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Nancy Grace
Entire Casey Anthony Jury Pool Dismissed for Discussing Case
Aired May 10, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the search for a 2-year- old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash!
With the murder trial of tot mom Casey Anthony under way, bombshell tonight. Tot mom feuds with her lead defense attorney, Jose Baez, in court, and it`s caught on tape, Baez warning tot mom she`s, quote, "acting like a 2-year-old." Courtroom microphones catch his words. Tot mom then freezes her own lawyer out, refusing to sit next to Baez in court, while at the same time she does a complete 180. Just yesterday, tot mom turns on the waterworks in front of the jury panel, crying, looking sad, miserable. But today, tot mom walks in smiling, laughing, at ease, projecting a whole new image. Was it all just an act in front of the jury?
This as the judge throws out today`s entire jury pool after he learns dozens of jurors in a private room discussing how tot mom murdered her daughter, jurors dropping like flies, admitting they believe tot mom`s guilty and saying the case is just too upsetting. As the judge vows to call in jurors over the weekend, tot mom`s nervous quirks emerge in front of the jury.
With tot mom getting preferential treatment behind bars, George and Cindy no-shows in court again. Tot mom`s defense vows he will answer three years of questions about tot mom`s bizarre behavior in just the first three minutes of his opening statement. This as word leaks tot mom will take the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: State of Florida versus Casey Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey partying it up.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Hey! Guess what? That happened to me!
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Really?
CASEY ANTHONY: Really.
BAEZ: You`re acting like a 2-year-old.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: She`s not a cold, callous person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant`s guilt or innocence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The going out, the partying, kissing the American flag, that`s from (INAUDIBLE) party.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Regardless of the coverage.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: I believe that there`s something dead back there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... whether it`s Nancy Grace or anyone else...
GEORGE ANTHONY: I think I whispered out to myself, Please don`t let this be my Caylee.
CASEY ANTHONY: Stuff that`s being said has been completely, completely fabricated.
GEORGE ANTHONY: I know my daughter`s not leveling with me. And I know what she`s done in the past.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said to me, Jose, I`m innocent. I`m going to walk out of this place with my head high.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Tot mom, Casey Anthony, feuds with her lead defense attorney, Jose Baez, in court, and it`s caught on tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you formed an opinion concerning the defendant`s guilt or innocence?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guilty.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`ll take this as far as I need to to prove my innocence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve just seen a lot of coverage on this.
CASEY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) are only getting their information from Nancy Graces.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nancy Grace.
CASEY ANTHONY: Are you kidding me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you go on the Internet and look up anything about this case?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judge, Casey Anthony...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excused. We`re going to let you go home.
CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s (EXPLETIVE DELETED) listening to anything that I`m saying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not to read, watch or listen to any news accounts.
CASEY ANTHONY: My daughter has been missing for the last 31 days.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She knows what she did.
CASEY ANTHONY: I ate cole slaw today. Tell him I ate cole slaw.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The witness is a potential juror and spoils (ph) 50 jurors!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eliminate the panel. I`ll let you go and return back to the central jury room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live and taking your calls. Straight down to Clearwater, Florida, standing by there at the courthouse, from "In Session," Jean Casarez. Jean, what happened in court today? Explain to me about the feud caught on tape between tot mom and her lead defense attorney, Jose Baez.
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy the courthouse is in charge of the audio in the courtroom, and so what Mr. Baez was alleging in court was that some of this audio was streaming out over the Internet. And after that, the attorneys` microphones were shut off. So for the rest of the day, we really couldn`t hear the objections that they were having to the jurors. But that`s what apparently was caught on tape.
GRACE: OK. Let`s see exactly the small bit of it that we`ve got right now. Let`s see it, Liz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: Really?
CASEY ANTHONY: Really.
BAEZ: You`re acting like a 2-year-old.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Shortly after that, the microphone`s cut off. We hear Jose Baez, her lead defense attorney, state, "You`re acting like a 2-year-old." And remember, this is veiled. They know they`re in front of a jury panel. They know they`re in front of the courtroom.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Mark Nejame, attorney for Texas Equusearch, former attorney for George and Cindy Anthony, the grandparents. High-profile lawyer out of Seattle Anne Bremner also joining us.
First to you, Mark Nejame. Any seasoned lawyer knows not to talk out loud at the counsel table!
MARK NEJAME, ATTORNEY FOR TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: Well, of course, and it shows he`s not a seasoned lawyer. I mean, he`s been practicing a relatively short period of time. And it`s -- you know, criminal law 101, you be careful. And obviously, he wasn`t being careful and didn`t pay attention to it.
GRACE: Well, hey, you know what? It goes beyond that. You don`t even have to be a seasoned lawyer, Anne Bremner. I assume you like sports. Haven`t you ever seen on the weekend -- I mean, even on a -- baseball players, they hold their -- they hold their glove up.
ANNE BREMNER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Right.
GRACE: You know, for Pete`s sake! I recall every trial I ever had, and I would be talking to my lead investigator, who was the only one that would sit with me in trial. I wouldn`t speak to him out loud.
BREMNER: Right.
GRACE: We would write notes. We would write notes! And if I had to speak to him, it was by whisper and you cover your mouth. You don`t want the other side to hear what you`re saying, much less the jury pool!
BREMNER: I know. You don`t say "You`re acting like a 2-year-old," especially when she`s accused of killing a 2-year-old. I always say, Write me a note, write it down. You know, Michael Jackson`s trial -- Michael never talked to his lawyer, Tom Mesereau, in court. I mean, you just -- you just don`t have that happen. And so you make sure that there`s a legal pad in between you so you can communicate. But not in front of the jury. But now it`s out in front of God and everybody on the Internet, so it`s just compounded.
GRACE: And not only that, Anne Bremer, I wouldn`t even say the words "write it down." I would out a pen and go...
BREMNER: That`s right. It -- exactly, Nancy. I would go, like -- I would (INAUDIBLE) just write it down very quietly.
GRACE: Anyway, so long story short, now the jury and others -- it`s all over YouTube now, and apparently, everybody in the courtroom saw more than what was captured. She turns around and taps him, and they`re having a tiff in court. Wonder what that was about.
To Steve Helling, writer with "People" magazine. Once again, George and Cindy Anthony no-shows in the courtroom. Why?
STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE": Well, you know, we saw that Cindy actually tried to visit Casey in court over the weekend and was turned down. So we don`t know what`s going on between George and Cindy and Casey at this moment. But one thing we know is that they`re not communicating with each other.
GRACE: Well, we know that. We know they`re not in court, which is a big, big no-no trial-strategy-wise. We are taking your calls live tonight. To Jennifer in South Carolina. Hi, Jennifer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a pleasure to talk to you. I`ve been trying and trying and trying. And (INAUDIBLE) You have beautiful children. You are so blessed.
GRACE: Well, I got to tell you something. I really appreciate that. I consider them gifts from God. They`re miracle babies. And the thought that somebody would do this to their own child is beyond me. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Me, too. My daughter -- I actually named my daughter Caylee after Caylee Marie Anthony. But my question is, the lady from Equusearch that talked to the jurors and poisoned the jurors -- how come she wasn`t cited for contempt of court? Isn`t that contempt of court whenever she -- whenever you, you know, like, poison the jurors like that?
GRACE: You know what? I couldn`t -- someone`s talking in my ear. I couldn`t make out your actual question. Is what contempt of court?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whenever she was talking to the jurors about the case while they were back there waiting to be called.
GRACE: Oh, OK. Are you talking about when one of the jurors was talking to the other jurors about the case?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, the lady from Equusearch.
GRACE: Yes. Let me tell you, she is one of the jurors, which is so ironic, Jennifer. OK, this is what happened today. It`s my understanding -- Jean Casarez, correct me if I`m wrong. From what I understand, one of the potential jurors was connected to Texas Equusearch and was back there and discussed part of the case. And there were somewhere between two dozen and 30 jurors in a private room somewhere in a holding area, and they all started talking about how tot mom killed her daughter. Is that what happened, Jean? So the whole panel gets thrown out!
CASAREZ: And the judge got wind of it. And so that`s how 50 jurors, right when they walked into the courtroom, walked out because they were dismissed.
GRACE: Also -- and tonight, we`ve got a body language expert with us, Patty Wood (ph) -- the preening and the quirks and the lining up the pencils and the pens and the paper, the putting a coaster and napkin underneath the glasses on table -- it`s all starting to emerge.
Liz -- take a look at this four-box we`ve got going on for you. Check out the preening. There she -- on the top right, that`s as she was about to be questioned by the detectives. She`s caught on camera. All the others are in court -- fixing the hair, looking at her nails, adjusting her shirt. And today -- keep that up, Liz -- today it went beyond that, Patty Wood, to actually rearranging everything on the table, putting neatly folded-up napkins underneath drinks on the table. It`s not like it`s her grandmother`s mahogany furniture we`re talking about, OK? Patty Wood, weigh in.
PATTY WOOD, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Yes. Absolutely. All that obsessive/compulsive behavior, the self-touch, the preening, that actually affects the nervous system and calms her down. But the other behavior, the straightening of the napkin, all of that gives her control over her environment. She can`t control anything else, but she can control the napkin under the water glass, all of the lining up of the pencils. I can control this. So it shows her desire to be in control.
GRACE: You are seeing shots of tot mom at various stages of this investigation. And in court, there you see the endless wiping of the table. As that indictment is being read, she wipes more and more and more, more straightening, more preening as the facts are slowly coming out in front of this jury. The trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony, under way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I haven`t showered in two days.
CINDY ANTHONY: I still believe my daughter.
GEORGE ANTHONY: I believe in Michigan.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey and her friends had "no clothes" party.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wrapped herself in a flag.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you not watch any television or any news accounts about this case?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First degree murder, aggravated child abuse.
GRACE: Tot mom turns on the waterworks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Potential jurors are being questioned for a second day.
CASEY ANTHONY: She`s smiling and she`s happy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her hands -- she started rubbing them profusely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey didn`t show any obvious emotion as to the loss of a child. She did not cry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever seen her react that way before?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her hair and her hands.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve been staying as positive as I can.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When she was being transported to and from her attorney`s office, going in, coming out, not one tear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t see now anyone could be joking about a case of first degree murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says, I`m such a mess.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Today, a feud between tot mom and her lead defense attorney, Jose Baez, in which he warns her -- and it`s caught on tape -- she`s acting like a 2-year-old. This as the judge throws out today`s entire jury panel after he finds out they`re in a private room discussing how tot mom killed her daughter, jurors dropping like flies as they say they`ve already made up their minds or the case is just too upsetting.
Let`s find out the configuration in the courtroom. Out to Clark Goldband. Explain to me how the courtroom is set up, quickly.
CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: All right, Nancy. Let`s take you inside the courtroom. So first the jurors -- we heard about those jurors all being sent home, Nancy. It started here in the grand jury room. This is behind the courtroom. Then the judge, Belvin Perry, calls them one by one into the courtroom. They sit to the judge`s left, right here. So everyone in the courtroom can see that juror, except for us because the camera is not shooting them.
Once he`s questioned about hardship, that juror is then sent into the chief judge`s conference room over here. Attorneys talk about that juror, if they should stay or go. Then the juror is sent back inside the courtroom, they`re told what happens. And that`s the procedure, Nancy, inside the courtroom.
GRACE: So they`re looking -- to you, Natisha Lance. They`re looking at tot mom head on as they`re being questioned, right?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: They are looking at Casey Anthony as they`re being questioned. And that was one of the other things with these 50 jurors who were brought in today, Nancy. Several of them, when they came into the courtroom, they looked at Casey Anthony and there was immediate recognition that, Oh, this is the Casey Anthony trial. And as we know now, they were just talking about the case behind those closed doors.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Michael in Michigan. Hi, Michael.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you? I watch your show every night. And I just want to say that...
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... you know, you`re just -- you`re a godsend to America and to the world, and I just love your show. My question to you is, how long do you think it`s going to take to get a fair jury in here to go ahead and convict her? She walks into this courtroom like she`s some type of celebrity. This is ridiculous...
GRACE: Well, I got to tell you...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... smiling at everybody...
GRACE: ... Michael. You know, Liz, I know it goes way back, but see if you can pull up the video of tot mom walking through the crowds and in and out of the courthouse in her sunglasses, you know, like she`s a movie star. Not to knock sunglasses, but the whole -- you`ll see what I mean when I play it back, Michael in Michigan.
How long will it take to get a jury? Well, the judge started off saying it was going to take a week. At the get-go, I said, It`s not going to take a week. It`s going to take a lot longer than a week because one screw-up on that jury, and you`re going to be retrying this case after an appeal, if there`s a conviction.
I`m anticipating -- because this judge is a real worker bee -- we might have a jury in about two weeks, two weeks from Monday.
Let`s go back to the lawyers and answer Michael in Michigan`s question. Mark Nejame out of Orlando, Anne Bremner, high-profile lawyer, Seattle, and joining us, high-profile jury consultant out of LA, has consulted on many, many big case, Jo-Ellan Dimitrius is joining us tonight.
What about it, Jo-Ellan? How long to strike this jury?
JO-ELLAN DIMITRIUS, JURY CONSULTANT: Nancy, I totally agree with you. I think it`s going to be at least two more weeks before we see a jury because once they finish up the hardship component, then they have to go through the death qualification component and other issues related to publicity. And I just don`t see this happening because now the secret`s out. The jurors know that if they`re being called in for jury duty in Clearwater this week or next week, guess what? They`re probably going to be serving on this case.
GRACE: What about it, Mark Nejame? How long?
NEJAME: Yes, two weeks if you`re lucky. Three weeks if it goes relatively smooth. And it could last longer than that. But I think three weeks is probably a best guess. Although this judge works his fanny off. So he`s going push it.
GRACE: He really does, Mark. And he`s talking about working on Saturday, as well. You know, Anne Bremner, in a typical murder case, you`re looking at a week to two weeks to strike a jury.
BREMNER: Right.
GRACE: Now, with one defendant, it may be less, but with this fleet of lawyers, it always takes longer. The more lawyers you have...
BREMNER: Right.
GRACE: ... you can add on a couple of days per lawyer, Anne Bremner.
BREMNER: Easy. I mean, lawyers love to talk and then talk some more. I watched the Michael Jackson trial. That took weeks. But lots of lawyers, lots of days.
GRACE: So long story short, maybe by the end of next week we`re looking at a jury. Tot mom, Casey Anthony, finally, three years nearly to the date her daughter goes missing, June 16th, trial is under way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey seemed to be asking you here if you want her to bring "the little snothead."
CASEY ANTHONY: Whether I`m still stuck in here or not, I don`t care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You believe that when she -- when she`s referring to "the little snothead" here...
CASEY ANTHONY: I just want her back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... (INAUDIBLE) her daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911. What`s your emergency?
CASEY ANTHONY: My daughter`s been missing for the last 31 days.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have the right to remain silent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are about to begin jury selection in the case of state of Florida versus...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Marie Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything you say will be used in court as evidence against you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her life is on the line.
CINDY ANTHONY: I do not believe that my daughter did any harm to her child.
CASEY ANTHONY: I know in my gut we will be with her again.
CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter has been nothing bath loving mother.
CASEY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) extremely guilty -- guilty -- guilty...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Jean Casarez, standing by at the courthouse, Clearwater, Florida. Jean, she did a 180, an about-face. Yesterday, she`s in court crying, looking miserable, looking down, red- nosed, just looking absolutely dejected. Today, she comes in smiling, laughing like, you know, she`s Miss Sweet Potato, she`s queen of the courthouse. What the hay?
CASAREZ: Well, yesterday, the indictment was read. Yesterday, there was specific language, what prosecutors allege she did. Today, there was no reading of the indictment. But tomorrow more jurors are coming. And Nancy, I got to show you, with all these new jurors, they`re going to read the newspaper headlines before they walk into here. Look at this, "Picking from Pinellas." That`s one newspaper, and the other one, "Wanted."
GRACE: Oh, yes. Yes, that`s another question the judge`s going to have to ask all these potential jurors, Have you been reading the newspaper? But you can`t tell me, if you can get a jury in the O.J. Simpson case, that you can`t get a jury in this case. What about it, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: Well, that`s a good question. But Nancy, the emotional volatility of everyone in this case -- I think it`s going to create challenges, those 41 (ph) days.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Casey Anthony faces jurors on day two of jury selection.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No change in her everyday demeanor at all.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: Wow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You would think that a mother would, you know, break down at some point.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: Good morning, beautiful. I love you.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Judge Perry continues to question prospective jurors.
G. ANTHONY: Hey, gorgeous. How are you doing?
CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t want to hear any of this media bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Yesterday only 21 of the 66 possible jurors called made the cut.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She always seemed like she had a smile on her face. You know if there was laundry to be done, she would take care of that.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It is indeed slow going.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you were selected to serve on this jury --
CASEY ANTHONY: My head is going to explode.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- would it impose a hardship upon you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She may be excused.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They will get a jury, but it`s not going to be easy.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls.
Now for those of you just joining us today bombshell headlines. Tot mom gets into a feud with her lead defense attorney Jose Baez in court in front of the jurors, and it`s all caught on tape.
It is overheard Baez warning her, scolding her she`s acting like a 2- year-old. And they go back and forth. After that she freezes her lead defense attorney out in the court refusing to sit near him for the rest of the day.
This as the judge throws out the entire jury pool for today. That`s a major, major big deal in courtroom strategy. He, the judge, learns that many of the jurors, 24 to 30 of them, in a separate room discussing how tot mom killed her daughter. They can`t sit on the jury after that. So he`s starting at square one tomorrow morning vowing to work over the weekend.
Before I go back out to the calls, Jean Casarez, I`ve noticed a trend. Tot mom does a 180 from her appearance yesterday and today in front of that jury. It`s all a big act according to some court watchers.
But take a look at her evolving image from when she started to today. How she has changed over the months and how she now looks in court.
Describe her, Jean Casarez.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": She`s amazingly changed. Yes, she`s older, but she is so cognizant of her appearance but yesterday, Nancy what she had on yesterday was a blue sweater, sort of like a cashmere type with beadwork on it, something very, very motherly. Today back to the shirt, but she`s very careful of her appearance and she`s got makeup on.
GRACE: Yes. That is apparent. But it`s not overdone, Jean. It`s very understated. It`s like she`s an ad for Ann Taylor. Have you noticed that?
CASAREZ: Yes. Yes. Very, very much so. And she cares about her posture. She cares about her clothes. And it will be very interesting to see what she wears during the trial.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Liz, how did that picture get into the middle of the scroll? This is a sharp contrast from the real tot mom, the one she doesn`t want the jury to see.
To Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, it`s almost like the three faces of eve.
DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, it is. But don`t forget, she`s extremely narcissistic and thinks she can convince anybody to believe what she wants them to believe. So she`ll act. Now she`s presenting the just down-home girl who couldn`t have done anything bad because look how innocent she is. It won`t wash.
GRACE: Let`s go back to the scroll of her in court, Liz, as much as I know you love showing the stripper pole pictures.
To Patty Wood, body language expert, joining us tonight.
Patty, what do you make? You`re looking at her demeanor. What she is now projecting in front of a jury panel. What do you see?
PATTY WOOD, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Really a difference. How her hair is away and how she adjust that pony tail in that preening gesture to make herself look good. I can control how people think of me. If I look good people will think I`m a good person. And all that obsessive behavior. The comfort cues, the blocking, the covering of the mouth to mask how she really is inside.
GRACE: And to you, Dr. Leslie Austin, what do you make of the almost compulsive behavior in court?
Let`s see that video again where she`s cleaning -- the more they talk in court the more she cleans the table. The more she rearranges her hair, the more she pulls it back off of her face. The more she rubs her hands together, picks at her lips, count the Kleenex.
It goes on and on, Leslie. What is it?
AUSTIN: Right. We`ll she`s entirely self-absorbed. This body language analysis we heard is spot on. She`s very anxious. These are ways to release her tension and trying to control her world. And show look, I`m in charge. I`ve got it going here. I`m OK. But it -- showing anxious behavior.
GRACE: Joining us tonight a special guest, a sequestered Scott Peterson juror, and co-author of "We, the Jury: Deciding the Fate of Scott Peterson."
Mike Belmessieri is with us.
Mike, thank you for being with us.
MIKE BELMESSIERI, SEQUESTERED SCOTT PETERSON JUROR, CO-AUTHOR OF "WE, THE JURY: DECIDING THE FATE OF SCOTT PETERSON": My pleasure, Miss Grace. It`s finally nice to hear from a person who played a part in the early part of our trial, as you may remember. It was Justin Falconer who had a problem with something that you`d said on the air and made a big deal out of it which actually -- ended him being removed from the jury. So good to finally talk to you.
GRACE: Yes, yes, yes. You know that`s certainly a blast from the past. Justin Falconer. I remember him. I remember him very distinctly.
BELMESSIERI: Yes, it`s very disappointing. I mean I would love to have a nice blonde -- nice looking blonde lady talk about me. I mean I was overlooked. Anyway --
GRACE: You were not overlooked. I promise you.
Mike, you know, your last name, Belmessieri, right? Belmessieri.
BELMESSIERI: Belmessieri, right. Good Irish name.
GRACE: What do you make -- what do you make of these jurors, before they can even get on the jury they are thrown off the jury. The judge catches them talking, you know, coincidentally a woman that`s connected to EquuSearch. She came to look for Caylee Anthony. She`s back there as called as a potential juror. And she`s talking with them about her involvement in the case. And they start talking about how the tot mom killed her daughter.
BELMESSIERI: You know, there ought to be a law. It`s wrong, you know -- at this point in time, you know, going through the jury selection nobody should reach any conclusions at all as to the innocence or guilt, I`m sorry, as to the guilt of the accused.
This person is innocent. And until you see the evidence and say it`s otherwise no decision should be made. We don`t know what the end result is. We haven`t seen all the evidence in this trial.
Much like Scott Peterson, none of us had any evidence the day we were chose. All we heard was various reports that you couldn`t escape in some areas about what was going on. Jurors --
GRACE: Let me ask you a question, Mike.
BELMESSIERI: Yes.
GRACE: We`re talking about tot mom`s appearance in court? Not so much the way she looks because you know, Scott Peterson, a lot of women -- not me, but a lot of women thought Scott Peterson was very attractive and kind of a jock, football confident kind of way.
I`ll never forget him and his defense attorney strutting into court every day. I just watch him going on, mm-hmm, come on.
BELMESSIERI: Yes.
GRACE: And it`s not so much the physical attributes of him being attractive or not but the demeanor. The demeanor in court. Does that demeanor of a defendant affect a juror as you watch them day in and day out?
BELMESSIERI: I will say that it didn`t affect me. You know, until after there was enough evidence to begin to sort of put things together when we entered deliberations. And we start putting that together. Then thinking in the back as to what I saw in the courtroom then it affected me. But --
GRACE: That makes sense.
BELMESSIERI: You know, I mean, yes, you know, I -- you know, jurors, we have -- as jurors we have an awesome responsibility. A huge responsibility. I mean, you know, and it`s one that can`t be taken lightly and it`s one that we shouldn`t rush to judgment over.
We need to listen to what is being said in the courtroom. We need to listen to the -- and weigh the evidence.
GRACE: You know, Mike, you are so right and I just can`t believe that this bunch of jurors have been thrown out before they could ever even get in.
Let me ask you another question. What was it like to be sequestered away from home? These jurors are going to be about two hours away from home. They`re only going to get supervised visits about once a week with their family. What`s that like?
BELMESSIERI: Well, we never had supervised visits. So it would have been nice.
GRACE: Yes.
BELMESSIERI: And we were at 5 1/2 months in trial. Two weeks on -- I`ve forgotten more about this case than I remember. It`s been almost -- going on six years. A lot has happened during that time. But we were sequestered, we were put into a hotel at Crown Colony Hotel, Holiday Inn, on a floor in which we had sheriff`s deputies guarding us the entire time.
The only people who were allowed on that floor when we were there were the people who were serving us our dinner. We had no contact.
GRACE: Well, you know, it`s funny that you said -- Mike, we`re going to break. But I don`t want you to go anywhere. But Mike, you said I only remember Justin Falconer. I remember you. I remember you sitting in the jury box because I would look at each one of the jurors and study them the way you were watching the testimony. I remember you sitting there like it was yesterday.
BELMESSIERI: Yes. Well, it was a long trial. A long time ago.
COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why did she wait a month to report her daughter missing?
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: That question will be answered within the first minute of me standing up for opening statements.
G. ANTHONY: I believe something was placed in the back of that trunk.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Casey reacted by saying several people borrowed my car in the past.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Casey, why did you wait four months to say that you want to look for Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She needs to start talking. This has been, what, 60 days now? It`s a joke.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: I feel like we`ve lost four months of precious time.
CASEY ANTHONY: There wasn`t a purpose whatsoever to come up here.
SGT. JOHN ALLEN, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: So we`re wasting time, valuable time that we ought to be spending looking for your daughter.
CINDY ANTHONY: The whole United States is looking for our Caylee.
CASEY ANTHONY: I know that mom.
CINDY ANTHONY: Everybody is looking for her.
CASEY ANTHONY: Good.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out the Cindy in New Jersey. Hi, Cindy.
CINDY, CALLER FROM NEW JERSEY: Hi. How are you, Nancy?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CINDY: My question is, how -- why is the -- how did the judge rule that the Anthonys, George and Cindy, could be in the courtroom when they are obviously going to be called to the stand? I thought that they -- people that were being called to the stand --
GRACE: You know, Cindy in New Jersey, typically witnesses called to the stand are sequestered. In other words kept separate from all the other witnesses and their testimony. They are not loud in courtroom -- in the courtroom.
There are exceptions to that, like a lead detective on the case could sit in the courtroom with me as a prosecutor and assist me as I try to case and he would hear all the testimony. Very often you can get around that by putting that witness up first and then they can hear all the rest of the testimony because they already testified.
But how did the judge reach that ruling, Jean Casarez?
And remember, everybody, it was tot mom herself that wanted her own parents kicked out of the courtroom, it wasn`t the state.
CASAREZ: Right. Judge Belvin Perry ruled based on the Florida Constitution which allows the victims to stay in the courtroom. They are the grandparents of the victim Caylee.
GRACE: And to Natisha Lance, talking about the air sample taking out of tot mom`s trunk which showed at special lab called the Body Farm at Oak Ridge Laboratories in Tennessee, that showed the presence of human decomposition. It`s just like the EPA, taking air sample, air quality samples when they`re trying get pollution down and then they analyze the air outside of a smokestack, all right.
The defense is now jumping up like hey, what, where did this come from? We`ve been talking about it for a year now. We`ve known about it. And suddenly the defense wants their own expert and they want more time to question the state`s expert.
What is it that they want? Don`t they want a list of 478 chemical compounds?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: They do, Nancy. What they`ve argued all along is that they did not have access to this database that held these chemicals that belonged to the FBI.
Well, Josh Ashton with the state attorney`s office made a call to the FBI to get that list. That list is now going to go to the defense, the list of 478 different chemical components, 30 of which go to human decomposition, and the defense will also have the opportunity to depose Arpad Vass again.
GRACE: So bottom line the judge is giving them a whole lot of stuff they may not be entitled to normally just so they can get rid of their objection, they can be totally prepared for this witness, and there won`t be a problem on appeal. That`s what this judge is doing. And he`s doing the right thing.
To Dr. Zhongxue Hua, Union County medical examiner. These 478 chemical compounds, how is that going to help them? A list of compounds and from those compounds 30 of them indicate human decomposition or decomposition.
DR. ZHONGXUE HUA, UNION COUNTY, NJ, MEDICAL EXAMINER: It`s not really helping. I mean no one should dispute when a body goes through this kind of decomposition process, various kind of gas has been generated.
The real question is, knowing the fact that (INAUDIBLE) can you go back so you know this is definitely a decomposition body. There`ll be a different question. Knowing the fact it`s this kind of evidence has not been used in this country or in the world. The question how, why this case -- I mean this avenue can be used here.
GRACE: And, another issue, I want to ask you, Dr. Hua, what piece of forensic evidence do you find to be the most damning?
HUA: I think probably the -- the banding of the hair.
GRACE: Me too. Show it, Liz. Explain it, Doctor.
HUA: Banding -- it`s a phenomenal. Being done now for almost 20 years. It usually and actually in most cases happen when a body already dead. Then the hair falling off, have this kind of typical banding as you show in this picture.
The normal people when people are still alive walking around you can shed your hair, your hair be falling off, you will not have this kind of typical banding feature.
GRACE: What is the band? What is that mark?
HUA: It`s presumed to be associated with part of body decomposition process.
GRACE: OK. So that makes sense to me. Maybe they should call you as a witness.
And here`s the kicker, everybody. This hair was found in tot mom`s trunk, and DNA rules this hair can only belong to either tot mom, Casey Anthony, or her daughter Caylee Anthony.
Now we know it`s not tot mom. She`s alive and well. Therefore it must belong to Caylee. What is Caylee`s hair doing post mortem after death in tot mom`s trunk?
Unleash the lawyers. Anne Bremner, Mark Nejame.
Explain it, Anne Bremner. What`s your best defense?
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I mean it`s very tough defense. I think you just have to attack the science and the collection just like in O.J. Simpson, and you know what? It worked in that case and other than that --
GRACE: Put Bremner up.
BREMNER: I`m here. I`m here, Nancy. But you know I think the thing about it is, this is a tough case. You`ve got to attack the science, the foundation, the scientists, the collection. And that`s about the only way to go.
GRACE: OK.
BREMNER: In terms of the banding, you know, it`s tough.
GRACE: So attack the science. You`re right. Attack the science, that`s the only way.
BREMNER: Right.
GRACE: What about it, Nejame?
MARK NEJAME, FORMER ATTORNEY TO TOT MOM PARENTS GEORGE AND CINDY ANTHONY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I think they`re going to at some point acknowledge that the child was there. I firmly believe that she`s going to be taking the stand. She`s going to be claiming that she made up these series of lies to protect herself and I think -- there`s no other way around it .
GRACE: Take the stand? Mark Nejame, were you serious?! You think she`s going to take the stand?
NEJAME: You wait and see, we`ll bet back to talking. She`ll be the taking the stand.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re in a public courtroom.
CINDY ANTHONY: If anything happens to Caylee, Casey, I`ll die.
CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, my god. Calling you guys, a waste. A huge waste.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve got something that`s super sensitive.
CASEY ANTHONY: I am upset now. I`m completely upset. One, the media is going to have a freaking field day with this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t whisper in each other`s ears.
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: When I asked her why won`t you allow us to see Caylee, she said, well, maybe I`m a spiteful (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
BAEZ: Then take it outside.
Really?
CASEY ANTHONY: Really.
BAEZ: You`re acting like a 2-year-old.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls, to Sarah in Nevada. Hi, dear, what`s your question?
SARAH, CALLER FROM NEVADA: Hi, Nancy, thank you for taking my call.
GRACE: Thank you for calling in.
SARAH: I hope you had a wonderful Mother`s Day.
GRACE: I really -- I really did. And I`m still so in love with being a mother, just to hear the words, "Happy Mother`s Day," the greatest words I`ve ever heard.
SARAH: And I can tell that with you, Nancy. Your two babies are just beautiful, and I`ve got two of my own that I would just give my life for. So I don`t understand this Casey, whole case of how she could do this to her own daughter.
GRACE: Uh-oh, we`re running out of time, what`s your question, dear?
SARAH: Two quick ones, Nancy. I don`t know what a mock jury is, and I was wondering why was a mock jury was brought in?
GRACE: The defense did it in connection with CBS. It`s done quite often in high-profile cases to figure out what you`re doing right and what you`re doing wrong.
And Sarah in Nevada, I didn`t get to your second question, because we`ve got to stop now and remember Army Staff Sergeant David Veverka, 25, Jamestown, Pennsylvania, killed Iraq. Awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Combat Infantry Airborne Wings. Also served the Old Guard at Arlington, where he is now buried.
Left studies of U of Maine to serve, posthumously awarded a bachelor in wildlife ecology. Loved basketball, kayaking, hiking the Maine mountains. Leaves behind parents, Ron, and Carol, stepparents, Judy and Jeff. Sister, Sandra, brothers, Doug and Keith.
David Veverka, American hero.
Thanks to our guests and especially to you. And a special good night to New York friend, Tiffany, who watches every night with mom, Peggy, even watched in labor with her baby girl, Juliette.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
