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Nancy Grace
Utah Remains Found May Be Missing Susan Cox Powell; Jurors in Tot Mom Casey Anthony Case Arrested
Aired May 16, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Live to Utah and the mystery surrounding the disappearance of a gorgeous young stock broker, mother of two, 28-year-old Susan Powell, last seen when Daddy suddenly announces at midnight Sunday night he`s taking boys ages 4 and 2 camping in the snow. They get back home. He says Mommy`s gone, vanished.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, skeletal remains discovered in the Utah desert. Is it the body of mother of two Susan Powell?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. Has Susan Powell`s body been found.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any idea what happened to her?
JOSHUA POWELL, HUSBAND: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports began swirling that the body of the missing Utah mom may have been found after authorities were called to a remote desert just outside Salt Lake City.
JOSHUA POWELL: She`s somewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A local attorney who was working on his family`s farm found the remains late Sunday night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I still need to know where my daughter is. That`s kind of where I am right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Searches for Susan have reportedly been conducted in the area before, and the location of the remains is nearly halfway between the Powell family home and the location that husband Josh Powell says he took the couple`s children for a camping trip the night of Susan`s disappearance.
GRACE: Josh Powell says he`s taking his two boys camping, age 2 and 4, at midnight?
JOSHUA POWELL: A lot of times, I just go camping with my boys, and I`m not (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: In the snow?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have any idea what happened to her?
JOSHUA POWELL: No. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And breaking news in the case of 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct-taping, placing a heart- shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
With the murder trial of tot mom Casey Anthony under way, tot mom`s defense reveals, true or not, she claims she`s sexually molested as a child. How`s that relevant to 2-year-old Caylee`s murder? Top mom`s likely targets, father George and brother Lee Anthony. We learn jurors may be asked to smell the stench of death from inside tot mom`s car trunk. But she remembers that molestation only after 2-year-old Caylee disappears? After we confirm one of tot mom`s defense team marries a serial killer, George and Cindy and Lee Anthony no-shows in court.
Breaking tonight. Tot mom jurors arrested. We go live for the latest, this as we learn a stealth juror already announces he`s got a book title and book cover for his tot mom trial tell-all once he gets on the jury. Tonight, grandparents George and Cindy Anthony threaten to sue their lawyer. And as one juror after the next thrown off the panel for admitting they already believe tot mom`s guilty of murdering 2-year-old Caylee, tot mom laughs and jokes in front of the jury panel, seemingly without a care in the world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty or not guilty?
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Hey? Guess what? That happened to me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Anthony`s guilt or innocence?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel she committed the crime.
CASEY ANTHONY: The stuff that`s being said has been completely...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your honor, I feel that she`s guilty.
CASEY ANTHONY: ... completely fabricated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you lay aside that opinion, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t believe so, no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You may be excused.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you require her to testify?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don`t want to be up here, I think -- I can definitely understand not wanting to be up here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s understandable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that you will see Casey Anthony testify in this trial.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened to Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The corpse was wrapped up in duct tape with a heart on it.
CASEY ANTHONY: This wouldn`t be going on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to find the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being us. Bombshell tonight. The mystery surrounding the disappearance of a gorgeous young stock broker, mother of two Susan Powell. In the last hours, skeletal remains discovered in the Utah desert. Is it the body of Susan Powell?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Utah police were called last night after remains were found by a local attorney in a remote desert.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bottom torso of a body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A skeleton that was wearing pants.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could it be that of missing Utah mom Susan Powell?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The attorney was in the area, checking spring run-off, when he discovered the remains.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Looked like there was still a little bit of tissue on one foot and a couple of the toes.
JOSHUA POWELL: We just miss her and we want her back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police immediately swarmed the area and are now working to determine cause of death.
JOSHUA POWELL: I love her and my boys love her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are they doing?
JOSHUA POWELL: They`re doing OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are not commenting on specifics about the remains and any connection they may have to missing mom Susan Powell.
JOSHUA POWELL: And any help to try to find her would be appreciated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Appreciated? This is guy so suspicious!
JOSHUA POWELL: I didn`t do anything. I mean, I -- I don`t know where she`s at. I don`t even know where to start looking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Finally, has the body of 28-year- old stockbroker, mother of two, Susan Powell been found? We`re going to take you straight down to tot mom`s jury selection, but first, let`s go live for the latest on these remains to Jim Kirkwood with KTKK. Jim, what do we know?
JIM KIRKWOOD, KTKK TALK SHOW HOST: We know that the Tooele County attorney checking out his family farm for spring run-off discovered a body, and that body turns out to be -- it was scattered remains, but the medical examiner is taking a good look at them. At this point, it`s not clear what`s going on there with that body, but there has been a body found and it`s about halfway between Salt Lake and Simpson (ph) Springs, where Mr. Powell was allegedly gone with his boys.
GRACE: With us, Jim Kirkwood, KTKK. Jim, can you describe the terrain for me? What kind of area was it?
KIRKWOOD: Yes. I`ve just been there a few months ago. It is mostly sagebrush. This time of year, a lot of green grass, but that in July turns brown. It`s cattle and coyotes country, Nancy. That`s really all it is.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Ann in Arkansas. Hi, Ann. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to know how come this gentleman packed up all the things and moved it out of the house, and then on top of it all, took the kids out camping at nighttime in the snow?
GRACE: Well, Ann in Arkansas, it makes absolutely no sense. And then very shortly he packed up, both the boys and moved, moved far away.
Joining us tonight is a special guest. Susan`s father, Chuck Cox, is with us. Chuck, thank you for being with us. Did he, the husband, Joshua Powell, ever explain to you why he wanted to take the boys camping the very night she disappears in the snow after midnight?
CHUCK COX, SUSAN POWELL`S FATHER (via telephone): No, he never has.
GRACE: How soon did he up and leave, pack up and leave the area after Susan went missing?
COX: I think it was about two weeks.
GRACE: Back to Jim Kirkwood joining us from KTKK. Jim, I want to get back to the discovery of the remains. You said that they were scattered. What do you mean by that?
KIRKWOOD: From the run-off and probably animals like coyotes, the bones of the upper part of the body were scattered over a pretty wide area. Apparently, the lower torso was still intact.
GRACE: To Rupa Mikkilineni, our producer on the story. Rupa, what more can you tell us about today`s discovery?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. The discovery was made yesterday, Nancy, at about 5:00 PM Sunday on the ranch of a local attorney. It`s a family ranch. This is a desert area, Stockton, Utah, 25 miles outside of Susan Powell`s home, where she was last seen sleeping in her bed, according to her husband, Josh Powell. Now, it`s also precisely the midpoint between the location of her home and where Josh Powell took the children camping that night.
GRACE: Joining us right now, Jean Casarez. She`s been on the story from the very, very beginning. Jean, thank you for being with us. Jean, as you well know, these remains discovered about halfway between where Susan Powell lived with her two little boys and her husband -- only later did we learn they were having a lot of marital problems -- halfway between there and where the dad said he took the boys camping.
But Jean, isn`t it true that after many attempts by police to find out where they went camping, it still remains vague and unclear where he really went camping with the boys?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": It truly was. He didn`t give a definitive answer on that. But Nancy, when I heard this, my heart just stopped beating. But Nancy, it had been believed that possibly remains could be in one of the thousands of mines in Utah. And if this is finally the realization of what happened to their loved one, then maybe that is positive.
GRACE: And you know, Jean, another thing that led police to believe that Susan`s remains were in one of these caverns, one of these caves, is that one of the little boys said something about Mommy being with the crystals, which you find in caves and caverns, isn`t that right?
CASAREZ: That`s right, and there`s thousands of those in Utah. And that`s what made people just feel so desperate to ever find her.
GRACE: To Chuck Cox. Joining us tonight and taking tonight is Susan`s father, who has relentlessly called for justice in this case. When did you learn that remains had been found, Chuck?
COX: We started getting e-mails from people down in Utah that had seen it on the news last night about 9:00 or 10:00 o`clock.
GRACE: To Elaine in Illinois. Hi, Elaine. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you feeling?
GRACE: I`m good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, good. I`m still hoping you got my letter about the poem with Zahra Baker but -- because I know you`re very busy and popular, so I don`t know if you ever got to that one.
GRACE: Well, busy, yes. Popular, don`t know so much about that. A lot of defense attorneys don`t like me too much. But I will go on a search for your letter, Elaine in Illinois. Now, what is your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, well, I have two questions.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One, I wanted to know if the husband ever took a lie detector test. And two, did they find anything, like her clothing, anything that she had on the last time that she was seen around that skeletal body?
GRACE: Interesting. Out to Jean Casarez. Jean, where did he say -- the husband, Josh Powell, where`d he say Susan was when he left? Was she supposed to be in bed or was she up dressed?
CASAREZ: I think she was dressed. I don`t think she was in bed. But nothing has ever been found from her. And as far as a lie detector test, Nancy, with everything we knew, he never gave a lie detector test.
GRACE: Now, I agree -- Elaine in Illinois, don`t go anywhere. I could have told you without even asking. This guy would hardly cooperate with police, much less submit to a lie detector. In fact, the biggest statement he gave was a self-serving manifesto he gave to "The Deseret News," which we happen to have with us.
For those of us just joining us, 28-year-old stock broker and mother of two, Susan Powell, goes missing, coincidentally on the night her husband takes their two little boys camping in sub-zero weather in the snow at midnight. He says when he gets home, she has vanished.
In the last hours, we learn remains have been found out in the desert. Are those remains the body of Susan Powell? We are taking your calls, and with us tonight, Susan`s father.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Speculation comes from Josh`s story that he took his 2 and 4-year-old sons camping in the freezing cold of the West Desert on the night Susan disappeared from their West Valley home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know there was quite a huge effort out in the West Desert looking for any sign of her. Is that where you were camping?
JOSHUA POWELL: I just have to go get my boys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are working to determine how long the remains have been there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The remains look like they`ve been outside in the elements for quite some time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And whether they are connected to Susan Powell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: December 7th, 2009, a blizzard hits West Valley City, Utah, and Josh Powell claims he and his two sons are camping in the dead of night. Wife and mom Susan is left at home sleeping.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Searches for Susan have reportedly been conducted in the area before, and the location of the remains is nearly halfway between the Powell family home and the location that husband Josh Powell...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Are these remains found out in the desert those of 28-year-old stockbroker and mother of two little boys, Susan Powell? In the last hours, we learn the remains have been taken to the medical examiner`s office, and they were being analyzed as we speak. We understand that somewhere nearby, a pair of blue jeans have been found. Don`t know if they`re connected to the remains. The remains have been scattered -- very, very difficult to put a body together like that.
To Dr. Bill Manion, medical examiner from Burlington County. There are over 200 bones in the human body, are there not?
DR. BILL MANION, MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: That`s correct, yes.
GRACE: So finding, like, this little tip of a finger or part of an ankle or a toe -- it`s very difficult to put a human body back together again once it`s been scattered in this way.
MANION: They`ll be digging up the ground and sifting the dirt in an effort to get every bone that they can find. The most important bones that they can find are the jaw and mandible, part of the skull, because if we have the teeth, we can be very, very accurate in identification.
GRACE: Now, much as dental records can be compared, correct?
MANION: That`s correct. That`s right.
GRACE: Right, and...
MANION: So we want to find the skull.
GRACE: And you don`t necessarily -- let`s follow up with that with Heather Walsh-Haney, forensic anthropology, Florida Gulf Coast University. Heather, you put it so eloquently when you explain how you can even determine whether you`ve got a woman of Asian descent, a woman of Hispanic, African-American, white descent, and we often can tell the age of the body by the mouth alone. How?
HEATHER WALSH-HANEY, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST: Absolutely. When you look at the shape of the crowns of the teeth, for example, folks of Asian ancestry on the tongue side of the blade-shaped teeth in front, they`ll have shoveling on them, ridges that go around the teeth that you can feel with your tongue that would help differentiate Asians from Europeans, for example.
We can also look at the shape of the mouth itself. We would look at how broad, how rectangular, how elliptical the shape is in order to identify the ancestry of the individual.
GRACE: Isn`t true, Heather, you are telling me, explaining to me how with a woman, you actually have kind of a point at the end of the chin that you don`t have on a male?
WALSH-HANEY: Yes, Nancy. You don`t need me anymore! You`re learning everything.
GRACE: I`m learning it all from you, heather. Explain it.
WALSH-HANEY: Thank you. So for women, on the midline of our chin, we have a point there. Males will have a bi-lobed or a chin that has two points on either side. If we get that mandible, it`s very easy to tell the difference between males and females.
GRACE: And isn`t it true, Jean Casarez, that there was a lot of marital trouble going on at the time she disappeared?
CASAREZ: There were a lot. They were in the process of, I believe, filing for divorce even, so it was a very bad situation. And Josh went with the boys allegedly camping early evening, so she would not have been in bed.
GRACE: You are seeing video now of the search for 28-year-old Susan Cox Powell. Remains found out in the desert. Are they those of Susan Cox Powell? Her 2-year-old little boy doesn`t understand where Mommy is now. Shortly after she goes missing, Daddy packs up the whole kit and caboodle and heads out of town.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has Susan Powell`s body been found?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty-eight-year-old Powell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Susan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Susan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She disappeared from her home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was gone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nowhere to be found.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without a trace.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A local attorney who was working on his family`s farm found the remains late Sunday night.
JOSHUA POWELL: I`ve been trying to figure out what I can do so I don`t sit idle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. I`m going to take you down to Clearwater and Orlando for the latest on tot mom Casey Anthony`s jury selection. A lot going on down there.
But we are just learning that remains have been found out in the desert. Are they remains of 28-year-old stock broker and mother of two little boys, Susan Powell?
I want to go back to Jim Kirkwood, KTKK. Jim, their marriage was in a mess. There were a lot of marital problems at the time she went missing. For one thing, wasn`t she the one paying all the bills, he`s lounging on the sofa saying he`s looking for a job?
KIRKWOOD: That`s exactly right. According to some of her friends, she was about ready...
GRACE: Come on, Jim! That`s bad. A woman can do bad on her own. Why does she need a guy to help her do badly?
KIRKWOOD: I have no idea. It`s a sad story. And Josh Powell`s family is an even greater disaster, we`ve learned. I mean, this is a dysfunctional family, and you wish she`d have just gotten out rather than probably dying. It`s a shame, Nancy. It`s a tragedy.
GRACE: Now, let me ask you this, Jim. What was the last time people saw Susan Powell with her husband?
KIRKWOOD: It was that Sunday, I believe the 5th or 6th of December of 2009. They went -- she went to church. She had some friends over, and that sort of thing. So visited with people. Everything seemed normal, but she had told friends she was pulling the plug in April on their anniversary if things hadn`t improved.
GRACE: And then the following Monday after she goes missing, he says he didn`t show up for work because he forgot it was Monday.
To Rupa Mikkilineni. Rupa, explain to me -- the portion of the body that was found, was it a torso or the lower half?
MIKKILINENI: We`re hearing that it was a grisly discovery, Nancy. It was the discovery of a lower torso of the body. And that was initially found. And then afterwards, parts of the body spread across that area, not too far.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. In just a few moments, we`re heading down to Florida and the latest in the jury selection for tot mom Casey Anthony facing the Florida death penalty, death by needle, lethal injection. So far, the judge unable to seat a jury.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To lose a child is the worst thing that this earth has to serve on anyone.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: I was pissed off.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It changes the way you see the world. It`s out of the natural order of things no matter the circumstance of that loss.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Casey Anthony must also be aware of this at the jail. They might be taking her away from the television.
CASEY ANTHONY: People have been lying to you guys.
CHIEF JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, CIRCUIT JUDGE, ORANGE COUNTY: Do you think you could be a fair and impartial juror?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do not think that I could be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was mad.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Casey Anthony was very visually upset when she heard that the corpse had been found.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She collapsed into the chair, hyperventilating.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: If you said the remains one more time, I`m walking out this court.
GRACE: A member of tot mom`s defense team.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She`s married to this guy, Oscar Ray Boland.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oscar, do you take Rosalee to be your lawful wedded wife?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I now pronounce you husband and wife.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. We are now switching gears and heading down to Clearwater in Orlando, Florida. Tot mom on trial. Her trial finally under way in the murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee.
Caylee`s body found just 15 houses from the Anthonys` home. Today a complete shift in tot mom`s appearance and demeanor in court, laughing, smiling, joking throughout the day in front of the jury panel.
But that`s not the headlines. Tot mom jurors arrested.
Out to Diane Dimond joining us, special correspondent "Newsweek." She`s there at the courthouse with Jean Casarez.
Diane, what happened?
DIANE DIMOND, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, NEWSWEEK, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, we`ve gone through about 40 people so far. We have seated so far about 17, and three of them, Nancy, do have some sort of arrest records. Two of them are DUIs, one of them is a 70-something year old woman, happened years ago.
But one of them sort of made us all chuckle in the courtroom. He looks like he`s about 18 years old but I think he`s in his mid-20s and he said he was in Tennessee once and got caught with something to smoke.
GRACE: OK. Jean Casarez.
DIMOND: Marijuana, I suppose.
GRACE: That`s not good. So, so far we`ve got, I think, three or four jurors that have been arrested.
CASAREZ: All right, that`s not good, but that guy, he is very pro the death penalty. He says he will not consider mercy. That when people know that they`ve done something wrong, it doesn`t matter what age they are. So he`s actually a prosecution juror, Nancy.
GRACE: And I understand today, tot mom had a completely different demeanor although she`s still freezing out her defense attorney -- lead defense attorney Jose Baez. Won`t look at him, talk to him -- in trial. She`s been talking, joking, touching on the arms and hands the other lawyers there.
What happened? Why the sudden shift in personality, Jean?
CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, I`m seeing her as serious, and she`s writing many notes. She`s discussing the jurors with her attorneys. You`re right, I don`t see contact with Mr. Baez, but she`s really ingrained in the process.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Unleash the lawyers. Both trial veterans, Jason Oshins, joining us out of New York. Alex Sanchez also out of New York. Both defense attorneys.
Jason Oshins, the look you want to project in front of the courtroom, in front of that jury panel, I don`t know if laughing and joking is the right look.
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, but you know, you want to seem relaxed, you want to seem serious, you want to seem that you`re in focus with everything that`s going on. And his is going outside the -- you know, the bounds a bit, but yes, joking and laughing is never going to be appropriate when you`re being watched in a murder trial.
We`re talking about right now.
GRACE: Alex Sanchez, jurors arrested? Now I`ve got to share that on my first bank robbery case. I ended up having a bank robber, a convicted bank robber on the jury. It was not on his jury questionnaire, and I found out too late, I didn`t want to throw him off then.
So long story short, you know, at least he understood the inner workings of bank robberies. I don`t know if it`s going to help tot mom in that matter or hurt her to have people with arrests and/or convictions on her jury. Weigh in.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, having an arrest record does not necessarily preclude you from being on a jury. There may be some time five years, 10 years, but sooner or later, I mean, society assumes you`re rehabilitated and you could sit on a jury and, you know, be fair like everybody else.
But if I knew someone had a criminal arrest record, I probably would want them on the jury. Because they may not --
GRACE: As a defense lawyer.
SANCHEZ: Right. They may have had bad experiences with the police or the prosecutors, and they`re secretly harboring some resentment. And if I`m Jose Baez I want somebody on the jury that has resentment against the police.
GRACE: And we learn -- back to you, Diane Dimond -- that one of the jurors is what we call stealth juror, trying to get onto the jury for alternative reasons, ulterior motives. We had one juror like this last week and now another one. This one says he`s already got the title of his book and the book cover. His tell-all about tot mom`s jury trial once he can get in the jury box.
DIMOND: Yes, there have been several people who say, yes, I think she`s guilty. But I think that I could probably, you know, judge her fairly. This one particular one you`re talking about, African-American, young man said, no, I haven`t talked to anybody about this at all. Well, they looked up his Facebook page. I`m sitting in court right behind the state. I see them do this.
It turns out on his Facebook page he`s laughing and joking with his pals about, yes, look at me, boy, maybe I need an agent. I`ve already got the cover for the book. Well, guess what happened for him? He got tossed.
GRACE: And to you Natisha Lance, how far have we gotten and how far do have to go before we can seat a jury and let the evidence begin?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, there`s 17 jurors so far, 10 men and 7 women. Now tomorrow the judge wants to call about three or four more, and then he says it`s going to be up to both sides to start using those strikes. So people are saying quite possibly this trial could start as early as Thursday.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Charlene from Massachusetts. Hi, Charlene. What`s your question?
CHARLENE, CALLER FROM MASSACHUSETTS: Yes, I have a couple of questions.
GRACE: OK.
CHARLENE: Is it the norm for the accused to be in the courtroom for jury selection in Florida? Because I`m from Massachusetts, and I was called on jury duty. And the defendant was not in the room during selection.
GRACE: So your question is, is it normal for the defendant to be in the courtroom? Yes, it is.
CHARLENE: In court.
GRACE: It is normal for the defendant to be in the courtroom. Under our constitution you have a right to be present at every integral part of your trial, and that would include jury selection.
What`s your next question, Charlene?
CHARLENE: Yes. I know there`s been a lot said about her mannerisms.
GRACE: Yes.
CHARLENE: Her emotional reactions and also her clothing. And I`m just curious as to how she gets her wardrobe because she`s been in jail for two and a half years.
GRACE: Good question.
Jean Casarez, she does look like an ad for Talbot`s or possibly Ann Taylor, which is a far cry from how she looked just before she was arrested on that stripper pole in the mini skirt. Where does she get the clothes, Jean?
CASAREZ: Well, she`s getting the clothes -- they are being taken to the jail. She doesn`t get them herself, obviously. But the demeanor is very soft pastel, a very motherly demure look.
GRACE: From whom? Is her mom bringing them?
CASAREZ: I think defense attorneys -- I don`t think the mother is bringing them or having them transported. The defense attorneys are responsible for that.
GRACE: Yes. Because we`ve noticed, Diane Dimond, that George, Cindy, and Lee Anthony are no-shows in court. I`m only assuming based on the fact that tot mom rejected Cindy Anthony -- her mother`s visit at the jailhouse on Mother`s Day weekend, the Sunday, the weekend before trial, jury selection started on Monday.
She rejects her. Cindy shows up to try to see her daughter. Tot mom rejects her, Cindy leaves money for her. Of course, she takes the money but she rejects the visit.
Explain, Diane Dimond, do you think it`s all twisted up in the fact that tot mom may blame George and Lee Anthony for sexual molestation?
DIMOND: Yes. You know I have watched her very closely, and I think on Wednesday "The Daily Beast" will release my next piece on the many face of Casey Anthony. This is a girl who is either a very good actress or there`s something wrong with her. When you look at her demeanor, it is -- it goes from robotic to mad, to like a little child sucking on her sleeves. I did finally see her talk to Jose Baez once time but only one time in a week.
GRACE: What does it mean, Aaron Brehove, body language expert, joining us out of Dallas? Aaron, weigh in.
AARON BREHOVE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT, INSTRUCTOR, BODY LANGUAGE INSTITUTE: Well, one of the things we`re seeing here, she`s laughing, she`s playing around a little bit, and this is a little dangerous if all the jurors are going to based -- understanding her. If she`s showing emotion now and she doesn`t when we start talking about Caylee, her daughter that was -- in this horrible state.
If she doesn`t show emotions there, that`s when there`s going to be some really hard questions to answer and it`s going to look very bad for her when the jurors come back and they`re watching her.
GRACE: With us, Carolyn --
BREHOVE: And also --
GRACE: -- Robbins Manley, jury consultant out of Miami. Do you agree, Carolyn, with Aaron`s analysis?
CAROLYN ROBBINS MANLEY, JURY CONSULTANT: Well, I think, you know, she went from nervous wreck, high anxiety person to now some sort of jovial personality. I mean I don`t think either one of them are going to work. I think she needs to look serious and respectful of the court. And I think the jurors are going to scrutinize every moment she`s sitting there.
GRACE: Well, Carolyn, what do you make of these jurors that have been arrested?
MANLEY: Yes, well, I don`t think the prosecution can be too happy about it. I mean anybody -- you always take a risk when somebody has been through the system. You don`t want them to distrust the evidence, you don`t want them to distrust the justice system. It`s a real risk. I don`t think the prosecution wants them at all.
GRACE: Even in light of (INAUDIBLE) attempts to slow down the trial, Lady Justice is marching forward. The trial for tot mom has begun, and in the next few days we expect that jury of 12 to be seated. Let the evidence begin.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The list of potential jurors in the trial of Casey Anthony is now being narrowed down.
CASEY ANTHONY: I thought they were giving us extra time.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Her life is on the line.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why did he she wait a month to report her daughter missing?
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: No, I only have five minutes.
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: That question will be answered within --
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live in Florida, as the jury selection for tot mom Casey Anthony goes on. The judge even working over the weekend. Tonight we learned jurors arrested. That`s right. Of course, they`re not going to make it on to the jury. As one juror claims he`s already got a book title and cover prepared for a tot mom trial tell-all. He`s been booted, and that`s not the end of it.
Let`s go out to Leonard Padilla who bailed tot mom out of jail the first time, joining us out of Sacramento.
Leonard, what do you make of the goings on in court and of tot mom`s demeanor?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, BAIL TOT MOM OUT OF JAIL: Well, when she got in that argument with Baez, that`s typical of Casey. If you disagree with her on an issue, no matter how minor or how major it is, she`s going to be just turned off at you.
And that`s exactly what happened. I don`t know what the argument was about, but whatever it was, she`s going to demonstrate her ability to just shut down and stay away from there. As far as her demeanor, it will go through about three or four different phases.
When we were around her for those 10 days in Florida, Tracy and Rob can tell you that many a time on way to the attorney`s office, on the way home from the attorney`s office, it was always a constant which Casey is going to show up today. And I think that`s what`s happening in the courtroom.
As far as the jury selection and all that, I don`t see the trial starting before Monday.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. He has been a tireless crusader for victims after the murder of his little girl Polly.
Marc, you were there. You were there from the get-go and the trial of the man that took the life of your daughter. Are you surprised that Georgia and Cindy and Lee Anthony are not there? And what type of jurors do you believe should be on the case? You`ve been there.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I firmly and totally believe in the jury system, and I have no doubt that the judge will be able or that the court will be able to see 12 jurors and as many alternates as they need to give this woman a good and fair trial.
As far as George and Cindy and Lee not being there, it looks more and more like they`re going to start pointing the fingers at the family, and I can imagine it would be very, very difficult for them to participate in that.
On the other hand, I believe if they want to attend the trial, they have every right in the world to attend every moment of that trial because as well as being the family of Casey Anthony, they were also the grandparents and uncle of Caylee Anthony.
And the whole idea of keeping victims` families out of the courtroom I think is an idea that should have ended with the 20th century.
GRACE: Well put, Marc Klaas.
To Ellen Gambers, psychotherapist. What do you make of the fact that George, Cindy, and Lee Anthony are no-shows during jury selection?
ELLEN GAMBERS, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I think that under the circumstance they`re trying to keep the focus on their daughter, stay away, and take the spotlight out of them as well as keep their profile so that they don`t have any involvement or look like they have any involvement.
GRACE: Another issue, Tom Shamshak, former police chief, private investigator, instructor at Boston University, joining us out of Boston.
Is the security surrounding this jury, they`re going to have to be sequestered for many, many weeks. Explain.
TOM SHAMSHAK, FMR. POLICE CHIEF, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, INSTRUCTOR AT BOSTON UNIV.: Nancy, good evening. Yes, there will be 24-hour a day coverage. That means three shifts and this is seven days a week. And when they do have meetings with their loved ones, law enforcement will be monitoring those interactions so that there`s no influence or any undue influence from the media to these individuals.
And you can suspect that the courthouse will have also a ramped-up security here to ensure that nothing disrupts this trial, Nancy.
GRACE: Another thing, to Diane Dimond. I understand George and Cindy Anthony are threatening to sue their former lawyer. Why?
DIMOND: Yes. Well, this is the third lawyer that they`ve had. And so they have the third lawyer threatening to sue this second lawyer --
GRACE: Now, hold on, Diane Dimond. Hold on. Hold on. I don`t know.
DIMOND: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: You know, you`ve been around plenty of lawyers. You know I don`t necessarily blame them for booting a lawyer and getting a new one. You know you`ve got to kick the tires a little bit.
DIMOND: Right.
GRACE: Before you find the right lawyer. But go ahead, why sue their lawyer?
DIMOND: Well, they`ve got a good one now. I`ve talked to them. I think they`re all have been good. But their latest one, Mr. Lippman, is going to sue Brad Conway, the second one, because he says Brad Conway has been talking too much to the media about the Anthonys. And of course Conway says he hasn`t been doing anything that isn`t public knowledge.
GRACE: But wait a minute.
Jean Casarez, doesn`t he actually have to violate attorney/client privilege before he can be sued?
CASAREZ: And that`s what Mark Lippman is insinuating that he`s done. But remember, Nancy, if you file a grievance before the state bar, you know what happens that? They have to investigate. And so based on attorney/client privilege, then you`ve in a sense dissolved the privilege because you`ve got to talk to the bar association about that grievance.
GRACE: But him just talking about George and Cindy Anthony doesn`t necessarily mean he`s breached attorney/client privilege, or has he, Jean?
CASAREZ: No. No. What I`ve heard is just opinion, and the First Amendment right you can state your opinion.
GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls live. And very quickly to tonight`s case alert. If this is the law, the law is enacted.
Connecticut high school senior James Tate barred from the high school prom. He posted a big sign on school property asking Sonali Rodrigues to be his date. Tate and two friends who helped him suspended, banned for trespassing and posing a safety risk?
Justice tonight. After the school headmistress reverses her decision, Tate -- the Tate man and the ladder man, and Sonali will be at the prom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES TATE, HIGH SCHOOL SENIOR: I did it to make her feel special and I feel like I accomplished that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I never thought that such a decision would lead to international notoriety, as I make tough, unpopular decisions on a daily basis.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: Can you look at her and say, she`s 100 percent innocent right now?
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live at the jury selection of tot mom Casey Anthony in the murder trial for the death of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee.
Joining us, high-profile criminal profiler, Pat Brown.
Pat, weigh in.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "THE PROFILER": I think they -- no, I wish they`d polygraph the entire jury because quite frankly I think some people are trying to lie themselves on to the jury and some are trying to lie themselves off of the jury.
I think it`s kind of funny that we think they`re all telling the truth. And I think they`re going to have an interesting time with Casey because she`s exhibiting psychopathy along with a lot of attention getting. I think her lawyers are going to have trouble corralling her and the jury is going to be sometimes confused because they`re going to see that personality flip back and forth depending on her mood of the day and they`re going to need the prosecution there to really explain that to them exactly what they`re looking at.
GRACE: You know, and just imagine what Caylee went through with her mother and her ups and her downs.
Very quickly. To Jean Casarez, why can`t we do more of a background search on the jurors? Constitutionally?
CASAREZ: Well, constitutionally, I guess it`s their right and they can say yay or nay. But Nancy, I see a lot of stealth jurors. I really do, Nancy.
GRACE: We do. The jury selection goes on. We`ll be there tomorrow morning bright and early in the courtroom.
Let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Matthew Boule, 22, Dracut, Massachusetts, killed Iraq. Awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Achievement. Wanted to enlist since age 4 when he dressed in camouflage. Lost his life 72 hours after proposing to his girlfriend.
Loved paint ball, soccer, street hockey, his niece and best friend, Britney. Dreamed of flying Blackhawk helicopters. Leaves behind parents Sue and Leo. Brothers Michael and Christopher. Sister, Wendy. Fiancee, Kat.
Matthew Boule, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you.
And tonight we need your help for Marc Klaas, president, founder, KlaasKids Foundation and Beyond Missing. Since the murder of his daughter Polly, he`s a tireless crusader for victims. Let`s keep his funding going.
To donate, go to beyondmissing.com/donate.
And happy anniversary to Georgia friends Richard and Helen Kite, 62 years together. You are an inspiration to all of us.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
