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Dr. Drew
Teen Reality Show Mom Loses Custody of Her Baby; Sex and the Sexes: How Men are Different From Women
Aired May 13, 2011 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go.
A teen mom loses custody of her baby.
Then, sex and the sexes, how are brains and bodies and beliefs get into bed with us. And what does Osama bin Laden have to do with it?
Let`s get started and find out.
First off here, a story that I am very personally invested in. Two of MTV`s teen moms, Janelle and Amber, are back in the headlines. And I want to share some news with you and what I know about it.
And I worked with both of them very closely on both the series "Teen Mom" and the "16 and Pregnant" series. We do these reunion shows with them, and I`ve had a chance to get to really get to know these girls. Teen mom Amber Portwood has apparently lost primary custody over her baby daughter, Leah. And yet, a judge awarded custody to the baby`s father, Gary, who you see there in that picture. He`s the gentleman there.
According to court testimony, the change in custody is not because Amber is an unfit mother. OK? So let`s stop with that nonsense.
CPS is actually concerned about Amber`s living conditions, and both parties agrees it would be best for the baby, Leah, to stay with Gary until further notice. Amber will have visitation rights.
And I know Amber well. She is an invested mother. That`s all she worries about like any mom, and she will be, believe me, making those visitations.
Now, also, "US Weekly" is reporting that "Teen Mom 2" star Janelle Evans has entered a rehab program. That`s her in the picture next to me there.
The rehab program, apparently in Malibu. She`s from out in the east somewhere.
According to sources, Janelle is clean right now and has been that way for several weeks. Nineteen-year-old Janelle has had an ongoing problem with drugs and the law.
In March, she was arrested after video surfaced on the Internet of her in a physical altercation with another girl, Brittany, as you see here. This was just an awful brawl.
And I`ll tell you what. Janelle is known to be using drugs. Her mother calls her out on it all the time.
Janelle was always minimizing the impact that drugs was having on her life and her choices, but look, I look at these pictures and I see two things. I see drug addiction and I see teen pregnancy unraveling lives.
So, in mid-April she pleaded guilty to possessions of drug paraphernalia. The fact that she is in treatment -- that`s her mug shot -- poor Janelle. Listen, I wish her the best. The fact that she is in treatment is absolutely a relief. It`s a great sign.
So, for us to sit and be disdainful of this, I think it`s a giant mistake. Obviously, she has to get herself sober before the well-being of her 21-month-old son, Jace, who everybody loves -- Jace, as they call "The Kid" on the show. But Jace is a great kid. I`ve met him many, many times.
Janelle wants to be an effective mom, but cannot be as an addict. And the good news, she`s getting treatment. Hopefully she`ll embrace the program and have a sustained recovery.
Now, on to the topic of the evening. A little uncomfortable already.
Sex and the sexes -- how are women different from men? I don`t mean in the obvious ways. I mean, why is it so hard to communicate with each other about sex, how differently we look at these things. How does porn play into it, for instance?
Now, get this. Osama bin Laden did us a great favor today. He has a stash of porn. OK. Just watch this and then we`ll talk.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY (voice-over): Sex, fundamental, primal. We`re programmed to make it and we fake it if we have to. But why are we, especially young people taking cues from popular TV shows featuring fictional characters and porn stars?
Research suggests that teens think intimacy and romance is all about handcuffs, sex toys and edible underwear. And men and women have very different views about sex.
We`ve been coming together with our bodies forever. Is there hope for uniting our brains?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Yes. There is just so much to learn tonight. So we`re going to try to gently go into this topic.
Again, viewers, if you have young children, make decisions about whether you want them watching this with you are not. We`re going to try to deal with this very respectfully and gently.
But I`m fascinated by the fact Osama bin Laden had a stash of porn. I wonder what that means about him.
We`re going to talk about what it means about us. We`re going to talk about how the constant watching of porn by today`s youth impact the way they look at one another, their expectations about sex. And understanding the differences is essential.
Joining me from Boston is Dr. Gail Dines, author of "Pornland: How Porn Has Hijacked Our Sexuality"; and porn star, now director/producer, Stormy Daniels. Stormy is in here in the studio with me.
And you and I talked once in the past about when you became a director/producer, you immediately noticed that men and women view pornography for different reasons.
STORMY DANIELS, PORN ACTRESS TURNED DIRECTOR: Absolutely. Most men go straight to the sex scenes. They use it as a quick way to release or get themselves going. They do it for visual simulation, strictly enjoyment.
A woman needs a little bit more time warming up. They are more likely to use it as a marital aid, watch it with their spouse or their partner to help get in the mood. Or maybe, strangely enough, I found a lot of women watching some of my newer titles to learn some new tips, learn, you know, it`s a good way to broach the, oh, what would you like to try new and put something in. And so many women come up to me and ask me about things that they`ve seen in my movies.
PINSKY: Now, you said to me once -- you paraphrased it in a very nice way when I talked to you last time about this. You said men want to see people having sex.
DANIELS: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Women want to know why those people like each other so much that they want to have sex.
DANIELS: Exactly. Women are definitely more interested in the storyline. A man`s perfectly happy to put in a DVD and go straight to the sex scene with no lead-up.
If you put that in next to your wife, chances are she`s going to say, "I would never bang the pizza delivery guy. Why does she like him so much?" Storyline and romance is a lot more important to a woman.
PINSKY: Now, Gail, you studied what pornography has done to not just young people, but maybe everybody in their attitudes about sex and sexuality. What have you found out?
GAIL DINES, AUTHOR, "PORNLAND": Well, first of all, let`s just talk about the kind of pornography that men are watching.
They might be watching this kind of more gentle, soft-core-ish pornography when they`re with their partners. But what studies show and the industry shows, in fact, is that when men are alone, they`re watching gonzo pornography, which is, hardcore, in your face, brutal, body punishing, dehumanizing, debasing pornography. This is where you see certain sex acts of choking a woman with a penis, spitting on her, calling her a slut, slapping her.
And what they found is that when men are alone, this is the pornography they go to. And what I have found in my interviews, and what studies have found for well over 30 years, is that, first of all, pornography shapes the way men think about sexuality. And this is especially the case today, because the average age of first viewing pornography is about 11 or 12.
When that boy types "porn" into Google, he comes up with hardcore body-punishing sex. He has no history of sex. He`s never had sexual experiences for most of them. So this is what he thinks sex is.
So, today, porn is the most profound form of sex education that exists in our society.
PINSKY: Gail, do you think that there`s some sort of developmental window during which if a young male is exposed to a certain kind of explicit material, it becomes sort of a preference or something that they seek? You understand what I`m asking?
DINES: Yes, of course. Well, actually, what`s interesting in the studies is it`s not actually age that`s the key, although we do know that, obviously, the younger they see it, they are more -- they are likely to get habituated to it.
What we know is, for all ages of men, the more they watch it, the more desensitized they become, the more they want harder and harder porn, and the more they believe the porn story of how the world exists. And the more they expect their partners to behave like that, they think their own bodies are going to behave like that.
I can`t tell you how many men tell me they`re disappointed when they actually have sex because they thought they were going to keep going all night, they thought she was going to have orgasms. And they all look very boring and bland and vanilla next to what they`ve been masturbating.
PINSKY: Stormy, how do you respond?
DANIELS: I`d like to go back a little bit, actually.
PINSKY: OK.
DANIELS: To the best of my knowledge, there has been no actual evidence found. There have been no studies. So I would like Gail to tell me where these studies are, because to the best of my knowledge, that`s not true.
And I will readily admit that there is lots of gonzo porn out there. There is some hardcore sex, you know, that includes deep-throating, which she was referring to, and whatever. But that is not the majority of what is watched.
If you go back over the last 20, 25 years, and look at what the top selling and renting DVD titles are every single year, none of those things are in them. The number one downloaded and viewed movies are movies like "Flashpoint" from Wicked Pictures, or "Island Fever" or "Pirates" from Digital Playground. Those movies don`t contain any of that hardcore -- what she`s referring to is a niche.
PINSKY: Well, I think what she`s saying is that men alone -- Gail, is that true? And you can quote the story (ph), too.
DINES: No. Actually, I`m saying that, Stormy, you need to go look at "Adult Video News," which I`m sure you know what that is. And you need to go to the page where it actually lists the charts at the top selling, renting, and the most visited Web sites.
DANIELS: That is what I`m referring to.
DINES: Well, then, you`re incorrect, because I use it in my talks all the time.
DANIELS: The number one rented movie last year I believe was "Pirates."
DINES: No, no. Probably the number one rented. I`m not disagreeing with that.
But I`m saying when you take the top 50, which is what they do, you`ve got you have got gonzo after gonzo. You have got John Stagliano, you`ve got all of these people who are making gonzo porn, not that type of stuff.
I also want to say in terms of the studies, I mean, that`s incorrect. There is actually 30 years of studies. There are excellent research studies done.
And what`s interesting is the weight of the evidence that it has an effect. Now, you can come out with some rogue study and some junk science that says pornography has no effect. But when you`re looking at social sciences and you`re looking at the effects, the key is you go to the weight of the evidence.
And there is no question that over the 30-year studies that we have had, the weight of the evidence is absolutely beyond debate now and beyond any analysis that says that porn has no effect. That is simply not true anymore.
PINSKY: Gail, thank you so much for joining me.
Stormy, good to see you.
We have to take a break.
We`re going to talk about -- we`ve already discussed porn`s effect, but how about its effect on the brain specifically? Did you ever wonder what exactly that is? We`re going to get into that after the break.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY (voice-over): This is your brain. This is your brain on sex. Straight ahead, how and why the male and female brains react so differently, including my brain. Yes, I took the scan, myself.
And later --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "WHEN HARRY MET SALLY")
MEG RYAN, ACTRESS: Yes! Yes!
(END VIDEO CLIP, "WHEN HARRY MET SALLY")
PINSKY: -- everything you ever wanted to know about climax and why women are afraid to ask.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Porn can be fun, especially if you watch it with your guy. Why not?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not as big a deal as a lot of people make it out to be. I mean, it`s just people having sex.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is the reason. Men love porn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: We are back with porn director and actress Stormy Daniels, and sex researcher Dr. Gail Dines.
We`ve been talking about sex. Now we are also going to launch into one of the very most exciting areas of research, the differences between men and women and their brain.
We have got brain maps we`re going to show you, functional MRI scans. And I`m going to show you the proof about the sexes and their differences with Dr. Stephan Hamann.
Now, first, though, Stormy Daniels -- there you are -- Stormy had a little steam though. We had a little conflict going as we went out into break. So I want to give Stormy a chance to have maybe the last word here, or one of the last words.
DANIELS: No, I just wanted to make the point that she`s quoting these studies, and I would like to know where they`re coming from, because to the best of my knowledge, there isn`t. And she has yet to provide me with where --
DINES: I can tell you.
DANIELS: -- exactly we can find this. And also, she had mentioned in some of her research that I had read about in her book that sex offenders are saying that they watch this, but where`s the demographic for the normal, healthy, married couple that uses pornography as a marital aid?
PINSKY: Well, let`s ask Dr. Dines.
Do you have a response to that?
DINES: Well, of course, there`s tons of studies. I mean, you just go to some of the psychological journals and there`s 30 years.
And one of the key researchers in the field, for example, is Dr. Neil Malamuth, who did a study about eight years ago looking at, I would say, 50 or 60 of the studies from the last 20 years. So, I mean, it`s not like I`m pulling these up from nowhere and making them up as I go along. I mean, there is a real scientific collection of knowledge here about this.
PINSKY: I will say this is a conversation worth continuing. Maybe I`ll bring you guys back to continue this conversation, because it`s an important one.
But we`ve got a ton of territory to cover today. And I want to go now to Dr. Hamann, who actually has maps of the brains of men and women.
Explain these studies to us and let`s look at them.
STEPHAN HAMANN, PH.D., PROFESSOR OF PSYCHOLOGY, EMORY UNIVERSITY: OK. What we wanted to do was see what the brain could tell us about why men and women have such different reactions to visual sexually stimuli and erotica. And I think you can see these are brain scan images that are showing when men and women are seeing the exactly same erotica.
You see a lot more activation in these deep parts of the brain. I don`t know if you can see with those little circles. Those are the older parts of the brain that are involved in emotion and motivation and drive.
And you can see in the women, there is relatively much less activation. And I think it gets back to what Stormy had mentioned about how men are very visual creatures. And I think there`s a whole story about that, perhaps evolutionarily. If you didn`t get aroused by a fertile female, you lost out evolutionarily.
So we`re finding in our own brain imaging information which really conforms to what we know sort of from more social studies.
PINSKY: Doctor Hamann, would it be -- a way to summarize your studies, would it be accurate to say that men, when they look at visual stimuli, sexual stimuli, they have arousal and appetite and drive? They`re driven. They want to react to that visual stimuli, while women can be highly aroused, but to not have appetite necessarily.
Is that correct?
HAMANN: Exactly. I think not only is it an appetite and a drive, but it kicks in very quickly.
And not to say it`s not under control, but it really is something which sort of is, before you`re really thinking about it, you`re feeling that drive, and you`re not really seeing that in the females. Now, at the same time, I`d like to mention that not all women and not all men are alike. So we`re talking about group differences.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Let me ask you this. Is there a -- I think you mentioned to me once that there`s a way to stimulate appetite and drive in women that is not visual. Is that correct?
HAMANN: Right. I mean, it`s a much more complicated sort of thing.
I think about men as like a box with one switch, and women as a very complicated sort of box where there is a psychological element and all sorts of multimodal information. So it can -- it`s not to say that women can`t be aroused by various kinds of visual erotica or movies, but it is a much more sort of holistic and composite type of stimulation that`s required.
PINSKY: Well, I read some study once that said that intimate conversation is one way of activating arousal. Stormy`s laughing at me when I say that.
That makes sense, right?
DANIELS: No, no. I was going to say that men prefer to watch movies. And who buys romance novels?
PINSKY: That`s right.
DANIELS: Have you ever read one of those?
PINSKY: Never.
DANIELS: They`re filthy.
PINSKY: Really?
DANIELS: Yes.
DINES: Can I mention here as a sociologist?
PINSKY: Please.
DINES: I mean, there`s something kind of strange about this. He`s trying to explain a $97 billion a year industry by looking at mappings of the brain rather than looking at profits and the drive to maximize profits, and the fact that pornography is an industry that has a logic (ph) within capitalism like in all other industries?
So, I mean, you`re looking in the wrong places to explain pornography. When you want to talk about pornography becoming more hardcore, more and more men watching it, you need to talk about the Internet, you need to talk about a culture that is basically misogynist. You need to talk about a culture that tells men and gives them permission to behave in this way.
I mean, these are the places we should be talking about and looking at, not a few brain scans, because that`s going to explain a multibillion- dollar-a-year industry.
PINSKY: I have this one scan I know Dr. Hamann has that specifically is not going to explain the multibillion-dollar-a-year industry. I believe he has my scan.
I actually went into the scanner myself.
Do you want to show us that?
My producer said it`s creepy, so I`m a bit fearful of what you`re going to show.
HAMANN: Right. We lured you into our --
PINSKY: Wait. My crew here is laughing their butts off.
But there it is, guys. You happy now?
HAMANN: So you`re a full red-blooded American male. Basically, you`re showing responses that were very typical of the males in our study.
You showed activation in these sort of deep, evolutionary ancient parts of your brain involving drive and emotion. And basically, you looked very much like the average American male in that way. You also were spending a lot of time thinking about these.
DINES: Do you think boys come out with a honing device for (INAUDIBLE)?
HAMANN: No, no, no.
PINSKY: Wait. Hold on a second.
DINES: This is ridiculous.
HAMANN: I really like the idea of you bringing up social factors. I think it`s very important.
PINSKY: Yes. We`re doing a little different topic, which is how the brains responds to these stimuli. And if we understand the biology of the responsiveness, that might explain why men get desensitized and why they get driven towards more and more highly arousing stimuli.
But let me just say that -- Stormy, do you have any response to that at all before I go on? No?
Dr. Hamann, let`s go back to my brain again, because I think you also said that I was paying very careful attention to things. That was the other thing you noticed on that scan if I remember right.
HAMANN: Right. I mean, not only were you being very aroused, but the areas that are involved in attention and even memory were being highly active, almost like you were taking notes while you were -- so you`re a very cerebral type of subject. But nonetheless, you did have the arousal areas.
PINSKY: All right. Well, TMI on the memory thing. These guys are having -- what?
DINES: I feel like we`ve been very intimate today.
PINSKY: Yes. Indeed we have.
So -- but let me just summarize what -- Dr. Hamann, thank you so much.
And Gail, thanks for joining us.
And, of course, Stormy, thank you for being here with me.
But let`s kind of summarize this a little bit.
What we learned is, by looking at these brains -- and again, the sociological issues aside -- is that male brains, when they see stimuli, have drive. Female brains have arousal without drive. In other words, there`s no appetite.
So when a woman dresses sexy and the guy goes, don`t you know what that does to men? No, you don`t necessarily. Well, you might. Some do and some don`t.
But appetite and drive can be stimulated in a woman through intimate dialogue and intimate conversation. Men, take note.
So that`s what they look like, our brains, what they look like on sex, your thoughts on sex.
Now we`re going to talk about casual sex, faking it, hair-pulling. I`m "On Call." We`re going to talk about that and also talk about climaxing. Easy for men, not so easy for women.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: All right now.
I am trying to keep a female out here on the stage with me for each one of these segments, as many as I possibly can, because even though I`m a doctor, having a middle-aged male do this entire thing is --
BETH LITTLEFORD, COMEDIAN: Creepy?
PINSKY: -- creepy, precarious. I want a female perspective. And now I`m joined by a very funny woman to help me with the "On Call" segment. Her name is Beth Littleford. You remember her from four years on "The Daily Show" with Jon Stewart.
And so, Beth, they want me to ask what?
LITTLEFORD: I kid. You`re not creepy at all. I love you.
PINSKY: Thank you. God bless you.
LITTLEFORD: OK.
PINSKY: What do you feel is the biggest difference between men and women when it comes to sex?
LITTLEFORD: Women are more complicated. We don`t need to talk about male orgasms because the male orgasm happens very easily, and there`s a blue pill.
PINSKY: That doesn`t make the orgasm, it just makes the erection.
LITTLEFORD: It doesn`t make the orgasm. It makes the erection, which can lead to the orgasm. Women, more complicated.
PINSKY: You know, Dr. Hamann, in the last segment, looked at brain scans of men and women. And I want to articulate this a little more clearly.
Those were men and women looking at sexy pictures, basically, and the brains reacted differently. And women are like the flight deck of a 747. And everyone is different. Every plane is different. It flies differently.
And men, it`s just a hamster on a wheel basically.
LITTLEFORD: Yes.
PINSKY: It`s about that simple -- or one button.
LITTLEFORD: Quite simple. Here we go -- trajectory, orgasm, done.
PINSKY: There you go.
All right. We`re going to go to -- let`s see there`s a phone call from Noy, I believe the name is, in Illinois.
We`re going to ask Noy, what is on your mind? Noy?
NOY, ILLINOIS: Hey, Dr. Drew.
I was wondering, what is the best way to bring up the sexually transmitted infection conversation when it comes to a relationship?
PINSKY: Yes. You know, I`ve been dealing with that question over the years for quite some time.
First of all, wear a condom all the time. That`s one way of sort of diminishing the risk. Also, get the HPV vaccine. That`s very important for all of you, males and female, younger.
You can prevent cervical cancer. You can prevent anal and throat, head and neck cancers as well. Know this.
But if you have something that could be transmitted, you`re concerned, I`m not sure it`s the first date, but I think the third or fourth date, if it looks like you`re going to start to be going down a path where there`s going to be a relationship.
Wouldn`t you agree?
LITTLEFORD: I think it`s so important to talk about all of this stuff before you have sex. Sex is the most intimate thing you can do with another person. So if you can have this conversation about diseases, about protection, that`s kind of the adult thing to do and the way to show you`re ready to move ahead with this person.
PINSKY: Right. I mean, we put more investigative work into buying a car than who we`re -- that`s the reality.
We`ve got another caller. Her name is Diana. She`s in California.
Diana, what is your question?
DIANA, CALIFORNIA: If you`re a single, healthy person, is it OK to have casual sex?
PINSKY: What do you think, Beth?
LITTLEFORD: I would say, in general to women, that sex is something that needs to be thought about. So, casual sex, I did plenty of it. You know, I would not advise it.
I really wouldn`t. I would say, if you have a relationship with someone where you don`t want to marry this person, but you`re enjoying each other and you know you`re safe -- although I guess it`s hard to know you`re safe. I mean, you really always have to use protection.
PINSKY: But at least you do an evaluative process.
LITTLEFORD: An evaluative process. That`s a well way to put it -- yes, well put.
PINSKY: And careful. It`s not as casual as people would think it is. It has an impact on our soul and our emotional lives.
LITTLEFORD: And I think in the media we`re always seeing it as sort of throwaway. Fabulous, sexy, let`s go, let`s do it.
PINSKY: OK. Now you see why I have a woman out here with me? This is very important.
Now, I`ve got a Facebook -- once again, my crew here is very entertained by today for some reason.
Micah (ph), Facebook question. She says, "I have orgasms during oral sex but never during intercourse. Do you think there`s something wrong?"
Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.
Let me just say, we`re going to be addressing this in a later segment more completely. And Beth will join me for that discussion later in the show.
But first, a billion Web hits are studied. In fact, many billion. Find out what men and women surf for when it comes to sex on the Internet.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (voice-over): The internet revolutionized the way we view and think about sex. You saw how sex affects the male and female brain, but if you want to read their thoughts, look at their web searches. We`re showing their private thoughts, the taboo thoughts, the dirty thoughts, a billion wicked thoughts.
And later, orgasms zero to 60.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, yes, oh.
PINSKY: Sixty being the percentage of women who never have them from intercourse. If you`re not climaxing and you`re not talking about it, you`re not alone. Most women never bring it up. Are you one of them? If so, stay with us. Sex solutions coming up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (on-camera): Our next guest, Ogi Agas. Dr. Agas co-wrote a book called "A Billion Wicked Thoughts." It`s a massive study about sexual behavior. In fact, he told me it`s probably several billion searches that they gathered together and really learned what it is that people are doing on the internet.
I`ve also got for me here in the studio two guys who know a bit about men and the internet. This is Evan Mann and Gareth Reynolds. They`re comedians and TV hosts. I want to point out that, obviously, there are no women in the studio now.
GARETH REYNOLDS, COMEDIAN: That`s because of us, right?
PINSKY: It`s obvious. It`s because of you guys. And the point is, this is when I want women at home to learn something about men. And thus, just sharing amongst ourselves. So, when you`re alone and you`re on the internet, what kind of stuff are you looking at?
REYNOLDS: So, with these cameras aren`t on?
PINSKY: They`re not on, whatever.
REYNOLDS: We check out our own website a lot, Drew.
PINSKY: E-mail.
EVAN MANN, COMEDIAN: Right.
REYNOLDS: I think a lot of times to sort of kill time, I`ll just sort of follow Facebook threads of like picture click to picture click to picture click, and then, all of a sudden, you`re on some weirdo`s Facebook.
MANN: Right. What`s actually weird about porn is you find the weirdest stuff on YouTube now. There are like ballooning videos.
REYNOLDS: You know a ballooning videos?
MANN: I`ve heard of it.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I`ve actually not seen it. I`ve actually not, but I`ve heard about it.
MANN: It`s just basically people humping balloons.
PINSKY: I didn`t even know that. I thought -- I`ve heard this porn (ph) have people changing body sizes and things.
REYNOLDS: Right. That`s part of it, too. No, it`s an actual like lay on top of a balloon fetish.
MANN: Right.
REYNOLDS: And then, there`s weird beard fetishes. I mean --
MANN: People grabbing other people`s beards.
REYNOLDS: Yes. The cat is sort of out of the bag when it comes to how weird guys are now online.
PINSKY: Dr. Agas, what we`ve established here is that Gareth and Evan are interesting gentlemen. What did you learn about what men are doing predominantly?
OGI AGAS, AUTHOR, "A BILLION WICKED THOUGHTS": So, one of the big surprises -- so, first let me say that we analyzed about a billion web searches, a million erotic stories, about a half million erotic videos, online personal ads, online dating information, a very wide variety of online data to try to figure out what men like and women like.
And some of the surprises about men, one of the biggest was that it turns out that, of course, men like younger women, but we were surprised to find that there`s a very big interest all around the world in older women. In fact, women in their 40s, their 50s, even in their 60s are extremely popular. There`s even a genre of pornography called granny porn, which is exactly what it sounds like, which has popularity in just about every country, especially Britain, Kenya and Czechoslovakia.
REYNOLDS: It`s huge in Kenya.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Do you think some of that is a function of the population aging? The people are interested in looking at their peers?
AGAS: No, I don`t think so. What we find, in fact, is that many of the fans of granny porn search for teens just as often. So, it seems to be a shared interest in multiple things. It doesn`t seem to be older people looking for older women. It seems to be a wide range of ages of men who are looking for older women.
PINSKY: And what are women looking for? Do they look for the same different things than men, right?
AGAS: Very different online. So, men are almost entirely visual when it comes to online erotica. Women, on the other hand, look for stories. They look for erotic stories. Of course, the biggest form of female erotica is the romance novel, still very, very popular. There`s also kind of online romantic and erotic story called fan fiction. This is something new on the internet.
It`s amateur women writing stories usually of erotic or romantic character, sometimes about characters from popular culture such as "Twilight," "Harry Potter," things like that. In fact, we just checked and we saw that there are some fan fiction stories about "Celebrity Rehab," but I got to say, Drew, you don`t appear as an erotic character in them. You`re usually a therapeutic role.
PINSKY: Thank you. I`m relieved.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: I`m freaked out for my patients, but I`m relieved for myself and my family. OK. Wow! That`s interesting. So, does that make sense to you, guys? So, what we`re hearing here is that women read, actually read, which for you guys when you`re alone --
MANN: don`t know what a book is.
REYNOLDS: I honestly -- I thought books were paperweights until just now.
PINSKY: But it`s almost comical to think about how different that is, what a man is doing than a woman`s doing.
REYNOLDS: Well, yes. I mean, I think, like, as far -- I mean, for a guy to think of reading to even be incorporated in that sort of time alone seems really, really bizarre.
MANN: Right.
REYNOLDS: Yes.
MANN: Yes, guys definitely like to get straight to it. I think that there`s no argument about that.
REYNOLDS: I thought Ogi was talking about like the plot lines in some of the actual films, themselves, which I was going to say are very, very weak most times.
MANN: And another term, by the way, for granny porn is dragon slaying.
REYNOLDS: Yes. We made a video few years ago -- it`s like cougar hunting but for 70 plus. Dragon slaying.
PINSKY: Dragon slaying, and you were trying to say something there.
AGAS: Yes, they`re also called GILFS which stands for granny, I`d like to fornicate with.
(LAUGHTER)
REYNOLDS: For a second, I thought you were going somewhere weird, Ogi. I really did.
PINSKY: So, listen -- go ahead.
AGAS: I can actually explain why men prefer visuals and women prefer stories. So, it comes down to some differences in the brain. I know, earlier, we`re talking about the different reactions that men have to visual erotica than women do, but also the male brain is designed so that any single stimulus triggers arousal. All a guy needs to do is see a nice chest or two girls kissing, and instantly arousals triggered.
But the female brain is designed so that it requires multiple cues presented simultaneously or in quick succession. That`s why they need more complication erotic stimuli. I like the story. It takes more different stimuli to trigger arousal.
REYNOLDS: Such a bummer, isn`t it
PINSKY: I think that`s right. And I think we have to really honor these differences. They`re biological, they make evolutionary sense. They`re based on evolution of biology of our species. And so, why do we have to put the standard for female, a 17-year-old male? Why do the women feel like they have to measure up to being like a 17-year-old male when the fact is they`re so different? Do you have any opinion about that, Ogi?
AGAS: Yes, absolutely. Society has applied the same standard, as you said, of sexual desire to men and women, but the truth is female desire is just very, very different, biologically very different. So, we can`t really compare them. One of the biggest difference between the male brain and the female brain is that, in the male brain, the psychological arousal and physical arousal are united. So, if a guy is physically turned on, he`s mentally turned on most of the time, too.
But in women, it`s quite different. The brain is designed so that physical arousal and mental arousal are separate. So, a woman can be physically aroused but mentally turned off or even disgusted. Most guys find this very unusual. It doesn`t usually happen to them, but this is one of the fundamental differences that also, again, explains the different kinds of erotica that men and women prefer.
PINSKY: And I would say -- we`ve said earlier looking at brain scans that a way to activate the drive in some women is intimate conversation. Again, that sort of --
REYNOLDS: So, that`s sort of the foreplay now is the intimate conversation.
PINSKY: When you guys heard the word foreplay, see, what I want to do is sort of crush all the nonsense out there in women`s magazines, because men are much more simple than the magazines make you think. How they can fill magazines with that nonsense every month or however often is just bizarre to me because men are very simple. But, when you, guys, hear the word foreplay, what do you think? What do you think someone`s talking about this, I need more foreplay?
REYNOLDS: Well, I mean, I think it`s kissing and that it`s everything leading up to --
MANN: I thought it was actually when you were having sex. So, that`s weird. That`s way off.
REYNOLDS: Really?
PINSKY: No, it`s not way off. I think a lot of men think foreplay means genital touching at least erotic touching.
REYNOLDS: Right.
PINSKY: Ogi, what does foreplay mean for women?
REYNOLDS: Hit us with it, Ogi.
PINSKY: From what you`ve learned.
AGAS: Women do require psychological and emotional cues. Men get aroused by just the visual. Women needs psychological and emotional cues. In fact, --
MANN: What`s a good example of a psychological cue?
PINSKY: Well, I`m going to tell you what it is. It`s dinner.
MANN: Dinner is foreplay?
PINSKY: Yes. Going out to dinner is foreplay.
REYNOLDS: What don`t you know, Drew?
PINSKY: And for a male, that is so bizarre. You hear Charlie Brown`s teacher speak when I say that.
MANN: I have foreplay every single night.
PINSKY: By yourself. It`s a little bit different.
(LAUGHTER)
MANN: I love a good foreplay.
PINSKY: You`re really entertaining my crews right there.
MANN: Medium rare foreplay.
PINSKY: All right. I got to say goodbye to you guys. Dr. Agas, thank you so much. Very interesting. Hope to have you back, as well. Gareth --
REYNOLDS: It`s a pleasure. We can hang out socially, though, after this, right?
PINSKY: We`ll have dinner.
MANN: Yes. A little foreplay. All right.
PINSKY: All right. Their show, "Mancations," premieres June 5th on the travel Channel. I`m going to go on a mancation. And we`re going to address the taboo topic. Now, I`m really going to challenge my sort of acronym here about no topic being taboo. We`re going to talk about orgasms as our show achieves a climax, straight ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (voice-over): Orgasms, simple for men, complicated for women. Most women don`t even get them from intercourse, but some get many in one session, including our next guest. Why such a huge variance? Which group to you belong to? And what can you do about it? Straight ahead, why conversation is the key.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`ve got plenty of orgasms under your belt. You`re going to be fine. Now, let`s retrace your steps. Were you on top?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How is that relevant?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You mean, you can have them on the bottom?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Top, bottom, upside down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Now, you`re just showing off.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m asking for help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sweetie, I`m sure it will pop up when you least expect it. Like jury duty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (on-camera): It is confusing for women, and even more confusing for men. I hope you know that about 50 percent, 60 percent of women do not have orgasm with intercourse. They just don`t, and women don`t talk to each other about this. They don`t talk to their doctors about it, but we`re going to talk about it tonight. We`re back here with comedian Beth Littleford and Kashuna Little
Kashuna says she has no problem with this issue. And Beth, I`m going to go to you first and ask why don`t women share this topic? I have a suspicion. It`s what we were talking about in the last segment is that if you don`t function like a 17-year-old male, you feel somehow less than. Diminished.
BETH LITTLEFORD, COMEDIAN: It`s the media lie. It`s the media lie that we`re supposed to somehow be multi-orgasmic with no help from any kind of stimulation, and you know, lay there and be like a porn star. And I think, unfortunately, the only how-to videos about sex are porn, and watching porn to learn about sex is like watching "Saw" to learn about open heart surgery.
It`s not a good how-to. It`s really not. So, I think I`m the exception to the rule here because I`ve been known to draw diagrams, give tutorials.
PINSKY: For your male partner?
LITTLEFORD: No. For my girlfriends. From high school on. And now, hand out marital aids. My male partner -- I`ve been with him 15 years. He know.
PINSKY: But a man are relieved when women give them instruction because, like I said earlier, each woman`s like a flight deck of a 747. Every damn plane different. Complete Different control panel.
LITTLEFORD: You need to speak up, ladies. I mean, that`s the message to all the ladies. And Kashuna agrees with me. I mean, she`s got a talent. She`s got a special talent.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Kashuna, what is your talent?
KASHUNA LITTLE, HAS MULTIPLE ORGASMS: Well, I don`t know if it`s a special talent, but it`s knowing the combination that works for me. You know, if you go to a fast food restaurant, you know certain combos are not going to fill you up. I know the combo that works for me. And so, therefore, it`s about communication.
LITTLEFORD: And it works for you?
LITTLE: Every time.
LITTLEFORD: many times over.
LITTLE: Many times over, and I always walk away satisfied.
PINSKY: So, just so we get for people at home can sort of understand what these different categories are, and again, because women are so different kind (ph) of cheer about it. You have sequential orgasms.
LITTLE: Yes.
PINSKY: You don`t have multiple. Because let me be clear, multiple orgasmic females will have one every 30 seconds, maybe 30 or 40 times. I know for those of you out there that have it just without intercourse ever think that somehow lying, it`s not, it`s a different biology. You can`t go between one and the other. You have sequential, is that correct?
LITTLE: Well, thank you. Sequential orgasm.
(LAUGHTER)
LITTLEFORD: She does.
LITTLE: I do. I have sequential orgasms.
PINSKY: Yes.
LITTLE: And, you know, it happens like I said, a lot during one session. And I stopped counting a long time ago. After, you know, seven, eight, nine.
PINSKY: That`s sort of sequential this one, her body went --
(LAUGHTER)
LITTLEFORD: No, no, it`s -- I was thinking of something.
PINSKY: OK.
LITTLEFORD: I want to speak to most of the ladies out there.
PINSKY: Yes, please, please.
LITTLEFORD: Who are the ones who are not having sex in the missionary position and think something`s wrong with them.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
LITTLEFORD: Which is to say, gals, it`s a lot of work. Am I talking to you out there? I`m talking to you. Gals, it`s a lot of work to find out how to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) when you`re coming of age sexually. And then, sometimes, it`s work to tell your partner how to get you to (EXPLETIVE DELETED), and it`s work that`s worth doing.
PINSKY: And the men, believe me, aim to please. Men are basically pretty clueless.
LITTLEFORD: Pretty.
PINSKY: Pretty.
(LAUGHTER)
LITTLE: That`s an understatement.
PINSKY: Let`s take a -- before we come out too hard on male. Let me take a Twitter question from Tiffany who asks, "Is it possible for me to slow down my orgasms to enjoy sex?" This is somebody who`s more in the multi-orgasmic category. She immediately will start having them. And again, wouldn`t we say it`s about communication with the male partner, and you know, learning about the function of the couple together?
LITTLEFORD: Well, I`d also say because the woman`s brain is involved in a way that men`s is not --
PINSKY: Differently, yes.
LITTLEFORD: During the actual climax, that --
LITTLE: Thirty minutes ahead, at least.
LITTLEFORD: Right. All throughout. And throughout orgasm, I think it can be a little bit of a mind trick to keep breathing deeply and riding the wave. I mean, it`s almost like surfing, I think.
PINSKY: Wow, that`s not like a man. Here`s a Facebook question. It asks, "How long should I let him recharge before entering round two?" Now, this is, again, this is by way of explanation. Men have something called, all men have something called a refractory phase. This, again, we were talking about the multi-orgasmic women earlier. They don`t have a refractory phase.
It just goes one after the other. Most women have a refractory phase like man, and that determines what the age of the man. For the young man, it`s 30 minutes. For guys a little bit older, it could be a couple days.
LITTLE: Wow.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Could be. I mean, let`s not --
LITTLE: What we do during that time, oh my goodness.
PINSKY: Well, and that`s an important part of this conversation, too, which that it`s -- the population is aging, and we need to adjust expectations about that as well. We did a piece last week where I talked to a doctor who was putting testosterone pellets in women to make sure women continue to have libido and sex drive which they tend to lose as they get older.
LITTLEFORD: Well, that`s interesting because I was going to say, the market just really played to aging men with Viagra, but do we have anything for women --
PINSKY: It`s testosterone. And the Viagra-type pills don`t really work on women.
LITTLEFORD: Because there was talk for awhile of like, oh, maybe, this will get drop (ph), you know.
PINSKY: There`s something in it for some women, but for the most part, listen, let`s be clear. The Viagra is used to give an erection to a male. It doesn`t have anything to do with sexual arousal. That`s a different thing. Let`s go back to why it is women don`t share more on this topic. Do they feel -- you guys kind of do.
LITTLE: I don`t know about whether or not I share because I have a group of friends. We actually have a club where we get together and we share stories and I`m kind of, like, the youngest one of the club, so we get together. We share stories, and they tell me what works and what`s going to --
PINSKY: But when you hear -- let`s ask the question this way. When you hear that somebody else has an easier time of it, so to speak, do you feel defensive, do you feel flawed?
LITTLEFORD: I think it`s easy for women to just, to just be like, can`t talk about it. I have, like I said, I`ve handed out marital aids to friends, and I`ve had more than one be like, please stop. I say, oh, I forgot to tell you how to do it. You have to get on top and rub. And they so, no, stop, I can`t. I can`t.
(LAUGHTER)
LITTLEFORD: I can`t listen. It`s too embarrassing and horrifying.
PINSKY: My ears just burned.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: My ears are on fire.
LITTLEFORD: It`s too horrifying, sadly, for women to -- because this is not -- we`re not seeing this in the media. We`re seeing 17-year-old male sexuality.
PINSKY: Right. That`s my question.
LITTLEFORD: Not female sexuality.
PINSKY: And that, really, I think is sad. And are women aware of that? And then, why then focus on all the stuff in the magazines about the men?
LITTLEFORD: Yes, like I understand the girl magazines that it`s all about how to get him off, how to pleasure him, how to make him think you`re hot.
LITTLE: This is why my girl friends and I talk, because you don`t find a lot of stuff out there about it, and they pass out -- even, you know, my mother, when the first time that I had sex, I called my mother. And I said, you know what, I`m about to do some things that I`ve never done before and she`s like, what?
I`m like, you know, when a man and women are coming together and they can make a baby. So, my mother immediately began to say, well, do you have your candles, do you have your candy, do you have your lotion and all of that? So, women, if you know, you need to tell other women.
LITTLEFORD: My mother said, don`t give away the milk for free. Don`t buy the cow. That`s what my mom told me when we talked about sex. But --
PINSKY: Let me just say, there`s no talking about candles and lotions with your mom the way there was with Kashuna`s. Listen, I have to take a break. I`m sorry. It`s very interesting, but let me tell you, let me just still down everything in those women`s magazines about the male, it`s simple, he wants you to be there. If he`s chosen you (ph), he wants to be there. That`s it. Forget everything else in those stupid magazines.
OK. We`re going to continue the conversation about sex after this quick break, so stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guys always truly do think they know everything, but women are complicated creatures.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know what it takes to satisfy any women any time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Men and women have their own, you know, outlook and their own opinion on what romance is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Beth Littleford and Kashuna Little to wrap things up. Now, Beth, what have we learned here? We learned that women are complicated and men are simple?
LITTLEFORD: We`ve learned that female sexuality is complicated. We`ve learned that women need to take more time to get to know their own bodies and more time to tell their partners what works on their bodies. I feel like I want to go back to the 1970s where we had our bodies ourselves and Betty Dodson`s, you know, sex for one. The art of self-loving. I mean, this is some great stuff. Hairy underarms and a protest sign.
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Kashuna, what do you think? What have we learned here?
LITTLE: We`ve learned we really have to talk. If you want to be pleasured and also to make sure that your partner gets a lot of pleasure, you need to talk about it.
PINSKY: Let me interrupt you. Men are invested in that. Men do want to do that. May seem like they don`t, but they really, really do. It`s very important to men. And I think one of the reasons you`re able to talk is your mom talked with you.
LITTLE: Yes. Like I said, I feel comfortable enough to go to her and to ask her or to call her and say, hey, what`s going on? I knew that my mom knew what to do. You know, my family, the women were very sexual in my family, and I knew that, you know, we could be really open about it, then, also to have a group of girl friends who say, hey, this is what I do. It works. They have long relationships. So, talk to women that have long relationships. You know that men are happy and find out what works.
LITTLEFORD: And also women should know that there`s a wide range of normal. Almost everything, like --
PINSKY: That`s the --
LITTLEFORD: Feel OK about ourselves.
PINSKY: That`s the truth, and that`s the part -- I`ve done radio for years where this comes up over and over again. Women are always feeling flawed and confused, and let me just review it again real quick is that many women will not begin having orgasmic function until they`re in their early 20s. That`s just the way it goes. That`s true.
And of those, about -- most of those will then only have orgasm, they will never have it with intercourse, that doesn`t just do it for them. The other 40 percent, 50 percent will, like Kashuna, have sequential or sometimes (INAUDIBLE) stimulation, and then, there`s that last percentage at the end, maybe three to five percent that stole all the orgasms from everybody else.
(LAUGHTER)
LITTLE: I`m not percent.
PINSKY: So, let`s go to a Facebook question. This is from Cynthia. She said, "I love it when my boyfriend pulls my hair during sex. It turns me on. Is this normal?" Ladies?
LITTLEFORD: This is normal. It`s all normal. Whatever turns you on, turns you on. If you want be like the girls we all see in the media now and be all porny, that`s great. If you just want to be yourself and let it hang out which is what I wish most of us would do, let it all hang out and know that most men are turned on by it doesn`t matter what you look like, doesn`t matter if there`s some dimples, there`s some rolls, it`s all good.
LITTLE: Yes. For me, it doesn`t work because I wear wigs. So, if you pull my hair, that`s not going to work.
(LAUGHTER)
LITTLEFORD: OK. For her, it doesn`t work.
LITTLE: If you spank me, hey, there we go.
LITTLEFORD: She likes the spanking.
LITTLE: Got to have a little extra pain outside of the intercourse.
PINSKY: But I tell you what, to be demeaning and to harm somebody, that is not OK.
LITTLEFORD: No, she likes a light spanking.
LITTLE: No. A light spanking. Yes, not a corporate punishment. None of that. Light, you know, like that, Dr. Drew.
(LAUGHTER)
LITTLEFORD: A slap.
LITTLE: You know, make a little sound then it goes -- then it jiggles.
PINSKY: Oh, my goodness.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Ladies, I want to thank you for your information and your frankness. Settle down now. Host here, host here.
OK. Next week, I`m going to talk to Chaz Bono. We`re going to talk about transgender issues. And thank you -- I hope you learned something tonight. I hope we did this in a way that was meaningful and helpful to everybody, and we will see you next time.
END
