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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Casey Trial: Daughter vs. Dad?
Aired May 27, 2011 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Casey Anthony mistrial madness.
JOSE BAEZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We would at this time renew our motion for a mistrial, based on the evidence that the state has presented.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jose Baez blasts the prosecution, calling their questioning attempted character assassination and asking for a mistrial. What? I`ll tell you what the judge had to say about that.
Plus, the fiancee of Casey`s brother Lee melts down on the stand.
MALLORY PARKER, LEE ANTHONY`S FIANCEE: Casey and Caylee had a very, very special bond.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Plus, another famous case involving a little girl who just vanished. Haleigh Cummings. The last person to see her alive now speaking out and breaking down behind bars. Misty Croslin doing time for drug trafficking. Is she finally ready to crack?
MISTY CROSLIN, FORMER WIFE OF HALEIGH`S FATHER: I didn`t notice about Haleigh until I seen the back door open and then she was gone.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`ll hear what Misty says now, and you`ll be shocked by her new look.
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: How would you describe to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury the way Caylee loved her mother?
PARKER: It was amazing. But -- excuse me. Casey and Caylee had a very, very special bond.
BAEZ: And did it appear genuine to you?
PARKER: It did.
BAEZ: And the best way that you can describe their relationship would be amazing?
PARKER: Amazing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, more dramatic testimony in the Casey Anthony murder trial. This morning`s prosecution witness appears to have hit a home run for the defense.
The fiancee of Casey`s brother Lee and Casey herself both sobbed as the fiancee gushed about the, quote, "amazing relationship between Casey and Caylee." This on the heels of Casey`s defense accusing Lee of trying to molest Casey. It`s enough to make your head spin.
As for Lee, he was at the courthouse today at the very side of his fiancee, the witness. Lee is on the witness list for both the defense and the prosecution. And tonight there is a huge question: what will Casey`s brother Lee say once he is called to the stand?
Will Lee, right there, have to respond to what Casey`s ex-boyfriend said just yesterday? That ex-boyfriend yesterday, Tony Lazzaro, told the judge that Casey told him Lee tried to feel her breasts. That bombshell was dropped after the jury had gone home. They didn`t hear it, because it`s considered hearsay.
So if Casey wants to convince the jury she was sexually molested by her father and brother, will she have to take the stand herself in order to make that argument effectively? Will there ever be justice for little Caylee?
Straight out to, well, our expert panel. Just an incredible bunch of people assembled here today to analyze this case. I want to start with Wendy Murphy, former prosecutor.
I was actually extremely shocked that the fiancee of Lee was so gushing and glowing in her appraisal of Casey`s maternal abilities, given that Casey has accused Lee of trying to fondle her breasts, and this is man this witness is going to marry.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I don`t even know how to analyze these emotions. Frankly, I think they`re largely drama. I`m sure she has some strong feelings for Lee and for Casey. I`m sure she has strong feelings for Caylee.
You just can`t really draw inferences from these kinds of gushing outbursts, because you don`t know where they`re coming from. And this is a murder trial of a beloved child. I`m sure that there were things that Casey did with Caylee that legitimately led reasonable people to believe that they had a wonderful relationship. It has nothing to do with the evidence that demonstrates her involvement in her child`s death.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, is the prosecution doing enough? I`m going to get some examples in a moment. Mike Brooks, I don`t know if the prosecution is doing enough to paint the Casey that we all have come to know and not love.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, you know, Jane, I`ve been saying we talk about -- all the witnesses have been talking about, "Well, Casey on this occasion was acting normal. She was acting normal at this party." What is normal with Casey Anthony? We don`t know. We don`t have a baseline.
Most of the witnesses under cross by Mr. Baez have said, when asked about, you know, Caylee and Casey, yes, she seemed to be a loving mother. But, you know, we`ve seen loving mothers kill their children before, Jane. So is -- what is normal with Casey Anthony? Nobody knows.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the fiancee of Casey`s brother, again, talked on the stand about Casey in truly glowing terms. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: Did Caylee ever go without food as far as you know?
PARKER: No.
BAEZ: Did she ever appear neglected to you?
PARKER: No.
BAEZ: Did you ever see Casey strike or torture or punish Caylee in any harmful way?
PARKER: No, sir.
BAEZ: And the best way that you can describe your relationship would be amazing?
PARKER: Amazing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. She was a prosecution witness, but this fiancee of Lee hit it out of the park for the defense, gushing about the woman who accused her fiance of being a molester.
Now again, my question: is the prosecution dropping the ball here? Why aren`t they revealing Casey`s dark side? Why aren`t they playing Casey`s crude phone calls, like this one, which we`re playing now?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: Hey.
CASEY ANTHONY, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: Hey, can you give me Tony`s number?
L. ANTHONY: I -- I can do that. I don`t know what real good it`s going to do you at this point.
CASEY ANTHONY: Well, I`d like to talk to him anyway.
L. ANTHONY: OK. Because called to my mother and it -- it`s a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) waste. Oh, by the way, I don`t want any of you coming up here when I have my -- my first hearing for bond and everything else. Like don`t even (EXPLETIVE DELETED) waste your time coming up here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bounty hunter, Leonard Padilla, you were in the Anthony home. You got up close and personal with Casey Anthony. Is the person that the jury is hearing about the same person that you met and witnessed up close and personal?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: There`s definitely two Caseys. And when she was with my associate Tracy, away from the rest of us, she was definitely a person that was not like the one that you just heard on that telephone call or like when she told me to get out of her house.
She`s got two different sides to her and as -- like I say, my associate Tracy said many times, she nicknamed her "the cruise director," because she was always like, "Let`s go have fun." And they were always doing something in that part of the house. And Tracy -- and it had nothing to do with the attitude that she just personified in that phone call or some of the other phone calls that you`ve heard over the years.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So quick question, Leonard, do you think the prosecution is being effective in how they`re painting a portrait of Casey? Or are they not going for the jugular enough?
PADILLA: You know...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You have to produce it the way you produce -- produce a show. You have all these elements.
PADILLA: Here`s the...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you`ve got to paint a portrait of somebody. They`re showing -- I`ll give you an example. They are showing actual video, OK. The prosecution showed the jury a series of security camera videos from retail stores that Casey visited in early July 2008.
For example, on the tenth she hit two Target stores or "tar-jay" as I like to say. She didn`t buy a thing for Caylee. She scored a slew of stuff for herself. And remember, she`s buying all this using stolen checks, checks she stole from her friend Amy Huizenga. She`s buying beer, bras, camisoles, sunglasses, blouses, and, of course, the infamous blue hoody that she wore when she was arrested. OK?
My question, Sunny Hostin, former federal prosecutor, is the way the prosecution is laying this out, does it have the oomph that it needs to have so that the jury can connect the dots and say, "Oh, my gosh. She`s admitted her daughter is dead one way or another, and she`s out shopping." Are they going to get it in the way the prosecutor`s presenting it?
SUNNY HOSTIN, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": I don`t think so. And I`m with you on this, Jane. I mean, for the jury to convict her of intentionally murdering her little girl, they have to believe that she`s a monster. They have to believe that she`s a sociopath capable of offing her child. We`re talking about a mother killing a toddler.
But every single witness that has gotten on the witness stand has said they had a loving relationship. This last witness, Mallory Parker, an amazing relationship. Just a special relationship, a loving, loving relationship.
What mother that loves her child that much could just kill her and go on business as usual, unless indeed she is painted by the prosecution as a cold-blooded murderer? I am not seeing that picture yet, and I think that`s going to be very, very confusing for this jury. Unless the prosecution does this, they are not going to get a conviction.
PADILLA: I don`t agree with that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ve also got to say this. Hold on a second. I`ve got to say that the prosecution seems to be going on sort of an old game plan. The defense in its opening statement said, "Oh, we`re going to admit now there was no kidnapping. She died an accidental death, and because she was molested, allegedly, she covered it up."
But the prosecution is still asking everybody, "Well, did she ever say her child was kidnapped?"
"No, she never did." Well, yes, because the defense has already explained that away. Why are they still asking that question?
HOSTIN: And I completely agree with you.
MURPHY: I think that -- let me just answer that for one second here. First of all, I thought Jose Baez`s opening was like a "Saturday Night Live" skit. It was so ridiculous, so preposterous. What he promised will never come true. And a jury is going to hold that against him.
HOSTIN: That`s wrong. It was an excellent opening.
MURPHY: I don`t believe -- Sunny, it was ridiculous. The prosecutors were laughing for good reason. But I want to say this...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They were laughing because -- listen.
MURPHY: It was stupid. It was a stupid opening. It made no sense. It was ridiculous. It was a "Saturday Night Live" skit.
But my point is that you don`t have to prove that she`s a monster...
HOSTIN: You`re wrong.
MURPHY: ... to demonstrate her involvement in this case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
MURPHY: That`s not their theory, that she was a monster. That is not what they`re going on in this case.
HOSTIN: This is an intentional murder case, Wendy. This is an intentional murder...
(CROSSTALK)
MURPHY: You don`t have to be a murderer to...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Guess what, guys, we`re just getting started. We`re going to continue this debate on the other side.
Day four, Casey Anthony murder trial. Nancy Grace all over it. And she has the very latest from Orlando at the top of the hour, so we`re taking you right through. Stay right there.
Misty Croslin, we`re also talking about how she has broken down and speaking out about Haleigh Cummings. Remember that case? OK? Is Misty about to crack?
But for most of the hour we are focusing on Casey Anthony and this extraordinary day in court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
L. ANTHONY: CMA, I miss you. I love you. CMA, I am so proud of you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: Did Caylee ever go without food as far as you know?
PARKER: No.
BAEZ: Did she ever appear neglected to you?
PARKER: No.
BAEZ: Did you ever see Casey strike or torture or punish Caylee in any harmful way?
PARKER: No, sir.
BAEZ: And the best way that you can describe your relationship would be amazing?
PARKER: Amazing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight, a bombshell dropped by a prosecution witness. Lee Anthony`s fiancee tells the jury Casey and Caylee had an amazing relationship. Now, this appears to be a major setback for the prosecution. So far they`ve not portrayed Casey as a horrible mother, never mind a murderer.
"True Crime" star Aphrodite Jones, you were in the courtroom. What was the jury`s reaction to this amazing testimony by the fiancee of Casey`s brother Lee, and she`s accused Lee of trying to fondle her breasts?
APHRODITE JONES, HOST, "TRUE CRIME" (via phone): Well, OK, Casey -- when this girl, this partner was on the stand, I have to tell you, the jury looked like they were about to break down, because she herself broke down on the stand and was crying, had a mini meltdown, Mallory Parker on the stand talking about the very special bond between Caylee and her mom. And Casey was, you know, holding back tears. It was -- it was highly emotional.
And for the first time, I really feel the jury had sincere, genuine sympathy for Casey Anthony. That was my take, sitting there watching that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh. Now, of course, again, this is the fiancee of the brother, Lee. Casey has accused her brother, Lee, of trying to grab her breasts. So what kind of witness will Casey`s brother, Lee, make in light of what just happened there and in light of what Jose said about him during his opening statement? Let`s check that out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: Everyone was aware that they hid this beautiful child like a flower in the attic. And you`ll hear evidence that Casey has a brother. And he, too, wanted to follow in his father`s footsteps, and on certain occasions when he was a teenager, he attempted to also touch his sister, although it didn`t go as far.
It got so bad that the FBI did a paternity test to see if he was Caylee`s father. And when he was confronted with this information, he didn`t deny it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Lee was outside court today. You see him right there, outside court with his fiancee. Wendy Murphy, my head is spinning. This is about the nastiest thing you could say about someone.
MURPHY: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Basically, they`re implying with this paternity test issue that -- you do the math. Why is the fiancee then coming on the stand and being so complimentary to the person who is basically, it appears, trying to destroy her fiancee`s life?
MURPHY: Well, look, she may care about Lee, and Lee may care about Casey. But it`s irrelevant. All this crying is nonsense, irrelevant, distraction. Dog and pony show. Call it whatever you will.
What Baez does that I think is smart for the defense but it makes me sick is he`s using this sexual abuse history to create sympathy for a woman who doesn`t have any other opportunities to gain sympathy for anybody in this trial.
And he`s doing what I read about in my book, called the cross-finger- pointing problem. He`s making monsters out of people in the same family. Maybe from that the jury will say, well, maybe George did it. Maybe Lee. Maybe -- you know, if you have people from the same family, both reviled by the jury, and the jury thinks maybe either George or Casey could have done it, because they`re both disgusting...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK.
MURPHY: ... they`re built in reasonable doubt for each other. That`s a critical defense strategy in this case. It worked for the Ramseys. It may as well work here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Whoa! In October 2008, Casey stuck to her story when she spoke to cops. Why aren`t they playing this? Check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
C. ANTHONY: I as a mom, I know in my gut. There`s feelings as a parent. You know certain things about your child. You can feel that connection. And I still have that feeling, that presence. I know that she`s alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Brooks, why aren`t they playing sound bites like that, where she`s saying, "I know in my heart she`s alive," when now the defense is saying, "Hey, she was dead"?
(CROSSTALK)
BROOKS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), Jane. We`re still very, very early in this -- in this trial. So we don`t know what`s going to be played, what`s not going to be played.
But they`re just -- you said the other day, they`re kind of plodding along. I agreed with you until some of the witnesses we saw today. And one of them was the guy from the tow yard. Best...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: More on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: We would at this time renew our motion for a mistrial. So far the state has put on a case solely dealing with the bad character of my client, or the attempted character assassination of her past conducts, boyfriends, people she slept with, things that have exactly nothing to do with the crimes charged.
BELVIN PERRY, JUDGE: Mr. Baez, how many times have you asked on cross-examination of witnesses whether or not Miss Anthony was a, quote, "good mother," unquote?
BAEZ: Many times.
PERRY: The motion for mistrial will be denied. Anything else?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you heard it right. At 8:39 this morning, minutes before the jury came in, Jose asked for a mistrial. His argument: that the prosecution is going after Casey and basically doing character assassination. What?
Sunny Hostin, former federal prosecutor, I really have been saying that I think that they`re painting a very loving picture in court of this woman, much more loving than the person that we`ve come to know and not love so much: the partier, the one who is cashing bad checks, the one doing who is out doing hot body contests and getting tattoos. And yet he`s asking for a mistrial based on character assassination?
HOSTIN: He certainly is just trying to preserve his record on appeal, because I agree with you. The defense has done a wonderful job of neutralizing the prosecution`s case in that they are bringing up over and over again, through the prosecution`s witness, that Casey Anthony was a good mother.
And I`ll say it again: the prosecution will lose this case if they don`t answer a motive question that the jury is going to have. The jury, in hearing all of this, about how wonderful Casey Anthony is, they`re going to go back into that jury room and they`re going to say, how could a mother who loved her child so much kill her? What is the motive? And if they don`t have an answer to that question quickly, the defense`s neutralization strategy is going to work.
The prosecution must -- must -- start doing something to combat that theory, because it`s an excellent theory. The point the finger theory is an excellent theory. And the sexual abuse theory is a great defense theory. The bottom line is, reasonable doubt is living all over this case. And the defense only needs one juror to believe it, just one.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wendy Murphy, you heard Mike Brooks say, it`s just the beginning of the case, and it`s absolutely true.
MURPHY: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But it`s kind of like when you`re doing a new show. You don`t save during your best sound bites or video comments to the very end, because half the time you...
MURPHY: That`s not true. No, that`s not true.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... so you put it right up front. And I think that impressions are formed early. So I`m wondering, all these -- we have all these incriminating videotapes of her lying. Why doesn`t the prosecution play them now?
MURPHY: Well, primacy of recency (ph). You dump the nonsense in the middle. And I don`t think we`re quite in the middle. But we`re nowhere near an important stage in the case. I don`t think the jury cares one whit that this witness was crying, except that they might feel bad for her and bad for Caylee. It doesn`t matter. We`ve got a long way to go. Mike`s right.
But here`s the thing: we don`t know yet what the prosecution is going to tell the jury through other witnesses about the most important question, which is why was Casey delivering Caylee to that Sawgrass Apartment after all?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to answer that question on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey Anthony mistrial madness.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: We would at this time renew our motion for a mistrial based on the evidence that the state has presented.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jose Baez blasts the prosecution, calling their questioning attempted character assassination and asking for a mistrial. What? I`ll tell you what the judge had to say about that.
Plus, the fiancee of Casey`s brother Lee melts down on the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey and Caylee had a really special bond.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Plus, another famous case involving a little girl who just vanished -- Haleigh Cummings. The last person to see her alive speaking out and breaking down behind bars. Misty Croslin doing time for drug trafficking. Is she finally ready to crack?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MISTY CROSLIN, HALEIGH CUMMINGS` STEPMOTHER: I didn`t notice about Haleigh until I saw the back door opened and then I see that she`s gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`ll hear what Misty is saying now and you`ll be shocked by her new look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: Did Caylee ever go without food, as far as you know?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
BAEZ: Did she ever appear neglected to you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
BAEZ: Did you ever see Casey strike or torture or punish Caylee in any harmful way?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, sir.
BAEZ: And the best way that you can describe their relationship would be amazing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amazing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey Anthony on trial for murder, yet one of the prosecution`s very first witnesses today in a bombshell tells the jury the relationship between Casey and her daughter Caylee was amazing. She`s gushing. On the other hand, they did present testimony about Casey being proud of her ability to lie.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had told her friends that she couldn`t come pick them up to hang out with them because she was having car trouble or that she got a flat tire or something of that nature. And as she hung up, she said she kind of threw the phone down on the dashboard and just said, "Oh, my God, I`m such a good liar."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Such a good --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Liar.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to start out by asking Sunny Hostin why it is that the judge told everybody you cannot have any outburst, you cannot -- so George when he`s being accused of molestation has to sit there like this. But Casey, as you just saw there, can shake her head every time anybody says anything that is unfavorable and do a whole little acting job.
SUNNY HOSTIN, LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR, "IN SESSION": Well, that ruling about the outburst or that instruction rather came in when it was determined that George and Cindy Anthony would be allowed to sit in the courtroom during all the testimony. Let`s face it, these are star witnesses yet they are going to be allowed to hear opening statements, they are going to be allowed to hear every single witness`s testimony. And so I think that is really what Judge Perry wanted to contain, wanted to make sure that they comported themselves in a way in the courtroom so as not to sway this jury.
I think the defendant certainly has made a lot of gestures. I don`t know if those gestures are going to help her, quite frankly. The "no" sort of thing and even the crying may not help her. A lot of statistics and reports that have been done about defendants crying don`t bode well for defendants. Usually jurors think that they are either lying or that they are being defiant or denying. So I think you can`t read too much into what Casey`s doing?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you bring me to my big issue.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Will ultimately Casey have to not just shake her head but take the stand and testify? We asked our ISSUES Facebook audience whether Casey has to take the stand to get an acquittal, 84 percent -- 84 percent said yes. Only 16 percent said no.
So I`m going to ask, Leonard Padilla, do you think if Casey does tell -- take the stand, she would be an effective witness or would she be destroyed by the prosecution on cross-examination?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: The prosecution will not destroy her. She`ll be as effective witness as any witness that you`ve ever seen on trial for her life. And one of the things that people keep forgetting --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Why?
PADILLA: Well, because she can lie like you`ve never seen anybody lie. We saw her lie about things that were just not necessary to be lied about while we were in that residence. She lied about things that were just absolutely no reason for it -- none. And she does it in a convincing manner.
She is insane to the point where she can say anything she wants and it`s believable if you want to believe it. She lies in a manner that is believable.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mike Brooks, are you concerned about that, that she could actually take the stand and just lie her way through this case?
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Absolutely. I mean she has before. And it`s going to come down to credibility if she does take the stand, who do the jurors believe more? Do they believe the other witnesses and then Casey? Because, you know, it was interesting today.
I thought Jose Baez took kind of a different turn today. He started talking about Casey`s world. And he said, "the world that Casey Anthony lived in" and basically saying that she lives in a fantasy world. But who is to believe her? Is she telling the truth now about molestation, about anything at all? We`ll never know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. She is a very effective liar.
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Are you kidding me.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No. No. Wendy, weigh in.
MURPHY: Do you think the prosecution is in Grade 2? They`re going to stand up and just let her lie and not challenge her with every single bit of evidence? She`s not going to be able to explain away a lot of stuff. Look, I`d love to get her on the stand. She would be lunch meat in five minutes and I don`t even know all the case evidence yet.
But I`ll tell you this, I have to ask her and all these crazy people who think she was such a wonderful mother, I`d ask them one question. Do you think it`s a wonderfully motherly thing to do that on May 30th while she was in bed with her boyfriend and her daughter she woke up in the middle of the night and delivered her child some place? Where did she bring her? She told people she brought her because she woke up the next morning in Ricardo`s bed and Caylee was gone and Ricardo said, "Where is your daughter?" And she said, "I brought her to my mother. My mother was worried about her." And Cindy said, "Oh, no, you didn`t."
So when Casey is asked the question, to whom did you deliver your child in the middle of the night? What do you think the little liar is going to say? You know where she brought her. She brought her to the same apartment where she delivered her for some reason --
(CROSSTALK)
PADILLA: -- alive.
MURPHY: She won`t survive one day. She won`t survive one minute.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`ve made your point. Listen, that`s why you`re a famous former prosecutor and we have you on the show, Wendy. But Mike, one at a time; what is your response to that?
BROOKS: I really think that if she does take the stand -- number one, she`s going to have to take the stand to prove these allegations that Jose Baez, these fantasies that he brought up in the opening statements. And if she does take the stand, Jeff Ashton will eat her alive.
Look at this presentation in the pre-trial hearing on December 11th, 2009, when he talked about those three pieces of tape. That was the first clue that we got of what the prosecution was going to say was the cause of death. Those three pieces of tape will eat her alive, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me say this. I guess what I fear, Sunny Hostin is that -- let`s assume for a second that George is not a child molester and that she made it up. I fear that she`s going to take the stand and you heard what Jose Baez said in opening statement, very graphic about a body part in 8-year-old Casey`s mouth. I have the feeling she could take the stand and just get super graphic -- super graphic about what her father allegedly did to her. And that makes me sick to my stomach, actually.
HOSTIN: Well, there`s no question that she has to take the stand. There`s no question. When I was a prosecutor, my boss said -- and I was known for giving these big hard-charging opening statements and my boss used to always tell me, "Sunny don`t write checks you can`t cash. You better make sure that that evidence is there to back you up."
And I say the same thing to Jose Baez. He went in there and he dropped a lot of bombshells. He`s got to shore it up. He`s got to prove it up so that he doesn`t lose the credibility with this jury when he asks them not to find her guilty.
The only way he does that, Jane is by putting her on the witness stand. I think she may do ok because who else was there when George Anthony allegedly -- allegedly sexually abused her? Who else was there --
MURPHY: She will never take the stand. This is preposterous.
(CROSSTALK)
HOSTIN: -- when George Anthony allegedly had her drowned baby in her hands? No one can cross-examine her on it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: One at a time. Wendy.
MURPHY: She will never take the stand because among other things, she had sex with half the guys on the witness list. There are good witnesses out there who say she was prostituting herself. Do you think that`s a good mother? Do you think she`s going to come across as a good mother explaining herself?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We don`t have any evidence of that.
(CROSSTALK)
HOSTIN: That`s not going to come in Wendy.
MURPHY: Yes, there was a witness -- look --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s not going to come in.
MURPHY: Guess what, that`s what witnesses have said about her.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold it. Time out.
Ok. Time for the big gavel. Ok, yes, that`s right -- drop the mikes.
I really didn`t understand why the prosecution didn`t go more in depth into her sexual relationship. She`s testifying that while she`s dating one guy and he`s out of town, she`s going to sleep at the home of her ex- boyfriend but they didn`t press too hard on that. And the child was sleeping in the bed.
All right. Look, I want to say one thing. The prosecution did score something, the guy in charge of the tow yard where Casey`s car was delivered on June 30th, 2008 testified this morning. And he said that on the fourth or the fifth day he gave it a cursory inspection. Let`s listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIMON BIRCH, TOW TRUCK DRIVER: As I was looking around the vehicle there was nothing really noticeable at all until I put my hand up against the glass to shield the sun and looked through the windows and at that point I did notice a fairly strong odor emanating from the vehicle. The instant flash in my mind was, oh, I know what that smells like.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ok. Leonard Padilla, ten seconds. He said that it smelled like decomposition in the back of the car. Slam dunk for the prosecution there.
PADILLA: And once you smell decomposition, you will never forget it. And any time it`s discussed, you`ll remember it. And here, let me tell you something else. That girl can tell a lie better than George can tell the truth and be more believable.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. That may be the quote of the week. Thank you fantastic panel.
Up next, Haleigh and Misty -- yes, remember them?
Nancy Grace with the very latest on the Casey Anthony trial from Orlando at the top of the hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
RONALD CUMMINGS, FATHER OF HALEIGH CUMMINGS: Hello?
911 OPERATOR: Ok sir, let me talk to your wife. Let me get some information from her.
CUMMINGS: (INAUDIBLE).
911 OPERATOR: Can I talk to her?
CUMMINGS: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Ok.
CUMMINGS: How the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) do you let my daughter get stolen (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A groundbreaking new jailhouse interview with Misty Croslin. Misty is the last person to have sees little Haleigh Cummings before the 5-year-old girl mysteriously disappeared from her bed two years ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROSLIN: -- and she`s gone and that`s all I know, is when I woke up - - when I went to sleep she was there and then when I woke up she was gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Misty was babysitting Ron`s two kids while he says he was at work. Prosecutors still think Misty is the key to solving this heartbreaking case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROSLIN: I`m not the key. I think if they move on to somebody else that there would be more answers. They are stuck on me and I don`t have the answers to give to them; that`s why they have not got nowhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Boy has she changed. She`s sitting in jail serving a 25-year sentence for drug trafficking but she says they offered to reduce her charges if she told them what really happened to little Haleigh. Police even dragged her out to a river to get her to crack but no go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROSLIN: They showed me bones -- animal bones telling me it was Haleigh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s what you were doing on the dock?
CROSLIN: Yes. They showed me animal bones telling me this was her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look at this new version of Misty. She`s come a long way from the super skinny 17-year-old on drugs.
Joining us tonight in an ISSUES exclusive: the attorney for Ronald Cummings, Haleigh`s father; Terry Shoemaker, thank you so much for joining us tonight, sir. What is your reaction to Misty coming out and maintaining she still has absolutely no idea what happened to little Haleigh?
TERRY SHOEMAKER, ATTORNEY FOR RONALD CUMMINGS: Well, it`s a little shocking and everything that she was saying during the interview, it seems a lot of stories have changed once again. You know, I`ve talked to law enforcement recently and every time I talked to them they say the exact same thing. That if she would come forward and let them know what`s going on or what took place on that night, that they would be able to crack the case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, people say jail is a time to reflect. And guess what? It sounds like Misty has put a whole lot of time into thinking about her relationship with her ex, Ron.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROSLIN: He`s the one that got me into doing all of that stuff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drugs?
CROSLIN: Right. Before I got with him, I didn`t do that. I didn`t do none of that stuff. I feel like he used me the whole time we were together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, Terry, Misty says she wasn`t into drugs but claims your client, Ron, hooked her on them. Your response to that?
SHOEMAKER: Well, I said in the sentencing hearing where -- excuse me -- where Misty was sentenced to the 25 years and during the testimony that she gave, she admitted to using drugs prior to ever meeting Ronald. She admitted to, you know, having some sort of problem with drugs from a very young age. So I find that hard to believe that again, now she is coming out and blaming Ronald for everything that has gone wrong in her life.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Misty`s story to the police has essentially stayed the same but boy has her appearance over these two years radically changed.
Take a look. She was so skinny back when Haleigh first went missing. Sunken eyes and -- there`s her on the left. She looks like 12. Now her weight is -- well, obviously she`s put on some weight but I think overall she looks a little more wholesome than she did before, certainly when she was walking around dragging on a cigarette, Levi Page.
LEVI PAGE, HOST, "THE LEVI PAGE SHOW": You know, I really don`t give a crap what she looks like. A liar is a liar and she continues to lie. And I hate to agree with anything from someone who has represented Ronald Cummings but I agree with him.
I think that Misty knows what happened. She failed a polygraph. She failed a layer voice analysis. She`s extremely deceptive. She or Ronald refused to cooperate in this investigation.
And I think that Misty knows exactly what happened. She didn`t accept immunity because guess what -- she`s probably not covering for anyone. I had previously thought that this girl was covering for someone, but you know what, now I think that she`s the killer.
If she was not the killer, why didn`t she just come out and say, this is who did it. Got it -- she didn`t say that because she did it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let me ask you, Terry --
SHOEMAKE: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Misty Croslin says your client Ron owed money to people who supported his drug habit and that those people may have taken the child for ransom. Your reaction, briefly?
SHOEMAKER: I can say that I`ve sat in many interviews with Ronald and law enforcement and that topic came up and that was looked at by law enforcement. And every time they asked about it and they went and checked anything that Ronald had to say, it came back as not being true.
So that has been looked in by law enforcement and they`ve followed every lead that they have received thus far and all of it leads not to Ronald but to somebody else.
PAGE: Then why was Ronald not cooperating in the investigation per Gary Bowling? Major Gary Bowling said that Ronald refused to answer questions in the summer of --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, ok. I hear you. Now five seconds. Terry is he cooperative or not?
SHOEMAKER: He`s very cooperative.
PAGE: No.
SHOEMAKER: I can`t tell you how many times --
PAGE: That`s wrong.
SHOEMAN: -- I`ve sat in a room with Ronald and law enforcement.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Guess what, we`re going to stay on top of this. Terry, come back soon.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Take a look at those wild horses, terrified, tortured by government helicopters. The abuse of these majestic creatures continues in Nevada, despite the outcry from taxpayers.
The people have spoken. They say, "Hey, U.S. government, stop this torture." So why are these wild horses and burros (ph) still being forced to live in tiny pens? Take a look at it. Critics charge the U.S. government is siding with the cattle industry. It`s, some say, a whole debate over who`s going to have the grazing lands.
But the most outrageous part of this is that Nevada lawmakers recently proposed a bill to deny the horses the right to drink water. If passed, that bill would be a death sentence. Horses, like you and me, they need water to live. What kind of tortured logic, what kind of lack of empathy would cause anyone to say, let`s deprive these animals of water? The bill has caused an outpouring of outrage and support for the horses.
With me tonight, Lee Hall, legal director for Friends of Animals; Lee, what are you doing to try to help these poor horses that have no voice and are being terrified by these government helicopters?
LEE HALL, LEGAL DIRECTOR, FRIENDS OF ANIMALS: Well, Jane, in general, this is part -- what you`re seeing in Nevada is part of an assault that`s been going on since 1973. We`re talking about thousands, tens of thousands of horses being rounded up a year.
And we have had enough of it, obviously. We are going to take legal action, this year, dealing with particularly roundups of the type that you`re showing on the video. And we are going to demand that the government give back the land that they have taken away over the years from the mustangs of the west. They have taken away ten million acres from the mustangs of the west.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. We contacted the Nevada Bureau of Land Management, or the Bureau of Land Management in Nevada. They told us part of their job is to control overpopulation. And that currently, wild horses number over 38,000. Oh. Well, who says we`re only supposed to have 38,000 wild horses. You just heard how many acres they used to have. There used to be millions of them.
And what about my good friend, Madeleine Pickens, one of the richest women in America, the wife of oil mogul T. Boone Pickens, she bought 20,000 acres of land to create an eco sanction for these horses, but when she told the U.S. government her plans, they said, oh, we`re not that interested in letting you have the horses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MADELEINE PICKENS, WILD HORSES ACTIVIST: I said to them, let`s create this as an eco-sanctuary, and they turned around and said, guess what, we`re going to gather the horses from your land.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Lee Hall, we`ve got a deficit crisis. We`re trying to save money. The government, nevertheless, will not give these horses to somebody who says, hey, I`ll take care of them. You don`t have to have the taxpayers` paying for their roundup and holding them in pens. What`s wrong with Uncle Sam?
HALL: Moreover, Jane, the 1971 act that protects these animals, federal law that protects these animals directs and authorizes the Secretary of Interior, that`s Ken Salazar, to create and maintain sanctuaries on range lands, as long as they maintain a thriving, natural ecological balance on the lands that is what they are to do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So they`re not supposed to be rounding them up, they`re supposed to be taking care of the horses.
HALL: Exactly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re staying on top of this. We`re not going to --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These baby cows, less than a day old, are being taken away from their moms and brought to these facilities where they`re either grown out and returned to the dairy industry or just left to die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Innocent calves brutalized with hammers and picks, left to die. Horrendous acts of violence caught on tape by Mercy for Animals. And now warrants have been issued for several men who once worked at the ranch in Hart, Texas. In the past, the owner has said he didn`t know this was happening and then fired the men. He`s also facing a misdemeanor now.
Again, these individual who actually did the hitting have been fired. Kudos to Mercy for Animals for exposing these deplorable practices which are illegal and I applaud the district attorney for prosecuting this case. That, in itself, is a huge victory. Nancy Grace up next.
END
