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Nancy Grace
Casey Anthony Trial Day Two, Friends and Roommates Testify
Aired May 25, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the case of 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct- taping, placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash. The murder trial of tot mom Casey Anthony under way.
Tot mom`s lawyer tells a stunned courtroom she has nothing to do with Caylee`s death and disappearance, but instead blames her own father, former police detective George Anthony, claiming he shows up holding 2-year-old Caylee`s dead body and that he and he alone disposes of little Caylee, that he never called 911, police and ambulance, but instead that her father hides Caylee`s body, leaving it to rot. Tot mom then claims George sexually molests her since age 8, sending her to grade school after forcing her into oral sex.
And another wild theory emerges from the defense, tot mom claiming meter reader Roy Kronk actually steals Caylee`s remains, hiding them in secret, redepositing them to collect the reward.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, a parade of tot mom`s live-in lovers, roommates, so-called friends take the stand, giving the jury a bird`s-eye view into tot mom`s hard party girl lifestyle, complete with boozy late nights, hot body contests, living and loving the single life. If this jury expected a grieving mom, forget about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caylee Anthony died on June 16th, 2008, when she drowned in her family`s swimming pool.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Someone just said that Caylee was dead this morning, that she drowned in the pool. (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have anything to say about the new theory that Caylee might be dead, it might have been an accident?
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: Shut up! Shut up!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you dispose of the body of your granddaughter?
GEORGE ANTHONY: No, I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I asked her, where -- you know, I haven`t seen Caylee in a while. You know, where is she?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she ever tell you that her daughter was missing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That her daughter had been kidnapped?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That she was out looking for her daughter?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she ask you for help in trying find her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ever appeared worried about where Caylee was?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were with the defendant at Fusian.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was in a couple of our contests.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hot body contest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was in a hot body contest.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How would you describe her demeanor?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She always seemed like she was having a good time. I mean, she`s not an introvert by any means.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything Casey could do to protect her child, she did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, a parade of tot mom`s live-in lovers, roommates so-called friends take the stand, giving the jury a bird`s eye-view into tot mom`s hard party lifestyle complete with boozy late nights, hot body contests, living and loving the single life. If this jury expected a grieving mom, forget about it.
Significance, relevance? All this partying, the hot body contest, working as a shot girl at a bar, the mini-skirts, the push-up bras all during the weeks, the days, literally the hours after little Caylee goes missing.
We are taking your calls. Straight out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session," in court today. Everybody, we are camped right outside the Orlando courthouse. We`ve all been in court all day today to bring you the latest tonight. Jean, what can you tell me about today`s lineup?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Nancy, you`re right, young people were the witnesses on the stand, people that Casey Anthony knew. They talked about her at Fusian. They talked about on June 20th, days after Caylee went missing, that she participated in the hot body contest, that she was in charge of the shot girls. And the jury got the see some of those party pictures. They also focused on Casey Anthony`s demeanor before and after Caylee went missing, that she was always happy and jovial, never sad, never angry, no confrontations with anybody.
GRACE: Everyone, we have just received in exclusive video of little Caylee on her 2nd birthday. These are home videos of Caylee. Take a look. Here you see a pool party in the Anthonys` yard. This is right beside their pool we`re hearing so much about. There`s little Caylee. Beautiful.
To the right, you`ll see tot mom. There`s Cindy taking care of Caylee. There`s tot mom in the white T-shirt to the right. Notice it`s Cindy taking care of Caylee.
How many times do you think George and Cindy have played this video over and over and over, looking at some of the very last images of Caylee? And from what we are learning now, evidence in this video and others like it, the feud, the power struggle between Cindy Anthony and tot mom.
Back to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent for "In Session." I don`t think it was much of a feud on Cindy`s side. I know after this party, tot mom complained bitterly that her mother, Caylee`s grandmother, took over, in her words, and was very resentful about it.
But you know, Jean, that`s what happens. When you don`t raise your own child, when you let somebody else change the dirty diapers and change the sheets at 2:00 o`clock in the morning and dress them and put them into their swimsuit and their swim dipes (ph) and put the suntan lotion on and feed them every day and make sure they take their vitamins, that`s who becomes the mother. I don`t care who the biological mother is. That`s who becomes the mother, Jean Casarez, and that is why tot mom was resentful of Cindy because she was not mothering Caylee. Cindy was.
CASAREZ: Well, there was one testimony today by a young woman who was the girlfriend of a roommate of Tony Lazzaro`s. She said she went to the front door of the apartment. Little Caylee answered the door. She saw Casey go into Tony Lazzaro`s apartment. She went out on the balcony, and she said, I was concerned. I didn`t want to leave because little Caylee was out on that balcony all by herself.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Linda Kenney Baden, former attorney for Casey Anthony, tot mom, renowned defense attorney, Tom Luka, former attorney for Lee Anthony, joining us out of Orlando, John Burris, defense attorney, San Francisco, Kirby Clements, former prosecutor turned defense attorney, Atlanta.
Linda Kenney Baden, weigh in.
LINDA KENNEY BADEN, FMR. DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: Hi, Nancy. Well, just before we went on the air, Nancy, there was a bombshell. There was a woman who was the roommate who also testified that she rode in Casey`s car after the 16th and there was no smell.
So you know, we talk about theories, but you know, the prosecution has a lot of theories, too. All we really know is that there was a tragic death here. And there`s no denying that. There`s a tragic death. It`s a tragedy for the family. The question is, is it accident? Is it manslaughter? Is it homicide?
GRACE: OK. Just hold on. That`s not all that we know.
BADEN: For you, I will hold on forever!
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Thank you, Linda. That`s not all that we know. Jean Casarez, let`s talk about what Linda Kenney Baden just said, the woman who was a witness in court earlier today that was in the car. What day was she in the car, Jean?
CASAREZ: It would have been mid-June, I would say. But it was -- it was a bombshell in the courtroom when we heard that she and others were driving in the car, they didn`t smell anything. Another challenge for the prosecution, Nancy -- witness after witness said that Casey was a wonderful mother. They saw her with Caylee before Caylee suddenly disappeared.
GRACE: You know, to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. In light of the fact that we know there is scientific evidence of chloroform in tot mom`s trunk, that we know that there is a post-mortem hair from Caylee`s head in her trunk, what difference does it make if a witness was in the car the day Caylee was murdered or the day after Caylee was murdered and did not smell decomposition?
How do I know tot mom didn`t put the body in one place and then move it to the trunk? All I know is, from the scientific evidence the state has previewed to us, that that body was in the trunk. What difference does it make when she put the body there?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Oh, I agree. This isn`t about somebody driving around in the car on the day that Caylee disappeared. This is about the failure to report. This is about the 31 days that went by before anybody realized that Caylee was missing. This is about the litany of lies that she told the investigators. This is about the aberrant behavior during that 31 days, And then finally, this is about discovering little Caylee and all of the evidence that seems to tie her to the family home.
GRACE: To Thomas Luka, a very well-known lawyer in the Orlando area. He is representing Lee in this case -- Lee, who has also been dragged through the mud, tot mom alluding that he molested her.
And let me point out to everybody, DNA tests were run on Caylee, and Lee or George Anthony are not the father. Thomas, is Lee trying to just function under the radar during all this? What do you make so far of both the state and the defense strategy?
THOMAS LUKA, ATTORNEY FOR LEE ANTHONY: Well, I can tell you Mr. Anthony is looking forward to having his day in court and testifying, I believe for both the state and the defense.
As far as the state`s case, they`re going about it in a very methodical way that I would expect. However, I did not expect the -- probably the boldest defense strategy I`ve ever heard before, and I think that`s what we have here. Now, whether they can prove it or not, that`s -- we have to wait and see what happens later on in this trial.
GRACE: You are seeing exclusive video we obtained of Caylee`s 2nd birthday, this child`s life cut short.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we`re going to play this game, then I`m going to play a game.
GEORGE ANTHONY: I wish I could have been a better dad and better grandpa, you know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you dispose of the body of your granddaughter?
GEORGE ANTHONY: No, I did not.
CASEY ANTHONY: You`ve been a great dad and you`ve been the best grandfather. Don`t for a second think otherwise.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It all began when Casey was 8 years old and her father came into her room and began to touch her inappropriately.
CASEY ANTHONY: You and Mom have been the best grandparents. Caylee`s been so lucky!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you obtain duct tape from your shed or garage and place it over the nose and mouth of Caylee Anthony?
GEORGE ANTHONY: No, I did not.
CASEY ANTHONY: I can`t even put into words how glad I am that she`s had both of you!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something`s not right with this girl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Also on the stand today, after a vicious in-court fight by the defense trying to bar the witness from the stand, Brian Burner. Now, as you recall, Brian Burner is the neighbor from whom tot mom borrowed a shovel, borrowed a shovel in the days after Caylee goes missing.
What is the significance of Brian Burner, Natisha Lance?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, it was just a few days after June 16th when Casey Anthony went next door to the neighbor. She borrowed the shovel. But that`s not all. Brian Burner also said that he saw Casey Anthony on two different occasions with her car backed into the garage. Now, this is significant because he had never seen Casey with her car backed into the garage ever before.
And also, when she borrowed that shovel, he said that she had it for about an hour. It didn`t look as if there was any mud on it. Casey Anthony didn`t look dirty or anything like that. But he also said that Casey asked to borrow the shovel to dig up some bamboo shoots that were in the back yard.
GRACE: And of course, another wacky theory emerges from the defense that utility meter (SIC) Roy Kronk actually stole Caylee`s remains, buried there in a makeshift pet cemetery in the woods, stole them, hid them in secret, then went back out, replaced them there in the woods so he could collect the reward.
John Burris, you`ve come up with some pretty creative and successful defenses before. What`s your theory on what Kronk did with the remains, put them in a jar on his coffee table? Come on! That`s crazy.
JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I have to tell you that is the most bizarre story I have ever heard from a defense point of view. I don`t know why the defense is making that particular allegation. I can understand the others in terms of a desire, but this one doesn`t make sense at all, and it doesn`t advance his case at all because at the end of the day, the case is about his client and the family. But to put this guy involved in it doesn`t make any sense at all to me, so...
GRACE: Put Burris back up. John, isn`t it true, when you try a case, you have got to gain and you have got to deserve the jury`s respect and trust? You have to.
BURRIS: Absolutely. Absolutely.
GRACE: Because once you lose it, anything you say means nothing. And this wacky theory about George, Lee and now Roy Kronk, it makes everything else they say tainted with the same brush.
BURRIS: I don`t think that that`s necessarily true because I think that what is really happening here is that he`s trying to at least offer some degree of mitigation to this jury early to account for maybe this girl`s bizarre behavior. And he`s really trying to offer a way to keep this case from being a murder case and maybe down to a manslaughter of some kind. So that`s what I think is happening here.
GRACE: What about it, Kirby Clements?
KIRBY CLEMENTS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely right. I think that does make sense. I mean, I do think that defense is a little bit crazy. But at the same time, you know, you do have the guy wandering around the property, finding things, so they`ve got to make some hay of it. But I`m a bit loathe to use that -- that meter reader defense.
But I think that the defense is doing actually -- they`ve raised some issues I think are necessary to raise. And I also want to point out, and I -- I think you asked somebody else to address it. What about that father and how he acted on that videotape when they mentioned the swimming pool, how he snapped and went crazy? That adds some credence to the defense in this case to me.
GRACE: No. I disagree. I think that it shows it`s absolutely untrue. As a matter of fact, as we go out, Liz, let`s hear the sound of tot mom behind bars when it`s brought up about the pool accident theory.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: How are you feeling? (INAUDIBLE) None of us. Lee`s been sick. Dad`s blown up at the media.
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, I heard.
CASEY ANTHONY: Someone just said that Caylee was dead this morning, that she drowned in the pool. That`s the newest story out there.
CINDY ANTHONY: Surprise, surprise. It`s very hard.
CASEY ANTHONY: Well, yes, I -- trust me, I know that. Someone just sent me some of the stuff that`s been on line, comments that people have been leaving of off certain articles, I guess, that have been written, and it was very upsetting last night to see that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look what you`ve done! Your mother will never forgive you.
CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever heard of the Fusian Ultra?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, that she would come home drunk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A picture tells a thousand words.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was partying and having a good time, drinking (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was she dancing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the defendant participate in the hot body contest?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, sir. It was just a thin knit dress. It was a bluish color.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any emotion to you that would indicate that she was upset about anything?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was she considered like a big sister to the girls, or something like that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Explain that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She always made sure that we were OK, that we were taken care of and that we weren`t in harm`s way at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You went to Blockbuster with her that night. Do you -- can you -- how would you describe her demeanor?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The way she was every day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which was?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy. Happy to see me, having a grand old time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: In court today, everyone, we are hearing a string of lovers, friends, roommates detailing tot mom`s life, hard-partying lifestyle in the days and weeks following Caylee`s disappearance.
We are live here outside the Orlando courthouse bringing you everything that happened in court today and taking your calls live. To Robyn Walensky with WDBO. All of these witnesses lead up to Tony Lazzaro. What is the significance of the roommates` testimony, for instance? What did they -- what kernel of knowledge did they provide to the jury?
ROBYN WALENSKY, WDBO: Nancy, there was a theme among the three friends, the three roommates. They all said that Casey Anthony was acting normal, that she was a regular 22-year-old girl, friendly, outgoing, playing house, doing laundry, cooking, but that she was acting normal, that she wasn`t distraught, she wasn`t depressed, and she wasn`t angry. In fact, she was out partying at clubs here in Orlando.
GRACE: You know, Jean, contrary to the party girl story, we also hear today from Brian Burner, the neighbor who loans the shovel -- interesting. He says the week of June 16th -- now, he`s been living next to tot mom and the Anthonys for years and years. Never has she come over to borrow anything. She comes the week Caylee goes missing to borrow a shovel for the first time ever, keeps it for a while, brings it back. Who`s to say the body wasn`t hidden somewhere else and then put into the car trunk?
CASAREZ: There was a computer search for the word "shovel" done in March, March of 2008, three months before she asked for the shovel.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Came around this corner and went back. She saw George Anthony holding Caylee in his arms.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I would have known something happened to Caylee, we wouldn`t be here today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will hear stories about a family that is incredibly dysfunctional. Casey was raised to lie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was very vocal child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are what we are because of who brought us into this world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caylee did not drown in the pool, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your mother will never forgive you and you will go to jail for child neglect for the rest of your freaking life. All you have to do is follow the duct tape and it will point to you who put Caylee`s remains where they ultimately ended up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Today the state sets the scene for the days and weeks following little Caylee`s disappearance. You`re seeing exclusive video we obtained of little Caylee`s second birthday. It was a pool party at George and Cindy`s home.
Somebody singing to Caylee, serenading her for her birthday. This is to the mom in the white t-shirt. This is a porch right next to the above ground pool.
The pool the defense claimed the life of little Caylee. The state says, no, she was murdered. We are taking your calls, out to Diane nah in Washington. Hi, Diana.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (via telephone): Hi. My question is, if, like her attorney says it was an accidental drowning and she should have called 911, would there have been an autopsy performed right away and that would have told, you know did she accidentally drown?
Is that why she`s going to all these elaborate lies and did all that because she didn`t want to see -- have anybody else see what else might have been going on with that child. here was she all the other days she wasn`t with that made-up nanny, who had her and where was she and what was going on with her?
GRACE: I think, Diana, that the babysitter was actually homemade chloroform. I`ve got to tell you something, Diana. I thought I had a good knowledge of the case, but yesterday when the state started with their opening statements and they outlined everything, I was stunned at the elaborate lies tot mom told her mother.
Because Cindy kept going where`s Caylee, when am I going to see Caylee? First, she said she was at a friend`s house then she said the nanny had to go into the hospital and she had to drive to Jacksonville. And then she said they were staying with the friends in Jacksonville.
Then she said she had to go out of town for Universal and they were staying in a hotel. I mean, the lies just got bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger until finally Cindy Anthony would not be denied her granddaughter any longer and went looking for tot mom, and that`s when it all hit the fan.
As to the autopsy, yes, you`re right. If the body had been obtained immediately, there would have been an autopsy. I guarantee you there`s no way that George Anthony would not have tried to revive Caylee, would not have called paramedics, 911. From what I can gather, Caylee is the love of his life. No doubt in my mind.
I want to go out to Ellie Jostad. On the stand today also we see Brian Burner. What struck me about the neighbor`s testimony, he said he lived there for years in their neighborhood and never once in all this time had tot mom ever borrowed anything, that he noticed the week of the 16th, Caylee last seen alive on the 16th, that tot mom comes over twice during that week, I believe he said, both when her parents were gone to work.
She comes back home. Her parents think she`s somewhere else. She backs into the garage. He had never seen her back in the garage before. She always parked in the driveway. She backs into the garage, comes, gets the shovel, leaves, goes back in the garage. Then later it becomes a question in his mind, was she wearing the same thing when she returned the shovel that she was wearing when she borrowed the shovel?
He cannot say that she was. What does this mean to you and why are these dates so significant, Ellie Jostad?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Well, Nancy, this is right after Caylee is last seen alive and it`s before anybody knows that she`s missing. The big question has always been how, if she`s guilty, did Casey Anthony dispose of the body?
The shovel seems like a key part of it. He says she came over, she borrowed the shovel, she said it was to dig up these roots, these bamboo shuts in the back yard that hurt little Caylee`s feet when she walked around.
He said she had the shovel for about an hour and returned it. Nancy, they tested the shovel, they didn`t find any DNA evidence. They found a hair, but it didn`t appear to be related to this case at all. It`s unclear what role that shovel played.
GRACE: And, also, to Robyn Walensky, WDBO, we now believe there`s a very strong possibility tot mom will have to take a stand. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey was raised to lie. This child at 8 years old learned to lie immediately. She could be 13 years old, have her father`s penis in her mouth and then go to school and play with the other kids as if nothing ever happened.
Nothing`s wrong. That will help you understand why no one knew that her child was dead. That`s the most important thing you must keep in the back of your mind, is that sex abuse does things to us. It changes you.
As soon as Casey came around this corner and went back, she saw George Anthony holding Caylee in his arms. She immediately grabbed Caylee and began to cry and cry and cry. And shortly thereafter, George began to yell at her. Look what you`ve done! Your mother will never forgive you, and you will go to jail --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Robyn Walensky, let me get this straight. The theory is she was in denial because she was molested as a child and, therefore, she left her 2- year-old alone with George Anthony and, therefore, all these string of witnesses we saw in court today are to testify to her denial? She never even mentioned Caylee`s existence.
ROBYN WALENSKY: Nancy, in a million years, any woman -- you know this -- who is sexually abused or even is suspicious of an older man in some kind of way, if a guy looks at you the wrong way, in a million years, are you going to leave your child with that person if that`s true? That is just against the laws of human nature. GRACE: Weigh in, joining us, Caryn Stark, psychologist out of New York. What do you make of it, Caryn?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Nancy, let`s look at this. First of all, there is absolutely no causation between sexual molestation and then somebody losing affect or not being able to grieve or being a poor mother or being able to tell lies.
I`ve never seen a study that says anything like that. And then let`s look at the fact that here is a mother, her mother, Casey`s mother knowing that supposedly her husband killed this little girl or she accidentally drown her or whatever happened, and yet she waits all that time and reports it.
And we have Casey herself telling lie after lie after lie, and then she doesn`t bring up any of this stuff about her father, that her father is really at fault. She`s talking about nannies. This is a classic case of somebody who has an antisocial personality and is a narcissist.
She does body contests with her daughter missing. She`s desensitized. It has nothing to do with sexual molestation. It makes no sense.
GRACE: We are live camped outside the Orlando Courthouse bringing you the latest as the trial of tot mom goes on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caylee would almost go swimming every day. She would go as frequently as I know that Cindy would take her or Cee Cee would take her. I rarely got into the pool unless Cindy and I were there together.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said it was an accident that snowballed out of control.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You testified today that Caylee did not drown in the pool, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s correct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know my mom will never forgive me. I`m never going to forgive myself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re more afraid of your mom`s reaction than you are if you ever see your daughter again?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I`m absolutely petrified.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Let`s see that scuffle outside the courthouse, Liz, just today, defense attorney, lead attorney Jose Baez in a scuffle going into the courthouse. What happened Jean Casarez?
JEAN CASAREZ: Well, apparently the cameras got in the way and there was tripping involved. It was not pretty. It was not a scuffle. But Nancy, one time I was in an area like that and a cameraman knocked my head.
He tried to and it could have been really serious. So they don`t want people to shoot in particular areas. I think the cameras were where they were not supposed to be.
GRACE: Robyn Walensky, what else happened? What was your take?
WALENSKY: This was outside, Nancy, right at the ramp where you`re coming in, where everybody walks in, in the morning. As I understand it, there was some pushing and shoving and Cheney Mason apparently made the remark, you can`t hit me.
You know, I`m an older person that could be battery or something along those lines. This is just the typical stuff that happens when you have a ton of press and the defense trying to get in and do their job. This is nothing new.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Alexandra in North Carolina. Hi, Alexandra, what`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (via telephone): Hi, Nancy. I love your show. Your twins are beautiful.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is when Caylee was missing and the meter reader found her body, the police said they searched that area but because of the high flooding, that`s why they hadn`t found it previously.
Is there a way since the weather was so bad and there was flooding that they can go back and look at the weather to see if the weather was even nice enough for Caylee to have been in a pool that day?
Apparently it was raining so bad that it was flooding. I don`t foresee the weather being good enough for Caylee to have even been in a pool.
GRACE: As a matter of fact, that`s a great question. We`re looking it up for you right now. Jean, that would be the weather in the Orlando area on June 16, three years ago, correct?
CASAREZ: That`s right. You know what I remember, Nancy? The prosecution is going to have meteorological experts to take the stands, to talk about the conditions that day, that year, that summer.
GRACE: Out to Patti Wood, body language expert joining us tonight out of Atlanta. What do you make of tot mom crying at various stages? It always seems to be when the testimony or the comments are about her.
PATTI WOOD, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Yes. That goes back to what we`ve been talking about and what you heard about the narcissism. Also, if you notice today in court, how she went right for the carotid artery, the hot under- the-collar motions, when her friends were talking about her partying and being happy wild her child was missing. That really, really was upsetting and making her need to comfort in that particular part of testimony.
GRACE: To Dr. Stanton Kessler, former medical examiner, forensic pathologist joining us out of Columbia. Doctor, explain to me how the plant growth around Caylee`s remains are going to be -- is going to be significant in this case?
DR. STANTON KESSLER, FORMER MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, it may be. There are not many people that do it. There are some forensic botanists we used at Harvard who could actually determine first what the plant is.
Then they can determine how many nodules there are, how long it`s been there and how long it`s been growing in a deceased`s body. We usually use this for remains we would bring up from the ground and would have plants wrapped around it, in the bones. We`ve used that before.
GRACE: Dr. Kessler, with the condition of Caylee`s remains, would there have been any way to determine whether she had drown in a swimming pool?
KESSLER: In a swimming pool -- most swimming pools has as filters, die tell may shows earth, little diatoms are in it. You can look, even as somebody whose bone basically. You can cut open the bone and you can scrape out the inner portion of the bone, suspend it.
Because when you inhale water, if it has diatoms in it, it go into your bones and lungs and other places. Lungs are the easiest place, but we don`t have lungs.
GRACE: OK. Back to Alexandra`s question. Ellie Jostad got this for me, June 15, 2008, 82 degrees, no rain. June 16th, 2008, 81 degrees, 0.18 inch of rain. So it did rain. Their theory is she got into the pool in the early morning hours. To Michelle in Missouri. Hi, Michelle, what`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (via telephone): Hi. My question is how can the people, the so-called scientists or therapists, say that she can move on and act like everything is normal after technically killing her child and just leaving her, saying she was molested is the cause of that. Million offense people get molested every day and they don`t go off killing their children and forget anti it.
GRACE: You know what? In my mind it would have made her treasure Caylee even more if that claim had been true about George. I do not believe it is. Caryn Stark, what`s your response to Michelle in Missouri?
STARK: You`re absolutely right, Nancy. It would have made her treasure her even more you would think. And how would that prevent her from being somebody who could grieve and have normal feelings and how could her father and brother have prevented her from attaching?
That`s what mothers do, attaching to their child. We don`t get any feeling of attachment here because no matter what she thought happened to her daughter, she`s just having a wonderful time, not missing her at all.
GRACE: You know, Caryn, I`m going to ask you another question as you watch this video, can I please not see the pushup bra and mini skirt for one minute?
I want to look at the video of Caylee, the exclusive video we obtained of her on her second birthday. Thanks, Liz. Caryn Stark, talking, as you watch this, talking about wanting to -- treasuring her even more if she had been molested as a child.
I was just thinking, my parents worked so hard, were working 24/7. My father working a night shift, just trying to put food on the table and send us to school, and we didn`t get to go on a lot of elaborate vacations.
I was so thrilled at the thought that I could take my twins to Disney, which I never got to do. All the things that I didn`t get to do, I remember I didn`t get to have a Tutu in ballet. I had a leotard. I ran out and got Lucy -- she`s got to have four.
I`m just thinking and projecting, if she were molested, she would never have left Caylee alone with George or Lee. She would never have allowed her to be in the pool alone. None of this ever. Because she would be trying to protect Caylee against everything, Caryn Stark.
STARK: Well, you know, Nancy, that part I have to say is debatable really because in fact sometimes when people are molested, just as when they are abused, they identify with their abuser, which means that they don`t know better than to leave them.
And it doesn`t make sense. But the other part that you`re talking about, you know, being closer to her daughter and embracing her as a result of this, you know, not lying, all that is the part that really counts.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will hear stories about a family that is incredibly dysfunctional. Casey was raised to lie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was a very vocal child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Casey came home and told her family that she was pregnant --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said, no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Extremely excited. Extremely excited.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live outside of the Orlando Courthouse bringing you the latest in the murder one trial against Casey Anthony, tot mom, in the murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee.
A parade of friends, lovers and roommates take the stand today, and a neighbor. To Thomas Luka, a former attorney for Lee Anthony. What more is the family going to endure by the time this is over? Who else is tot mom going to drag down with her, Thomas?
THOMAS LUKA, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR LEE ANTHONY: Well, we`ll have to see, Nancy. I think, though, probably the most damaging to this family is going to be when Casey herself takes the stand, and is going to have to in detail go through each and every one of these allegations that Jose Baez made yesterday in court.
GRACE: Everyone, we will be back in the courtroom first thing in the morning to bring you the very latest. This is a week of National Missing Children. And we are here, nearly three years to the date, to cover the murder trial and seek justice for Caylee.
Let`s stop and remember Marine Private First Class Steven Freund, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, killed Iraq. Awarded bronze star. Iraq campaign medal. Global war on terrorism, global war on terrorism medal.
Loved hunting, fishing, music, movies. Great sense of humor and kind heart. Leaves behind father Steven, aunt Donna, and uncle Bill. Grandparents Rosemary and Richard. Aunt Jane, Uncle Bill, Aunt Jana. Cousins Mandy, Bill, Jason, Matt, and Justin. Steven Freund, American hero.
Thanks to our guests and especially to you for being with us. And, again, this is National Missing Children`s week. Every year in America, over 2,000 children go missing each day. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children urging parents to take 25 minutes to just talk to your children about safety. Log on to take25.org for information.
Everyone, we will be here live at the Orlando Courthouse in court all day long to bring you the latest in justice for Caylee. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern and until then, good night, friend.
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