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Nancy Grace
Maine Mother Missing in NH, Baby Still in Car
Aired April 25, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live. The parking lot of a high-end ski resort, 6:30 AM, police race to the scene to find a Nissan Sentra of 20-year-old Krista Dittmeyer, engine running, driver door wide open, hazards flashing, lights on. But looking inside, police see the car`s not empty. Krista`s 14-month-old baby girl in the back seat alone, still strapped in a toddler car seat. Mommy gone, gone without a trace.
Bombshell tonight. The night before, Krista calls her mom and dad, everything`s fine. Just a few hours later and 60 miles away, her car and baby abandoned in a resort parking lot. Police convinced she`s forced out of the car and forced to leave her baby behind. In the last hours, police seize a mystery vehicle. Is it linked to the single mom`s disappearance? There`s no way this mom would ever leave her baby, Alia (ph), behind. Tonight, where is 20-year-old Krista?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At 6:30 in the morning, a citizen saw -- was pulling into the area of the Cranmore Fitness Center and saw a vehicle with its flashers on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The beautiful 20-year-old mom vanishes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They thought this was unusual, so they pulled in behind the vehicle to see if the person in the car needed any assistance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say Krista Dittmeyer is a victim of a crime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they approached the car, they found that it was unoccupied. It was running. The driver`s door was slightly ajar, and there was a baby in the back seat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would never, ever, ever leave her in a car by herself. Ever.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) show us a sign that everything is OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But the fear is that everything is not OK. Police also say they do have two signed search warrants.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t have any information that leads us to believe that she is not alive, and we`re going to continue to investigate it as if we can reunite her with her family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, live, Miami suburbs. A frantic 911 call, a young mom gunned down with a 9-millimeter Glock semi in her own home. The shooter, her 2-year-old baby boy. According to Daddy, that is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: OK. Who shot her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was taking the gun from him, trying to get it from him (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: From whom? From whom? From whom?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From my son! From my son!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s little. (INAUDIBLE) everybody`s saying that he couldn`t do it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have the gun. The little boy have the gun. He take it up off of the ground. I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just seems almost impossible.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Impossible, this neighbor says, that the small 2-and-a-half-year-old boy seen in this dark, grainy video is the one responsible for picking up a Glock and shooting his own mother dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, God! She on the floor! I can`t believe this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-three-year-old Julia Bennett (ph) was shot dead in her Miramar apartment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh! She was on the ground and he (INAUDIBLE) He squeeze it and it catch his mom!
911 OPERATOR: OK, so she`s been shot?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I was trying to take it from him, and it go off and (INAUDIBLE) he shot his mom!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight -- 6:30 AM police race to a high-end ski resort to find the Nissan Sentra of 20-year-old Krista Dittmeyer, engine running, driver door wide open, hazards flashing. But looking inside, the car`s not empty. Krista`s 14-month-old baby girl in the back seat, left alone, still strapped in a toddler car seat. Mommy is gone, gone without a trace. Police convinced tonight Mommy is forced out of the car and forced to leave her baby behind.
We are taking your calls live. Let`s go straight out to the scene, Erik Eisele joining us from "The Conway Daily Sun" there in New Hampshire. Erik, what do we know?
ERIK EISELE, "CONWAY DAILY SUN": At this point, we know that the police have impounded two vehicles. They`re searching some vehicles. They are looking for leads. But they don`t know much. They haven`t released a whole lot of information.
GRACE: Out to Joe Gomez, reporter with Newsradio KTRH. The ski resort where her car was found abandoned -- take a look at Krista Dittmeyer -- was about 60 miles east of her home. But it`s my understanding, Joe Gomez, that she was on the phone with her mom and dad or her mom just the evening before.
JOE GOMEZ, NEWSRADIO KTRH: That`s right, Nancy. She was speaking on a phone presumably with her mother the evening before. Everything was OK. Everybody said that Krista didn`t seem distraught or anything like that. The very next day, early Saturday morning, police find her abandoned vehicle with the flashers on in the parking lot of a ski resort. They thought it was abandoned anyway. But when they peered into the car, they found her 14-month-old beautiful baby girl strapped in the car seat in the back and Mommy is nowhere to be found!
Right now, police are investigating this as a criminal act. They haven`t labeled it as a kidnapping yet, Nancy, but Krista`s family thinks that`s what happened. And her sister believes that Krista must have made some sort of deal with her abductor to take her and leave her baby -- leave her baby alone, Nancy!
GRACE: Joining me right now is a special guest, Lieutenant Chris Perley joining us from the local police department there in Conway, New Hampshire. Lieutenant, thank you for being with us. A lot of questions.
LT. CHRIS PERLEY, CONWAY POLICE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: From everything that the family and friends say, this mother would never have left her baby behind. So why has it not been labeled foul play?
PERLEY: Well, first of all, I want to emphasize that the Conway Police Department, during the course of this investigation, in cooperation with the New Hampshire State Police, have not mentioned or commented that force was used to take her from the scene. And I emphasized in the press conference earlier that we are still looking into whether she was there or just the vehicle was there.
GRACE: Ah!
PERLEY: So I want to clarify...
GRACE: I understand. I understand.
PERLEY: I want to clarify a point that`s been attributed to me, is we have not said nor are we confirming that force was used against her. We are looking at all aspects of the case. We have not labeled it a specific crime because to do that, we would have to have evidence that points to a specific act. But we are clear and have been clear since about an hour or so afterwards that we are investigating this as a crime because nothing suggests that Krista Dittmeyer would have voluntarily absented herself from the vehicle or her child.
GRACE: You know, Lieutenant, you just cleared up a lot of questions I had in my mind. With me is Lieutenant Chris Perley from the Conway Police Department. Everyone, take a look at this baby girl. Missing now, her 20- year-old single mom, hard-working waitress taking care of her baby. Friends and family insist she would have never left her baby alone in this car. It was 60 miles away from their home, parked at an upscale ski resort parking lot.
Back to Lieutenant Chris Perley. Lieutenant, I know it`s a ski resort. I know there`s an exercise gym of some sort close by. Was there any surveillance video at all, Lieutenant?
PERLEY: I can`t comment on the specific aspects of the investigation. And I know I say that probably painfully way too many times for the press, but to comment on any specific element of the investigation could impede the veracity of witnesses that come forward and the integrity of the investigation. So I don`t want to comment on that specifically.
I can tell you that at the time that the vehicle was found, the ski mountain had closed for the season. There is only one other commercial property in the area, and that is the fitness center, which was not open yet for business. And it is somewhat of a remote area, but I wouldn`t say it`s remote in the sense that it`s far, far away from residential or commercial property. But it is quiet there this time of year.
GRACE: Lieutenant Perley, I understand the car was still running?
PERLEY: That`s correct. At 6:30 in the morning, a passerby saw the flashers on on the vehicle, pulled in presumably just to check on the occupant, see if they needed some help, approached and found the vehicle running, the lights on, the hazard lights on, and an infant child in the back seat and no adult either in the vehicle or in the immediate vicinity where she could see.
GRACE: OK.
PERLEY: And that motivated the caller to call.
GRACE: Let me ask you a couple of more questions. So the engine is running. The flashers are on. The door is open. Is the dome light still on in the car?
PERLEY: Well, the dome light`s still on because the door is open. So yes, that was...
GRACE: Right. I understand that.
PERLEY: ... the condition of the car.
GRACE: I was thinking, Lieutenant, about how long the battery would have allowed the dome light to stay on. And we have called car specialists who have told us that with the engine running -- even with the engine running, it would only stay on for about four hours, even if it had started off with the engine running. So what -- another thing that`s confusing me, Lieutenant Perley, is I snow she spoke to her mom, or her parents, the night before presumably from inside of her home. But for the car to be abandoned at 6:30 in the morning, she would have had to have leave -- be forced out of the home or have left the home during the night or super- early the next morning.
PERLEY: Well, the timeline is very important, and again, it`s a component of the investigation that is material to when the vehicle was there and helps us to establish, if witnesses come forward, whether or not they could have actually seen something that they`re going to represent. So I can`t speak specifically about when the car -- or if we`ve pinned down the time when the car arrived there. However...
GRACE: Is it true, Lieutenant, that she did speak to her mother the night before?
PERLEY: That is the report from her mother, that she spoke to her...
GRACE: Around 10:30.
PERLEY: Well, and when you say the night before, it`s not a day before. We`re talking about the evening of the 22nd into the morning of the 23rd. So...
GRACE: Can I ask you something?
PERLEY: ... presumably...
GRACE: Was it about 10:30 PM? That`s what I`m trying to find out.
PERLEY: Yes, that`s correct, on Friday evening.
GRACE: At 10:30 PM Friday evening, she talks to her mother on the phone. Do we know that she was inside of her house?
PERLEY: I don`t know that. She`s represented that that`s where she said she was.
GRACE: So she was calling from her cell phone?
PERLEY: Yes.
GRACE: And has it been pinged?
PERLEY: Well, we are -- we have executed a search warrant on her phone and we have received records from the phone carrier, and we are forensically analyzing those records.
GRACE: OK, so I think that means you`re trying to get the ping right now.
PERLEY: Yes, we`re actively investigating the...
GRACE: OK.
PERLEY: ... both the phone calls that she received, made, and where the locations were.
GRACE: Lieutenant, did she have landline in the home?
PERLEY: I have no idea.
GRACE: Well, I find that very unusual. Of course, I guess people do use your cell phone in the home when you`ve got a landline. Everyone, we are talking about this 20-year-old single mom, a waitress, her car found abandoned still running, the flashers on, at an upscale ski resort. But upon closer inspection, police find the car is not empty. Her toddler girl left behind, strapped inside of the toddler seat. Family and friends say no way would she leave her baby behind. Was Krista Dittmeyer forced out of her car and forced to leave her baby behind?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It doesn`t feel real. It feels like it`s -- I don`t know. I just am, like, waiting for her to show up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Missing endangered person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her Nissan Sentra found in the parking lot of a ski resort left running.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And her infant daughter was sitting in the back seat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The toddler was discovered alone in the back seat of her mother`s car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would never, ever leave the baby by herself voluntarily.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her car was found by a passerby who noticed the door open, hazard lights flashing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve seized two vehicles, one of them being the vehicle of Krista Dittmeyer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They believe Dittmeyer was forced from the vehicle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We knew instantly that Krista did not leave that car voluntarily.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The other one being a vehicle we seized in the town of North Conway or the village of North Conway. I`m not able to disclose the owner of the vehicle or its relationship to the investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The car had been in the parking lot for several hours before it was found.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Straight out to Elizabeth in Kentucky. Hi, Elizabeth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I was -- I can get on my computer and I can get on one of those satellites and I can look right at my house. I can tell every single car that`s in the driveway. I can tell -- you know, see the roof of my house. How come they can`t take and when someone goes missing, go back to that time that they went missing, take a satellite shot down (ph) at the house?
GRACE: Are you talking about Google Maps?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. No. I don`t remember what it was, but the satellite, you know, from space.
GRACE: Yes. OK. Let`s go to Lieutenant Perley about that. There is a way to do that, I believe, Lieutenant Perley? What do you know about that, if anything?
PERLEY: Well, first of all, I want to assure everybody that every resource available to the Conway Police Department has been mobilized to reunite Krista Dittmeyer with her family. That includes the resources of the New Hampshire State Police, as well as the state investigative forensic unit.
Now, we have done aerial surveillance of the area to include photography. We did a ground search. I think what this caller is talking about is something akin to Google Map or Google Earth. I want everybody to bear in mind the bulk of the time that we`re talking about is evening hours. So I think a satellite, if it was positioned over that area, would show darkness and -- but we certainly haven`t ruled anything out. So we are looking at every aspect of the case...
GRACE: I agree with you, Lieutenant.
PERLEY: ... and accessing every resource.
GRACE: Open for all takers, any idea. You know what? You`re very wise, Lieutenant, because I`ve seen a lot of police officers, you know, close down -- We`ve tried everything. But maybe there`s something else. Maybe, just maybe -- you know, Lieutenant Perley, you may have another idea -- it seems to me that there are two or more possible crime scenes, one obviously at the scene of the car, but back at her home, were there any signs of forced entry? Was anything disturbed?
PERLEY: Well, nothing has been reported to us to that effect. She has roommates in the Portland area.
GRACE: Right.
PERLEY: So it`s not like she lived alone with a small child.
GRACE: Right.
PERLEY: We have resourced the Portland Police Department, as well as...
GRACE: So does that mean, Lieutenant, that there was no forced entry and nothing was disturbed?
PERLEY: That is correct.
GRACE: Now, did the roommates know what time she left?
PERLEY: We`ve been in contact with them. They have provided statements to us. But again, those are intimate details of the investigation, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. So you know...
PERLEY: As much as I would like to share them with the world, we can`t.
GRACE: Fine. I`m just asking, do they know when she left? I`m not asking to you to tell me. I just want to know, do they or do they not know what time she left?
PERLEY: Yes.
GRACE: They do know? Great. That`s giving you a much, much better timeline. Lieutenant Perley, was anything left behind in her car or at her home, such as her wallet, her pocketbook or her cell phone?
PERLEY: Well, we have searched the vehicle and seized evidence inside that belongs to her. And of course, that property is not at her home. So I don`t know what property you`re referring to in her home.
GRACE: Well, pocketbook, wallet, cell phone, driver`s license, identification. All that was in the car?
PERLEY: Well, like I said, I can`t be that specific because those would be considered intimate details of the investigation. But we have seized property and we`re analyzing it forensically.
GRACE: We are talking your calls. Take a look at the car of Krista Dittmeyer, just 20 years old, a single mom. When cops get closer, they find the car`s not empty. Inside is her toddler girl, just 14 months old. Tonight, where is Krista?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are draining a retention pond up in the Cranmore area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If anyone at all remembers seeing her, anywhere at all, please let us know any details!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty-year-old mom Krista Dittmeyer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Missing endangered person.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A devoted mom whose life revolved around her baby girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please let us know you`re safe. We need you. Your daughter needs you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fourteen-month-old Alia Dittmeyer, her mother nowhere to be found.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alia in the back seat of the car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dittmeyer`s loved ones never believe she would choose to leave her daughter alone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are a number of crimes that could be involved in the disappearance of an adult. Kidnapping, of course, would be one of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A 20-year-old single mom`s car abandoned, flashing lights on, car still running, doors open, 14-month-old baby girl left behind, the car found in an empty parking lot outside an upscale ski resort. Take a look at the vehicle found.
We are taking your calls. Out to Francine in North Carolina. Hi, Francine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love your show. I have a couple of questions.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The first one in, have the victim had any recent issues with either the child`s father, boyfriend or friends?
GRACE: Good question. Hold on. Hold on. Let`s go to that question first. Joe Gomez, KTRH, what do you know?
GOMEZ: Oh, Nancy, right now, investigators aren`t being too forthcoming with any information as to if she had any, you know, problems with, let`s say, a boyfriend or the baby`s father. We do know that the baby`s father was not in the area where Krista presumably went missing, Nancy, so we can probably rule that one out.
GRACE: To Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author of "The Profiler." Weigh in, Pat.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, first of all, Nancy, I just want to say the lieutenant sounds like his department`s really doing a great job on this case. The other thing I`m seeing here is there`s -- she seemed to have gone of her own volition to that particular location -- I mean, at least to New Hampshire to see some people. I don`t see...
GRACE: At 6:30 in the morning?
BROWN: Well, I don`t see this as a stranger crime. I think she went there for some reason. But the reason her car is up there at that ski resort, that puzzles me. It seems like to me it might have been dumped because those hazard lights -- there`s no reason to put your hazard lights on in a parking lot unless you`re trying to get somebody to save the baby. But I wonder why she would be up there. So I`m kind of curious whether something happened to her and somebody drove that car up there, left the hazard lights on because they just didn`t know what to do with the baby and didn`t want to kill her.
GRACE: Well, you know, Pat Brown, Lieutenant Perley can`t give out a lot of details, but I think that I`ve been able to interpret that in the car is her pocketbook, her cell phone, and her driver`s license and ID. That sounds like she was in the car.
Unleash the lawyers, Gloria Allred, Anne Bremner and Ron Liebman (ph). Gloria, weigh in.
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Yes, I`m wondering, Nancy, if there are security cameras in that parking lot that might help the police. That would certainly be valuable if they were on. It might not be because the ski resort was closed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A beautiful 20-year-old mom vanishes. Her Nissan Sentra found in the parking lot of a ski resort.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Dittmeyer`s family says she does have friends in the are abut police aren`t saying who she was coming to visit.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Let`s see a shot of the missing person`s flyer, Liz.
Krista Dittmeyer, age 20, gone, left behind her 14-month-old baby girl strapped in her car seat parked in a remote ski area.
The parking lot empty, no surveillance video that we know of. We are taking your calls. But to Lieutenant Chris Perley, special guest joining us from Conway Police Department.
Lieutenant, I understand a second car has been seized in addition to her black Nissan. A second car has been seized by police. What kind of car and where?
LT. CHRIS PERLEY, CONWAY POLICE DEPARTMENT: The car was seized North Conway the evening of the 23rd. I can`t discuss the parameters or the description of the vehicle.
I want to correct something, Nancy. It`s a black Nissan Sentra, not a white Nissan.
GRACE: Did someone say white? I just said black.
PERLEY: I thought I heard --
GRACE: No.
PERLEY: Yes. It is black. I thought that --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: It is black. We`re showing black and we`re -- you may not be able to see our monitor but we are actually showing a black Nissan Sentra as you`re speaking.
Go ahead.
PERLEY: Yes. So I can`t discuss the particularities about the vehicle that was seized. We did execute a search warrant both on the Dittmeyer vehicle and the second vehicle. And again we followed the evidence where it takes us. We collect and gather evidence both to include suspects and activities and also to exclude.
GRACE: That`s good to know. About the vehicle that was seized, I assume that search warrant and return, if any, is going to be filed as they normally are. So when even something that`s going to be filed, can you tell us what kind of car it was and why it was seized?
PERLEY: No, we`ve -- we as a preliminary matter filed a motion to seal all affidavits and documents associated with this ongoing investigation.
GRACE: OK. Back to Francine in North Carolina. What was the second part of your question, dear?
FRANCINE, CALLER FROM NORTH CAROLINA: OK. Nancy, I would like to say I really get disgusted with the way people commit these crimes and, you know, just go about where they are like. But is the baby OK and why was she out at that time in the morning?
GRACE: Well, you know, Francine, I`m not sure that she was voluntarily out at that time in the morning.
Joe Gomez, KTRH, when was she due at work? For all I know, she had the breakfast shift. When was she due at work?
JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER, KTRH RADIO: That`s still unclear, Nancy. We do know that she worked as a waitress. You know this is a woman who been working very hard to support her baby girl --
GRACE: Joe, Joe, Joe --
GOMEZ: A 14-month-old baby girl.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you. But the question is, when was she due at work? Do you know?
GOMEZ: That`s still unclear, Nancy.
GRACE: So the answer would be no. OK. Let me ask Lieutenant Perley.
Lieutenant, when was she due at work?
PERLEY: I can`t discuss that kind of matter because it`s an intimate detail of the investigation.
I do want to point out, Nancy, because I know you`re running out of time, the Dittmeyer family has offered a reward of $3,000 for any information that leads to the whereabouts and location of Krista. That came out -- that information came out after we held a press conference and I think it`s very important the public knows.
GRACE: That is important.
PERLEY: That there is money on the table.
GRACE: What`s the tip line?
PERLEY: To help resolve this matter.
GRACE: Lieutenant, tip line. It`s at 603-356-5715?
PERLEY: That is correct. We also have an additional toll free line, it`s 888-GIVE-A-TIP which turns out to be, you know, 888-448-2847.
GRACE: 2847.
PERLEY: Either line -- either line will ring to us. We`re manning phones. We`ve added additional people to take down information, feed it to the investigators.
GRACE: Got it.
PERLEY: And --
GRACE: In the few remaining moments I have, back to the lawyers, Anne Bremner, Ron Liebman, Gloria Allred.
Anne Bremner, your thoughts about this. Obviously her pocketbook, cell phone, et cetera, was in the car. He said her personal items were seized from the car.
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, it says abduction. And key areas by definition are remote, Nancy, as we know. And the fact of the matter is somebody had a conscience by putting the flashers on so someone would find the baby.
But I want to also say your lieutenant is wonderful in terms of what they`re doing in this investigation. And with another car involved in this, you know, hopefully they`ll be able to find her alive, and at least the baby is alive.
GRACE: Ron Liebman, what do you make of the fact that she called the mom, her mother at 10:30 that night. She was on the phone, everything was fine.
RON LIEBMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think at that point, everything probably was fine. It sounds to me like this was a rendezvous. This woman lives in Portland, Maine. The car is discovered in New Hampshire, in a parking lot. There`s another car involved.
And I think the police are on this. And once they start getting answers to those question, who was she meeting? Why was she meeting? What was in the car? Once those questions are answered, I think some of this mystery will be unraveled.
GRACE: To Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist -- put her up. I don`t see her. I know she`s there. She`s somewhere inside (INAUDIBLE).
Dr. Saunders, are you with me?
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I am.
GRACE: Dr. Saunders, no offense to any of the men on our panel tonight, but why is it when a woman goes missing they all say, it was a rendezvous, she was meeting somebody?
Come on. She`s got a baby in the car seat at 6:30 in the morning. It was not a rendezvous going down at 6:30 in the morning with your baby in the backseat. That`s not the way this went down, Patricia.
SAUNDERS: No, I don`t think it was the way it went down either. I think that she got some kind of emergency, threatening call, she took the baby, perhaps because it was someone she knew.
GRACE: Put Saunders up.
But, Pat, what about her getting abducted right there in her driveway? Or we also know -- here`s another tidbit. We have been told that she was in the Conway area earlier that day. I assume what they mean by that is the day before. Did somebody see her there and follow her home?
SAUNDERS: Yes. In that case, it might have been a stranger abduction and not someone she knew. But there was no way she was going to leave that child I think that the hazard lights may not have been on to warn people that there was a baby there but just to alert the other car that had arrived, another option.
GRACE: To Steve Kardian, former cop, self-defense expert, lead instructor, Defend University.
What`s your theory, Steve?
STEVE KARDIAN, FMR. POLICE DETECTIVE, SELF-DEFENSE EXPERT, LEAD INSTRUCTOR AT DEFEND UNIVERSITY: It appears by all matters and intents that this was a stranger abduction. We see the maternal instincts --
GRACE: But Steve, Steve, Steve, usually this is something far more close to home.
KARDIAN: Yes.
GRACE: Somebody you know. Somebody you`re related to. We think the baby`s dad is out of the picture. He`s not really -- he`s not a suspect at this time. He was not in the area. That`s where you normally start. It`s not him.
KARDIAN: No. And law enforcement is going to treat it like a crime. Like a kidnapping. Because it`s easier to go from a kidnapping to a missing person case than it is to go from a missing person`s case to a kidnapping. So they`re going to investigate it as it -- go ahead.
GRACE: To Sheeba in Illinois. Hi, Sheeba. What`s your question, dear?
SHEEBA, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi. Hi, Nancy. She wasn`t a member of this club, was she?
GRACE: Good question.
SHEEBA: And could she have had a significant other that she was meeting there?
GRACE: At 6:30 in the morning, Sheeba?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Sheba, wait, wait. Think it through. Who is having a rendezvous at 6:30 in the morning with the baby in the backseat?
SHEEBA: Well, not me, honey.
GRACE: Yes. Me either. I`d have to have two in the backseat. Plus my husband following behind in the minivan. Because that`s not going to happen.
OK, let me get back to the bottom of that question about member of the club.
To Lieutenant Perley, Conway Police Department, why would anyone be skiing at that time? They wouldn`t be, number one.
PERLEY: Well, certainly nobody would be because the ski mountain had closed for the season.
GRACE: Yes. No snow.
PERLEY: And the fitness center was not open. Whether or not she was a member of the club, still does not explain her disappearance and also doesn`t explain why she would be there before it was opened.
GRACE: You know --
(CROSSTALK)
PERLEY: But we don`t have any information --
GRACE: Question about the club.
PERLEY: -- that she`s a member of that club.
GRACE: Question about the club. Was it one of those clubs that has the particular hours or did it stay opened 24/7 and you use a key card to get in and out?
PERLEY: No, that`s a great question. This is a large facility that has a number of tennis courts and fitness equipment. It is opened on specific hours and owned by the mountain and manned by its staff. So you just can`t go out in there and work out like some --
GRACE: Lieutenant, what about the temperature of the car? Inside the car the door was opened. Had it gotten cold in there? Is there anything to suggest --
PERLEY: Well, the vehicle is --
GRACE: -- the car had been there for a long time?
PERLEY: The vehicle was running so fortunately for the child, the interior of the vehicle was comfortable enough for the infant.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Sheryl in Minnesota. Hi, Sheryl.
SHERYL, CALLER FROM MINNESOTA: Hi, Nancy. I have a quick question and a possible theory. First off, the car that they seized, was there any body damage on that vehicle? Because when I`m observing the picture of her vehicle, I noticed body damage --
GRACE: OK. Let`s find out very quickly.
Lieutenant Perley, is there damage to the car?
PERLEY: Again, you know, and I hate to keep saying it, but we couldn`t comment on a specific piece of evidence like that.
GRACE: Yes. Yes. I see it, too . I couldn`t hear whether Lieutenant Perley said yes or no.
Did he say yes or no, Liz? No damage to the car? But I see that it is crunched up in the front.
What`s your theory, Sheryl?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who abducted this beautiful mother? Police need your help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t imagine what the explanation is, but we certainly hope there is one. And we want her home.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: That small 2 1/2-year-old boy seen in this dark grainy video.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Family members say this boy says only a few words and is not able to tell them what really happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The little boy have the, and he pick it up off the ground. I don`t know --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: .99 millimeter semi automatic pistol.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Breathe, calm down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God. She on the floor. I can`t believe this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That child being present in the home at which time a loaded firearm was fired.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: His son pulled the trigger.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: OK. Who shot her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was taking the gun from him. I was trying to get it from him.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: From who? From who? From who?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From my son. From my son. He`s right here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that`s what really killed the mother.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Shooting his own mother dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We saw it on television.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean we were all devastated. We could not believe it.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Police race to the scene to find a young mom dead in her own home, gunned down. Who was the shooter? Her 2- year-old toddler, according to daddy.
Straight out to Danielle Alvarez, news reporter, Sunsentinel.com.
Danielle, explain to me how this woman was shot with a Glock 9 millimeter semi -- those things are not lightweight -- by a 2-year-old child.
DANIELLE ALVAREZ, BREAKING NEWS REPORTER, SUNSENTINEL.COM: Well, police have told us that on Wednesday, April 20th, Julia Bennett, she was 33, was found fatally shot inside her home and investigators said that the only two individuals that were inside the apartment were her 2 1/2-year-old toddler and his father.
And around that time the toddler`s father called 911 and told the dispatcher that his toddler somehow managed to get ahold of his 9 millimeter semiautomatic gun, a Glock, and shoot the mother.
And what`s interesting about this is that police were in the area at the time of the incident in a completely unrelated case. They were looking for a missing child who was later found. So when they got the call, they were able to immediately respond and found her dead inside the apartment.
GRACE: OK. I don`t understand what you`re trying to tell me about a missing child, Danielle. Repeat.
ALVAREZ: That was a completely unrelated incident, but what I was explaining was that police officers were already in the area around the apartment complex when the incident occurred. So when they got the call, they were able to respond immediately. And that`s when they found her dead inside the apartment.
GRACE: I find it almost impossible for a 2-year-old to gun down anyone with a Glock semi.
To David Lohr, senior crime reporter, with "The Huffington Post."
David, thank you for being with us. Where was the mom shot? What part of her body?
DAVID LOHR, SENIOR CRIME REPORTER, THE HUFFINGTON POST: She was shot in the lower back, Nancy. And the 911 call that the father of the child, he said that he had left the gun out where the child could pick it up. He saw that the child --
GRACE: Why?
LOHR: -- had picked up the handgun, he went over there and tried to take it from him and it was during that tug of war or what have you that the gun discharged and shot her.
GRACE: To Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health at Johns Hopkins.
To Marty, thank you for being with us. Police say the gunshot wound was in the back or upper torso. But on the 911 call, the father says in the back on the arm. What --
DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Yes, clearly the stories don`t match. At the back of the arm it would be very hard to have a fatal injury. It would be to go through the major blood vessel that supplies the arm. The back in the torso, it`s much more likely to be more fatal, of course. But the stories don`t exactly match up right now.
GRACE: No, they don`t. Back to Steve Kardian, former police detective, self-defense expert, lead instructor at Defend University, joining us out of New York.
Steve, so the trajectory path of the bullet is going to be very, very important. In other words, if the child is shooting standing, the trajectory path should be going up. I`d be very interested in the trajectory path.
And do you have a demonstration for us with a facsimile?
KARDIAN: Yes, I do, Nancy. Regarding the trajectory, that`s going to be the forensics to figure that out. And it`s going to tell a lot on whether or not that child shot that gun or -- and it was gone from -- on a 45-degree angle up.
GRACE: Right.
KARDIAN: Or whether or not the father did it.
GRACE: Let`s see the gun.
KARDIAN: Here it is. This is a -- this is a 9 millimeter Glock semiautomatic pistol. It is safe. There is no bullets, there is no magazine in it. And I`m going to show typically what we see a child of that age does not have the dexterity, does not have the strength nor do they have the leverage to be able to complete pulling this trigger, which - - this gun weighs 23 ounces empty, about 30 ounces full with a magazine, and it -- the civilian model takes six pounds of pressure to squeeze off this trigger.
GRACE: Hold on. Hold on. Let`s break that down, 30 ounces is like two soda bottles. Two plastic soda bottles.
KARDIAN: Yes. It`s very light. It`s very light. And typically what we see -- I`m going to chamber this --
GRACE: I don`t think that`s light to a 2-year-old.
KARDIAN: It`s relatively -- it`s light enough for a 2-year-old to pick it up. Not light enough for -- or easy enough for the 2-year-old to fire the weapon.
GRACE: Yes. What`s the pull on a Glock?
KARDIAN: The pull on -- the civilian model is six pounds. On law enforcement, it`s eight to 12. I`m going to chamber this and I`m going to show you typically what happens is that the child can`t get the leverage to pull the trigger. What they do -- I`m going to angle this off -- is they hold the gun in this manner and they use their two thumbs to fire it.
Using a prop, I`ll show how it actually mimics that they are actually facing the barrel with their thumbs they create the leverage. They have now the means and the power with these two thumbs to pull it and that`s where we see many children shooting themselves with a particular weapon in that manner.
GRACE: Now how were the -- what would he -- what would the toddler have had to do to shoot them off? Let me see him in full, please, Liz.
KARDIAN: In order for the mom to shoot the child, the child would have had to control the gun in this manner and use one or more fingers. But you saw the size of that child. It doesn`t fit. It doesn`t jive and I don`t buy it.
GRACE: And also, the bullet would have to be in position.
KARDIAN: The bullet would have to be in the chamber. This particular gun has -- this is a civilian model. It`s six pounds of pressure to ignite this trigger.
GRACE: So you need a -- it`s got a six-pound pull on it.
OK. We are taking your calls. My next question is this.
Pat Brown, you`re familiar with the case. Right?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "THE PROFILER": Yes.
GRACE: So who do you think the dad`s second call was to? His wife?
BROWN: I have no idea who that second call went to. You tell me.
GRACE: Well, back to David Lohr. Isn`t it true that the father of the baby is married to somebody else?
LOHR: Yes, that`s correct, Nancy. And his wife didn`t find out --
GRACE: Whoa, wait a minute.
LOHR: David Lohr, hold on a minute. You`re acting like, oh, yes, and the paint was green on the walls.
He`s married to somebody else. All right?
LOHR: Yes.
GRACE: And this is his living girlfriend and his baby.
LOHR: That`s correct, Nancy. And his wife had no idea that the baby existed or that the other woman existed. And this is a relationship --
GRACE: Well, I guess she knows now, David Lohr. What do you think?
LOHR: Yes, I would say she knows now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: I just don`t think you can minimize the fact that the baby daddy is there at the home, the mom, who somehow gets shot in the back with a .9 semi Glock and blames the 2-year-old baby boy. And after all this goes public, like now, is the first time his wife finds out about the victim and the baby.
We`re taking your calls. To Terri in Ohio. Hi, Terri.
TERRI, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi, Nancy. I love you so much. You are an angel.
GRACE: Thank you. I`m going to play that back to my twins when they turn 16, OK? They`re already complicated enough. But they`re going to need that reinforcement by then.
What`s your question, love?
TERRI: I have a comment and a short question.
GRACE: OK.
TERRI: I don`t believe that -- I don`t believe that 2-year-old fired that gun, but I want to know, have they tested him for residue?
GRACE: Good question. What about it? Do we know, David Lohr? Yes, no, was -- did he have a gunshot residue test on his hands? The baby?
LOHR: We know -- we know on that baby they did do a gunshot residue test standard swab.
GRACE: They did. Was it positive or negative?
LOHR: The authorities won`t comment.
GRACE: Back to the lawyers. Allred, Bremner, Liebman.
Anne Bremner, I think the father should be charged for leaving a loaded gun out.
BREMNER: Well, I mean, but that`s going to be a lot lesser than being an accessory to murder as we know, Nancy. And right now what we do know is what we don`t know. And there`s very little coming out of that scene.
GRACE: OK. That was crazy even for you, Bremner.
BREMNER: Would basically --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What we do know is what we don`t know. Actually, it does make sense.
Gloria Allred, why can`t he be charged as an accessory?
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ATTORNEY, CHILD ADVOCATE: Well, it may be that what he`s going to be charged with is possibly criminal negligence. Again, it depends on what they find. And also the question is, did he have any acts of prior violence or threatening the now deceased mom? That`s going to be important.
GRACE: And Ron Liebman, yes, no, Ron Liebman. Is there any way to charge the father at this juncture for leaving the gun out loaded?
LIEBMAN: Yes. That`s something he can be charged with, but, you know, this is a homicide and the question is, can he be charged with that?
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Amanda Pinson, 21, St. Louis, Missouri, killed Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, two Milton Awards for Military Intelligence. First female cryptologist in U.S. history killed in action.
Loves sports, running, charity work, helped create environmental leadership program in her hometown. Leaves behind parents Tony and Christina, stepmother, Regina, brother, Brian.
Amanda Pinson, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
