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Joy Behar Page
Schwarzenegger`s Secret Son; Newt`s Bad Week; Interview With Debbie Reynolds
Aired May 18, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: This week a conservative Web site listed me as the ninth most obnoxious liberal in Hollywood. First of all, I`m not in Hollywood. I`m in New York, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and I have only one thing to say in response. Only ninth -- what do I have to do to get to be number one on this list? Spend the night with Barney Frank? Ok. I`ll stay number nine. Never mind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, new details on Arnold Schwarzenegger`s love child. As the Internet buzzes with the alleged identity of the mother, we learned the former governor carried on with his former housekeeper in his family`s home. Why do powerful men commit such outrageous acts? And what`s the impact on the kids?
Then Oprah films her final show with none other than jilted wife, Maria Shriver. So where will celebrities go without an outlet like Oprah to clear the air?
Plus she lived through a crumbling marriage in the heat of the Hollywood spotlight. A film and television icon, who is not afraid to speak her mind; Debbie Reynolds is here.
That and more, starting right now.
BEHAR: In his movies, Arnold Schwarzenegger played an action hero but his real life actions defy logic. Not only did he have an affair with his housekeeper but he had a love child with her. And now it`s being reported she was pregnant at the same time as his wife Maria Shriver. I wonder what`s going to happen in Act Three.
Joining me now to talk about this drama and much more are: Gloria Allred, victims` rights attorney who represented a woman who accused Schwarzenegger of groping her; M. Gary Neuman, mental health counselor and author of "The Truth about Men" -- "The Truth about Cheating," -- well, it just comes out of me -- men, cheating, same thing; and Jacob Bernstein, senior reporter for "The Daily Beast".
Gloria, what do you make of that? The two were pregnant at the same time. Just give me your reaction.
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Obviously, Joy, this is very hurtful to Maria. And I`m sure that all of them, Maria, her children, the mother of this newly-acknowledged child and her child are all victims of Arnold Schwarzenegger.
BEHAR: Jacob, had Maria met this child before? Does she know the child?
JACOB BERNSTEIN, "THE DAILY BEAST": I believe that she did. We haven`t done as much reporting on that yet, but it certainly looks like the child visited the home from time to time, yes.
BEHAR: So there was some connection to the child. Now, Gary, this was all supposedly happening in the family home. Why didn`t he get a hotel room like any other self-respecting cheater? Why does he have to do it in the home for?
M. GARY NEUMAN, MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELOR: It definitely says something different. It really talks about his character as a person who wants to dominate. I think some men have such an ego I want to overwhelm and manipulate that they dominate people.
And here you take somebody who`s a housekeeper, probably very beholden, really needs the job, really needs the money. It is one of those, "I`m going to do what I want to do when I want to do it." It`s a misogynist look at these men.
BEHAR: You know -- well Gloria, you have represented a lot of women - - a few women who claim that Arnold groped them back in the day. You know, it`s interesting, what Arnold says is that he was just being playful.
Gloria, what do you -- how do you respond to that? He thinks it`s playful, the other women say you`re touching my boobs, you`re touching me here, et cetera, and it`s not playful.
ALLRED: Well, I can say as to this particular newly-acknowledged mother of his child, obviously there was more than playful going on. And in fact, it resulted in the birth of a child.
Now what`s going to be interesting is: what are the rights of this mother and this child that he has now acknowledged? And I hope that this mother will now assert whatever rights she may have under the law.
It`s complicated, though, joy, by the fact that it`s being reported that she was married at the time that the child was born.
BEHAR: Right.
ALLRED: If she was married at that time, if that`s correct, in California, unless she asserted her rights against Arnold within two years and said that he was the father and tried to get -- establish paternity in the courts, it will be too late for her to do so now. But they may have a written agreement that they`ve kept confidential about his paying child support. That, she could assert, if he fails to pay child support due to the child. We don`t know yet what her rights will be.
BERNSTEIN: He has been paying. Yes.
BEHAR: He has been paying -- but he has been paying money to the mother all this time, right?
BERNSTEIN: Yes. I mean this was one of the things that we found totally fascinating. Not only has he been paying money the whole time, but he and Maria kept separate bank accounts. And so he was able to keep this secret, I think, because she didn`t see his money and he didn`t really see hers.
And the reason she -- it was actually Maria that implemented this. Because she, A, wanted an escape hatch, and, B, she wanted a sense of independence. She was a working woman. She loved being on TV, she loved her career.
BEHAR: Right.
BERNSTEIN: This was a way to do it. But unfortunately, when you keep secret bank accounts, or different bank accounts, you can keep secrets.
BEHAR: That`s true because there`s always a paper trail on the credit card and all this other stuff. What about --
ALLRED: That`s not exactly true, that you can always keep the secret, though, Joy, because if in fact Maria goes ahead with the divorce or in fact, a legal separation, then she is going to be entitled to know all about Arnold`s finances and all -- and he`ll be entitled to know about her finances.
And again, we don`t know if there`s a pre-nup, but still, they`ll be entitled to know about each other`s finances. So she may find out a lot more than she knew before.
BEHAR: But if they do get a divorce, Gloria, how much money does Maria stand to get out of this?
ALLRED: Well, again, it depends. If there`s -- if there`s a prenuptial agreement that is upheld by the courts, an enforceable pre-nup, then it`s going to be governed by what they agreed to in that prenuptial agreement. If there`s no pre-nup, then in California she`s entitled to half of whatever is determined to be community property. And community property is marital property that is not separate.
BEHAR: Only in California? Because I`m sure she has, you know, she must have a Kennedy sort of estate in Massachusetts and Manhattan apartment. What about all the assets that they have outside of California?
ALLRED: Well, those will be governed by California law because the divorce will take place, if there is one, in California. And even assets outside of California, whether they`re real property, personal property or other property, are going to be subject to the dissolution. And some of them may be declared to be separate, some may be community property. But all assets will have to be reviewed.
BEHAR: I see. You know this is interesting. CNN is not showing the photo of the mistress --
BERNSTEIN: Right.
BEHAR: -- because CNN doesn`t do that. But it`s everywhere else.
BERNSTEIN: I know, "The New York Times" has actually published it, which even I was shocked by it.
BEHAR: You`re shocked by "The New York Times"? Of course they would.
BERNSTEIN: Well, you know, I was surprised. She was an employee. I can`t -- and it was a debate within our own --
BEHAR: It`s not really fair.
BERNSTEIN: It`s something. You know? I -- I wasn`t crazy about any of us doing it.
BEHAR: Well, we`re not doing it here. So we`re all clean and pure here.
But -- Gary, let me say something to you because people are responding to the photo. Have you seen it Gary?
NEUMAN: I have.
BEHAR: Ok. She looks like a regular housewife, she`s not a glamour- puss, you know, and people are saying -- I think this is so crazy.
Gloria you can weigh in on this. Because she`s not a stunner like Maria is more of a stunner, how could he do this to Maria with her? Does it really matter? I mean, what is the pathology behind all of this?
NEUMAN: Right. It does not matter. Again, in my study, 88 percent of men who cheated physically said that the mistress was not better looking or in better shape than their own wives.
This is a psychological problem. And again, you know, I think when people look at a guy like Arnold and surely Maria thought this, I tell women, you think when you marry you`re going to marry a slice of bread? No. You`re marrying the whole loaf. If a man is controlling, unkind, is making -- poking fun at you, then guess what? He`s going to take that controlling, manipulative behavior everywhere he goes. That`s really the issue here.
Maria`s walking away. You have to wonder how unfortunate she`s walking away with this pain and how she fell in love with a man who perhaps has something to do with the whole Kennedy principle of male domination and control. And although she says she doesn`t want to find somebody in politics and is very different than her family of origin, yet again, she falls in love with somebody who makes her feel, perhaps, that same kind of control and domination. It`s very sad for her.
ALLRED: I don`t think it`s just about domination, I think for -- you know, for Arnold I have to question whether he thinks of women as anything other than sex objects, to be used for his own pleasure, whether he really cares about them as human beings. To me I have substantial questions about, because he has hurt them. How could he prey on a woman in his employ -- a housekeeper?
NEUMAN: Sure.
ALLRED: And even if she entered into that relationship -- I`m not blaming her -- he has to take responsibility. And what kind of message was he sending to Maria to do it in her home -- in his home? To have relationship with an employee that she trusted?
This is, you know, this is not a kind of conduct that any husband should engage in. It was selfish of him.
NEUMAN: Absolutely not. And I think you`re right.
ALLRED: It was deceptive and painful.
(CROSSTALK)
NEUMAN: Yes. I think it is shameful and I think he doesn`t like women. I think he -- that`s domination. It means that he sees women as less than him. That he can do and is there for his own self-serving pleasure and all these stories you hear about are similar.
BEHAR: Jacob you were reporting on other -- Gary alluded to some of that -- that he mistreated her in some way.
BERNSTEIN: Yes. There`s no question he has a mean streak. He can be wildly charming, but he also --
BEHAR: He`s funny.
BERNSTEIN: He`s totally funny. Everybody who has dinner with him says he`s funny.
BEHAR: He`s a riot. You`re a regular riot, Arnie.
BERNSTEIN: But he also has a habit of seeing derisive things about her weight.
BEHAR: Too fat or too thin?
BERNSTEIN: I think that when she was up, she was -- you know --
BEHAR: He comments on her weight?
BERNSTEIN: Yes. Yes. But he`s also -- now he`s also a person who`s objectified himself. He`s like the -- you know, this is like the (INAUDIBLE) steroid. You know what I mean?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Do you think steroid -- let me ask you do you think the steroid use is causing all of this hound dogging behavior?
BERNSTEIN: Well, I think it certainly raises questions, doesn`t it. I mean, I don`t think that there`s any evidence he`s been on steroids in a very long time, but -- but he definitely spent a significant portion of his life on them.
And -- and if you`re running, you know, 20 to 30 times as much testosterone in your system as the ordinary guy --
BEHAR: Yes.
BERNSTEIN: -- that would presumably have a -- have a -- have an effect.
(CROSSTALK)
NEUMAN: Well, first of all I don`t think so.
BEHAR: He has more testosterone --
ALLRED: You know what, let`s not -- let`s not make excuses for him.
BEHAR: I don`t think -- yes.
NEUMAN: I don`t think you make excuses.
BERNSTEIN: But I`m not making an excuse for him.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: One at a time.
BERNSTEIN: What I`m trying to explain is --
BEHAR: Gloria go ahead -- wait, ladies first. Go ahead, Gloria.
ALLRED: Yes, I was going to say, let`s not make excuses for his conduct. And I see him as a male chauvinist and I`ve also said, you know, in a rigid male stereotype. And I`ve often said male chauvinists can be very dangerous to a woman`s emotional, physical, financial health because those persons tend to abuse women.
BERNSTEIN: Yes.
BEHAR: Ok Gary last words.
GARY: No excuses. High testosterone can give you a lot of libido but that doesn`t mean you have to do it in the house with your wife with the housekeeper.
BEHAR: Right.
GARY: I mean that`s -- that`s no excuse.
BEHAR: I know and I`ve tried it. All it gives me is a mustache.
Thanks, everyone. We`ll be right back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still ahead, before there was Maria and Arnold, there was Debbie Reynolds and Eddie Fisher and Liz Taylor. Debbie Reynolds talks about surviving infidelity in the public eye.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Oprah Winfrey taped one of her final shows in Chicago yesterday and Maria Shriver made a special appearance. The two ladies stood on stage and pointedly talked about the importance of truth. I wonder who they`re referring to.
Maybe we`ll find out from Rebecca Dana, senior correspondent for "Newsweek" and the "Daily Beast"; Michelle Collins, comedian and managing editor of BestWeekEver.tv; and Jill Zarin, co-star of "The Real Housewives of New York".
Welcome ladies to the show.
REBECCA DANA, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, "NEWSWEEK" & "THE DAILY BEAST": Hi Joy.
MICHELLE COLLINS, COMEDIAN, MANAGING EDITOR, BESTWEEKEVER.TV: Hi.
BEHAR: I love all the estrogen we`re experiencing right now.
So let me start -- Michelle, do you think she should have done Oprah? I mean, what happened to the privacy thing she was talking about?
COLLINS: The celebrity privacy?
BEHAR: Yes.
COLLINS: That`s celebrity code for I`m doing Oprah. Oprah has a lockdown on people. Like when you are doing Oprah, and I know this from doing rep carpet things, celebrities cannot stop for interviews because they have to save it for Oprah, you know. And she only has a week left.
BEHAR: Yes.
COLLINS: That`s why I blame her for doing Oprah? I`m jealous that my famous husband didn`t have an affair before she got cancelled. So I could do Oprah. That`s all I want.
BEHAR: I see.
COLLINS: You know.
BEHAR: Ok.
COLLINS: Yes.
BEHAR: Well, you`re right. You`re honest about your selfishness. I like it.
JILL ZARIN, CAST MEMBER "REAL HOUSEWIVES OF NEW YORK": I think they should be coming to you next. Now they`re all going -- they have to have an outlet. Where are they going to go?
BEHAR: You know, that`s true, where are these people going to go, these women who are scorned, et cetera? My doors are open.
ZARIN: That`s what I`m saying.
BEHAR: Ok.
You know, but not only was Maria there, she also -- she also had Tom Hanks, Tom Cruise and Beyonce. I mean, that`s pretty good. Would they go for anybody but Oprah, this particular group of A-Listers? I don`t think so.
COLLINS: No, it was like a Scientology recruitment meeting or something, all these names. I`m like Beyonce, Tom Cruise, Will Smith.
BEHAR: Well, Cruise -- is Beyonce a scientologist?
DANA: No, no, no.
BEHAR: Kirstie Alley who`s on "Dancing with the Stars" she`s a scientologist.
COLLINS: I love Kirstie Alley.
BEHAR: You do, why?
COLLINS: Oh she`s so open with herself, she`s just funny, she`s crazy. I feel like there are no masks with her other than the "Dancing with the Stars" --
ZARIN: I`ll tell you, it gives hope for women of 60 and up because now she got another reality show, I think.
COLLINS: Oh yes.
ZARIN: Yes, that`s what I heard on Lifetime.
BEHAR: Well, good for her and she`s funny.
COLLINS: Yes.
BEHAR: Now, what about Arnold and Mel Gibson. Which one do you think is worse?
ZARIN: Oh, hands -- hands down, Mel is the worst. I mean, he`s -- he`s an abuser, and he`s an anti-Semite, I mean, you can`t compare a cheater to that. You just can`t.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes go ahead.
DANA: He`s a Holocaust denier. You know?
(CROSSTALK)
DANA: He is. He is absolutely.
BEHAR: The fact that he didn`t deny his father makes sense.
DANA: Yes, I mean, he has endorsed everything that his father has said.
BEHAR: Yes.
COLLINS: The tag line on "Lethal Weapon" was "Lethal Weapon 2: the Holocaust never happened".
BEHAR: Yes, I want to show you a picture of him, the one of the recent pictures of him. Look at this. You know what? I think he ate the beaver. Have you seen -- he got fat. Can we say Man-zier is in order?
COLLINS: Oh definitely.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But what about these guys, I mean, there`s a lot of philandering going on.
COLLINS: Oh I know.
BEHAR: A lot of bad behavior.
ZARIN: It`s always been going on. We`re catching it now, because a guy who cheats who uses his car, you`re going to catch him when he said he was at the office with his easy pass that he actually wasn`t at the office that he went over three bridges. I mean, the -- today with technology you`re just catching them. I don`t think they`re doing it more.
COLLINS: I think Maria`s known it for ten years. I mean, you think she just found out and all of a sudden coincidentally he`s out of office? No.
ZARIN: She got threatened that the maid was going to expose it and sell her story.
COLLINS: Let me tell you right now. If it would have been mine I would have kept the baby, if it was Arnold`s I would have kept the baby. I`m sorry. I`ve been saying it for days, I mean, please.
BEHAR: If you were Maria or the woman who had the baby?
COLLINS: The woman who had the baby.
BEHAR: But she did keep the baby, she just passed it off as her ex- husband`s baby.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: That was a mistake. Now when the kid --
BEHAR: Well, I heard the baby looks just like him. It`s not a baby now, I hear he`s 14.
DANA: I really feel for her. I -- I think --
BEHAR: Oh I feel for her.
DANA: -- I think it`s terribly, terribly sad, whether it`s ten years ago or today.
BEHAR: But you know what, there`s something about the fact that he was accused of groping all these women.
ZARIN: Yes.
DANA: Right.
BEHAR: Didn`t she believe it? I mean --
ZARIN: Where`s there`s smoke there`s fire.
COLLINS: This is not a surprise.
BEHAR: You know and then she stood by him, you know, stand by your man and let him become governor.
ZARIN: But not anymore, no more stand by your man. She finally gave up.
DANA: Well, I think that`s another reason that it seems like we`re discovering so much more of this. Like there`s an epidemic of male infidelity in Hollywood and Washington --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
DANA: -- because I think women are putting up with it much less than they ever did.
BEHAR: You think so?
DANA: Yes.
BEHAR: But I mean it`s not a feminist thing to stand by your man when he`s been accused of groping a bunch of women. I`m sorry, I like Maria. She`s very nice but I think she needs to rethink all of that.
ZARIN: She needs therapy big time.
BEHAR: Oh don`t you think she`s in therapy?
ZARIN: Maybe her therapist is the one who made her finally, you know, leave and also for her children`s sake.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: The Kennedys do not go to therapy.
COLLINS: No.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You know one of -- one of his kids, Patrick Schwarzenegger has changed his name to Patrick Shriver.
COLLINS: Oh, really?
DANA: Which is one of the things that makes me think that this is a surprise to them. I mean, at least the children.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: So the children --
COLLINS: He was like funny about it on Twitter. He was like, "Don`t worry, we have hummers, we`ll be fine." This was something he said. Also he`s gorgeous. Can I throw that out there?
BEHAR: Patrick? How old --
ZARIN: Who does he look like?
COLLINS: He`s 17.
BEHAR: She`s 18.
ZARIN: It`s close.
COLLINS: Well, she -- yes. Once he`s legal.
BEHAR: When we come back I want to talk about another bargain, Newt Gingrich. Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONNY OSMOND, SINGER: So we just finished Joy`s show. That was interesting.
MARIE OSMOND, SINGER: And it was a joy.
D. OSMOND: It was a joy. It was interesting.
M. OSMOND: Never heard that before.
D. OSMOND: She has some very easy questions.
M. OSMOND: She asked, you know, simple questions. Nothing too heavy, nothing deep.
D. OSMOND: Love you, Joy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel.
Now, Newt Gingrich has had a very bad week since announcing his presidential run. Watch this Fox News video of a GOP supporter accosting him in Iowa.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you just did to Paul Ryan is unforgivable.
NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I didn`t do anything to Paul Ryan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, you did. You undercut him in the house.
GINGRICH: No, I said --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re an embarrassment to our party.
GINGRICH: I`m sorry you feel that way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don`t you get out before you make a bigger fool of yourself?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Turning. Ok. Don`t you love white on white crime?
DANA: I like that they hold hands the whole time. The entire exchange happened while they`re like mid-embrace. I think it`s great.
BEHAR: But the Republicans are turning on each other a little bit.
COLLINS: I love it.
BEHAR: Well, what do you make of that Rebecca?
DANA: I just think the whole premise that like, people are falling out of love with Newt Gingrich. People are -- nobody ever did love Newt. This is not -- nobody likes Newt Gingrich. No one`s liked Newt Gingrich for more than a decade.
BEHAR: You know what they say; a lot of times you`ll hear them say he`s quite the philanderer, he`s quite annoying but he has a brilliant mind. Does he have a brilliant mind?
DANA: Who the hell knows?
COLLINS: He has a giant head.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: That`s not all hair.
ZARIN: He`s not the biggest hypocrite -- there`s somebody else. I think he`s a big hypocrite because during the Clinton impeachment, this just shows what a hypocrite he was, he was having an affair while that was going on and he was obviously with Bill Clinton saying what he was doing. And I just don`t think he`s someone who should be our president at all. And I think the Republicans are embarrassed and they can`t find anybody better.
BEHAR: But, you know, not to back him up, but Bill Clinton was having an affair while he was president, so although he says it was not sex.
ZARIN: I`m not saying he was right. I`m saying that he`s a hypocrite for going after Clinton when he`s actually, you know, doing it himself. That`s my take.
BEHAR: But it seems like hypocrisy is prerequisite to be in politics.
ZARIN: I know and it`s very sad. I don`t know what we`re going to do, but I don`t think the Republicans have anybody better right now to put out. Do they?
BEHAR: Ok. Now, look at this thing. Then he was attacked with glitter by an activist at a book signing. The video was posted on a blog that supports gay rights. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Feel the rainbow Newt. Stop the hate. Stop the anti-gay politics. It`s dividing our country and it`s not fixing our economy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know, only a gay guy would do glitter. It`s fabulous. No guns, no hitting, just glitter. I love it.
DANA: I don`t see how you can have a bad week if you`re covered in glitter.
COLLINS: That`s the best attack. I wish someone would fling glitter on me. You know that with that hair he`s not going to get it out for the next 50 years. It`s going to be like Armageddon times two. I love glitter and I love --
BEHAR: Now, what about the fact that he owes Tiffany`s, he owes Tiffany`s up to $500,000. He still owes them a quarter of a million dollars. What did he buy at Tiffany`s?
ZARIN: I want to know how he got that credit because I didn`t know you can go to Tiffany`s and get that kind of credit.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But isn`t he supposed to be the fiscal conservative, as they say, somebody who -- don`t incur debt and all that other stuff?
COLLINS: Have you seen his new wife? She looks like Cindy McCain 2.0 only 1.5. You know what I mean.
(CROSSTALK)
COLLINS: Let me tell you right now, seriously, if he would spend half a million dollars on me I would just like throw a fur over his face, pretend it`s Phil Donahue, whatever, Bea Arthur, whatever he looks like, make it work for half a million dollars at Tiffany`s.
BEHAR: What did he spend it on Rebecca? Do you know?
DANA: You know maybe Newt goes home at night and puts on a nice pair of heels and like some gold studs. Maybe diamond studs. Maybe it`s not for the wives. Who knows? Who knows?
BEHAR: The wife looks like she`s traumatized. Can we say lobotomy?
Ok. Thank you, guys.
You can see Jill Zarin on "Real Housewives of New York" Thursday nights on Bravo.
We`ll be back in a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, show business legend Debbie Reynolds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: She was just 16 when she was discovered at a beauty contest and was soon singing and dancing in movies with the likes of Gene Kelly. Check her out in the classic film "Singing in the Rain."
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
BEHAR: I`m exhausted just watching that.
Here with me now is stage and screen star, the very talented Debbie Reynolds.
Applause, applause.
BEHAR: OK, Debbie --
(APPLAUSE)
BEHAR: -- you were with two of the greatest dancers in America.
DEBBIE REYNOLDS, ACTRESS: Ever.
BEHAR: Gene Kelly and Donald O`Connor. Were you a dancer at that time, too?
REYNOLDS: No dancer, no. I was just fresh from high school and just a gymnast. I was a gymnast.
BEHAR: Oh, that was close enough.
REYNOLDS: No, you could flip of a bar but you couldn`t make your toes move. It`s very different.
BEHAR: You had a musical talent, though, that they brought out.
REYNOLDS: Well, God was good to me and gave me, yes, musical talent. I`m glad you said that.
BEHAR: Of course you do.
So, you know, as you`ve been watching this story about Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver, I was thinking, were you getting flashbacks? I mean, there`s so many similarities to what happened to you back in the day.
REYNOLDS: Eddie screwed the housekeeper?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: No. You know what, Debbie?
REYNOLDS: I thought it was Elizabeth.
BEHAR: One thing about Elizabeth, she didn`t do windows. I know that about Elizabeth Taylor.
REYNOLDS: I never knew that.
BEHAR: There was other things about it, you know, that it`s public, the public humiliation --
REYNOLDS: It`s sad for the boy -- the boy that was created in the moment.
BEHAR: You mean the love child.
REYNOLDS: The love child. I`m really sorry for the love child. I mean, what`s his name going to be and what now, and what school is he going to go to, and who`s going to support him, and --
BEHAR: Well, Arnold`s going to support him. Arnold.
REYNOLDS: Well, has he been around him?
BEHAR: Yes. Well, he`s been supporting the boy.
REYNOLDS: Doesn`t mean -- has he played ball with the boy? Has he seen the boy?
BEHAR: I don`t think so. That I don`t know. I really don`t know.
But it`s different from yours, I think, but you had a very public breakup.
REYNOLDS: Well, I don`t think any of it looked like Arnold.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Eddie was cute in his own way. Do you want to know the truth? I find Eddie more attractive than Arnold. I love a tall, skinny Jewish boy like Eddie Fisher.
REYNOLDS: Oh, that`s good.
BEHAR: This big pumped up thing is not my cup of tea.
REYNOLDS: Well, no, I didn`t care for a big pumped up thing. But anything bigger than Eddie would have been nice.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Yes, that`s true.
REYNOLDS: I just think that the whole Shriver thing, she`s such a classy woman. Her whole family, and the background -- and she`s such a brilliant woman herself that I think it`s just sad. I`ve been there, done that, and it`s tragic and it will take her years to get over it. After all her children are adult adults, young adults.
BEHAR: Yours were little.
REYNOLDS: My children were little and it was much easier for them, because 2 years old compared to 10 years old and 13 years old or 17, whatever, the Arnold Schwarzenegger -- his name kills me.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes.
REYNOLDS: Just California.
BEHAR: California.
REYNOLDS: California.
BEHAR: But, you know, I know it`s difficult but I think the kids will suffer a little bit.
REYNOLDS: Oh, certainly they`re going to suffer. First of all, I`m sure that Arnold has been a good father, and I`m sure he will continue to be so. This is a very -- this is a tragedy for all of them, just for his one act of stupidity and that`s what I`m going to give him.
BEHAR: It`s not just one, that`s the beauty of this story.
REYNOLDS: Oh. Oh.
BEHAR: It`s not just one. There are many, many stories of groping, et cetera.
REYNOLDS: I know, I`ve heard about them.
BEHAR: I wonder what is your opinion is of that? Because Maria knew the reports about the groping and all the rest of his peccadilloes, and yet she backed him up and supported him in the governor`s race.
REYNOLDS: Well, so did I with Elizabeth. I said, I have to send him over to be with her. She`s -- tragedy, her husband just passed away. He`s our best friend. I want Eddie to go and be with Elizabeth. I think women do that, that are really good friends and nice people. Most of us are nice.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes.
REYNOLDS: We`re not all maid humpers.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Do you regret you did that?
REYNOLDS: I never humped the maid.
BEHAR: No, that you sent Elizabeth -- Eddie to comfort Elizabeth.
REYNOLDS: I think it was a foolish thing to do, after all, to someone as beautiful as Elizabeth. And we were all very --
BEHAR: You were pretty too, Debbie. People always talk about Elizabeth how beautiful she was. There were other actresses just as beautiful as Elizabeth at that time.
REYNOLDS: Well, Eddie didn`t see them or he would have been right over.
BEHAR: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: She was more exotic, maybe. You were more of a home spun type of gal.
REYNOLDS: I was a Girl Scout. I really was a simple little girl and that`s what I was, and he fell madly in love with Elizabeth. Now, I understand, you know, so many years later, and it`s in the past now.
BEHAR: It`s in the past, but your career is not in the past.
REYNOLDS: No, isn`t it great?
BEHAR: You`re still kicking, going and dancing.
REYNOLDS: The only thing that keeps you alive, keeps you happy. Well, I think so. I think performing just to hear the hum of the audience and go out and then you hear the laughter and, you know, I make my announcement, my -- it was called "Alive and Fabulous," that`s my title. People are so shocked that I`m still alive.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: No, they`re not.
REYNOLDS: Debbie? Debbie? Let`s go catch Debbie before she dies. Everyone`s kicking off fast nowadays, you know.
BEHAR: Yes. No, not everybody. Betty white is still kicking.
REYNOLDS: She`s kicking but she`s only one out of many.
BEHAR: That`s true.
REYNOLDS: And then there`s me.
BEHAR: Who else is there?
REYNOLDS: We`re kind of alone, you know. There`s not too many.
BEHAR: Barbara Walters is still doing --
REYNOLDS: Oh, she`s younger. Barbara.
BEHAR: Yes.
And you got into showbiz by accident?
REYNOLDS: Yes. I entered a local beauty contest because we were really poor family and they gave away a free blouse and scarf if you entered, not if you didn`t win, and I wanted a free blouse and scarf, I was so excited and I won. And that started it. There were talent scouts there, they took me to the studio and they changed my name to Debbie and it happened like that.
BEHAR: What was your name again?
REYNOLDS: Mary Frances.
BEHAR: Marie Frances Reynolds?
REYNOLDS: Mary Frances Reynolds.
BEHAR: It sounds like a nun. Sister Mary Frances Reynolds.
REYNOLDS: You say that because you`re Catholic. Italiana.
(SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
BEHAR: I`m not that Italian. But --
REYNOLDS: She can`t speak it, but she`s Italian.
BEHAR: That studio system in those days was the greatest. I mean, they took care of you.
REYNOLDS: They put you under contract, made you, taught you, gave you teachers, you took lessons all day long. You couldn`t dance, you will. You couldn`t sing, you will. You know, whatever you couldn`t do, and whatever you didn`t know, you learned.
And it was a very exciting time. It was school without being school days. It was just, to me, it was a blessing. And I`ve never forgotten it. It`s a golden era. It was the golden --
BEHAR: It was. But nowadays actors are out on a limb, they don`t know what`s happening, right?
REYNOLDS: Right. Well, not good for them. I mean, they`re wonderful, they`re wonderfully talented. All the young kids today are very, very gifted, but they don`t have the protection of the studio system which was the big boss, and they were the big bosses and they told you what to do.
And I did it because it was right. They bought a script for you. They produced the film for you. They did all your clothes, they did everything. You were just a very lucky person.
BEHAR: But they were a little dictatorial. When we come back I do want to talk about --
REYNOLDS: Yes, they were.
BEHAR: -- Louis B. Mayer and what he did to Judy Garland.
REYNOLDS: Well, yes, he
BEHAR: When we come back, don`t tell it yet, we want to tease the next segment. We`ll be right back with more of Debbie Reynolds.
REYNOLDS: Lots of them. I`ll tell you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the legendary screen actress, wonderful idol, Debbie Reynolds.
REYNOLDS: Let me tell but sewing.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Yes, we were talking --
REYNOLDS: My mother was a seamstress, so I always bring it up somehow. Yes. Sentimental. Sweet things.
BEHAR: So, we were talking about the drugs that Louis B. Meyer gave to Judy Garland and Mickey Rooney, too, right?
REYNOLDS: Well, there were a lot of people -- Mickey would maybe deny that, they had a hospital on -- whenever anybody got tired, they gave them a vitamin shot, you know? A vitamin shot would pick them up.
BEHAR: A real vitamin or amphetamines?
REYNOLDS: Well, inside, suddenly everybody went -- who-hoo! It picked them up.
BEHAR: I`m sure it did.
REYNOLDS: They did have a little help there, and it wasn`t good for, you know, Judy and I think Mickey, and some of the other younger people.
BEHAR: Did they ever give you any of those vitamin shots?
REYNOLDS: Well, they wanted to, but I really wouldn`t do it. I hate shots. I don`t like needles anyway. No, I didn`t. I need it during "Singing in the Rain," but I just didn`t. I figured just go ahead and suffer.
BEHAR: Well, they would get Judy up and then they`d give her sleeping pills to put her to sleep. No wonder, the poor girl.
REYNOLDS: She was very hyper. She couldn`t sleep. So she had a real problem. She would take sleeping pills to go to sleep and then she`d need something to pick her up.
BEHAR: Terrible.
REYNOLDS: That killed her.
BEHAR: It did kill her. She was not that old. What was she?
REYNOLDS: Forty-seven.
BEHAR: Forty-seven.
REYNOLDS: Well, I knew her in the end. I saw her off to England the week that she went off, and they held her check when she was working in (INAUDIBLE), Florida, we were working side by side. And they held her check because she went on for me. I caught the flu, she went on for me, they held her check -- wild things.
And she was so depressed and they held her luggage and she went off to England without any luggage. She was so depressed when she got there, she just said -- so she went in the bathroom by herself, and that`s just the saddest thing.
BEHAR: Sad.
REYNOLDS: And what a genius.
BEHAR: Brilliant, one of the greats of the 20th centuries.
REYNOLDS: She`s still lasting. The younger people today still know who Judy Garland is.
BEHAR: Yes, they do.
Did you know Joan Crawford? Was she a bitch?
(LAUGHTER)
REYNOLDS: Yes. Actually, she was really nice. But she was powerful. And if she didn`t like you, I think you`d be in a lot of trouble.
BEHAR: Was she mean to the kids, like her daughter wrote in "Mommy Dearest."
REYNOLDS: The eldest daughter.
BEHAR: Christina.
REYNOLDS: She would take it out on the eldest one. She seemed to get a little smashed, and unfortunately the eldest one was up when she came home and the other ones were in bed. Yes, that`s true. I knew her forever, her whole career, and she was very nice to me and, you know, just once when she hit me with a --
BEHAR: The wire hanger?
REYNOLDS: The wire hanger. It just hurt, just hurts right across the back when it hit.
BEHAR: What about Bette Davis. Her daughter also wrote a nasty book about her.
REYNOLDS: What is that? (INAUDIBLE)
BEHAR: Are you scared Carrie will write one about you some day?
REYNOLDS: Carrie already has.
(LAUGHTER)
REYNOLDS: Did you see her show, "Wishful Drinking?"
BEHAR: It was wonderful.
REYNOLDS: She writes all kinds of things about me. She writes about my mother, it`s best to -- what is it she says, my mother always says something, it`s better to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) on pie than -- I can`t remember.
BEHAR: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: All right. But --
REYNOLDS: It`s very funny in Carrie`s show, so go see that. Don`t catch mine. I don`t do that joke anyway.
BEHAR: Carrie -- Carrie is -- she wrote a lot of stuff about you. She wrote "Postcards from the Edge" about her --
REYNOLDS: That was made up. That "Postcards from the Edge" she wrote about really herself, about a boy who was -- I don`t know which drug it is, but someone blow your head off, and she wrote about herself. And then they decided to make the father in the show a mother. So, Carrie just rewrote it for Mike Nichols.
BEHAR: But that scene where Shirley MacLaine is on the piano singing and I`m here -- I could picture you doing it.
REYNOLDS: (SINGING)
No, that`s Ethel Merman (ph). One of those shows.
Yes, I did that. I do that. I do that. Any party I go to or I give, I always get up and sing and dance or do something. Well, it depends if it`s getting boring, you know? I like to kick it up. We did that in Hollywood. In Hollywood, we had a pianist always hired and everybody got up, was supposed to get up and do a poem or read, if you wanted to read a play or something.
BEHAR: But everyone had talent. That`s why.
REYNOLDS: Everyone had talent. Everybody got up and did something -- something kicky.
BEHAR: You know, last time she was on with me, she told me, Carrie, she said that if she didn`t have you as a role model, there would be no way she would still be working. Isn`t that nice?
REYNOLDS: I think it`s true about, you can`t quit. You just go on, it doesn`t matter what, doesn`t matter how sick you are, because that will maybe even work for you. You`re doing it for them.
The audience, they got there, you can get out there no matter what you feel badly, that`s just too bad. Your calling card is your talent. Your talent is to get out there for the audience and entertain them to the best of your ability no matter how sick you may be, because in the end you do feel better. You work it out. Don`t you? If you --
BEHAR: Even when you don`t want to go on, it feels better after you`re done at any rate.
REYNOLDS: No, you just do feel -- you feel like you`ve accomplished something. You`ve done a good job of it.
BEHAR: Right. Now, besides being in, you know, in your cabaret act and your career is still going, you`re also such a collector of Hollywood costumes and all sorts of memorabilia, which I find -- and you have an auction coming up.
REYNOLDS: Yes, I`ve collected for 50 years. In 1930 (ph), MGM had a big auction. They sold everything off. They wanted to just keep the land and get rid of all the memorabilia, all the costumes, all the cars, all of sorts, all of everything. It`s just horrible because real estate people wanted it and they had it. And Turner bought the -- thank God, the movies and thank God for Turner.
BEHAR: Thank God for Turner, that`s right. Yes.
REYNOLDS: So that`s what happened in the `70s and then `75, FOX had a big auction. They sold everything, and then Columbia and (INAUDIBLE). So, I went to every auction and I also went to every person or anybody I heard was selling anything that they had.
I have a little gift right there by -- not a gift.
BEHAR: Not a gift. This is very valuable stuff. This is Harpo`s hat.
REYNOLDS: Harpo Marx. I loved the Marks brothers. They`re so funny.
BEHAR: I never put a hat on, but in this case, I will put a hat on.
REYNOLDS: Too cute. You look cute, darling.
BEHAR: I look ridiculous.
REYNOLDS: Well, no, it`s not your type. You have to have a bell to go with it.
But I have, you know, Charlie Chaplain and, of course, all the wonderful costumes, Monroe, I`ve got 11 Monroe`s costumes, her beautiful white dress.
BEHAR: Oh, the dress from -- not "Some Like It Hot," from the "Seven Year Itch."
REYNOLDS: The subway.
BEHAR: Which the dress goes up -- that`s the "Seven-Year Itch," right/
How much -- there it is. We`re showing a picture of it. How much do you think you`d get for that?
REYNOLDS: Well, we`re supposed to get over $1 million.
BEHAR: Really?
REYNOLDS: That`s been offered that in China, and but I hate to see anything go out of America. You know? It is -- American films have influenced the world for 100 years, over 100 years.
BEHAR: Right.
REYNOLDS: And naturally, our history is what should sustain and last. And I wanted to make all this for a museum for the -- for American fans. I just couldn`t raise the right money and I just couldn`t get the industry p interested.
But now, we have so many fabulous costumes, 5,000 costumes and cars.
BEHAR: We`ll talk more about it in just a minute when we come back.
REYNOLDS: OK.
BEHAR: Yes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the fabulous Debbie Reynolds.
You know, I have some Facebook questions. People want to ask you, OK?
REYNOLDS: Yes, that`s fine.
BEHAR: Who was the love of your life?
REYNOLDS: Oh, gosh.
BEHAR: But we know it wasn`t Eddie Fisher.
REYNOLDS: Well, it was Eddie Fisher was my first love.
BEHAR: Who is the love of your life?
REYNOLDS: My husband is the love of my life I would say. Robert Wagner, I had a very big crush on.
BEHAR: R.J.?
REYNOLDS: Yes, R.J.
BEHAR: Did you have a thing with him or just a crush?
REYNOLDS: No, not a thing with him.
BEHAR: You just liked him?
REYNOLDS: Oh, sure. I thought he was gorgeous and wonderful. Whether he`s married or not, you know, you just asked me who I had a crush on. So, I would say I loved David Niven, I thought he was -- Dick Van Dyke, who was on the other night on your show. He was adorable, he is adorable.
BEHAR: Isn`t he adorable?
REYNOLDS: Oh, yes. He just fell in love with a younger girl. I`m out just like that.
BEHAR: Really?
REYNOLDS: Before I was in, I was out.
BEHAR: It says, ask Debbie what was her most beloved role in a movie?
REYNOLDS: Oh, "The Unsinkable Molly Brown."
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
REYNOLDS: Yes, it was wonderful.
BEHAR: That was good.
REYNOLDS: Yes, great music, great dances.
BEHAR: I never realized until I saw the "Titanic" that that woman was on the boat, Molly Brown. I didn`t know what that was about.
REYNOLDS: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: You know? She didn`t go down.
"Postcard from the Edge," fact or fiction. You said it not fact, right? "Postcards from the Edge"?
REYNOLDS: No, it`s not fact, no. But it was great writing and that was my daughter.
BEHAR: Yes. Your relationship with Carrie is interesting because you`ve gone through periods where you`re friends and then you get mad at each other. Isn`t that true?
REYNOLDS: Well, I`m a mother, I`m her mother and I feel as though I must tell her the truth. When I feel there`s something going wrong in, my opinion what`s going wrong -- but if she doesn`t feel as though it`s not going wrong, she`s not going to mind me and she doesn`t. So, fine, she`s had a very successful career. And after all, "Postcards from the Edge" was just one of the little things. You know, "Star Wars," "Wishful Drinking" - -
BEHAR: Oh, yes, she`s a very talented writer.
REYNOLDS: Now, she`s on that diet that --
BEHAR: Jenny Craig.
REYNOLDS: Jenny Craig.
BEHAR: She`s lot some weight, huh.
REYNOLDS: Forty pounds.
BEHAR: Well, good for her.
REYNOLDS: Isn`t that good?
BEHAR: Is she happy and excited that she`s thinner?
REYNOLDS: Yes, she`s very excited. Now she only has two boobs.
BEHAR: How many about did she have before?
REYNOLDS: Well, one was on her back.
BEHAR: Oh, really? Oh. I hate that.
REYNOLDS: Yes. It`s not a good look. It`s going to be hard to make your clothes fit, you know?
BEHAR: That`s not genetic, is it? You don`t have a boob in your back, do you?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: No music, please.
(LAUGHTER)
REYNOLDS: No music.
BEHAR: No music here. I have to hear Zsa Zsa Gabor is sick. She`s home. She`s in the hospital today. I understand from her husband she watches the show.
So, you could give her a sort --
REYNOLDS: Zsa Zsa, if you`re listening, darling, I hope you`re going to be better and you`re going to get your leg fixed up and you divorce your husband right away.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Debbie, thanks so much for coming by.
Debbie`s memorabilia auction kicks off June 18th. For information, go to profiles in history.com. And if you`re in New Jersey, check out Debbie`s at McCarter Theater act live on Saturday. And at the New Jersey Performing Arts Center on Sunday.
The woman is working.
Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
REYNOLDS: Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
END
