -- when you give rich people more -- and I`m talking about the top one percent -- when you give them more of a tax cut they don`t go out and hire more people. You know, they`re not --

BEHAR: What do they do with it?

SPRINGER: Well, they`ll --

CUPP: They invest it into the market, they spend it, Jerry. That`s what we want.

SPRINGER: I have an idea, then. If you honestly believe that if you give rich people more of a tax break they`ll go and hire more people then I say let`s do this. We do away with the tax cuts for the rich and any rich person that can come then and show that they`re hiring 20, 30 new people, we`ll give them the tax break. But don`t give a tax break to the rich people that aren`t hiring more.

BEHAR: That`s a good idea. What do you think about that?

SPRINGER: Why not that?

CUPP: So you have to prove you`re going to hire people and then you get a tax break.

SPRINGER: Well, you have to prove everything and everything with your taxes you have to prove.

BEHAR: Show that you had hired.

SPRINGER: Yes. Otherwise why give people like me more of a tax break?

CUPP: Because Jerry, you`re going to spend it. You`re going to spend it. You`re going to dump it into the economy. That`s what we want.

SPRINGER: You know what they do. If they hire people, they hire people overseas. Every business tries to hire as few people as possible paying them as low a wage as possible because they want to make more of a profit.

CUPP: Of course.

SPRINGER: Right. But the result of that is just what -- you`re agreeing -- just because of that people don`t get hired. It`s not fair.

CUPP: So let`s give them less money then and really make them have to strap down. I mean, that doesn`t make any sense.

BEHAR: What about the burden on --

SPRINGER: Rich people can`t get by if they pay a little more in taxes? You mean you`re only going to make $3 million in a year instead of $3.2 million. I mean who are we kidding?

CUPP: Actually we`re talking about people who are making $250,000. That`s what we`re talking about.

SPRINGER: The top one percent --

BEHAR: Does not make that. That`s not the group at the top one percent.

CUPP: No we know. But what I`m saying is that`s the group that Obama is targeting, people who make $250,000 and more. We`re not talking about $3 million.

(CROSSTALK)

SPRINGER: Is it fairer -- is it fairer to cut Medicare, is it fairer to cut Medicaid, is it fairer to cut the people at the bottom end of the -- the bottom end of the continuum that need to just try and make ends meet so they can get by so that rich people cannot have to pay a little more in taxes? Why not? This is a great country, we`re benefiting, we should pay more.

BEHAR: What do you make of the fact that GE paid no taxes and made billions of dollars last year? What do you make of that?

CUPP: Yes, I mean whether you`re looking at corporate taxes or you`re looking at personal income taxes, I don`t like any taxes. So if a group or a person --

BEHAR: You would like it if we didn`t pay any?

CUPP: Of course, I`m a fiscal conservative. Of course, I`m a starve- the-beast conservative.

BEHAR: Well, then, how do you pay --

(CROSSTALK)

SPRINGER: What about people that need help? What about people who need help? What kind of a country is this?

BEHAR: Don`t give her the bleeding liberal? They don`t like the bleeding liberal rap.

SPRINGER: It doesn`t matter what they like.

BEHAR: They don`t want to hear any about poor people and all the distress.

SPRINGER: Middle income people.

BEHAR: They`re only going to lift --

(CROSSTALK)

CUPP: You don`t think want to hear about it? It`s the bleeding the rich to feed the poor does not work in this economy.

BEHAR: We`re not talking about welfare.

SPRINGER: Do you think that the richest people in America are bleeding? You think that people that are millionaires are bleeding? I have never yet met a millionaire that says, you know what, if I could only be on welfare it would be such a better life. If I could only make $30,000 a year instead of $20 million a year it would be such a better life.

CUPP: We`ve seen how redistribution of wealth projects work. They don`t turn out so well.

BEHAR: Wait a minute. Let me give -- here`s --

SPRINGER: I`m saying pay a day rate --

BEHAR: Let me give you this fact. In the last decade the average income of the bottom 90 percent declined and the top one percent saw their income rise by an average of more than $250,000 each.

CUPP: And you say unfair --

SPRINGER: That`s true.

CUPP: -- and I say good for those top one percent --

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: But what about the other ones?

CUPP: -- they`re working hard and they`re being rewarded.

SPRINGER: How do you know they`re all working hard? What about rich people that are rich only because their parents are rich? What about those --

CUPP: Well, shoot them Jerry.

(CROSS TALK)

SPRINGER: Where is this idea that people that are -- no. Make them pay? No. I think if those of --

CUPP: Make them pay. Make them pay.

BEHAR: I`m on "The View" all of a sudden.

CUPP: I do have to pay my taxes.

SPRINGER: Well, fine. Why should rich people be exempted?

CUPP: Stop it.

BEHAR: Listen, why would -- should the 90 percent be penalized? They work just as hard as the one percent.

SPRINGER: Yes, they don`t work.

CUPP: Why should the top one percent be penalized?

(CROSS TALK)

SPRINGER: They`re not penalized. They`re living in a great country. What`s the penalty?

(CROSSTALK)

CUPP: I don`t want to penalize anyone. I want people to keep as much -- as much money that they earn as they possibly can. I think that benefits everyone. And if we go, if we go for starve the beast, if we go for starve the beast kind of government, we -- we reduce the size of government and we put more money back in our own pockets. It`s not complicated.

(CROSS TALK)

SPRINGER: I`m not -- who`s talking about starving the beast? Who`s talking about punishing rich people? I`m saying rich people --

(CROSS TALK)

CUPP: You are.

SPRINGER: No, let me say --

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: You say pay their fair share.

SPRINGER: -- no -- no I am saying well --

(CROSS TALK)

CUPP: But it`s not their fair share; it`s more than their fair share.

(CROSS TALK)

SPRINGER: Those of us lucky enough to be wealthy, yes, lucky, pure luck. And those of us who are lucky enough to get the great benefits of this country, it`s not too much to ask us to put in a couple more bucks.

BEHAR: I`ve got to go. Ok, we`ll be right back. Stay right there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still ahead on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Rachael Ray talks food police and favorite things.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

2215

BEHAR: I`m back with bleeding heart liberal Jerry Springer and conservative S.E. Cupp. Ok, now former Republican Alan Simpson of Wyoming, you know him that tall sort of lanky John Wayne guy.

(CROSS TALK)

SPRING: Yes, oh yes.

BEHAR: He was asked about the potential GOP candidate and this is what he said. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN SIMPSON, FORMER U.S. SENATOR: We have homophobes in our party. That`s disgusting to me. We`re all human beings and we`re all God`s children.

Now, if they`re going to get off in that stuff, Santorum has said some cruel things, cruel, cruel things about -- about homosexuals. And I`m not sticking with people who are homophobic, and of woman you know moral values while you`re did on your secretary while you`re giving a speech on moral values?

Come on. Get off it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: I think that is a fantastic man right now --

(CROSS TALK)

SPRINGER: Yes.

BEHAR: -- to say such a thing.

SPRINGER: Yes, how honest he was.

BEHAR: He takes on Santorum also. That guy you know.

CUPP: Yes.

BEHAR: What do you think about that S.E.?

CUPP: God he`s a cranky old man.

BEHAR: Yes.

CUPP: No, you know, I think it`s colossally stupid is what I think. If Alan Simpson in all of his esteemed capacity as former Senator --

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: Yes.

CUPP: -- wants to spend every minute of every day thinking about the economy, I certainly won`t stop him. But for him to turn to elected Republicans and conservatives all around the country and tell them that they have to stop caring about social issues just to win an election I think is absolutely preposterous.

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: Santorum is an elected official. Isn`t he out of office right now?

CUPP: No, but he`ll run for president.

BEHAR: Well, he`ll lose. He will lose.

CUPP: And we know that for sure. But he`s also telling --

BEHAR: What is that in that movie "Doubt" she says, you will lose. So will he.

SPRINGER: I -- I have learned never to get into the middle of a fight between Republicans.

BEHAR: I know. Let them fight with each other.

CUPP: They`ll cannibalize. You`re absolutely right. But I mean, you know, this is -- I -- I think --

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: But you know don`t you think --

(CROSS TALK)

CUPP: -- it`s really offensive not because he`s not just telling elected officials, he`s telling the whole of the Conservative Party. Everyone out there in the heartland, for example, that you have to stop caring about the issues that matter deeply to you. All we should be talking about right now is the economy. That`s lunacy.

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: Well, we -- I think what he`s saying is stop pretending that it`s just about fiscal issues when you know that you`re hiding your social agenda. They`re also -- look at the Planned Parenthood thing they practically stopped the budget from going through. We almost had a government shutdown because of abortion.

(CROSS TALK)

CUPP: The Democrats almost -- almost had a government shutdown because they refused to allow cuts in spending for Planned Parenthood. You can point fingers at either side.

(CROSS TALK)

SPRINGER: What --

BEHAR: Why should they allow cuts -- why should they allow cuts in Planned Parenthood?

(CROSS TALK)

SPRINGER: Yes.

CUPP: Why should I fund Planned Parenthood?

BEHAR: Because Planned Parenthood could save your life. That`s why.

SPRINGER: Yes.

CUPP: I will never ask Planned Parenthood to save my life.

(CROSS TALK)

SPRINGER: You`re lucky.

BEHAR: Some poor --

SPRINGER: You are lucky.

BEHAR: -- some poor women will because they do tests on for cervical cancer.

CUPP: You`re right. They do. But I don`t want to have to find --

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: They may not do the mammogram --

(CROSS TALK)

CUPP: A liberal public policy -- they have been --

(CROSS TALK)

SPRINGER: Saving -- having women being able to get medical care is liberal?

CUPP: I don`t want my --

SPRINGER: If that is, sign me up. I`m liberal.

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: Wait a minute. I have to stop you there. The Hyde Amendment prevents any federal funding going to abortions, so why do Republicans keep perpetuating this lie as if it`s a law? It`s not a law, it`s against the law.

CUPP: It -- it doesn`t, it doesn`t. Every time a new spending measure comes up whether it`s a budget or -- or some kind of a new spending feature, we have to re-examine this issue because they will try and get publicly-funded abortions into any nook and cranny that they can. But it`s unfortunate, but --

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: Hello, let us not forget Roe v. Wade, ok.

SPRINGER: Yes.

BEHAR: It is a law in this country. Planned Parenthood does not provide free abortions with public funding. They do it with private funding and people who need abortions because there are many women in this country who need them.

CUPP: Then what does the spending go to? What does federal spending go to?

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: Cervical cancer, heart disease.

(CROSS TALK)

CUPP: Ok, so they --

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: Mammograms that they refer, all that.

(CROSS TALK)

CUPP: They set aside a drawer for just that money just to go to cervical cancer screenings?

BEHAR: I`m assuming they do. I`m assuming they do.

CUPP: Ok, I don`t like their agenda.

(CROSS TALK)

BEHAR: I`m sorry. Jerry --

CUPP: I don`t believe in what they believe in. I don`t want to have to pay for it.

BEHAR: I have one more minute left. But I want to --

(CROSS TALK)

SPRINGER: Yes, there are a lot of things -- there are a lot of things -- when you pay taxes you pay taxes for a lot of programs that you personally don`t benefit from that day.

(CROSS TALK)

CUPP: Absolutely.

SPRINGER: Ok, and you want people to stop, they should only pay taxes for things they want. So for example if you pay taxes to a fire department in your local community and there`s no fire at your house, you wants your money back? Oh, that will work.

CUPP: We`re talking about apples and oranges. I would never ask you Joy or you Jerry to put your taxpayer money towards abstinence education if you didn`t want to. Unfortunately our taxpayer system requires that we all put it in one big coffer.

(CROSS TALK)

SPRINGER: Yes.

BEHAR: Don`t I pay for -- don`t I pay for wars and armaments? I pay for that.

(CROSS TALK)

SPRINGER: Yes, I would rather withhold my --

BEHAR: I`m against that too.

CUPP: So I`m not disagreeing. We do it all the time.

(CROSS TALK)

SPRINGER: So you`re telling the American people that it`s ok not to pay your taxes to support a war that you don`t support? Is that ok?

CUPP: I pay my taxes. We all pay taxes for things we don`t believe in. I wish that weren`t the case.

(CROSS TALK)

SPRINGER: Ok.

BEHAR: Ok. Thank you guys very much. We`ll be back in a minute. Ok.

We never got to Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Up next, Rachael Ray talks about a ban on home packed school lunches.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: She hosts her Emmy award-winning daytime talk show, writes cookbooks. She runs a non-profit organization and she just re-launched her magazine, "Everyday with Rachael Ray". How does she do it? Crack cocaine, that`s how.

I`m happy to welcome her back to the show, Rachael Ray.

RACHAEL RAY, TALK SHOW HOST: I brought some for the whole class, Joy.

BEHAR: What`s in this bag?

RAY: I brought some chocolate crack in here.

That`s a different kind of crack, actually. You know, this guy is called the dread head chef and he came to me at a book signing and he stood in line for hours and hours to bring me these chocolate dessert chips. They`re like chocolate nachos. You put them out with this fruit salsa.

But it`s just a point of -- that`s the craziest thing. The magazine, television show, everything we do is literally a conversation with a viewer or the reader. And this guy just came up to me out of the blue and --

BEHAR: And gave you those.

RAY: -- yes. And then they ended up in the pages of the magazine.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: And you put the strawberry mango on top of this stuff?

RAY: Those are now chips. They`re now good sprinkles for an ice cream sundae.

BEHAR: I like those. What`s this?

RAY: That`s a actually double duty use next time you`re really pissed off. Just take your salsa at your chips.

BEHAR: And this is what? Bourbon --

RAY: My husband loves this.

BEHAR: The Lindsay Lohan favorite, bourbon-smoked sugar.

RAY: My husband has become a mixologist so he`s really into anything that rims glasses or does really fun stuff in the world of making cocktails.

BEHAR: Very good. And what`s that?

RAY: My staff actually found this one. It`s the cupcake in a jar, like an office birthday party or whatever.

BEHAR: This looks like an anthill. Get a shot of that. You can see the ants crawling in there. In fact, what are these little things?

RAY: And these are some of the lovely things you can read about in our magazine. Isn`t that great. Don`t they look fabulous now?

BEHAR: I was looking through the magazine and it is quite tasty.

RAY: I`ve got to tell you, the magazine, I`ve always been proud of it. I think we have a unique personality but this re-launch is gorgeous. There`s so much that`s different about it. There`s 50 percent more food in it if you`re a food lover, but I think we`re just doing everything better. I think after a while you have to examine anything you`re doing in life and say, ok, how can we raise our bar and push ourselves to make this a better product.

BEHAR: Put this on every cover like Oprah does.

(CROSSTALK)

RAY: No, we`re actually changing that as well.

BEHAR: Oh, you`re not going to put --

RAY: I`ve never really wanted it that way.

BEHAR: Why?

RAY: Well, because I think it keeps people -- listen. If you don`t like me it`s going to keep you from buying the magazine and --

BEHAR: That doesn`t stop Oprah from making a fortune on the "O Magazine".

RAY: Well, you know, I think that if you like our brand, great, you`ll pick it up. But if you`re not aware of our brand or you`re not into me personally, there`s so much else in there.

BEHAR: I know. I just --

RAY: We have enormous food content, huge travel content, we have more lifestyle content, and it`s great, really cool fun information. I want people to --

BEHAR: I like this, how to macerate your strawberries. I got turned on when I got this.

RAY: Doesn`t that sound dirty and lovely?

BEHAR: And that Persian cucumbers, hello. There`s pictures of the cucumber here.

RAY: And we just sold 10,000 copies between the cucumbers and the macerating.

BEHAR: And spring onions, you have like a little gonad photo here.

RAY: Well, you know, the art has changed throughout. There`s a lot of illustration now, there`s a lot of -- see how I`m just glossing over gonad?

BEHAR: Vegetables as parts of the body. I enjoy that.

RAY: Yes. I do too, actually. Now I`m getting a little bothered, too. You got a fan back here anywhere, Joy?

BEHAR: Well, we`re going to take a break. And when we come back, we`ll talk more with Rachael Ray. I love the magazine. I love it.

RAY: It really looks beautiful.

BEHAR: It`s fabulous.

A.J. HAMMER, HLN HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Tonight on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT", Jennifer Lopez named "People`s" most beautiful. Her popularity at an all-time high. Did "American Idol" save her? At 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on HLN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAY: My bracelet is magnetic and the pan decided it really liked it. So that`s the secret ingredient in my sauce. The knife likes it too. Fabulous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: That was a look at a fun moment from Rachael Ray, the one and only Rachael Ray is with me now. That was very Julia Child. You know how she would just sort of --

(CROSSTALK)

RAY: Exactly. That`s what I love about, you know, the show and your show and this show is that we leave in all of the conversation.

BEHAR: Exactly.

RAY: All of the mistakes.

BEHAR: You know, things that (inaudible)

(CROSSTALK)

RAY: We just start pounding this again. This is actually a really good double duty tip (ph).

BEHAR: You like that.

RAY: I love it.

BEHAR: You know, listen to this. Some schools are banning chocolate milk. Do you know that?

RAY: I do know that.

BEHAR: Why are they doing that?

RAY: Well, I think that parents, politicians and principals, everybody is trying everything they can think of, you know, throwing, you know, pebbles into the pot to try to make stone soup out of getting our kids a little healthier.

So I think that, you know, my approach for this has always been, as with all of our efforts with our Yamma (ph) organization and fighting childhood obesity, change has to come out of conversation. It can`t come out of finger wagging or going to any extreme. I don`t think that chocolate milk is necessarily the culprit, and there are some school districts that moved to skim chocolate milk, you know, lowering the fat, but there`s still the sugar and the chocolate.

It`s not that chocolate milk is inherently bad for children, it`s that we`ve let the whole thing sort of spiral out of control, and the conversation should be how can we improve our school food? We made a big stride this year with that, getting a little more funding, so that the schools, their hands aren`t tied so tightly when it comes to getting better nutrition into the kids.

BEHAR: You mean they didn`t try to cut that?

RAY: No, they actually got something done.

BEHAR: Unbelievable.

RAY: Woo-hoo, you know, we got a couple of pennies for good food. But I think that when it comes to these rules, you know, there`s another story about all of the lunches, banning -- entirely banning I think it`s in Chicago schools.

BEHAR: Yes, school lunches are now banned in the Chicago school.

RAY: Not being able to bring lunch from home.

BEHAR: See, I don`t care for that. I don`t like that rule. Because first of all, when I was a kid, I used to bring -- OK, it`s hard to carry pasta fasul (ph) in a bag, but still, I used to bring my lunch to school every day.

RAY: Yes, me too.

BEHAR: because I didn`t like the lunches that they had. So why do the mothers have to follow those rules?

RAY: Again, I think that it`s about taking the conversation to an extreme when maybe they didn`t have to go quite that far. What if they sent home a document that said, we`re trying so hard to help our kids and fight obesity rates and the diabetes rates, why don`t we agree as parents and a community, let`s try and send the kids to school with these healthy snacks and make suggestions, and give them some dietary suggestions for the lunches instead of just taking them out.

BEHAR: Well, that would be nice. This is like too much intrusion I think -- and the parents don`t like it.

RAY: I think that`s the problem. Everybody is trying so drastically to turn a worsening tide -- I think that it`s always meant with the best of intentions, but you`ve got to go back to conversation instead of these extremes and the finger wagging and name-calling.

BEHAR: What about this high fructose corn syrup they keep talking about? They are saying that`s the reason the chocolate milk is so fattening.

RAY: And it`s in foods that you wouldn`t imagine to look for it in. A mom has to be literally a rocket scientist to go grocery shopping today. Like, she could bring home something that looks like whole wheat bread or whole grain bread. When you read the label, it could have high fructose corn syrup.

BEHAR: You have to know how to read the labels.

RAY: You have to really be cognizant of where every single thing comes from that you`re bringing home. Even the fruits and vegetables, even the raw fruits and vegetables.

BEHAR: What`s wrong with those?

RAY: There is so much -- you know, when to buy organic, when not to buy organic. What organic means.

BEHAR: It`s too expensive. The problem is organic is too expensive. Food that doesn`t have this fructose in it is more expensive. Everything that is healthy is more expensive. That`s the problem.

RAY: Well, as the buying habits change for that, though, so does that structure. As we as consumers make it more popular, all of these products, you know, they will become less expensive. And I think that there has been a great movement in this country, in classrooms and in communities large and small, and certainly in the big cities, to bring back the farmer`s markets. And those are a big bargain.

BEHAR: That`s nice.

RAY: You know, when you buy direct from the local growers in your community, whether you live in the country or the big city, you`re getting one of the last bargains left in food. And if you bring the kids with you when you`re doing that shopping, you`re opening up that conversation with them, teaching them where the food comes from and they get to meet the people that grow it.

BEHAR: It`s education, a lot of it.

Now, let`s switch subjects, because Natalie Portman, who is pregnant, she dropped her vegan diet. She says I guess she felt like she just wasn`t getting enough, you know, she switched to a more lenient vegetarian diet, one to include eggs and dairy. I`m a lenient vegetarian, but I eat pork butt.

(LAUGHTER)

RAY: I don`t know what I would call that. I know some pescateris (ph), they will eat the fish and the vegetables, but pork butt--

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Pork butt with my vegetables, isn`t that a vegetarian -- no, I guess not. But do you think that`s a smart move for her?

RAY: You know, I think that something -- you know like a choice of a mom to be is between her doctor and her body and her baby.

BEHAR: Of course.

RAY: But in general, yes, being a vegan is the deal breaker for me. I know I could easily be a vegetarian, I could not easily be a vegan. I have to be able to have cheese. It is a food group for me. You know, I have to have cheese.

BEHAR: The French and the Italians have survived for thousands of years with cheese and wine and pasta and everything else that`s great to eat. Why is it such a mystery here how to cook?

RAY: You know, I think that there was just a couple of generations there where we were double-income families working two and three jobs, and we simply seriously did not have the time to learn, and then you dropped a generation. Because you know, the child wasn`t learning from the mom or even the dad.

BEHAR: Right. They even dropped home economics in junior high school.

RAY: That`s right, and then the whole school system changed, so it wasn`t part of the basic tools. You used to get vocational training, period. You`d leave -- there were auto mechanics class, basic shop, home economics.

BEHAR: They don`t do that anymore.

RAY: So you could go out in the world and get a job as any sort of laborer or mechanic or work in the food industry. You could leave high school with the tools you needed to make a living.

BEHAR: Or to live.

RAY: Exactly. To provide for yourself. And that all that went away when it only became about the testing, only getting the test scores out of these kids. And that`s where part of the lunch problem failed as well. They cut their time down. So some kids are in and out of the lunch room in 20 minutes time. They got to get in there, get the food, sit down, shovel it in and get out. They lose their social skills, and, you know, the lunch room itself has seen a huge dietary, you know, disaster over the decades, cutting the funding for everything except the testing.

BEHAR: See, see, that`s interesting what you say. Because basically you`re talking about a system that is not working and then they blame it on fat kids. All you hear about is obesity with children. It`s really not their fault.

RAY: We did this to all of our children.

BEHAR: It`s not fair. Yes. They don`t play outside anymore.

RAY: It`s a multi-layer failure. They took away recess, and we allowed it to happen. I don`t have a human kid, but I feel as responsible to be a part of fixing this as the next person, because I make my living in food, and it`s my responsibility to help the next generation be healthier. And the fact of the matter is, this is a big political issue for me because no one can afford the price of kids that are on cholesterol medicine under the age of 10.

BEHAR: Oh, my God.

RAY: You know, not to mention what it`s doing to their insides, their mentality, whether or not they`re able to learn in school. All of this is affected by the nutrition that those kids are getting.

BEHAR: That`s true. That`s true. A lot of times too many carbs can get you like in a groggy state and you can`t think.

RAY: Or being, you know, at school, and you live in a low-income family, you don`t have breakfast at home and there`s no breakfast program there, having to work all day with nothing -- no fuel to go on.

BEHAR: Exactly. OK, I`m going to switch now to Jennifer Lopez.

RAY: Beautiful.

BEHAR: She`s just been named the most beautiful woman in the world by "People" magazine. I guess they haven`t seen us lately.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: But she`s 41, she says she feels better and smarter now than she did in her 20s. What do you think about that? Where were you at in your 20s?

RAY: I don`t even vaguely remember last week, let alone a couple of decades back. But being over 40, I`m thrilled that a woman over 40 is on the top of that list. I think it gives it a little perspective. And, you know, knowing her a little bit as I do, I think she`s as beautiful on the inside as she is on the out. And I think that`s--

BEHAR: Why, have you X-rayed her? How do you know?

(LAUGHTER)

RAY: I haven`t X-rayed her, but the amount of time she spends with the audience, you know, before and after, when she`s doing her segment or something, the fact that if she really loves something in the green room, she`ll ask for a little extra to take home to her husband.

BEHAR: Oh, you mean when she comes on your show?

RAY: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

RAY: They`re great to people. As are you.

BEHAR: Yes. And some people are not, right? But you don`t have to name who they are, but some people are not.

RAY: Some people are -- do surprise you. Yes.

BEHAR: Demanding and diva behavior, male and female.

RAY: Not really demanding so much, it just surprises you that there is a difference between--

BEHAR: Who they are on television.

RAY: Who they are in your head. You know? That`s why I love actually the flip side of, you know, our content is to have our own viewers as a large part of the contributors to the talk show and to the magazine. I like the human labs, you know, when they -- when our own viewers are test driving different products, or, you know, promises that beauty products make or something. I like having conversations with people that point out literally anybody can be a Rachael Ray. You know, because it flips those tables around. We like to have those people on and make them feel like rock stars. And then when the rock stars come on, sometimes it`s surprising how different they are in than what you imagine.

BEHAR: I don`t know that everybody can achieve what you have, Rachael. It`s not that easy. Your whole story is not what--

RAY: I think anybody can in this country because it still is a place where if you work really hard and --

BEHAR: Well, there`s a certain amount of luck.

RAY: There`s an enormous amount of luck to it.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Certain amount of talent.

RAY: Absolutely.

BEHAR: There`s a certain amount of geography involved, although you started in Buffalo. That`s not exactly the (inaudible)--

RAY: Upstate New York, yes.

BEHAR: Yes. That`s not exactly the center of the industry.

RAY: No. In fact, none of the stuff, the TV stuff and all that happened until after I moved back to the country. I wasn`t living in New York at all.

I don`t mean specifically, you know, being on TV.

BEHAR: But successful at what you want to do.

RAY: Exactly. Whatever it is you are deeply, you know, passionate about, if you work really hard at it, I do believe that this is still a place where there is unique opportunity for people.

BEHAR: How much tofu is in here?

RAY: Not a lot of tofu. I`m not a huge tofu head.

BEHAR: Really, the last two letters of the word tofu, that pretty much sums up my feelings about tofu. The new and improved version of her magazine, "Every Day With Rachael Ray," is on newsstands now. We`ll be back in a minute. Thank you, sweetheart.

RAY: I love you, Joy.

BEHAR: I`m going to eat everything--

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONI BRAXTON, SINGER: I love my sister so much, but I cannot deny it that some days I wish I could just have my own background singers, and there were moments when I went on tour and I had no background singers. And let me tell you, life was good. But I did miss my sisters being there with me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Drive safely. I love you guys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: That was Grammy-winning singer Toni Braxton and her sisters in the new We TV reality show "Braxton Family Values." And she`s with me now. Hi, Toni, you`re so cute. I find you so adorable.

TONI BRAXTON: Thank you. Thank you for that.

BEHAR: It`s just adorable. And I saw your show, and your sisters are backup singers.

TONI BRAXTON: They hate it.

BEHAR: And your mom is a manager.

TONI BRAXTON: No. My mom`s actually divorced after 35 years of marriage. So my brother-in-law is my manager.

BEHAR: That`s right. What am I saying?

TONI BRAXTON: Yes. That`s OK.

BEHAR: Your brother-in-law is your manager ...

TONI BRAXTON: Yes.

BEHAR: ... and he also is married to one of your sisters, Tamar.

TONI BRAXTON: My sister Tamar.

BEHAR: OK. This ...

TONI BRAXTON: Is it a bit confusing?

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: I got mixed up. Now, didn`t you and your sister start out as a group, so ...

TONI BRAXTON: We did ...

BEHAR: ... but then you became the lead.

TONI BRAXTON: Yes. Yes.

BEHAR: So what happened?

TONI BRAXTON: You know, we had this big album, I call it big album, it sold three copies, my mom, my dad, my grandma. In 1990 it was called "The Braxtons." We were signed to Arista Records with Clive Davis, and Clive didn`t know what to do with us. He said you`re so talented, but it`s an age thing, I don`t know how to market them. So he introduced us ...

BEHAR: What do you mean it`s an age thing?

TONI BRAXTON: Because I`m 12 years younger than my younger sister and I`m almost five years over -- older, excuse me, older than my next sister. So it`s me, so when I was 15, my next sister was 10.

BEHAR: I see.

TONI BRAXTON: It was a big difference. He didn`t know how to market us. Do we do what -- do we do baby booty dresses, you know, do we do Oshkosh. It was a bit of a marketing thing.

BEHAR: I see. OK. So, now we were talking about your boobs before.

TONI BRAXTON: Yes.

BEHAR: And so they`re not -- they`re only half real, right?

TONI BRAXTON: They are only half real. Parts of them are real.

BEHAR: There was an explosion?

TONI BRAXTON: Well, they said it exploded. I`ve read that about them. But it`s so not true. What happened is they moved -- the scar tissue forced them to move over.

BEHAR: Yes.

TONI BRAXTON: And my doctor took them out, but it was just too much extra skin, it was not cute, girls, let me tell you. If you get them out, you`ve got to get something in there.

BEHAR: You`ve got to leave something there.

TONI BRAXTON: You`ve got to get something.

BEHAR: Otherwise they just flop around.

TONI BRAXTON: Just figs ...

BEHAR: Yes. Yes.

TONI BRAXTON: Just figs, not attractive.

BEHAR: I see.

TONI BRAXTON: So I got the smallest little things, just to absorb some of the space. So now ...

BEHAR: They`re very perky now.

TONI BRAXTON: Thank you.

BEHAR: And I`ve read that you may be posing for "Playboy." Is that true?

TONI BRAXTON: I`ve been considering it. You know, this is like the third time they`ve asked me. And I think one of the main reasons I was so interested this time is because I had -- you know, I found out I had lupus. And I was feeling so down on myself, and I said, wow, they think I`m sexy? I`m still sexy? They think I could pose for that? So that`s one of the main reasons I`ve been entertaining it as much as I have.

BEHAR: When did you find out you had lupus?

TONI BRAXTON: Three years ago.

BEHAR: A-ha.

TONI BRAXTON: Just before the "Dancing with the Stars."

BEHAR: What are your symptoms that you have?

TONI BRAXTON: They knew for sure when I had the micro-vascular angina. I say angina, I used to say angina ...

BEHAR: Yes.

TONI BRAXTON: So people used to look down. So I say angina. But ...

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: That`s funny.

TONI BRAXTON: Yes. But, you know, they say that window, that blood window allowed them to see that it was lupus, because in the past I had pericarditis and things like that. But they missed the window of checking the blood.

BEHAR: Yes.

TONI BRAXTON: So I`ve had lupus all that time and just didn`t know. It was chronic fatigue. My white blood cells was like a 1.9.

BEHAR: You have a lot of things.

TONI BRAXTON: Because I have lupus.

BEHAR: You have a heart condition too.

TONI BRAXTON: Because lupus -- my lupus loves my heart.

BEHAR: So, the lupus -- wait, the lupus is indicated in the heart condition?

TONI BRAXTON: For me, yes.

BEHAR: Oh, I see.

TONI BRAXTON: Yes.

BEHAR: And then -- and between the boobs and the lupus and the heart condition, look at you -- you`re perfect.

TONI BRAXTON: Thank you for that.

BEHAR: You are perfect.

TONI BRAXTON: Thanks, thanks.

BEHAR: And I have also read that you filed for bankruptcy twice.

TONI BRAXTON: I did.

BEHAR: What`s up with that? What are you, a shopaholic? Is that it?

TONI BRAXTON: No, well, I do like to shop like every other girl, but that wasn`t true. What happened was the first time I filed bankruptcy, I couldn`t talk about it, because there is this gag order, this 10-year gag order. And TLC and I were both labelmates, and they filed for bankruptcy, remember, and I did too. But no one knew that my royalty statement was less than $2,000 after I sold 40 million records, after "Un-break My Heart." I couldn`t tell that part. So I had to suffer through that bankruptcy. The first time. The second time -- that sounds terrible to say the second time. But the second time is because I found out I had lupus. I was doing my Vegas show. And I was forced to cancel that show and all my upcoming concerts.

BEHAR: Right.

TONI BRAXTON: So I filed bankruptcy for protection, so that all those vendors wouldn`t come after me. I tried to work out a deal, actually, like a Chapter 11 and they said no.

BEHAR: I see.

TONI BRAXTON: Yes.

BEHAR: So where are you at now with that? Are you OK now with that?

TONI BRAXTON: Good days and bad days. Today is not my best day, but I`ve had some great days. As long as I take my medication, I`m doing great. I hadn`t taken it in the last two days because I`ve been a little busy. But you know it`s funny.

BEHAR: But how`s the money? How`s the money? Is that better?

TONI BRAXTON: The money is what it is. My lifestyle will definitely have to change because I was living a lifestyle ...

BEHAR: You have a beautiful house.

TONI BRAXTON: Thank you for that.

BEHAR: That`s a nice house.

TONI BRAXTON: My lifestyle, what it was, because I was working and had the income. So, but I will have to change it. I can`t have the summer house.

BEHAR: Yeah, but you keep yourself cheerful.

TONI BRAXTON: I work on it.

BEHAR: And you have a child with -- that has an issue too.

TONI BRAXTON: Two wonderful delicious boys, and my youngest son Diesel (ph) suffers from autism, but I`m one of the lucky parents. I found out when he was young. I knew when he was one, one and a half, actually.

BEHAR: You did.

TONI BRAXTON: Because I had an older son to compare them. I hate to say the word comparison, but he wasn`t developing like his brother. He wasn`t social, he had no eye contact, behavior things. He would line things up and get fixated on items, and so I was one of the fortunate ones. I found out early and I was able to itemize whatever his deficits were. So very lucky.

BEHAR: He gets some therapy now.

TONI BRAXTON: Lots of therapy. ABA is very important. I can`t stress that enough. That`s applied behavior analysis, it`s like -- I hate to say specialized nanny, but I call it that because they work so closely with your child. But Diesel now is in public school.

BEHAR: How old is he now?

TONI BRAXTON: He is eight.

BEHAR: He`s eight.

TONI BRAXTON: Special education program, though.

BEHAR: Yes, yes, yes. He`s coming along?

TONI BRAXTON: He`s coming along great. We -- I predict by the time he is 12 or 13, he`ll probably show very minimal signs of autism.

BEHAR: You`re taking care of it.

TONI BRAXTON: Yes, one of the lucky -- and it`s very expensive. People don`t understand that everyone talks about how much I owe this and that, they don`t talk about all the millions of dollars I paid in taxes, and I don`t qualify for anything for my special-needs child. Oh, you make too much money, he can`t get those things.

BEHAR: So you have to pay for it.

TONI BRAXTON: I have to pay for them all privately, and they are expensive.

BEHAR: OK. When we come back, I want to talk to your sister, Tamar.

TONI BRAXTON: I know you do.

BEHAR: Because she`s a spitfire in your show.

TONI BRAXTON: Yes.

BEHAR: OK. So stay right there, we`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I doubt if you`ll be singing my background.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wouldn`t make that face with that glue looking stuff on your face.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: That was singer Toni Braxton and her sister Tamar in the new We TV reality show "Braxton Family Values." And they are both here right now.

So I watched the show. And you seem to be upset with your husband, who is Toni`s manager.

TAMAR BRAXTON, TONI BRAXTON`S SISTER: Well, yes, a little bit.

BEHAR: You were yelling at him.

TAMAR BRAXTON: Well.

BEHAR: He manages Toni and Lady Gaga.

TAMAR BRAXTON: Yes.

BEHAR: And I sort of picked up that maybe you didn`t feel he`s doing enough for your career, right?

TAMAR BRAXTON: Almost like I`m good enough to sing background but I`m not good enough to sing a duet or sing by myself, you know?

BEHAR: Why -- he`s here. We might be able to ask him. Why doesn`t he push you?

TAMAR BRAXTON: That`s the question we all want to know.

BEHAR: Well, what do you think is the reason, Toni?

TONI BRAXTON: Well, I would imagine it`s challenging when your wife is on your record label. And if things don`t go right, it would probably cause friction in the household. And he wants to make sure the songs are perfect and she wants to come out right now today, let`s do it.

BEHAR: How much experience do you have singing alone?

TAMAR BRAXTON: I`ve been singing background since I was 12 years old. I`m just saying.

BEHAR: Yeah. Well, maybe you need another manager. You ever think of that?

TAMAR BRAXTON: We`re not going to cause problems. I only been married two years. I want to be married for at least five until we start that.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: All right, well, look, maybe you can handle it. So step up to the plate.

(CROSSTALK)

TONI BRAXTON: A little bit of it is her mouth.

TAMAR BRAXTON: I do have to say that.

BEHAR: Her mouth, what`s the matter with her mouth?

TAMAR BRAXTON: I`m just very candid, and it hasn`t, you know --

BEHAR: Are the other sisters like you, too? Because you seem to be the most candid.

TONI BRAXTON: Yes. All different personalities.

TAMAR BRAXTON: Yes, totally.

TONI BRAXTON: Yes, my sister Trina, she likes the sauce a bit.

BEHAR: Oh, really?

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: And Tawanda? What does Tawanda--

TONI BRAXTON: She`s a wild card. Tawanda is my sister -- because of my parents` 35 years of marriage and now divorce, she has an open marriage. Because she wants her kids to grow up with a mom and a dad in the household.

BEHAR: I see, so she feels like an open marriage, they`ll stay together?

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: You don`t get that?

TAMAR BRAXTON: No, I don`t.

BEHAR: This part I don`t get about you. You say on the show you want to adopt an Asian baby and raise her black. That`s a sort of a circuitous route. Isn`t it? Why not just adopt a black child?

TAMAR BRAXTON: I mean, ask everyone in Hollywood, you know what I mean? So.

(CROSSTALK)

TAMAR BRAXTON: I don`t get the big, you know--

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: But an Asian kid might not have attitude right away.

TAMAR BRAXTON: I`ll raise her.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: You`re going to raise her with attitude.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: How will you raise her, let`s say a Chinese child, to have attitude?

TAMAR BRAXTON: Well, I`m assuming she`d be like her mother.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: If she`s adopted, it won`t be genetic. You`ll have to really teach her.

TAMAR BRAXTON: I don`t think that`s hard to pick up. Do you think so?

(CROSSTALK)

TAMAR BRAXTON: -- from my mouth. you know, I think it`s helped them (ph) a lot, don`t you think?

BEHAR: All right. I thank you for coming on.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: -- both their careers and Lady Gaga`s career. Music for the world. "The Braxton Family Values," airs Tuesday at 9 p.m. on We TV. Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.

END