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Nancy Grace
Smell of Death Takes the Spotlight in the Casey Anthony Trial
Aired June 07, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the case of 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct- taping, placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
The murder trial of tot mom Casey Anthony under way. Tot mom`s lawyer tells a stunned courtroom she has nothing to do with Caylee`s death, but that her own father, ex-cop George Anthony, shows up with Caylee`s dead body, then hides it and leaves it to rot. Tot mom also claims father George and brother Lee both sexually molest her.
Bombshell tonight. CSI says 2-year-old Caylee`s sandbox, her back yard, even her little playhouse were tot mom`s first choice as burial ground for little Caylee`s dead body. Multiple cadaver dogs hit on the same spots in the Anthonys` back yard, then move on the tot mom`s car.
And tot mom`s lead defense attorney, Jose Baez, says blame it on the trash, that it was not the stench of a tiny human corpse at all, that the stench was really just empty cheese, frozen food and pizza containers. But tot mom`s trash theory unravels right in front of the jury. But then tot mom has a back-up plan, now claiming police destroyed evidence. It`s O.J. Simpson all over again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: To come in here and attacking me. Not going to (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Garus jumped up into the trunk front end, stuck his head in there. I was overwhelmed at that point because same thing, I`m hitting it same time he is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the amount of chloroform that you found surprise you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were shocked.
CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t have any answers!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not what you would call shockingly high levels of chloroform, would it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, sir.
CASEY ANTHONY: Everybody wants me to have answers!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Garus comes out of the trunk with his front paws and gives me a final (ph) trend (ph) alert.
CASEY ANTHONY: People are always going to be nice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Play area, playhouse, the kids bench, sand, playbox area.
CASEY ANTHONY: How I feel in this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You mistakenly admitted the wrong piece of evidence in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
CASEY ANTHONY: People really need to get a life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re not accustomed to handling evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
CASEY ANTHONY: If they have nothing to positive to say, they need to shut up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Cops, CSI says 2-year-old Caylee`s sandbox, her back yard, even her little playhouse were tot mom`s very first choice as burial ground for little Caylee`s dead body.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you tell the members of the jury where (INAUDIBLE) final alert occurred?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Within that circle, within that area, playhouse, sandboxes behind the little bench area, picnic table.
CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don`t know what`s going on!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) trash bag.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: White trash bag.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Papers, aluminum foil, Crystal Light, Coca-Cola (INAUDIBLE)
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m frustrated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inside, I could see a pizza box.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pizza box. Anything inside?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was pizza full of maggots.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: There was a bag of pizza for what, 12 days in the back of the car.
CASEY ANTHONY: I have no one to talk to!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are speculating that remains were there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For (ph) the car to clarify (ph), clear as day, I smelled it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That same odor, that`s just something you never forget.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, as if yesterday, when the defense attorney, Jose Baez, compared fatty acids that allegedly come from Caylee`s body staining the car`s trunk to raw hamburger meat or raw chicken, today the stench that not only cadaver dogs but other CSI members noticed, he says isn`t the smell of a tiny human corpse at all. As a matter of fact it`s just empty containers of cheese, of pizza, of frozen food.
Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session," joining us here at the Orlando courthouse. What happened?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy, today was man`s best friend, the trainer for Garus, a German shepherd from Germany, certified and trained as a cadaver dog here in Florida, went to that home, the Anthony home, in July of 2008. He went in the back yard. He did not hit at the swimming pool. He did not hit outside the swimming pool, but made a final positive alert next to the playhouse, in the sand and by the mailbox of Caylee Anthony.
GRACE: So long story short, Jean Casarez, you`re telling me that this dog -- and I believe it was followed up by another dog who also hit in the back yard -- hit all around little Caylee`s sandbox and her playhouse. Describe that playhouse for me.
And I recall distinctly when Cindy Anthony was on the stand and they showed her a photo of little Caylee`s playhouse, she broke down in tears. She and George Anthony had bought that little playhouse for Caylee to play in. She had very little time to play in it before she left this world. Describe, Jean.
CASAREZ: Nancy, it`s an amazing area for a little girl. It`s a playhouse that you could actually go in. And they didn`t want the grass for Caylee to have to play in, so they paved it inside that playhouse. And she had her little mailbox and she had her little umbrella and she had her little things all there, her little area. And that`s where the dog, the cadaver dog, made that hit that he smelled decomposition from that area.
GRACE: To Paul Penzone, former sergeant, Phoenix PD, child advocate. Paul, obviously, the body was not dragged by tot mom across the yard to these locations, it had to be carried or else the dog would have been hitting all along the path from the home to the playhouse, to the sandbox across the back yard. But the dogs went specifically to the area around the playhouse and the sandbox.
PAUL PENZONE, FMR. SGT., PHOENIX PD: As an investigator, I would look at that and I would say it seems as though, initially, whoever was trying to hide that body was looking for somewhere where there was an emotional attachment, and you`re right, carrying it from place to place and eventually going onward to a different location where she`s eventually left and buried.
But I want to go back to the stench of death. Once you`ve smelled it, it stays with you forever. There is no other scent that is as distinguishable. So it`s just very interesting right now in this investigation, in this court trial.
GRACE: You know, Paul Penzone, a lot of people have asked me about that since this case started, What is it like? And I can`t think of anything like it. There`s nothing that compares to the smell of a human corpse, a decomposing human corpse. There`s nothing really to even compare it to. Would you agree, Penzone?
PENZONE: You can`t put it into words. And once you have experience, it stays with you. But the uniqueness of it, how vile it is, is something that you can`t describe for someone else to experience. But once you have, you know it distinctly. There are a few other things that have a scent that leaves you with that same feeling, but nothing compares to the scent of a decomposing body.
GRACE: We are here outside the Orlando courthouse, taking your calls, our team in the courtroom all day long, watching as this unfolded in front of an Orlando jury.
And the reality is, Steve Helling, writer with "People" magazine, also in court today -- Steve, when Jose Baez, the lead defense attorney, got up to do cross-exam, he actually tried to compare this stench to empty frozen food containers. They were empty. They were empty.
And of course, that led to another drama in the courtroom that culminated in the defense claiming -- when all else fails, claim the police tampered with and destroyed the evidence. That`s where it ended, with the defense claiming, Aha, you, police, CSI, you tampered with and you destroyed evidence. It`s O.J. Simpson all over again, Steve!
STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: Yes. It was kind of crazy. And the point was that there were two napkins that had been dried out in, basically, a drying room. And so Baez was asking, Does that mean the DNA was damaged? Does that mean that the integrity of the evidence isn`t any good? Did you -- he stopped short of accusing the CSI of doing this willfully, but he certainly said, you know, Hey, perhaps this evidence isn`t as intact as it needs to be.
I don`t think -- the jury didn`t seem to buy it. They actually sort of ignored what he was saying at that point. So I don`t think that that really -- that that punch landed where Jose Baez wanted it to land.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. out to Jennifer. Hi, Jennifer. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I`m actually curious if you know if the diary entry that Casey supposedly wrote during those 31 days that Caylee was missing -- if that was going to be put into evidence.
GRACE: Great question. I recall, Natisha Lance -- also in court today, joining us here at the courthouse -- that in one of her entries, she said, I do not regret my decision. I think I made the right decision. I hope everything is going to be OK now. Do you recall that, Natisha? And that was several weeks after Caylee went missing that she put that in. Are the diary entries going to come into evidence?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, this particular diary entry that you`re speaking about, it did come out in discovery. However, we`re not sure if it`s going to be entered into evidence with this case right now.
What we do know about this entry is that the Anthony family has said that Casey Anthony made that entry in 2003. However, police detectives say that the notebook that that diary entry was entered into had not come out until 2004. So it`s debatable as to whether or not Casey Anthony had made that submission in 2008 or in 2003, as her family has said.
GRACE: Good point. Everyone, we are here outside of the Orlando, Orange County, courthouse, bringing you the latest at the end of the courthouse day.
Back to Jean Casarez. Explain to me how we got to the dogs, the cadaver dogs, two of them, hitting in the back yard, specifically smelling the scent of a human corpse around little Caylee`s playhouse -- that her grandparents bought her, of course -- around the sandbox for Caylee in the back yard, to comparing the smell in the car to empty fast food containers.
CASAREZ: Well, it all started with the car because Garus first went to the car and jumped into the back seat and scrambled to try to get to the trunk. They took the dog out, went around and he made a positive trained (ph) alert on the back trunk of Casey`s car. So then they took him to the house after that because they had seen something suspect on the northeast portion of the property, but it was the southeast portion, right next to the playhouse, where he made that second positive alert.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: I had the same frickin` feeling that I did (INAUDIBLE) the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have forensic evidence that has been returned to us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you immediately recognize the odor that was emanating from the piece of carpet in the can?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a strong odor (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I smelled it clear as day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A horrible smell.
GEORGE ANTHONY: You don`t forget that odor.
CINDY ANTHONY: It stunk so bad.
CASEY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) stink (INAUDIBLE) showered in two days.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The smell that I smelled inside that car was the smell of decomposition.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) recognize it as human decomposition.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) get sick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) can say there`s evidence of searches on a computer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) searches were conducted for, quote, "how to make chloroform."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chloroform in the trunk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The chloroform was shockingly...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where`s the credit card receipt?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Residues of chloroform were identified.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She didn`t just walk into Walgreen`s and buy chloroform.
CASEY ANTHONY: I just watched the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) news.
Nobody in my own family is on my side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) George (INAUDIBLE) throwing up back here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t see anything in the trunk. I smelled it clear as day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As it relates to your searches, where there are no remains found, it could be either there are no remains, there were never any remains there, there is residual -- or there`s residual odor, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To clarify, the back yard, that is correct. For the car, to clarify, clear as day, I smelled it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live here at the Orange County courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee, Caylee found just 15 house from the Anthony home, disposed, thrown away in a makeshift pet cemetery in a densely wooded area.
Today, it was all about the smell, multiple cadaver dogs hitting on the Anthony family back yard, around little Caylee`s playhouse her grandparents bought for her, around her sandbox, and ultimately hitting on tot mom`s trunk.
So out to you, Ellie Jostad. What`s the scenario that state is building based on where the dogs hit?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Well, what I think they`re building to is that Caylee died. At some point, her body was in that back yard. It was moved to the trunk, eventually disposed of on Suburban Drive. That would explain why you`ve got the cadaver dogs hitting in both the back yard -- and reminder, there`s two dogs that hit in that back yard, and then this dog, Garus, that hit on the trunk.
GRACE: OK, now, out to Tracy Sargent joining us, K9 trainer, service (ph) rescue recovery specialist. With her is Cinco (ph), her K9 dog. Tracy, to you specifically, before I get into a demonstration with the dog. Cadaver dogs hit only on decomposing human bodies. They do not hit on Chinese food containers, frozen food containers, old cheese containers, empty pizza containers. They don`t hit on that, do they.
TRACY SARGENT, K9 HANDLER: That is correct, Nancy. These dogs and their ability to smell is so acute that they can distinguish the difference against many smells, and certainly some of the ones that you mentioned earlier. So they can distinguish the difference between a dead animal, food or garbage, and in this case, human remains.
GRACE: Out to special guest joining us out of San Francisco, Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation, who has tirelessly represented victims since the abduction and murder of his little girl, Polly. So Marc Klaas, in the end, we see it as we predicted. It`s O.J. Simpson all over again. When you don`t know what else to claim, claim police framed your client and destroyed evidence. That`s what it`s boiled down to in the courtroom, Marc Klaas.
MARK KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, you know, they can play all the games that they want, but I have no doubt that the jury is not disregarding evidence. I believe the jury is listening very, very carefully to everything that`s being said. And when they finally get it into the jury room, they will make a very deliberate and careful verdict and come out with their findings.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pizza box, anything inside?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But they`re saying about in the trunk of the car.
CINDY ANTHONY: There was a bag of pizza for what, 12 days in the back of car, full of maggots, and it stunk so bad. You know how hot it`s been. That smell was terrible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What sort of items did you utilize to imprint Garus on the scent of human remains?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rags that were soaked in chest cavities to include some placenta.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh!
CINDY ANTHONY: There`s no smoking gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chloroform was shockingly high, unusually high.
CASEY ANTHONY: Surprise, surprise.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the amount of chloroform that you found surprise you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were shocked.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She killed an innocent angel baby just so she could go out and be a party girl.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are here outside of the Orange County courthouse, taking your calls live.
Out to the lines. Jennifer in Indiana. Hi, Jennifer. Oh, excuse me! Donna in California. Hi, Donna. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I want to know, opening statements, when the defense attorney, Jose, said that George knew about the drowning and covered it up and Casey knew it -- why didn`t she say something when she`s in jail crying for bail? That would have gotten her out instantly, wouldn`t it? Why did she hold that back? I think she`d have thrown her father under the bus in a week if she knew that.
GRACE: You know, Donna, you`re so right because by telling this jury her father and brother sexually molested her, even saying that her father made her perform oral sex, then shuttled her off to the school bus, she would absolutely throw them under the bus.
What about it, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: You know, what`s interesting is the progression of this case. First it was child neglect charges. Then it was first degree murder charges. And then the state said that they would be seeking death, gave notice to her. So where along that line would you not say, It was a tragic accident, I didn`t mean to do it, or say that your father is responsible in some part?
GRACE: But you know, Jean, the whole point of the cover-up was to save tot mom from facing murder one charges or child neglect charges, and the drowning -- that doesn`t even make sense. She is facing murder one charges. That`s a heck of a lot worse than a voluntary manslaughter or child neglect charges. The whole premise...
CASAREZ: Exactly.
GRACE: ... doesn`t make sense. But Jean, in court today, it was all about the playhouse, the sandbox, the car. What happened? And what was the attack by the defense?
CASAREZ: Well, it was all about the dog corroborating what George Anthony and Cindy Anthony and CSI and what Dr. Vass`s chemicals of decomposition -- the dog hit right in there in the trunk, so that corroborates all the witnesses.
How did they attack the dog? Handler (ph) Baez -- you knew that the whole community was saying that car smelled, and you wanted your dog to hit. And number two, it`s all speculation. It`s a dog.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The neighbor says the child`s mother borrowed shovel.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: I`m so beyond frustrated with all of this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did have somebody calls to tell us that a shovel was borrowed on the (INAUDIBLE) day that -- paying close proximity did the child being missing.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: Caylee is missing. The playhouse --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you tell the members of the jury --
CINDY ANTHONY: We bought it like a month before her second birthday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- where the trained final alert occurred?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Within that circle, in that area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The smell in that car was that a smell that you recognized?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I indicated for the tech to open the trunk.
CINDY ANTHONY: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And of course, I was overwhelmed at that point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Consistent with human decomposition.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The trunk was opened. Garris (ph) jumped up into the trunk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His whole body?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, at front end. Front end. He stuck his head in there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What died?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And gives me a final train alert. He goes in the down position.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are live outside of the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest trial of Casey Anthony, tot mom, charged with the murder of her 2-year-old little girl. You`re seeing her there at her last birthday party. And disposing of the body like trash. Just 15 houses away from the Anthony home.
It is nearly three years to the date that Caylee went missing. June 16th.
We are taking your calls and it was a blockbuster day in the courtroom today. For weeks now we`ve heard about a so-called behavioral evidence of tot mom in the days, the weeks, sometimes the hours after Caylee goes missing but now in an abrupt turn the state is focusing specifically on forensics.
Jean Casarez, recap.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy today it was dog evidence. A certified cadaver dog from the state of Florida came into that courtroom through its handler today and testified that it did a positive alert at the sandbox. At the play area. The sand. The mail box. The picnic table. Where little Caylee loved to be.
They said her deceased body was there. They said that through the dogs alert.
GRACE: You are seeing footage taken at the time the dogs were hitting all around the backyard.
Let`s see that in full please, Liz.
This is what the defense is contesting. Dogs, together over 15 years of experience. Hitting not just one dog, several dogs, hitting at Caylee`s little sandbox. Her playhouse. And then on to tot mom`s car.
The defense, Natisha, in a nutshell, was what?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, in a nutshell the defense was trying to attack the credibility of this dog handler. They were trying to say that there was a handbook and in that handbook it says, you`re supposed to videotape your hits when you have them. And he said well, that`s not the standard that we uphold when we`re with the Orange County Sheriff`s Office. But they did play today one videotape of a hit that this dog did conduct back in 2006.
But also, Nancy, I believe that they`re trying to attack the credibility of this dog by saying that`s the second day when this dog came to the Anthony`s backyard there was no hit that happened. But what the handler said is that that area had been scraped off and that is why he believes his dog did not make a hit.
GRACE: And to Steve Helling, writer with "People" magazine, the first time the dogs hit, it was documented. They made notes. They documented exactly where the dogs hit in the backyard. Then they scraped the top of the dirt. The next day the dogs did not hit.
That leads them to believe the body wasn`t buried there or the hit would have repeated again after the surface had been scraped. That the body was -- sat there, they sat it there for who knows how long to try to figure out where it was going to be buried.
What`s the state`s theory, Steve?
STEVE HELLING, STAFF WRITER, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: Well, you know, it`s clear that the body had been moved a couple of times. Obviously it ended up in the car. And the thought is, if there was some panicking situation going on, whatever, that the body would have been laid down there on the ground while the killer was trying to decide what to do.
And so, you know, whether or not they can tie that to Casey is a good question. But that`s what they think.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, defense attorney Raymond Giudice. Out of Washington, D.C., Christopher Almosch, defense attorney.
Weigh in, Ray.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, we`ve all seen the dogs, the bomb sniffers, our hero dogs in the war. The jurors now give these dogs a lot of credibility. And his handlers and trainers as we`re about to see are so well trained and so expert. I think it has high degree of credibility.
One last thing. It ain`t where the dog hit on, i.e., the play area. It`s where it didn`t hit on -- the pool area -- that`s relevant for the prosecution.
GRACE: You know, Ray, that is a heck of a point. Right there. The dogs did not hit on the swimming pool which is one of the reasons I`m contending they had to attack the credibility of not only the dog handler but the dog, because, one, as you point out, didn`t hit on the pool where they claim Caylee`s body was and these dogs can smell under water.
I`ve learned that myself using dogs in court.
And they`ve got to attack the credibility of the dog because it did hit in tot mom`s car trunk. So for those two reasons the defense has got to destroy the dogs and the dog handler on the stand.
Christopher Amolsch, she`s got another good point. Everyone is familiar with bomb dogs, drug dogs, vision dogs for the handicapped, even dogs who can tell if you`re about to have a seizure.
And I got to tell you something, Christopher. The best witness I ever put on the stand was a dog.
CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Sure.
GRACE: It was to cross-examination, better than any other human I`ve ever put on the stand. So juries are attracted to dogs, they like dogs, they like the dogs to come into the courtroom. That`s why I always would try to put on a demonstration for the jury because they truly are man`s best friend.
So how far did the defense go today trying to attack the dog, trying to attack the dog handler?
AMOLSCH: Well, they did the best they could but in an odd kind of way, this is not actually all that bad evidence for -- from a death penalty point of view. I mean this shows that they were trying to figure out what to do with the body, where to put it. They put it in various different places assuming the dog is correct.
This goes directly against the idea that this was somehow premeditated --
GRACE: Put him up.
AMOLSCH: -- to warrant a death penalty for sure.
GRACE: Put him up. Amolsch. Amolsch.
AMOLSCH: Nancy, yes.
GRACE: It didn`t hit on the pool. That`s their theory.
AMOLSCH: It didn`t hit on the pool for sure.
GRACE: The dogs -- none of them hit on the pool.
AMOLSCH: I agree --
GRACE: It torpedoes their defense. It`s devastating to the defense.
AMOLSCH: Well, they have multiple things going on here. They`re trying to figure out, you know, not only how the jury find her not guilty but in the event that they do how do they save her life? And this piece of evidence can really help them, I think, in the sentencing phase. If it gets that far.
To show that nobody really planned this out. That this doesn`t meet the criteria for a death penalty offense.
GRACE: Well, you know what? You`re from Venus, I`m from Mars, and however it goes, because that doesn`t make any sense to me. Because their whole claim to the jury is, she drowned in the pool, the dog didn`t hit on the pool. But I`m going to give you the commercial break to try to -- to work it out in your own mind.
Very quickly, our thoughts and prayers to CNN correspondent Susan Candiotti and her family after her beloved mother Edna passes away June 4, Cool Spring, Kentucky.
Edna Candiotti took care of her family even to the end. Mothering highly respected news journalist, our friend, Susan Candiotti.
Miss Edna loved the Crestview Hills Women`s Club and volunteering as a reading tutor at Sacred Heart Church.
Miss Edna leaves behind her daughters Susan and Mimi, grandchildren Nicole and Christopher, great-grandchildren Madison and Liam. Married 64 years. She`s gone to heaven to be with husband Mario.
Edna Candiotti. Good night, friend. You will be sorely missed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I received the items, I just preserved it. I don`t consider myself that I disturbed any kind of evidence because the evidence was there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The can is not what I examined for evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yesterday you mistakenly admitted the wrong piece of evidence in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Apparently, yes.
CASEY ANTHONY: People have been lying to you, guys. Not for our best interest. Not for our family. Not for Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chloroform was shockingly high, unusually high.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chloroform that was identified in those items.
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: It`s not what you would call shockingly high levels of chloroform, would it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very, very small amount.
CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, my god calling you guys a waste. Huge waste.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These items have any particular odor?
CINDY ANTHONY: Bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car? It stunk so bad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pizza box, anything inside?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m not in control over any of this because I don`t know what the hell is going on.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are here outside the Orlando courthouse bringing you the latest on the trial of tot mom Casey Anthony on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl Caylee.
To Jean Casarez, explain to me how tot mom responded when she was seeing little Caylee`s playhouse, her sandbox in the context that cadaver dogs were hitting on them?
CASAREZ: Nancy, there`s just not much reaction. There isn`t. She watches, she listens, she`s engaged. She takes notes. But not an emotional reaction to this evidence.
GRACE: To Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist joining us out of New York, what does that mean if anything?
DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, as we`ve said many times, she`s very narcissistic. And she`s only living in her own world. So she`s going to believe that nobody is going to believe it.
Listen, it`s very hard to meet a level of common sense to get dogs to participate in a conspiracy. You just can`t do it. What are you going to do? Give them special cookies? So she`s sitting there, thinking that everybody is going to buy these stories, and there`s just no way it`s going to happen. It doesn`t even meet common sense.
GRACE: And to Natisha Lance, what`s with all that petting and pawing all -- the defense attorneys are constantly like, they`re rubbing tot mom`s shoulder, they are rubbing her back, they are massaging her. They`re rubbing her hand like -- stop. What`s with that?
LANCE: You know, Nancy, I think her defense team has become a part of Casey Anthony`s family. Remember she hasn`t seen any -- had any physical contact with her family since August of 2008. So I think she`s developed a really close relationship with her defense team and in a sense they are acting like second parents to her.
GRACE: Well, it`s especially creepy when the wife of the serial killer, the guy on death row, just like hangs all over tot mom, that one video.
See if you can pull that, Liz. He looks like a vampire. I think she`s going to like bite her in the neck. They`re that close in the courtroom. You know that`s another whole can of worms.
Jean Casarez, today in court we heard the defense claim that because the police dried out the trash in the trunk, in other words, they laid it out on the table and let it dry -- air dry, that they tampered with it, that they destroyed evidence. What are they talking about?
CASAREZ: Well, they`re talking about those were the napkins, the paper towels that were inside the trash bag. It`s the contention of the prosecution that that contained fatty acids from decomposition of adipose tissue. In other words maybe she wiped the trunk because there was that stain.
Well, the defense is saying you packaged it the wrong way, we couldn`t even get DNA from it.
But, Nancy, I`ve covered so many cases in Florida, and you know what? The hot sun in Florida, it destroys DNA.
GRACE: To Dr. Michael Hunter, chief medical examiner in Panama City, forensic pathologist.
Dr. Hunter, there are several stages to decomposition. The last being dried. At what point --
DR. MICHAEL HUNTER, M.D., CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, PANAMA CITY, FL., FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: I didn`t catch that last part.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: At what point in the decomposition of the human body does the stench reach its zenith?
HUNTER: Yes. You were talking about something earlier about the fact that the cadaver dogs hadn`t hit on the pool. Yes, you`re really not going to start that decomposition for, you know, probably a day. So that would explain why the dog wouldn`t be hitting in that area.
But it depends on a lot of factors, primarily heat. If you have heat, which that body is exposed to, say, direct sunlight, then that decomposition will balloon within just a couple of days. And it will remain to the point where it has that type of odor for, you know, a significant period of time. Then you start to go through the process of maybe some mummification, drying and so forth.
GRACE: Dr. Hunter. Dr. Hunter, please. Come on, help me out, Doctor.
HUNTER: What?
GRACE: We`re not all PhDs like you. OK? Dumb it down for me.
HUNTER: Right. Right.
GRACE: When you say a significant period of time, what does that mean?
HUNTER: You know, what happens -- let`s say a body is found, you know, say, four or five days in an environment where there`s significant heat, that is going a decomposed, very malodorous body.
As that body continues to decompose, say, several weeks after that then you`re starting to get that drying skeletonization, it has more of a musky odor that`s not that same type of odor that I think we`ve been talking about in this case.
GRACE: Out to Tracy Sargent and Cinco, K9 trainer, service, rescue, recovery specialist.
Show me what you got, Tracy.
TRACY SARGENT, K9 HANDLER, SEARCH, RESCUE AND RECOVERY SPECIALIST: Well, what we`re going to show here in the studio, Nancy, is tied directly into the discussions that had been going on. Also we get a lot of questions about what do dogs actually respond to and what they don`t.
In this case we`re going to show you they`re not going to respond to animal remains because we have that here in the studio as well as rotting food. And then we have a cadaver aid in here. So we`re going to demonstrate that now.
Cinco, ready? Hunt.
What we`re doing right now, he is showing -- he`s searched the area. He went by animal remains, rotting food and he`s doing what we called his trained alert. In this case it is a sit. So he has told us that there is human remains in this area.
Now one of the things that was brought up, too, is that dogs are great about telling us where things are and where things are not. So in this case he went through the studio, he checked many things, he told us there`s nothing there and then he did not respond to any animal remains or rotting food. Only to cadaver scent.
GRACE: And Tracy, what were those objects Cinco walked by?
SARGENT: Yes. We have furniture, we have trash. We have again a deer antler which is animal remains and we have a rotting food which is actually a piece of pork chop. Then we have a cadaver source, and he only responded to the cadaver source.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get it for the tech to open the trunk. Continue down the driver`s side to the trunk area and we turned down the side -- or the rear of the trunk. The trunk was open. Garris jumped up into the trunk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His whole body?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, front end. Front end, stuck his head in there. And, of course, I was overwhelmed at that point because the same thing, I`m hitting it the same time he is. I move around. Continue to walk. Garris coming out of the trunk with his front paws.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LANCE: It was not a scent that you`d want to be around for a long period of time. It`s not a pleasant smell. It`s something that I could deal with right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It has a pungent odor, a musky style of odor to it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Animals tend to have a more muskier scent.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you smell the odor of human remains?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, definitely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Domesticated animals like a pig have much sweeter scent than human remains.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. We are here outside the Orlando courthouse. Straight out to the lines. Desiree, Tennessee.
Hi, Desiree.
DESIREE, CALLER FROM TENNESSEE: Hi. I was just wondering, how is Baez going to explain the tattoo that she`d gotten in July, a couple of weeks after --
GRACE: OK, Desiree, I hate to give the defense any ideas, but I guarantee you they`re going to claim that was some kind of tribute, the beautiful life, to Caylee.
What do you think, Natisha? What do you know?
LANCE: I think you`re absolutely right, Nancy. Because remember the defense is saying that Caylee died on June 16th. So they`re already going forward and admitting that. So that tattoo, just as you said, it could end up being an ode to Caylee`s life.
GRACE: Amolsch?
AMOLSCH: So you`re going to do with it, you have to explain it somehow. That`s only explanation.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal Michael Schwartz, 20, Carlsbad, New Jersey, killed Iraq. Awarded Purple Heart, Navy and Marine Achievement medals, New Jersey distinguished service medal. A volunteer firefighter. Loved offroading in his jeep with his brother, watching the History Channel. Leaves behind grieving parents Pamela and Kenneth, brother, Frank.
Michael Schwarz, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you.
And tonight, a happy 1st birthday to little crime fighter, Matthew. He loves his mommy, Karen, his daddy, Dean, our show`s executive producer and creator, and his big brothers Luke and Will.
But don`t worry, Matthew, my odds, you`ll be a big brother pretty soon.
Happy birthday, Matthew.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, from here, as we seek justice for Caylee, outside the Orlando courthouse. And until then, good night, friend.
END
