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Joy Behar Page
Interview with Ricky Gervais; Interview With Anthony Bourdain
Aired April 19, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Donald Trump says he`ll release his tax reports when Obama releases his birth certificate. Donald, you really need to let go of this birther business. Just about everyone else has. I mean Bill O`Reilly gave up the birther thing, Karl Rove gave up the birther thing; even Arizona Governor Jan Brewer got a bill this week on her desk about this birther thing and she vetoed it. And the woman is slightly to the right of Kaiser Wilhelm, ok? So let it go, Donald. Let it go. Let go and let God. Please.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, the hilarious Ricky Gervais talks about his rise to fame and fortune, from techno pop star to a no-holds-barred comedian.
Then Joy will find out why GOP insiders are saying move over Ms. Palin, make some room for Donald Trump.
Plus globe-trotting chef, Anthony Bourdain gets Joy to play along in an exotic food taste test.
That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: Ricky Gervais is not only funny but British; two of my favorite qualities in a guest. His new special, "Talking Funny", sees Ricky talking with Chris Rock, Louis C.K. and Jerry Seinfeld. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICKY GERVAIS, COMEDIAN: Why do people have this feeling of laughter and they find it`s funny? What if they discover they can do it themselves?
CHRIS ROCK: They can.
JERRY SEINFELD, COMEDIAN: They can do it themselves.
GERVAIS: But why are they paying us?
SEINFELD: They can`t do it as well.
ROCK: No, they can`t do it as well.
SEINFELD: We are higher --
LOUIS C.K., COMEDIAN: They can play touch football, too. They can watch each other play football.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ricky Gervais is with me now. Welcome to the show.
GERVAIS: Hello.
BEHAR: You were so hysterical at that. Were you high? Were you stoned?
GERVAIS: We`re laughing. No. That`s my -- that is -- I`m so privileged to have this job when you can sit around with funny people. I`ve always been attracted to funny people. My friends, my family, there`s nothing better than laughing.
BEHAR: I know.
GERVAIS: There`s just, you know -- I am -- I sort of celebrate the fact that I`m around funnier people than me all the time. It`s a joy.
BEHAR: It`s a great defense against the tragedies of life also.
GERVAIS: Well, I mean, that`s it, isn`t it? That`s what humor is, I think. I think that`s why I think we evolved with that, it`s a shield and a sword, it just gets you through and it`s a release. I think it`s -- it helps you through.
BEHAR: They always say comedians are unhappy in childhood and everything. I don`t know. They asked Mel Brooks one time, were you unhappy as a child? No, he said, I had love all around me. I wanted to reproduce that. I wasn`t unhappy.
GERVAIS: Yes. I didn`t have a tragic life at all, no. And I remember it being -- I didn`t even know I was poor until I went to university and they were all talking like Prince Charles, you know, so.
BEHAR: How does that sound? Doesn`t sound like you?
GERVAIS: They all talk like this.
BEHAR: Clenched.
GERVAIS: Yes. Yes. I didn`t realize I was working class. But then I played up on it.
BEHAR: You know, you and I have a lot in common. I`ve been reading about you and thinking about it. First of all, I grew up in a working class family. I had no idea we were poor, you know? My aunts had mink stoles, we looked like we were rich.
GERVAIS: Really? We say fur coat, no knickers.
BEHAR: Yes. Exactly.
GERVAIS: Not about your aunt, I don`t know your aunt.
BEHAR: Who knows?
GERVAIS: Who knows? I certainly don`t. I can tell you now, I have no evidence whether your aunt wore knickers or not. I assume she did, but I just like to say that. Thanks. Good night.
BEHAR: But so we have that, and then I have a spousal equivalent like yours. I`m not married. I`ve been with the guy 28 years and you`ve been with your girlfriend for how long?
GERVAIS: Around 1982.
BEHAR: Me too. 1982 is when I met him.
GERVAIS: We should have double dated.
BEHAR: How do you like that?
GERVAIS: Yes. We went at it very wrong. I`d have gone off with your partner.
BEHAR: Really?
GERVAIS: That`s weird, isn`t it?
BEHAR: That`s weird, yes.
GERVAIS: First about your aunt wearing no knickers and then I hit on your husband. You`re not married. It`s fine. He`s single.
BEHAR: Are you getting married?
GERVAIS: No. No. We are married.
BEHAR: You are married.
GERVAIS: Yes.
BEHAR: But, you know, for tax purposes I just found out it`s a good idea to be married. That`s why gays want to get married.
GERVAIS: That`s romantic.
BEHAR: Isn`t it?
GERVAIS: Exactly, yes.
BEHAR: That`s what he said when I told him that.
GERVAIS: You know, I love you so much, we could save tax.
BEHAR: Well, it`s an economic institution.
GERVAIS: No. But we, you know, we`ve lived together 25 years and everything`s equal and everything`s split. All we didn`t do is go to a strange ceremony in a big building with, you know, our relatives. We don`t ever want them to meet.
BEHAR: No.
GERVAIS: And now I`m rich. I don`t need toasters.
BEHAR: You don`t need anything.
GERVAIS: I`ve got millions -- I`ve got golden toasters.
BEHAR: Do you like being rich? Do you like being rich?
GERVAIS: It`s better than being poor but I`m not bothered. Really.
BEHAR: You`re not bothered by it.
GERVAIS: No, it doesn`t faze me.
BEHAR: It doesn`t annoy you to be rich.
GERVAIS: It doesn`t faze me, no. It`s funny you should say that because I never worried about that sort of thing. It was -- when I grew up, there was a sort of nobility in poverty. Do you know what I mean?
BEHAR: There was what?
GERVAIS: There was a nobility.
BEHAR: Oh, nobility.
GERVAIS: There was a sort of -- they were people who are proud to be working people. We were never wallowing, you know, we were all in the same boat. We didn`t have any money. My dad was a laborer, my mom was a housewife. But she was always clean being cleaning and she was always planting roses in the garden to make it look nice. And I thought that were the important things.
And then I suppose I grew up on fairy tales. Just because you were rich and successful and powerful that didn`t mean you had anything more than someone who wasn`t. One of my favorite phrases is "Ability is poor man`s wealth."
I love the idea that --
BEHAR: And talent.
GERVAIS: Exactly, yes. And I suppose I learned a lesson, I was so unambitious. I was, you know, lazy. And when I did "The Office; it was the first thing I ever tried my hardest at and I got hooked to that. I got hooked to the work itself; and even if it hadn`t won awards and made me rich or whatever, I couldn`t have been prouder of it.
And in fact, the first time the check came through the door it sort of ruined it a bit.
BEHAR: Did it? Why?
GERVAIS: Well, because -- don`t worry, I got over it. I`m not an idiot. I gave it back.
BEHAR: It ruined it because, why?
(CROSSTALK)
GERVAIS: I didn`t want it -- it was purer why I`d done it before. And now it was like, it was a business. And it is a business, I am in show business and I take care of the business side of things and I get paid for it. But it`s never the -- it`s never the reason I do it. Just like fame was never the reason.
I think people think that most people -- and some people do become an actor or whatever just because they want fame. Well, I never did that. I love writing and creating comedy. There`s nothing that gives me adrenaline rush like an idea.
BEHAR: You do it to survive also. I mean I think, it`s like you have to do it.
GERVAIS: I remember when I did "The Office", I knew that if it was successful -- if I was a successful actor in something that I`d written, that I`d be a famous person and I worried about that. I worried about the press intrusion, particularly in England, they can be a bit rough, and --
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
GERVAIS: I never signed that deal with the devil. I never said make me famous and you can go through my bins. So I talked about the work. And I didn`t really love dealing with those celebrities that do anything to be famous. They live their life like an open wound.
BEHAR: Like who?
GERVAIS: Well, you know them.
BEHAR: Name names.
GERVAIS: No. No, I won`t, but they`re the ones that call the press and say I`m coming to the airport. You know?
BEHAR: Yes, or I`m going to be at the Ivy in L.A. I`ll be there. Send the press.
GERVAIS: And I remember when "The Office" broke, a journalist rubbed me up the wrong way, they said, so what advice would you give to other people who want to be famous like you? I went, I`d tell them to go out and get a prostitute. Because it annoyed me they thought that that was anything to do with anything I did. And anyone can be famous. You can -- you can murder someone to --
BEHAR: That`s true.
GERVAIS: Fame -- there`s no difference nowadays between fame and infamy. People do horrendous things and they tell horrendous things because it would sell their autobiography. Oh, God. Just keep it to yourself. Please.
BEHAR: Your comedy is uncompromising too, I think. I think that you basically get out there and say what you think and what you think is funny, and that`s it. Take it or leave it. Yes?
GERVAIS: I try and please me. That`s all I try and do. I try and please me. And people think that`s arrogant and smug. It`s not. It`s because if you try and please someone else, you`ll come unstuck. It`s just empty. You know?
I don`t want to do stuff made by committee. I don`t want to change one word because it would be more popular or get more ratings because I couldn`t live with myself. And listen, there`s no guarantee, if you sell out, there`s no guarantee you`ll be successful and all you`ve done is sold out. So I think the best thing to do, please yourself, get the final idea, be happy with that product and you`re bulletproof.
BEHAR: Yes. You know, Larry David said on his show the more people I can offend the better.
GERVAIS: I don`t try to offend people, but I say what I believe. And if they`re offended that`s not my problem, because just because you`re offended it doesn`t mean you`re in the right. You know? No one has the right not to be offended. Ok?
BEHAR: Do you think that this sense that you have about the, you know, the purity of the work which I hear you saying is because you started late? Because you did start late in life; you`re not a -- you didn`t start as a 20-year-old.
GERVAIS: I think that I came with a slightly, you know, wiser head on my shoulders I suppose. I didn`t start until 40, but I suppose I`d learned a few lessons. I feared I`d seen people sort of live their life to be famous and not get happiness. I knew that wasn`t the answer to happiness. And I suppose when I was about 20 I wanted to be a pop star and I sort of tried, not a bit of success.
BEHAR: Can you sing? You`re a singer.
GERVAIS: Yes, I`m ok, yes. But my mistake was I wanted to be a pop star and I should have wanted to be a musician.
BEHAR: Oh.
GERVAIS: And that stayed with me. You know?
BEHAR: What instrument did you play?
GERVAIS: I played guitar and I sang, but it was -- it was, you know, I found what I was good at eventually.
BEHAR: Yes.
GERVAIS: And there`s just no rush. There`s just no rush.
BEHAR: No because it doesn`t matter when you`re successful at something in life as long as you are at some point I guess.
GERVAIS: No, and it doesn`t even matter if you`re successful in these terms. I think the important thing is doing something you enjoy.
BEHAR: That`s right, words to live by. We`ll have more with Ricky Gervais in just a second.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, chef, Anthony Bourdain drops by to talk about the new season of his hit series "No Reservations".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Believe it or not, that was Ricky Gervais in his `80s pop group "Fiona Dancing". What? That`s you? Did you have a sex change?
GERVAIS: What? I know what you`re saying -- I know what you`re saying, you can`t believe that gorgeous being turned into this fat old lump. That`s what you`re saying. I know you`re saying that.
BEHAR: Oh my -- no, the hair. What -- you still --
(CROSSTALK)
GERVAIS: No, don`t give me it`s the hair that`s slightly different.
BEHAR: Wow.
GERVAIS: Yes, wow. I mean --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That`s so shock -- look at you.
GERVAIS: What`s so shocking? We all get old.
BEHAR: What year is that? The `60s, `70s?
GERVAIS: Yes but no.
BEHAR: The `80s. I`m sorry, I said the `80s. Oh, my God. That is unbelievable. I`m trying to think of who you look like, though. There`s something about you. David Bowie-ish.
GERVAIS: Oh he was my hero.
BEHAR: Oh so you copied the look a little.
GERVAIS: Well, I borrowed.
BEHAR: And you say you`re fat.
GERVAIS: I was influenced by it.
BEHAR: You`re not fat now.
GERVAIS: I`ve lost a bit.
BEHAR: How much did you lose?
GERVAIS: About 20-odd pounds.
BEHAR: Oh. That`s not much.
GERVAIS: No, you`re not impressed, are you? It`s brilliant. Not as good as him.
BEHAR: I`ve had people come on, I lost 80 pounds, you know, and you really see the difference.
GERVAIS: I didn`t have 80 pounds to lose. I wasn`t that fat.
BEHAR: No, you weren`t. But you used to do fat jokes -- do you still do fat jokes?
GERVAIS: No, not now. I would look mean.
BEHAR: It looks mean now, yes.
GERVAIS: Yes, well, I did -- yes I did fat jokes when I was fat and then you know.
BEHAR: You have to be fat to do fat jokes.
GERVAIS: I still think those things. I just don`t say them anymore.
BEHAR: Well, you could do jokes about being fat.
GERVAIS: Well, I never -- I never said there was anything wrong with being fat. I mainly said it was your own fault. I got fat because I ate too much and I didn`t work out enough. Done, that`s the simple science.
BEHAR: That`s true.
GERVAIS: You know, yes, no one -- no one`s sneaking in and injecting my lettuce with 1,000 calories. No one gets fat behind their own bath, no one goes, why, what`s happen there? It`s all the pies. We know it`s the pies.
You know, I knew it at the time. I stopped eating so many pies and I went for a jog. That`s it. You know? But it`s not -- it`s your choice, it`s everyone`s choice. And I`m saying there`s nothing wrong with being fat if that`s what you like.
BEHAR: Yes. No one likes to be fat.
GERVAIS: Well, you know, I didn`t care that much. But, no, it`s -- it`s -- I did it because I didn`t want to die, really. That`s the truth.
BEHAR: Really.
GERVAIS: Because I thought, you know, 49, that`s enough now.
BEHAR: Yes.
GERVAIS: That`s enough. I was one of those guys that -- that do wake up and go what happened? You know it`s been a steady process. You know after -- after that video was shot --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
GERVAIS: -- I went out and discovered pizza and then --
BEHAR: You did?
GERVAIS: I was steadily fatter for 20 years.
BEHAR: Were -- were you successful at that career at all?
GERVAIS: No.
BEHAR: But you looked like you were very good. You -- you know, you`ve got the little zip.
GERVAIS: Yes, I had the little zip. I`ve still got the little zip. Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You`ve got the zip.
GERVAIS: Is that what you call it? Yes when I was fat.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, no, no wait a minute I mean, it`s a different persona there. I`m looking at you and I`m thinking you know, you were going for like sexy and like lean and mean and sexy. Now you`re just like, you`re comedic.
GERVAIS: Just sexy now.
BEHAR: It`s different. It`s a different persona --
(CROSSTALK)
GERVAIS: Well, so not even sexy anymore. I`ve lost that. I`ve lost that.
BEHAR: No, sex and comedy don`t mix.
GERVAIS: No I know. No, you`ve got to be -- you`ve got to be a putz.
BEHAR: You`ve got to be a shlub or something.
GERVAIS: I actually -- yes and other just word about all of that jerk and shlub in them.
BEHAR: A shlub you know.
GERVAIS: Yes.
BEHAR: A guy who`s really handsome, like Carey Grant, although he was a comedic actor.
GERVAIS: Yes.
BEHAR: But if he did stand up, no one would laugh.
GERVAIS: No you`ve got -- you`ve got -- Larry David said, you`ve to come to terms for your own inadequacies.
BEHAR: That`s` right.
GERVAIS: Somehow, you`ve got -- I agree I think and we talked about this on "Talking Funny" that I think you should never be above the audience. And Jerry was saying, we already above the audience. You know, you`ve got the mike; you`re the only one talking. And I went no, but I mean is -- you can`t be --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, he was taking it literally that you --
GERVAIS: Well, no, I understand what he meant, but I`m -- I like -- I like Louie C.K. who comes out and every story is about how the world screwed him over.
BEHAR: Yes.
GERVAIS: And I love that.
BEHAR: Yes.
GERVAIS: I love that. And I come out and I sometimes I play the other edge, I pretend to be arrogant and above but I know, I`m -- I`m doing that for effect. But I think a comedian has got to fall over for our pleasure. I don`t -- I don`t want to hear, as you say, someone visibly (ph) handsome telling me what a great life they`ve got.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Exactly, it`s not funny.
GERVAIS: No. It`s like yes --
BEHAR: No, it`s annoying, actually.
GERVAIS: -- well, it`s just -- it`s just not funny.
BEHAR: Yes. So this is why you now, women are like Joan Rivers used to be criticized for being self-deprecating but that is what comedy is, you know. And Rodney Dangerfield, I get no respect. It`s the same idea that you`re talking about Louie C.K. It`s self-deprecating.
GERVAIS: I think you`ve always, you and the audience --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Right.
GERVAIS: -- have got to be victims together. Your targets can look like soft targets but really you`ve got -- you`ve got to prick the bubble. It`s got to be your -- you know, your -- your pretensions or our pretensions. Sometimes I play a slight character where I come down the wrong side and I go for soft targets and I`m wrong. You know?
But they know that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
GERVAIS: They know --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
GERVAIS: I think -- I think they`re clever enough to know when I`m getting something wrong and when I`m actually really going for something. So --
BEHAR: You find the audiences to be very smart, your audience?
GERVAIS: Well, you have to find the audience.
BEHAR: Well, don`t they find you?
GERVAIS: Well, exactly.
BEHAR: Yes.
GERVAIS: I`m -- you know, I`m sort of quite Darwinist about this. I think you do your own thing and you find a group of people somewhere in the world that likes that.
BEHAR: That`s right. You can`t please everybody.
GERVAIS: No, and you shouldn`t try because if you do you`re pleasing no one. You know? And there`s six billion people on this planet. If you just try and please yourself, there`s going to be a few people that agree with you.
BEHAR: That`s -- that`s true.
GERVAIS: It`s true. You know? I don`t want to --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Do you get nervous? You did talk a little bit in the HBO special about being a little -- all of you are anxiety-ridden before you go on, and it`s difficult, the work. I mean, I do it and it`s very hard sometimes for me to be calm before I go out.
GERVAIS: I don`t get nervous, you know, I want to make sure I do a good performance. The worst thing for me is dropping (ph) a line. I`m angry with myself. I don`t mind if I`ve said it, I don`t mind if they laugh. I don`t mind if they gasp; but they`ve got to understand it. You know.
It`s like on "The View" today.
BEHAR: Yes. The other day.
GERVAIS: The other day.
BEHAR: The other day, yes.
On "The View" the other day, what happened? What happened? I don`t even remember it, it was so long ago.
All right.
We`ll be -- we`ll have more with Ricky Gervais after a quick break. He`s going to collect himself.
GERVAIS: Oh, God.
BEHAR: Ok.
GERVAIS: I`ve ruined it. I`ve ruined the whole show.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, find out why Donald Trump has replaced Sarah Palin as the new darling of the Tea Party Movement.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CLIP FROM "THE OFFICE")
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was Ricky Gervais in the original "Office" and he`s back with me. You know what --
GERVAIS: Just an example of my uncompromising subtle comedy.
BEHAR: Exactly.
GERVAIS: Genius. Like Oscar Wilde.
BEHAR: The purity of it is astounding.
GERVAIS: It`s amazing, isn`t it? Yes.
BEHAR: I`m watching that and I`m thinking, this is the reason that women have a harder time with comedy. I just realized it as I was watching you. Because girls have a reluctance to make fools of themselves the way you just did in that spot.
GERVAIS: Really?
BEHAR: You know what I mean? Girls are not as uninhibited as boys.
GERVAIS: That`s because they don`t want to show off as much as boys. Boys will do anything for a laugh.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, they don`t get rewarded for acting stupid.
GERVAIS: No, exactly, yes. Boys will do anything for attention and that includes making a fool of yourself. British are slightly different, British people -- it`s the biggest fear making a fool of yourself.
BEHAR: Really?
GERVAIS: Oh, really. Yes. Yes. John Cleese said an Englishman tries to get to his grave having never been embarrassed and it`s very true. I don`t care about that. I don`t care. I don`t get embarrassed because I don`t care about --
BEHAR: Because you`re a comic. You`re funny. You`re a free spirit.
GERVAIS: Yes. I just don`t think -- I always think, "What`s the worst that can happen? Who cares?"
BEHAR: I mean I`ll dance like that around the house and get my guy to laugh. He laughs --
GERVAIS: Absolutely.
BEHAR: -- when I act like that. But to do it in public I would be inhibited because I`m female.
GERVAIS: Well, I`m probably more -- yes, I`m more (INAUDIBLE) famous in the street doing it because again, I don`t want to look like showing off. You know.
BEHAR: Right. Put the camera on me sort of thing. There`s that. That is so tacky.
(CROSSTALK)
GERVAIS: But making a fool of yourself is, I think, is pretty much a staple of comedy. You can`t be the putz.
BEHAR: Otherwise, you can`t take others on, also.
GERVAIS: You can`t be cool and sexy, there`s nothing funny about it.
BEHAR: No, no. For sure.
Now, this whole business, "Rolling Stone" said this about your home which I found odd. It says in "Rolling Stone" about your houses, "He pushes a button and corrugated steel shutters grind to a close all over the house covering the windows. Now he`s sealed inside." Is this your idea of going back into the womb or something? What the hell?
GERVAIS: Ok, I`ve got steel shutters on all the windows, yes, for security. I do it when we go to bed or when we go on holiday. I don`t sit there like Howard Hughes in the dark.
BEHAR: What are you afraid is going to happen to you at night when you`re sleeping?
GERVAIS: What? You leave the windows open -- do you -- and the door open and go to bed?
BEHAR: No, people lock the doors. Sometimes they have a little bit of --
GERVAIS: Exactly.
BEHAR: -- a, you know, an alarm system, but steel shutters is a bit much, isn`t it?
GERVAIS: Well, yes, but that`s better than having bars on the window, isn`t it? Because you can -- it`s just --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes, I guess. But if the steel shutters are up during the day they can come in and kill you then.
GERVAIS: Now I`m going to keep them down in the day then.
BEHAR: That`s my point.
You`re going to also be with Larry -- I mentioned Larry David, you`re going to be on "Curb Your Enthusiasm".
GERVAIS: Yes, that was great.
BEHAR: What are you playing?
GERVAIS: I`m playing a twisted version of myself, a real sort of arrogant, pretentious actor. Hold on, what`s he saying?
BEHAR: Larry likes people to stay close to their real personality.
GERVAIS: Yes, exactly. I love Larry David. I think he`s one of the greatest modern geniuses of our time in comedy. I just love him. This just changed when he`s -- it`s so funny. He`s great.
BEHAR: And so are you.
GERVAIS: Thank you.
BEHAR: Thank you so much for coming on.
GERVAIS: I`ve been waiting for that.
BEHAR: -- for coming on with me.
GERVAIS: Even though I`ve lost my looks, yes?
BEHAR: No, you haven`t really. You just changed your looks.
GERVAIS: Edit that. Instead of saying, "You`re such a joy." Get one of the -- when she was saying he`s not sexy, just put in sexy. Yes.
BEHAR: I didn`t say that. I said that you were very hot there and that -- you can see Ricky on "Talking Funny", Friday at 9:00 p.m. on HBO.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Donald Trump may be leading the GOP right now, but a new poll from ABC and the Washington Post shows a full 40 percent of Republican voters not happy with their candidate choices. But I`ll bet Democratic voters are thrilled, thrilled, thrilled.
Here now to debate are Andrew Breitbart, conservative author of "Righteous Indignation," and Stephanie Miller, liberal host of the Stephanie Miller Show. You know, I just want to talk about the GOP candidates for a minute.
ANDREW BREITBART, AUTHOR, "RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION": When? Who?
BEHAR: These are the seven dwarves that I picked. You have Donald Trump as Grumpy, Tim Pawlenty as Sleepy, Mike Huckabee is Happy, Michele Bachmann is Dopey.
BREITBART: Not true.
BEHAR: Mitt Romney is Slicky, Sarah Palin is Hottie, and Rick Santorum is Homophobey. What do you think about those? Which one fits? Which one doesn`t, Andrew?
BREITBART: Gosh, you`re just such a mean liberal. How dare you caricature these people.
BEHAR: I`m so mean.
BREITBART: I don`t think we know who the candidate is going to be. The next year and a half is going to be a trial by fire. And the first Chris Christie, Scott Walker that emerges as an authentic fighter.
BEHAR: Chris Christie from New Jersey? You really -- you want him?
BREITBART: Somebody like that that has some testicular fortitude. The big problem, and since only liberals are listening and I don`t want to get in trouble with my core--
BEHAR: That`s not true. That is not true. This is HLN.
BREITBART: Right, I understand, but with my core constituency, the men in the Republican Party to a great extent are eunuchs. They are so cowed by political correctness that they are afraid to give an opinion without taking a poll to find out which is the right position on something. They alter their language because they don`t want to be called a racist, sexist or a homophobe. And so what people are looking for, and my peeps, the Tea Party crowd, is authenticity and someone who is willing to stand up for what they believe in.
BEHAR: So would you prefer if someone was anti-gay, they`d just come out and say it?
BREITBART: Well, no, I`m the guy who supported GoProud -- hey, Stephanie, hey, stop it over there, wherever you are.
STEPHANIE MILLER, STEPHANIE MILLER SHOW: You know what might help, Andrew? You know what might help? If you didn`t have so many racist homophobes in your party.
BREITBART: Oh, crap on that stuff. That`s not true. That`s your caricature that you use to drive that media narrative.
MILLER: Andrew, please. Out here in California, an Orange County Republican leader just sent yet another racist e-mail with the president`s face imposed on a chimp.
BREITBART: OK, fine, go to the first AMA Church or to a Hispanic church, where they are against gay marriage. You guys will protest proudly at the Mormon church, but you won`t protest at a black or Hispanic church. It`s hypocrisy that you would isolate only Republicans for having people that are homophobic.
BEHAR: OK.
MILLER: I`m sorry, that was probably unfair of me to imply someone`s a racist that would put the president`s face on a chimp. I`m sorry about that.
BREITBART: And I implicitly supported that. Of course that`s wrong that that person did that. Now what are you going to do when every single Republican says that what that person did is repugnant and he`s stepped down or whatever? He`s an arse.
BEHAR: OK, now, here`s an ABC/Washington Post poll that has Obama beating all seven potential candidates in hypothetical matchups. Good news, right, for the Democrats, Stephanie?
MILLER: Yes, and actually I think all seven of them put together, I think all of their ratings together he still beats them, even if they ran as one person. Yes, it`s -- you know, it`s not good news right now on the right. I think even Donald Trump got the important --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: Donald Trump got the important Gary Busey endorsement today, so I think it`s important people that have hit their head without a helmet several times, I think it`s important.
BEHAR: Trump is tied for the lead in a CNN poll with Romney, which I find astounding. Do you think that the other candidates are jealous that he`s stealing all of the thunder?
BREITBART: Well, the other candidates are starting to realize what they should have realized, I don`t know, 40, 50 years ago when Ed Sullivan got on the air, is that media is everything and that these guys don`t understand that a Donald Trump can go out there, know how to play the media and rise through the ranks when two years ago he was supporting Nancy Pelosi.
BEHAR: So what do you think, he`s a closet liberal? Is that what you`re saying?
BREITBART: I think Donald Trump -- and I don`t say this in the negative sense -- is for Donald Trump, and right now he`s doing an amazing job of promoting his brand. He`s utterly entertaining. He`s winning, a la, you know, Charlie Sheen, playing the media for what it is. It`s obvious.
BEHAR: But this birther thing that he`s been promoting is really ridiculous at this point. I mean, you know, I`ll tell you something. I got an e-mail from a friend of mine who wanted to get his passport renewed and he was born in 1947, right? They wouldn`t take his birth certificate. He had to go back to California and get a live birth paper, whatever that thing is that they`re talking about.
BREITBART: Well, I want to have a kumbaya moment.
BEHAR: So what does it mean? It means they don`t give them anymore.
BREITBART: I know. I want a kumbaya moment. Stephanie, can you hold virtual hands with me? I`m against the birther thing. Every time I hear it, I`m like, stop it, this is ridiculous.
BEHAR: I mean, pretty much Karl Rove and Eric Cantor have now dismissed--
BREITBART: Homophobe.
BEHAR: Why do you say that?
BREITBART: I don`t know. Just--
BEHAR: Just threw it out?
BREITBART: Yeah. Racist.
BEHAR: OK. But Karl Rove and Eric Cantor have all dismissed Trump as a fringe candidate. Karl Rove said that he was a joke. Stephanie, what does it mean when Karl Rove is the most rational person in the party?
MILLER: It`s -- they really are in trouble. I mean, let me just say, Trump is a ridiculous blowhard, and I do mean that in a negative sense, Andrew. If this is the best your party can do, what does it say about the Republican Party that he`s No. 1 in the polls among Republicans? Are you guys really that dumb?
BEHAR: What does it say, really?
BREITBART: It`s April of 2011.
BEHAR: So what?
BREITBART: Everything is going to change. I`m hardly worried about it. Your candidate is dipping in polls that are heavily skewed towards Democrats. You still have him at like 47 percent right now, and the economy is not getting any better.
BEHAR: We still have who at 47 percent?
BREITBART: Whatever the president`s name, I forgot. No, he`s not doing particularly well. What just happened--
MILLER: Andrew, don`t give up hope. Charlie Sheen -- Charlie Sheen might still jump in on the Republican side. Don`t give up hope.
BREITBART: Or Johnny Knoxville. That would be the candidacy I would support.
BEHAR: Let`s watch Trump on "Good Morning America" today with George Stephanopoulos. He was quite amusing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP: He doesn`t have a birth certificate or he hasn`t provided. He`s given us a certificate of live birth. It`s a much different --
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: Certificate of live birth meets the standard of--
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- anyone`s citizenship.
TRUMP: George--
STEPHANOPOULOS: There were contemporaneous reports in two Hawaiian newspapers.
TRUMP: George, they have co-opted you.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Those are the facts, sir.
TRUMP: George, they`ve co-opted you.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Who`s they?
TRUMP: Obviously Obama and his minions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: His minions. It pains me to think of anybody`s minions being co-opted. It hurts, doesn`t it?
BREITBART: Yes. I don`t have minions. You do, apparently.
BEHAR: Somebody`s got minions. I mean, is Trump crazy or what now? What`s the story? Is he in crazy land?
BREITBART: Look, entertainment uber alles. He`s very entertaining. You`re enjoying it, I`m enjoying it, and I didn`t like it when I would hear people on the right doing it. But now that it`s become sort of like the center ring at the circus, I`m sitting back and I am enjoying it.
BEHAR: Who would you like to see run on your ticket?
BREITBART: You know what? I don`t want your head to -- because we want to live in a civil society, this is a metaphor, but your head would explode -- and I know Stephanie`s would -- if Herman Cain and Allen West, two black Tea Party candidates, ran for office. Have fun calling everybody a racist when we vote for those guys to win the presidency.
BEHAR: Oh, that guy. What do you think of him?
BREITBART: I love Herman Cain.
MILLER: Let me just say my head would explode with pleasure, because they`re both two crazy birther teabaggers.
BREITBART: No, they`re not. No, they`re not.
MILLER: You do get that --
BREITBART: That`s malicious.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLER: -- it`s not just any black guy. Right? Didn`t you learn that with Michael Steele?
BREITBART: I love Michael Steele.
(CROSSTALK)
BREITBART: I like Michael Steele a lot. Don`t tell me what my opinion of Michael Steele is.
MILLER: But you guys, it`s like you`re going, hey, look, we have a black guy, too. It`s not just any black guy.
BREITBART: No, these guys have courage. What you don`t understand -- what you guys don`t understand is that the Tea Party is led by heroic women, and the best speakers at all these Tea Parties are black conservatives who know what the Democratic Party and liberal rule has done to the black community. The Great Society --
BEHAR: And the Republican Party is going to help them? I mean, come on. But let me ask you something, Herman Cain.
BREITBART: Love him.
BEHAR: You love him. He`s the one who said he wouldn`t appoint a Muslim to his administration. What do you think about that? Kind of racist, isn`t it?
BREITBART: He`s got to work on radical Islamist. That`s probably better nomenclature.
BEHAR: He didn`t say -- he said Muslim. He didn`t say radical Islamist.
BREITBART: Well, I don`t remember him saying that, but I think what he meant is somebody who`s a radical Islamist.
BEHAR: Don`t tell him what he meant.
BREITBART: OK. Well -- I like him. Godfather`s Pizza, he was my dad`s boss at the California National Restaurant Association. Good man.
MILLER: Joy, it`s OK if he`s racist against other groups, as long as he`s not racist against black people.
(CROSSTALK)
BREITBART: Stephanie went two minutes without accusing a Republican of racism. It was an impressive period of time.
MILLER: Saying I`m not going to appoint any Muslims is a little bit racist, Andrew.
BREITBART: Well, Muslim isn`t a race.
BEHAR: No, it`s a religion, so what`s the difference?
BREITBART: OK, well, I`m just saying.
BEHAR: So it`s like being anti-Semitic, it`s on that level.
BREITBART: No, it isn`t. It`s not racist.
BEHAR: It`s a religion, isn`t it?
BREITBART: Yeah, it is.
BEHAR: So?
BREITBART: And there are some people who--
BEHAR: Would you say that Hitler was not racist, even though he was anti-Semitic, isn`t it racism also?
BREITBART: Don`t confuse us. Simply speaking, having a problem with radical Islam or in his case if he did say that, that is not by definition racist. But leftists love to throw it out, that it just slips off of their tongue. Everyone`s a racist. Everyone.
BEHAR: Why does -- why would anyone put a radical Islamist fascist in their administration? I mean, duh. No one would do that.
BREITBART: You know what? What scares me the most about -- after 9/11, ten years after 9/11, we don`t even understand the religion. We`ve just been told to be politically correct towards it. And if you don`t -- you know what the term "takiah" (ph) is? Takiah is ...
BEHAR: Can you drink it?
BREITBART: That the Koran teaches that you can actually lie in the pursuit of jihad. It`s why Mohammed Atta was out going to strip clubs and pretending to be an American, even though he wanted to pursue jihad. So when the Koran teaches that you can lie in the pursuit of your thing, it`s not insane that people doubt whether Muslim people are, you know, think of themselves as Americans first or Muslims first. It`s not outrageous.
BEHAR: OK. I noticed -- I noticed ...
MILLER: You think that`s ...
BEHAR: Go ahead.
MILLER: You think that`s the ideal that this country was founded on is that we should say we`re not going to allow any Muslims in our cabinet?
BREITBART: I didn`t say that. I didn`t -- I didn`t say that. I didn`t say that. But I would say that we need to act like adults when we have a threat of this nature and not -- stop using political correctness to stop difficult debate.
BEHAR: OK. Thank you guys very much. For more on this, be sure to tune in tomorrow night when I interview the Donald`s wife, the Melania. And a quick note, Stephanie Miller`s Sexy Liberal Comedy Tour kicks off its world tour in Madison, Wisconsin, this Saturday. Oh, boy. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: He`s an outspoken, salty-mouthed chef who travels the world in search of unfamiliar places and unique cuisines. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible) Creole sauce.
ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CHEF: What`s in the Creole sauce? Tomato, onion, garlic?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Onion, garlic. Magic. Ask any chef here.
BOURDAIN: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re going to tell you about magic. There it is.
BOURDAIN: It`s the chicken bouillon. So that`s a fundamental ingredient. I`m loving the rice, I`m loving the piglies (ph), I`m loving the chicken. Lalo (ph)? I`m not so crazy about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t like the lalo?
BOURDAIN: Not loving it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Joining me now is the host of "Anthony Bourdain, No Reservations," and the author of "Medium Raw," Anthony Bourdain. Hey. You know, was the food delicious in that -- in Haiti when you ate that?
BOURDAIN: For the most part. I mean, it`s a struggle to put food on the table there, they don`t have a lot to work with, but it tastes really good.
BEHAR: I was very taken with the poverty level because of the hurricane and also just because of the poverty there and the terrible governments they`ve had to endure. You know, ever since God knows how many years ago.
BOURDAIN: They have an incredible--
BEHAR: It`s a terrible situation.
BOURDAIN: It is awful beyond imagining. But like a lot of great cooking cultures, I think people cook well because they have to. They don`t have any other options. They have to do a lot with a little.
BEHAR: That`s right. And I think a lot of the peasant communities come up with some great cuisine because of that, out of necessity.
BOURDAIN: Yes.
BEHAR: Pasta fagioli, the greatest.
BOURDAIN: Classic.
BEHAR: OK. Now, I called you an outspoken chef because you get into trouble a lot of times. Like you got in trouble with the Tea Party. You called them, "a lard of marginal, very angry white people." Did you get some flak from the network for that?
BOURDAIN: Not from the network. I mean, I got a lot of angry mail for sure.
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
BOURDAIN: That said, I mean, I am -- as ideologically I`m as far from the Tea Party as you can get. But I`m a little uncomfortable about relentlessly sneering at them. I sympathize with people who feel angry, disenfranchised, left out, forgotten, I mean I kind of understand that rage. And I -- and I -- if little else, you know, I think it`s more useful than to laugh relentlessly at them or to mock them. It is, I think useful from a chef`s point of view and as a traveler. I seem to get along with people with opposing views all over the world. You know, if I have one thing in common with the Tea Party it`s, you know, beer and barbecue. We both like that and that`s the beginning of something, right?
BEHAR: Right. Well, they shot back at you on the Web and they said that you -- that you want your comment, one of their comments was, Bourdain is a pig and he will live to regret making these hateful remarks. They meant it as a compliment.
BOURDAIN: Well, you know, as Homer Simpson, the great gourmet, says, you know, the pig is a magical animal, so in some ways I`m flattered.
BEHAR: Boy, that`s a good spin. I like it. But the only thing that you really said, you said a lot of marginal angry people. If you had just said angry white people, they wouldn`t have gotten mad at you. It`s the marginal part. People don`t like to think of themselves as stupid.
BOURDAIN: You know, I think you could just say -- easily say marginalized, I mean -- I think they certainly feel marginalized, which is why there`s all, you know, angry and frightened and ...
BEHAR: I know, but they are angry with other marginalized people. That`s the part I don`t care for them about. It`s like -- it`s like, it`s all about me, I`m the angry poor person, the next schmuck is not.
BOURDAIN: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s not right. You know what I -- that`s why I have issues with them.
BOURDAIN: No, I mean -- I won`t be voting for their candidate any time soon.
BEHAR: Yes. OK. Now you`ve also -- you have a lot of little controversial things about you, Anthony, which I love that about you. You`ve -- you also spoke about celebrity chefs selling out, such as Rachael Ray, Emeril Lagasse, Bobby Flay, you`ve changed your tune a little on that, right?
BOURDAIN: Well, I`ve kind of become ...
BEHAR: What did you mean?
BOURDAIN: I`ve become part of the problem.
BEHAR: Because you now are a sellout yourself?
BOURDAIN: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes. OK. I got it.
BOURDAIN: That`s really, yes. I think when I first started, you know, I made a career laughing at poor Emeril. I mean, he looks like escoffier (ph) now compared to some of the people out there.
BEHAR: You made remarks about his cooking?
BOURDAIN: Not his cooking but his persona, his show. I think, you know, when I sort of hit a theme (ph) early, I was still standing in a kitchen, you know, 12 hours a day and I couldn`t understand a chef who was so nice to people and loved, and I -- that just -- had no residence in reality to me. So of course I mocked him mercilessly. Maybe it tempered my views a little, you know, when some characters ...
BEHAR: Yes.
BOURDAIN: You know, others not. I mean if you -- if you haven`t seen this Sandra Lee Kwanzaa cake video on YouTube, I really advise you to see that. It`s just truly the most terrifying bit of viral video you will ever see in your life.
BEHAR: And whose is that?
BOURDAIN: Sandra Lee.
BEHAR: Sandra Lee. Oh, Mrs. -- first lady sort of ...
BOURDAIN: Yes.
BEHAR: ... she`s not married to him, of New York state.
BOURDAIN: She prepares something called Kwanzaa cake.
BEHAR: Kwanzaa cake?
BOURDAIN: Your eyes will explode in your skull.
BEHAR: What is in it?
BOURDAIN: It`s basically store-bought angel food cake, some canned frosting, a couple of corn nuts and a votive candle. I`m not exaggerating.
BEHAR: That`s rather creative in a way, isn`t it?
BOURDAIN: I`m going to go no further. The Tea Party doesn`t scare me, Sandra Lee scares me.
BEHAR: You know, since you -- since you`ve made those comments about Rachael and Emeril and Bobby, Rachael sent you a fruit basket, it says, and you stopped being mean to her. And you stopped saying mean things about her. You`re a cheap date, aren`t you?
BOURDAIN: I am a cheap date.
BEHAR: We`ll be back in a minute with Anthony Bourdain and some exotic dishes that he brought to me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with chef Anthony Bourdain. He`s brought some food along for me to try. Let`s just hope it`s not sheep`s testicles, which I hear is one of his favorites. When it comes to sheep, I prefer sweaters. Just saying. OK. Anthony. What have you got here?
BOURDAIN: Well, you called me in a good week, because I haven`t been at any place with really terrifying -- it could have ended up much worse, you know.
BEHAR: But you`ve been all over the world.
BOURDAIN: Yes.
BEHAR: ... with different foods. What`s the most disgusting thing you`ve ever eaten?
BOURDAIN: I put it delicately, the nether regions of a warthog. I wouldn`t recommend it.
BEHAR: The nether regions of a warthog?
BOURDAIN: It was a -- the business end. It was a tribal situation.
BEHAR: I see.
BOURDAIN: I tried to eat what`s offered, I tried to be a good guest. A lot of people take their food very seriously. They`re very proud of it.
BEHAR: Yes.
BOURDAIN: They`re offering very little and being generous. I think it`s important to be an ambassador in a sense ...
BEHAR: Did you ever get sick?
BOURDAIN: Twice in nine years, but pretty sick.
BEHAR: But let me ask you, do the genitals of a warthog taste like chicken?
BOURDAIN: I wish it was the genitals. Let`s not be -- It was worse than that.
BEHAR: Not even the genitals.
BOURDAIN: It was worse than that.
BEHAR: Ew, OK, let`s not go there. So, first of all, the first dish, one of these dishes is from Japan.
BOURDAIN: Two. We have ...
BEHAR: Right.
BOURDAIN: This is Miso Ramen. Which is a really interesting take on traditional ramen noodles.
BEHAR: Yes.
BOURDAIN: And some example kind of natural fusion over time. Unlike other parts of Japan, there`s actually butter in this. They put butter.
BEHAR: Really?
BOURDAIN: And usually ...
BEHAR: That doesn`t sound like the Japanese.
BOURDAIN: And corn.
BEHAR: Really?
BOURDAIN: So, it`s kind of the history of western migration, a little bit of World War II, really delicious and unusual for Japan.
BEHAR: So, is this Japanese, too?
BOURDAIN: Very, much more traditional, a takeout version of terrashi, which is essentially sashimi over rice, rather than, you know, wrapped up sushi.
BEHAR: Now, what about the fact that they, you know, they have radiation in Japan right now? Can we eat the fish that`s in the ocean?
BOURDAIN: So far my friend Eric at Le Bernardin who`s been actually testing every piece of fish with a Geiger counter relentlessly for weeks now.
BEHAR: He is in New York, you mean?
BOURDAIN: His -- every piece of fish he can, and it`s coming up fine and from all reports there is ...
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Really? And what`s this? Because I only have a minute left. I`m sorry. But what is this?
BOURDAIN: That`s a soy ginger pudding from Kau (ph), China. Very popular there, really good. They ...
BEHAR: This is delicious.
BOURDAIN: ... eat (inaudible) that stuff, yeah.
BEHAR: Mmm, that`s good.
BOURDAIN: I`m not a big soy fan but I like this.
BEHAR: If you hadn`t told me it was soy, I wouldn`t know.
BOURDAIN: Yes.
BEHAR: And this is what? This is a nice little dessert cake.
BOURDAIN: That`s another sort of Chinese/Portuguese mutation, it`s a lemony -- a lemon custard, very traditional to Portugal, but seen through the eyes of the Chinese (ph).
BEHAR: Very nice. And these are beef patties from Haiti?
BOURDAIN: Haiti. They`re really good. They`re meat patties.
BEHAR: Like an empanada (ph). Kind of, right?
BOURDAIN: You know, meat, veg, chicken, whatever they have at hand.
(CROSSTALK)
BOURDAIN: Definitely, this is good stuff.
BEHAR: You can check out "Anthony Bourdain, No Reservations" Mondays at 9 p.m. on the Travel Channel. And the paperback version of "Medium Raw" is coming out in May. Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody. Bon appetite.
END
