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Nancy Grace

New Details on bin Laden Pakistan Compound

Aired May 04, 2011 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLENN BECK, HOST, "GLENN BECK": The videos you are going to see come (ph) from all over the Middle East.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): This is the car (ph) daddy blew up.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If we have Osama bin Laden in our sights, we have to act.

BECK: Unbelievable propaganda used by extremists.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The team that killed Osama bin Laden was special.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The all-star of the SEAL team.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re often portrayed as the root of all evil, or as they call us, the "great Satan."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was up there on the second and third floor where bin Laden was killed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The president does not plan to release the photos.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then they uploaded images of the dead man to compare with face recognition software.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): We want the blood of a Christian child before Passover, for the matzos.

BECK: The message of this video and all the others like it...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): You must train your children every night to go on raids in order to liberate Jerusalem and al Aqsa.

BECK: Is to incite other radicals and instill fear in the rest of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. After nearly 10 years and the most massive manhunt in world history, the mastermind who orders the September 11 attack on the U.S. takes an American bullet to the eye, Osama bin Laden dead.

Bombshell tonight. Bin Laden ready to run, packing a wad of cash and multiple phone numbers sewn into his clothes at the time he was shot, and so arrogant, so sure the U.S. would never fine him, bin Laden unarmed with no guards, relying instead on fake walls, trapdoors, a maze of halls.

Tonight, we learn bin Laden`s youngest wife, a 20-year-old girl who was a gift to bin Laden from a wealthy Yemeni family, rushes U.S. Navy SEALs to protect bin Laden. In a bizarre twist, we also learned bin Laden, the king of terror, traced to his secret compound because of a cell phone.

Straight out to Chris Lawrence, CNN Pentagon correspondent, joining us tonight from D.C. Chris, what have we learned in the last hours?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, we`ve gotten some more details on exactly what happened when those SEALs went in there, learning that Osama bin Laden was shot, as you mentioned, in the chest and in the head and learning just how many more people were in that compound. We knew about the two couriers. We knew about Osama bin Laden`s son. What we`re now learning is that there were so many women and children in that compound, some of whom who were in the room with Osama bin Laden when the SEALs burst in.

GRACE: Hold on, Chris. Let`s see the replica that we have made. Describe what happened, Chris, as the SEALs enter.

LAWRENCE: Yes, what happens, Nancy, is the SEALs run into trouble almost as soon as they`re about to land because one of the helicopters has some mechanical trouble, clipped something in the compound. So they have to scramble the almost plan right away and set down. What they were supposed to do was hover in the air, and those SEALs were to fast rope down onto the ground.

Well, that couldn`t happen. The SEALs scramble inside. They immediately start to engage these two couriers, the two men on the ground floor. Remember, at this time, Osama bin Laden and his family are on the second and third floor. They haven`t got there yet. So they`re in this firefight, engaging with these two couriers. We`re told it was a very precise operation, not much of a fair fight. But the SEALs don`t go for fair fights, they go in with aggressive, overwhelming force and...

GRACE: Whoa! Wait! Wait! Wait! Whoa! Chris Lawrence, not a fair fight? Come on! It`s the king of terror!

LAWRENCE: That`s right. They`re...

GRACE: He`s responsible for...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... not looking...

GRACE: ... the deaths of thousands of people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re not looking for a fair fight, Nancy.

GRACE: No, no! No, no! If it wasn`t a fair fight, that`s bin Laden`s fault, all right? He`s the one that stole thousands of American lives, OK? He`s the one who so arrogant, he is unarmed and there are no guards, so sure that the U.S. can`t find him!

LAWRENCE: Well, why wouldn`t he be sure, Nancy? I mean, you look at it, he`s basically sitting inside of a Pakistani military compound. I mean, the reason -- one reason why probably they didn`t react so much to the helicopters, even though these helicopters were extremely stealthy and silent -- but he lives basically right next to and among the Pakistani military. So helicopters would have been coming and going all the time. He`s been in this affluent area, this million-dollar home. I mean, why wouldn`t he be confident?

GRACE: You know what? You`re right. You`re right, Chris.

To Daniel Stone, White House correspondent with "Newsweek." Daniel, so much emerging now. Apparently, bin Laden`s camp is now saying that it didn`t go down this way at all. As a matter of fact, they claim the U.S. SEALs came in, took bin Laden hostage and then brought him before his family and executed him before their eyes, that they took hostages with them away on a helicopter.

DANIEL STONE, "NEWSWEEK": I think we expected to hear doubters from the beginning, especially in those tight al Qaeda circles. Of course they doubt it happen. Some of them even doubt that he`s dead at the moment. That`s why we heard this photo debate play out all week.

But we`ve heard this story from the White House exactly how Chris just explained it, and we`ve also heard it from several news organizations, including CNN, who have reported independently several of these facts that check out, that these SEALs checked one building and then went to the other one and methodically checked each floor, and in the final room, encountered, shot and killed bin Laden.

GRACE: And what about reports -- everybody, you are seeing new photos that we have gotten that have emerged today from the assassination of bin Laden. The entire panel is taking your calls live. Let your voice be heard.

A lot of this, to my understanding, Daniel Stone, is coming from el Arabiya. Is that true?

STONE: That`s where some of it is coming. But remember, also there are al Qaeda chapters all over the world. None of them are pleased by this news, certainly, and they`re spreading this word -- in the age of social media and social networking, a lot of this stuff is spreading very quickly. We also had an episode just a few hours ago where several fake photos of bin Laden -- the real ones have not been released by the White House -- fake ones were spread on Capitol Hill, and people were questioning them.

GRACE: Out to Nic Robertson joining us now from Abbottabad, Pakistan, CNN senior international correspondent. Nic, thank you for being with us. You are now in Pakistan. Do people still don`t believe he`s dead? And those that do believe it, what`s the response?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you might be amazed at this, Nancy, but it`s the lawyers here in this city who are putting up the biggest fuss at the moment, 400 to 500, according to the president of the bar association I interviewed today, demonstrated on the streets here, angry at the attack on this compound. And they say they don`t even believe bin Laden was in the compound, forget whether or not he was killed. They say that this is just political propaganda designed to further President Obama`s reelection chances, political propaganda designed to prop up their own politicians.

And they want a photograph before they`ll believe it. They want evidence, hard evidence that this has actually happened. It seems that these are not the people who are going to be a national terror threat to the United States, but they`re an influential group of people, even in this society, Nancy.

GRACE: Nic Robertson, question. Why do we care what a group of lawyers in Pakistan think? My concern as to what people are thinking there in Pakistan is to gauge a possible attack on the U.S. or Western allies. But for them to say, Oh, he`s not really dead -- what do we care? Let them think whatever they want to!

ROBERTSON: Sure. These are the people who are going to inform and influence opinion perhaps more among the intellectual classes than the people who generally have become the al Qaeda foot soldiers and fighters. So yes, you definitely could say that, why should one care what they think. They will get over this eventually.

The preponderance of belief here is that he`s dead. I talked to a doctor here. The doctor believes that he`s dead. The doctor believes that this is an opportunity to strengthen ties between Pakistan and the United States. They want better education. The United States funds education here. People dearly want that. They want...

GRACE: OK, I`ve lost Nic Robertson. Our satellite`s down. We`re going to go straight back to him.

Right now, to Chris Lawrence. Chris, I`m understanding that he was so arrogant, no armed guards, he was unarmed, so sure he would not be attacked or found by the U.S., but also multiple cell phones -- multiple cell phones -- had wads of cash and cell phone numbers sewn into his clothing. Explain.

LAWRENCE: That`s right, Nancy. By all -- by all accounts, I mean, when you piece this together and look at that, the euros that he had stashed sewn into his clothes, the phone numbers that he had ready to call, I mean, this was clearly a man who was ready to run on a moment`s notice if he had to.

Of course, the way things went down, he never got that chance. But again, you know, when you look at the situation and you look at how he was living, he clearly felt somewhat comfortable, but also was ready to run on a moment`s notice.

GRACE: OK, we`ve got our satellite back up with Nic Robertson. Nic, Daniel Stone, Chris Lawrence and I are just talking about the fact that he was unarmed, so arrogant that he would not be caught, so relying on Pakistan and the community around him to protect him. What else have we learned about the way he lived, other than he had wads of cash and cell phone numbers sewn into his clothing? What more did you learn, Nic, about the way he`s living -- the way he was living before his assassination?

ROBERTSON: Well, it`s very hard to get sort of firm details. We know that he was living with huge secrecy. We know that the way that they divided his compound, that one part of the compound, for religious reasons, was where the women did the work, the sort of outer compound, if you will, where they did the cooking, where they did the washing.

We`re told by some people, a local doctor who ran a clinic close by, that at 8:30 in the morning, a vehicle with blacked-out windows would go into the compound. At 8:30 at night, it would regularly come out, the same vehicle. He found that amazing because here, vehicles with blacked-out windows are illegal, that he should have been stopped. That was his impression. But a huge amount of secrecy. I mean, I think that`s what`s coming across from the local people here. They just really -- they didn`t have a clue, is the bottom line here, Nancy.

GRACE: Out to the lines. To Dawn in Washington state. Hi, Dawn. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call. Yes. I was just wondering -- I know they`re not going to be showing the photos to the public, but I was wondering if there`s any way that family members, some of the people that were lost in 9/11, are eligible to see those photos to see if it`s actually him?

GRACE: Excellent question. What about it, Daniel Stone?

STONE: Those are going to stay classified for now. So no, no one`s going to be able to see them outside of the White House staff and a very tight circle of members of Congress.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Osama bin Laden is just one person. He`s representative of networks of people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the network`s most dangerous branches, al Qaeda.

BECK: You are going to see video of Islamic extremists that you have probably never seen before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): She`s a shadow of the tyrant, the antichrist.

BECK: Video that personifies hate and rage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It took 40 minutes in and out of the compound. And with a shot to the chest and one the head, the SEALs killed Osama bin Laden.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Live by the sword, die by the sword.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Osama bin Laden does not represent Islam.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was a coward. Osama bin Laden was a coward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls tonight. We learn about a labyrinth built within Osama bin Laden`s compound. His compound was built for deception, according to the Navy SEALs that assassinated him -- trap doors, fake walls, misleading hallways.

Back out to Nic Robertson, joining us from Abbottabad, Pakistan. What did we learn about the construction of bin Laden`s compound?

ROBERTSON: Well, it`s understood that the land itself was purchased in several lots over a period of time, which clearly means that there was an intent long in advance to get this sort of whole patch of land, four separate acquisitions. And the construction is believed to have begun sometime after 2005, perhaps `06, `07, somewhere in that sort of a timeframe.

The man here who was in charge of that construction was detained by police, has now been released, apparently, not believed to have been tied to bin Laden, knowing that this house was going to be built for him. But he must have known that this construction was a little bit out of the ordinary, at the very least, Nancy.

GRACE: Joining me right now from Raleigh, North Carolina, Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert. Ben, can you explain to us how, sitting in the White House, our president, Hillary Rodham Clinton and others could watch in real time the assassination of Osama bin Laden?

BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT (via telephone): Yes, Nancy. This is great technology. I mean, there are military satellites out there that can take precision pictures of that compound so they were able to model it. I mean, this is far superior to anything you`d see on the Internet or be available to the public.

And they also have broadband access by satellite. So basically, it`s like watching a webcam. It went from the helmets of those SEALs up to the helicopter, and then from the helicopter, it went by -- on the -- helicopter will have a satellite dome on it -- beamed up to the satellite, the satellite transmits it to Washington, D.C., where they have a -- that`s actually where a lot of these satellite companies are located. And it down -- you know, it was downloaded, basically, to the ground, and then sent over very secure lines into the White House. You`re watching it just about real time.

GRACE: Now, when you say through secure lines, what do you mean by that?

LEVITAN: Well, obviously, this is not going over the public Internet. All this is -- when the signal goes from the SEAL -- from the cameras that are on the SEALs` helmets, you`re seeing what a SEAL would be sealing -- seeing. It beams to a helicopter. It`s encrypted. It`s coded so that -- with special codes so that if anyone intercepted the signal, they couldn`t decipher it. And then it`s transmitted over the satellite.

Now, a satellite will cover one third of the earth. So if you have a satellite 25,000 miles up, it can just reflect the signal back down to Washington, D.C., where it`s captured by another satellite dish, just like you would watch satellite TV. And then from there, there`s probably lines that go directly to the White House that nobody else would ever have access to.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: By hiding propaganda in songs, children almost become immune to what they`re actually saying. And when children hear the same propaganda in their songs as they do from their parents, it quickly becomes fact. Listen to this Kuwaiti sheik preaching to parents about what to teach their children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Oh, mothers and fathers, you must train your children every night before they go to bed to go on raids in order to liberate Jerusalem and al Aqsa. And when he goes to sleep, after reading the Koran and the bedside verses, he should recite together with you the prayer of martyrdom -- Allah, I pray to you in all honesty to be martyred for your sake. Do this every night.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: If sex is used to influence teenagers, then cartoons are meant to reach an even younger crowd.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The education in the Middle East of demonizing the Jews is such an epidemic that they show cartoons all throughout the Middle East, and you have children watching these cartoons.

BECK: Educating through hate, celebrating death.

OBAMA: The United States has conducted an operation that killed Osama bin Laden.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Security, of course, is tight at airports and train stations around the nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Back to Nic Robertson joining us from Abbottabad. Nic, question. Is it true that he, bin Laden, is traced ultimately after all these years by some moron with a cell phone turned on?

ROBERTSON: That could have been part of it. It seems that the guys who were trying to avoid bin Laden actually using a cell phone, the couriers, they`re the ones that have sort of led the sort of path to bin Laden`s door, if you will. They seem to have been living with him, in part. One of them being on a phone is part of it, it seems. It`s one of their names coming up during interrogations in Guantanamo Bay. It`s the fact that people in Guantanamo Bay didn`t want to give up the names of the couriers, which really pointed to the fact that the couriers were hugely important. So it`s been bits and pieces of everything, Nancy.

GRACE: And how does that work, Ben Levitan? So we finally get the name of this courier, first name, got to trace him to where he is in the world, and he leaves his cell phone on going in and out of bin Laden`s compound.

LEVITAN: Well, obviously, he doesn`t watch your show, Nancy. Bin Laden apparently does. He had no cell phones, no Internet because you know you can be traced by that. But they had a watch list of people they were looking for. This guy got on the phone, and I don`t care where you are in the world, you`ve got to connect to a cell tower. We know where that cell tower is. We can find you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY CARNEY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We acted in the nation`s self-defense.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It took 40 minutes in and out of the compound.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A small team of Americans carried out the operation with extraordinary courage and capability.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The all-star of the SEAL teams.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Stunning details are emerging on what U.S. special forces encountered as they moved room to room.

CARNEY: Bin Laden`s wife rushed the U.S. assaulter and was shot in the leg but not killed.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was up there on the second and third floor where bin Laden was killed.

CARNEY: The team had the authority to kill Osama bin Laden unless he offered to surrender.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Bin laden made some kind much threatening move.

ROBERTSON: Two shots. One to the head, one to the chest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a time where retaliation could be at a peak.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Shocking video, some of it taken from extremist Web sites.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Joining us right now and taking your calls, Anderson Cooper. He`s joining us from Ground Zero.

Anderson, the White House now says today that they are reversing that decision to release the photo of bin Laden. It will not be released. Why?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN`S AC 360: Well, it`s not so much a reversal of a decision. According to the White House, President Obama was against the decision all along. The head of the CIA Leon Panetta had said that they thought the U.S. would release at least one photo at some point but apparently Secretary Gates, the defense secretary, and also Secretary Clinton, the secretary of state, backed President Obama on the decision.

And frankly I think it boiled down to a sense of not wanting to inflame people around the world any more than they might already be and the idea that there`s really not any need, according to the White House, that he is dead, they have the proof of it, no real reputable people are suggesting he`s not dead.

And that from the intelligence they`ve been getting from monitoring al Qaeda chatter, al Qaeda knows he`s dead. So the president is saying very clearly, this is not who we are, there`s no need to spike the ball in the end zone. This man is dead. He`s not going walk the earth again.

GRACE: Anderson, if Panetta says yesterday we are releasing the photos and the president says today we are not releasing the photos, how is that not a reversal?

COOPER: Well, if Leon Panetta was wrong that the U.S. was going to release the photo it wouldn`t be a reversal. But I mean I think I`ve heard that -- according to some sources there has been some frustration in the White House with Panetta coming forward and saying some of the thing he has said over the last 24 hours.

But, again, I don`t know too much of the details on it, Nancy.

GRACE: Anderson, when you refer to al Qaeda chatter suggesting that al Qaeda knows he is dead, do you have any idea the nature of that chatter?

COOPER: I don`t know. That is what President Obama said today in an interview with CBS "60 Minutes." It`s going to be aired on Sunday but some excerpts from it was released. They said that they have been -- you know, they monitor this stuff. They intercept communications all the time, signals intelligence from al Qaeda operatives and supporters all around the world.

And according to the president there is a sense within that chatter that they know that bin Laden is dead.

GRACE: Joining us, Anderson Cooper, he is there at Ground Zero.

Anderson, Reuters has published photos of dead bodies at the scene. What was that about? Was that inside bin Laden`s compound and why did they publish that?

COOPER: Right. Those photos were inside the compound. My understanding is those photos were taken after the raid, after U.S. personnel had left the scene. Some of those photos were taken by Pakistani people on the ground. I`m not sure if they were Pakistani military officials or not but those photographs, Reuters got those photos from them, is my understanding.

And I`ve seen some of the photos, they are very grizzly photos. They showed two men in pools of blood. I believe those are -- those may be the two -- the courier and his brother who were previously talked about but I don`t know that for a fact.

GRACE: Anderson, the 20-something young lady that was a, quote, "gift" to bin Laden as a wife from a wealthy Yemeni family, what has become of her, the one that rushed the SEALs?

COOPER: My understanding, and from all the reports I`ve gotten so far, Pakistani officials have everybody who was in the compound at the time of the raid and was left behind, has them in custody, some of them are being interviewed, interrogated.

We don`t know the details of what form of interrogation. Pakistani officials have said that, you know, one of those -- one of those young girls who is apparently a daughter of bin Laden claims that she saw her father being killed in front of her, that her account is very different than what the U.S. officials` account is. How accurate her account is, though, you know, there`s no way for me to say or anyone to say really.

GRACE: And also, Anderson, isn`t that coming largely from Al Arabiya? I mean how do I know the 12-year-old girl said that --

COOPER: That is.

GRACE: -- as posed to Al Arabiya saying it?

COOPER: Well, yes, it`s a good point. I mean we don`t know -- it comes both from Al Arabiya and one other source who both have slightly different versions. So yes, there`s no way to know exactly unless you hear from herself and, you know, look, this is a person whose father has been killed by the United States. Obviously she would have a reason to, you know, give an account which puts the United States in the worst possible light. Again, there`s just no way for me to confirm it one way or the other.

GRACE: And Anderson, what can you tell me about their absolutely identifying bin Laden through the use of not only DNA but biometrics? Explain that. Do you know about that?

COOPER: Right. A photograph was taken from the reports that U.S. officials have given out, photograph was taken, sent back in real time, and they used facial recognition software and they have some very advanced stuff from what I under beyond what we would know about or know about in the open market.

And they were able to identify him that way. That`s not 100 percent obviously. Because they were able to take the body with them, they apparently took DNA samples and were able to compare those to other DNA samples that previously are in U.S. custody from -- I believe to be from relatives of bin Laden, exactly who we`re not exactly sure.

And also one interesting note that we learned today, Nancy, you know, it`s known bin Laden was tall. The Navy SEALs when they were there in the compound after he had killed they didn`t have a tape measure. One of the SEALs reportedly laid down next to him just to get a sense of whether, you know, another way of sort of identifying this man to see how tall he was compared to one of the Navy SEALs.

GRACE: You know, I`m going to follow up on something. Anderson Cooper, when you`ll see him tonight on "AC 360".

Ben Levitan, our telecommunications expert, Anderson is telling us about biometrics, the way that they send a photo in real time to positively identify bin Laden. It sounds extremely futuristic like something we would see in the movie.

Explain to us the technology that Anderson is referring to.

BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Nancy, this is called faces software. And it`s a couple of years old. And fairly controversial privacy wise. It is used occasionally in the United States. Used heavily in China.

In China there are cameras all over the streets. And when you pass one of those cameras it takes a picture of your face. And what the software does is take certain points like the distance between your cheekbones, the height of your nose, the height of your forehead, how long your -- the proportion of your head.

And it brings it into a database and compares those measurements to a database of all the criminals that are on it. And for example, this is done in China. They have a database with the biometric measurements of all the criminals they are looking for.

If you match a face in that database, it pops up and they can send a police officer out for you. They`ve tried this at a couple of places in the United States, there`s been some tremendous privacy concerns so we really haven`t seen it in public.

Police would like -- Homeland Security would love to use this at the airport to take a picture of everybody coming in to an airport and compare their faces --

GRACE: Right.

LEVITAN: -- scientifically against a database of known terrorists so if someone walks in the door that we don`t want in the airport you can stop them immediately. But this is what they used and obviously in this situation, in a military war situation, it`s very appropriate to use there.

GRACE: And, Anderson Cooper, question. We know that there are a lot of henchmen in line to step in now that bin Laden is gone. Who is the top pick amongst al Qaeda?

COOPER: Well, Ayman al-Zawahiri was the number two man in al Qaeda. He`s an Egyptian. He`s been the right-hand man to bin Laden in sort of the heyday, pre-9/11 heyday of al Qaeda. He`s also obviously in hiding, believed to be in Pakistan. Not clear how much connection they have had or interaction they have had. Most likely they have, though, through couriers.

He`s believed to be the person who will take over al Qaeda. Said not to be, though, as, you know, to be as, quote-unquote, "charismatic". I never quite could understand how bin Laden was all that charismatic. But according to some he was. So it remains to be seen how powerful and effective he will be as a leader of al Qaeda.

GRACE: Well, you know, Anderson, everything they said about bin Laden has turned out to be true. Kidney problem, no. Dialysis, no. Frail, no. Paralysis on left side, no. Living in a cave, no.

None of it was true.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It`s just one example of the extraordinarily hateful propaganda used by extremists in the Middle East.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through Translator): We want the blood of a Christian child before Passover for the masters (ph).

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It is a story --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- gripping the entire world.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Ten years and more than 7,000 miles from New York City.

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT: I can hear you.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Let`s go to -- do I have Rhonda in Massachusetts, or is it Rona?

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Hi, Rona. Hi, dear. What`s your question?

RONA, CALLER FROM MASSACHUSETTS: Hi. My point is that if al Qaeda could have pulled off an operation like 9/11, don`t you think that if bin Laden was still alive they would have found a way to show him in a present day setting that couldn`t be questioned to show that he`s still alive? They would want to show that he`s still alive. If they can`t show he`s still alive that`s the best proof you`ve got there that he`s dead.

GRACE: You know what? Rona, you`re right. But go ahead and buckle your seatbelt because you can expect another video from bin Laden to surface. I`m surprised it`s not already here. We understand it`s already coming through the pipes of al Qaeda.

Is it going to be him speaking about his death or will it be him insisting he`s alive? We`ll see. But you`re right. The fact that he has not shown himself at this juncture does show he`s dead.

I have no reason to doubt it. It`s Al Arabiya and some others that want to doubt it, that don`t want it to be true.

Back to the lines. Who`s my caller from Ohio? Austin in Ohio. Hi, Austin.

AUSTIN, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi.

GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?

AUSTIN: I was wondering what they were going to do about the lady that was shot in her leg in the compound after the interrogation?

GRACE: You know what`s going to happen to her?

Let`s go to Leone Lakhani, joining us from Islamabad. CNN correspondent.

Leone, what about the woman shot in the leg there in the compound?

LEONE LAKHANI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We`re told by intelligence -- an intelligence source who we spoke to today that that woman is that 29-year- old Yemeni wife. Now that hasn`t been confirmed but we were told that there were two or three women in custody that are being interrogated, one of which is that 29-year-old Yemeni wife who was shot in the leg.

We`re also told that there were a number of people that the Pakistani intelligence found when they came on to the scene. They found four men who were left dead and I know you`ve spoken about these before, Nancy.

So two of them were the brothers who were living there. One son of Osama bin Laden and one man who was unidentified. And they also said that daughter of Osama bin Laden, the 12 or 13-year-old daughter, was the one who told them that he watched -- her father being shot by U.S. forces.

GRACE: With me is Leone Lakhani, joining us from Islamabad.

Now to Mike Barrett, former director of strategy, White House Homeland Security Council, now principal at Diligent Innovations.

Mike, thank you for being with us. What is going to become of the woman after interrogation and also, Mike, so many people are talking about why didn`t we take bin Laden alive. Why would we?

MIKE BARRETT, FORMER DIRECT OF STRATEGY FOR WHITE HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY COUNCIL, PRINCIPAL, DILIGENT INNOVATIONS: Well, I think in terms of the lady, I mean, you know, most likely she`ll be interrogated for some intelligence value and then released. You know --

GRACE: Yes.

BARRETT: Her role in this drama is pretty much done.

GRACE: OK.

BARRETT: So I mean that`s most likely. And you know --

GRACE: (INAUDIBLE)

BARRETT: You`ll hear from various reports that there were children there and all that.

In terms of bin Laden, I mean, you know, I think that the reports we`re getting are actually probably very much factual. Had he absolutely clearly surrendered we would take him alive and they were prepared to do that. But, you know, he gives any indication whatsoever of resistance, which I`m sure he did, then you shoot him.

I mean you`re in a situation where it`s a hostile environment. You -- you know, you`ve violated the sovereignty of a nation to go after the world`s most wanted terrorist.

GRACE: Right.

BARRETT: He`s a highly trained killer. You don`t have time. You know I think we have absolutely no reason to second guess, you know, the Navy SEALs that were on scene doing this.

We`ve been looking for this guy for a long time. You find him. You`re not taking any chances whatsoever.

I mean can you imagine what would happen if he had escaped somehow? You had him in custody and let him go? I mean, you know, that would have been terrible.

GRACE: Yes. Yes. You`re right, Mike Barrett. Absolutely correct.

Now joining us, Hazami Barmada, president of the American Muslim Interactive Network.

Thank you so much for being with us. Could you tell us what is typical Muslim funeral protocol?

HAZAMI BARMADA, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN MUSLIM INTERACTIVE NETWORK: Usually when a Muslim is killed the protocol would be to wash the body, and then body is wrapped in a white linen of some sort, then a prayer ceremony -- usually kind of a prayer reading of the Fatihah (ph) verse of the Quran, and then the body is buried. Usually the body is buried not in a casket, just straight into the ground with no gravestone or anything of the sorts to identify the grave.

GRACE: From anything you`ve heard about the burial at sea of Osama bin Laden, does that violate Muslim protocol?

BARMADA: So there`s been a lot of different opinions around this. Now some of the main questions arise from why did the United States go to the extreme of trying to give Osama bin Laden a, quote-unquote, "Islamic burial," because a lot of people do not perceive him to be Muslim.

Even in the statement that was made by Obama who said that he was not Muslim, so why would you go the extreme to do that. Also one of the most interesting things that I found that has come out of this is that in Islam when you do --

GRACE: Joining me right now is Richard Marcinko, founder of the SEAL Team Six. Retired U.S. Navy commander joining us out of Washington, D.C..

Richard, it`s a real honor to have you on with us tonight. Thank you for being with us. Could you explain to me a profile of a Team Six member?

RICHARD MARCINKO, FOUNDER, SEAL TEAM SIX, RETIRED U.S. NAVY COMMANDER: Well, Nancy, what is there today is, you know, sophisticated from what I did when I founded it in 1980. But what you basically have is somebody who`s probably 33 -- or 26 to 33. Probably married. Has gone through a cut of volunteering for the Navy.

Gone through BUDS training, and then at an attrition rate of only 23 to 27 percent, make it through. Served in an operational team that already have been into combat in Afghanistan and Iraq. And qualified and made it through to Development Group where they have another cut there and sometimes up to 50 percent don`t make it through (INAUDIBLE).

So you`ve got cut, cut, cut. And this man is now at the pinnacle of his military career in special warfare in terms of being -- most of them now are somewhere between 13 and 17 trips to Iraq and Afghanistan. They have a budget where they buy the best toys in the world that are available or build them themselves. And they have a whole lot of experience and then mature. So what you have is somebody who is at the top of the (INAUDIBLE).

GRACE: To Simone Monasebian, former war crimes tribunal prosecutor.

Simone, was the operation, the assassination lawful?

SIMONE MONASEBIAN, FORMER WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL PROSECUTOR: Well, what was the intent of those who undertook the operation? Was it to allow bin Laden to have an opportunity to surrender and if he didn`t surrender then to take him out? That would mean it was a lawful operation.

GRACE: Well, let me hear a response.

Michael Griffith, what do you think?

MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY/CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It was unlawful. We violated the sovereignty of another country, potentially without their permission.

GRACE: Good lord in heaven.

GRIFFITH: And Nancy, I`m a little annoyed at the SEALs because I heard one of the numbers in his pocket was my number.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: GRACE: You get religious faith, primal hatred, and the promise of ecstasy combined. What a powerful, powerful incentive to kill yourself.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Nearly one decade since the single worst attack on U.S. soil ever in our nation`s history, the mastermind behind the September 11 attacks finally dead tonight.

We have not forgotten.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to remind you why the United States went after Osama bin Laden.

Nearly 3,000 Americans were slaughtered when 19 al Qaeda operatives hijacked three planes on September 11th, 2001.

The following images are very disturbing, and some of you may be seeing them for the first time.

The World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and the Shanksville, Pennsylvania site became unimaginable disaster scenes.

Victims ranged in age from just 2 years to 85. More than 340 New York firefighters were killed. Dozens of NYPD and Port Authority police officers died. As many as 50 people fell or jumped from the World Trade Center`s north tower.

Almost 10 long years later, some justice is finally delivered.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Some justice. We have not forgotten.

Thank you for being with us and inviting us into your homes. I`ll see you tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END