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Joy Behar Page

Casey Anthony Murder Trial

Aired June 22, 2011 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, first George Anthony sits in court as Casey`s defense accuses him of sexual abuse. Now the defense could call someone who claims to be his mistress to the stand. So why is Jose Baez using George as a scapegoat?

And what comes next? If Casey Anthony goes to prison what will her life be like? A behind-the-scenes look at the tough life of female inmates from a woman who`s been there; she`ll tell Joy whether Casey`s celebrity status will help or hurt her if she`s locked up.

Plus Michael Lohan joins Joy to talk about "Celebrity Rehab" and Lindsay`s first month of house arrest.

That and more starting right now.

BEHAR: A parade of defense witnesses took the stand this morning in the Casey Anthony murder trial. But was their testimony enough to make the jury doubt that Casey is a killer? When all is said and done, could Casey walk away a free woman?

Meanwhile, a woman who claims she had an affair with George Anthony speaks out. Could her testimony make it to trial? Interesting stuff.

And here now to answer all these questions and more are Rikki Klieman, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor; Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney; plus Ryan Smith, host of "In Session" on TruTV, outside the courthouse in Orlando.

Ok, a woman who claims that she had an affair with George Anthony, Krystal Holloway. She gave an interview to WKMG yesterday. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that fair to say you had an affair with George Anthony?

KRYSTAL HOLLOWAY, CLAIMS TO BE GEORGE ANTHONY`S FORMER MISTRESS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An intimate affair?

HOLLOWAY: An intimate affair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But when the investigators asked you about it you denied it.

HOLLOWAY: I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

HOLLOWAY: Well, I figured I could tell them everything without having to tell them that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did George tell you about that?

HOLLOWAY: That it was an accident that snowballed out of control.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Ryan, she says George told her Caylee`s death was an accident. Will this make it to trial?

RYAN SMITH, HOST, "IN SESSION": I think it could. And we actually saw her, people inside the courtroom saw her in the witness area yesterday. Some were thinking that she might testify yesterday or today. It didn`t happen.

But I think it could for a number of reasons. First of all, Jose Baez mentioned her in his opening statements when he talked about text messages going from George Anthony about the accident theory. The other thing are the words that she says that George told her relate to this accident theory and even talk about why he didn`t tell the police and he`s saying back because he didn`t want to lose, too. Now it`s -- too meaning Casey and Caylee.

Now it still -- in some ways it could be seen as hearsay, but I think the defense is going to try to say it`s an exception to the hearsay rule. And so she may take the witness stand. And this may be the best witness they have to talk about that accident theory as the way Caylee died.

BEHAR: I know but George Anthony denied the whole affair. So will she be credible? I mean Jayne, she`s told two different stories about the affair now. Is she even credible as a witness because she seems to be inconsistent?

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, she is credible as a witness. I mean she lied about the affair because he was married and I don`t know what her relationship status is. But she didn`t lie and she has not swayed anywhere from her statement that George Anthony told her in a moment of intimacy a statement against (INAUDIBLE) interest with his wife an exception to the hearsay rule. Ryan`s right.

And it`s coming into evidence that in fact, that this was an accident that has snowballed out of control.

BEHAR: Wow. Is this all the defense has to show, though, to claim that there was an accident? This is it?

RIKKI KLIEMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the defense is going to have to show a lot more. And --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Yes.

KLIEMAN: I`m even willing to defer to Jayne on the defense because she`s so good and give you the other side of it. So Jayne, go take it away.

BEHAR: All right. You answer that question then.

WEINTRAUB: It really isn`t rhetoric, Joy, to say -- and thanks, Rikki -- it`s not rhetoric to say the defense doesn`t have to show anything, those aren`t just words. No matter what was said in opening statement, the reality is that he has to prove nothing, Jose Baez.

The state has the burden of proof. Of premeditated murder -- there`s no evidence. Have they proven a reasonable doubt? Absolutely. They`ve paraded witnesses that have substantive issues to bear out.

BEHAR: So she gets on the stand -- let me understand. She gets on the stand. She says she had an affair with George and he says it`s an accident. That raises reasonable doubt? That`s enough?

KLIEMAN: No, that not enough. If Jayne were trying this case, you might get a lot more reasonable doubt than we`d see or perhaps we have seen. What you`ve really got here is a problem. And you`ve got a problem because Jose Baez opened in his case and he said he was going show that this was the result of a drowning, that then you had the grandfather, you had George Anthony, who was going to take the child away, get rid of the child like trash. Plus you have the whole aspect of the defense being that she was sexually abused by her father.

BEHAR: Right. And brother --

KLIEMAN: None of that is coming to evidence unless she testifies. And she`s not coming.

WEINTRAUB: Rikki --

BEHAR: Go ahead.

WEINTRAUB: You know what? He`s already really elicit evidence and raised that specter in his cross-examination

You know evidence comes not just from the witness stands by Casey Anthony; it comes by cross-examination and bringing other witnesses. For example, he has already elicited from the FBI agent that they did a paternity test. I mean think about that -- a paternity test on her brother for the --

KLIEMAN: They did the paternity test -- they did a paternity test on the brother because of Casey Anthony`s statements which would have led them to perhaps do a paternity test on the brother or on her father.

BEHAR: But they`re negative. He`s not the father.

KLIEMAN: They`re negative. So it`s nothing.

WEINTRAUB: That`s insignificant.

KLIEMAN: But it`s the idea of getting that evidence in front of them that`s a negative. It`s why the judge gets so mad at Jose Baez. And frankly, so do I.

BEHAR: Ok. Let`s get Ryan in here. Go ahead, Ryan.

SMITH: Yes. I think one of the problems here is we`re looking at one piece of a puzzle that the defense may have to put together. And I agree with your guests, the defense doesn`t necessarily have to put on a defense. But here`s the problem -- when you explain that in opening statements, yes, you seek to bring Krystal Holloway on the stand, endorse the accident theory that you`re talking about.

Maybe even say that statement that George wanted to save two meaning Casey and Caylee. And that`s why he was hiding it and then it makes him and those videotapes a little bit more easy to understand from a defense perspective.

But there are still problems. First of all, why didn`t she say anything about it? The 31-day period. How did the body get from George to that wooded area? All those things still have to be explained, I think, for the jury to believe it.

BEHAR: We have a lot to cover. Let`s go on.

A forensic geologist was on the stand this morning. She compared soil from Casey`s shoes to soil from the crime scene. Listen --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAUREEN BOTTRELL, FBI FORENSIC GEOLOGIST: Three pairs of the shoes had some geologic material on them that we could do a comparison. And of those three pairs of shoes, the material that we recovered from them is different from the crime scene. So it could not have originated from that location.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: All right. Rikki, so the soil from the scene was not found on her shoes, right?

KLIEMAN: And so --

BEHAR: At the scene. So maybe she switched shoes. Maybe she threw the shoes away.

KLIEMAN: Exactly. I will say this, the defense has done exactly the right thing, I say, by doing the science first because they needed to poke holes in the government`s science witnesses.

The problem for the defense is with each witness that they have put on for their version of the science the prosecution comes back on cross- examination and ultimately, I think, eviscerates it or at least makes it neutral.

BEHAR: I see. Ryan, another way --

WEINTRAUB: He`s very skilled. That prosecutor is a very skilled, experienced lawyer.

BEHAR: He is. He`s smart.

KLIEMAN: Jeff Ashton. He`s really great.

WEINTRAUB: That`s right.

BEHAR: Yes. Now Ryan, another witness said that the duct tape at the scene didn`t match duct tape from the house. Was that important? Ryan?

SMITH: I think it was because the duct tape -- when you look at the prosecution`s case, that`s the murder weapon here. They`re saying -- their theory is that Casey applied chloroform to Caylee and put that duct tape on her mouth and nose. So their thought was that duct tape came from the Anthony home.

So if the duct tape found at the Anthony home doesn`t match the duct tape that was at the remains site, well, then you break apart the prosecution`s theory of the case. And of course, the prosecution pushed back on this, but still I think it`s a point for the defense. Because that`s exactly what you want to do.

As Rikki said, you poke holes in the prosecution`s theory --

BEHAR: But they could have just switched the duct tape. She could have switched --

WEINTRAUB: And Joy --

KLIEMAN: There may have been a lot of duct tape.

SMITH: It`s true.

BEHAR: Yes.

WEINTRAUB: Joy, speaking of the duct tape, what`s so crucial is the medical examiner Dr. Spitz`s testimony was incredible. His testimony was that the duct tape could not have been there before she died. And the reason -- there was no skin to hold it, and think about it -- remember all the evidence about the flooding and the submerging in the water, where`s the adhesion? There`s no adhesion left. And it stayed in place directly over the mouth? Are you kidding me? There`s no way.

If it moved even a centimeter, which is less than an inch, then it would have not been there and it couldn`t have asphyxiated the girl and couldn`t have been the cause of death.

KLIEMAN: That`s why she should be arguing the case.

BEHAR: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

WEINTRAUB: There was no skin. There`s nothing to hold it. The duct tape is not the murder weapon. They don`t know. They`re speculating. You can`t speculate in the death penalty case.

KLIEMAN: They got to do something about that duct tape in the rebuttal case. They do. They can`t leave this alone.

BEHAR: There`s now this discussion going on that she may get away with this, you know.

KLIEMAN: You know, the reality is this --

BEHAR: She`s going to jail, isn`t she, for something?

KLIEMAN: For heaven`s sake, there are four counts of making false statements. We know those are convictions.

BEHAR: Ok, you know what, in the next segment we`re going to talk about what Casey`s life will be like in prison. Because we`re interested in hearing what women`s prisons are all about on this show; I want to know about it. Ok.

So thank you guys very much. We`ll have more on the Casey Anthony trial in a -- after a quick break.

Stay there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Up next, if Casey Anthony ends up in prison, will her celebrity status help or hurt? A woman who spent almost 20 years behind bars tells Joy what Casey should expect.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Everything I know about women`s prisons I learned from the movie "Women Behind Bars." But for Casey Anthony prison life is a reality. She`s been behind bars since 2008 and may be there forever if she is convicted of killing her daughter Caylee.

Here to discuss just what goes on inside the walls of a women`s prison are Stacey Lannert, the author of "Redemption", who served 18 years for killing her father; and Casey Jordan, criminologist and contributor for "In Session" on TruTV.

Stacey, you spent 18 years in prison for killing your father who you say was molesting you. How did you survive in prison for 18 years? My God.

STACEY LANNERT, AUTHOR, "REDEMPTION": Well, a combination of things. Luckily I had friends. I had faith. And I had quite a few activities such as training service dogs for champ, teaching aerobics, and working with at- risk juveniles.

BEHAR: I see. But let me ask you something -- Casey, maybe you know this -- do all the inmates know what the other inmates did?

CASEY JORDAN, CONTRIBUTOR, "IN SESSION" ON TRUTV: Oh yes. Well, the code is that you never ask, but everybody knows. They just know. There`s such an amazing underground network of gossip. And there is no way on earth that if Casey goes to prison everyone will know why she`s there.

BEHAR: Right. Well, they have televisions in prison.

JORDAN: Not only that, they may have to send her to an entirely different state because of her notoriety.

BEHAR: But still, they watch my show everywhere.

JORDAN: Everywhere especially in prison -- especially in prisons.

BEHAR: Especially in prisons.

JORDAN: What else is there to watch?

So yes, everyone -- if she goes to prison, everyone will know why she`s there, there`s no doubt.

BEHAR: Ok. Now, Stacey, aren`t people that commit -- who commit certain crimes considered the lowest of the low in jail? Like for instance, if you kill your child -- I know child molesters have a lot of the trouble in prison. What about women who kill their children?

LANNERT: Oh, yes, they`re considered the same pariah as a child molester. They are the lowest of the low. And they will never have any peace -- ever.

BEHAR: So what happens -- what will happen to her? If she`s not in isolation -- don`t they keep them in isolation, Casey, the child murderers?

JORDAN: Well, generally --

(CROSSTALK)

LANNERT: Sometimes.

BEHAR: Yes.

JORDAN: Yes, sometimes, Stacey is absolutely correct. The bottom line though, is that she`ll request it. If she doesn`t request it she`s going to get majorly beat up within the first 24 hours and then she`ll request it. Am I wrong, Stacey?

LANNERT: No, you are correct.

JORDAN: Right, so --

LANNERT: She absolutely will.

BEHAR: Why are you laughing, Stacey?

LANNERT: Well, because she`s so correct. She`s absolutely right on.

BEHAR: You were laughing at how correct Casey is. Ok.

LANNERT: Yes.

BEHAR: There are so many -- the name, you have to change your name.

JORDAN: No I know.

BEHAR: Change your name.

JORDAN: And I`ve been called Casey Anthony twice on the Internet since -- you know --

BEHAR: How annoying.

JORDAN: I had it first. I had the name first.

BEHAR: I know you did. Look. Let`s see, describe -- Stacey, tell me what life is like behind those walls because you were there. What goes on? Like --

LANNERT: Right.

BEHAR: Yes.

LANNERT: Well, you don`t get to pick who you live with. You`ll have however many roommates they assign you to, usually four or five roommates. Everybody has to work at least six hours a day, five days a week.

BEHAR: Doing what? Making like license plates --

LANNERT: Anything that they assign.

BEHAR: My favorite -- the comedians always talk about the New Hampshire "Live Free or Die" is on their license plate.

JORDAN: Right.

BEHAR: And they`re all in prison making those. That is the definition of irony.

JORDAN: Yes.

LANNERT: But this maybe -- that is one of the jobs, but there`s tons of other jobs too.

(CROSSTALK)

JORDAN: Right.

LANNERT: From cleaning the floors to preparing the food. So she`s going to have some interaction with other inmates even if it`s just through her job site.

And then recreation`s available. It should be available; a couple hours at different points in time during the day.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Yes, go ahead.

JORDAN: Well and Stacey`s right, but I think she`s talking about general population. If Casey Anthony ends up in protective custody, she will only get one hour a day out of her cell at times. And that interaction with the other inmates -- and Stacey just said she had activities, she had friends; those are the things that kept her going during her 18 years.

Casey Anthony may not get those if she`s in protective custody. So she will have a lot of psychological, dare I say, punishment, as well.

BEHAR: When you watch the case, Casey, do you notice -- does she look scared?

JORDAN: With her, who could tell? Which face of Casey Anthony are we talking about?

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: You can`t tell what she`s --

JORDAN: Is the jury in the room or not in the room? I mean, does she know the camera`s on her or not? I mean we see so many faces of Casey Anthony. Is she -- is -- they say there`s no atheist in a fox hole.

On that day when the verdict is read, you may see the first real tears from Casey Anthony because she is going to be thinking of the judgment of this jury and she might get scared then. Right now --

BEHAR: The tears that she hasn`t shed for the child --

(CROSSTALK)

JORDAN: Yes.

BEHAR: -- she has shed for herself.

JORDAN: Oh, true, true. And I really don`t think she has entered the fear zone yet. But I think she will. She`s in denial. It`s self- preservation is what she has to do.

BEHAR: Stacey, when you were in prison, were there any celebrities there? Because this girl is considered a celebrity now in a certain way -- you know what I mean?

LANNERT: Yes, I think that was me when I was incarcerated.

BEHAR: You were the celebrity.

(CROSSTALK)

LANNERT: So.

BEHAR: Why, because you had a very high-profile case. Is that why?

LANNERT: Yes. I did.

And she does, too. And that`s going to be a strike against her. They`re waiting on her when she comes into prison already.

BEHAR: So it doesn`t help to be a celebrity in prison. I thought it might help. I mean when Martha Stewart which was -- because she was convicted of a white-collar crime, she was a celebrity in prison. Nobody treated Martha badly. But of course I`m not comparing the two, obviously.

But if you`re a celebrity like this girl, Casey or like a -- like a criminal celebrity --

JORDAN: It depends on the crime, Joy.

BEHAR: Yes. Right.

JORDAN: I mean what Stacey did, I bet there were other inmates in prison who didn`t have a problem with what she did because her father was abusive. But what Casey did --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Is that true, Stacey?

LANNERT: Yes.

BEHAR: That is true?

So they liked you because they knew what your father did to you. They probably felt that they had been molested also; probably a lot of them had been themselves.

JORDAN: Right.

BEHAR: So they identified and empathized with you, right?

LANNERT: Right. So most people could understand why I wound up in that situation and could even put themselves in that situation.

With Casey Anthony, very few people are going to be able to understand why she did what she did. There`s not going to be any empathy and no compassion.

BEHAR: Ok. We`ll -- we`ll have more on this in a minute. Stay right where you are. I`m stuttering. I`m so excited about this topic.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: I`m back with my guests and we`re continuing our conversation about Casey Anthony`s life behind bars. You were saying something before off camera. We were talking about the fact that I don`t see how she can get the death penalty or Murder One or maybe even manslaughter because the prosecution has not proven the cause of death beyond a reasonable doubt.

JORDAN: Well, they`ve proved that -- the manner of death, of course, is homicide.

BEHAR: Right.

JORDAN: And Dr. G. Slammed this, slam-dunked her presentation about children who die accidentally don`t have duct tape wrapped around their heads. This kind of articulation really speaks to the jury.

Now, I don`t, for one second, think she`s going to get the death penalty. I`ll give you that it could be a toss-up between first degree and aggravated manslaughter of the child because you could go either way.

But I listened carefully to voir dire of the jury. They`re going to go what when w what they think is reasonable; not the legal definition, not the scientific definition, but the human I am a Floridian who doesn`t like women who kill their children --

BEHAR: Why do you have to be a Floridian to prove that point?

JORDAN: Because they convict people, I`m telling you. This is a state that convicts people -- and Texas -- and they`re not going give her the capital punishment, no way.

BEHAR: Why not?

JORDAN: Because at some level the things you`re talking about, those little holes that are not enough to make them vote not guilty will be enough to spare her life.

BEHAR: I see. But if she`s isolated which she probably will be, right --

JORDAN: If she`s convicted.

BEHAR: And you say one -- what did you say? Did you say one hour a day out of the cell?

JORDAN: Generally a protective custody is one hour a day. Don`t forget, Jeffrey Dahmer was in protective custody, he got out to do one of those jobs Stacey was talking about mopping the floors --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: And they killed him.

JORDAN: -- and another inmate killed him. If you`re a pariah, you are in danger. And it has very horrible effect on you psychologically. The idea --

BEHAR: Were there any pariahs when you were back there in prison, Stacey? Was there anybody like that?

LANNERT: Oh, absolutely.

BEHAR: There were?

LANNERT: Absolutely. We had tons of people who -- not tons, but we had quite a few people who were in there for child molestation. Some of the worst cases you could ever believe. And you know, they become prey; if anybody`s having a bad day, they take it out on that person.

BEHAR: But it`s not the same as a men`s prison where there, is you know, lots of -- rapes and all sorts of violence that goes on, I think. This is what I`ve seen on television.

LANNERT: Right. Women`s prisons are not as violent as men`s prisons; like I never had a fight while I was incarcerated. However, these people are picked on, preyed upon, and they receive the violence that is in the women`s prison.

BEHAR: Is there a lot of women-on-women sexual behavior going in women`s prisons?

(CROSSTALK)

LANNERT: Yes, but most of it`s not forced, it`s chosen.

BEHAR: It`s chosen. There`s a lot of what they call coupling going in women`s prisons?

LANNERT: Yes. Absolutely.

BEHAR: Even women who would be straight outside become lesbians in prison? Is that what happens?

LANNERT: Yes.

JORDAN: Yes.

LANNERT: A lot of times. Not all the time. But people get lonely.

BEHAR: Yes. Of course. I saw you in March last year, you were on my show. What have you been doing with yourself since then?

LANNERT: Well, I`m running a non-profit. It`s Healing Sisters. And I have returned to school full time. And I`m going to be seeking a law degree.

BEHAR: Wow. Good for you, Stacey. We`re so happy for you.

LANNERT: Thank you.

JORDAN: She did great.

BEHAR: Thank you very much, you guys.

JORDAN: She`s amazing.

BEHAR: Stacey`s book is called "Redemption".

We`ll be right back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next, Michael Lohan joins Joy to talk about his rehab and Lindsay`s house arrest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Is America addicted to celebrities or just celebrities with addictions? The new season of VH-1`s "Celebrity Rehab" debuts this Sunday with some explosive celebrity behavior. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are so (expletive deleted) loud. You woke me up! Shut up, you loud (expletive deleted)!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re drunk, it`s 10 after 8:00.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t actually have that much confidence left.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody`s going to die today because she`s here wasting everybody`s time.

DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST, "CELEBRITY REHAB": Do you want to change, yes or no?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m going through some difficulties.

MICHAEL LOHAN, "CELEBRITY REHAB": I don`t want my family to see this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: With me are three of the cast from "Celebrity Rehab," Michael Lohan, Lindsay`s fathers; Sean Young, an actress who appeared in "Blade Runner" as well as over 50 other movies; and Jeremy Jackson, one-time child actor who played David Hasselhoff`s son in "Baywatch."

Michael, in the clip you say -- what do you say? I don`t want my family to see this. You don`t want your family to see this, why are you doing it on television?

LOHAN: Because when you first get in there you don`t realize what you`re -- what emotions you`re going to pour out and how real it really is.

BEHAR: Uh-huh.

LOHAN: I mean, sure, we knew it was a show. I wanted to go on to get the therapy and treatment I needed from Dr. Drew. That was the only way to get it was to be on the show. But when you start pouring out -- when he digs deep and he brings things out of you that you never thought you`d talk about, and when you talk about them, you`re saying, oh my God, I can`t believe I said that.

BEHAR: But do you think it would be more therapeutic if you did it privately, let`s say, with someone like Dr. Drew, who`s as good as he is?

LOHAN: Yes -- well, do I think it would be more therapeutic? No. Because you`re still getting the therapy. Do I think it`s different to have it portrayed in the media? Joy, understand something, I really believe in paying it forward and helping people to learn from all the things we`ve been through in our lives.

BEHAR: So that`s the TV thing.

LOHAN: I really think that people -- look, instead of just six people getting therapy here, millions of people are going to watch this show. They`re going to identify with certain parts of the show that might affect them in their life in a positive way. I know Jeremy and Sean had a lot of things to say that were so important and so inveterate in other people`s lives as well as their own. So people are going to identify with them.

BEHAR: OK. All right. Let me get to Sean then.

Now, Sean, you had a very public drunken moment at a Hollywood awards show in 2008 when you heckled the stage. And you say on "Celebrity Rehab" you did it because you were dead already. What do you mean by that?

SEAN YOUNG, "CELEBRITY REHAB": Well, I`d undergone a lot of criticism and false accusations from people that I had worked with. And it had kind of closed a lot of doors for me. And I had tried unsuccessfully for many, many years to get that repaired and healed. And it just -- it just didn`t work.

And I just finally went, you think I`m crazy? OK, well, here`s crazy then. And it -- it was sort of like if people keep calling you crazy, it kind of makes you crazy.

BEHAR: I see. It`s like if someone calls you fat enough, they just keep eating, I guess, it`s simple -- right?

LOHAN: Or if you tell someone to do something and they do it like our own kids.

BEHAR: Yes, yes, yes. Now but -- so you said something that was -- you discovered in "Celebrity Rehab" that you have another addiction, what`s the other addiction?

YOUNG: Love addiction.

BEHAR: You have a love addiction.

YOUNG: Well, I think the love addiction was fueling the alcoholism. That`s actually what I walked away with. And I think Dr. Drew is a genius because I actually really hadn`t been able to get a clear picture of this in myself. And I walked away with a really clear understanding of what was motivating some of my behavior which I had previously been unaware of.

BEHAR: How do you explain a love addiction, though? Tell me what it is.

YOUNG: Well, like being in a relationship if you define a relationship as each partner is a reciprocal part of that relationship. If you`re in an unbalanced relationship and you can`t walk away from it but yet you can`t really be in it in a healthy way either, that`s sort of what I define and read in these books that Dr. Drew gave me as love addiction.

BEHAR: I see. All right. Well, let me bring in Jeremy now.

You were a child star on "Baywatch," and you did jail time for crystal meth. How common are drugs in young Hollywood? Tell me about that.

JEREMY JACKSON, "CELEBRITY REHAB": Drugs are common everywhere. Anywhere you go. Anywhere you go in the United States, in California, doesn`t matter if you`re a celebrity. It doesn`t matter if you`re in high school.

BEHAR: They`re everywhere.

JACKSON: They`re everywhere. It`s a problem. And, you know, what we were just talking about is this addiction. Love addiction, sex addiction, overeating. Something we learned that was very amazing is this addict gene that survives in 10 percent of the world`s population, 10 percent of the world has this gene in their brain, and when you experience this overwhelming flood of emotions, dopamine in the survival center of your brain, this gene says, do that again, do that again.

So, you know, when I get high, my brain tells me to survive, I have to get high again. And that addiction can manifest with anything. With love, you were just talking about with Sean.

YOUNG: With anything at all.

JACKSON: With food, with excitement. With, you know, gambling. It`s all based on that gene.

LOHAN: Even your BlackBerry, Joy.

BEHAR: My BlackBerry, I`m addicted to my BlackBerry, I know.

YOUNG: Yes, there`s electronic addiction now. There is, there`s electronic addiction.

BEHAR: I have it.

YOUNG: Me, too.

BEHAR: But, Jeremy, so there`s no crystal meth in Dr. Drew`s "Celebrity Rehab," so access to the drug is not available. So but I`m wondering, with Sean, she has a love addiction, you`re surrounded by love addicts. How do you overcome that?

There`s a bunch of you in the.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: No, this to Sean.

YOUNG: I think the way you -- you overcome anything, regardless of what it is, even just a problem in your life, is you recognize it. That`s the first thing you have to do to get better in anything is you recognize that problem. You admit it and you go, oh yes, that`s what`s going on.

And that`s actually -- you know, what some of the meetings that people go to for these things is based on, you admit it.

BEHAR: Yes. That`s true. That was true for you probably, too, right?

LOHAN: Yes.

BEHAR: You have to admit -- the first things in AA, they say "I am an alcoholic."

LOHAN: You have to admit the exact nature of your wrongs, no matter how you look at it. Hold yourself accountable for the things you`ve done. It`s not about the other people. It`s about us.

BEHAR: But that`s the truth of any kind of therapeutic session that you`re into. To confront your own neuroses you have to say, I have this. Very important.

LOHAN: Yes, but I think a big part of it, and I think they`ll concur, is that people, places, and things in our life have a major part in our recovery. And whether we think -- you know, I was in for co-dependency. And whether it`s staying away from a relationship or staying away from -- or a job, when you`re working for people in a job, and you find out that that`s not a good place for you or the people that you`re involved with.

BEHAR: Yes, but where are you going to go?

(CROSSTALK)

YOUNG: Or staying away from a certain behavior. It`s like you say, I`m not going do this behavior anymore. I`m not going to act out in this way anymore.

BEHAR: Well, easier said than done, right, Sean?

YOUNG: Yes, absolutely.

BEHAR: Uh-huh.

YOUNG: Hard to do, you know. And you can start out good and not necessarily be able to maintain it. You can say, oh, I get it, I get it, and then your mind kind of goes, oh, wait a minute, I don`t remember. And you have to constantly sort of make the effort to reaffirm that each day.

LOHAN: You know, I think something that Sean said before is very important. Although we went through treatment there, what we got out of it, and what we took from it, she didn`t realize that she had a love addiction until she got there. I think we all took something important from what we learned there. And it`s only a matter of now -- they even provide us with after care when we`re -- when we leave. I mean, the show.

BEHAR: That`s good.

LOHAN: Yes, it`s amazing.

BEHAR: But, Sean, you had no clue that when you would get into relationships, it was destructive relationships, knew something was up, right?

YOUNG: Well, no, I`ve been in the same relationship for a really long time to Robert, he`s the father of our children. And I would do this behavior with him where I would push him away and I`d get mad at him for not being what I wanted him to be. And then I would pull him back because I was like lonely and I felt abandoned. And it was a lot of things that had to do and were focused on this particular relationship.

BEHAR: I see.

YOUNG: And he then became my person of addiction. I`m not addicted to everybody, I`m just addicted to him, you know.

BEHAR: I see.

YOUNG: And that`s different for other people because you can have -- it`s not just one behavior in love addiction or sex addiction or co- dependence. There is your life`s story that is a part of it.

BEHAR: Of course, of course. Just one question before we take a break. Jeremy, I must ask you this because you worked with David Hasselhoff, and from what I could tell, he has issues, hello?

JACKSON: He might be one of the 10 percent of us.

YOUNG: Honey, we all have issues.

BEHAR: I know. But I was wondering if he -- when you worked with him and you were young, was he an enabler or a bad role model for you or anything like that?

JACKSON: No. He was -- he was a fun, great guy to work with. We`re still really close today. You know, he -- he`s in recovery also. He`s doing really good right now. Back in the "Baywatch" days, everybody kept everything to themselves. They didn`t kind of like get around and do this red bathing suit let`s all drink and get high thing.

BEHAR: That`s funny because everything was exposed on that show and yet nothing was exposed. We`ll have more in just a minute. Sit tight.

LOHAN: The nature of Hollywood.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: I`m back with three members of the cast of "Celebrity Rehab," the new season premieres this Sunday at 9:00 p.m. on VH-1.

Michael, you say on the show that Lindsay is walking the same path that you are. You say that. Have you spoken to her recently about it?

LOHAN: I did when she was in Betty Ford and when we had family therapy and we poured our hearts out to each other. It`s probably the first time we ever really came to a common ground and really discussed what we went through whole-heartedly.

BEHAR: Yes. I know that you`ve had a difficult relationship with her, and you`ve been criticized and et cetera, and now it sounds as though you two are having a rapprochement of some sort? Don`t you love it when I speak French?

(LAUGHTER)

LOHAN: Give me a little more.

BEHAR: But.

(CROSSTALK)

LOHAN: There goes that romance thing, Sean.

BEHAR: But it sounds as though you spoke to her on Father`s Day. I heard about that. And you are sort of getting back together with Lindsay?

LOHAN: Yes, you know what, look at, I had to do what I had to do to get myself in a place where it would open the door for the rest of my family members. You know, whether it`s my family members or other people that were in my life, whether it was, you know, Kate Major, my ex-wife, Dina, everyone`s in a better place now because I started to take the right steps for myself. I started to realize my part of it and what I was doing wrong.

YOUNG: So that`s where it starts, doesn`t it?

LOHAN: It really does.

YOUNG: And that was really true for you on this one, I thought. I mean, one of the things I noticed about Michael was that he actually learned that he might have to kind of pull back some of the stuff that he is concerned about with Lindsay and with other people in his life.

BEHAR: Yes. He certainly did learn that.

LOHAN: Yes, as a matter of fact -- well, you learn to pull back, but you can`t take back what you already did. So you have to.

BEHAR: Do you think -- does Lindsay blame you for her addictions herself?

LOHAN: No.

BEHAR: She doesn`t.

LOHAN: I mean, at one point maybe she did. But no, she doesn`t. There`s a lot of truth to the apple doesn`t fall far from the tree.

BEHAR: Exactly.

LOHAN: And this is the predisposition or predominant gene that`s in our families. And one thing -- you made a very good point just a few minutes ago when we were off the air. You know, it`s funny how years ago when our parents and grandparents were -- you didn`t see addiction back then like you do now. Maybe there was sex addiction and maybe some gambling addiction, but you don`t see the addictions that exist today like they do today. And that`s something we all.

(CROSSTALK)

YOUNG: I disagree.

LOHAN: You do?

YOUNG: I disagree.

BEHAR: Why?

YOUNG: I mean, I think lots of people had lots of addictions. I mean, World War II, all the stars drank big time. A lot of people drank back then. But they just didn`t -- they didn`t look at it the same way as people look at it now.

BEHAR: Well, that`s because that was -- that`s because Oprah wasn`t on the air yet.

(LAUGHTER)

YOUNG: Well, it`s true. And that`s because AA didn`t exist, and that`s because -- you know, I mean, there has been drinking and using forever, you know?.

LOHAN: Well, I agree with that. But at the same time, I was looking even further back and looking to it during the roaring `20s and stuff, there was prohibition and alcoholism. But you didn`t see the other things that would go on today like they do. Certainly as a matter of fact, with war or trauma that exists, PTSD, whatever happens.

See, Dr. Drew taught us something -- or taught me something, that although we have a predisposition in our families, or most of us do, for drug or alcohol addiction, it`s only when you flip the switch. When there`s a traumatic moment in the person`s life.

BEHAR: Right, or when the.

LOHAN: . that it becomes active.

BEHAR: Also, Michael, when there`s access. You know, there was a whole big thing with crack addicts for a while. That`s because crack was on the streets.

LOHAN: Exactly.

BEHAR: You know, alcohol is.

(CROSSTALK)

YOUNG: There`s so much more access now.

BEHAR: There`s more access. Cocaine addicts have money, for example.

LOHAN: That`s what I`m saying.

JACKSON: If crack wasn`t on the streets, people would be inhaling Glade. You can get Freon from an air conditioning unit. You can huff paint. I mean, there`s millions of ways to get high. You know, what it boils down to is these love addictions and this alcohol addiction and this porn addiction, or this overeating, these are all symptoms of an underlying issue. And that is not -- non-self-love. Being a child in an adult body.

You know what I mean? And they`re just symptoms. It`s about loving yourself. It`s about learning about yourself. It`s about growing, having a physical, mental, and spiritual change in your life to where you want more. You feel like you deserve more. You`re doing things for other people. You`re getting out of your little pity party, self-focused crap.

BEHAR: But, you know what, Jeremy, everybody is talking about addictions nowadays. I mean, Anthony Weiner is going into treatment for his tweet addictions. Tiger Woods had a sex addiction -- all these addictions. Everybody uses it as, not an excuse, but that`s what they say it is.

LOHAN: It`s an easy copout.

BEHAR: It is an easy copout.

LOHAN: But for some people it isn`t a copout. You know, when you use it as an excuse, that`s when it`s a problem. When you address it and you.

BEHAR: Well, what does Anthony Weiner -- he`s going into treatment for what? You guys are experts on this. What is it he`s going to get treatment on?

LOHAN: Oh, I`m not an expert, trust me.

BEHAR: Well, you are now. You have enough.

LOHAN: Well, I have enough under my belt, but.

BEHAR: Enough time with Dr. Drew to know a few tricks.

LOHAN: I`m still learning from Jeremy and Sean, every time they say something.

BEHAR: Sean, what do you think it is with Anthony Weiner? I`m just curious.

YOUNG: Me?

BEHAR: Yes, you.

YOUNG: I don`t even know who Anthony Weiner is, I don`t even watch TV anymore, Joy, who is this person?

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: He`s a congressman, a United States Congressman. OK, never mind.

YOUNG: Seriously, I live in a cave. I don`t want to know. I don`t want to know.

BEHAR: OK. Well, let me ask you this, Sean, because.

YOUNG: I`m sorry.

BEHAR: That`s OK, because in the show they mentioned the crazy tabloid stories about you back in the day. One was that you harassed James Woods. Was that the alcohol, love addiction, or something entirely different? What was that about?

YOUNG: Well, first of all, I didn`t -- I didn`t do any of these alleged events. Those were things that were pinned on to me in an effort to slander me. That had nothing to do with reality.

BEHAR: OK, now, is that denial or is that true? I mean, is that.

YOUNG: That`s actual fact. That`s actual fact.

LOHAN: I mean, Joy, listen.

YOUNG: But, you know, I did absolutely suffer from the loss of a good reputation after that, and that was its intended purpose. And I think that that definitely fueled an oncoming need to drink, absolutely. Because when you lose your good reputation, how do you get that back? I mean, that was sort of, you know, the whole design of it.

LOHAN: You rebuild it like are you now, Sean. You know.

YOUNG: Yes.

LOHAN: Listen, when it comes to rumors and tabloids and everything else.

YOUNG: Well, I`m on board now. You know, like I`m interested in doing that now.

BEHAR: In doing what?

LOHAN: Rebuilding.

YOUNG: In rebuilding a good reputation. And like Jeremy said, like in the process -- loving myself in the process instead of just feeling overwhelmed by the -- what show business could do and actually did with me is like, get on board. You know, get behind yourself. Believe in yourself. Don`t look at it from their point of view. Look at it from your point of view.

BEHAR: OK. Very good. I wish you all the best. I hope you`re all going to be nice and sober forever. The new season of "Celebrity Rehab" starts Sunday night at 9:00 on VH-1. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(VIDEO OF ROBIN MEADE SINGING)

BEHAR: That was HLN`s own Robin Meade performing at the legendary Grand Ole Opry. Apparently she`s not only the host of "Morning Express," she has got them country singing chops, too. Her debut album is called "Brand New Day." And I`m very happy to welcome back to my show the lovely and talented Robin Meade.

ROBIN MEADE, HOST, "MORNING EXPRESS": You had me on when it was in the making, and look, it`s a realty. Oh, my gosh.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Honey, you got a standing ovation there. That must have been a very heady for you at the Grand Ole Opry.

MEADE: You`re right, yes, because the Grand Ole Opry, like you said, it`s really iconic to play there. And I like to think that the people gave a standing ovation, not for me, but maybe for the message of that song. That song is called "Welcome Home." And it`s on this album that you just mentioned. But I sang it for the troops and I thank the veterans in the audience. So I like to think that they were standing for the message.

BEHAR: That`s nice. Well, you know, I saw you recently at Birdland in New York City.

MEADE: Another iconic place, yes.

BEHAR: Very much so. And with some very special guests. I believe we have some video of that. As you can see there -- all you can see are heads, but...

(LAUGHTER)

MEADE: Do you see -- do you notice Joy? Look at Joy with the rhythm, keeping the rhythm on like the percussion here.

BEHAR: Oh, God.

MEADE: And we were singing "Dirty Laundry" together.

BEHAR: That is a pathetic sight.

(LAUGHTER)

MEADE: You were doing fine to me.

BEHAR: Oh, my God.

MEADE: There`s Jane Velez-Mitchell as well.

BEHAR: The way it looks, it just looks like these bobbing heads up and down like you see in the back of a car.

MEADE: Well, I think one of the viewers that night actually took that video so we`ll have to cut them a little slack. But I was there singing some of the songs from this album, and I think some people, Joy, when they go, wait a minute, you have, you know, this album with 12 cuts on it, six of them I co-wrote. But I have two covers and one of them is "Dirty Laundry."

It`s that old song from Don Henley from the `80s which completely makes fun of the news. So to have, you know, a cable network news woman singing about that, I think some people are kind of caught off-guard by it.

BEHAR: I mean, it`s sort of biting the hand that feeds you, no?

MEADE: Well, I guess you could look at it that way. But I knew as soon as I knew that I was doing an album that I wanted to remake that. It was completely my idea. Because a lot of people, when they come from another industry and they come to Nashville already known, they kind of disown what they did before.

And I wanted to look it right in the face and say, yes, kind of tongue-in-cheek, yes, this is what I do for a living. And, you know, why can`t I do both? So also if you think about it, the thing that you guys were just talking about, like Representative Anthony Weiner, you know, shooting pictures of his junk or the Casey Anthony trial where it`s just -- you know, talk about dirty laundry, right? I think this song is still really relevant.

BEHAR: That`s true. That`s true.

MEADE: Yes.

BEHAR: You know, I hope your next album, you`ll be in costume like Lady Gaga. I would love to see you with feathers coming out of your head. That would be really a treat.

MEADE: It would make my arse look littler, I might like that.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: OK. Thanks, Robin. And check out Robin`s new CD, it`s called "Brand New Day." Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.

END