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Casey Anthony Defense Brings Up Paternity Tests on George and Lee

Aired June 16, 2011 - 20:00:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the case of 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct- taping, placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.

The murder trial of tot mom Casey Anthony under way. Tot mom`s lawyer tells a stunned courtroom she`s got nothing to do with Caylee`s death, but that her own father, ex-cop George Anthony, shows up with Caylee`s dead body, then he hides it, leaving it to rot. Tot mom also claims father George and brother Lee both sexually molest her. Tot mom gets a sexy tattoo in the days after Caylee goes missing, and then throws a pizza party at the tattoo parlor.

Bombshell tonight. Three years to the date, nearly to the hour Caylee goes missing, the defense kicks off with a torpedo in court, revealing to a stunned jury father George and brother Lee actually were tested for Caylee`s paternity. The FBI tested George and Lee as paternal suspects for Caylee`s father. Will this add fuel to the fire both George and brother Lee molested her?

This as we learn mystery DNA on duct tape wrapped around Caylee`s face. And we find a mystery here, found on the shovel tot mom borrowed. This as father George calls 911 in the dark of the night on the eve before the defense begins, George reporting an intruder at the Anthony home.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know who the father of Caylee...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not know with 100...


Casey Anthony, Caylee`s MOTHER: If they have nothing positive to say.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you asked to conduct a paternity test for Lee Anthony?

Casey Anthony: They need to shut up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Being the potential father of Caylee Anthony?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Buccal samples have been submitted to the laboratory.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is the relevance of that, other than to suggest to the jury that there`s some information out there that this jury has not heard?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d never ask that question.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somehow, that bit of DNA could have been amplified, could have been this, could have been that.

GEORGE Anthony: Her and my son have different kind of communication.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is -- that is part of the work she`s done in this case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is not the question counsel asked, and he darn well knows it. If he wants to ask this witness whether Mr. Lee Anthony is excluded as the father of Caylee, that`s fine. That`s in the report. More power to him. But that wasn`t the question he asked. That wasn`t the implication he was trying to leave with this jury.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Ashton (ph) -- Mr. Ashton, calm down, OK? Calm down.


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Three years to the date, nearly to the hour Caylee goes missing, the defense kicks off with a torpedo in court, revealing to a stunned jury father George and brother Lee were actually tested for Caylee`s paternity.


Casey Anthony: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wanted to ask you if you conducted what would be considered a paternity test...

Casey Anthony: It`s sickening. It`s disgusting. And people really need to get a life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To determine if Lee Anthony was the biological father of Caylee Anthony.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The stain that was in the trunk of the car, all you know is it`s not blood.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Located on the lower half of the space.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did have somebody call us and tell us (INAUDIBLE) shovel was borrowed (INAUDIBLE) day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The shovel was examined for the presence of blood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) close proximity to the child being missing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Significance of the lack of blood on a particular crime scene. If a method is used to kill someone that doesn`t involve bloodshed, then the absence of blood doesn`t really say it didn`t happen, correct?


LEE Anthony: CMA, I miss you! I love you. CMA, I am so proud of you. I hope you`re proud of me, too. I need you to know that I will never forget the promise that I made to you.


GRACE: Brother Lee Anthony speaking at Caylee`s memorial, sending a coded message to his sister there behind bars. Here she is in court today. My, how things have changed, tot mom now going after her brother and father relentlessly, not only claiming father George is responsible for the crime scene where Caylee`s body was found, we learn today basically on a trash dump, but that both he and brother Lee sexually molested her.

And just dousing (SIC) fuel on the flame started by the defense in opening statement today, Jose Baez, lead defense attorney -- I guess he thought it was pretty slick, but he got out a question. The judge said, Hey, it`s almost lunchtime. Are you ready to quit? He goes, Oh, no. I`ve just got a couple more questions. The jury goes to lunch with this ringing in their ear, asking whether Lee and George Anthony were tested as potential fathers for little Caylee, thus suggesting not only molestation but incest, as well.

To Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." Jean, what happened?

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": You know, Nancy, I was in that courtroom, and it was, let`s say, a fairly normal day for day one of the defense. Was there DNA in the trunk? No. Was there DNA on the duct tape? No. They did not know. Was there DNA on the shovel? No.

And then at the stroke of noon, Nancy, the FBI analyst was on the stand, expert in DNA -- Were you asked to do a paternity test on Lee Anthony, if he would be the father of Caylee? I think everyone just stopped. I saw people sort of look at each other. People were stunned. There was no objection. Jeff Ashton (ph) just asked for a sidebar. And then the judge ordered the lunch hour.

GRACE: And then when that jury went to lunch, what happened, Jean?

CASAREZ: Well, then there was argument in open court. And Jeff Ashton -- I think he is so afraid that the defense is not going to proceed in good faith in their defense case. That`s what he is so concerned about. And he was on the defensive saying that was not a question asked in good faith because if you were asked to do a test, that`s not relevant. Only the test results are relevant in this case.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. And also, out to Natisha Lance, also joining us at the courthouse. We are live outside the Orlando, Orange County, courthouse bringing you the very latest in the trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl.

All along, we have been told -- and many of us have driven by where Caylee`s body was found -- it was a makeshift pet cemetery just 15 houses from the Anthonys` home. Every night, tot mom, if guilty, would have been falling asleep on her pillow, knowing her daughter`s body was rotting just 15 houses down.

We also learned today that that makeshift pet cemetery had basically been turned into a dump in a densely wooded area. That is where Caylee`s little body was left to rot.

To Natisha Lance. In the middle of all this, we find out that father George has to call 911 last night, saying he feared an intruder was trying to get into the house?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Well, what happened is that Leonard Padilla apparently was in front of the Anthony home with a news crew filming a segment for a show. Apparently, the door was knocked on. Nobody answered the door, but George Anthony ended up calling 911 for the loitering of Leonard Padilla, and Leonard Padilla was told that there was a restraining order against him.

I was able to speak to Mark Lippman today, the attorney for George and Cindy Anthony. He says there is no restraining order. However, he is going to pursue further action against Leonard Padilla because now this is harassment.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. We are taking your calls live. Joining us tonight, in the courthouse all day long, Bill Sheaffer, former prosecutor, WFTV legal analyst, Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta, Renee Rockwell, defense attorney, Atlanta.

First to you, Bill Sheaffer. What was Baez trying to do, other than suggest to the jury the state would never have asked for a DNA paternity test on George and Lee if they hadn`t thought incest had occurred?

BILL SHEAFFER, WFTV LEGAL ANALYST: That`s exactly the impression that Baez wanted to leave in the jurors` mind. That`s why Ashton got so upset. Look, that`s not going to be enough. He, Baez, has to present some substantial evidence on these allegations.

His defense fell flat in light of his bombastic opening. The courthouse was jammed today. The courthouse watchers, as well as this jury, expected him to start presenting evidence on his theory that he advanced in his opening. He hasn`t done it. And all he`s doing now is falling back on the bread and butter of criminal defense attorneys, and that`s trying to raise some reasonable doubt from the lack of evidence.

GRACE: You know -- to you, Peter Odom -- I often see when the defense really has nothing -- and look, it`s not the lawyer`s fault. Don`t you and Renee feel bad about it? But you got a client who`s guilty. So What are you going to do? You can`t make up witnesses. And I`ve seen them very often put on their witness list the very same witnesses that I called in my case in chief! So they call them as their witnesses and question them further, as if they`re really putting up a case.

Now, here what we`ve got is the inference by the defense that the state suspected George and Lee Anthony of having sex with tot mom, their daughter and sister respectively, when what it really is, in my mind, is the state, after tot mom claims she`s been molested, excludes them from paternity. That`s why they ran it, to clear up the question.

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, maybe. Maybe not. I mean, I`m giving Jose Baez more credit than the other attorney on board. He`s doing what good defense attorneys do. He`s planting a seed.

Now, Nancy, remember, when Jose Baez first talked about this molestation, everybody`s jaw dropped and everybody talked about it as if it were the most ridiculous thing that anybody had ever heard of. Well, guess what? The FBI apparently had the same suspicions that they wanted to eliminate.

Now, the defense case has just started. Jose Baez might well have substantive evidence of this molestation to follow up on. That may be in the form of Casey Anthony`s testimony.

GRACE: Right. To you, Renee Rockwell. Let`s just hold back before we say anything defamatory against George or Lee. You want to -- the FBI can have suspicions, as Peter Odom just said. The local prosecutor said, Hey, can you also run this test while you`re running other tests? Clearly, tot mom has proven herself to be a liar, Renee.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, exactly what Peter said. When you`re planting a seed -- first of all, all the state was doing was plugging some holes in that dam, right? But by planting the seed and making it so sensational at that very moment, the jury`s going to go to lunch and think about that the entire time.




GEORGE ANTHONY: Just leave us alone.

CASEY ANTHONY: Casey Marie Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`d be standing by all of us.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) his secrets quiet (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: History of sexual abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very special bond.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family is incredibly dysfunctional.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mother and father failed to protect her as a child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we`re going to play this game, then I`m going to play it right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever sexually molested your daughter?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Both of those tests were negative for the presence of blood and semen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t imagine what would inspire her to lie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you love your daughter more than anything in the world?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no evidence whatsoever. None.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your mother will never forgive you.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to find the truth.

GEORGE ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) what`s happened to the neighborhood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look what you`ve done!


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gets harder and harder each day.


GRACE: Welcome back. We are live at the Orlando, Orange County, courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial against Casey Anthony, tot mom, in the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee.

Back to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." Over and over, until literally four spectators fell asleep and had to be asked to leave the courtroom, Baez just -- if the state thrilled the jury to death, Baez is boring them to death. Four people had to be asked to remove because they fell asleep because Baez kept asking over and over, Was there blood here, was there blood there, was there blood in this car, was there blood here, how about here in the trunk? No, there`s no blood. He could ask me once, and I could tell him. That`s not the defense theory or the state`s theory that there`s any bloodshed. What`s with the blood questions?

CASAREZ: Well, what is with the blood question is that if the body`s in the trunk, it continues to decompose. The fluids have to come out somewhere. That`s where he was going.

But Nancy, listen to this. Juror number four, that I saw in jury selection, who said that she finds it difficult to judge, who hardly took a note during the prosecution`s case and her notebook was by her side -- she had her notebook open before the defense began its case. Pen was in her hand. She started writing notes immediately, Nancy, that the defense started its case today.

GRACE: To Dr. Zhonghue Hua, Union County medical examiner, DNA expert. Dr. Hua, thank you for being with us. Just break it down for me. If this child died from asphyxiation from duct tape over her mouth and nose, or the overuse of chloroform, would she just spontaneously begin bleeding? I don`t think so.

DR. ZHONGHUE HUA, UNION COUNTY MEDICAL EXAMINER: No. And we die of asphyxia mainly due to the lack of oxygen to your brain. Eventually, you die. There`s no relationship with bleeding from the body at all.

GRACE: So Baez`s questions, Steve Helling with "People" magazine, were completely misplaced on either the defense or the state`s theory as to cause of death, Steve.

STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE` MAGAZINE: Well, there was a lot of scratching of heads. Everybody wasn`t sure where he was going, what he was trying to get across. And you could see it in the jurors, too. They didn`t know, either.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three pieces of duct tape.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Duct tape over her mouth and jaw.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There has been no evidence presented that Casey Marie Anthony used duct tape for any purpose, that she used chloroform ever.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) I guess you are, sir.


CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: You`re not telling me where she`s at.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Shut up! I`m talking. I am talking!

CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she`s at! Are you kidding me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judge, the shovel is in evidence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Ashton, calm down.

CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, my God. Calling you guys, a waste, a huge waste.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is he upset?

CINDY ANTHONY: This is why he`s upset. Back off, OK? Please, before I lose my husband.

GEORGE ANTHONY: You`re trying to confuse me. Treat me with a little bit of respect.



GRACE: We are live at the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest against tot mom Casey Anthony in the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl.

Out to the lines. Susie in Texas. Hi, Susie. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, at one point, Casey Anthony got out on bond. Is there a possibility that she had had the body somewhere else and moved it to the location, or she got someone while she`s out on bond to do this for her?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Susie in Texas, it is entirely possible. In fact, I believe it`s the state`s theory that the car trunk and the final resting place where her body was found were not tot mom`s first choice. I think that she was hidden or buried somewhere else.

And we saw that played out in the state`s case, where they brought on evidence of coffin flies in tot mom`s trunk, swarming her trunk, as compared to blowflies. Significance? Blowflies are interested in a decomposing body at the initial stages following death. Then they get disinterested and go away. Then in come coffin flies. Her body was at the stage where coffin flies were interested when that body was put in the trunk, according to the state.

Also, we know, Susie in Texas, that a cadaver dog hit in the back yard in the dirt, which suggests she may have been hidden somewhere in the back yard.

Back to the lines. Meredith in Alabama. Hi, Meredith. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes. By all accounts, Caylee was a very bright and verbal child. Could tot mom have killed her because she was either afraid Caylee might start verbalizing to others such things as, No nanny, No Zanny, if Cindy asked Caylee? And also, if tot mom was using chloroform on a regular basis, Caylee, becoming verbal, might start saying, No, Mommy -- No, Mommy, no sleepy, no trunk.

GRACE: You know, Meredith, that`s a great idea! What about it, Dr. Bethany Marshall?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: I think that`s a brilliant question. But Meredith, I think it`s much more simple than that. I think there were two motivations. I think Casey Anthony wanted boyfriends and a sexual life, and that was it.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is not any evidence of anything other than a caring, loving mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But that is all subject to change.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am the dumbest person and the worst mother.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that a Google search?



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The words "neck breaking" with a space in between.

CASEY ANTHONY: The worst, catastrophic thing that could happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A visit to (INAUDIBLE) or ending in inhalation.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Anthony is ill.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Head,-underscore, injury.

CASEY ANTHONY: The potential of Caylee getting hurt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ruptured spleen.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lawyers and the judge huddled for a sidebar.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hand-to-hand combat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judge Perry -- Then you all lied to me. Nason (ph) -- No. The judge -- Yes, the hell you did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A caring, loving mother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search term of "internal bleeding."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The judge -- I will take it that I cannot trust one thing your side says anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who did this car belong to?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tony -- Anthony Lazzaro, Tony Lazzaro. I inspected the vehicle exterior and interior, and also I checked the trunk area, and I observed some stain on the carpet. Before that, I used (INAUDIBLE) light sources, gave me a possible (ph) reaction for stain. Next step is I use a (INAUDIBLE) glove test in that area, and the result was negative.


GRACE: Welcome back. We are live outside the Orlando, Orange County, courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for the murder of her 2-year-old little girl pictured there, Caylee.

We hear today a description of where Caylee`s little body was left, triple-bagged like she`s trash. It had degenerated from being a makeshift pet cemetery to a trash dump there in a densely wooded area. That`s where this little girl`s body was left to rot.

Not only that, Jose Baez, in a stunning if possibly objectionable move, suggests to the jury that the FBI suspected George Anthony and Lee Anthony as the father of Caylee, pointing the finger toward molestation or incest at these two.

We are taking your calls live, but first to Jean Casarez. Let`s go back to the mystery witness by the defense, listed on the defense witness list, 52-year-old Vasco Thompson. He`s a con, did eight years behind bars, 30 years of probation on burglary, had other arrests, as well. Why? What happened to him? Why wasn`t he the defense`s first witness?

CASAREZ: I think the defense has to find him first. I don`t think he`s anywhere to be found. Once they find him, they`ve got to do a deposition on him to see if there`s anything relevant to come into court with. And then the judge has to allow him to testify.

GRACE: Well, we also know, Steve Helling, writer for "People" magazine, what Vasco Thompson is all about. He is a felon, whose name popped up four to five times on George Anthony`s, we believe, cell phone. We don`t know who called who, we just know his number popped up.

What does that mean to me? Absolutely nothing. For all I know, he was trimming trees or the Roto-Rooter guy or the electricity guy. I don`t know who he is of what he`s doing in life now. I don`t know if it was a mistake phone call. What do we know, Steve Helling?

HELLING: Well, that`s just the thing, we don`t know what the nature of any contact that there may or may not have been was. And so the importance of that is knowing that -- you know, that`s one of those things that has a lot of style and a lot of flash, you know, that maybe George was talking to this ex-con. But the substance could be very boring. It could have been nothing. It could have been -- like you said, he could have been doing the yardwork. We just don`t know yet.

GRACE: To Ellie Jostad. What do we know about the digits of those phone numbers being reversed to other numbers George was dialing regarding a security job?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Well, there are reports that the number for this guy, Vasco Thompson -- his phone number is very similar to the phone number of a business where George Anthony had just started a new job as a security guard. So the theory is that perhaps he was calling or even sending texts to this number, not realizing it was the wrong number.

GRACE: OK. Jose Baez -- please put that up. I want to hear that direct and cross-examination of the con, Vasco Thompson. And it`s all -- to you, Dr. Bethany Marshall -- part of the defense effort to target or smear George Anthony, all right? Now, we`ve seen the other day, when Cindy Anthony comes down off the stand, she looks right at tot mom and says -- and tot mom goes -- now we see the way she`s treating her father.

They`re going to claim, one, he was using this convicted felon to do his dirty work, to hide the body or get rid of the body or move the body. Number two, they`re bringing on a so-called other woman that claims she had an affair with George -- not true -- that he told her Caylee`s death was an accident that snowballed out of control. They`re going to bring on one of the protesters that he pushed back. They`re trying to get George`s medical records to say he was imbalanced. They`re going to use his alleged suicide attempt when he was distraught over Caylee`s death, over her murder.

They are going to come down on George Anthony. It`s a matter of time.

MARSHALL: Yes, and you know what? How much are these jurors going to be able to take of that? It`s such an attack on the parents. And what if there`s a juror who has a child who`s troubled? Almost every parent knows what it`s like to have a troubled child who maligns them, and those juror are not going to like this attack on George and Cindy.

GRACE: To Paul Penzone, former sergeant with the Phoenix PD, child advocate. We learned today just the squalid scene where Caylee`s body was left to rot, and that was very damning to me, that someone would leave their child there, they could go back home and put their head on the pillow and go to sleep, knowing their precious little girl is laying out there in the trash.

PAUL PENZONE, FMR. SGT., PHOENIX PD: And I think there`s a lot of consistency. When you`ve heard the behaviors that her mother displayed, how narcissistic she was, and that life was really about what she wanted, it`s consistent with why this would have occurred and why the outcome would be to treat something so precious so poorly. So for me, I look at that, it validates a lot of her behaviors prior to and even after her daughter went missing.

GRACE: Also -- back to you, Natisha Lance, in court today. We also - - not only did Baez go on and on and on asking all the witnesses, Was there blood, was there blood -- Baez, there`s no blood! You yourself claim she died by accident in the swimming pool. The state`s theory is that she was asphyxiated. So there`s not going to be any blood, OK? You can not spend eight hours of our time asking about blood.

But what did we learn about the fingerprints on the duct tape?

LANCE: Well, Nancy, we learned that Casey Anthony and Caylee Anthony could be excluded as fingerprints. And there was a DNA profile that was on that duct tape, on the silver side, as well as on the adhesive side. What we were able to find out through the prosecution when they came and did their cross is that profile belonged to an FBI lab technician who was examining it, trying to find further evidence of that heart-shaped sticker residue.


LANCE: Somehow...

GRACE: I got it. I got it!

LANCE: ... her DNA profile...

GRACE: It was the lab tech! That`s all you had to say, Natisha.

LANCE: Right.

GRACE: All you had to say was it belonged to a lab tech. There`s unknown mystery DNA on the duct tape around Caylee`s head. It wasn`t tot mom`s. It wasn`t Caylee`s. Panic ensued! So you`re telling me that it was only cleared up on cross-exam that the DNA belonged to one of the lab techs that analyzed the tape? Yes, no! That`s a yes/no question, Natisha!


GRACE: OK. Peter Odom, so to me, that`s Baez intentionally misleading this jury, trying to suggest somebody else -- there`s an unknown mystery person whose DNA is on the duct tape, when he knows all along it`s one of the crime lab techs that tested the tape!

ODOM: Well, Nancy, what -- the point is that it`s not his client. And that`s what he`s trying to do. And that`s what he`s done with witness after witness is just show that his client`s DNA is not on it.



CASEY ANTHONY: I`ll take this as far as I need to to prove my innocence, which I guess is my point in all of this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our system has a black eye on it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will hear stories about a family that is incredibly dysfunctional.

CASEY ANTHONY: Do me a favor. Get my brother back (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you asked to conduct a paternity test to for Lee Anthony as to Caylee (INAUDIBLE) being a potential father?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey told me that Lee attempted to have sex with her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no good faith basis for that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) relationships are coming under scrutiny in this trial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know if I can believe what you`re saying, you know?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The DNA obtained from specimen Q18-1.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey was raised to lie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she really do it only to better herself? Does she even just say white lies just to do it?



CASEY ANTHONY: Like I said, that none of this would have happened.


GRACE: Welcome back. We are live outside the Orange County, Orlando, courthouse, bringing you the latest in the case against tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her daughter, 2-year-old Caylee. And today, three years to the date Caylee last seen alive, the defense kicks off its case in court, defending Caylee`s own mother on murder charges.

We are taking your calls. Out to Yvonne in Illinois. Hi, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I have a comment. Hello?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just (INAUDIBLE) I`ve been following this incident (ph) for three years now. And in March, she had looked up neck breaking and all those different type of things for how to kill people. And I just -- and then she had commented that she was going to move into her parents` home with her friend. And I just think she didn`t get the job -- all of her job completed. I think she wanted to get rid of her daughter and her family members, and then she could collect everything and just live a happy, free life.

GRACE: You know, Yvonne in Illinois, that theory has been floated by a lot of people. In fact, you`re right.

Give it to me in a nutshell, Ellie Jostad. She did tell a lot of people that she was going to move into her family home and that her parents were going to move out. What, to the cemetery?

JOSTAD: Exactly. Her friend, Amy Huizinga, thought that Casey was going to take over the mortgage payments, they were going to move in and they were going to live there with Caylee.

GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers," weigh in on that theory.

MARSHALL: Well, I think that`s a very chilling possibility, and I think anything`s possible in this case. But I think she was also a big braggart and she wanted Amy Huizinga to think that her parents` house was her castle. And this provides a motivation for why she would have gotten rid of the little girl, as well. She didn`t want anything that would interfere with the life she wanted.

That`s why. She wanted to have sex with her boyfriend. She wanted an idealized life. She wanted the little girl out of the way. She wanted George and Cindy`s financial and psychological resources all for herself. But boy, if they were standing in her way, that`s a chilling thought that she might have gotten rid of them, as well.

GRACE: Back to the lawyers, Bill Sheaffer, Peter Odom, Renee Rockwell. Bill Sheaffer, I want your comment -- I got it from Peter Odom - - about Jose Baez knowing today -- tot mom`s defense lawyer -- knowing that the unknown mystery DNA on that duct tape around Caylee`s face and mouth belonged to, very simply, the lab tech that was handling the tape, that tested it.

But he didn`t bring that out. He wouldn`t bring that out. He left the impression with that jury at the end of his direct that there was an unknown person that put that tape on Caylee, Bill Sheaffer.

SHEAFFER: Look, I`ve seen Mr. Baez in every pretrial that`s been held in this case. I`ve read every deposition that`s been transcribed. I`ve watched every minute of testimony. Was there a purpose other than good faith, trying to raise reasonable doubt? I think an argument can be made that this was an attempt to do something sleazy, and that`s why Jeff Ashton got so upset out of the presence of the jury.

I would not put it past Mr. Baez to have a double purpose for this. I can`t give him the benefit of the doubt on this point. I think it was by design not just to say, Oh, my client`s DNA wasn`t found on this.

But I tell you what, Nancy. The thing about it is, is that he knows that what`s going to come back is that it was the forensic -- the forensic -- the forensic person`s DNA on there. So it`s like he makes these points, knowing that he`s going to be destroyed. But I think it was disingenuous.

GRACE: Exactly. To Renee Rockwell. And there`s a bigger issue because the truth did come out on the state`s cross-exam. Once you pull that stunt in front of a jury, the jury is not made up of a bunch of idiots, all right? Somebody, if not everyone in the jury box, is going to figure out what Baez did, and then when he makes a legitimate point, he`s going to have lost credibility.

ROCKWELL: Nancy, can I disagree with you and the other gentleman?

GRACE: Sure.

ROCKWELL: First of all, what he`s pointed out, Nancy, is that somebody is compromising the integrity of the investigation. How embarrassing is it to have a lab tech`s DNA on the evidence? That`s a big ringer (ph). I don`t think it`s a sleazy move at all. If he`s just looking at and if he`s just talking to one juror, juror number four, the one taking down all the notes, that`s all it`s going to take, Nancy, maybe to acquit her or at least to save her life.

GRACE: You know, Renee, I agree with you that it`s absolutely unacceptable for a lab tech, a scientist, to get their DNA on the evidence. It`s O.J. Simpson all over again. But here`s the deal. That`s not what Baez was arguing. Baez didn`t do that. That`s not the way he went at it. He didn`t go in it saying, Hey, guess what? The evidence compromised. We didn`t hear a word about it in opening statement, nothing. He wanted to leave the impression with that jury somebody else wrapped that duct tape around tot mom -- around Caylee`s nose, mouth and face.

And now you`ve just given him an argument for closing arguments that he didn`t already have thought of. Thanks, Renee! Out to the lines.

ROCKWELL: I`ll send him a bill.

GRACE: Teresa in New York. Hi, Teresa.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You have a wonderful show!

GRACE: Hi, Teresa. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Why wasn`t Leonard Padilla or Tim Miller called by the prosecution, since they had so much inside knowledge of her state of mind and demeanor when they were in her home? Thank you, Nancy.

GRACE: Hey, Teresa, thank you very much for your kind words. What about it, Jean Casarez?

CASAREZ: Leonard Padilla is not on the witness list for the prosecution or the defense. Tim Miller is. And you know what? There`s going to be a rebuttal case, we believe, for the prosecution. So stay tuned.

GRACE: You know what? Nobody`s really mentioned the rebuttal. The rebuttal is when the state, who has the burden of proof, rebuts the defense case. They can bring on additional witnesses and evidence following Jose Baez`s defense of tot mom. There can even be a sur-rebuttal, which is the defense rebuts the state`s rebuttal.

And isn`t it true, Steve Helling, that on that witness list that they could use for rebuttal is an inmate that claims tot mom told her she used chloroform?

HELLING: Yes. You know, there are so many people on that witness list that, you know, could be really damning to the defense. And we don`t know who they`re going to call. We`re just going to find out, as everybody else does.

GRACE: So Steve Helling, you`re saying just because the defense lists them doesn`t mean they`re going to call them.

HELLING: Exactly. That`s exactly what I`m saying. People who are listed aren`t always going to be called to the stand.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A picture tells a thousand words.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Bella vita" -- this Italian phrase translates to "beautiful life."


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something`s not right with this girl.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No stain was found.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The smell of decomposition is unique.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m so sorry that you have to go through this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are there cameras in all the rooms?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To this day, I believe everything that my sister tells me.

CINDY ANTHONY: How come she never got a chance to get the car?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were a few flies that flew out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The test for the presence of blood was negative.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) remains were found.

GEORGE ANTHONY: How dare you say that about my granddaughter!


GRACE: To Ellie Jostad. Ellie, wasn`t there someone, a witness on the state`s witness list that they could conceivably call in rebuttal to the defense, somebody behind bars that alleges tot mom told them she used chloroform on Caylee?

JOSTAD: Well, right, Nancy. There was a witness named Mya Dirkovic (ph). She`s in the Orange County jail. She claimed that Casey Anthony told her that she`d used chloroform. And she did a couple media interviews. She said that this is something that Casey told her.

GRACE: Very quickly, Peter Odom. That`s the last thing the state needs now is to put inmate up and ruin the whole case.

ODOM: Yes, the defense is looking for the slopover effect. They want this inmate`s evilness to slop over on George Anthony.

GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Michael Dickinson II, 26, Battle Creek, Michigan, killed Iraq, awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Meritorious Service Medal, Army Commendation, on a fourth tour. Also served Afghanistan and Kosovo, loved working out, video games, never met a stranger, helping his best friend, Jason, paralyzed in a motorcycle accident, dreamed of being a physician`s assistant and adopting his four stepchildren. Leaves behind mother, Vicky (ph), sisters Carmen (ph), Renee (ph), Michelle (ph), brother Darryl (ph), also serving the Army, widow Gloria (ph), daughter Abigail. Michael Dickinson II, American hero.

Thanks to you, but especially to our guests and to you for joining us. And tonight, congratulations to Timmy in California, graduating today, an Eagle Scout, loves his family, his mother, his father, sister Katie (ph) and the head of the family, Gus (ph), the family dog. He loves football, baseball and the Atlanta Braves. Graduating with top grades, this Eagle Scout is headed to Ivy League school. No pressure, Timmy. But now you can just go change the world.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night. We will be live at the Orlando courthouse, in our own way seeking justice for Caylee. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 o`clock sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.