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Nancy Grace

Mom to Be Retried in Microwave Death of Baby/Anthony Defense Loses Another Team Member

Aired May 06, 2011 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Ohio. A newborn girl just 28 days old rushed to the ER, covered in severe burns to the face, the torso, her tiny limbs. Doctors try everything to save baby Paris. No good.

Bombshell tonight. Cops say the fatal burns not from a house fire, not from hot water in the bathtub. No, baby Paris was literally cooked to death in the microwave! Suspect number one, Mommy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They told me that it looked like somebody had cooked her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know why!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The death of 3-week-old Paris Talley.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators believe Arnold microwaved her infant daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) kill my baby.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Terrell Talley said China Arnold admitted to killing their baby several times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just kept saying she didn`t know she killed her baby. (INAUDIBLE) cheating on her, my baby would still be alive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: DNA evidence confirmed suspicions about the burns that killed Paris Talley.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She put her in a microwave.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Aggravated murder of her infant daughter`s death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police told China that her child had died by means of the microwave. Her reaction is, That can`t be true.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know why anybody would do that to her!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And breaking news tonight in the search for a 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 house from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct- taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.

Bombshell tonight. Tot mom`s defense team wants a lot of evidence and witnesses thrown out of court. But who -- who -- could predict that would include George and Cindy Anthony? That`s right, tot mom wants her own mother and father booted from court. Is tot mom convinced once they hear the evidence, they too will believe she murdered 2-year-old Caylee? This as tot mom appears to break down and cry when the judge compares her murder case to O.J. Simpson`s. Wah! Wah!

And tonight, after nearly three years of no visits, grandmother Cindy heads behind bars to meet with tot mom. But will tot mom reject the meeting? In the last hours, a legal battle over where the jury will be selected, the defense rejecting every alternative the judge offers. Be careful what you wish for, tot mom. You just might get it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I truly, truly love that little girl and miss her so much!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There she is, Casey Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaks down in tears.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The right of Casey Anthony to receive a fair and impartial trial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She wants her day in court.

CASEY ANTHONY: Can you understand how I feel?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was crying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charged with killing her own daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People grieve in different ways.

CASEY ANTHONY: Everything has been taken from me!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey is damned if she does and damned if she doesn`t.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you think happened here?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it was accidental.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Accidental how, though? What...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe she fell, or you know, with the little girl`s...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe she was afraid that she would be accused of child abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think she intended to kill her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She obviously has mental issues. She has lied. She deserves to be punished.

CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on!

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: Casey, hold on, sweetheart. Settle down, baby.

CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody is letting me speak. You want me to talk, then...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Phil Trexler, reporter with "The Akron Beacon- Journal." Phil, you know, already two times, this case has been before a jury. One jury came up with a mistrial. It just never seems to end. Is there ever going justice for baby Paris? What I don`t understand is how any jury could be so blind they don`t see what happened. And there`s no mental defense. This mother actually said to the baby`s daddy, If you hadn`t cheated on me, this baby would still be alive.

PHIL TREXLER, "AKRON BEACON-JOURNAL" (via telephone): You`re right on that, Nancy. Actually, a jury last year convicted the defendant in this case, and the court of appeals overturned it and now they`re trying her again. You know, the facts in this case are just horrific and -- it`s an unimaginable type of death for some -- an infant not even a month old to be, as the prosecutor said, cooked to death.

GRACE: To Joe Gomez with KTRH. Joe, explain to me how a jury could have originally given a mistrial in this case. Was there any suggestion that this mother was insane? I mean, she said point blank to the baby`s daddy, I did it because you cheated on me.

JOE GOMEZ, KTRH NEWSRADIO: Well, what happened, Nancy, was, apparently, the night of the murder, the -- China Arnold had got into a fight with her boyfriend, saying that -- the boyfriend was saying that he wasn`t the biological father of the child. They had been drinking Bacardi 152 the entire night. Well, she apparently went back home. Police say that she was so upset that she took her 1-month-old baby girl, put her in the microwave oven, cooked her alive, Nancy, for nearly two minutes. This baby -- her body temperature was up to about 108 degrees when they rushed her to the hospital. Her skin was so hot, Nancy, it was -- it was falling off! It`s an unimaginable horror story! It truly is.

GRACE: And I notice -- to Phil Trexler -- that the ruling by the police was that she had been in the microwave for about two minutes. How could they detect that? Is it because that`s what the mom said?

TREXLER: Well, you know what? The mom is denying, of course, putting her in the microwave. But the fact is, Nancy, is that they found the baby`s DNA inside the microwave. That`s how they connected it.

GRACE: To Dr. Marty Makary, physician and professor of public health, Johns Hopkins, joining us out of New York. Doctor, explain to me how this would have worked. How do you kill a baby in the microwave. How does it kill the baby?

DR. MARTY MAKARY, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, actually, most people are surprised to hear that burn injuries kill people because the person will suffocate. That is, the inflammation, the body`s response to the burn is to create such swelling internally and in the lungs that somebody just can`t breath. So in addition to the notoriously painful aspects of a burn injury, they also suffocate. So it is one of the most cruel ways that somebody can die.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Sue in Georgia. Hi, Sue. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Nancy. How are your twins?

GRACE: They are wonderful, praise the Lord. Thank you for asking. What is your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, Nancy, this is beyond sick! Is there any chance that -- I can`t imagine this. Is there any chance that she had been on any kind of psychiatric medication and mix it with alcohol or something?

GRACE: You know what, Sue? Sue, listen, I wish that were the case here so I could maybe understand what happened. But no. Joe Gomez, it`s my understanding she wasn`t high, she wasn`t drinking, she was perfectly and completely sane at the time she did this.

GOMEZ: Well, we understand that she was drinking Bacardi 151 at the night of the murder, Nancy. Apparently, she and her boyfriend were having a bit of a party in the park (ph), left the kids unattended when it happened. Then she went back, and that was when the act happened, that she allegedly put her baby in a microwave oven and -- for two minutes, two minutes left this child in the microwave! It`s unbelievable, Nancy!

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Sue Moss, family law attorney, child advocate, Nicole DeBorde, defense attorney out of Houston, Peter Elikann, defense attorney, author of "Super Predators."

Weigh in, Sue Moss.

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Well, so much for Mother`s Day! She admitted to this crime! She explained the motive to this crime! Now, they`re saying that her admitting -- her confession was out of context. I don`t know. There`s a dead baby. She said she killed the baby. I`m not an English major, but the context seems fine! Add that to the fact that she explained why she did it, because her boyfriend cheated, and you`ve got a wrapped-up case!

GRACE: Everyone, a 28-day-old baby girl, baby Paris, placed into a microwave oven until she`s dead!

We`re about to take you out to tot mom. Our satellites are coming up right now. But very quickly, to Peter Elikann. Weigh in on this case.

PETER ELIKANN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. You know, I don`t think that she admitted to it. She said that -- you know, this -- she said to the husband (INAUDIBLE) this is taken out of context -- This wouldn`t have happened if you hadn`t cheated on me. Maybe she meant that if he had been around -- I mean, if he had been around that he could have prevented it from happening from this accident or somebody else...

GRACE: OK, you know what...

ELIKANN: ... coming in and doing this violence.

GRACE: ... what, Peter? I respect that you`re trying, but it doesn`t even make sense. Nicole, give me your best shot.

NICOLE DEBORDE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, this is going to be a really tough case, obviously, for the defense, but the fact is, is that already, there`s been a mistrial. Obviously, what the defense attorney is going to have to do in this circumstance is pick apart the details. None of us like these details, but the attorney there has no choice.

GRACE: Right now, we are switching gears and we are taking you live to Florida, legal battle in court all day over tot mom. From what we understand, tot mom wants her own parents, George and Cindy Anthony, thrown out of court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on!

CINDY ANTHONY: Casey, hold on, sweetheart. Settle down, baby.

CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s letting me speak. You want me to talk, then...

CINDY ANTHONY: All right. I`ll listen.

CASEY ANTHONY: ... give me three seconds to say something.

CINDY ANTHONY: Go, sweetheart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Orlando. Standing by from "People" magazine, Steve Helling. What so many people don`t understand, Steve, is why is tot mom would want her own parents thrown out of the courtroom!

STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: Well, there is some concern because her parents are going to be witnesses in the case, and the defense is worried that them hearing all the other testimony of other witnesses, you know, could end up being a problem.

GRACE: A problem for who? Don`t you think, Steve Helling, it`s more likely that she doesn`t want her parents to hear all the evidence because then they would know she`s guilty, too?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First one piece, then two, then three so that no breath was possible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The charges against you are first degree murder...

CINDY ANTHONY: She is not a murderer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter of a child...

CINDY ANTHONY: She loves that child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... four counts of providing false information to a law enforcement officer...

CASEY ANTHONY: I purposely misled you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so you purposely misled us. So that was a lie.

CASEY ANTHONY: That was a lie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The duct tape over the face, the sticker over the mouth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First one piece, then two, then three so that no breath was possible.

CASEY ANTHONY: I spent the day almost completely by myself.

CINDY ANTHONY: I love her and I support her.

CASEY ANTHONY: Just completely and utterly miserable!

The only way they`re going to find Caylee is if they actually listen to what I`m saying.

I gave them things (ph) multiple times.

Nobody`s (EXPLETIVE DELETED) listening to anything that I`m saying. I`m trying to help them.

I need to be looked at as a victim.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sure she sees herself as the victim, but that`s the same denial she`s been in from the very beginning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. I want to go right back to our reporters down in Orlando standing by. First to Robyn Walensky with WDBO. Robyn, what many of us don`t understand is why tot mom wants her own parents thrown out of the courtroom.

ROBYN WALENKSY, WDBO RADIO: You know, Nancy, this is just stunning. We really don`t know -- how do you get into this woman`s mind? We don`t know what her -- she`s thinking. And Casey`s mom has said that she wants to visit with her before jury selection starts, and she is going to be allowed to visit her daughter Saturday morning at 9:00 AM in the jail. But it is unclear if Casey is going to agree to this, to see her parents. I mean, her parents have lost their granddaughter, their 2-year-old beautiful little daughter -- granddaughter, Caylee. And now their daughter -- this is a death penalty case. So obviously, Mom and Dad would love to see and speak to their daughter. Why she might be refusing just remains a stunning development.

GRACE: Joining me right now, Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer, who`s been on the story from very, very beginning. Ellie, a lot on the table. You`ve got tot mom trying to throw her mother and father out of the courtroom. Now the defense has come up with some cockamamie story about, Oh, we don`t want their testimony tainted by what they hear other witnesses say. BS! Each side would love their own witnesses to be in the courtroom to hear the other testimony. It would be like a preview for them, and they can actually tailor their testimony to more help the side they`re testifying for. So that doesn`t even make sense.

So what`s your theory on why tot mom doesn`t want her own parents in the courtroom? They`ve actually filed a motion, Ellie, to throw them out!

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. And there seems to be some sort of disconnect between the tot mom`s attorneys and the attorney for her parents. It seems like they`re not communicating at this point because, as you know, George and Cindy specifically have asked the judge to exempt them from this rule of sequestration. They want to be there. They say they`re Caylee`s next of kin. They want to be in court.

So I don`t under why they`re -- now the defense is trying to keep them out of the hearing. They`ve been at numerous hearings. They`ve heard the prosecution say that they believes the killer put tape around Caylee`s mouth, gave her chloroform or something else so she couldn`t resist.

GRACE: And also, another blockbuster move today. We find out, Ellie, that one of the key members of the defense team has quit, yet another case of revolving door in tot mom`s defense team, this time a renowned jury consultant. Is that right, Ellie?

JOSTAD: Yes, that`s right. There he is right there, Richard Gabriel. Now, one of our producers actually broke this bit of news. She found out that the defense has been calling several high-profile jury consultants, especially in Florida, asking them to jump in and help them out at the last minute because Richard Gabriel has left the team.

Now, apparently, he was doing this pro bono. He said he could no longer afford to do it, especially not knowing where jury selection is going to be. So he`s off the case. He`s the guy who did that key little bit of a -- it was like a faux jury selection, a mock jury selection for "48 Hours." And he got them to look at some of the case evidence.

GRACE: You`re right, Ellie. This Richard Gabriel, who has just jumped ship, said he couldn`t afford to do it pro bono anymore. But that doesn`t make sense because right now, as it goes to trial, is when he would get all the PR for being on one of the biggest case in the last decade.

Take a listen to what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the only charge was first degree murder, who here, based on everything you`ve heard today plus whatever else you know about this case, would vote to acquit Casey Anthony of first degree murder? Please stand up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That is from CBS "48 Hours," and there you saw Gabriel working with a mock jury, who, PS, acquitted her of murder one.

Straight out to Robert Hirschhorn, renowned jury consultant himself. Robert, we have been told a lot of jury consultants were contacted to take Gabriel`s place. Were you contacted?

ROBERT HIRSCHHORN, JURY CONSULTANT (via telephone): In fact, I was, Nancy. Great to be back on your show. For a jury consultant to walk out on the defense on the eve of trial is unconscionable. He knew going into this that it was a pro bono case. He knew going into it it was a death penalty case. Jury consultants that do that kind of work realize that those -- the jury selection takes anywhere from a week to a month. He knew going into it. He got the benefit of the publicity, but he didn`t want to do the work. Shame on him for walking out on the eve of trial.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey, do you still think you`re an unfit mother?

CASEY ANTHONY: I truly, truly love that little girl and miss her so much!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s hard for me to accept that she would do anything to Caylee.

CASEY ANTHONY: I want to see that little girl. I want to hear Caylee laugh. I want to be with my baby!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Mom has thrown at my face many times before that I`m an unfit mother."

CINDY ANTHONY: I`ve never seen her be a bad mom. She`s -- she loves her daughter.

CASEY ANTHONY: Mommy loves her very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Today, blockbuster day in court as we wait to find out what`s going to become of the location of the trial. We know that the defense has rejected every location for jury selection that the judge has offered, tot mom trying to have her own parents, Caylee`s grandparents, thrown out of the courtroom. And another member of the defense team jumps ship.

Straight out to the lines. Arlene in South Carolina. Hi, Arlene.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. By the way, I think having those two kids agrees with you, you know?

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So...

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks for taking my call. I wanted to know about this thing about her father -- is it possible -- I was reading the note on FaceBook. Is it possible that she could try to blame her own father?

GRACE: Oh, Arlene, Arlene, Arlene, it is absolutely possible. Here`s what we know. We know that a lot of evidence regarding George -- grandfather George`s outburst outside of the home where people were getting up in his yard -- remember when all the people were protesting when tot mom got out of jail the first time, and he pushed some of them back? The defense actually called -- made -- put on their witness list some of those people that were witnesses to that incident. Now, what does that have to do with anything, other than to cast aspersions on George Anthony?

What about it, Ellie Jostad?

JOSTAD: Well, you`re right, Nancy. George has had several outbursts. And it was that, the fact that those people were on the witness list, that led people to believe that what the defense might try to do is claim that somebody else did it, and that other person might be Caylee`s grandfather, George Anthony.

GRACE: You`re seeing shots of George right now. And of course, this weekend, tot mom`s mother, Cindy Anthony, wants to visit tot mom behind bars. She also doesn`t want it recorded. No request from George Anthony, a former cop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I can`t even swallow right now, it hurts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony reportedly hyperventilated and doubled over when she learned the remains were found.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the way a normal reaction would be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: Casey Marie Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her life is on the line.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She lost her breath. Her hand started to sweat.

ANTHONY: Can someone -- come on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She knows that this is a death penalty case.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kept saying the chains are getting tighter and tighter.

ANTHONY: I want to let everyone know that I`m sorry for what I did. I take complete and full responsibility for my actions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was some emotional distress. Like she wanted to cry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel extremely guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony breaks down in tears.

ANTHONY: I can`t break down and cry because this isn`t real.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m going to walk away right now.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight Sue Moss New York, Nicole DeBorde, Houston, Peter Elikann in Boston.

Sue Moss, here`s the reality. She doesn`t want her parents in the courtroom because she doesn`t want them to hear all the evidence laid out. Yes, they`ve heard various motions, they`ve been to a lot of the hearings. But she does not want them in the court to hear the whole thing. Everybody always wants their own witnesses there in court.

SUE MOSS, ATTORNEY: Oh, Nancy, I think they are going to turn around and blame these parents. Luckily, neither of them look like Gonzalez. But they have to explain why there was a chloroform search on that home computer.

They have to explain why there were similar type stickers found in the home. They have to explain why the materials that poor little girl was found in could also be found in the home.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa. I can explain all of that in two words. Tot Mom. What else is there to say? What do you mean they`ve got to explain? George and Cindy Anthony don`t have to explain anything.

MOSS: They are trying to make them the patsy for this entire crime.

GRACE: Oh, so, you`re saying that you think they are being ousted from the courtroom by the defense because the defense --

MOSS: Will point the finger.

GRACE: Pursuant to Arlene`s fear -- Arlene in South Carolina -- that they really are going try to became George or Cindy Anthony. Is that what you`re saying?

MOSS: Absolutely. They will point the finger and it`s going to totally backfire.

GRACE: Hold on. Peter Elikann, take off your defense hat. Just a moment, just try to think normally and reasonably, rationally. Do you think that has anything to do with the fact that George Anthony is not seeking to visit Tot Mom this weekend behind bars?

Those two are very close. I know that he loves her. So why would he not want to go see her the weekend before trial? Do you think Sue Moss is on to something?

PETER ELIKANN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYER: Well, no. I think that there`s been a real problem with these visits. I mean, they`ve been recorded -- the visits have been recorded, phone calls have been recorded.

They have been played out to the public every time. That`s why, in the three years she`s been held, they stopped having visits. It just works against her.

GRACE: So? But here`s the deal: If that were the reasoning, Nicole DeBorde, the mother, Cindy, wouldn`t want to visit either. Neither one of them would want to visit if it were going to be used against Tot Mom. So, why Cindy and not George?

NICOLE DEBORDE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, certainly Sue may have a point. On the other hand, it may be as simple as the fact that the defense team truly wants whatever their testimony is going to be in front of that jury be fresh and be without the taint of having seeing the other witnesses testify.

GRACE: Put her up. Nicole --

DEBORDE: Yes? Yes.

GRACE: Why you`re saying that? That doesn`t make any sense.

DEBORDE: Well, I think that it makes sense because if the defense has a point that they are trying to explain that they don`t have some secret plan to try to concoct a defense and that they think this witness`s testimony in front of the jury is going to appear more sincere if they are not sitting in the courtroom it may have some value.

GRACE: OK, Ok. Susan Moss, explain to the viewers why that doesn`t make any sense. Why every attorney wants their witnesses to hear all the evidence?

MOSS: Well, especially in this case. What`s more sympathetic than mommy and daddy sitting there and crying and looking and begging with their eyes for their daughter to be set free?

But, in this case, I think they are going ask questions that are going to lead the jury to be pointed to mom and dad and they are going to freak out.

GRACE: Not only that. We now learn that the defense has complained and objected to every single venue that the judge has thrown out. They have talked about Orange County, obviously. They talked about Orlando. They talked about jurors from Palm Beach, jurors from Miami, jurors from Jacksonville. What`s the problem, Ellie?

ELLIE JOSTAD, EDITORIAL PRODUCER - NANCY GRACE: Well, Nancy, where jury selection is going to be is a big secret right now. At least, for us in the media. But the attorneys have apparently been informed, and the defense is already objecting.

They filed a motion under seal saying they object to this location for jury selection which is supposed to start on Monday. The judge is going to hear that motion.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Angela in Florida.

CALLER: Hi Nancy. Happy Mother`s Day.

GRACE: Thank you. Thank you very much. What`s your question, dear?

CALLER: My question is in regards to her all of a sudden trying to bring her father into this. I`m wondering when is she going get a story and stick with it. Isn`t this something they need to have figured out already? Where they are going in this case. Are they going to be able to keep this on the case? They don`t have go to a whole new trial or anything to bring her father into this?

GRACE: Steve Helling, joining us tonight, writer with "People" magazine, I think the possibility of blaming George Anthony is very, very real. Obviously, George and Cindy Anthony had absolutely nothing to do with this murder. They were the ones who were paying for little Caylee for everything she wore and ate. Everything. They loved her more than life itself.

That`s another whole other psychological can of worms, was Tot Mom actually jealous of her daughter? But there`s no way that they would have touched a hair on Caylee`s head. But I think it`s a very real possibility that the defense does blame George Anthony, hence he`s not visiting her this weekend not even trying to.

That the witnesses against him from that bru-ha-ha in the front yard are on the subpoena list for the defense. But I think that it`s going to be mixed in with a lot of other people. Former boyfriends, former fiances, who knows? Drug traffickers.

Who knows who is going to get blamed in this case? By the end of it, George Anthony will be one in a cast of possible culprits.

STEVE HELLING, AUTHOR, JOURNALIST: Well, absolutely. What they are trying to do is show that Casey couldn`t have done it because someone else did it. Whether that`s George, whether that`s the meter reader, a boyfriend, whether that`s you or I, Nancy, it doesn`t really matter to them as long as the fingers don`t point at Casey.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Jennifer in California. Hi, Jennifer.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy, thanks for taking my call.

GRACE: Yes, thank you for calling in, dear. What`s your question?

CALLER: Two quick questions. I want to know if we are aware of why the consultant quit the defense team and if the media will be allowed to cover jury selection process?

GRACE: Good question. To Robert Hirschshorn, jury consultant -- renowned jury consultant as a matter of fact. He has been a consultant on very high-profile cases. Robert, what are some of the high-profile cases you have consulted on?

ROBERT HIRSCHSHORN, ATTORNEY AND JURY CONSULTANT: Sure. William Kennedy Smith which resulted in a not guilty verdict. United States Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson -- that resulted in a not guilty verdict. You`ll be happy to hear, Nancy, I helped the prosecution in the Whitewater case that resulted in the guilty verdict. So I`ve been --

GRACE: You got quite the resume. So, why would a jury consultant walk off the case?

HIRSCHSHORN: Wow. That`s really the $64,000 question. Because, I just think it`s unconscionable. It`s kind of like -- I want you to imagine you`re going in for surgery. In the middle of the procedure, the doctor decides I`m not getting paid and this is going to take a long time, so I`m not going to do your surgery. The idea that he would walk off is just horrific on the eve of trial.

They called me. I was unavailable to help. I got a call on Thursday. With my schedule, it just would have been impossible. In terms of the jury selection, my understanding is that cameras will be in the courtroom during jury selection when we did the William Kennedy Smith case.

GRACE: I agree with you, Robert, because in the Florida jurisdiction, you got to really show why the cameras shouldn`t be in there as opposed to other jurisdictions that are more secretive and you`ve got to argue for the camera to be allowed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony is public enemy number one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sorry. I`ve helped in every possible way I can since the day I got here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re talking about three-year-old little girl.

I need to find her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart. You`re not telling me where she`s at.

ANTHONY: Because I don`t [ bleep ] at. Are you kidding me?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car? Full of maggots. It stunk so bad.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband was a deputy Sheriff years ago. And the first thing he thought was human decomposition. I`m a nurse, I thought human decomposition.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is not a murderer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no evidence that Casey has ever done any harm to her child.

ANTHONY: I, as a mom, I know in my gut, a feeling as a parent, know certain things about your child you can feel that connection, and I still have that feeling ever presence. I know she`s alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got within three feet of my daughter`s car and --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Every one of those videotapes of Tot Mom talking to detectives, primping and preening, adjusting her shirt and bra and makeup and hair while the detective would be out of the room, all of that is going to come before this jury. We are taking your calls.

At the end of court today, we learned that Jose Baez, Tot Mom`s defense attorney, withdrew his last objection to change of venue to the location in which the jury is going to be selected.

Peter Elikann, this is the way it works. They`re not going to take, apparently, the whole trial to another jurisdiction. They will go select a jury in another jurisdiction and bus them into Orlando. Do you think that`s how it is going to work?

ELIKANN: Yes, it is. And it`s certainly going to be difficult. These people -- not only are they going to be isolated -- possibly for months in a hotel room with no TV, no internet, or anything like that. They are really going to be out of their communities. It`s a going to be a huge strain on the jury. But what you`re going to do?

GRACE: Well, I guess it`s a decision between a trial that`s deemed unfair and reversed on appeal, dislocating all the witnesses on both sides, the judge`s staff, the judge, all that. Or inconveniencing about 20 people. We understand they will pick 12 jurors and eight alternates.

That is the most frugal and efficient way for this trial to go down. To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, who once bailed Tot Mom out of jail the first time on bad checks and forgery.

Joining us tonight out of Sacramento -- Tot Mom breaks down in court again. This is only the third time she`s cried. Well, she cry when she heard the district attorney detailing their scenario about how the baby died -- what they believe she, Tot Mom, did.

The other time was when her own mother took the stand. And then, the other day, the trial judge was talking about if she could get a fair trial and referred to the O.J. Simpson double murder trial -- she started crying. It always seems to be when she is the topic of discussion, she starts crying, Leonard Padilla.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: That`s correct, because the ten days that we were in Florida, there was nothing there that made her cry. She never once shed a tear. She never brought up the name of her daughter. But when she`s on, you might say, when she`s the star, you can see that she, she really comes out with tears.

But, let me go back on something that you brought up earlier about George being blamed for the child`s death. I think what`s going to happen is the defense is going to go towards a direction where the child was in the pool the night that she was having that argument with her mother and the distraction -- the child drowned.

She went out there, picked her up, put her to bed, dressed her in the morning, walked out, and she`s going to claim some type of disconnection with reality for the next 31 days. I think that`s the way it`s going to go. That`s why she don`t want her parents in the room to hear other testimony to where they can relocate themselves as to that argument that night.

GRACE: What do you think about that, Ellie?

JOSTAD: Well, I guess it`s possible. I mean, we had heard before that George and Cindy said that the gate was open to the pool area, the ladder was not in the usual spot. So, this has always been floating around, that there could have been a drowning in the pool.

GRACE: But, how will that play with a jury? Paula Bloom, clinical psychologist, joining us tonight. Paula, because, like Padilla said and the state can call her if they want to on rebuttal. She didn`t cry the whole time she was out on those bad check charges.

She never went out looking for her child. Never went out putting up posters, nothing. And the whole time in that home -- and the bail team was in there almost the entire time, 24/7, -- she never broke down and cried about her child.

DR. PAULA BLOOM, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, this is really interesting. It doesn`t look good. Let`s talk a little bit about crying. You can have very real tears about your fear --

GRACE: You know what, Paula Bloom? You know what? When I leave children when they go to play school, you know, go -- they alternate but lately it`s been John David doesn`t want me to leave and he cries, and he cries, he pulls on my T-shirt. And I have to -- and I go into hall and I want to cry. I almost feel sick when I hear him crying. This Tot Mom didn`t break down and cry one time.

BLOOM: Well, here`s the thing, though. She has been having some tears. And what I was going to say is, you can cry about the fear of your future, what`s going to happen to her as far as the case. And nobody knows am I crying about my future? Or am I crying about the fact that my child is no longer here?

GRACE: To detective lieutenant Stephen Rogers, former member FBI, joint terrorism task force, Nutley P.D. Detective, how many times have you interviewed a defendant or seen them on the stand and they always start crying when it comes down to saving their own skin?

STEPHEN ROGERS, POLICE DETECTIVE LIEUTENANT, FORMER MEMBER FBI JOINT TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Dozens of times. Look, this woman, this suspect did not cry -- shed one tear during the whole scenario when the focus of attention was on the child. Now, because reality is setting in and she may go to prison for a long time, she`s going to shed a lot of tears.

GRACE: Also, everybody, very quickly, I want to go back to Robin Walensky with WDBO. You spoke with Baez. Do you really think he`s ready for trial? Is he going to pull a fast one? I mean, what, how many years have passed now since Caylee went missing? Is he going to say, "Oh, I`m not ready." come Monday morning?

ROBIN WALENSKY, REPORTER WDBO: Well, you know what, Nancy, it`s been three long years. He made a very rare public appearance at a Hispanic journalist breakfast that I attended. Most of it was question and answer, Q and A in Spanish, but some of it was in English.

And we were able to ask him that very question. He said quote "I`m relaxed and ready to go". So, by all appearances he seemed very calm, ready to go, that this thing, jury selection is supposed to get under way on Monday at the undisclosed location. So, by appearances he looked like he was ready.

GRACE: A word to the wise. Undisclosed. All you got to do is watch the jailhouse bus when they take Tot Mom out of the jail and follow it straight to the courthouse for jury selection.

Everyone, right now, CNN heroes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When a disaster strikes, you don`t really know what you`re going to need. That`s why we`ve packaged up four tractor- trailers loaded with every type of tool and gear and piece of equipment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got the generator running. We`re going power up this church.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We roll those rigs all across this country. We decided to come to rainbow, Georgia because it`s a small community and most likely they didn`t have the resources that they would need.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All these homes were completely destroyed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My team has been to about 38 mega storms at this point, but never seen anything like this before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s all gone. It`s almost like the whole city went through a blender.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we first got here, we started powering up the shelter, clearing the roads, and we wanted to just help stabilize the situation.

We`ll have him come straight in and grab these trees right off of these two stones right here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They went over and cleared the cemetery. That`s why I`m able to bury my father today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to keep working until this is done.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He then came over and offered his services again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just joined with the family members on our hands and knees looking for things.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More photos in here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We found a wedding picture of my dad and mom. These guys are angels. Thank you so much for you and your team.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we see people that are really suffering and struggling, it`s our responsibility to come and to help. This is part of being human. To see a need and to do something about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: What a week for Lady Justice and for our country. Take a look at the stories and more important, the people, who touched our lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our office was moved up into the 80s. That`s when the plane crashed. Some of them got out. Some of them didn`t.

GEORGE BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT: Wanted dead or alive.

BARAK OBAMA, UNITED STATES PRESIDENT: They killed Osama bin laden.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Almost ten long years later, some justice is finally delivered.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some justice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Osama bin laden is dead.

GROUP: Hey, good-bye.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cannon Fitzgerald lost 658 people including my brother, Gary.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just said, "I want to let you all know that I love you very, very much, in case I don`t see you again".

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said that --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That the plane has been taken over by hijackers and then I said, well, we love you very much, too, Martin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What a wonderful thing that is, to make people laugh. He did that. Did it so well.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is impossible to think of her as gone, and I think it will take a long time for me to absorb that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With Al Qaeda decapitated, experts believe this is now a terror network in crisis.

OBAMA: The terrorist who is responsible for the murder of thousands of innocent men, women and children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Michael Robert --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My son`s not going to walk back in the room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The rest of the word hears you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell us what happened over there, if anybody got out, if anyone made it, please call us. We`re looking for her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To see the names today when we are so grateful that Osama Bin laden has been killed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s good to see an evil person receive justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Marine Sergeant Matthew Fenton, 24, Little Ferry, New Jersey. Killed, Iraq. Awarded Purple Heart, Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal. New Jersey Distinguished Service Medal.

The center of attention. Loved to laugh. Reading about different religions. Poker. Dreamed of playing in the World Poker Tournament. Favorite music, Jack Johnson, OAR, and Frank Sinatra. Leaves behind mother, Diane, sister, Courtney. Matthew Fenton, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you, and a special good night from the New York control room. Good night, Brett, Liz. Who else is there? Dana and there`s squeaky. And to all of you mothers out there, those are the sweetest words I`ve ever heard, happy mother`s day. Everyone, I`ll see you Monday night, 8:00 sharp eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END