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Joy Behar Page
Arnold`s Secret Love Child; Jesse James Blasts Bullock; IMF Rape Scandal
Aired May 17, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, the shocking truth behind the Schwarzenegger/Shriver split is finally out as the former governor comes clean about fathering a child out of wedlock.
Then powerful IMF chief Dominique Straus-Kahn lands in jail on attempted rape charges; Joy wants to know, why do men in power keep getting into this kind of trouble?
Plus, Donny and Marie Osmond are together for their first album in 30 years and they`ll tell Joy all about the reunion.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: When Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver split last week, Arnold made a point of saying that he and Maria had four great kids together. Well, it turns out Arnold has a fifth great kid but not with Maria which might explain why they split. Arnold fessed up to the "L.A. Times" that over ten years ago he fathered a child with a staffer. He said, quote, "There are no excuses and I take full responsibility for the hurt I have caused. While I deserve your attention and criticism, my family does not."
He`s right. They don`t, but he does.
Joining me now to talk about the shocking confession are: John Connolly, contributing editor for "Vanity Fair" magazine who published the first piece on Arnold`s groping allegations for "Premier" magazine back in 2001; Howard Bragman, celebrity publicist and founder of "15 Minutes"; and Judy Kuriansky, also known as Dr. Judy, clinical psychologist.
John let me start with you. You`ve been covering Arnold for a while. Does this confession surprise you at all, this latest revelation?
JOHN CONNOLLY, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "VANITY FAIR": This is not a confession. Somebody was pressuring him to do this.
BEHAR: Right.
CONNOLLY: Arnold -- I keep on worrying about when I leave your studio that there`s going to be all these little terminators running around coming after me. Rest assured this is not the first child. I know at least one and I`m sure there are lots more.
BEHAR: What do you mean? Wait a minute, wait a minute. You know about this child, but you`re saying there`s another one?
CONNOLLY: There`s somebody who has been written about in the past. I`m not going to say the kid`s name, I`m not going to do that, but this is -- and I saw the kid 20 feet from me. That`s the long of it --
BEHAR: But John, what is the proof you have of that?
CONNOLLY: Well, About five different people told me about it and all the stories were the same. And the woman denied it and I don`t blame her, but when you look at the child you go -- I expected the kid to say, "Hasta luego, baby". I mean I really did.
BEHAR: The child that we`re talking about in this particular moment, have you seen that kid?
CONNOLLY: No, I`ve not. No.
BEHAR: But you have seen what you allege is another child?
CONNOLLY: Yes. And there`s two other kids that I`ve known about that I suspect might be his children.
BEHAR: Howard, what else is going to come out of the woodwork? Howard?
HOWARD BRAGMAN, CELEBRITY PUBLICIST: Oh my God. This is amazing. This is a great story, Joy. This is amazing. We can`t imagine --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, if it`s true. I mean we don`t know if it`s true; John says it but I met you once before, John.
CONNOLLY: Yes, you did.
BEHAR: I don`t know you that well that I can believe this.
CONNOLLY: I`m not saying who the child is so we`re not going to get sued or anything but we`re in good shape.
BEHAR: Howard?
BRAGMAN: It`s all over -- well, first of all, it`s all over the Internet who the first child is, number one. That just broke a few minutes ago. The second thing is it`s kind of shocking. When this announcement happened a week ago that they were splitting up, you just knew stuff was going to come out. And now it`s going to be the slow painful burn while all this stuff comes out because these things never just happen once and they go away.
BEHAR: So Howard this idea, Howard that we should respect their privacy and please leave everybody alone is not going to happen, is it?
BRAGMAN: You know, we live in a world -- I promise you this, the new child and the mother, there`s a price between a half million dollars and a million dollars on their head for the first paparazzi picture and the identification. They will find him quicker than they found Osama bin Laden, ok? I promise you.
BEHAR: But, you know, John, how did he get away with this so long?
CONNOLLY: Well, he had a lot of press people, a lot of fear. I mean Arnold was a powerful character. He made billions and billions of dollars for the studio, he had a lot of powerful people and the rule was if you asked him the wrong question the interview was over.
BEHAR: I see.
CONNOLLY: And so we`re clear, I helped the piece that he`s talking about --
BEHAR: He also was employing a lot of people with all the "Terminator" pictures and everything. So nobody wants to talk when you`re working for him.
CONNOLLY: But he was a really mean person.
BEHAR: He was mean?
CONNOLLY: He was mean to everybody.
BEHAR: Really?
CONNOLLY: And the fights that went on with Maria and he over the years were legend. I knew people who would not go to dinner parties at their house any longer because they`d start to fight, knock-down drag-them- out brawl in front of guests.
BEHAR: Well, you say Judy that you were at their engagement party?
DR. JUDY KURIANSKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I was at their engagement party.
BEHAR: Did you witness this drag-down part?
KURIANSKY: No, it was fun and roses. It was all -- those were the happy days in the beginning.
BEHAR: The happy minutes.
KURIANSKY: The minutes. Right. But you know it was very interesting, because many of us, like the parents, were thinking this is an unusual couple here. But from a psychological point of view, we have a phrase called "the exotic is erotic" which makes sense, because he was just so exotic and that attracted her.
And I noticed -- I mean he was shorter than I thought that he would be and also very broad so --
BEHAR: Well, that`s from all the lifting, but listen to Maria defend Arnold against groping allegations in 2003. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARIA SHRIVER, ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER`S WIFE: You can listen to all the negativity and you can listen to the people who have never met Arnold or who met him for five seconds 30 years ago; or you can listen to me. I advise you to listen to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know, she sounds like the good wife. But she sounds very sincere, doesn`t she? She really is a good actress, isn`t she John?
CONNOLLY: She`s a very good actress. And in truth, he talked about being present. If you`ll recall when Republicans were running the government there was talk about maybe changing the laws where he could run for president. She didn`t want to be the president`s wife? Of course she did. She`s a Kennedy.
BEHAR: Yes. Right.
CONNOLLY: I mean this was -- she was governor`s wife.
BEHAR: So to that point, Judy, I`m not surprised about any of this, that Maria married someone who could have been a cheater because she comes from a family of cheaters. We`ve all lived through the Kennedy years. We know what was going on, going back to Joseph P. who was sleeping with Gloria Swanson. You know what I mean? It`s like old history with them. And she`s part of the family.
KURIANSKY: Right. But she said -- she did tell Oprah once she was not bred for being that kind of wife. But I tell you, in my psychological view they could have stayed together, I bet, like Bill and Hill, you know, if --
CONNOLLY: Oh, no. No.
KURIANSKY: If this hadn`t happened because --
CONNOLLY: No, you`re missing the point. This is a big lie.
KURIANSKY: I understand because the child -- the child breaks the whole thing. Then Maria -- look. She -- she has conferences for women. She has to be a role model for empowered women. She can`t let this just go shoveled under the carpet. That`s my view.
BEHAR: John --
(CROSSTALK)
CONNOLLY: I would bet substantial amount of money that the reason why she finally pulled the plug on this guy was that when he was in films he was with more women than he has hair left on his head and she does not want him to go back to films and do that again.
BEHAR: Oh, I see.
CONNOLLY: So she`s going to go back to that life? Oh, please.
BEHAR: You don`t think that this was the tipping point, this child revelation?
CONNOLLY: Oh, not at all. She made this decision when he made it very clear he was going back to work.
BEHAR: Wow, I`m not sure that I agree with that. We don`t really know. But when you find out that this is going to be in the paper that he has a love child and you`re saying another one.
CONNOLLY: She left him -- this is like weeks ago.
(CROSSTALK)
KURIANSKY: And many others, that would be.
CONNOLLY: Oh, scores.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: All right. Let me get back to Howard for a second. Let me read Maria`s statement. Ok.
She says, "This is a painful and heart breaking time as a mother. My concern is for the children. I ask for compassion, respect and privacy as my children and I try to rebuild our lives and heal." Now, she has to be pissed, Howard, right?
BRAGMAN: Oh, big time. Big time.
BEHAR: She left her job for him. She defended him against allegations that may have been true. She supported a Republican. Oh, that hurts. For a Kennedy to support a Republican and this is what she gets in return?
KURIANSKY: Right.
BRAGMAN: He was kind of a Republican light. He was a Republican for gay marriage, and the fact that she was by his side is really what got him through the groping charges, and I think got him elected in a state that`s pretty cynical about Republicans.
Yes, everybody feels bad for Maria; this just sucks and not in a good way. This is just as heinous an act as you can do for somebody you purport to love and respect. It`s total disrespect.
BEHAR: Is his career over Howard? You`re a publicist. Is his career over in the movies?
BRAGMAN: No, it`s not. People do crappy things in Hollywood all the time and given enough time and given the right roles, we`ll think Arnold`s cute and funny again. But you know, women have never been his primary audience and I certainly don`t see a lot of women who are going to flocking to his movies now.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, you know, a 60-year-old action here, Howard and I`ve seen pictures, he`s flabby now. He hasn`t been lifting. He doesn`t look as good.
BRAGMAN: He still wears the Speedo. He still wears the Speedos, ok? I don`t know if that`s a good fashion choice, but he`ll choose the right roles. He`s got great people on his team. He`s very smart about the film business. He`s not going to try and recreate what he had. He`s going to do it new with a little wink and a nod to the past. And professionally --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Is it over, John, for him?
BRAGMAN: -- he`ll get through this.
BEHAR: All right. But is it over for Maria?
CONNOLLY: No, there`s always third acts in Hollywood. You know that.
BEHAR: But is it over for Maria?
CONNOLLY: I cannot see her going back after this.
BEHAR: How does she get over the public humiliation -- before we go, Judy?
KURIANSKY: I think she builds up a new part of her career and she`s already done it. She`s gone on the net and she has reached out to women and they`ll support her.
BEHAR: Oh, yes. We`ll be -- we`re backing Maria all the way.
CONNOLLY: As well you should.
BEHAR: As well we should. Ok. Thank you very much, you guys, very much. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: It turns out that while Arnold Schwarzenegger -- Schwarzenegger was downsizing the government of California he was increasing the size of his family, unbeknownst to his wife Maria Shriver. Here to talk about the Gropenator`s love child and other stories in the news are Mary Murphy, one of the judges of "So You Think You Can Dance" -- you have to say it like that; Rob Shuter, AOL`s Popeater columnist; and comedian Bobby Collins whom I haven`t seen in years.
So welcome to the show, you guys.
MARY MURPHY, JUDGE, "SO YOU THINK YOU CAN DANCE": Thank you.
BEHAR: Now, all right, Rob, he was rumored to have cheated on Maria multiple times, but a love child?
ROB SHUTER, COLUMNIST, OAL, POPEATER.COM: Yes. And the child`s 10 years old, so this child has been around for a long time.
This brings up so many questions. Did she know about the child? She claimed when he was accused of groping women that he didn`t. The child was 3 years old when she said that. So the child had already been born so I think this is going to be a story that`s going to go on for a long time.
BEHAR: And there are other rumors going around which we won`t do right now, but Bobby, what about Maria? She has no choice -- she had no choice but to dump the guy at this point, right?
BOBBY COLLINS, COMEDIAN: She`s a Kennedy. None of us ever saw them together anyway. Of course, she`s got to dump the guy. Especially if he can`t -- if he came with a -- he went from the germinator -- from the governator to the sperminator.
MURPHY: Oh my.
BEHAR: That`s right.
COLLINS: I mean he`s a better actor than I thought.
BEHAR: But why would she -- what -- what is it in him that attracted her? I don`t get it, the attraction to him?
MURPHY: I don`t get it either. And the fact that he`s saying, please just leave you know, my wife and kids alone and respect them now, well, he didn`t respect them. My God, and did he think about the child now? That just found out that this is not his father.
COLLINS: Yes but wait a minute.
BEHAR: That the kid -- the kid --
(CROSSTALK)
MURPHY: Yes.
BEHAR: Well, we don`t know that. He has been supporting the child from the get-go.
MURPHY: Well, he`s been supporting the child but the kid thinks --
BEHAR: The other guy is the father. That`s true.
MURPHY: That`s right.
COLLINS: But there`s a reason -- come on, there`s a reason why they didn`t give him any lines in the movies. Action. I`ll be back. Cut. You know?
BEHAR: Do you think -- wait a minute, do you think the kid talks like that?
COLLINS: Yes, I`ll be back. You are my father.
BEHAR: This is so wrong of us.
MURPHY: That`s bad. That`s not good.
BEHAR: I mean, you know, the thing about this story is that it`s really --
MURPHY: It`s sad.
BEHAR: It`s a sad story, sort of. But nobody died so let`s not pretend that it`s a really sad story.
COLLINS: Right and did his kid play with the family`s kids?
SHUTER: They did, the kids -- the kids played together. Maria -- she knew this child. She might not have known Arnold was the father but she knew this child existed out there. She`s met the child --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Exactly.
SHUTER: So there`s a lot of questions that are still got to be answered.
BEHAR: I mean it`s got to hurt Maria to know that this person who worked in the household for 20 years was keeping that from her. So the husband betrays her, and her employee.
COLLINS: Right.
SHUTER: And what happens if the --
COLLINS: And he`s always had a reputation of a --
BEHAR: Oh yes.
MURPHY: He did, he even hit on my makeup artist in two seconds --
SHUTER: He did.
MURPHY: Two seconds in an elevator. That`s all she was. The door shut, the two of them in there, and he leans down and says, do you want to kiss me. And she backed up and she`s like --
SHUTER: Who -- who is this?
BEHAR: Her makeup artist.
MURPY: Well -- well, one of my makeup artists. I`m not going to say which one, but this is true. And -- and in such a short period of time. I mean can you imagine on a daily basis how many women, though, that he has hit on. This is somebody he`d never seen before.
SHUTER: She must have known. She must have known.
MURPHY: She had to see it.
SHUTER: And this is going to open the floodgates now -- every single person that he`s ever hit on, including your makeup artist is now going to --
(CROSSTALK)
MURPHY: This is going to be bigger than Tiger, I could tell you that. That`s going to be --
SHUTER: This is the start of the end.
BEHAR: Yes, yes, yes.
Well, you know there`s a lot of dirt bags in the news right now. And it takes a lot to make Donald Trump -- Trump look good these days, but Jesse James is trying his best. In his new memoir -- that`s right, memoir. I guess he and Levi Johnston are the new literary lions.
Anyway, in the memoir, Jesse has been bashing Sandra Bullock nonstop. First he said his fiance Kat Von D is way better in bed. That is so obnoxious. And now he`s telling "Men`s Journal" the following. He says, "I never shied away from anything I did. I took full responsibility. I cheated on my wife. Guess what? So do millions of other men."
Now the "everyone else does it" excuse is not an actual excuse. On the scale of one to Arnold Schwarzenegger, how big a loser is this guy? I ask you.
SHUTER: Oh, he`s the biggest loser.
MURPHY: Loser.
SHUTER: A total loser. What -- what he`s saying, what he`s doing is disgusting. I can`t imagine how hurtful this is to Sandra. And I don`t think it`s going to stop. He`s going to keep doing it as long as people want to listen.
MURPHY: Yes.
COLLINS: She`s America`s sweetheart.
BEHAR: Yes.
COLLINS: So you know, she took a project. This guy is, you know, first of all, have you ever hear him speak? He`s not that high up on brain mountain.
BEHAR: Ok.
COLLINS: You know, he fixes motorcycle so she took the project. You know the girls that like the bad boys. She took the project, she started to make him into what he is and he`s not. He went back to his roots. You can`t teach an old dog new tricks.
BEHAR: So she was marrying a project.
COLLINS: Right. That`s a loser.
MURPHY: She married trash and of course, it doesn`t surprise any of us that he`s talking trash about her right now. I mean --
COLLINS: He`s done. He`s like Trump. He`s over with. It`s over.
MURPHY: His new fiance is going to give him a new tattoo right on the forehead -- "total ass".
BEHAR: Kat Von D.
MURPHY: Kat Von D.
BEHAR: She`s -- she was on the show, she`s all right, she`s a nice girl, I have nothing against her. It`s just that this guy is now bashing Sandra Bullock. He cheats on her, he`s got Nazi salutes going on, and he`s making Sandra Bullock the bad guy.
MURPHY: He`s trying to make a buck on her, which is even -- it`s worse.
COLLINS: Right.
BEHAR: Ok now actually do you think people are buying this book, it`s called "America`s Outlaw". It`s now -- I`m giving him a plug here, meanwhile. It`s number ten on the bestseller list of biographies of the rich and famous on Amazon.
COLLINS: People are always going to buy books like it. Remember we`re sharing the planet with a lot of different types of people. We have to start thinning out the herd.
BEHAR: But what about this remark, you guys here about being better in bed, telling -- telling the world that Kat Von D is better in bed than Sandra Bullock. Is that the lowest --
SHUTER: I think it`s horrific.
MURPHY: The lowest of the low.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Snake. It`s disgusting.
COLLINS: My wife`s Italian. She would be killing me. She went from wearing this little sexy underwear to the big white old cotton thing. I love her to pieces, you can`t break her heart.
BEHAR: You can`t.
Ok, much more to talk about. We`ll be back in a minute.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, Don, how did it go with Joy?
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: She made me cry.
No, I love Joy. Come on. It was like I was sitting on my couch with her, we were having a couple drinks. It was great. She`s the first person that made me laugh today. I`ve been so serious all day, and she made me laugh. So I appreciate that. You have to have a sense of humor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel. Ok.
So the head of the International Monetary Fund is being held without bail at Riker`s on sexual assault charges. A hotel housekeeper claimed he tried to rape her. Of course, he denies it. We`ve seen this story. His lawyers are now claiming, Bobby, that the sex was consensual, that -- this old "she wanted it" excuse. What do you think about that?
COLLINS: $3,000 a night? $3,000 -- he thought the maid came with it. Oh, my God.
BEHAR: Is that what the room costs?
COLLINS: Brings new meaning to the term turn your bed down. I used to hold for like a chocolate.
BEHAR: This is why, you know, is this why more victims of rape and sexual assault do not come forward, because immediately he claims it`s consensual. I mean this is what happens constantly, Mary, right?
MURPHY: Absolutely. And the thing is that men like this that are so powerful, they pick people that are powerless.
SHUTER: Right.
MURPHY: And they think they can just get away with it.
Bravo for her for bringing it up, you know, because she has to go through so much scrutiny herself. You think anybody wants to go through that? You think she`s going to get anything out of it? It`s awful.
BEHAR: You know what his side is saying? He`s saying -- they`re saying that he was set up. That Sarkozy who is the president of France is setting the guy up.
SHUTER: And people are believing this. Some people are believing this.
MURPHY: Everybody has it -- international conspiracy.
COLLINS: And Donald Trump wants to see his birth certificate too.
BEHAR: But I mean, the French journalist Tristan Baron said that he sexually assaulted her like a wedding champ chimpanzee during an interview nine years ago; and two other women have now come out to say the same thing.
COLLINS: Look what he looks like. You can watch him on television. He looks guilty. You put him in any line up, he is the guy they pick. He raped me.
BEHAR: Oh, my gosh.
COLLINS: This guy is disgusting.
BEHAR: Don`t put you on a jury if I ever do a crime.
COLLINS: Have you ever seen a jury of your peers? Cop a plea.
BEHAR: And the other thing is, his wife, by the way, has since -- tell me Rob.
SHUTER: She`s standing by him. She`s saying it`s BS. She`s saying it`s not true. The wife is going to stand by him. But this is a really serious topic. Somebody here claims they were raped and I`m glad that we`re going to do the right thing and find out the truth.
MURPHY: Yes. And I don`t believe she was in the room when it happened so she`ll never know.
BEHAR: Who -- the wife?
SHUTER: The wife. Right.
MURPHY: And there`s more than one person that has come forward. So you have to look to that. It`s a shame more than one -- people have to come forward to make anybody believe you.
BEHAR: They didn`t charge him. They didn`t charge.
MURPHY: A lot of people don`t want to go through all that.
COLLINS: Who comes to the door naked? We all put a towel around us. Come on.
BEHAR: I know. Well, he`s French.
COLLINS: This guy`s French. He`s French.
(CROSSTALK)
MURPHY: When something like this happens you don`t even want to tell anybody about it, for God`s sake.
BEHAR: Is his career over, Rob? He was going to be running against Sarkozy.
SHUTER: It might not be. In France a lot of people are saying he was set up. The opinion in France is very different than the opinion here and he`s running for office in France not here. So his career might not be over.
BEHAR: He can always become a senator in Arizona. Thanks very much.
You can catch Mary Murphy on the new season of Fox`s "So You Think You Can Dance" on May 26th.
And Bobby Collins` latest CD "I`m on the Boat, Women and Children First" is out now, right now.
Plus if you`re in New York, Rob Shuter, AOL`s CEO Tim Armstrong will be at Grand Central Friday selling cupcakes to raise money for the American Cancer Society. That is so macho.
SHUTER: Yes.
BEHAR: We`ll be right back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, why did Marie Osmond remarry her ex-husband after divorcing him 26 years ago? And does Donny approve? Donny and Marie Osmond, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: As members of one of the most successful showbiz families in history, they made their mark in music, theater and variety shows and even hosted a daytime talk show. They`re together now again for the first time. And they`re doing their first album in 30 years, it`s called "Donny & Marie."
How did they come up with that title?
MARIE OSMOND, SINGER: I chose all the songs and gave him the job of coming up with the name.
DONNY OSMOND, SINGER: Spit it out, Marie.
M. OSMOND: Donny and Marie. Took him, you know, about six months. But he was clever.
D. OSMOND: That is not true at all, at all. I chose all the songs.
BEHAR: You can call it, you know, Abbott and Costello, or something.
D. OSMOND: Guess what? We just found out we`re number three on the country charts.
M. OSMOND: Oh, I know.
D. OSMOND: I just found that out before we went on the air. Isn`t that so cool?
BEHAR: I`m telling you.
D. OSMOND: The last time we were on the charts was like 1847 or something like that.
M. OSMOND: I think so. Yes. No, but it`s called good life. We were saying, we`re living the good life. We`re very happy.
BEHAR: And why so long, 30 years?
D. OSMOND: Well, had to get her to stop playing with dolls.
M. OSMOND: Had to get him to grow up.
D. OSMOND: Seriously, Joy, there really wasn`t --
M. OSMOND: We were --
D. OSMOND: There was really no reason because we had our own separate careers and then this anomaly took place in Las Vegas and, you know, we had a six-week deal. Here we are three years later.
BEHAR: But you`re hot again.
D. OSMOND: It`s unbelievable, Joy.
M. OSMOND: I like this set. It is hot.
BEHAR: I was reading somewhere that some PR person told you that to reinvest your career, Donny, you should say you have some kind of addiction. Is that true?
D. OSMOND: What do you think? What would happen if I did?
BEHAR: You would say no to that.
D. OSMOND: But would it work?
BEHAR: Would people believe that you were an addict?
D. OSMOND: Would it be a good pr stunt?
BEHAR: Well, it works for so many people?
D. OSMOND: Exactly. But what would happen years later? How would I talk to my kids? Dad, did you really do that?
BEHAR: No, you could tell your kids it was just a PR stunt.
D. OSMOND: I don`t --
(LAUGHTER)
D. OSMOND: I`m glad you`re not my PR lady. Let me tell you.
M. OSMOND: This is a thinking woman.
BEHAR: And then another thing, maybe this is true of you -- Michael Jackson said you should change your name?
D. OSMOND: He did.
BEHAR: To what?
D. OSMOND: To Ralph Schwartz. Actually, I said he should change his clothes and -- never mind. Never mind. No, that was a joke.
BEHAR: I mean, these are the things people need to know out there. As a celebrity you get this type of advice all the time. And you have to make your own decisions.
D. OSMOND: You`ve got to be true to yourself, Joy. You know that. I mean, everybody`s got an opinion. Everybody says you should do this, you should do that. We`re victims of that. But you know? We stand true.
M. OSMOND: I don`t think victim is the right word.
D. OSMOND: Well, that`s the wrong word, excuse me. We are recipients of that kind of advice, and then we just have to say I`ve got to look at myself in the mirror in the morning. I`ve got to like that person. You got to be true to yourself and that`s what we`ve done.
BEHAR: Yes. It`s like Osama bin Laden, had to look at himself in the mirror.
D. OSMOND: Yes. He`s not doing that much anymore.
M. OSMOND: So, how are we out there?
BEHAR: So, Marie, darling, you got married again.
M. OSMOND: I did.
BEHAR: Congratulations.
M. OSMOND: Thank you.
BEHAR: Now, this guy, let me just hear on the set (ph), you were married to him, many, many months ago.
M. OSMOND: I was.
BEHAR: And you had a kid.
M. OSMOND: Yes, I did.
BEHAR: The child -- you got divorced. Is that allowed in Mormonism to get divorced?
M. OSMOND: It better be. I`ve been divorced a couple times.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Because, you know, the Catholics don`t allow it. I don`t know --
M. OSMOND: I think they do. Well, what you`re saying is in our faith we get married in the temple, which is not death do us part it`s an eternal commitment. And so, you know, in order to receive a temple divorce, there has to be, you know, legit reasons and have it be very --
BEHAR: So what were the reasons? You want to tell me?
M. OSMOND: Not really.
BEHAR: OK. That`s fine. You can say whatever you want. But you had a child. Did you get custody of the child?
M. OSMOND: Well, he`s 28 now.
BEHAR: But he stayed with you, the baby?
M. OSMOND: Well, I mean, we shared in visitation and things like that. Yes.
BEHAR: OK. So, now, you`re done with that marriage for whatever reason.
M. OSMOND: Oh, you`re talking about the second one?
D. OSMOND: No, the first one.
M. OSMOND: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: What is his name?
M. OSMOND: Steve. Same as your Steve.
BEHAR: Same as mine.
M. OSMOND: Yes.
BEHAR: So then you get married to somebody else.
M. OSMOND: I did.
BEHAR: You had a couple kids.
M. OSMOND: For 20 years.
BEHAR: You adopted a couple kids.
M. OSMOND: I can`t remember which one.
BEHAR: That`s good. That`s right. That`s the way it`s supposed to be.
M. OSMOND: Absolutely.
BEHAR: And then you got rid of him. He`s gone now.
M. OSMOND: Yes.
BEHAR: All right.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: On to number three, who happens to be number one.
M. OSMOND: Number one -- wow!
BEHAR: Which is fascinating, because -- I mean, I have trouble with it, to tell you the truth, why -- I would never remarry my ex-husband. I mean, if I wanted to marry him, I would have stayed married. What happened there?
M. OSMOND: Well, you know, it`s interesting. I think time, I think we were young, you know, you get a lot of pressure and opinions and all kinds of things that hit you, and I don`t know. Maybe we both just matured, grew up, and he`s phenomenal. He`s an amazing -- we`ve always just been the same. I don`t know how to explain it other than there`s just a connection.
BEHAR: When did you meet him in the first place?
M. OSMOND: Through our son. You know, we had kind of gone our separate ways.
D. OSMOND: No, in the first place, the very beginning.
BEHAR: No, when you first met him.
M. OSMOND: Oh, like 100 years ago?
D. OSMOND: Tell me something about through your son you met your first husband?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Yes, 100 years ago.
M. OSMOND: He played -- he was a professional basketball, he played, and we met through BYU and I think somebody introduced -- was it one of you brothers, was it you or Jay. I don`t remember.
BEHAR: Nobody remembers.
M. OSMOND: It was a long time ago.
D. OSMOND: Tito was involved somewhere.
BEHAR: Just one more question.
M. OSMOND: Jermaine.
BEHAR: There was a sexual attraction that had carried over from those years?
D. OSMOND: Now, we`re getting into the good questions.
M. OSMOND: OK. So, what you`re asking was, was there always some kind of --
BEHAR: Was there a spark?
M. OSMOND: No, and it was one of those things that really -- Steven, son Steven, said, mom needs some help. And so, you know, he helped move some things, I was kind of left with all these kids, and it wasn`t initially, he was just always a really good friend.
BEHAR: When he came back into the picture.
M. OSMOND: Yes. No, I was definitely divorced and moving on with my life, and truly made a decision that I really just wanted to get my children raised.
I think that every woman does that. But my feeling is, is that you don`t really -- you really shouldn`t be looking for a relationship until you feel like your self-esteem is where it should be. I said that on Oprah. You marry at the level of your self-esteem.
BEHAR: You say it on Oprah, you can say it. I`m sorry.
D. OSMOND: Can I ask you a question?
BEHAR: Yes.
D. OSMOND: You don`t agree with this. You just said that a second ago. Tell me why.
M. OSMOND: She was asking --
D. OSMOND: She said you don`t agree. Why?
BEHAR: Who`s interviewing who?
D. OSMOND: No, I`m turning the table.
M. OSMOND: I agree with her if it were my second husband.
D. OSMOND: No. What problem do you have with it? Because it`s true love. I mean, the way I`ve said it -- the way I said it earlier, it is a Cinderella story with bumps in the road with a beautiful happy ending. What`s your problem, Joy?
BEHAR: Right. No, I don`t have a problem with it, I`m just --
M. OSMOND: Who is he?
BEHAR: I think it`s lovely, I`m happy for her, I`m just inquiring.
M. OSMOND: Because I think a lot of people would wonder, you know, about it. But we -- but I would say about two years ago we said, OK, let`s see what`s happened. We didn`t want to hurt our son. We didn`t want to hurt other kids. I didn`t want anybody to know.
And I fell in love. I fell madly in love.
BEHAR: Again, with the same guy?
M. OSMOND: Oh, my gosh, yes.
D. OSMOND: See, I`ve always had a great relationship with Steve.
BEHAR: Have you? You always liked him?
D. OSMOND: He`s always been a great guy.
BEHAR: So, you approve of the whole thing?
D. OSMOND: I not only approved, I condone this whole thing. Oh, yes.
BEHAR: Do you care?
M. OSMOND: Yes.
D. OSMOND: He`s been there for many, many years to help out the children, even in another marriage. OK? He`s been there for those kids.
BEHAR: So, he`s a good guy.
D. OSMOND: He`s a really good guy.
BEHAR: I`m so glad. Really.
M. OSMOND: You know, I didn`t even know until a year ago -- I guess my kids like put paint cans up and it spilled all over my basement. I was out of town they were afraid of what their father would do. They called Steve and he came over and like, you know, cleaned up the paint and did the walls and I didn`t even know this.
BEHAR: What`s the other one? What`s his name?
D. OSMOND: We`re not going to go there.
M. OSMOND: No, it was just so funny, I didn`t even know that. But he`s always very supportive.
D. OSMOND: He`s number two.
BEHAR: The number two husband. What was his name?
D. OSMOND: Number two husband.
BEHAR: OK. All right. Now, so that`s good. I`m happy for you both. And you have a hit show in Vegas.
D. OSMOND: Unbelievable, Joy, what`s going on.
BEHAR: And you`re just back to being Donny and Marie.
D. OSMOND: I like this. Can you do this again?
M. OSMOND: You didn`t even want to see these.
BEHAR: Yes, those are beautiful. Yes. Very nice. Rings -- see, rings make my finger itchy.
D. OSMOND: So, you don`t wear a ring?
BEHAR: Well, I`m not married.
D. OSMOND: Who`s Steve?
BEHAR: Steve is my BF.
D. OSMOND: Oh. Are you going to get married?
M. OSMOND: She just said rings make her itchy.
BEHAR: We`ll be together this July for 29 years without being married.
D. OSMOND: What`s his problem? Why doesn`t he pop the question?
BEHAR: Oh, he pops it.
(LAUGHTER)
M. OSMOND: And what do you do back?
BEHAR: What do I do back?
D. OSMOND: Yes. You just don`t want to get married to Steve. Is that what it is?
BEHAR: No, I love Steve.
D. OSMOND: Do you like him?
BEHAR: I love Steve.
D. OSMOND: Why don`t you marry him?
BEHAR: Well, that`s why I don`t want to marry him, because I love him.
OK. Sit tight. We have much more to talk about.
M. OSMOND: I think we have issues.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: You`re right about that, Marie.
D. OSMOND: We`ll be right back here on the Donny and Marie show interviewing Joy Behar.
A.J. HAMMER, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Tonight on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Arnold`s big affair mess. How did he keep his betrayal secret for 10 years? We`ll see you at 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on HLN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
BEHAR: That`s Donny and Marie and their hit Vegas show and they`re back with me now.
You guys are famous Mormons, I must tell you. You, Glenn Beck, who else? Mitt Romney.
M. OSMOND: You.
BEHAR: I`m not from Utah, I`m from Brooklyn. We`re Catholics.
D. OSMOND: You know what? There are more Mormons outside the United States than there are in the United States.
BEHAR: There are? Where are they?
D. OSMOND: They`re all over the world.
M. OSMOND: We`re trying to find them.
BEHAR: What will you do --
M. OSMOND: Have you seen those missionaries out there?
BEHAR: What will you do with them when you find them?
D. OSMOND: There are like 13 million-plus members of the Mormon Church.
BEHAR: You know, the "Book of Mormon" is playing.
D. OSMOND: I haven`t seen it yet.
M. OSMOND: I`ve heard.
BEHAR: What did you hear?
M. OSMOND: Well, I heard there were some very funny things. I heard there were very irreverent things.
BEHAR: Very irreverent?
M. OSMOND: Yes.
D. OSMOND: You`ve seen it? And?
BEHAR: Yes. It`s the greatest show I`ve ever seen.
D. OSMOND: You`re kidding me.
BEHAR: I love it. It`s up there with "The Producers" and "Gypsy" in my book. Fabulous. Hilarious.
M. OSMOND: I heard there were a lot of non-truths in it, that where they always put, you know, I haven`t seen it.
BEHAR: I want to ask you a few questions about it, because I don`t know anything about Mormonism so that`s where I learned about it.
M. OSMOND: Well, I think that`s the wrong place to go.
(LAUGHTER)
D. OSMOND: That is not a good representation of our faith.
BEHAR: I`ve interviewed the sister wives, you know, and I watched that show "Big Love."
D. OSMOND: Again, that is not a good representation. Polygamy is not a part of our faith.
BEHAR: Why not? It was a good idea, wasn`t it?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: What`s wrong with polygamy? I like polyandry myself, you know, when the wife gets 10 husbands.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Like the word husband is andry.
D. OSMOND: See what you learn on Joy`s show?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes, sister wives, he married all of them.
M. OSMOND: That`s not our faith. That`s not our faith.
BEHAR: Wait a second, they`re a real family. They`re not jealous of each other, those women. I would say, like, when he goes to bed with the other one, aren`t you upset? No.
M. OSMOND: I saw your show.
BEHAR: Probably they`re like, good, let her do it.
(LAUGHTER)
M. OSMOND: And thus, she`s not wanting to get married.
D. OSMOND: Exactly. And, thus, Joy is not a Mormon.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: You know who was offended by it? Kathie Lee Gifford was offended by it. She`s not even a Mormon. What`s up with her?
D. OSMOND: I understand there`s some sacrilegious things in there. I mean, any time you use the name Jesus Christ in a sacrilegious type of context, I have a little bit of a problem --
BEHAR: There`s a song called "F you, God."
D. OSMOND: See? I`ve got a problem with that one, you know?
(CROSSTALK)
M. OSMOND: Look at the 10 Commandments. The commandments say don`t take the Lord`s name in vain. I think that would be taking the Lord`s name in vain.
BEHAR: Yes.
M. OSMOND: And so, those are the types of things that we try to have reverence and respect for God. And so, you know, I mean, we can always -- you can always laugh when things get uncomfortable or blue or whatever. But I have to tell you, though, my belief is that I am so grateful to God for my blessings.
I`m so -- I`m a woman in my business for 48 years. That`s not -- that`s an exception.
BEHAR: How old are you?
M. OSMOND: I`m 170. No. But, you know, I thank God every day. I look at my life. I`ve been through ups and downs and everything --
(CROSSTALK)
D. OSMOND: Well, she doesn`t appreciate everything I do for her.
M. OSMOND: But those are the things. You can laugh at things, be irreverent to things. You can find -- you know, do we have to say -- OK, well, it is what it is, but that is not a representation of who we are.
BEHAR: But, you know, a lot of Mormons are coming to see it.
D. OSMOND: That doesn`t mean everybody can -- but it`s blasphemous things going on.
M. OSMOND: You say you`re a Catholic and also Jewish. It`s like --
BEHAR: I`m not Jewish, I`m Catholic -- I`m Italian Catholic.
M. OSMOND: I thought you said you were Jewish.
(CROSSTALK)
D. OSMOND: You get down to Adam, we`re all the same thing.
M. OSMOND: But there are many levels of belief in all faith. I mean, I study all religions. I mean, I read Tonuch (ph). I`ve read everything.
BEHAR: Tonuch, what`s that?
D. OSMOND: What is that?
M. OSMOND: The Kabbala.
D. OSMOND: She just wrote the Tonuch, you should read it. It`s at Amazon right now.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It`s a knock-knock joke. Who`s there?
D. OSMOND: I love this show. This is the greatest show.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Cheers. All right. So, explain the magic underwear to me because that I don`t know about.
D. OSMOND: You know what, I`d rather not. I`ll tell you why.
BEHAR: Why?
D. OSMOND: Yes, we`re wearing.
BEHAR: Are you wearing them?
D. OSMOND: Yes, I am. And I`d rather not get into it because it`s not secret, it`s just so sacred.
BEHAR: It makes people laugh when you say magic underwear.
(CROSSTALK)
D. OSMOND: I`ll tell you something.
M. OSMOND: Because, Joy, they don`t understand.
D. OSMOND: If you could go through the temple, OK? The ceremony there, it goes back to the same ceremony in Solomon`s day, not all those sacred temples back then, not everybody was allowed in there. But the promises we make to God, you know, this magical underwear or whatever you want to call it, all it is, is an outward expression of an inward commitment.
BEHAR: But why underwear? Why not the magic shirt, or the magic socks? Why not a ring? Why?
(CROSSTALK)
D. OSMOND: Way back in the days of Jerusalem days, the Old Testament days.
BEHAR: Oh, really back then.
D. OSMOND: They used to wear those things on the forehead to remind them or something on their hand or arm, it`s the same thing.
M. OSMOND: You go back --
D. OSMOND: It`s a reminder of the promises you make to -- those commitments and commandments that you say, God, I promise to keep them.
M. OSMOND: I just think that, you know, are we different? Are we weird? No. We have more fun than anybody on the planet. So --
D. OSMOND: You see how many kids we have?
M. OSMOND: If you want to know what we believe in --
BEHAR: I know you have a lot of kids.
D. OSMOND: Seventeen last counseled.
BEHAR: Osama bin Laden had 53 siblings. How many have you got?
(LAUGHTER)
D. OSMOND: The only thing we`ve got in common with him is the letter "O." OK?
BEHAR: That`s right. The big "O."
D. OSMOND: That`s it.
BEHAR: Do you think Mitt Romney could win being a Mormon?
M. OSMOND: Could Kennedy do it being a Catholic?
BEHAR: He did it.
(CROSSTALK)
D. OSMOND: Very good comment. Very good comment.
M. OSMOND: It was the same kind of thing that went on for him, well, he`s Catholic. He`s Catholic.
D. OSMOND: But you know what I think --
M. OSMOND: Why don`t they look at people as who they are.
BEHAR: Because that`s the reality.
D. OSMOND: Especially "Book of Mormon" being a hit on Broadway, I think more people are understanding more about Mormons that we`re not weird.
M. OSMOND: Well, don`t say that because I heard it doesn`t have anything to do with Mormon belief.
D. OSMOND: The term Mormon now is just not weird anymore. It`s just like -- we`re just like the Catholics, we`re just like the Jewish people.
M. OSMOND: Just be careful where you get your information from, because there`s so much out there that`s not true.
D. OSMOND: It`s like going on Googling something and saying that`s the gospel truth. No. There`s so much stuff out there.
BEHAR: Donny, believe it or not, as much fun as we`re having, we`re going to have even more fun when we come back. We`ll be right back.
M. OSMOND: Are we coming back?
BEHAR: Yes, we are.
D. OSMOND: I`m out of here.
BEHAR: We`re coming back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Marie and Donny Osmond.
D. OSMOND: Hey, hey, hey, it`s Donny and Marie.
M. OSMOND: Change the graphic.
BEHAR: Now, you know, you two are somewhat competitive.
D. OSMOND: No.
M. OSMOND: No, really?
BEHAR: Friendly sibling rivalry. I realize that. But you won on "Dancing with the Stars" and you fainted.
(LAUGHTER)
M. OSMOND: Thank you so much. I hit my head so hard. We won, right?
D. OSMOND: Whatever.
M. OSMOND: I did it first. I did it first. And we all know that the girls dance much harder than the boys do, so I made it in the finals thank you very much.
BEHAR: What do you mean dance harder?
D. OSMOND: That`s probably true.
M. OSMOND: The guys stand there and hold their hands while they spin 15,000 times. We go through their legs, and over the top and kick our legs up and they stand there and go, isn`t she pretty? Isn`t she lovely in her spandex and 16 inch high heels?
D. OSMOND: OK. Let`s hand it to her, she`s right. It really is about the women.
M. OSMOND: Wow, thank you.
D. OSMOND: It really is about the women. No, it really, because when you watch "Dancing with the Stars," if you watch the woman, OK, because of their dress or lack thereof, but it`s really down to how the women dance. I was fortunate to win.
BEHAR: Who was your partner?
D. OSMOND: Kim Johnson. She`s right at the top of the board.
(CROSSTALK)
M. OSMOND: Her legs, he spins.
D. OSMOND: Yes, but he`s lifting her.
M. OSMOND: Look at her. I mean, he stands there and her legs are like waah!
(CROSSTALK)
D. OSMOND: Give it up, Marie. Can you tell she`s really envious? Mirror ball envy. That`s what it`s called. Mirror ball envy.
BEHAR: I don`t want to mention names but some of the contestants are heavy to lift.
D. OSMOND: Kirstie (ph)?
BEHAR: I didn`t say that.
D. OSMOND: I bring her name up because she`s -- I`m making a prediction here, she`s going to make it into the finals.
BEHAR: I like that about you that you would say that.
(CROSSTALK)
D. OSMOND: It is what it is. I mean, it`s a competition. I don`t know if Kirstie can win but I love her for the fact that she`s hanging in there and she can move. She can dance.
BEHAR: She`s a dancer. I agree with that.
OK. Now, what about the dolls? Are you still collecting your dolls?
D. OSMOND: Yes, I -- oh.
M. OSMOND: I design them.
BEHAR: I mean, are you still selling them?
M. OSMOND: This is my 20-year anniversary. Isn`t that crazy?
BEHAR: I love your dolls. I have one.
M. OSMOND: Do you?
BEHAR: Yes, you gave me one.
M. OSMOND: Oh, that`s right. On the show, I remember. Yes.
But this is our 20-year anniversary, and not only -- I mean, we`re known as having the most beautiful porcelain dolls in the world. Isn`t that crazy?
BEHAR: You have your dolls. You`ve got your thing at the Flamingo in Las Vegas. You got your new CD. Who`s better than you?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You`re married 33 years.
D. OSMOND: Thirty-three years. I had just a son graduate on Friday. He`s Dr. Osmond now.
BEHAR: He`s an M.D.?
D. OSMOND: Physical therapist. He`s a Dr. Osmond now.
BEHAR: OK. Yes. So, and the album "Donny & Marie" it`s called.
M. OSMOND: Yes.
BEHAR: And you can pick it up everywhere.
D. OSMOND: It`s everywhere.
M. OSMOND: Go to Wal-Mart. It`s right here.
D. OSMOND: Joy, I got to tell you. It`s so exciting after all these years and we`re back together doing this. We didn`t know what would happen when we went back to Las Vegas. We`re just grateful.
BEHAR: You seem like you`re in a very good place both of you. We thank you for doing the show.
D. OSMOND: Thanks, Joy.
M. OSMOND: Thank you.
BEHAR: And don`t forget to catch them at the Flamingo in Las Vegas?
M. OSMOND: They put the album cover right on the building. You drive down the Strip and it`s the album cover.
D. OSMOND: We`re out of time. Go to commercial!
END
