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Nancy Grace
Case against Tot Mom, Cindy Anthony Admits to Computer Searches
Aired June 23, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the case of 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct- taping, placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
The murder trial of tot mom Casey Anthony under way. Tot mom`s lawyer tells a stunned courtroom she has nothing to do with Caylee`s death, but that her own father, ex-cop George Anthony, shows up with Caylee`s dead body, then hides it, leaving it to rot. Tot mom also claims father George and brother Lee both molest her.
Bombshell tonight. Grandmother Cindy Anthony takes the fall for tot mom, telling a stunned jury she, Cindy, made the exhaustive computer searches, over 100 of them, for how to make chloroform, ruptured spleen, acetone, a whole list of murder-related topics.
And even though her own work records reveal Cindy was at work at the time the deadly searches were made, Cindy Anthony says her own work records must be wrong. She also swears under oath the stain of human decomposition found in tot mom`s car trunk was there when the car was purchased.
Then tot mom`s defense caps it off by putting up an expert who was forced to resign his last spot over ethics concerns. This as reports emerge Cindy and George Anthony actually tell others they know tot mom is not innocent, but they`ll do anything to save her from the death penalty, and today, entirely proved that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you input the words into the Google search engine "how to make chloroform"?
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: (INAUDIBLE) deputy sheriff.
I don`t recall putting in "how to make chloroform."
I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month.
But I did Google search "chloroform."
Her mother finally admitted that she`s been missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, the question is, and it`s a yes or no...
CINDY ANTHONY: Get someone here now!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... did you type into the search bar on Google "how to make chloroform"?
CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter finally admitted that the baby-sitter stole her!
I don`t recall typing in "how to make chloroform."
I need to find her!
I told you during my deposition in 2009 that I made those searches.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Self-defense?
CINDY ANTHONY: I did not search for self-defense.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Household weapons?
CINDY ANTHONY: I did not search for household weapons.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Neck breaking?
CINDY ANTHONY: I did not search for neck breaking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Inhalation?
CINDY ANTHONY: Probably.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Alcohol?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Acetone?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Peroxide?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hydrogen peroxide?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace, I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Grandmother Cindy Anthony takes the fall for tot mom, telling a stunned jury she, Cindy, made those exhaustive computer searches, over 100 of them, for how to make chloroform, ruptured spleen, acetone, a whole list of murder-related topics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you do searches for making weapons out of household products?
CINDY ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chloroform habit?
CINDY ANTHONY: No.
She says Zanny took her a month ago!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you on that Web site 84 times?
CINDY ANTHONY: I was on it several times.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you on that Web site 84 times?
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know.
Caylee`s missing!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you do 84 searches for the effects of chlorophyll on your animals?
CINDY ANTHONY: I didn`t do 84 searches of anything, but I don`t know what my computer does while it`s running.
She`s been missing for a month!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you home on March 17th of 2008 between 1:43 and 1:55 PM?
CINDY ANTHONY: If those computer entries were made, then I made them. I was home.
I have not seen her since the 7th of June!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You were home between 2:16 and 2:28 PM?
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I have been looking for her.
CINDY ANTHONY: It`s possible? I mean...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you or weren`t you?
CINDY ANTHONY: I can`t tell you exactly what time I went home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you seen that stain before?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, when we bought the car.
I can`t find my granddaughter!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live at the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee.
What a day in the courtroom today, grandmother Cindy Anthony taking the fall for tot mom. Cindy, called back to the stand for yet another time, this time by the defense, takes the fall, claiming it was she, Cindy Anthony, not tot mom, that made all of those deadly computer searches.
Now, this even though Cindy Anthony`s own work records clearly show she was at work miles away at the time these computer searches were made. Today Cindy Anthony under oath tells the jury those computer searches were made by her, and her work records must all be wrong.
Straight out to Jean Casarez. Jean, what happened?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Nancy, it was under oath testimony that Cindy Anthony said that on March 17th and March 21st, that it was she -- she did the searches for chloroform, it was not her daughter. Why? Because her dogs were sleepy. She was researching why? Because they`d been eating plants in the back yard. She looked up chlorophyll. That led to bacteria. That led to a natural form of chloroform.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa! Stop! Stop! Stop! Jean, tell me something. How does chlorophyll -- the tiny green drops in plants that create photosynthesis that turn light and air and -- all into the ability to create a green plant -- how does that equal a deadly knockout drug banned back in the `70s for consumer use? How does that happen?
CASAREZ: I don`t know. I haven`t researched it. But according to the testimony, it has to do with algae and bacteria, and it goes into this natural form of chloroform.
GRACE: OK, let me ask you another question, Jean. For our viewers that were not in the courtroom, not watching all the testimony like all of us, here`s another question. Cindy Anthony says that her two little dogs - - what are they, Yorkies?
CASAREZ: Yes, they`re...
GRACE: Jean, are they Yorkies?
CASAREZ: Yes, they`re the puppies that were sleeping.
(CROSSTALK)
CASAREZ: I`ve got to look at my notebook.
GRACE: So her story is that they chew on bamboo? They chew on bamboo in the back yard. Did she ever look up bamboo?
CASAREZ: Well, she didn`t talk about that. She didn`t talk about that. But she talked about that she -- they were sleepy, and so she researched chlorophyll. The only thing she admitted searching originally was chlorophyll, and she misspelled it, and then it went into chloroform. And remember, chloroform was misspelled, too.
GRACE: To Gary Tuchman, CNN national correspondent. You can see him every night on "ANDERSON COOPER 360" at 10:00 o`clock. Gary, thank you for joining us. You were in court along with Jean all day long. What was your take on this? Was the jury believing it?
Look, look, I am not throwing a stone at Cindy Anthony because I can tell you, if my little girl or my little boy were looking at the Florida death penalty, I would ask them to hook me up instead of them, all right? So I get it. But what he want to know about right now is did the jury believe this?
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think what`s incredible, Nancy -- and I can`t answer that question, but I can tell you that it was pointed out in court to this jury was that she was under deposition three years ago from the prosecution, and she did not tell the prosecution the same story. Now, what came out in court today was she`s been under medication and her memory`s gotten better now compared to the way it was three years ago, which was closer to the incident.
GRACE: You know, Gary Tuchman, while I`ve still got you there in front of the courthouse, you state that the Anthony lawyer, who is very well respected not only in that region but around the country, Mark Lippman, tells you that George and Cindy Anthony do not believe tot mom is innocent. They know she`s not innocent, but they want to save her from the death penalty. What happened?
TUCHMAN: That`s an exact correct characterization. I talked to him yesterday on the record. His quote to me was, "They do not believe she`s innocent." Now, we should point out innocent is not a legal term. He did not tell me, We feel she should be convicted, she`s guilty of murder. They just said, She`s not innocent -- the lawyer.
He later contested it, but he does not deny the quote. He does not deny being on the record. He says it was a little (ph) taken out of context. I disagree with that. I stand by my reporting.
Nevertheless, he`s pointing out they want to get to the truth. And the most important thing for them, the reason they`re in this courtroom every single day of this trial, at least one of them, is they do not want her to get the death penalty, and they will do whatever it takes to keep her off of death row.
GRACE: And that was entirely proved in court today. Joining us shortly is Mark Lippman to respond to what Tuchman has to say. Tuchman stands by his reporting. Let`s hear what Lippman has to say. But I can tell you this much, if what they said is truly what they believe, it was entirely proved out in court today.
We are taking your calls live at the Orlando courthouse, all of us. Out to Sherry in Washington state. Hi, Sherry. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My question is, why didn`t the prosecutor, when she had her on cross-examination, had Cindy on cross- examination -- why didn`t she ask her about the odor, if there was any odor in the stains?
GRACE: You know, that`s a great question. What about it? Do we have Natisha Lance? OK, hold on. Jean Casarez, did -- was she ever asked about the stain?
And number two, Jean Casarez, in addition to all the chloroform searches, there were searches for neck breaking, ruptured spleen -- hey, Court (ph), give me that list, please -- how to make weapons out of household items. And I`ve got a list we drew up of what she claimed were hers and what she claims were not hers. There are also things for acetone, peroxide, alcohol, shovel, again neck breaking.
What did she say about all the other searches, Jean?
CASAREZ: Some she made, some she said she didn`t make, some she said she didn`t recall. In regard to why she made those other searches, because there were sanitizing issues with the hand sanitizers for children. She was concerned about Caylee. And secondly, she had a dear friend in a serious automobile accident and had to look up internal injuries.
GRACE: Wait a minute! Wait a minute! I got that same e-mail about children eating hand sanitizer. What does that have to do with acetone?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: Cynthia Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something tragic happened. We don`t know how we`re going to handle it.
CINDY ANTHONY: There`s something wrong! I found my daughter`s car today.
I asked where Caylee was and she said she wasn`t there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did she tell you where she was?
CINDY ANTHONY: She said she was with the nanny.
CINDY ANTHONY: I will walk every inch of this earth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The question is, and it`s a yes or no...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes or no, the way you like it? Yes or no, the way you like it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, because I didn`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you input the words into the Google search engine "how to make chloroform"?
CINDY ANTHONY: I did Google search "chloroform."
And I will look in every nook and cranny!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this something that you`re recalling now that you`ve changed your medication?
CINDY ANTHONY: I get bits of pieces and stuff that continues to come back to me in my memory.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is outrageous!
CINDY ANTHONY: It`s not outrageous!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn`t that true, yes or no?
CINDY ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you dare -- thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live at the Orlando, Orange County, courthouse, bringing you the latest ion the trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl.
There`s nothing stronger than a mother`s love. That was entirely proved in court today, as grandmother Cindy Anthony, tot mom`s mother, takes the stand and takes the fall for tot mom, claiming those deadly computer searches were made by her, not tot mom, clearly putting herself in the line of scrutiny not only for a possible perjury claim, but opening her up to speculation if she had anything to do with little Caylee`s disappearance and death.
We are taking your calls live. To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer, also on the story. Ellie, we`ve made this list of what Cindy Anthony claims she searched and what she says she didn`t look up. Tell me the ones she said she did not look up, the ones she doesn`t claim.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Cindy says that she did not look up chloroform habit, didn`t look up self-defense, didn`t look up neck breaking, although she said she remembers seeing a pop-up with an image of a skateboarder that said something to the effect of "a neck- breaking feat." She also said she never looked up shovel, making household weapons out of -- making weapons out of household products. And she also insists she did not look up how to make chloroform.
GRACE: And also, Ellie, what about the fact that we learned that many of these searches were actually bookmarked? For those of you that don`t bookmark, like myself, that means when you find a favorite site that you go to all the time, like Amazon.com or Wal-Mart or Carmax, you bookmark it so you don`t have to go through a whole computer search to get back to it next time when you want to look it up again. A lot of these deadly computer searchers were actually bookmarked.
And Ellie, she`s saying that all of this is because her Yorkie eats bamboo in the back yard? Look, I can add two and two, but I`m getting five! This doesn`t make sense.
JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. She said that what prompted her to search this is that she thought her dogs were getting sick from something they were eating. So she was trying to figure out if maybe -- and this -- she went into this in her deposition, although she didn`t mention it in court. She said that she studied Latin and she thought maybe chloroform and chlorophyll were somehow related, so she said she`d researched that, found out there wasn`t a link.
But she was explaining how, you know, searching for the hand sanitizer led her to wonder if many other household products, like alcohol, acetone could also be difficult -- or also harmful. So that`s why she was searching for those.
GRACE: Also -- to Ben Levitan, joining us out of Raleigh, North Carolina, telecommunications expert. Ben Levitan, not only were some of these deadly searches bookmarked for later ease, like how do you make chloroform -- you can get right to that when you turn on the computer if it`s bookmarked. But also, I want to find out about the fact that the computer showed that some of these sites were gone back to 84 times. How do you do that?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: That seems inconceivable, Nancy. I mean, many -- you know, many people may have searched for peroxide, OK, because there`s lots of reasons (INAUDIBLE) you`ve got to take these searches in context.
But if she was so worried about her dogs, don`t you think that you would put in "animal poisoning" first, or something to that effect? So looking at these searches (INAUDIBLE) and in fairness, you got to look at them in context. When she (INAUDIBLE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you doing any types of searches for chloroform?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
CASEY ANTHONY: I want Caylee!
CINDY ANTHONY: There was a bag of pizza for what, 12 days, in the back of the car.
CASEY ANTHONY: Come on!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
CINDY ANTHONY: Full of maggots and it stunk so bad.
CASEY ANTHONY: My entire life has been taken from me!
CINDY ANTHONY: That smell was terrible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you explain to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury why you did that?
CINDY ANTHONY: I started looking up chloroform -- I mean, chlorophyll, and then that prompted me to look up chloroform.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t understand how you could get those two mixed up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live at the Orange County, Orlando, courthouse, bringing you the latest on the trial of tot mom. Here you see home videos of little Caylee, Caylee`s remains found just 15 houses from the Anthony home, her bones scattered and gnawed by animals. And today, tot mom`s mother takes the fall, claiming she, Cindy Anthony, is responsible for murder-related searches on line at a time when her work records clearly show she was at work.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight Peter Odom, Atlanta defense attorney, Pilar Prinz, also an Atlanta defense attorney. OK, Pilar, what about the threat of perjury? Do you think any prosecutor in their right mind would ever consider going after Cindy? I would not.
PILAR PRINZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, Nancy, I don`t think that any prosecutor`s going to go after her. You`ve got a heartbroken grandmother. I mean, what a position she`s in. She`s lost her precious granddaughter, and now her daughter is facing her life. Nobody`s going to go after her for this.
GRACE: What about it, Peter?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I completely agree. And Nancy, in the final analysis, even if you assume that the grandmother did all the searches for chloroform, there`s still so much other damaging evidence left on the computer that`s still tied to Casey Anthony, it`s not going to make a lick of difference. So why would they go after the grandmother, who in the final analysis, is a sympathetic figure? It`s not going to happen.
GRACE: I agree. When I think of Cindy Anthony, I think of the day she was doubled over, crying on the witness stand when she saw little Caylee`s Pooh blanket and Pooh motif in her bedroom.
PETER ODOM: And essentially, Nancy, she`s a victim twice.
GRACE: Back to Gary Tuchman -- you`re right, Peter. Back to Gary Tuchman. Gary, another issue is -- Jean was just describing how Cindy was talking about these other searches, like ruptured spleen and broken neck, as it related to a friend who was in a car accident. Did anybody find out what friend? When was the car accident? What happened? Were any of those questions asked?
TUCHMAN: That was not asked in court. It was a surprise to all of us. But yes, that`s what Cindy said is, yes, that`s why I was looking up these terrible, violent terms. A friend of mine was in a car accident. I wanted to learn more about it. But prosecutors were very angry (INAUDIBLE) they think that Casey Anthony (INAUDIBLE) looked up those terms when she was planning the murder of the daughter.
GRACE: We are live at the Orange County courthouse, taking your calls, all of us, reporters and lawyers alike.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You testified in the past that you looked up chlorophyll, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: Correct. At the same time I looked up chloroform.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Talk about chlorophyll and chloroform.
CINDY ANTHONY: I told you during my deposition in 2009 that I made those searches.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, CNN`s "AC 360": The lawyer for Cindy and George Anthony told us the Anthonys do not believe their daughter is innocent.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: Come on.
CINDY ANTHONY: There`s something. I found my daughter`s car today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you input the words into the Google engine --
CINDY ANTHONY: And it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- how to make chloroform?
CASEY ANTHONY: Stop it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you seen that stain before?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When?
CINDY ANTHONY: When we bought the car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this something that you`re recalling now you`ve changed your medication since July of 2009?
CINDY ANTHONY: It`s not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many times was that site visited?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eighty-four times.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you on that Web site 84 times?
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m done. I was on it several times. I`ve already answered the question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you on that Web site 84 times?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They love her, they support her and they do not want her to get the death penalty.
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Welcome back, we are live at the Orange County, Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl Caylee.
Motherhood, there`s nothing stronger than a mother`s love, and that was entirely proven in court today. And don`t get me wrong, I`m not talking about tot mom`s love for Caylee, I`m talking about Cindy Anthony`s love for her daughter tot mom.
Cindy Anthony taking the stand swearing under oath that it was her that made those deadly computer searches, not tot mom, even though her own records show, her own work records show she was at work at the time the computer searches were made.
This while CNN national correspondent Gary Tuchman says that Mark Lippman, an esteemed lawyer in that region and all across the country, the attorney for the Anthony family, says the Anthonys know tot mom is not innocent. But will do what they`ve got to do to keep her from the Florida death penalty.
We`ve heard Gary Tuchman`s side joining us tonight from "AC 360." And now joining us, that lawyer, the attorney for the Anthony family, Mark Lippman.
Mark, thank you for being with us. Tell me what happened when you spoke with Tuchman.
MARK LIPPMAN, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE AND CINDY ANTHONY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Sure. It`s pretty simple. Mr. Tuchman and I met yesterday. I actually approached him about another report that he did. And I just wanted to clear up some misinformation that he had put out there.
And when we were talking, he asked the standard question, how are my clients doing, how can they sit there day after day? And then he asked the question, do they think that she`s innocent or not guilty? And I specified not innocent and the totality of it is when I was specifying not innocent, it`s based on the facts that are currently out from the evidence, when the defense team goes on -- out and says that my client, George Anthony molested Casey or he helped hide the body or he helped yell at Casey, when they found Caylee in their opening statement.
Certainly they don`t condone that, they don`t support that. And they`ll never support that. They`ve always maintained the truth, George certainly has said everything that he needed to say to get the truth out as did Cindy. So certainly they`ve never detracted that -- from that. So as far as anything about innocence or --
GRACE: OK, Mark, I don`t understand what you`re saying.
LIPPMAN: OK. Well, I`ll be really affirm.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: This is talking in a circle.
LIPPMAN: Sure, I`m not -- I`ll be very black and white for you. They don`t believe that they will ever support the death penalty in this case. Certainly, when the reporter, Mr. Tuchman, is saying that they don`t believe she`s not innocent, the inference is there that that goes to all the charges that she`s been charged with, including first-degree murder.
They don`t know what happened. They don`t know where they can -- that`s why they sit in court day after day, to get the information, hopefully to get closure and hopefully to get the truth.
GRACE: OK. So bottom line, it sounds like what you`re saying is that Tuchman was right? That they did say we do not believe she`s innocent. But we don`t want her to get the death penalty, and we`ll do what we`ve got to do to stop that.
LIPPMAN: Well, again, as far as Tuchman -- my clients didn`t say anything. I said based on the facts that have been presented so far, there`s nothing out there saying that they`ll support anything that Casey says regarding George.
Now since everything was taken out of context and certainly I`ve never detracted from attorney-client privilege, I`m not going to start doing that now with Mr. Tuchman.
GRACE: OK.
LIPPMAN: My clients still maintain that they will always tell the truth, that they`ve always maintained everything that they`ve said, and they`ve never detracted from anything they`ve said, but they do not want to see --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK, got it.
LIPPMAN: -- take the ultimate sanction.
GRACE: OK. Let me ask you this, today Cindy was on the stand. And I`ve got to tell you that Cindy and George, watching them in court and from studying them over the last three years now, have made such a great impact on me. And to watch what they have gone through, Mark, is brutal. And we don`t even know them.
But when I saw George put his head down in court that day, and Cindy doubled over on the stand, let me tell you, I want nothing but good to come to them. But I`m concerned about -- what Cindy said on the stand today. That she made those searches, and that her computer records at work -- her records at work must be wrong, that she was at home at that time. Not at work.
We know that on the state`s witness list is the computer record keeper for her job, OK? They`re going to have her computer records. They`ll be able to show, I assume, whether she logged on at work that day or not.
What do you think, Mark?
LIPPMAN: Sure. Well, if you listen to the questions that were asked very specifically, it was during the afternoon time, so certainly she could have been there in the morning. And I`m sure that computer expert can say she was there when she left. Cindy said that everything was password protected. The searches were done in the afternoon, Cindy said that it was her anniversary coming up, as well as Casey`s birthday, and that she took off a couple of hours that week.
And certainly she said that she did the search for chlorophyll which then turned into a search for chloroform. But, please, don`t forget that she also said she did not search how to make chloroform.
GRACE: OK.
LIPPMAN: She did not search how to make household weapons.
GRACE: Now let me ask you this, Mark. She also stated that she did a lot of the searches like neck-breaking, ruptured spleen and so forth, because a friend of hers had been in a car crash. Who was the friend?
LIPPMAN: I -- that`s something I can`t discuss under attorney-client privilege.
GRACE: OK, I understand that.
OK. Back to you, Gary Tuchman. Response?
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I stand by my reporting, I think Mark`s a great guy, and I think he`s a great attorney. He did say that to me and he does acknowledge he wasn`t misquoted. So that`s a very important thing.
Do they feel she`s innocent, though? He has a chance to clarify it now, his decision is not to be very direct about it at this point. So I guess we can`t be sure about that. But that is what Mark said yesterday, and I think he acknowledges that, too.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: No, I`m not giving you another day. I`ve given you a month.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The child is not reported immediately to authorities.
UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: Why are you calling now? Why didn`t you call 31 days ago?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s something we look for for foul play.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We are live at the Orlando courthouse bringing you the latest at the end of the courthouse day on the trial of tot mom Casey Anthony. Cindy Anthony, her mother, takes the fall, claiming she`s responsible for those deadly computer searches, even though work records show she was there at the time the searches were made.
To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers." Weigh-in, Bethany.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": I think today`s testimony makes Cindy Anthony look very sympathetic. She`s worried about her dogs who ate bamboo. She`s worried about her friend who was in a car accident. She uses her role as a nurse, a caretaker, to research very specific terms. She potentially takes the fall for her daughter.
Whatever you make of this, whether or not she`s perjuring herself, one thing is sure, this is not a mother who allowed her husband to molest her daughter. It just doesn`t fit that profile.
And I think what we see today in court is that the jurors are going to look at grandma and say, grandma was not living in a household with a child molester. She`s a caretaker, she`s a nurse, she cares about other people. She`s willing to take the fall for her own daughter, she is a protective mother.
This is going to make Casey Anthony look really, really bad.
GRACE: And I`m assuming, Gary Tuchman, that the whole time tot mom just sat there looking unaffected like she couldn`t care less, like -- you know, as her mother was on the stand taking the fall for her, right?
TUCHMAN: Yes, I was looking at her. I wanted to see if she would just look her mother in the eye. That did not seem to happen. She looked very businesslike, looked straight ahead. Looked no different than she has during most of the trial except for the time when they`ve had the graphic pictures of Caylee`s remains that she`s broke down. Most of the rest of the time she just looks straight ahead, like with a poker face.
GRACE: To Susan Constantine, body language expert, joining us also at the courthouse.
Susan, you`ve observed Cindy`s body language and tot mom`s. What did you make of it?
Hold on, can`t get Susan right now, so I`ll go to Andy Khan, the director of the Houston`s Mayor`s Crime Victims Office. He monitors murder-abilia sites.
Andy, now we learn that memorabilia related to this case, even items that belonged to the Anthonys or were signed by the Anthonys way back when are going online fetching hundreds of dollars.
I think I have Andy with me. Is Andy there? OK. When I get Andy`s satellite back up, Liz, let me know. In the meantime, out to the calls, Sherry in Georgia.
Hi, Sherry.
SHERRY, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: Hey, how are you doing?
GRACE: I`m good, dear, what`s your question?
SHERRY: Well, I had a couple but they said I could only pick one. I`m a captive audience with a broken ankle the last few months, so I`ve been watching this. But when Miss Anthony, the mother, said today that she had done the research for the chlorophyll/chloroform on her dog, my instant thought and question would have been, if I was the lawyer was, did you take the dogs to the veterinarian?
That would have been what I would have done being an animal lover. And see what they had to say, and then I would have in turn, what I do, is come home, and then -- you know, what they -- considering what the vet says, I come home and look things up. There`s also numerous websites that -- like WebMD for humans, there`s the same thing for vets, and if you can`t afford to go to a vet, you can get online and talk to a vet for free.
GRACE: Right. So your question would be, why was she not asked about did she take the dog to the vet?
Was she, Ellie Jostad? Did that question ever pop into the prosecution`s mind?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: No, no, it didn`t, Nancy. They didn`t ask Cindy that. They did ask her that in her 2009 deposition and she said she never took the dogs to the vet.
GRACE: To Woodrow Tripp, former police commander. Woody, how many times have you and I gone to court and who does the defense put up as witness number one?
WOODY TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: Momma.
GRACE: I`m not even going to give you the answer, I know what you`re going to say.
TRIPP: Momma, mother, absolutely.
GRACE: OK. Tell them how it works.
TRIPP: A mother`s love, Nancy. Unfortunately, in this case, it seems like the fruit hasn`t fallen far from the tree. But a mother`s love is boundless, as it should be, and I certainly respect that.
GRACE: You know, Woody, how many times -- in cases when you are witnessing cases I prosecuted, we turn around, the courtroom would be empty, except for one person. Sitting on the row directly behind the defendant as close as she can get, one person.
TRIPP: Momma.
GRACE: Mommy.
TRIPP: Absolutely.
GRACE: Mother will be sitting there. From the moment that first juror is struck, until the verdict is read, and the defendant is taken back into the holding cell.
TRIPP: Absolutely.
GRACE: The mother is there. So are you surprised at today`s testimony at all?
TRIPP: No, I`m not. You know this is one of those, you`d almost suspect her to being on the grassy knoll and maybe knowing where Jimmy Hoffa is at. I mean that`s literally to the extent that some will go. So no, it doesn`t surprise me at all.
GRACE: Back to Andy Kahan from Houston. Andy, we were talking earlier -- I think your satellite went down. There`s already memorabilia popping up, the things that belonged to the Anthonys.
ANDY KAHAN, DIRECTOR, HOUSTON MAYOR`S CRIME VICTIMS OFFICE: Yes, Nancy. This is just the beginning of a merchandising and marketing of Casey Anthony, and my perspective, anybody who has items bearing the tot mom`s likeness, like, for example, high school yearbooks will certainly be capitalizing on her infamy.
And the reality is right now, most of the items are manufactured ones which frankly there`s nothing legally the state of Florida can do. But if she`s convicted the floodgates will open, the vultures will be trying to get a piece of the action from the money of the tot mom.
GRACE: Joining me, Stanton Kessler, medical doctor. Consulting medical examiner. Forensic pathologist. The big question is about the accidental drowning defense. Do you think any of the experts so far have advanced that theory for the defense?
DR. STANTON KESSLER, M.D., CONSULTING MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, ASSOCIATE PROF., UNIV. OF SC DEPT. OF PATHOLOGY: No, I haven`t seen it advanced at all. There`s no -- nothing to substantiate it at all.
GRACE: You know, another question, Dr. Kessler, what stands out to you as the evidence that`s -- the strongest suggesting Caylee was intentionally murdered and the evidence the strongest that suggests that it was an accident?
KESSLER: I think she has all these drugs in her hair that they found, rohypnol, Xanax, chloroform. Chloroform in it of itself didn`t do something any of these of drugs --
GRACE: They didn`t fine -- I don`t think they found any drugs in her hair. No, I don`t think they found any drugs in her hair.
KESSLER: They found it. They found it in the trunk.
GRACE: But they did test it.
KESSLER: Right. So they found these, and this tells me she`s been getting these drugs to put her quietly to sleep, I guess, so she can go do her thing. And this is intent. She`s -- and in the process of which, this looks like an accident. I think she probably overdosed her on this, and then covered up this fantastic story of hers.
GRACE: Hold on, Ellie. Let`s go back here to that. Tell me, were any of those drugs found in her tissue or her hair?
JOSTAD: No, they weren`t, Nancy. They tested for a laundry list of drugs, club drugs, tranquilizers, didn`t find any of them in Caylee`s hair or in the trunk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you visit the area in which the remains of Caylee Marie Anthony were found.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The thing about hair testing --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which one of these peaks represents the chloroform?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This peak here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s no -- you know, certainty with how much drugs someone needs to be given or needs to take.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: No, I wouldn`t need to look up the word shovel. Freaking quit publicizing that stuff. Well, I started looking at chlorophyll.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need you on my side.
CINDY ANTHONY: I want to be on your side. I`ve told you that from day one. And then that prompted me to look up chloroform. I know what she is for a mother.
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: I don`t understand how you can get those two mixed up.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: Shut up. Shut up. Shut up.
CINDY ANTHONY: The first time I`d seen Caylee or Casey in over a week. I have a bruise. Am I abused? There`s no bruises on that child. I`ve smelled human decomposition. This was beyond that. There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today.
Can you at least talk about the bag of evidence? Back away from the car. There`s no story, guys. I can`t find my granddaughter. You call her a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) baby one more time. No, I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart.
G. ANTHONY: Listen, get off my property. You`re on my property. Get off my property.
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey, you`re not telling me where she`s at.
CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she`s at. Are you kidding me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not on your property.
G. ANTHONY: You`re on my property. The person who was in the back of my granddaughter`s car is not my granddaughter.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Why is he upset?
CASEY ANTHONY: This is why he`s upset. Back off. OK? Please? Before I lose my husband right now.
G. ANTHONY: I feel sorry for all of you.
CASEY ANTHONY: Why go through all of this? Why put us through all of that doesn`t make sense. This is Caylee`s room. This is very hard to come in now.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Holland, 43, San Antonio, Texas, killed, Iraq. From a family of military vets, awarded Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart, four Meritorious Service Medals.
A 21-year Army vet, served Bosnia, Germany, Honduras, and Haiti. Lost his life on a humanitarian mission to help rebuild Iraq. A veterinarian also with a degree in public health. Loved teaching, the youngest of 10, favorite good-bye joke to friends and family, glad you got to see me.
Leaves behind father, Herbert, a retired army colonel, brothers, Robert, Mark, David, John, sisters, Patricia, Mary, Claire, Katherine, Elizabeth.
Daniel Holland, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. And a special thank you to Florida friend, Patricia Sullivan Boyle. After helping -- asking on our show for help to raise funds for Wesley Glen, Methodist home for the handicap, she goes into her Social Security check to help the handicapped.
Thank you, Patricia.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, at the Orlando courthouse. Where we, in our own way, will be seeking justice for Caylee.
See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
