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Nancy Grace
Tot Mom Trial Comes to Halt
Aired May 18, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the case of 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminates with skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home, confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct-taping, placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash. The murder trial of Tot Mom Casey Anthony underway.
Bombshell tonight. Jury selection screeches to a halt. Is Tot Mom set to plead guilty to the brutal murder of 2-year-old Caylee? Tot Mom bursts into tears as the judge orders jurors and lawyers alike back at 8:30 tomorrow morning. Absent from court, Tot Mom`s lead attorney, Jose Baez. Was he thrown off the case or did he quit. His explanation for being AWOL: He says, "It`s a private matter."
(VIDEO CLIP)
BELVIN PERRY, JUDGE: I haven`t pulled out the stop watch. 9 o`clock Monday morning, opening statements will commence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s get to work.
PERRY: Time is sort of the essence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I request to 1 p.m., judge.
PERRY: To 1 o`clock. Mr. Mason, have you had an opportunity to discuss the matter with Ms. Anthony.
CHENEY MASON, ATTORNEY: I have Your Honor.
PERRY: This court will be in recess until 8:30 tomorrow morning. Time is sort of the essence. This court will be in recess until 8:30 tomorrow morning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why is she crying already?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An abrupt halt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any comment at all Cheney on -- on what caused the delay?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there a plea deal in the works?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could be a plea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There could be a plea, now. That`s a huge bombshell. Lead attorney, Jose Baez was not in the courtroom when this went down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Others are questioning whether Anthony`s lead attorney, Jose Baez, has been removed from the case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Arranged all of this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some on the internet have even referred to a moment during jury selection this morning where Casey Anthony appeared to possibly say something to her attorney along the lines of, "Do you want to go for it."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The trial is on hold but the judge did not say why but quoted saying, "there was a matter."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t even think straight at this moment."
GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Jury selection screeches to a halt. Is Tot Mom set to plead guilty to the brutal murder of 2-year-old Caylee. Straight out to Jean Casarez with in session -- she was in court today. Jean, what happened.
JEAN CASAREZ: Nancy, it was quite a day because the morning started out, the defense was arguing their objection to jury selection, the process, the procedure. They said it`s violating Casey`s constitutional rights. The judge denied that motion.
GRACE: Ok, wait, wait, wait, stop Jane. Jane. Stop. Tell me something I don`t know. I`ve heard that every single day of trial, that the defense doesn`t like the jury selection or process.
CASAREZ: You`ve never heard a formal .
GRACE: This is the jury selection process.
CASAREZ: You`ve never heard.
GRACE: But, can I hear about court screeching to a halt?
CASAREZ: All right, first of all, you`ve never heard a formal motion in court objecting to it because that`s right for an interlocutory appeal. But, then, hours later, the judge, who was pushing this jury selection along suddenly said, folks it`s over. It`s over. It is dismissed until 8:30 tomorrow morning.
GRACE: To Michael Christian, Senior Field Producer in session, also at the courthouse at Clearwater. Everybody, we are live in Florida tonight bringing you the latest in the jury selection and trial of Tot Mom Casey Anthony. We are taking your calls live, including our entire panel.
Michael, from the very beginning, Jose Baez and his defense team have objected to striking as you go, which is a mode of striking a jury. Very simply put, you bring 100 jurors in there, what they want to do is question 100 jurors and then sift back through them and then strike. What the judge is making them do, which is also approved, is you talk to a juror, you strike them or don`t strike them there on the spot. They have complained about that from the very beginning, have they not?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, IN SESSION, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER: They have complained repeatedly and I must say, Nancy, I think the prosecution is also not happy with the way this is working but the defense has been much more vocal about it. They have said that they just, you know, have to be firm representatives for their client, firm defenders, and they say that they are being hamstrung by the way that the judge is doing this jury selection.
So, I don`t think both sides -- I don`t think either side is happy with this but the defense has been much more vocal about it.
Unleash the lawyers joining us tonight, Judge Gino Brogdon, former judge, Fulton Superior Court, trial lawyer, and author of Demons in the Crawlspace. John Burris, renowned defense attorney out of the San Francisco jurisdiction. Judge, very quickly, yes, no, isn`t it true that it`s just as acceptable to strike a jury strike as you go as opposed to talking to 100 people, then going back and using your strikes.
GINO BROGDON, FORMER JUDGE: Absolutely, Nancy, it may be uncomfortable for the lawyers because they want to compare one person being acceptable as to another once the whole process is done but the judge hasn`t violated anything here.
GRACE: Yes. And -- and John, I understand what they want. They want to talk to all, say, 100 jurors and then go, hey, I hate number 99 but I -- I hate her less than I hate number 2 so I`m going to save that strike and get rid of number 2. They want to compare all of them. That`s their objection. They`ve been whining about it since day one. All attorneys want to talk to the whole panel first. That`s not unusual. But, what the judge is doing is entirely constitutional.
JOHN BURRIS, ATTORNEY: Well, they say it`s constitutional. I -- I happen to agree with the defense lawyers here and I think that this process is a significant disadvantage and I -- I can`t say if it`s constitutional or not but in certain terms of what a defense lawyer wants to do in trying to get the best representation for his client, I think he should do it more openly than this.
GRACE: Ok. But that`s not what the constitution says, Burris.
BURRIS: I didn`t say it was unconstitutional.
GRACE: Yes.
BURRIS: I`m saying it`s not fair and that`s.
GRACE: You said I`m not sure it`s constitutional.
BURRIS: I -- I -- I can`t say it`s constitutional or not.
GRACE: This is .
BURRIS: It`s not fair.
GRACE: This is the law. This is the law. The law is that that is an accepted mode of jury selection and, as I said at the beginning of the show, they have been complaining from the very beginning. What I want to get to, Robyn Walensky, WDBO, in court today also, is the judge coming out on the bench, briefly speaking to the defense, "Have you talked to Ms. Anthony about this matter?" They say yes. Tot Mom breaks down in tears and he says, all right, court`s over until tomorrow morning. Report back 0830 hours in the morning, everybody. Tell me, describe it, what happened?
ROBYN WALENSKY, REPORTER, WDBO: Nancy, we have a major league mystery on our hands. Jose Baez starts the day. He`s adamant about getting to the remaining 15 jurors. The judge reveals that they only had the courthouse booked until Thursday night. The judge makes a phone call. He extends our stay here in Clearwater for another two days, for Friday and Saturday. They take this extended lunch break until 1 o`clock. They come back and the whole thing is off without explanation. I was in the elevator with Jose Baez as he left the court with his sunglasses on. Do we know if he`s sick? We have no idea.
GRACE: Well, Michael Christian, you saw him later in the cafeteria -- earlier in the cafeteria, spoke briefly to him and he seemed absolutely fine. Is that correct?
CHRISTIAN: You know, I spoke to him before court started in the morning today, Nancy, and I also spoke to him just -- when the lunch break started. He seemed absolutely fine. We were chatting. I had complimented him on the suite he had on, which he seemed to like. I did see him by the cafeteria, which is also right by the exit of the courthouse just after the lunch break. Now, I believe he left because we never saw him in court in the afternoon.
GRACE: Ok. Here are the alternatives. Baez has issued a statement saying this is, "An entirely private matter. Jury selection will resume tomorrow at 8:30." He doesn`t say he`s going to be there. Here`s the choices:
One, he was fired and Tot Mom broke down in tears. Two, he quit with a rift with Tot Mom. Three, they`ve got a plea deal in the works. Four, they are appealing the jury selection process up to the appellate court.
Now, and you`ve got the obvious choice, according to Baez, that he had to leave for a private personal reason. It better be good to leave in the middle of a death penalty case. What do you think about it Jean Casarez?
I think I`ve got Jean with me. Jean are you there? All right, I`m not hearing Jean.
CASAREZ: I heard that but I did not hear your question.
GRACE: Yes. What do you think, there are the alternatives. What`s your opinion?
CASAREZ: The judge who has -- my opinion is we won`t know until 8:30 tomorrow morning and we may not know then but my opinion is the judge felt it was serious enough to warrant a dismissal of a jury selection that he is pushing -- pushing to keep going and to find that jury.
GRACE: So, Michael Christian, this is what we will know in the morning. We will know if they are going to enter a plea. We will know if Baez is off the case, whether he shows up tomorrow morning or not. We will know if an interlocutory appeal to the whole process has been filed. At the time that I go to air tonight, nothing has been filed on the docket that we can find at the appellate court. Maybe there will be something there tomorrow morning. That`s what we will know tomorrow morning at 8:30. We`ll know if they are resuming jury selection with Baez sitting as the lead attorney, will we not know that, Michael Christian?
CHRISTIAN: Well, certainly, we`ll see if Jose Baez is there, we`ll know that. We`ll certainly see if they start the voir dire process again and start questioning new jurors. We`ll know then. You know, one person had speculated earlier today, Nancy, that, perhaps, if there was a plea, it wouldn`t be taken here in Pinellas County because they are basically just using this space, that this trial is really based in Orlando, in Orange County, and if there was going to be a plea, it might make sense to do it back there.
Well, we believe that court will be in session again at 8:30 tomorrow morning here in Pinellas County. So, that may somehow suggest that a plea is not in the works, at least not before 8:30 tomorrow morning.
GRACE: Well, another thing we know, Robyn Walensky, is the judge went home. The judge left Pinellas and went back home to Orange County. Now, a lot of people are reading into that, interpreting that to mean, hey, it`s all over. I disagree with that interpretation. Hey, it ended today at 1 o`clock. What`s he`s going to do, twiddle his thumbs in his hotel room when he can go home to his wife and family and get a home-cooked meal? Well, I would leave. It`s a two hour drive, why not?
WALENSKY: Nancy, this judge, Perry, he`s under tremendous pressure, financial pressure, due to the, you know, economic constraints. Today, in the court, he said, you know what, he said, I`m going to get a bill for all these sheriff`s deputies. The people in Orange County are paying for all this. And, he -- he might even have a bill for a hotel room for -- since Tuesday, because these jurors -- this trial was supposed to start on Tuesday. He doesn`t even know if he`s paying for that bill, too.
GRACE: Well, listen, I don`t think this judge is putting a price tag on justice and what this is all about is a murdered 2-year-old little girl, her body found, basically skeletonized with weeds growing up between her limbs, what was left of them and, now, on trial, is her own mother. We`ll be right back. We are live in Florida and the trial of Tot Mom, Casey Anthony.
(VIDEO CLIP)
PERRY: Does the defense have any more back strikes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: : Not at the moment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judge, at this time, we would exercise the preemptory on judge.
PERRY: Unfortunately, you can`t use preemptory challenges .
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there something .
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes it is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I figured that would be denied.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP).
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re in a contained situation.
PERRY: This court will be in recess.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No explanation was given.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All rise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you kidding me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re kind of fishing in the dark, Your Honor, of not knowing what is coming ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a very strange situation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there a plea deal in the works?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re going to be crying every two seconds.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defense has not been happy and they feel that the judge is rushing them along.
PERRY: We`re going to be rocking and rolling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Perceived rush.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, that is the truth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The list of potential jurors is now being narrowed down.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought they were giving us extra time.
PERRY: So don`t get angry with me if I keep you here late today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Beyond frustrated with all of this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. We are live tonight in Florida with the latest in the trial of Casey Anthony, Tot Mom, on trial for the brutal mother of her own little girl, just 2 years old, little Caylee. To Michael Christian, joining us there at the Clearwater Courthouse. Michael, at the moment that the judge came in, obviously disturbed, he had to cancel court for the rest of the day, what happened in court? Describe it for us.
CHRISTIAN: You know, we had come back from lunch, Nancy, and the attorneys had immediately gone back into chambers with the court reporter. So, something was going on the record back there. All the attorneys came out. The prosecutors went to their table but the defense attorneys then went back to the holding cell area where Casey Anthony is kept during recesses and so forth. They came back into the courtroom. The defendant came into the courtroom. The judge took the bench. We expected to start with the next jury -- juror. All of a sudden, the judge asked the question about have you discussed the matter with Ms. Anthony. Yes. Boom. We`re excused until 8:30 tomorrow morning.
People`s mouths were just hanging. Nobody could quite figure out what was going on. The minute Judge Perry was off the bench, reporters literally rushed Jeff Ashton, the prosecutor, because he sits closest to where they sit, trying to find out what was going on. All he would say was the judge had just said court will be recessed until 8:30 tomorrow morning. People were like, why, why, tell us specifically what`s happening and he just answered, "The judge didn`t say on the record." So, we don`t know and they`re not telling but, believe me, it was a moment that nobody was expecting. A few hours before he`d been saying we were going to work until 8 or 9 o`clock at night. All of a sudden we`re going home at 1:30. Nobody could figure it out.
GRACE: And to Leonard Padilla, Bounty Hunter who first bailed Tot Mom out of jail. He is joining us from Sacramento. Leonard, do you think Tot Mom would cop a deal?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: If they renew the 10-year deal that they had offered back before the body was found, I think she will.
GRACE: Yes. That`s not going to happen. What about something more severe than that, say 20, 20 on voluntary, would she take it?
PADILLA: No, I don`t think so. I think she`d take the 10 if they renewed their offer but I don`t think she`d take any more than that. I think it`d -- it`d be a go to trial thing and today it`s -- it`s one of two things, it`s either that or something else that`s very personal with Jose .
GRACE: Baez.
PADILLA: . but I -- I really believe that they renewed their offer.
GRACE: Why? Why would they give this case away at a bargain basement blue-light special steal of 10 years, of which she is only going to do 5 years.
PADILLA: Nancy, they`re not giving the case away. Look at the jury that they selected so far. Nobody -- nobody`s going to find her guilty of first degree, nobody. Not going to happen.
GRACE: I -- I disagree. I completely disagree. To Jean Casarez, you`ve been in court from the very beginning. What is your take on the jury? I know you`ve got a problem, as does everybody, every trial lawyer with one juror who says she can`t pass judgment but that`s one juror. What do you think Jean?
CASAREZ: It`s one juror but for a unanimous guilty vote, it could be a critical juror. This is a juror that initially said I can`t pass judgments based on religion. She was not excused for hardship. She went on. She said, again, I cannot pass judgment when someone else says something about somebody. She passed on. The prosecution tried to get a peremptory challenge. The defense cited it is not a racially neutral reason. Judge denied.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Brandy in Maine, high Brandy.
BRANDY: Hi, how are you Nancy?
GRACE: I`m good dear, what`s your question?
BRANDY: Good, a couple of things. Last week you were talking that she was too scared to tell her parents, now let me just say I have a 2- year-old. I was actually pregnant. GRACE: Whoa. Wait. I didn`t -- I didn`t say that. I didn`t say that. That`s somebody else`s theory that this was an accident.
BRANDY: Oh.
GRACE: But, go ahead.
BRANDY: First thing, you know, if your child is hurt, it doesn`t -- you tell anybody to try to get help for your child and, another thing, I wanted to know why Jose Baez and her haven`t been sitting together, what was the rift in between them two?
GRACE: You know what, that`s very interesting. Robyn Walensky, WDBO, they actually had an audible argument at the table where he told her she was acting like a 2-year-old and they got into an argument at the table. Do we have any idea what the argument was over and do you believe the rift has been mended or is that just for show, Robyn?
WALENSKY: I -- I think it`s all show Nancy. Today, he was sitting on the end, she was sitting as far away from him as possible in the court. Her behavior has been totally bizarre. She has been crying, quivering, compulsively playing with the hair, then that stopped and then today -- and then today, all of a sudden, she starts crying at the end of court. Emotional highs and lows.
GRACE: We are live here in Florida in the trial of Tot Mom Casey Anthony in the murder of her 2-year-old little girl and we are taking your calls. Court screeches to a halt today. Is Tot Mom set to take a sweetheart guilty plea?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jury selection came to an abrupt halt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know what the hell`s going on.
PERRY: This court will be in recess until 8:30 tomorrow morning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could be a plea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This has become such a mess.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could be that an appeal is being filed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The judge did not say why but quoted there was a matter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They wanted to speed the process up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We questioned one juror between three and four hours.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It doesn`t make sense here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not unusual. Casey Anthony`s been sitting there listening to prospective jurors.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do believe she is guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone in her situation might get scared and that could be the impetus to get a plea deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live here in Florida, bringing you the latest in the trial of Tot Mom Casey Anthony in the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee. Out to the lines. Hillary in Connecticut. Hi Hillary.
HILLARY: Hi, I just want to tell you I love you so much and God Bless your beautiful children.
GRACE: Thank you.
HILLARY: And, I wanted to ask you could this private matter have anything to do with George and Cindy. It seems like maybe Jose was going to talk to George`s lawyer. Could there be any way that he could be taking the heat to save Tot Mom.
GRACE: You know what Hillary (PH), in fact, it could. There`s been a lot of speculation that Baez has an issue at home. He`s got two children and a wife but, still, George and Cindy aren`t .
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, CIRCUIT JUDGE, ORANGE COUNTY: I have to pull out the stopwatch. 9:00 Monday morning, opening statements will commence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s get to work.
PERRY: Time is sort of the essence.
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: Our request to 1:00 p.m., Judge?
PERRY: Until 1:00.
Mr. Mason, have you had an opportunity to discuss the matter with Miss Anthony?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have, your honor.
PERRY: This court will be in recess until 8:30 tomorrow morning. Time is sort of the essence. This court will be in recess until 8:30 tomorrow morning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why is she crying already?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: An abrupt halt.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Any comment at all, Cheney, on what caused the delay?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is there a plea deal in the works?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There could be a plea.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: There could be a plea, now? That`s a huge bombshell. Lead attorney Jose Baez was not in the courtroom when this went down.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Others are questioning whether Anthony`s lead attorney Jose Baez has been removed from the case.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: Arranged all of this.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Some on the Internet have even referred to a moment during jury selection this morning where Casey Anthony appeared to possibly say something to her attorney along the lines of, do you want to go for it?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The trial is on hold but the judge did not say why but quoted saying, "There was a matter."
CASEY ANTHONY: I can`t even think straight at this moment.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. We are live here in Florida in the trial of tot mom Casey Anthony in the murder of her little girl, 2- year-old Caylee.
Straight back to Michael Christian, with us, Michael Christian, Robyn Walensky, Jean Casarez. All in court today. We are all camped outside the courthouse.
Michael, for those just joining us, recap what happened. Is tot mom set to enter a guilty plea to a sweetheart deal?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, IN SESSION: Well, you know, we don`t know what`s happening, Nancy, but here`s what we saw. We returned from the lunch break. The attorneys immediately went back in chambers to talk to the judge. Court reporter accompanied them so whatever happened it`s on the record.
When the attorneys came out the prosecutors went to their table but the defense attorneys went out a separate door back to the holding cell area where Casey Anthony is normally kept.
A little while later they came out with the defendant, they returned to their tables. Judge Perry took the bench and everybody assumed jury selection is just going to pick up again. Instead, what happened is what you`ve seen. The judge said, Mr. Mason, have you spoken about this matter with Miss Anthony? Mr. Cheney Mason said, yes. That was it. The judge said that court is recessed until 8:30 tomorrow morning.
Everybody in that courtroom literally had their mouth hanging out. Nobody knew what was going on and nobody would tell us anything. And nobody has told us anything. We just don`t know.
GRACE: Well, this is what I know. No appeal has been filed in the appellate court. We have checked the docket right before we went to air. Nothing there. There`s no suggestion that court is not going to resume tomorrow morning at 8:30. There`s no sign that anything more significant is going to go down other than jury selection but many court watchers believe a plea is in the works.
Jean Casarez, also in court when this all happened, let`s play it back very carefully, Liz. Many people believe tot mom said something about, I guess we should go for the plea.
Let`s see it, Liz. OK. Don`t see it.
Liz, can you play the video of tot mom in court so we can see what she said? OK. I`m not seeing her talking. Let`s see -- I can`t -- Jean, I can`t possibly tell what she`s saying. There have been actual professionals trying to determine what she said. It`s impossible, Jean.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": No. It is. But I think the one differentiation factor is what Michael just described to you, that whole proceeding right at the end, Jose Baez wasn`t there.
You know I went in the cafeteria for lunch, Nancy. The defense attorneys always sit at a table. They eat lunch together. They were there during the lunch hour eating at a table except for Jose Baez. He was gone.
GRACE: OK. What`s the likelihood, to Gino Brogdon and John Burris.
John, what`s the likelihood he`s been fired or quit?
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think likely at all. I just don`t see that at the state of the proceedings for him to do that or getting fired. This is a very critical stage. He`s been involved in the case for a mighty, mighty long time.
I can`t imagine that actually happening at this stage. And plus you just can`t quit that easily. You have to have a hearing about this. The judge is not going to let a person walk away from a death penalty case just like that because counsel -- the lawyer or the client doesn`t want him. There has to be some discussion about that. So I don`t see that as likely at all.
GRACE: What about it, Judge? What do you make of it? Attorneys can quit if they need to or if the client wants them off and the client has to just go forward with trial with the rest of the fleet of attorneys she`s got.
In a non-death penalty case, it is a lot easier, but there are only two things --
GRACE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- that are going to stop this judge`s train toward getting this jury in the box. One is a problem with counsel and the other is a plea. The magic of the judge selecting the jurors or allowing the lawyers to select the jurors as they go along is both sides get to see their jury forming and gelling right before their eyes and if they don`t like what they see a plea looks more attractive.
GRACE: Out to Woodrow Trip, former police commander, how would the cops and detectives react that have worked this case so hard to a sweetheart deal where tot mom walks in a couple of years?
WOODROW TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER: Well, Nancy, this is our meat and potatoes. This is what we live for. These type of cases and being able to investigate them. And as a police officer, absolutely. This is when we get frustrated with the justice system when we perceive that someone such as this may walk with either no sentence or a very light or lessened sentence.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation, who was in the same shoes many years ago when his little girl Polly was abducted and murdered.
Marc, as a parent how would you take -- would you take very kindly to a plea deal in a case like this?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I don`t for one minute -- I believe that anything short, anything deal short of life without the possibility of parole would be political suicide for the district attorney.
There is far too much information and evidence in the public domain right now so that if he were to -- he or she were to do anything like that they would be voted out of office at the earliest possible moment.
GRACE: To Dr. Howard Oliver, former deputy medical examiner, forensic pathologist, joining us out of L.A.
Dr. Oliver, thank you for being with us. I mean, the condition of the body, describe what the prosecution knows about the discovery of that child`s body. How could they possibly let her go with a light sentence? Describe what you know, Doctor.
HOWARD OLIVER, FMR. DEPUTY MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: What I know is the body was skeletonized and it had been in position and skeletonized long enough that there was vegetation growing up between the bones.
GRACE: Dr. Saunders, Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist, New York. The callous disregard for this child having been left in a car trunk for how knows -- who knows how many days, while her body decomposed, that`s the state`s theory, then thrown away like trash. How could there be a sweetheart deal?
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I totally agree with that. It would be an abomination. This woman is clearly a psychopath and she`s callous but since the beginning of the trial it may be that things seem more real to her, real jurors, real judges.
People talking about the possibility of putting her to death. And that may have actually frightened her so it lends more credence to maybe her firing her lead attorney or going for a plea.
GRACE: To Suzanne Constantine, jury consultant, body language expert, just would like to hear your thoughts as a defendant sits there and listens to what`s going on in court, looks at the jury, do they suddenly want to get out of the trial or do they dig in and fight even harder?
SUZANNE CONSTANTINE, JURY CONSULTANT, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Well, when -- you know, she is looking right at the jury. First of all, she`s going to be making eye contact with them and she can actually connect with people and build rapport that way.
And she will be able to tell if maybe you see a juror that`s kind of passing their eyes off to the left or to the right kind of gazing away from her, that she may not be connecting very well. It`s a very dangerous place for her to be -- right in front of that jury.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Vicky in Florida. Hi, Vicky.
VICKY, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What is your question, dear?
VICKY: My question is, did you hear from our he local newsroom Channel 8 is what I`m -- in Florida and Tampa Bay with the --
GRACE: Yes.
VICKY: -- Channel 8. And they said, they reported at 5:00 that Baez was sick.
GRACE: Well --
VICKY: Well, it`s on their news.
GRACE: According to our sources he was not sick at all and calmly put on the -- in fact, we have a reporter that spoke to him just before he left the courthouse. He was fine. He looked fine. He carried on a conversation. Put on the sunglasses and walked out, so according to our sources, he`s not sick.
And another thing. Come on. Here`s the deal. When you were trying a death penalty case, even if you get sick, you man up and you keep slugging it out in that courtroom. You don`t` go home sick, with a sniffle and a fever. That`s not what`s going on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CASEY ANTHONY: I can`t do anything. Because I`ve done everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Young lady who`s got some -- definitely got a bit of a criminal path.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel she committed the crime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your honor, I feel that she is guilty.
CASEY ANTHONY: I can`t even swallow right now. It hurts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The well runs dry after this.
CASEY ANTHONY: What the hell is going on?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Jury selection came to an abrupt halt.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m literally at a standstill.
BAEZ: We`re really having a tough time. I`m thinking about defending my client and saving her life.
CASEY ANTHONY: All I can do is sit and think.
PERRY: What opinions if any have you formed?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilt.
CASEY ANTHONY: Come on.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: It is the 11th hour. We are live here in Florida tonight and the latest in the trial of Casey Anthony, tot mom on trial for the murder of her 2-year-old little girl Caylee. Caylee`s remains found just 15 houses from the Anthony home in a heavily wooded area that tot mom had frequented as a child.
Kind of a pet cemetery when she, Casey, the mother, Casey Anthony was a child and lo and behold her own little girl turns up there discarded like she`s trash.
So far, we are getting down to the last handful of jurors. Before a jury of 12 is struck to get in that box and render a verdict that speaks the truth.
Oh, you`re taking a look at photos that will come in to evidence, photos of tot mom partying in the days, even the hours after her little girl goes, quote, "missing."
Out to the lines, to Karen in Ohio. Hi, Karen.
KAREN, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
KAREN: Well, actually, I have a statement, though, because somebody already asked my question.
GRACE: OK.
KAREN: But I do think that someone would have tailed Baez they`d find him at George and Cindy`s house, and secondly, why does everybody make a big deal about Casey waiting 31 days before she told anybody about the baby? It would have been longer because Cindy is the one that dragged her home.
GRACE: You know what? You`re right. Hold Karen in Ohio. I`ve got to ask her another question.
When you say, you think he went straight to George and Cindy`s house, why do you say that?
KAREN: I think that he`s going to let them know before anybody else knows what happens tomorrow morning. I think she --
GRACE: You mean such as a plea deal?
KAREN: Yes .
GRACE: But who would give her a plea, Karen in Ohio? Why would anybody give her anything less than life without parole? I mean if I had this case ready to go to a death penalty trial, why would I cop out to something less than at least LWOP, life without parole? Why?
KAREN: You know what? I have no idea. I wouldn`t do it myself. But I`d make her go. But then I know she`s guilty so I just feel that strongly about it.
GRACE: Well, let me tell you. I think this prosecution believes she`s guilty or they would not bring a case that they did not believe in.
And Michael Christian, you saw Baez just before he left. You said he looked perfectly healthy.
CHRISTIAN: You know, he looked fine to me and it`s interesting you were talking earlier about how -- when you`re on a death penalty case even if you`re sick you`re going to continue. You know there`s a death penalty expert attorney on this case, Ann Finnel (ph). She`s been there every day. She`s had a horrible cold this week. She`s looked horrible. She sounded horrible. She`s talked about it. She`s joked about it.
My god, she was at the podium at one point and during a recess they took some anti-bacterial wipes and wiped it down. She has sounded awful, I`m happy to say she`s finally on the mend it seems. But she was there every day. So I think even if he had been sick, and he didn`t appear to be sick to me, I think he`d still be there. I don`t think illness is the issue here.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, you know what`s unusual, the defense team splitting when they have an hour or so at lunch to huddle. Normally they all sit together. Not so today. Something, something is amiss within the defense team. But that`s not unusual.
Jean, do you think anybody on this jury panel is familiar with the defense expert who`s married to a serial killer? Isn`t that a little creepy? To have this woman fawning all over tot mom and, you know, adjusting her shirt and pushing her hair back and kind of loving on her, picking lint off of her?
And you know this lady is married to a guy who`s convicted of murdering three young -- left her husband, lost custody of her children to marry a death row inmate and here she is fawning all over tot mom?
CASAREZ: Rosalie Bolin is who you`re talking about, Nancy.
GRACE: It`s crazy.
CASAREZ: She has not been in the courtroom since last Friday. Michael Christian, though, I think intimately notes all the cases. He covered them for Court TV.
GRACE: OK. Back to my question, Michael, she`s been in court through the majority of the jury selection. Do you think anybody on that jury panel knows who she is? It was widely publicized when she lost her legal job, left her husband, lost custody to marry a serial killer on death row.
CHRISTIAN: You know, I doubt it. Normally she -- and again, she hasn`t been there this week. She was only there last week.
GRACE: It`s creepy, Michael. It`s creepy.
CHRISTIAN: Normally she sits --
GRACE: Yes, I know that.
CHRISTIAN: -- at a back bench.
GRACE: For the bulk of the jury selection, she`s been in there cozied up to tot mom.
CHRISTIAN: Right. But what I`m saying is --
GRACE: It`s creepy.
CHRISTIAN: She`s at a back bench, Nancy. She`s not at the normal, the regular table, and I`m not sure jurors really pay much attention to her. I think jurors are looking at the main attorneys and not necessarily looking at the other table.
GRACE: Well, you know what? For tot mom`s sake, I hope you`re right because I have seen video out of the courtroom. We have seen her in the courtroom all over tot mom. And if they know who she is that`s not a good look.
But you know what? Right now, everyone is concerned. There`s going to be a guilty plea to a sweetheart deal coming down in the next couple of hours.
I find it just very hard to take it in.
Barbara in Missouri, hi, dear. What`s your question?
BARBARA, CALLER FROM MISSOURI: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hello. What`s your question, Barbara?
BARBARA: I`m sorry. I would like to know who`s paying for all these clothes that she takes -- Casey Anthony come in this every day?
GRACE: Yes.
BARBARA: I mean you can tell it`s not her.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Good question. Robyn Walensky, come on. We`ve seen the way tot mom dresses when she is not in court. Think mini skirt and push-up bra.
So who is providing the Ann Taylor and GAP wardrobe?
(LAUGHTER)
ROBYN WALENSKY, REPORTER, WDBO NEWSRADIO: Jose Baez actually brings her her clothes every day.
I want to point out, Nancy, Monday she was in white, looking very clean. Yesterday, it was pretty in pink. And then today she was in black. And I have to tell you that the black sort of a very somber, dark, against her very pale face. She was biting her nails today. She had a different demeanor, very, very nervous. And the black clothing just contributed to it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live in Florida tonight in the latest in the tot mom murder trial.
To Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids, the father of Polly who was kidnapped and murdered.
Marc, I want to hear your thoughts on a possible plea and what you think is going down in that courtroom.
KLAAS: Well, as I said before, anything less than life without the possibility of parole would be political suicide for the district attorney. I think that she would probably take that at this point. Ultimately with these people --
GRACE: Marc, Marc, no, no, no. To hell with politics. I don`t care.
KLAAS: No, listen.
GRACE: I want to know what you think. You`ve been there. I`ve been in the courtroom as a victim, too.
KLAAS: Sure.
GRACE: What do you think about a sweetheart deal?
KLAAS: Well, I hope that there`s no sweetheart deal. I hope that there`s nothing less than life without the possibility of parole. But she right now is looking at her own mortality. She realizes and understands that she may be sent to the execution chamber.
In my experience with these characters is they will do anything to avoid their own execution. And if she thinks that it`s a very real possibility, she might be willing to plead to life without the possibility of parole, and then be the big fish in the small pond.
I believe that she has no problem with women`s sexuality. I think that that is something that she would probably enjoy. She would be able to play and be played over the course of the rest of her life.
GRACE: Everyone, we are live in the courthouse tomorrow morning, and we`ll bring you the latest.
Let`s stop and remember Marine Corporal William Fulks, 23, Culloden, West Virginia, killed Iraq. Awarded the Purple Heart, Combat Action Ribbon, Iraq Campaign Medal. Served Afghanistan, too.
Attended Marshal University and dreamed of being an architect. Leaves behind parents Kim and Billy, stepfather Tim, sisters Amanda and Christina.
William Fulks, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And tonight, we need your help for Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation and Beyond Missing. Since the murder of his little girl, Polly, he has crusaded for victims.
Let`s keep his funding going. To donate, go to beyondmissing.com/donate.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
