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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Casey`s Mom Breaks Down on Stand
Aired May 31, 2011 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, explosive, gut- wrenching new testimony in the Casey Anthony trial. Casey`s mom, Cindy, breaks down in tears, convulsing in sobs on the witness stand.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that the doll that you had testified in your earlier testimony was in your car seat?
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: Yes, ma`am.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Plus the prosecution plays Cindy`s infamous 911 calls in open court. You will not believe her reaction.
CINDY ANTHONY (via phone): There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) car.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And prosecutors force Cindy to repeat some of her initial, damning statements.
CINDY ANTHONY: As I walked up to the car, I could smell the car. It smelled -- I said it smelled like something had died in the car.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`ll have the highlights of the mind-boggling testimony. You won`t believe your ears and eyes. And I`m taking your calls.
CINDY ANTHONY: I overheard her tell him that Caylee had been gone for 31 days and the nanny had taken her. I lost it. I just went in the room and started yelling at Casey. What do you mean she`s been gone? Why didn`t you tell me? I swore at her and hit the bed. I ran out and called the police again.
(via phone) I called a little bit ago, the deputy sheriff. I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month. Her mother finally admitted that she`s been missing. My daughter finally admitted that the baby-sitter stole her. I need to find her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (via phone): Your daughter admitted that the baby is where?
CINDY ANTHONY: She said she took her a month ago. My daughter has been looking for her. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today but I can`t find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself.
There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is the 3-year-old`s name?
CINDY ANTHONY: Caylee, C-A-Y-L-E-E, Anthony.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That poor woman. Tonight, Casey Anthony`s distraught mother, Cindy, convulsing in hysterics, doubling over as she testifies for the prosecution in her daughter`s murder trial.
For hours today, we watched the emotional torture of a woman who has been completely crushed. We learned how Cindy became aware of her daughter`s story that little Caylee was kidnapped by a baby-sitter nobody has ever seen 31 days earlier. Cindy Anthony called 911 three times on July 15, 2008.
Here are Cindy and Casey in court today listening to that crucial third, frantic 911 call. As the jury watches, mother and daughter relive that horrific, hellish moment, when the entire world finally found out that this precious little girl, Caylee, was missing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CINDY ANTHONY (via phone): My daughter finally admitted that the baby-sitter stole her. I need to find her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your daughter admitted that the baby is where?
CINDY ANTHONY: She said she took her a month ago. My daughter has been looking for her. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can`t find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself.
There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today ,and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. What is the 3-year-old`s name?
CINDY ANTHONY: Caylee, C-A-Y-L-E-E, Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caylee Anthony?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she white, black or Hispanic?
CINDY ANTHONY: She`s white.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How long has she been missing for?
CINDY ANTHONY: I have not seen her since the 7th of June.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is her date of birth?
CINDY ANTHONY: Eight -- 8-9, 2005. Casey says the nanny took her a month ago. She`s been missing for a month.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, I just -- I understand -- can you calm down for me for just a minute? I need to know what`s going on, OK? I`m going to try and...
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m sorry. I didn`t really (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Like I said, the emotional torture of a woman. Have you ever heard more explosive testimony or seen such a dramatic display on the witness stand? I can`t remember.
Poor Cindy practically collapses. She can barely walk without holding on as she leaves the stand after her morning of just unbelievable testimony.
Meantime, what about Casey? What`s been going through her head as her mom has been testifying for the prosecution? Did Casey expect mommy to lie for her?
Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
Straight out to Jean Casarez, correspondent with "In Session" on TruTV.
Jean, you were there inside the courtroom. There wasn`t a dry eye in our office today and me at home watching this. How about the jury, how did they react?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": Jane, it was raw, raw emotion from Cindy.
The jury, amazingly so, they had a transcript to follow, and they had their monitors. They were reading the transcript. They had to see what she was doing, but they focused in. And Jane, what it showed me, those 911 calls, especially No. 3, are critical to this jury, because they were intensively reading the transcript.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Aphrodite Jones, star of "True Crime," you were also in the courtroom, and you`ve got some new information about what happened when she asked for a break. Tell us what happened.
APHRODITE JONES, HOST, "TRUE CRIME": Well, first of all, let me just say that I was in the courtroom watching her. There were two members of the jury who were paying attention to Cindy crying and breaking down. And one was holding his hand over his head like this, over his mouth like that. Another woman had visibly shaking on her face, so I have a little bit of a different perception of what I was seeing from two of the jurors.
But when Cindy asked for the break and was absolutely -- she was trembling, had to be helped off the stand. She went to the ladies` room and was sobbing uncontrollably. And some of the people in the -- women in the ladies` room later told me -- two women told me -- she was sobbing so uncontrollably in there that she literally sounded like she was throwing up. Cindy Anthony was, like, gagging from the tears. And I think that`s why the break was so long. This poor woman was dragged through hell and back.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She sure has. I feel such compassion for her. Look at this poor woman, unbelievable.
Now, we listened to an hysterical, panicked Cindy on the phone with the 911 operator back when she found out that her daughter had supposedly been kidnapped by Zanny. Then we heard Casey get on the phone talking to the very same operator. The difference in their demeanor is absolutely jaw-dropping. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CINDY ANTHONY: They want to talk to you. Answer their questions.
CASEY ANTHONY, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: Hello.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Can you tell me what`s going on a little bit?
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m sorry?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you tell me a little bit what`s going on?
CASEY ANTHONY: My daughter has been missing for the last 31 days.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you know who has her?
CASEY ANTHONY: I know who has her. I`ve tried to contact her. I actually received a phone call today now from a number that is no longer in service. I did get to speak to my daughter for about a moment, about a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Did you guys call and report a vehicle stolen?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, my mom did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So there`s been a vehicle stolen, too?
CASEY ANTHONY: No, this was my vehicle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What vehicle was stolen?
CASEY ANTHONY: It`s a `90 Pontiac Sunfire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have deputies on the way to you right now for that. So now your 3-year-old daughter is missing, Caylee Anthony.
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: White female.
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, white female.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three years old, 8-9-2005 is her date of birth?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you last saw her a month ago?
CASEY ANTHONY: Thirty-one days. It`s been 31 days.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who has her? Do you have a name?
CASEY ANTHONY: Her name is Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who`s that, baby-sitter?
CASEY ANTHONY: She`s been my nanny for about a year and a half, almost two years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And why are you calling now? Why didn`t you call 31 days ago?
CASEY ANTHONY: I have been looking for her and have gone through other resources to try to find her, which was stupid.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, Casey sounds like she`s ordering out for delivery. She`s so blase. Prosecutor Stacey Honowitz, the contrast between Casey and Cindy, it speaks volumes. What do you think this is doing to the jury?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, I think the jury is going to get -- is actually getting a picture of how hold and calculating she really is. This is something that the prosecutor is going to hammer home during the closing argument.
You saw this tortured soul -- and that`s what she is; she`s a tortured soul, Cindy Anthony -- take the stand, practically go into convulsions. And you see Casey -- Casey on the phone 31 days, and ironically tells the police this is the day, the 31st day, where I actually got to speak to Caylee. And she`s -- she`s calm, and she`s cool, and she`s calculating. And this is really -- this was a stellar day for the prosecution.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It sure is. Leonard Padilla, you talked about two Caseys. Is this what you`re talking about?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: That`s correct. If you`ll notice another thing there about Casey, other people have baby-sitters. She`s got a nanny. Even when the police dispatcher says baby-sitter, she says, "No, nanny."
And the other thing is she uses words like "resources," which for a young lady of her educational means, you know, that`s a little eight- cylinder word that she`s throwing around there. She tries to be somebody she`s not when she`s in that other world.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Margie, Georgia, quick question or thought? Margie?
CALLER: I think they`re all barking up the wrong tree, because they are trying to say that the child drowned in the pool, but there`s all the evidence in the world that Casey was trying to live the sweet life, the beautiful life with all of her friends. And in order to do that, to keep her daughter quiet, she had to chloroform her to put her to sleep so she would stay asleep long enough for her to have her fun. I think she also...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you sound like one of the prosecutors.
PADILLA: She does.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And she`s saying that she probably overdosed on chloroform. And now we`re starting to see the prosecution`s case. I had been wondering where the heck is it? Well, it has arrived.
HLN`s coverage of the Casey Anthony trial continues on Nancy Grace. That`s tonight in less than an hour, and we are staying on it for this entire hour.
Everyone, sit tight. I want to hear what you have to say about it. Call me: 1-877-JVM-SAYS. And...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: Her favorite doll was in the car seat, like it was sitting where Caylee would have sat. Then I noticed Caylee`s backpack in the trunk of the car. I took Caylee`s doll out of the car, and I took the backpack out of the car. It just all smelled like the car, so I took it out and I went and got a Clorox wipe and wiped the face and the hands. And the body is soft, so it smelled pretty bad. So I went and got some Febreze, and I sprayed the doll.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cindy Anthony, star witness for the prosecution, at her own daughter`s murder trial. This poor woman can barely keep her composure. She loses her composure repeatedly as she talks about her beloved granddaughter`s baby doll and backpack, found in Casey`s car.
Cindy, devastated as she describes how the little doll was covered with the stench of the stinking car.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: As I walked up to the car, I could smell the car. I said it smelled like something had died in the car.
I sprayed Febreze all through the car, thinking that that might help the odor. I sprayed the front and the back. I used pretty much a whole can of Febreze.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The smell in the car, was that a smell that you recognized?
CINDY ANTHONY: The smell in the car was like something I had never -- it was pretty strong. I mean I used that expression, you know, "What died?" And at that point I never put, you know, anybody in the trunk of the car or in the car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean Casarez, correspondent from "In Session," she says what died? She repeats the phrase that prosecutors were really trying to get her to repeat. How important is that for prosecutors?
CASAREZ: It`s critical. And do you know what she said on cross examination? She said, quote, "It was the closest thing I could compare it to, was rotting flesh," because she had dealt with that in her nursing days.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Leonard Padilla, she does seem to be contradicting herself somewhat. She goes back and forth, first saying it smells very, very bad, then saying it smells like garbage, then saying it smells like rotting flesh. Do you feel that she is conflicted on the stand?
PADILLA: Yes, she is. And I`ll tell you, when we were back there, we were constantly having discussions. Now, this is just recently after we had bailed her daughter out, and there was all of these conflicting statements that she would make about, well, Jesse Grund was her boyfriend, and he really loved the child. And I wouldn`t put it past him to kidnap the child.
And then when they came out with the human decomposition in the trunk of the car, she spent quite a bit of time discussing it with us, like "It could have been something else. It didn`t have to be that."
And I told her, "Cindy, it could be a lot of things."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cindy? Cindy is saying this? You`re saying "she." Who was "she"?
PADILLA: Cindy. I`m sorry. Cindy.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
PADILLA: And I said, "Cindy, it could be a lot of things, but the death band on the hair that can only be yours or Casey`s or Caylee`s and you two are alive. That tells you that that child was dead in the trunk of that car." And human decomposition is not a mistake. I mean, if you talk to the people at the body farm, they`ll tell you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What`s your point about Cindy? What`s your point about Cindy?
PADILLA: She goes back and forth sometimes, protecting her daughter, not protecting her daughter. She wants to have the day -- day in court for Caylee, but she also doesn`t want to give up her daughter that`s still alive. And we saw that constantly, constantly, constantly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you`re seeing it in court today as well, Stacey Honowitz.
HONOWITZ: Yes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How does a prosecutor massage her? How does a prosecutor keep her in line to tell the story they want her to tell?
HONOWITZ: Well, first of all, she did give the story that prosecutors wanted her to tell. She had an excited utterance when she said, and that`s an exception to hearsay, basically. It basically says, you know, that is the freshest in her mind of what she was thinking, that it smelled like a dead body.
And certainly, I think a jury can probably understand that it is so conflicting for her. I mean, the dynamics in this case. Whenever you need to testify against a family member in any case, it`s devastating. But you have to couple it with her granddaughter is dead and her daughter is on trial for her life.
So the bottom line is I think a jury is smart enough to realize that it`s raw emotion. This is truly what happened. This is her belief, but at the same time she`s backpedaling a little bit because her daughter`s life is on the line. And that`s what we saw all through this, but now it`s reality.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well said. John in California, quick question or thought, John.
CALLER: Yes, I have a comment and a question, Jane. First off, my comment is I feel so sorry for the grandmother.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Me, too.
CALLER: I mean, I used to think of her like an iron maiden, but you know, after seeing her today, my heart goes out to her. And my question was what was the plea deal? Did they offer her a plea deal earlier, Casey? And what was it and why didn`t they take it? Because, you know, I think you`re...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Excellent question, and we`re going to answer it on the other side. We are just getting started.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: We had been in the pool for at least an hour, hour and a half. It was probably about 7 p.m., 7:30.
JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And I know you testified that you took the ladder down after you were done?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, I recall taking the ladder down.
BAEZ: Are you 100 percent certain of that?
CINDY ANTHONY: As certain as I can be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: On Saturday, Cindy testified for the prosecution that once she and little Caylee were done swimming in the family`s above-ground pool on June 15, the day before she vanished, that Cindy removed the ladder and put it away. So it was something she said she did consistently out of habit.
Jose Baez tried to get her to contradict herself today and she said she was as close as she could be to 100 percent sure that she removed that ladder the day before little Caylee vanished.
Jean Casarez, what`s the significance to this case?
CASAREZ: Well, obviously critical. But here`s what also was said today. She said when she got home on June 16, Monday -- that`s the critical day, Jane. That`s the timeline we want to keep following through. She said the gate was open to the backyard and that the ladder was on the pool.
But, Jane, George Anthony testified that, at 10:50 in the morning, 10:50 p.m. [SIC], Casey and Caylee left. They were gone. And he had to go to work by 3. So what`s the truth? Where does it come from?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And quick question. The caller wanted to know about a plea deal. Was a plea deal ever offered to Casey Anthony?
WENDY MURPHY, FORMER PROSECUTOR: From everything that I know, at least in the latter stages, no plea deal whatsoever. Early on I heard rumblings there might have been something.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: When it was the defense turn to cross-examine Cindy, Jose Baez played the very same 911 call, and he tried to make it work for the defense. Listen to this very carefully.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Casey says Zanny took her a month ago.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
BAEZ: You don`t hear George Anthony saying anything other than "what" on that tape, do you?
CINDY ANTHONY: I was yelling to George as he was getting out of the car. He parked his car on the street. And I was still in the driveway kind of close to the house.
BAEZ: Other than the word "what," do you hear him say anything on that 911 tape?
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t hear him say anything. I didn`t hear him say anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now Jose is trying to show that George had no reaction on July 15, because the defense claims, well, George already knew that little Caylee was dead, because he allegedly discovered her in the swimming pool a month earlier and then covered it all up.
Now, Cindy says, however, hey, there`s an innocent explanation. When she`s on the 911 call, her husband had just parked the car, and he was not as close to the phone as she was. So that`s why you don`t hear George getting hysterical and screaming and yelling, because he`s not right at the phone.
Now, on the other side of the break, what we`re going to talk about is another analysis of all of that. There are those who do believe that maybe George did know all along that little Caylee was dead and that that`s why he didn`t react. Those are the people who side with the defense. So we`re going to hear that side in just a moment. Don`t move a muscle, so much happened today. We`re back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: I overheard her tell him that Caylee had been gone for 31 days and that Zanny had taken her. I lost it. I just went into the room and started yelling at Casey. "What do you mean she`s been gone? Why didn`t you tell me?" I swore at her and hit the bed and ran out and called the police again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ANTHONY: I called a little bit ago, the deputy sheriff, I found out my granddaughter has been taken; she has been missing for a month. Her mother finally admitted that she`s been missing.
Send someone here now.
My daughter finally admitted that the baby-sitter stole her. I need to find her.
911 Operator: Your daughter admitted that the baby is where?
ANTHONY: Zanny took her a month ago. My daughter has been looking for her. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can`t find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself.
There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
911 Operator: Ok. What is the 3-year-old`s name?
ANTHONY: Caylee, c-a-y-l-e-e, Anthony.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: Tonight the emotional torture of a woman who has been completely crushed. Cindy Anthony testifies for the prosecution and completely loses her composure in front of the jury.
Meantime, we`re probably going to be seeing a lot more of Casey`s brother, Lee. Early this morning the judge ruled that Lee can sit in the courtroom during testimony, even though he`s a witness.
So Aphrodite Jones of "True Crime", you were in the courtroom. Did you see Lee after that ruling?
APHRODITE JONES, HOST, "TRUE CRIME": Yes, I did see Lee and he is there certainly very much supportive of his mother. He`s stoic. He looks to me like he`s the strength of the family right now, frankly, because George, in my opinion, is on a teeter-totter.
He`s so overwrought with the accusations, the emotions and the rawness of what`s going on in his whole family being aired out as dirty laundry for everyone to see. And I think Lee kind of has a little step back and he`s taking on that lead role of "I`m going to be there for you, Mom. I`m going to show you the calm that you need, give you the strength that you need."
I tell you, this woman, Cindy, seemed like she was praying at certain points while they were in sidebar on the witness stand. She literally held her head down, looked like she was praying for strength.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Praying or sobbing, convulsed in sobs.
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: She was sobbing.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think when she goes like this -- and I`ll throw it out to Stacey Honowitz -- I think she`s conflicted, not wanting to help people convict her daughter but at the same time not being able to contain her emotions. And she felt like if I hide my tears behind the desk, then I won`t be conveying to the jury how upset I am, but in fact it actually made us realize just how devastated she is.
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, she`s tormented for sure. I mean how do you -- I mean it`s so wrought with emotion. It`s a family member. Like I said earlier, testifying against any family member is very devastating in the cases I have (INAUDIBLE) batter cases.
I mean this is her daughter. Her granddaughter is dead. She made the phone call. If she had not gone over and got Casey out of that house, when was Casey ever going to report this baby dead? Never or we wouldn`t have ever known anything unless Cindy got the ball rolling.
So here she might feel this responsibility. Maybe I should have done something to protect my grandchild. Here I am making the phone call that leads my daughter to be sitting here today. So there`s got to be some area that she`s thinking I`ve got to protect her to some extent.
But here`s what truly happened. You can`t help that raw emotion. You can`t help what came out on that 911 tape. You can`t keep that inside. So she`s conflicted, she`s tormented and the jury is seeing it all.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I am very thrilled to welcome my very special guest tonight, Marcia Clark, you know her well, former prosecutor and author of the fantastic new novel "Guilt by Association". I know that`s going to be my hot summer read.
Marcia was the lead prosecutor in the O.J. Simpson murder trial. And one of her key witnesses was LAPD detective Mark Furman. Unfortunately he threw the case into a tailspin because of allegations that he was a racist.
A big shocker today because I knew Marcia was going to be on and when I saw this, I was like, oh, I`ve got to ask her about this. Mark Furman`s name comes up in Casey Anthony`s trial. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you recall ever meeting a man by the name of Mark Furman?
ANTHONY: Yes, I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he is that police officer from the O.J. Simpson case, is he not?
ANTHONY: Mr. Furman wanted to speak to us and offer any help that he could with his expertise as a detective.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marcia Clark, great to have you on our show. That must have been like deja vu all over again for you. What was your reaction when you heard Mark Furman`s name come into this case today?
MARCIA CLARK, AUTHOR, "GUILT BY ASSOCIATION": Mark Furman is turning into Selig (ph). Every time there`s a case out there, he`s offering his services and he did in a number of other cases as well. I thought, oh, stay away from this one, you just don`t need this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
I`ve got to ask you about this case. I don`t think I`ve ever seen more devastating testimony to a defendant in emotional terms than what we saw today coming from the defendant`s own mother, who was clearly conflicted. Not apparently wanting to hurt her daughter but not being able to stop herself because apparently she has enough integrity to want to tell the truth. Your reaction to that?
CLARK: You know, it`s a very difficult thing, and I`ve had had the experience myself, to put on the family of the defendant to basically present incriminating testimony. That family member as much as they might want to protect their daughter or son on trial also has the obligation to tell the truth.
And in this case it`s compounded by the fact that she`s also testifying about the murder of her granddaughter. She`s between literally an emotional rock and a hard place; very, very difficult thing for her to do. And so the fact that she is as emotional as she is, is really no surprise to me. It`s very, very hard for her and you can see it, it shows, it comes out all over the place.
Unlike some witnesses who may be kind of a little bit overdone in terms of their emotional response to the situation, hers seems very genuine, and I think we can all understand why.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, another devastating phone call and moment in this testimony today is when Casey makes her first phone call from jail. And we`re hearing this in the open court. And she`s talking to her brother, Lee and a friend of hers. The two of them are trying to get to the truth from her. Listen to this, unbelievable.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, ACCUSED OF KILLING DAUGHTER: I called to talk to my mother and it`s a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) waste. By the way, I don`t want any of you coming up here when I have my first hearing for bond and everything else. I don`t even want to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) your time coming up here.
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: I`m not going around and around with you, you know. That`s pretty pointless. I`m not going to go through -- I`m not going to put everybody else through the same stuff that you`ve been putting the police and everybody else through the last 24 hours and the stuff you`ve been putting mom through for the last four or five weeks.
So I`m saying whatever is going on, it`s going to be found out. So why not do it now and save yourself --
CAYLEE ANTHONY: There`s nothing to find out. There`s absolutely nothing to find out. Not even what I told the detective.
L. ANTHONY: Well, you know --
(CROSSTALK)
CASEY ANTHONY: If I knew where Caylee was, do you think any of this would be happening? No.
L. ANTHONY: Anyway, you`ve only got a couple of minutes with us, so I`m not going to let you -- here`s Christina. She thinks she can get through to you.
CASEY ANTHONY: No, no, I want Tony`s number. I`m not talking to anybody else.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have to tell me if you know anything about Caylee. If anything happened with Caylee, Casey, I`ll die. Do you understand? I`ll die. If anything happened to that baby --
CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, my god. Calling you guys, waste. Huge waste. I just want Caylee back. That`s all they`re worried about right now is getting Caylee back. You know what, that`s all I care about right now.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bounty hunter, Leonard Padilla, you spent time with Casey. There she is. Her friend is sobbing hysterically saying if anything happens to little Caylee and she goes, oh, a waste, a total waste. Give us an insight into where she`s coming from there.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Everything in Casey`s life has to be something about her, it has to be that she is the most important person in her life. Nobody else can crowd into that little space.
And I think if you sit there and watch her shed some tears in the courtroom here these past few days, the tears that she`s shedding are for her. They`re not for Caylee, not for her mom and certainly not for George.
But that`s Casey. Casey sat right there and told everybody on that telephone call that everybody was concerned about Caylee. Well, what about her? She`s the one that`s in jail.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Aphrodite Jones, I know that you read a lot more into George not screaming and yelling on the phone when he`s parking the car. I mean really when you see this kind of reaction, you`re still going to focus in on George not grabbing the phone when he`s just parking the car to scream his hysteria into the phone and that`s going to be incriminating? Please.
JONES: There`s no doubt, there`s no doubt, Jane, that Casey`s venomous voice to her family, first the mother, then the brother, then the friend from jail -- and that`s the first time the jury has ever heard from Casey Anthony at all in this trial, that that`s hurting her, is going to harm her in every way possible and it`s certainly a contrast to what her mother had to say and the tears of her mother and friend when they talked on the phone.
However, it doesn`t change the fact that George Anthony for whatever reason didn`t have an audible reaction to hearing that his grandbaby has been missing for 31 days. He does not have an audible reaction. He does not flip out, and that says something about the possibility that he knew that Caylee was already dead.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Either that or he just wasn`t close enough to the phone. We can agree to disagree.
Now, get Nancy Grace`s take on the most explosive moments of today`s testimony. She`s coming up in just a few minutes tonight at 8:00 p.m., and we still have so much more to talk about.
And again, we`re here with Marcia Clark, the world famous former prosecutor and also novelist of a fantastic new novel called the "Guilt by Association" as the Anthony trial heats up; mom, Cindy on the stand having really a heart-breaking meltdown. We`ll make sense of it all and we`re taking your calls.
Kaitlin in New York, we`re going to get to you on the other side --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: The smell of the car was like something I had never -- it was pretty strong. I mean I used that expression, you know, "What died."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you had the experience of being exposed to either rotting or decomposing flesh?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, ma`am, I have.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At that point, were you considering that something died in the car?
CINDY ANTHONY: No. At that point I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you tell any of the people at your office that the car smelled like garbage?
CINDY ANTHONY: I believe I told them that George and the tow driver had pulled a bag of garbage out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Everybody trying to nail down what exactly Cindy Anthony smelled in Casey`s car when she and George picked it up from the tow yard. Prosecutors are, well, getting her to use certain phrases like "who died", and then she actually used the phrase "rotting flesh" on cross examination by the defense. So that wasn`t a good moment for Jose Baez.
The question is she`s kind of going back and forth, almost like she`s walking a tight rope and trying to say the truth but also not totally incriminate her daughter -- a tough road to hoe (ph).
Kaitlin in New York, your question or thought Kaitlin?
KAITLIN, NEW YORK (via telephone): My thought is I keep going around and around about the baby-sitter. They said she had it for a year and a half or whatever. Maybe that was true, maybe the car was her baby-sitter and she put Caylee in the trunk, because obviously she couldn`t put her in the back seat, and this time she got too drunk and didn`t go back and get her out and found out the next day that she was dead. I mean --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Marcia Clark, a lot of people feel that it`s going to be hard for the jury to buy that she premeditated, actually planned killing her own precious toddler. And that many people, even those who feel that she`s a pathological liar and just an awful person find it hard to believe that she plotted her own toddler`s murder. How are prosecutors going to convince the jury of that?
CLARK: You know, these are -- you put your finger on another one of these intangibles that`s not really evidence but it`s something that certainly does make a jury stop and think.
And by the way, I would like to point out the parallels to the Menendez case. If you recall, the Menendez brothers were accused of murdering their parents. And one of the things that the prosecution had to get over was the jury`s reluctance to believe that these young, rich, very well-kept, well-tended boys would have committed these horrible shotgun killings of their parents. And then the defense was that as similar in Casey Anthony`s case that there was molestation and abuse in their past. This actually helped the defense more than it helped the prosecution, because not only did it explain why they did it but how it could have been done by them.
In the same way here, you have things going both ways. Yes, you have the natural reluctance to believe that a mother would kill her child, but the prosecution is doing a fairly good job of showing that she`s a party girl and the baby was in her way.
The way to overcome all of that, the reluctance of the jury, is to keep showing her demeanor, which is what they`re doing actually -- showing that she did not react like a normal mother would react. That she didn`t have the normal feelings that a mother should feel when a baby is missing, when she`s potentially dead. They`re showing this very well.
The defense is going to counteract it, of course, with the allegations of molestation by her father in an effort to show that her demeanor is all off. That she doesn`t react like a normal person because of what she`s been through.
In my opinion this case is going to be fought in large part along these gray areas outside the evidence with demeanor and the character of the defendant.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And that brings up the whole issue of motive, and that`s my big issue. We`ve been asking when the prosecution would introduce motive. Have they finally done it?
Listen to these two clips of testimony where Cindy and then Casey`s friend, Amy Huizenga, described how dysfunctional the family dynamic was. Is this motive?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you discuss with her your feelings that she was jealous of you in some fashion?
CINDY ANTHONY: It was brought up to me by her ex-fiance, Jesse Grund, when they were dating.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you discuss that with Casey?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, I did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That you had these feelings that you thought she was jealous of you?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the defendant ever tell you that she resented her parents?
AMY HUIZENGA, CASEY ANTHONY`S FRIEND: There were frustrations and unhappiness and obvious problems.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael Christian, senior field producer of "In Session", is the prosecution establishing motive now?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, "IN SESSION": You know, they don`t have to; you`ve got to remember that, Jane. They don`t have to. They have said earlier outside the jury`s presence that perhaps the motive in this case --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever see a photograph of Zanny the nanny?
CINDY ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever speak to Zanny the nanny?
CINDY ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You had no idea that Zanny was not a real person?
CINDY ANTHONY: No, I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she described to you that Zanny was -- looked like what?
CINDY ANTHONY: Over the course of the two years, Zanny had gotten her hair cut several times, but when I first heard about her, she had long black hair, and was very attractive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael Christian, aside from trying to prove that Cindy Anthony is a little gullible. At times I couldn`t get what point Jose Baez was trying to make in his cross-examination -- your thoughts.
CHRISTIAN: It`s hard to tell. And Aphrodite and I were just talking. One of the most interesting things in his cross examination Jane, was when he talked -- it was at the very beginning -- when he talked to Cindy about people say you`re just like Casey. Are you guys just alike, as if they were sort of doppelgangers of each other.
It was very strange and we`re not quite sure where that was going. But it was just a very bizarre moment. I think there were a lot of bizarre moments in his cross-examination.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I was asking you about motive. Has the prosecution proved motive?
CHRISTIAN: They don`t have to. You got to remember that. They don`t have to. But the closest they have come is they have suggested in an out of court hearing, this is not something that the jurors heard. But they suggested that Casey was tired of her life, she was tired of her restrictions. She wanted to be free. She wanted to be able to see her boyfriend anytime she wanted. Have him come over and sleep over anytime he wanted. And that frankly, Caylee and her parents were in the way.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, you`re saying that the jury did not hear that?
CHRISTIAN: That`s right. They have not heard that. That was argued before the judge. The judge said it was actually too prejudicial and too irrelevant to come in.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: What?
CHRISTIAN: And said, well, if that`s the case then isn`t the next logical question why didn`t she kill the parents too? So the judge at this point is not letting that in.
JONES: But some of it came in Jane. Some of it --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stacey, Stacey, Stacey, hold on a second. Stacey Honowitz, this boggles my mind that that is not allowed in. I mean the prosecution has to argue motive. Even though technically they don`t have to in order to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt they got to convey some kind of a motive for this.
HONOWITZ: No, they actually don`t have to. Now, it`s always nice for a jury to have a reason or a theory to convict a person of first degree murder but you`ll never hear it in jury instruction that the prosecution has to prove motive.
What happens in a circumstantial case -- even a direct evidence case - - is a theory is weaving through the examination of the witness by saying is she jealous, was she jealous. Jurors get a hint of what the state`s theory is going to be without them directly saying oh, she was jealous of Cindy.
I think what Jose was trying to do with nanny bit was -- I wouldn`t be surprised if he`s trying to bring in something about multiple personalities, like she had like imaginary friends --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well --
HONOWITZ: -- but you know, even something like that to try to show that she`s so out of it from sexual abuse.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, maybe.
Marcia -- Marcia Clark, we all know you can never predict what a jury is going to do. But how do you see the prosecution going thus far, 20 seconds?
CLARK: I think they are going just fine. They are proving, I think, with the demeanor of witnesses and proving the lack of response that a normal mother would have had to the disappearance of the daughter. They are showing the jury that she`s capable of doing this and they will, I`m sure, proceed with the more defined evidence later on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it`s been a pleasure having you on the show. I hope you come back because this is going to be a long trial.
CLARK: Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right back with my panel --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marcia Clark, very few of us know what it`s like to do an opening statement with the entire world watching. What is it like?
CLARK: Well, it`s actually something that you forget about pretty quickly. Remember that the cameras in the courtroom doesn`t mean they`re on a tripod in front of you. The camera usually is an eye in the wall above the jury box. And so you don`t see the cameras. The courtroom was very packed, of course. I was used to having people in the courtroom.
You get focused on the jury and I was really very concerned about that. Knowing what we were up against. I was focused on the jury and focused on making sure the points were clear and well-made and hope that they could hang on to it because I knew it would be a long trial and I would want them to remember the story.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Well, I have to say I can`t imagine doing an opening statement knowing that everybody is watching, but hats off to all of you prosecutors.
Nancy Grace next.
END
