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Nancy Grace
Anthony Jury Shown Graphic Photos of Caylee`s Remains
Aired June 09, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the case of 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct- taping, placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
The murder trial of tot mom Casey Anthony under way. Tot mom`s lawyer tells a stunned courtroom she has nothing to do with Caylee`s death, but that her own father, ex-cop George Anthony, shows up with Caylee`s dead body, then hides it and leaves it to rot. Tot mom also claims father George and brother Lee both sexually molest her.
Bombshell tonight. Tot mom dry heaves, holds her head down in her hands, then leaves the courtroom as extremely disturbing photos of little Caylee`s skull, her empty eye sockets, her little teeth, matted clumps of light brown hair embedded in weeds and vines. Items from the Anthony home clearly visible at the crime scene -- Caylee`s Winnie-the-Pooh blanket, her little shorts, filthy and crumpled, the family`s canvas laundry bag, a red Disney bag strewn around little Caylee`s dismembered bones like a trash heap, court watchers staring in stunned silence as they view a densely wooded makeshift pet cemetery, 2-year-old Caylee`s burial ground.
This as lead defense attorney Jose Baez complains to the judge that party pics make tot mom look like a, quote, "lesbian" dancing with other women. After today in court, they`ve got a lot more to worry about than party pics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Orange County utilities emergency dispatch. We found a human skull.
911 OPERATOR: Oh, my gosh!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Recover a skull from this area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The skull -- that`s the skull. You can see a pair of shorts and a black plastic bag.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It seemed to be embedded in the vines.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In this photograph is the skull, with duct tape present.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like, right about there, without the glasses, OK, just below or just a little bit below or touching a little bit above the eye socket.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zanny held Casey down (INAUDIBLE) on her wrists. She was taking Caylee from her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Anthony is ill. We are recessing for the day.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: The thought of that every day makes me sick.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Neither the state nor the defense has any comments concerning her illness. We are ending at this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Tot mom dry heaves, holds her head down in her hands, then leaves court abruptly as extremely disturbing photos of little Caylee`s skull, her empty eye sockets, Caylee`s little teeth, matted clumps of light brown hair embedded in weeds and vines, court watchers staring in stunned silence as they view a densely wooded makeshift pet cemetery which turned out to be 2-year-old Caylee`s burial ground.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We actually passed the bag and skull.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The skull is located to the west -- the northwest area of the log.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I stood over the skull, looked at it, and we left the area right away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The front of the skull with duct tape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The person that found it may have kicked it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I focused on the skull and the garbage bag that was next to it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chloroform.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many times was that site visited?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eighty-four times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would just lay out for our argument that any photos that would implicate or insinuate in any way that my client is a lesbian through the dancing she`s doing with this other woman...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you -- have you been to the nightclubs in the last three or four years?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have. But I don`t think too of the many members of this jury, whose average age is 50, has and would be extremely offended.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She collapsed into the chair, hyperventilating.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Anthony is ill. We are recessing for the day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live here, camped outside the Orlando, Orange County, courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee.
Well, as predicted, today a stunning day in the Orange County courthouse as a quiet descended over the courtroom. And let me see that photo or some of that video, Liz, of court watchers staring up just stunned, some of their mouths wide open as they are looking at little Caylee`s remains, this beautiful little 2-year-old girl. You`ve seen the photos, like all of us, the videos of her.
Today the jury saw her, as did the court watchers and the media skeletonized. Her skull was embedded in vines and weeds up to about the eye socket. Remember, Tropical Storm Fay had come in in the interim, and her little body was probably floating in this plastic bag and filthy water for God knows how long. There was a shot of Caylee`s skull at the morgue, where you could see down through her eye sockets and count her teeth, if you had wanted to.
To Jean Casarez, in court today. What happened, Jean?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy, Casey Anthony did not look at any of those photos, but she had to listen in that courtroom. And it became very graphic in the afternoon as the eye sockets and the teeth and the skull and the vines and the hair, Nancy, was described for the jury through testimony.
She began by just looking away and crying, but as the day went on, she looked down. She grasped her hands and her sweater like if she was cold. And at the afternoon break, the judge then said court was over, it was finished -- outside the presence of the jury -- because Casey Anthony is ill.
GRACE: Well, as a matter of fact, Michael Christian, she`s apparently in sick bay right now at this hour, apparently being treated for -- I don`t know what. We do know that she did shed some tears. We saw her apparently dry heave, shudder into her hand a couple of times in the courtroom.
What did you observe in court today, Michael Christian? Michael joining us, senior field producer with "In Session."
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SR. FIELD PRODUCER, "IN SESSION": It was interesting. There was a little difference between the morning and the afternoon, Nancy. The photos in the afternoon were much more graphic. Now, she didn`t look at anything. But at least in the morning, as they were showing preliminary photographs that kind of led into these things -- that showed, for example, the wooded area where the body was found, shot from the perspective of the road, things that don`t show anything graphic - - she looked at the screen on those instances.
But as they got down the path and we were certainly getting to the area where the bodies were, as Jean said, she just didn`t look. She looked away. She was not looking at her monitor. She looked down. The photos in the afternoon are much more graphic than the photos from this morning. As Jean said, the descriptions of those photos are much more graphic.
She drank a lot of water. She had a lot of empty bottles of water in front of her. I think that was a way she was coping with it. But most of the afternoon, just looking down, kind of with her arms around herself and just looking like she just was wishing this would just all go away.
GRACE: You know, Michael, I appreciate your rendition about tot mom and her behavior or her purported reaction in court. I want to hear more about the evidence. I want the viewers to hear the evidence that was heard by the jury today. And thankfully, George, Cindy and Lee Anthony were not in the courtroom to see what we all saw.
CHRISTIAN: That`s right.
GRACE: Go ahead, Michael, describe the evidence, please, and how it came in.
CHRISTIAN: You know, they started showing photos in the morning. And the first photos that we`ve seen, which were taken by a crime scene investigator, you can see the skull in some of these photographs, but it`s hard to tell what it is. There were a few photos where, until it was pointed out by the witness, I had no idea that that`s what I was looking at.
In a lot of photographs, it looks like a rock or maybe a gourd. You know, it`s just kind of this light sort of off-white thing. There`s hair on it. I know now that it`s hair, but at the time, it looked like it might be plant roots or some sort of vegetation. You really didn`t get in the morning series of photographs what you were looking at with the full impact.
This afternoon, we had photographs after it was taken back to the morgue, after it was unwrapped and photographed, as it was being taken into evidence there. Those photos are much more explicit. They are much closer up. You can see the mandible, the lower jaw. When the mandible is removed, you can see little teeth in her mouth. You can see the strands, the few strands of hair on top of the head, but a big clump of matted hair on the left side.
And what`s most interesting is the duct tape. In the morning photos, it`s hard to tell that the duct tape is actually attached to the skull. It almost looks like it`s just sort of sitting alongside of it or in front of it. But without all the vegetation around and with the closer-up photos, you can see -- especially when the skull is sitting upright and you get the effect of the eye sockets, you can see it`s a skull. Then you see that this duct tape is at least partially attached to the front of her mouth and also to the mat of hair on the side.
I think that`s when it really sinks in that you are looking at the skull of a little girl.
GRACE: To Natisha Lance, our producer, also in court today. Everyone, we are live here at the Orange County, Orlando, courthouse, bringing you the case of murder against tot mom, Casey Anthony.
What did you observe, Natisha?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, much of what Michael also observed, but these jurors were fixated on these photos. I didn`t see many of them looking across over at Casey Anthony. And we were expecting to see some more facial expressions or reactions from the jurors, but they were there doing their job today. They were looking at these photos. Some of the photos were positioned in a way where they kind of had to tilt their heads. A few of them were taking notes.
But also, Nancy, Casey Anthony`s behavior -- we`ve heard that she was looking down, but also, her attorneys at her table put up barriers around the monitors that were next to her. So the one to her right, there was a laptop computer that was blocking her view that way. And the one to her left, there was a notebook that was blocking her view to that one.
And when Casey Anthony did become agitated or upset, you did see her attorneys patting her on the back and trying to comfort her.
GRACE: Out to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author joining us from L.A. Bethany, why is it that the discussion of her hair, matted clumps of light brown hair, some of it stuck in duct tape -- why did that cause -- you could -- there was audible, Oh, in court when that came out. What about the hair was so disturbing?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: I think there`s something about Caylee`s remains being in the dirt, as you described, dirtied and all the flesh gone, that the reality really sunk in for the jurors.
And I think the reality sank in for Casey, too, because, you know, Nancy, sociopaths can love. They don`t love like you and I love, but they love in a very thin way, and that`s what we`re seeing, the regret and the loss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I can feel it. It`s coming. It`s getting closer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey was an unfit mother.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The mother of a missing child.
CASEY ANTHONY: I know in my heart she`s not far.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s out there somewhere. Her rotten body is starting to decompose.
CASEY ANTHONY: We`re going to get our little girl back, and she`s going to be just as she was.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We found a human skull.
911 OPERATOR: Oh, my gosh. What`s the location?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Caylee Anthony area, right by the (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: Oh!
CASEY ANTHONY: She`s not far. I can feel it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I walked over to it. I stood over the skull, looked at it, and we left the area right away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) you lie (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is this item?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That would be the front of the skull with duct tape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) you lie about it (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you recognize this photo to be?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the skull with the hair and the tape.
CASEY ANTHONY: Mommy loves her very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) never, ever, ever, ever, ever goes away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live at the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial against tot mom, Casey Anthony, in the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee.
What a day in the courtroom. A hush fell over the entire courtroom as photo evidence of little Caylee`s burial scene came in, tot mom apparently dry heaving, holding her head down in her hands and abruptly leaving the courtroom. Court was canceled for the day. And at this hour, tot mom apparently in sick bay.
We are taking your calls live. Out to Kim in California. Hi, Kim. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has the state of Florida tested the hair on Caylee`s skull to the one hair that they found decomposing in Casey`s trunk?
GRACE: To Jean Casarez. Jean, what do we know?
CASAREZ: From what we know in the trial testimony so far, no, the hair examiner did not. But Nancy, it was also wet. The Winnie-the-Pooh blanket was so wet.
And all I kept thinking about in that courtroom was you, Nancy, because almost three years ago, you got the discovery. You read the discovery, and you told your viewing audience that Caylee was thrown away like trash. And that`s what the jury learned today.
GRACE: You know, Jean, I keep thinking about that scene. And I don`t think it`s been brought up yet in court, but Tropical Storm Fay came through, which I believe delayed the discovery of little Caylee. And all this time, imagine, if, in fact, tot mom is guilty, her there in the Anthony home, just 15 houses away from Caylee`s body as the water got higher and higher and higher, leaving Caylee`s bones, her clothes to just float around, and then come back down in that mud and the vines and the weeds and sit there.
CASAREZ: And everything was so wet when it was found. Nancy, the skull glistened with moisture. And when the jury first saw this skull, they were taken back. They were -- I think they lost their breath for a moment as they stared in their monitors right there in the jury box.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: User at the time had the Google search engine up, typed in "how to make chloroform"?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. "How to make chloroform" spelled correctly, the words "neck breaking," with a space in between.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We walked back to the back yard with Bones (ph) on lead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I focused on the skull and the garbage bag that was next to it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a trash bag.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then the skull dropped out with hair around it and duct tape across the mouth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Neck breaking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walked over to it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I stood over the skull.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The person that found it may have kicked it.
CASEY ANTHONY: They come in here attacking me. They`re not going to (EXPLETIVE DELETED). Sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Embedded in the vines.
CASEY ANTHONY: Oh!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The words "neck breaking" with a space in between.
CASEY ANTHONY: Sickening.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Found over the mouth of the child`s skull.
CASEY ANTHONY: Stop it!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to recess for the day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live here at the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for murder one in the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl.
And today, what a day, tot mom apparently dry heaving into her hand, crying, holding her head down, leaving the courtroom abruptly. Court was canceled. She`s in sick bay right now.
To Heather Walsh-Haney, forensic anthropologist, joining us -- anthropologist at Florida Gulf Coast University. Heather, you have examined all of this. You are familiar with the testimony. What does all of this mean to you as an anthropologist, the way that Caylee`s bones were found?
HEATHER WALSH-HANEY, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST: This means to me that there was unceremonious disposition of little Caylee`s remains. There`s no question to me that this case is a homicide.
Watching Caylee -- Casey Anthony`s expressions in court today reminded me of some information that my mentor had given me when he was testifying in the Gainesville murders. And he had said at court that when he was going to present Danny Rollins with pictures or possible remains of the victims, Danny Rollins stood up with counsel, left the courtroom and immediately changed his verdict (SIC) to guilty.
I am struck today by Casey`s behavior, and it caused me to remember Dr. Maples`s (ph) words to me about the Danny Rollins case. I see many similarities in behavior.
GRACE: When you say the unceremonious disposition, what do you mean by that, Heather Walsh-Haney?
WALSH-HANEY: I mean that she was discarded, as you said earlier, like trash. She wasn`t hidden, wrapped in a beautiful blanket (INAUDIBLE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I referenced the car smell, she said, And two dead squirrels crawled up under the hood of the car and they died in there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you immediately recognize the odor that was emanating from the piece of carpet in the can?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Human decomposition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She killed an innocent angel baby.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Did you kill Caylee?
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: County Utilities Emergency dispatch, we found a human skull.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seemed to be embedded in the vines. Just a little bit below or touching the eye socket.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know what time (INAUDIBLE)?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: I lied.
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: It was the password that Casey had.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Casey Anthony`s computer records do researched how to make chloroform.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: And this is all they`ve got?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many times was that site visited?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eighty-four times.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just so she could go out and be a party girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is ridiculous.
L. ANTHONY: She was scared, and she didn`t know what to do.
CINDY ANTHONY: You can`t be afraid, Casey, of anybody.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m absolutely petrified.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A little bit of hair.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Human bones. Mummified muscle.
CASEY ANTHONY: Absolutely petrified. It`s sickening. It`s disgusting. People really need to get a life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she tell you who did create this password?
L. ANTHONY: She told me.
CASEY ANTHONY: I lied.
L. ANTHONY: Her explanation was that from the date Caylee was taken from her.
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey, we have to find her before her 3rd birthday.
L. ANTHONY: Until her -- until Caylee`s birthday on August 9th. That there were 55 calendar days within that period of time. Her whole belief that she was going to get her back on that date.
I`m a spiteful bitch.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: It all came home to roost today. The big swirl surrounding this trial of tot mom Casey Anthony on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl.
The lies, the party pictures, the sleepovers at the boyfriend, the tattoos, the drunken nights out, the hot body contest. The accidental drowning theory. Blah, blah, blah. The BS. It all stopped today in court when graphic photos of little Caylee`s remains, her skeleton, this beautiful little girl`s skeleton found strewn around in filthy trash was shown to not only a packed courtroom but to a jury.
For those of you just joining us, to Michael Christian, what exactly did the jury see today?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, "IN SESSION": They saw photographs of Caylee Anthony`s remains as they were found on December 11th, 2008, Nancy.
They saw photographs of the remains at the scene. You can see that there`s plant material over this skull. You can see hair on top of the skull and matted to one side. You can see duct tape.
And then in the afternoon they saw much more detailed photographs of this evidence after it was taken to the morgue and photographed there. And in those photos, you really get the sense that this is a skull that belongs to a little human being. You can see little eye sockets. You can see little teeth.
And you can see duct tape on the front over the mouth area and also in the matted hair along the left side of the skull.
GRACE: You know when you said teeth, it reminds me of something that I heard that Cindy Anthony said that in Caylee`s life, she would count little Caylee`s teeth as she got each tooth in. She loved her so much.
And that, in fact, for so long, she refused to believe that this was Caylee`s body. Her remains. Because she thought Caylee had, I believe, she said, 18 or 20 teeth and the remains had a couple more than that.
CHRISTIAN: Yes, you know, it`s interesting --
GRACE: I`m so grateful to heavens she was not in court today to hear all this, Michael.
CHRISTIAN: Yes. Yes, it`s fascinating, too, Nancy, because you couldn`t really see the teeth if the lower jaw bone, the mandible, was present. Now the mandible was present on these remains. It was still attached. That`s very unusual.
GRACE: Back to Heather Walsh-Haney, forensic anthropologist, Florida Gulf Coast University.
We got cut off as we went to break last segment. You said you observed Caylee`s remains, her body unceremoniously -- the unceremonious disposition of Caylee`s remains. What did you mean by that?
HEATHER WALSH-HANEY, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST, FLORIDA GULF COAST UNIVERSITY: By that I mean she wasn`t legally buried. It wasn`t a religious burial. Rather she was put in garbage, as you`ve said. She was put in a pet cemetery. She was left to decompose out in the environment.
That in itself is suspicious and typically indicates a homicide.
GRACE: Let`s go to Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation, who endured similar testimony after the murder of his little girl Polly.
Marc, George and Cindy Anthony chose not to be in court today. Thoughts?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, you know, there`s an old axiom, Nancy, that a picture is worth a thousand words. And everything leading up to this could be looked upon in the context only of a little girl who had big, beautiful eyes and a smile that lit up a room.
But the evidence that was shown today shows a very different Caylee Anthony. It shows what happens after somebody degrades her and punishes her and tortures her and murders her and then discards her.
And that`s why people`s mouths were open, and that`s why George and Cindy and Lee left the room because that`s not the little Caylee they loved. They loved the little Caylee with the big, bright smile and the big, beautiful eyes.
And just in our case -- the very exact time in our case when they showed the graphic pictures of Polly`s remains, I and my family had to get up and leave the courtroom for the first and only time during the entire trial.
GRACE: You know, Marc, I recall after my fiance was murdered many years ago, I could not even go -- I went, but I could not go into the room with his casket for the viewing. I just did not want to see that knowing that he would have been doctored up. He`d been shot in the face and head. And I just -- at that time, could not go.
And I wonder if the Anthonys have ever had to look at these photos.
KLAAS: No.
GRACE: Or go through that.
KLAAS: No. No, I don`t believe so.
GRACE: Very quickly, to CW -- I hope you`re right, Marc.
CW Jensen, retired Portland Police captain, what does this evidence mean to you, CW?
CW JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: Well, Nancy, as I look at this case and all of the stuff, the computer evidence, the dumping, the duct tape, the not reporting the child missing, all these things -- I mean there is so much evidence.
I almost shook my head today as I was listening to you talk thinking, how did this -- how did this defense attorney and this criminal come up with this thing? I mean, she is so obviously guilty and she`s done so many things, and they have so much evidence that I hope that the jury is listening to this and taking it all in.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us from Orlando, Thomas Luca, former lawyer for Lee Anthony. Pete Odom, defense attorney Atlanta. Renee Rockwell, attorney Atlanta.
Renee, what do you do as a defense attorney with evidence like this?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, Nancy, you just -- if you could turn back the hands of time, this is the reason why you don`t ever talk. You don`t talk on tape. You don`t talk to the police. You don`t tell stories.
You just sit there and try to attack it and say, it doesn`t mean that you did it. It doesn`t mean that she was on the computer. Prove it. But then you have to deal with all these stories that she told.
GRACE: What about it, Peter Odom?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I think ultimately this case is about trying to save Casey Anthony`s life. I mean the picture that`s being painted is becoming clearer and clearer.
Today was pretty devastating for the defense. They are trying to attack it around the edges but ultimately, what I think they are really looking at is probably a conviction. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt on murder one and try to save her life from the death penalty. That`s what I`d be doing as a defense attorney.
GRACE: To Thomas Luca -- yes. Well, put.
Thomas Luca, Orlando attorney. Thomas, Odom just says that this trial is about saving tot mom`s life.
I think the trial is about seeking justice. What do you think?
THOMAS LUCA, FORMER ATTORNEY TO LEE ANTHONY: It is about --
GRACE: And I noticed your former client Lee Anthony has turned totally gray in the time since Caylee went missing. He`s completely gray on the top. Salt and pepper.
LUCA: It`s been a long three years for Mr. Anthony. I can say that. And it`s been actually a long two weeks for him on the stand having to recount all of these stories that his sister told him that her own defense attorney has now admitted were complete fabrications from the beginning. Complete lies. And yet now, here we are trying to defend her those lies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you see any references anywhere on the computer to Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez prior to the morning of July 16th of 2008?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I did not.
CINDY ANTHONY: She`s already tried and convicted.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: I wouldn`t wish this on anyone.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zenaida took your child without your permission and hasn`t returned her?
CASEY ANTHONY: She`s the last person that I`ve seen with my daughter.
L. ANTHONY: Zanny, it was her nanny.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A computer to Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez prior to the morning of July 16th of 2008.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I did not.
ZENAIDA GONZALEZ, WOMAN WHOSE NAME CASEY ANTHONY USED AS CAYLEE`S NANNY: I really want my name cleared.
CINDY ANTHONY: They`ve taken her.
L. ANTHONY: Taken Caylee from her to teach her a lesson.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Google Web searches also referencing the name Zenaida.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you looking for her?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
GONZALEZ: I just really want justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s a liar. There is no person. Let`s lay that one out again.
CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, my god. I`m such a good liar.
GONZALEZ: She made me up.
CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t care what I have to do. When I told her I would lie, I would steal, I would do whatever by any means.
GONZALEZ: I do see it. I see how every day it`s a different lie.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are here outside the Orlando courthouse bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom Casey Anthony and the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl Caylee.
Today in court, you could have heard a pin drop as the jury and court watchers saw the crime scene for the first time and saw little Caylee`s skull. Her hair matted in duct tape. Items from her room back home strewn around like trash.
We are taking your calls.
Out to Dr. Zhongxue Hua, medical examiner, Union County. Dr. Hua, thank you for being with us.
Dr. Hua, how carefully must the medical examiner handle this evidence? Because I mean, even, for instance, the positioning of the duct tape around the skull or the way it was found at the scene or the way the hair was clumped in the duct tape is crucial. Any movement could destroy evidence.
DR. ZHONGXUE HUA, UNION COUNTY, NJ, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Yes. I mean, the main thing we have to do is layer what photograph documentation from different direction outside, remove the first layer, photograph again, collect all the microscopic evidence, possible fingerprints, possible DNA, possible hair example. You have to layer while photograph, fully documented to proceed.
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad. Why is the position of the duct tape so crucial?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, the position of the duct tape shows that it was intentionally placed there and that it was holding the -- one of the experts today actually testified that the duct tape was actually holding that mandible in place.
That usually you don`t even find a skull and a mandible together. They are usually detached. But in this case, the pieces seemed to be intentionally placed over the nose and mouth of Caylee so she couldn`t breathe.
GRACE: To Dr. Hua, show us, direct us with your face as to where the mandible is and why is it, in a nutshell, that the mandible is not usually still attached?
HUA: Mandible usually -- as a lay term, it`s more like lower jaw area. In contrast to upper jaw. When you put a duct tape in between, it pretty much cover your nose and mouth area. A normal person, mandible, the upper and lower jaw was really connected by soft tissue.
GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls. Out to Memory in California.
Hi, dear. What`s your question?
MEMORY, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi. Great to talk to you, Nancy. I love your show a lot. I just wanted to say two things.
If I was the prosecution or anybody on that team, I would not at all call this the skull. Because I would never let them forget that this is -- was a living human being. A beautiful little girl. I would say, you know, little Caylee`s remains, her skull and things like that.
But my question to you was -- I really wanted to know what your opinion is on this. Why do you think that when the first boyfriend, the one that testified on the stand that Casey had come over and the only time he ever saw her having any trouble with the little girl was when she was putting her to sleep?
No one even seemed to care about that and, you know, with all the testimony of the -- you know making of the drug to put her to sleep and everything, I`m thinking this seems like a big issue.
I mean, they should have jumped all over that and say how did she get upset with the little girl? What did you see her do? You know?
GRACE: You know what, Memory, that`s an excellent question. I would liked to have seen more of that myself. But as you know -- unleash the lawyers. Thomas Luca, Peter Odom, Renee Rockwell.
A lot of times, Renee, it`s that last question that gets you into trouble. The one question too many.
ROCKWELL: Exactly.
GRACE: For all I know, they maybe didn`t like the answer. Maybe his answer was not what they had wanted it to be and then the defense didn`t follow up either. So very often you don`t delve into something because either the witness doesn`t remember, they`ll make a mess out of it or you don`t like the answer.
ROCKWELL: Or, Nancy, you don`t ask the question if you don`t know what the answer is. Don`t forget, these are the prosecution`s witness.
GRACE: Yes.
ROCKWELL: You always need to know what the answer is going to be before you ask the question.
GRACE: And to Peter Odom, what would you have done in response to these photos? And what do you make of tot mom, the dry heaving? I notice nothing came out. It was kind of like -- what would you -- would you have cut court short and left for the day?
ODOM: Well, I don`t know that this was Baez`s decision. I think this was probably just something that Casey pulled off herself. I think the defense is doing really what it can do with these photographs which is to mince around the edges. They are very devastating pieces of evidence, though.
GRACE: To Thomas Luca, former lawyer for Lee Anthony. Well-known defense attorney in the Orlando area.
Thomas, I noticed that there was no eye contact, no recognition, nothing between Lee Anthony and tot mom today when Lee came back in and out of the courtroom. Why?
LUCA: Well, Nancy, that`s up for speculation, but I think as people have been starting to realize, this case is really turning against Casey. The family is always, in the past, been very in their corner, supporting her all the way.
Now they are confronted with these allegations of themselves, the admission of lies on top of lies, on top of lies, and then now finally this confrontation of -- you know, having to see or be knowing that little Caylee`s remains are going to be shown to a bunch of strangers, that`s got to just be almost overwhelming at this point.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session" in court today.
Jean, a lot of items are going to match up to being in Caylee`s nursery. Items from the home. What are those items?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, first of all, the cloth laundry bag. Jurors saw Whitney Design. They haven`t heard the testimony yet. But a cloth laundry bag with the same manufacturing name and the same size dimensions will be found in the home.
Also the blanket. The blanket that didn`t even look like a blanket, it was brown, and it was bronze, and it was wet. That`s Winnie the Pooh. Her entire bedroom was done up in Winnie the Pooh.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Welcome back. To Ellie Jostad, what are the other items we`re going to hear about that were surrounding Caylee`s remains?
JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, we also know that investigators found a Gatorade bottle at the scene. Inside was a syringe that contained traces of chloroform.
Also, Nancy, I think we`re going to find out that the clothing they found, those shorts, also letters from a T-shirt match up with clothing we see Caylee wearing in pictures.
GRACE: And of course, as Jean mentioned, the Winnie the Pooh blanket from her room.
Everyone, very quickly, Wesley Glen, a Methodist home, a loving home for the handicap, desperately trying to raise funds to help residents and their families. Even though the state funding has been slashed.
Wesley Glen, keeping handicapped residents there in the home, residents that can no longer afford to stay there. The home now sinking into the red but still refusing to uproot residents or kick them out.
Can you help? Go to wesleyglenministries.com. Click on "Capital Campaign." Let`s help the handicapped that need us.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Loving our fathers and give them respect, what we are -- but when we say, I`m a Father`s Day baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Late when I was little, to the ball games. He`s a good dad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was a daddy`s girl. I kind of got what I wanted. I can fish, I can bait my own hook, and scale clean the fish. My dad taught me. My grandfathers.
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GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Marine Corporal Michael Estrella, 20, Hemet, California, killed Iraq. Awarded Purple Heart, Combat Action, National Defense Service Medal, Hawaii`s Medal of Honor.
Loved trips to San Philippe to ride quads with family. Paint ball. Favorite snack, Twinkies. Leaves behind parents Maria and Francisco, brothers Nathan, Francisco, Jr., Frank Sisters Ashley, Jessica, Sasha.
Michael Estrella, American hero.
Thank you to our guests but especially to you.
And a special happy birthday to Jan. She put herself through school earning a master`s degree while raising two boys, Dan and Sam. Spent a lifetime in education, touching lives of more people than she will ever know. There we are together in Times Square with my brother, Mack.
Happy birthday, Jan.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night. We will be live here at the Orlando courthouse seeking in our own way justice for Caylee.
I`ll see you then, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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