Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Bin Laden's Last 9/11 Plot?; Epic Flooding in the South; Security Alert from Bin Laden Files; The State of the Job Market; Trouble in Tennessee; The Amanda Knox Story; Defeating Al Qaeda through Energy Independence?

Aired May 06, 2011 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. It's Friday, May 6th, and welcome to AMERICAN MORNING. So much we're following today, including the latest details of what's happening in Pakistan and also in the Midwest in the south where this flooding is just massive.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR:: Yes, speaking of the situation in Pakistan right now, we're finding out more about a threat that was pulled right from Osama Bin Laden's files.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: The Homeland Security Department here in the United States issued an alert about rail security. A law enforcement source says al Qaeda was plotting to attack trains in the U.S.

ROMANS: And there was one possible date mentioned, 9/11/2011. Jeanne Meserve is going to have more on that in a moment.

Also this morning, there's incredible some new details on Operation Neptune Spear. We know that was the name given to the secret mission to target Osama bin Laden. "The Washington Post" reports CIA spies monitored bin Laden's lair for months from a safe house in Abbottabad, Pakistan.

CHETRY: New video from the night of the assault on bin Laden's compound. This was taken by a neighbor. It shows his three-story house in flames.

VELSHI: Today, President Obama will travel to Fort Campbell, Kentucky, to personally thank members of the U.S. Navy SEAL team that took down bin Laden. Yesterday, he was at Ground Zero meeting with families and firefighters, families of 9/11 victims and firefighters.

ROMANS: Meantime, we're getting a clearer picture of what happened in those final 38 minutes of this massive hunt for bin Laden. A U.S. official tells us that the raid was launched after the CIA spotted a tall man doing prison yard walks around the compound. The first man killed was bin Laden's courier. He also fired the only shot, we're told, at the SEALs.

VELSHI: And then they moved into the main house where they killed the courier's brother and found bin Laden and his family while no other shots were fired.

A congressman who was briefed on the raid today "USA Today" there was concern bin Laden was wearing a suicide vest and that the house was rigged.

CHETRY: Jeanne Meserve joins us now live from Washington. She has more on this latest possible threat on America's railways.

How concerned are homeland security officials and others worried that this was perhaps something that was in the early stages?

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, they are stressing at this point that this was aspirational. It was not operational. There is no indication of any imminent threat to rail in the United States.

But here's what they are saying. They sent out information to state and local law enforcement and the rail sector yesterday saying that within those materials that were seized at bin Laden's compound they found a document which indicates that in February of 2010, al Qaeda was discussing the possibility of hitting rail in the United States, specifically derailing trains over bridges -- on bridges or over valleys, presumably to maximize casualties. They say that no specific city or rail system was mentioned in this information, but they did talk about staging these attacks to coincide with the anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, the 10th anniversary that's coming up in September.

But it does not appear, officials say, that any higher ups in al Qaeda, including Osama bin Laden, had signed off on this plot, but they were concerned enough to send out the information to the sector so they would be aware.

Now, in addition to those specifics, officials tell me that they have found material there which indicates al Qaeda was still interested in hitting major cities in the United States, specifically New York, Washington, D.C., L.A., and Chicago were all mentioned. In addition, they talk about hitting on specific significant dates, not just the September 11th anniversary as is mentioned in the rail information, but also July 4th, Christmas, and the opening day of the U.N. General Assembly when all the world leaders would be assembled in New York City.

Last night, the former homeland security secretary, the first homeland security secretary, Tom Ridge, appeared on CNN. Here's a bit of what he had to say about the rail notice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM RIDGE, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: It's a head's up. It's a warning. I don't think it's necessarily actionable but it's appropriate to send this information out to those responsible for that infrastructure. They just wanted to remind people that there's still a potential target, take notice, but use the information that we have, but don't make any -- don't make any changes now. There's no necessity for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MESERVE: Now, a lot of rail systems in the country had already stepped up security after the news that Osama bin Laden had been killed. They're well aware that rail has been a repeated target of al Qaeda and other terrorist groups. They knew to be on alert already.

There's widespread expectation in addition that there will be more of those kinds of notices and alerts sent out as officials continue to sift through the great volumes of material that were seized at bin Laden's hideout. Back to you.

ROMANS: All right. Making sense of what that intelligence means. Jeanne Meserve -- thank you, Jeanne.

CHETRY: The other interesting thing is our security has certainly changed here in this country since 9/11. Stricter immigration -- obviously, there are more checks and balances in place. We're going to be talking to Peter Brookes, he's deputy secretary of defense, now at the Heritage Foundation -- could they pull this off? Even if this was found in the mother lode of intelligence, could they have pulled it off here in the U.S.?

VELSHI: And we're going to be talking about that question about Pakistan warning the U.S. not to come and do these things again, otherwise, they'll reconsider their relationship to us.

ROMANS: Interesting there was a drone strike just this morning.

VELSHI: A drone strike this morning. That's right.

All right. We're following that story very closely. The other story we're following here in the United States is the Mighty Mississippi. It's still rising this morning. Epic flooding -- and I'm not -- I'm not using that term loosely.

ROMANS: Right.

VELSHI: Epic flooding in the South is forcing thousands to flee their homes.

CHETRY: For example, in eastern Arkansas, there are three towns that are under mandatory evacuation orders this morning. There you see them, Cotton Plant, McClelland and Gregory. State police and the National Guard helping hundreds find higher ground in those three towns.

Also, you take a look at Interstate 40. This is the nation's third longest east to west connecter freeway. It's a major trucking artery as well, that cuts right through Arkansas. Well, there you see parts of it -- a 23-mile stretch had to be closed again yesterday because the roadway was flooded.

ROMANS: Large sections of I-40 remain shut down in both directions this morning. Truckers are spreading the word to avoid the freeway at all costs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ended up just being bumper to bumper, stop for 10 minutes at a time. It took me two and a half hours to get 32 miles from Brinkley up here to Bald Knob. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've never seen anything like this by far. I've been four hours, gone maybe 40 miles.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't fight Mother Nature. She's going to play whatever she's going to play.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

ROMANS: She's going to play, so they're using their GPS to avoid this part of the country. In Memphis, Tennessee, floodwaters are threatening hundreds of homes right now. Emergency officials predict nearly 3,000 properties in the Memphis area could be impacted by flooding if the Mississippi crests at 48 feet this weekend. That would be the river's highest level, you guys, since 1937.

VELSHI: Wow.

ROMANS: Right now, it's approaching 46 feet.

VELSHI: And you were mentioning the towns adjacent or abutting big rivers in this country always have the high water mark on important buildings in the city. And to many places, there will be a new high water mark.

David Mattingly is live for us in Memphis this morning.

David, this is a strange story, because it's a slow-moving story and won't peak until next week.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Inch by inch, this river is on the move. We're at 46 feet right now, expecting a couple of more feet to crest some time possibly on Wednesday here in Memphis. We're seeing records being set to the north. We're seeing high water marks expected to the south of here, very close to a record here in Memphis.

And this is what 46 feet above flood level looks like. This is a city park, believe it or not. You see the trees that are in the water. You see this big lake here behind me. That's actually a parking lot where people come to park and enjoy this green space during the day, during the week.

Right now, it's all just underwater. And the thing about this flood, it's very slow coming in, very slow coming up. And it's going to be very slow to leave as well. They're looking at this, having an impact possibly until the end of May before all of the water is actually gone.

And the big problem they're looking at, because they have so many flood walls and levees here at the river, they're seeing problems in the tributaries of the rivers that empty into the Mississippi -- that water backing up and causing problems for communities along those tributaries.

So, here in Memphis, they've put out the call for volunteers to actually start filling sandbags as much as possible right now. They want to be prepared just in case there's any problem with the levees and they start seeing any sort of leaks or spills that they don't anticipate right now. They have a great deal of confidence those levees are going to hold. But because this is moving so slow, they have a lot of time to prepare, and they want to make sure they stay out in front of this big flood.

VELSHI: All right. David, thanks very much. We will stay on top of the story.

And you're just in one place. Memphis is a big deal, obviously. It's a highly populated area, but there are so many of these towns along the rivers that are getting affected by this along the Mississippi. David Mattingly for us in Memphis, Tennessee, right now.

CHETRY: Thanks, David.

Also, we're talking about new information seized from bin Laden's compound in Pakistan yielding, perhaps, some information about some terror threats that were in the works. We're going to be speaking with Peter Brookes -- he's a former assistant secretary of defense, now at the Heritage Foundation -- of just how realistic it is that al Qaeda could have, in fact, pulled any of that off here in the United States.

ROMANS: And it was debate night for the GOP, the first big GOP debate. But the news really from this debate is that most of the front runners weren't there. We'll tell you what happened and what didn't happen.

VELSHI: We're also about an hour and 20 minutes away for the jobs report for April. A lot of people worried that we may be bucking our trend of having gained lots of jobs. We'll find out for you live at 8:20 a.m. But we'll give you a preview -- 8:30 a.m. We'll give you a preview in a few minutes.

It is 10 minutes after the hour right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Thirteen minutes past the hour now.

Osama bin Laden holed up in a compound in Pakistan for five years, time spent plotting moves in, perhaps, his reign of terror. A law enforcement source says that al Qaeda was plotting to try to attack trains here in the United States.

Homeland Security Department has issued an alert about rail security.

And joining us now from Washington, our D.C. bureau, is Peter Brookes, former deputy assistant secretary of defense and senior fellow with the Heritage Foundation.

Peter, thanks for being with us.

PETER BROOKES, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Good to be with you. CHETRY: So, now assessing that information as we've talked about at Quantico. The FBI taking a look at a lot of those files seized from that safe house. New information showing that al Qaeda was at least aspirationally planning new attacks on trains, at least four U.S. cities -- New York, Washington, L.A. and Chicago.

What do you think? Do you think they could have carried these out?

BROOKES: Certainly possible. They have looked at there have been plots in the past against Washington and New York metro systems.

You know, Kiran, we've had as many as 40 plots against the United States since 9/11 and some of those have resulted in deaths, such as what happened at Fort Hood a few years ago when an Army major killed about 15 people and injured 30.

So, we cannot become complacent about this. This is something they've been thinking about. They look at anniversaries. They look at soft targets where a lot of people will gather and I think we have to take these seriously because, now, I think al Qaeda wants revenge and they also want to show that as an organization, that they're still viable, and they're going to do -- I think they're going to try to lash out in some way.

CHETRY: It's interesting. You mentioned Nidal Hasan, the Fort Hood shooter. You also have the Christmas Day underwear bomber, Abdulmutallab, and then Faisal Shahzad. He was the one who attempted to set off that car bomb in Times Square.

In each of these cases, though, we're not talking about a large-scale attack. We're talking about lone wolf, perhaps people that were inspired by, but not necessarily directed by al Qaeda. I mean, could a 9/11-style attack, or even in this case, a large scale attack on our rail system still be carried out today successfully, plotted in, let's say, Pakistan and then carried out here in the U.S.?

BROOKES: I think it could be, but I think we've made it much more difficult for them. I would say that we're safer today, especially with Osama bin Laden silenced, but we're not safe. You just don't know how these things can develop. And you're right, a lone wolf attack is problematic. It's probably the most dangerous thing we have to worry about. But remember the Times Square bomber, he came one spark away from potentially killing a lot of people. If that square had been very busy and those explosives had gone off, it could have killed a lot of people. Maybe not as --

CHETRY: No, you're right. I'm not trying to diminish it at all.

BROOKES: Yes. No, I understand that, of course.

CHETRY: I'm just asking about sort of that whole, you know, the sending of the 19 hijackers could that happen today. But this was also really interesting that the CIA reportedly had the safe house in Abbottabad.

BROOKES: Oh, yes. CHETRY: They say they were actually spying on bin Laden's compound. They were building up human intelligence before the attack. Were you surprised to hear that they had assets that close to bin Laden?

BROOKES: Not really. But it's fabulous. It's fabulous that we're able to pull that off because there's always a chance of being detected and it could have tipped off Osama bin Laden and he could have escaped. I would have thought, of course, we used satellites which you can look at these inside the compound but you can't see everything. So it's a really tribute to the spy craft, to the trade craft of our intelligence forces that they were able to put people on the ground close to that compound.

CHETRY: Yes.

BROOKES: And we just can't thank them enough for being able to pull that off.

CHETRY: That certainly is amazing from, you know, the United States' point of view and our intelligence point of view but it also seems to, I guess, make it already shaky relationship.

BROOKES: Right.

CHETRY: This questionable situation between whether Pakistan and the U.S. are true allies. It seems to also bolster, you know, Pakistan's claims. They're upset about this situation, obviously, but one of the things that was interesting, the chief of Pakistan's army issued a pretty combative statement. He said that -- saying if the U.S. ever tried a similar commando operation in our country it would put the whole relationship in doubt. How much of this is saving face? How much of it is true?

BROOKES: Yes, that's a very good question, Kiran. I mean, you know, they're feeling a whole slew of emotions right now, embarrassment that Osama bin Laden, which they had said for many years was a -- the idea that Osama bin Laden was in Pakistan was basically a western conspiracy theory and he turned out to be there. Embarrassment, a little bit of nationalism, some pushback. I mean, there's going to be a lot of tough talk going on between Pakistan and the United States in the days and months to come.

The thing that Pakistan needs to realize, Kiran, is the fact that they are as much under threat from this terrorism and extremism as we are. The Taliban, Al Qaeda, you know, the Haqqani Network. I mean, if we fail in Afghanistan, they're going to have much bigger problems. And they've been riding this tiger of extremism for some time and when they try to dismount, I think that tiger is going to look at them.

Just think about the president of Pakistan, Zardari. His wife, Benazir Bhutto, was killed by a terrorist organization in that country.

CHETRY: Right.

BROOKES: So they've got to get out of this feeling of denial and move forward with us in dealing with these terrorist groups that not only populate their country but some of the countries around them.

CHETRY: All right. Well, you wrote a very interesting column about why it would be shortsighted to try to say that we should cut off our relationship with them and our support for them financially when it comes to fighting terror. I urge people to see that because it's interesting.

Peter Brookes, thanks so much for joining us this morning. Great to have you.

BROOKES: Thank you.

CHETRY: We're going to be "Minding Your Business" after the break.

It's 18 1/2 minutes after the hour. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: You know, some people criticize the data wonks to love, to look at the monthly jobs report. It's what we need to gauge if jobs are being created.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: Right.

ROMANS: But then there are others who say --

CHETRY: Data wonks, I love that.

ROMANS: I know, I know.

CHETRY: That's you.

ROMANS: It is actually. And it's Carmen as well. But it's also, look --

CARMEN WONG ULRICH, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I prefer nerd.

ROMANS: Nerd.

But look, this is the number that shows what all of you have been telling us. It's still hard to get a job. No matter what, it's still hard to get a job.

ULRICH: And you know what, the perception is reality and this is what people are feeling.

VELSHI: Right.

ULRICH: They see it, they sense it, they feel it. We got the jobs report for April. It's going to be released at 8:30 a.m. today, but the expectations are as such. Economists are saying that about 185,000 jobs look to be added, mostly from the private sector. And this is a big, big drop from the month before, which is over 200,000.

Now the unemployment rate remains unchanged at 8.8 percent. And a new CNN/Opinion Research poll just came out this morning. Your opinion of economic conditions in the country today, well, it's pretty dire. Eighty-two percent of respondents said we are in poor economic conditions. Eighteen percent just saying somewhat good. Now these are almost the same percentages we have been seeing consistently since September 2008.

Now, why? The poll also found, and this is very similar, too, 38 percent -- this is really tough -- unemployment is the most important economic issue, 38 percent of Americans say, 28 percent saying the federal budget deficit, 21 percent rising gas prices and also housing costs are a culprit here in terms of our mood.

ROMANS: And no surprise the job is the engine of your personal economy. So if the job --

ULRICH: If the checks are not there, if you cannot pay the bills, this is the most important thing.

CHETRY: Right.

ULRICH: And also folks who have jobs are incredibly, incredibly afraid and this is going on three years of losing what they have.

CHETRY: And then how do these natural disasters factor in? Because there's a lot of talk about the economic impact of what's going on with the Mississippi River flooding, some of these casinos shutting down, they say, perhaps for three to six months.

VELSHI: Yes.

CHETRY: I mean, this is money not coming in and a disaster.

VELSHI: Right.

ULRICH: Look what happened in New Orleans as well. I mean, this is a huge economic impact and it really has a ripple effect across the nation.

ROMANS: Meanwhile, the markets yesterday had a wild ride.

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: Really wild ride.

ROMANS: Decline for commodities and for stocks.

ULRICH: Pretty dramatic.

The Dow down over one percent, 140 points. Nasdaq down almost one percent down, almost 14 as well. And the S&P down as well. However, futures this morning, people are looking positive now so they're going up.

ROMANS: Yesterday, they were worried about the worst for the jobs report.

VELSHI: Yes. ROMANS: Now, this is how Wall Street works, boys and girls.

ULRICH: Yes.

ROMANS: One day this way --

VELSHI: But we should tell you, I mean, we had a surge in the value of the dollar yesterday. A very big increase, very big drop in the price of oil.

CHETRY: Oil, silver.

VELSHI: Commodities.

CHETRY: Why silver and not gold?

VELSHI: Silver is actually -- silver is actually something you use. Gold used for jewelry and as a hedge. But silver is actually an industrial commodity.

CHETRY: We use gold. Just a little.

VELSHI: Lots of commodities, yes.

ROMANS: But oil back below $100 a barrel.

VELSHI: Yes.

ROMANS: And that's 11 percent move in just a week.

VELSHI: Yes.

ROMANS: So a big decline for oil prices.

ULRICH: Not a dull day.

ROMANS: I know.

VELSHI: Yes, it's a roller coaster. It's going to be another one today. We'll keep you posted.

ROMANS: Thanks, Carmen.

VELSHI: Thanks, Carmen.

ROMANS: Thank you, Carmen.

VELSHI: As Kiran was just saying, we have this epic flooding in the south. Thousands of homes are being threatened in Memphis. We've got dramatic pictures of that.

David Mattingly is on the ground there. We're going to be speaking to some people from on the ground in Memphis very shortly to see how they're preparing to get out of their homes. We'll be right back.

It's 25 minutes after the hour. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Across the half hour right now, here's a look at your top stories.

We're still covering the latest on this epic flooding that's taking place in the country's midsection and south forcing thousands to evacuate their homes. In Arkansas, sections of Interstate 40 still shut down in both directions. There's a look. The floodwaters choking off one of the busiest east-west trucking arteries in the country. And with the Mississippi continuing to rise, record flooding is expected all along the river as far south as Louisiana.

VELSHI: An alleged plot already uncovered in Osama bin Laden's own files. The Homeland Security Department has issued an alert about rail security in the United States. A law enforcement source says Al Qaeda was plotting to attack trains. They mentioned a number of possible dates including the anniversary of 9/11 this year.

ROMANS: Gas prices are down this morning, after 44 straight days of going up. According to AAA, the national average is now $3.98 a gallon. Oil prices plunged yesterday, down below $100 a barrel. So maybe, maybe --

VELSHI: Maybe the acceleration in gas prices will slow down.

ROMANS: Maybe.

VELSHI: But I think I don't -- I don't know that we're not going to get to $4 as a national average.

ROMANS: I think it's pretty close. Yes.

CHETRY: All right. Back to our top story this morning, the flooding crisis unfolding along the Mississippi River from the upper Midwest all the way down to the Gulf of Mexico. In fact, here's a map we had earlier today to show you just areas that are under flood watches or warnings right now. You see it stretches up and down our nation. People in harm's way in many places. Rivers flowing over their levees, homes being evacuated or the floodwaters are about to hit.

ROMANS: Gosh, when you look at that, it looks almost like the Great Lakes. You know, I mean --

VELSHI: It's unbelievable, right. You'll see it on the map.

ROMANS: This area is in trouble.

VELSHI: Now, this CNN I-report sent to us from Steven (ph) Gibson in Memphis, parts of the city as we've been showing you this morning are under water. About 300 people are in shelters this morning and the flooding, this is very clear.

We've been hearing this from everybody. It is expected to get worse before it gets better. One big area of concern in Tennessee is Mud Island. The Mississippi is so swollen that it's causing the Wolf River to flow backward and spill over its banks.

ROMANS: Joining us live from Memphis this morning, syndicated radio talk show host Ben Ferguson, a Mud Island resident, who has been warning people of Memphis about the rising waters.

Ben, welcome to the program. I mean, give us a sense of what it's like to be there in the middle of this disaster?

BEN FERGUSON, RESIDENT OF MUD ISLAND: Yes. Well it's eerie. You know it's eerie when you go on the radio when Osama Bin Laden has been killed, and you're actually saying we'll get to that in a minute, but first let's deal with the flooding.

That's something I never thought I would say, but for people here it's probably the eeriest things I've seen. You see flash flooding. You see tornadoes. We see hurricane damage. This is something we know it's coming and they're telling you it's coming at you at about a foot a day, the Mississippi River, and there's nothing you can do to stop it.

Everybody here, for example, on the island, we're technically not like in a flood plain as they call it. So none of us have flood insurance. You call to ask about it, we don't offer that to you. Really it's on your own dime if you take on water.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FERGUSON (voice-over): I think that's what's concerned so many people as they feel like they've been prepared in their life. They feel like they live in an area where they thought they were safe. They're not even offered flood insurance and you see this water rising, coming at your house.

CHETRY: That's the other question as well. How rare is this? What we're seeing this year, what we're seeing along Mud Island and some of those places, this is a very atypical spring?

FERGUSON: This is something living in Memphis almost my entire life, we never seen anything. You look behind me, that's a parking lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FERGUSON: And the river is supposed to be about 100 yards behind me where it normally is. This is something people enjoy for recreation. They're walking their dogs down here on Saturdays. You will see people playing ultimate frisbee and football. People are trying to decide what do I do for the next couple weeks?

I think our biggest concern is, even if our houses are OK, we may not have access to our house because of flooding, because once it does peak, they're talking two, two and a half, maybe three weeks of high water. You may live literally on a desert island where you can't get out by car. That's something that changes your entire perspective on life.

VELSHI: Ben, what's the long-term or short-term economic effect on Memphis?

FERGUSON: Well, I mean, huge. There's so many people here that actually work down in Tunica, Mississippi, the casinos there. Some of those could be closed for six months.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FERGUSON (voice-over): You see a lot of people here that were going to go out -- this is our biggest tourism time of the year with Memphis in May.

Barbecue fest, which we're known for is going to have to be moved by a football stadium instead of by the river. So it's changed so many different dynamics of people's lives and the neat thing is, you're seeing a phenomenal job of the community coming together, so many church groups have come out for help.

You even saw an alliance last week, where you had one large Tunica casino, Harrah's casino, give all their food to a shelter and a church. That's not a marriage you see every day a casino and church, you know, joining together to help people.

ROMANS: Can I ask you about this notion of the Mississippi getting so strong, the tributaries are moving backwards. It sounds like an apocalypse, but that is happening, the Mississippi so strong, so much force in rising, that it's backing up the tributaries. Are you seeing that there?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FERGUSON: You know, we actually -- there's a harbor behind us, where we are, and we boat every weekend and one of my best friends and I, we went out on the Wolf River and you're watching a river that is always flowing with a four or five-mile-an-hour current going in the opposite direction.

Because the Mississippi has come up so high that it's literally pushing these back and that's where -- I guess you say the tragedy is happening. Just yesterday, we have an airplane, airport by our house. That is flooded because the levee failed and they're saying it could be five to six feet under water.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FERGUSON (voice-over): All the planes had to hurry up and take off. They took off a couple days ago. As you see this, you have a river going the wrong direction, which is flooding neighborhoods, businesses, and homes and the worst part is, it's not going down any time soon.

CHETRY: We understand public work staff, your dad in law enforcement, law enforcement trying to answer these calls. What are they telling people to do at this point?

(END VIDEO CLIP) FERGUSON: Yes. It's really, what we've tried to do is everybody has been saying look, you know this is coming. As one person described it, it's like watching a slow death. You know it's about to happen, you have time to prepare, get it planned.

Get an emergency plan. Make sure you have plenty of drinking water and food. If you're going to stay, know when to say I'm not staying any longer. The volunteers have been great. The information has been great.

And the best thing is, they've set up a web site, which has been awesome, staysafeshelby.us. You can actually go and see down even down to your street if you are going to probably get flooding or not.

So people have been able it to prepare. The problem is, the long-term effects of when the water comes in, it is not leaving in the next day or week or even couple weeks.

ROMANS: Yes, it's going to be an icky summer for so many people because cleaning up, you have to endure it and then there's the cleanup after and people trying to rebuild. We'll keep a very close eye on that. Ben Ferguson, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate your insight on the ground.

VELSHI: We've all covered hurricanes and I think it's fair to say one of the worst things after the hurricane is the flooding. Because it's so destructive and so hard to -

You don't get the same -- it doesn't feel the same as the hurricane. You don't get the same attention for it, people say it's a flood, when a river floods like that it's a big deal.

ROMANS: Floods in '97 and floods in 2001, floods more recently where you still have houses that are boarded up, you know, people haven't rebuilt.

CHETRY: We'll tweet up that web site, but he said it's staysafeshelby.u.s. where you can check on your areas and towns. People need all the information they can get.

VELSHI: You remember the name Amanda Knox. You may not know exactly who she is or why she's been in the headlines for the last three and a half years. Knox is an American convicted in Italy for allegedly murdering her college roommate.

But the questions still linger, did she do it? This weekend in a CNN Special Investigation, Drew Griffin looks at her case. He joins us now from Atlanta. Drew, the family, Amanda Knox's family still says that she is innocent.

DREW GRIFFIN, SPECIAL INVESTIGATION UNIT: Absolutely, Ali and you know, when I was assigned this story, I thought just another family pleading for their innocent kid, right?

Then I took a real close look at this case against Amanda Knox and my questions began turning towards the Italian police and the one prosecutor, Ali, who appears to seek convictions based on his instincts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Almost immediately after police say she confessed to her crime, Amanda Knox recants. She tells her parents she broke under stress. In court, she would tell jurors how a police officer struck her from behind, how she was denied water, food, a translator.

And how, she says, under pressure by police, she was asked repeatedly to dream up, imagine scenarios for how it could have happened. In a rare interview, the prosecutor of Amanda Knox, Giuliano Mignini agrees to sit down for an extensive on-camera discussion of the evidence. It was an interview he later appeared to regret.

(on camera): Nobody hit her?

GIULIANO MIGNINI, PROSECUTOR (through translator): No, absolutely not.

GRIFFIN: Was she asked to imagine scenarios? So she's lying?

MIGNINI: Absolutely. You either see the person or not. I can't ask a person what he or she imagines. This question would make no sense.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): That's not all that wouldn't make sense because it turns out virtually everything Amanda Knox told her interrogators the night of her so-called confession, was a lie.

Amanda Knox in this statement told police she was in the house the night of the murder and saw her boss, night club owner Patrick Lamumba and Meredith Curcher, go into Meredith's room and she heard screams.

Amanda's statement adds, I am very confused. I imagined what could have happened. Police apparently didn't bother to check the facts about Lamumba. They immediately arrested Amanda Knox, Raphael Solichito and Patrick Lamumba for the murder of Meredith Curcher.

Announcing to the public, case solved. Giuliano Mignini admitted to us, even without any evidence, he knew almost the moment he arrived and laid eyes on Amanda Knox and Raphael Solichito, they were involved in the murder.

(on camera): Prior to the forensic investigation, prior to everything, really, your intuition or your detective knowledge led you to Amanda Knox and Raphael Solichito?

MIGNINI: After the first few weeks, we were convinced because of the behavior of the two people and especially Amanda, that they were both involved in the crime.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): But almost immediately after the arrests, Mignini had a problem. The third suspect, Patrick Lamumba had an airtight alibi. He was in his crowded bar that night. He could not have been involved then the actual forensic tests came back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I looked at it, I was horrified.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Ali, we spent three hours interviewing that prosecutor going step by step through the evidence that he presented to the jury that convicted Amanda Knox. I think you will be shocked. If all you've been following this case is through the tabloids, you will be shocked at how little evidence was actually presented against Amanda Knox.

VELSHI: Tell me this, without giving away the special, tell me this, in the -- at the time of her trial and verdict, people were very stuck in their corners on this.

There were those who thought she was innocent and those who thought she was clearly guilty. In the time since that has happened, since her conviction, has much opinion been swayed one way or the other? For all intents and purposes this trial has continued outside of court?

GRIFFIN: That has been the biggest problem for Amanda Knox. The tabloid press especially over in Europe has gone wild with this story and it has polarized people. So many people in Italy still believe she's guilty and you ask why and they will tell you, she's got evil eyes.

That's what we got a lot of. But the tide is beginning to turn, the Knox case is under appeal at this moment. And if you actually go through the evidence, which is what the new trial jury is going through now. It's, again, you don't want to give away the story, but really seems scant.

VELSHI: We will watch it along with you, Drew. Thank you very much. You can catch Drew's special "Murder Abroad, the Amanda Knox Story" Sunday night at 8:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

You know, Drew and his team do fantastic work, but the thing that's going to be important about this, I think most people have heard about the Amanda Knox story, it was hard to discern what was news and what was rumor and what was --

ROMANS: And what was tabloid and just tabloid.

CHETRY: And that was the amazing part about what was allowed at trial, as evidence in some cases was conjecture and rumor.

VELSHI: I would be very interested to hear the whole story from Drew.

ROMANS: Let the debates begin. GOP holds its first presidential debate last night, but it was remarkable for, I guess, the cast at this event.

Some of the biggest names being bandied about were not there. Tim Pawlenty was and many say he was sort of the top billing. Who was there and who wasn't.

VELSHI: And energy independence. Something we talk about a lot in the United States. Would it help defeat al Qaeda? Jim Acosta has a very interesting story on that. It is 42 minutes after the hour.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Though there's still 18 months to go before the 2012 presidential election, but the debates have already started. In fact, FOX News sponsored the first GOP debate last night in Greenville, South Carolina.

ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: But the GOP front runners -- Romney, Huckabee, Trump, Palin -- nowhere to be found. Some of the lesser- known candidates did show up. And while there was some praise for President Obama for taking out Osama bin Laden, it didn't last.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM PAWLENTY (R), FORMER MINNESOTA GOVERNOR: He did a good job and I tip my cap to him in that moment, but that moment is not the sum total of America's foreign policy. He's made a number of other decisions relating to our security here and around the world that I don't agree with.

RICK SANTORUM (R), FORMER PENNSYLVANIA SENATOR: The decision he made with Osama bin Laden was a tactical decision. It wasn't a strategic decision. The strategic decision was made already by President Bush to go after him.

HERMAN CAIN, BUSINESSMAN/POLITICAL ACTIVIST: It's not clear what the mission is. That's the bigger problem. It's not clear what the mission is, it's not real clear to the American people what our interests are and then thirdly, it's not clear what the road map to victory is.

REP. RON PAUL (R), TEXAS: We went to Afghanistan to get him and he hasn't been there. Now that he's killed, boy, it is a wonderful time for this country now to reassess it and get the troops out of Afghanistan and end that war. That hasn't helped us and hasn't helped anybody in the Middle East.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

VELSHI: Well, you can check out the latest CNN Opinion Research poll conducted before the news of bin Laden's death broke. You can see there that Mike Huckabee leads the GOP field with 15 percent, Donald Trump, Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Ron Paul, all of them are within six points of him in double digits.

CHETRY: All right. Well, there is speculation that America's addiction to foreign oil has given life to al Qaeda. This is a theory that's out there, I guess you could say. Some terror experts say that it's become -- and becoming energy independent actually would help deliver the end to al Qaeda.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Maybe. Jim Acosta is following this for us. He's live in Washington. And if you just connect the dots from al Qaeda to America's energy independence, it's an interesting theory. How does it work out?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, you know, I mean one of the original reasons for Osama bin Laden's fatwa against the United States was our presence in the Middle East. He said repeatedly over the years that he thought the United States was stealing Middle East oil.

He thought that the way to destabilize the United States was to attack oil interests in the Middle East, so there is a connection. And the death of Osama bin Laden doesn't change one thing. America is still addicted to foreign oil. And counterterrorism experts say that only keeps gas prices high, it helps al Qaeda.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA (voice-over): The man behind the wheel of this new electric car can't stand the sight of a gas station.

(On camera): How do you like the car?

JIM WOOLSEY, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: I like it a lot.

ACOSTA (voice-over): That's because former CIA director James Woolsey sees the nation's addiction to foreign oil as its Achilles' heel on the war on al Qaeda.

On every fuel-efficient vehicle he drives, Woolsey posts this bumper sticker, "Bin Laden hates this car."

WOOLSEY: There we go.

ACOSTA: Woolsey points to past appeals made by bin Laden for jihadists to bring chaos to the Middle East. To push up gas prices and hurt the American economy. The only solution, Woolsey says, is to break the region's dominance of global energy supplies.

WOOLSEY: So we really, in the interest of everybody, need to undermine oil's strategic role, even if they have a monopoly of oil, they don't have a monopoly over transportation. We need to break that link.

ACOSTA (on camera): And so you want to stick it to these guys? Simply put?

WOOLSEY: Absolutely. Absolutely.

ACOSTA (voice-over): Instead, Americans are the ones feeling stuck. At a congressional town hall in Florida --

EILEEN GAINES, SMALL BUSINESS OWNER: My gas bill for my three vans in the last three months have gone up hundreds of dollars a month. ACOSTA: Small business owner Eileen Gaines explains how the bill to fill up her commercial vehicles stopped her from hiring a new employee.

(On camera): And so had the gas prices not gone up you would have been hiring?

GAINES: I would have hired someone two months ago. I really need that much help right now.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: We have to produce more of it ourselves.

ACOSTA (voice-over): The Republican Senator Marco Rubio, like many in his party, wants more offshore drilling.

RUBIO: We have to figure out a way to become more efficient in our use of energy, but we also have to figure out to produce more of it domestically.

WOOLSEY: This thing pops open when you press a button.

ACOSTA: For James Woolsey plugging your car into your house isn't just going green.

WOOLSEY: I think it would be a very embracing message. It would say that the United States can get its act together.

ACOSTA: Sending one more signal to al Qaeda that they're running on empty.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: But there are no quick fixes to America's addiction to foreign oil. For example, if you have millions of new electric cars out on the road you're going to need countless new charging stations and if you also open up new domestic oil, drilling off America's coastlines, experts will tell you that will not have an impact on gas prices until years down the road.

And when we talk to James Woolsey about his electric car, what he would like to see happen, because he drives a Chevy Volt, it also has a gas tank in there, is to have those cars converted to ethanol so you can completely wean -- at least some drivers off of foreign fossil fuels somewhere down the road.

It's obviously a ways off, guys.

(CROSSTALK)

CHETRY: Go ahead.

ROMANS: The problem is simple. We use a lot of oil and it makes the world go round. The solution is not so simple.

VELSHI: Yes. ACOSTA: Not so simple.

VELSHI: And there are two sorts of flaws in that. One is ethanol. We saw what that did to the price of corn.

ACOSTA: That's right.

VELSHI: It's really tough to put something you're otherwise supposed to eat or an animal are supposed to eat in your gas tank. And the other question is, U.S. demand has not moved the needle on oil prices in years. It's not demand coming from the U.S.

ROMANS: It's China, its emerging markets.

(CROSSTALK)

VELSHI: I'll go to electric cars but if they don't --

ROMANS: Yes. Yes.

CHETRY: That's your -- but that's your personal - I mean economy there. If you are able to save money because you are not buying gas.

VELSHI: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely right. If you can buy, if you can buy a car that consumes less gas.

ROMANS: That's right.

VELSHI: You're saving money, that's true.

CHETRY: Want to see infrastructure as well. I mean they need to have places, and we talked about this before, where you can charge up your electric car easily in cities.

VELSHI: Yes. And gas stations that do it. And one of the things that you sometimes do when you visit a gas station is use the bathroom.

CHETRY: And?

(CROSSTALK)

CHETRY: That's the last thing you would want when you're using that bathroom is defective toilet paper.

VELSHI: Correct.

CHETRY: I'm just -- this university is suing --

VELSHI: You picked that up well.

CHETRY: -- over defective toilet paper. How -- in what way exactly can toilet paper be defective?

VELSHI: We are going to tell you after the break. It is --

ROMANS: That was the best segue I have ever heard.

VELSHI: Fifty-two minutes after the hour. When we come back, everything you need to know about defective toilet paper.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Fifty-three minutes past the hour. We have a lot going on today. Here's a look at your headlines this morning.

We start with an alleged plot already uncovered from Osama bin Laden's own files. A law enforcement source says that al Qaeda was plotting to attack trains possibly on 9/11/2011 or the Fourth of July.

Epic flooding threatening homes, thousands of them in the south. In Arkansas, parts of Interstate 40 still shut down in both directions. It's a major east/west thruway. The Mississippi is also rising and the flooding is expected all along the river as far south as Louisiana.

Well, in a little more than 30 minutes, the Labor Department releases its April jobs report. Economists surveyed by CNN Money predict employers added 185,000 jobs last month.

And Coca-Cola is counting down this morning to its 125th birthday. To celebrate, Coke is throwing a concert tomorrow at Atlanta's Centennial Olympic Park. The first Coca-Cola was served on May 8th, 1886 at a pharmacy in Atlanta.

You're caught up on today's headlines. AMERICAN MORNING will be right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROMANS: Well, according to the commercials, you can feel the difference between single-ply and double-ply but can toilet paper really be defective or dangerous?

VELSHI: That I've never heard of.

ROMANS: Well, the University of Colorado is suing two companies that supplied the campus with toilet paper. The suit claims the paper failed to disperse properly. And it caused the toilets and the sewer lines to become clogged.

The school said it flushed good money down the drain. More than $40,000 worth to pay for plumbing repairs.

So there you go. We were concerned this morning as to how is toilet paper possibly defective.

VELSHI: Right.

CHETRY: I can't --

VELSHI: And everybody -- everybody in this room when we were discussing it did not -- nobody thought of that idea, that it was clogging the plumbing. Everybody was thinking about other things. So there we go.

All right. Often the first time -- first ones into some very tough situations, whether it's in policing or the military are dogs.

CHETRY: That's right. Dogs have been used in war zones and hot zones around the world for years. Well, as we know, one went with the Navy SEALs to get bin Laden.

VELSHI: Yes.

CHETRY: We're going to talk with the author of a new book about canine heroes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)