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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Anthony Family Agony: Tears Flow in Court
Aired June 24, 2011 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, an unbelievably emotional day in Casey Anthony court. Brother Lee breaks down for the very first time, sobbing during questioning.
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: I was very angry at my mom. And I was also angry at my sister. I mean, I was just angry at everyone in general.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Plus, the defense team calls Cindy back to the stand, and the tears flow as photos of precious little Caylee are shown.
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY`S ATTORNEY: On June 16, 2008, did you come home and notice that the pool ladder was up?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, it was attached to the pool.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is this family united and willing to do anything to save Casey`s life? We`ll take your calls.
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mrs. Anthony?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you like to take a break? Do you need a break?
CINDY ANTHONY: No, I`m OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell us why you were angry and who you were angry with, as to why you didn`t go and see Caylee and Casey at the hospital?
L. ANTHONY: I was just angry at everyone in general, that they didn`t -- they didn`t want to include me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you would do anything to protect her?
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is your baby?
CINDY ANTHONY (via phone): There`s something wrong. I saw my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
BAEZ: That will help you understand why no one knew that her child was dead.
CINDY ANTHONY: I overheard her telling Lee that Caylee had been gone for 31 days.
L. ANTHONY: I am in complete -- I`m broken.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the top of the bone, it had been chewed on by animals. This bone here actually is a fragment.
L. ANTHONY: I`m sorry. I was very hurt.
CINDY ANTHONY: Sir, can I have her take the screen down?
BELVIN PERRY, JUDGE: Yes.
CINDY ANTHONY: I can`t look at my granddaughter without getting upset, and I`m trying very hard not to cry.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good evening. I`m Mike Brooks, pinch hitting for Jane Velez-Mitchell, at least for now. Major weather drama knocked out our Orlando studio, but that drama was nothing compared to what happened in the courtroom today. It was a day filled with explosive, emotional testimony.
Casey Anthony`s brother, Lee, finally crumbled under the weight of this family tragedy and ultimately sobbed in court, weeping, his voice choking. Lee said there was bad blood between him and his family, because Casey`s pregnancy was shrouded in secrecy, and that`s why he did not visit his sister, Casey, when she gave birth to little Caylee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
L. ANTHONY: I was -- I was very angry at my mom. And I was also angry at my sister. I mean, I was just angry at everyone in general, that they didn`t -- they didn`t want to include me and -- and didn`t find it important enough to tell me, especially after I had already asked. So I was very hurt, and I didn`t want to -- I don`t think I wanted to believe it, you know? I`m sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: The defense wants to show this family keeps secrets, and that`s why Casey kept the secret of little Caylee`s accidental drowning.
But the prosecution says there was no accidental drowning, that Casey murdered her daughter. So the prosecutor skeptically questions Lee`s waterworks today, pointing out Lee discussed the same issues during his deposition two years ago and didn`t shed a tear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
L. ANTHONY: I don`t want to be here. I don`t want my sister to be here, my parents to be here. It`s -- I`m also -- emotionally and all that stuff in a much different place, you know, than I was a couple years ago. And this is obviously just very, very emotionally draining and very difficult.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROOKS: Casey literally bawled as Lee testified. Before that, their mom, Cindy, also cried on the stand. Could there have been any tissues left in that courtroom?
After this emotion-packed testimony, when they broke for lunch, Jane rode in the elevator with the Anthonys. Jane joins us now by phone from Orlando.
Jane, tell us about that personal insight that you -- that you saw today right there in front of you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL (via phone): Well, I got to tell you, Mike, this is the most extraordinary thing happening right there. There is a monsoon going on in Orlando, Florida, that I am up to almost my knees in water.
BROOKS: Wow.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I have to say the torrential downpour is kind of a metaphor for what happened in court today, a torrential downpour of tears. That`s what it was, tears after tears. Cindy, then Lee, and Casey Anthony, all three of them crying. I sat there in court and watched it. It was unbelievably emotional.
Then we broke for lunch. And I just happened to get into the same elevator as Cindy, George, and Lee and their lawyer. And so here I am. We`re going down 23 floors, and I`m watching this family that is going through hell as the world watches, and I`m watching them.
Now, George, who`s holding a Bible, did something very strange. He doesn`t -- he doesn`t face the elevator doors. He faces the wall of the elevator. He puts his face to the wall of the elevator. To me, this was extraordinary, because it was like a man who is annihilated and just can`t handle, like, facing the world.
And meanwhile, Cindy, who is scrappy, and Lee, who`s young, they`re in animated collaboration, whispering conversation with each other. And I have to say: it occurred to me at that moment, Mike, are they collaborating in a campaign to free and find their precious Casey Anthony, the defendant, not guilty. Are they orchestrating a campaign to get her off, and are they waging that campaign from the witness stand?
And I -- we all have seen they have taken notes. Cindy has taken notes in court. The judge has allowed her to remain in court and take notes. And you`ve got to wonder: is she really journaling, or is she really listening and crafting explanations?
Now, I`m not saying she would lie, but I am saying that it`s extraordinary that everything that she has said on the stand happens to be zingers that hit precisely the point that the prosecutor needs to prove premeditation, which could send their daughter to death. Is it coincidence?
BROOKS: That`s a great question. And did they start this yesterday when Cindy got on the stand?
But Jane, let me tell you this, too. We heard earlier today that Gary Tuchman from our sister station -- sister network CNN, he saw Lee in a sandwich shop right down the street from the courthouse, and he was in there eating alone. What do you make of that?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jean Casarez is with me. And we were all in the courtroom together, so I`m going to hand it off to Jean for a second.
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION" (via phone): It seemed like to me that time stood still. The silence in that courtroom when Cindy was on the stand, and we saw pictures of little Caylee climbing up the ladder to the pool, when Lee took the stand and starting to cry, the whole family was in that courtroom today. Every single one of them, Casey in the defendant`s chair, George and Cindy at points in the gallery, and Lee on the witness stand.
And Jane and Mike, I want to remind you, it was three years ago to the day, June 24, 2008, that prosecutors say little Caylee`s remains were in that wooded area, and the torrential rains that we are having today and have had for almost a week prosecutors will say is indicative of what happened three years ago.
BROOKS: Well, Jane and Jean, don`t go anywhere. Keep the phone there. Even though the signal is not there, we still have you by phone, and it`s great talking to you.
We`ll be taking your calls on this. Call 1-877-JVM-SAYS. That`s 1- 877-586-7287.
Emotion boils over in court today as Cindy and Lee take the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDA DRANE BURDICK, PROSECUTOR: Did your daughter tell you that there was an accident involving the pool?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Outside the sight of scope.
PERRY: Overruled.
CINDY ANTHONY: No, ma`am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was different about the way the emotion with which you answered that question two hours ago, it was different than the emotion you did not display when asked the same question two years ago.
L. ANTHONY: Two years ago, I did not 100 percent hold the belief that Caylee was dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL (on camera): Wow, that was one of the most bizarre moments of the day. This has been a bizarre day. I`ve got to just stop for a second and point out what`s been happening here in Orlando. We were knocked off the air, because there is a monsoon storm out there. And if we just go to a wide shot for a second, I don`t know if you can see it, but it is pouring. I`ve got mud up to my knees just to get into the studio. And we all made it in.
We were actually just talking on our cell phones until just moments ago because of this extraordinary development.
And Jean Casarez, I think it was very clever that you pointed out, wow, this is the kinds of rain that occur in Orlando. And it`s one of the reasons why the body was under water. And people say, "Well, why didn`t we find the body?" This is why. This is -- it`s rough.
CASAREZ (on camera): I mean, it`s coming down in torrents. It`s not just rain. It is -- it`s like somebody is dropping a bucket on your head.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, absolutely. And I want to go to Aphrodite Jones, my dear friend. She`s also the star of "True Crime" on Discovery Investigations.
You and I were sitting next to each other in court. All three of us were in court. I basically felt that this was -- and again, I`m not judging the Anthonys. I don`t know how I would behave if I was in their shoes, but it seemed to me you could say this was an orchestrated campaign to bing, bing, bing, knock out everything that the prosecution has to prove premeditation against Casey Anthony. Tell me.
APHRODITE JONES, DISCOVERY INVESTIGATION`S "TRUE CRIME": Absolutely. Jane. First of all, they knocked out premeditation by saying it wasn`t Casey that was on that computer earlier thinking about chloroform or anything to do with, you know, neck breaking. It was Cindy who was there, not Casey.
Then we have, you know -- all the elements that would and could have been something that was presumed, that Casey Anthony wanted her child dead. No, no, no. They have been able to say they wanted the baby. They were happy about the baby. They had a baby shower for this baby. They were excited and elated at the Anthony household. They`re changing the whole story around in the defense here.
And moving toward, at this point, what, an element where we`re not thinking that she was thinking of getting rid of her child.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And by the way, you could hear the rain. I don`t know if you can hear the rain behind me, but again, I just find it kind of a metaphor. It`s sort of ironic that today it`s raining, and inside the courtroom, it was raining tears.
Lee`s emotional breakdown was really amazing to watch in person, and you may have seen it on television. We`ve got the recap here. The prosecution didn`t bat an eye. They get straight to their objections.
Watch how prosecutors react to everything that Jose Baez tries to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
L. ANTHONY: I was just angry at everyone in general, that they didn`t -- that they didn`t want to include me.
BAEZ: What do you mean, they didn`t want to include you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Analysis (ph).
PERRY: Sustained.
BAEZ: Were you angry because they hid the pregnancy from you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Asked and answered. Leading.
PERRY: Sustained, as deleted.
BAEZ: Why were you angry?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Asked and answered.
BAEZ: Are there other reasons you were angry?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, asked and answered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Linda Kenney Baden, I know you used to be on the defense team. You`re very close to the defense. Looking at this, I did buy his tears. But as far as his story, I thought, well, what`s the point of telling this story that he was so upset with his family for keeping the secret about her pregnancy that he didn`t even go to the birth of his niece?
I think it`s to establish that, "Oh, this is a family that keeps secrets. Therefore, you can believe, jurors, that Casey kept the secret of this accidental drowning, because this is a family that keeps secrets."
Of course, the prosecution says there was no accidental drowning, she murdered the child -- Linda.
LINDA KENNEY BADEN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good evening, Jane.
Jane, a couple things happened here. You know, that jury is sitting there, and they want to hear about the secrets. They want to hear about the mystery. They want answers to the questions.
And let me tell you: every time the prosecutor got up and objected, and objected to things that apparently they knew and the police knew about the family for three years and was not disclosed to the jury, it just made the jury want to know about the secrets and the mystery more.
This was not a concerted effort, because it came very -- out very clear and loud today that everyone has known that the family, there`s something else here, and I`m not sure we`re ever going to find out. Because so far, I haven`t heard the answers from either side.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Listen, it clearly is a dysfunctional family, and I think that the defense is very cleverly using this family dysfunction and kind of making it work for them.
Now, is the defense playing a psychological game with this jury, you think? Trotting out sweet images of little Caylee interacting with Casey in better days, perhaps to soften up the Anthonys. Here`s Jose Baez, and he`s playing a home video. You`ve got to check this out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: I watched that video hundreds of times since I haven`t seen Caylee since 2008. And there`s still a picture of me holding Caylee on the same day, and I recall the skirt. It was like a Hawaiian print. And even though I still have the skirt, I haven`t worn it. I don`t recall wearing it after that. It was kind of like, not popular after that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, there was a video that played. And it`s the famous video we`ve seen a million times of Casey and little Caylee playing, and they`re romping on the floor.
And I`ve got to go to Leonard Padilla. Leonard Padilla, is the defense playing a very clever psychological game here? There are some that didn`t buy the tears. I mean, when I left court, I asked people who were waiting in line and who`d seen it, "Do you buy the tears?"
And all of the people said, "No. We feel sorry for the Anthonys, but we do feel they`re not telling the truth. They`re saying what will get Casey off." What do you think?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Jane, it`s a challenge. It`s Cindy against the prosecutor. Cindy rules the roost. Cindy is not going to be denied winning this game. She don`t even have a clue about anything other than, "I`m going to win this, and Lee, you`re going to get up there. And here`s a handkerchief. You`re going to shed a tear. And you`re going to do this, George. And by golly, we`re going to get this thing won, and we`re going to walk out of here with our heads held up high."
And it`s the same thing that she did when she came out of that jail. She won, because she was out on bail and didn`t have to give up a thing.
She chloroformed that child. Not because she wanted her dead...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... panelists. OK, we`re in a very rainy Orlando. Up next, the end game .
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(LEE ANTHONY GRABBING HIS HEAD ON STAND)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I have to say, this was a day of absolutely jaw- dropping moments. And one of the most jaw-dropping moments happened in court after Lee`s testimony.
Watch this carefully. I think we have it. Lee gets off the stand, and he`s clearly very distraught. and Jose Baez goes over to him and pats him on the back a couple OF times.
Now, is Jose Baez actually comforting Lee Anthony? I mean, just a few weeks ago. In his opening statement, Jose Baez was publicly accusing Lee Anthony of attempting to fondle his sister and calling his dad a child molester. And then today, so it was all, "There, there." And you know, it goes back. You made a great point when you saw them in the elevator today, they`re all buddy-buddy.
Mike Brooks, murder cases make for strange bedfellows. What do you make of this chumminess between Lee and Jose Baez, Mike?
BROOKS: Well, when I saw that today, I almost fell out of my chair, Jane, because it`s exactly what you said. On May 24, he`s accusing him of attempting to fondle his sister and calling his dad a child molester. And then today, it was, there, there, and you know, it goes back. You made a great point when you saw them in the elevator today. Is this some grand scheme, some grand plan they`re putting together to try to get Casey off?
And then I go to what Leonard, Mr. Padilla said, that it could be Cindy, you know, trying to orchestrate everything. But what you said today and what you saw, I thought, was interesting. And then -- and, especially after seeing that earlier, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes. It was really unbelievable. An eye-opener.
I want to go back to Linda Kenney Baden. You used to be on this defense team. The judge now announced today, hey, we`re in the end game. A week from tomorrow, we`re going to be on verdict watch. OK?
Here is the rundown for all of you at home. The defense case is going to wrap Wednesday or Thursday. This is the plan. Rebuttal case, one or two days, closing arguments by Friday, 30 to 45 minutes of jury instruction. So next weekend, we`re going to be on verdict watch. To me, Linda Kenney Baden, this says Casey Anthony ain`t taking the stand.
BADEN: Well, I don`t know about that, Jane. I think Jose Baez -- and this is why I really, again, fought the judge. Jose Baez said maybe Wednesday or Thursday. He`s not going to tell this judge what is going to happen, whether she`s going to take the stand, because I doubt whether he`s made that decision himself.
And you know what? If he`s already got his jury charges there, he`s already made up his mind, he`s going to sentence the majority (ph), he shouldn`t be sitting. He`s supposed to wait for the whole case.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Settle down, settle down.
OK, Leonard Padilla, who`s next up at bat? I think they`re going to end with a bang. And I`ve got to wonder, considering how much this family has already helped Casey today, could George be the finale? Answer quickly, please.
PADILLA: No. No, here`s what`s going to happen. This whole thing is going to be over Niagara Falls, over Victoria Falls because they`re going to be Kronk on the stand. Somebody is going to put him on the stand, and it`s going to hurt both of them, the prosecution as well as the defense. You watch. Mark my words. Kronk`s going to screw it up for everybody.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And by the way, we just got some video that we have here in the studio, and I see my hair is a little messed up. And that`s because I marched through the rain to get to the studio, and it was pouring, and I`ve got mud up to my knees. So I hope that you just consider that and don`t judge me too harshly on this particular evening.
Up next, more shockers for you. And I`m not talking about my hair.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Out of the way, cameraman!
JEFF ASHTON, PROSECUTOR: So you`re not of the opinion that the body had only been there for two weeks, correct? * (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get out of the way, cameraman. Yes.
JEFF ASHTON, PROSECUTOR: So, you`re not of the opinion that the body had only been there two weeks, correct?
JANE BOCK, FORENSIC BOTANIST: It`s possible.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let him go. Let him go. Let him go. Let him go.
JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, PRESIDING OVER CASEY ANTHONY CASE: Because you cannot use the broad blanket of the theory of the defense to just get any and everything you need.
ASHTON: Hard to remember something you did two years ago.
LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: absolutely.
LINDA DRANE-BURDICK, PROSECUTOR: Did you input the word into the Google search engine "how to make chloroform"?
CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t recall putting in "how to make chloroform" but I did Google search "chloroform".
JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: Can you tell us why you were angry and who you were angry with as to why you didn`t tell them that Caylee and Casey (INAUDIBLE)
L. ANTHONY: I was just angry at everyone in general that they didn`t want to include me.
BAEZ: June 16th, 2008, were you having any marital problems?
GEORGE ANTHONY, FATHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Shut up. I`m talking. I am talking.
BAEZ: Would you like to take a break? You need a break?
C. ANTHONY: No, I`m ok.
PERRY: If your theory of defense is ever-changing, maybe you just simply need to tell me what your theory of defense is, at least somebody try to explain it to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST: All right, well, we want to show you, if we can, take a look -- there`s a storm under way here in Orlando. It`s wild.
And this video doesn`t even give you a hint of how bad it is. We have mud up to our knees. The very kinds of rains that produced the lake that was one of the reasons why little Caylee`s body was not discovered for months, because it was under so much water.
So if you find that hard to believe -- I used to; I thought why didn`t they find the body? Now I can see, it`s this monsoon going on here. Ok.
Now, there was a monsoon of tears also in the courtroom today. And tonight, I have to tell you, I believe this was the most emotional day yet of the Casey Anthony trial. You had Cindy, you had Lee, you had Casey Anthony; all three of them crying in court, wiping away the tears, sobbing, weeping.
Lee Anthony totally lost it, talking about how his family left him out of Casey`s pregnancy. And why he didn`t visit his sister or his new niece in the hospital because he felt hurt. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
L. ANTHONY: I was very angry at my mom. And I was also angry at my sister. I mean I was just angry at everyone in general that they didn`t -- they didn`t want to include me. And that they didn`t find it important enough to tell me, especially after I had already asked.
So I was -- I was very hurt. And I didn`t want to -- I don`t think I wanted to believe it, you know. I`m sorry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, so does this help the defense prove that this family, the Anthony family, is full of secrets and dysfunction? And that is why Casey learned to lie and hit the accidental drowning that the prosecution thinks is a lie, from the world because she had been taught to lie.
I want to go to noted criminal defense attorney Jay Hebert who is with me in this incredible storm. Jay, was this a family that was orchestrating in your opinion, a campaign to free their beloved Casey Anthony, the defendant, and were they waging that campaign on the witness stand?
JAY HEBERT, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, what we saw today, Jane, like we`re seeing today, Hurricane Casey is alive and well here in Orlando. And what we saw is we saw two witnesses come in and be very passionate and really talk about their family and how their family is organized and how this affected their family.
But more importantly, we saw Cindy Anthony taking notes. We have seen her throughout the entire trial; all of us who have been in that courtroom were observing it. What is interesting about that is the jurors get to take notes, but the jurors have to leave that note pad on their seat every night. Cindy Anthony gets to take the notes home. Whether that`s because she`s studying this trial, because she`s preparing, she`s getting to listen to all of the evidence as it`s presented.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, your point?
HEBERT: My point is she`s able to then sit down and discuss with whoever she wants to, who is going to be on that witness stand, what the testimony was. She`d be able to disclose specific information, and respond without stepping on any toes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, ok. Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney, you have been very close to the defense, essentially what a log of people are saying is this was orchestrated to get on the stand and to knock out all the elements of premeditation that the prosecution has accumulated by Cindy and Lee falling on their sword and taking responsibility for all these suspicious things.
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Jane, two points. One, Jose Baez saved the day today in a beautiful, effective, advocate way. He took control, and he took apart the prosecutor`s theory as he should. Number one, there is a recent -- a claim of recent fabrication by the prosecutor.
Is it contrite testimony by Cindy? Today, he meticulously demonstrated to the jury that in fact, Cindy made the statements within 24 hours of being questioned by the police. This is not orchestrated, contrived, conspiracy theories that you`re coming up with now or anybody else and nobody -- nobody can take away from Jose Baez what these witnesses said today.
Now with that --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m going to agree with you. I`m going to agree with you because a lot of people underestimated Jose Baez, and they were like, he`s never done a capital case before. He seemed a little -- that`s one smart guy. Ok, I have met him. I`ve had dinner with him. I`ve talked to him.
He is smart. And don`t underestimate Mr. Jose Baez. Let me tell you that. Today was living proof of that.
Now, there was a moment in court today -- speaking of the other side - - the prosecution, when it sounded like the prosecution was literally calling everything that Cindy Anthony said a lie. Listen to this fascinating exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: On June 16th, 2008, did you come home and notice that the pool ladder was up as depicted in the photograph?
C. ANTHONY: You mean on the --
BAEZ: The ladder?
C. ANTHONY: Yes, it was attached to the pool.
BAEZ: And was that a highly unusual event for you to see that?
C. ANTHONY: Yes, so much that I called George at work to see if he had left the pool ladder up because I also noticed that the side gate was open at the same time.
DRANE-BURDICK: You said you called George when you made that discovery.
C. ANTHONY: Yes, I did.
DRANE-BURDICK: Did you call George from the house phone?
C. ANTHONY: I`m not sure if I used the house phone or my cell phone, but I did call George.
DRANE-BURDICK: Do you recall if you left a message for him that day or did he pick up when you called?
C. ANTHONY: I know I spoke to him. I can`t remember if I spoke to him after I had left the message or not, but I know that we had communicated.
DRANE-BURDICK: You acknowledge as well that as it relates to dates in June of 2008, that you have already made other errors.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, other errors. The prosecution really desperate to try to show the inconsistencies because if you believe everything that Cindy said there`s no premeditation. She`s the one Googling, she`s the one who noticed on the 16th, that crucial day, that the ladder was left in the up position, which would allow this little girl to get in the pool and drown, even though before she said it might have been a totally different day.
So I have to go to Michael Christian, my colleague who has been inside court for this whole trial. We`re in the end game. We could be in verdict watch by this time next week or next Saturday. What is the defense going to do as the piece de resistance? Is it going to be George and what could he deliver?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, "IN SESSION": You know they could call George. We don`t know. They won`t tell us. And we`ll have to wait and find out. But they could call George. And this question of George molesting Casey is probably not over. Now, if they call him and ask him about it, which they didn`t do when they had a chance to do it on cross-examination; they let the prosecution do it, George denied it. If they call him back, he almost certainly will deny it again. But even if he denies it in a way that looks edgy or looks like he`s trying to avoid something that helps the defense.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Leonard Padilla, what do you think their piece de resistance? The defense, the capper, what is it going to be?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: What he just said about George, I said months ago. George will deny it in a manner that the jury will think he`s lying. He`ll fall on the sword. Cindy has, Lee has. It`s going to be George.
Now, they`re both afraid to put Kronk on. They`re both afraid. But the think about it is the girl died from an overdose of chloroform. She didn`t intend to kill her, and the family thinks it`s rotten that they`re saying something about the tape killing her. They don`t think she intended to kill her. It was an accident as far as they`re concerned even though the law says something else. It wasn`t the tape. The tape was put on there to make it look like a kidnapping by Zenaida Gonzalez.
When we first got back there in August three years ago, Cindy came up with Jesse Grund as a suspect behind the kidnapping; then it went to the Zenaida story. She had everything she threw up against the wall trying to convince us of something, and every time that we came back to the house and we said that isn`t it, Cindy, she`d come up with another story.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think I understand what you`re saying. You`re saying that the family feels justified because they really don`t feel that she murdered -- they feel that the child died accidentally at her hands and that she covered it up. And that`s why they feel justified to say whatever they are going to say because they feel that it`s an unfair situation for their daughter.
I hear you.
Nancy Grace is following the case extremely closely, as she always does, and she`s going to have all the latest dramatic developments coming up in just about 20 minutes. So stay with us. We`re not done yet.
We`re going to make predictions about Roy Kronk, ok. And you won`t believe what we think is going to happen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s very strange to be here because you have such feelings for Caylee. You don`t even know her but you have such feelings for her that we`re here for her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is the line for getting into the trial if you`re a member of the public. These folks start lining up at 5:00 in the morning. They have coolers. They have -- take a look at this, it`s like a picnic right here. They wait all day long.
Then late in the afternoon, an official takes down their names. They have to show identification. And then they come back the next day and wait in line again early in the morning, and that`s when they`re allowed into court.
Is it worth it? Is it worth it to wait here all this time in order to get in?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Absolutely
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And those ladies that I was just interviewing right there, I asked them, what do you think about the Anthony family`s testimony on the stand? Those ladies said they didn`t buy it. They did not buy Cindy`s explanation of the chloroform searches, et cetera.
I also have to wonder, is the jury -- how are they taking all this in? Are they getting tears fatigue? It`s a new term we coined here -- a tear fatigue at this point? Is all this emotion on the witness stand losing its impact?
Now, here is Jose Baez one more time, and this is another weepy moment. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: Do you know what that photograph is of, Mrs. Anthony?
C. ANTHONY: Yes.
BAEZ: Would you like to take a break? Do you need a break?
C. ANTHONY: No, I`m ok.
BAEZ: Can you tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what that is?
C. ANTHONY: It`s a picture of Caylee walking up the ladder, and I`m behind her, holding her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I want to emphasize again, I am not in any way, shape, or form judging Cindy Anthony. I have compassion for her. Who knows how any of us would behave giving this hellish, horrible situation that she`s been put in? But a lot of those women that I`ve talked to who were waiting in line said they really don`t buy the tears.
Susan Filan, this is like a stage play, is it not? A murder trial is always a bit of theater, and I did hear people whispering, oh, she should win an Oscar for this. That was what somebody -- I overheard somebody saying that. So could jurors be thinking the same thing?
SUSAN FILAN, LEGAL EXPERT: Well, I don`t think she`s credible, but here is the problem with not believing her now. Now you can`t believe her for the state, either. When the state loses a key witness like the grandmother because the defense puts her up and she basically blows up, I think it`s a problem for the case.
But here is the other thing. I think it makes her daughter look even guiltier because why at the 11th hour does her mother have to rush in and lie to save her life? Is the case going so badly? Did Cindy Anthony see convictions coming a mile away and say, uh-oh, I better start lying to try to save her life?
I think it actually makes Casey look guiltier, but I think it`s a problem for the state`s case. Because if you can`t believe her now, you can`t believe her before.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Mike Brooks, you have seen so many of these trials. Do you think this strategy could backfire?
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It could, but keep in mind, the jury hasn`t seen, and they don`t know what we know. They have want seen Lee Anthony at the memorial service crying out, "CMA, CMA." They haven`t seen all that. They haven`t seen the pre-trial hearings when there was a lot of fireworks between the attorneys and Cindy and George. They haven`t seen any of that.
They`re just getting a fresh look, if you will, just with kind of blinders on, looking at them there in court. So you know, how are they seeing it right now?
Look, they were getting put to sleep with all of the forensics in the last two days. I tell you what, I bet you they haven`t gone -- put their notebooks down, especially juror number four. But I tell you, who knows what is going on inside their heads. They`re going to be back tomorrow, and it`s going to be a full day. Who is going to be on tomorrow? That`s the question.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And it`s not -- it`s not going to be fun, deliberating over the Fourth of July holiday, which is what we`re set up for right now. And they might resent, who knows, the defendant for that, or maybe the prosecution.
Now speaking of the prosecution, they did score a couple hits in their cross-examination today, but it was a big day for the defense. And there was a lot of questions that the prosecutors just didn`t ask Cindy. For example, why didn`t they bring this up from three years ago?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
C. ANTHONY: He asked me is every day harder, or am I disappointed or do I lose faith or whatever or lose hope. I don`t lose hope because I know she`s alive and I know she`s out there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Jay, they`re making a big case, the defense, they didn`t look anywhere but Casey. That`s because this family was saying that she was alive.
HEBERT: They relied on the representations of their daughter. That`s what they bought into. And she continued to sell it, even after she was incarcerated. We saw that on the tapes.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, absolutely. Anthony family meltdown. We`re going to have more next, and it`s been a wild day here.
The storm easing a little bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DRANE-BURDICK: www.sci-spot.com/chemistry/chloroform; how many times was that site visited?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to the history, 84 times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: www.sci-spot.com/chemistry/chloroform.htm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how many times does it show that that Web site was visited.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the prosecution, of course, said Casey Anthony used chloroform to knock out and poison little Caylee and they claim their computer expert has come up with 84 searches for chloroform. But the defense has very, I think, effectively disputed that.
Michael Christian, what do you know?
CHRISTIAN: There are 84 searches for chloroform, according to one of the computer programs that looked into the deleted Internet files. However, there is another computer program that was also used and that one doesn`t count 84 on one day, which sounds very incriminating. Instead, it counts sequentially. So it says, for example, on that particular day, it might have been the 84th time they visited this Web site or this MySpace page, but not 84 hits on one day. 83 would have been a couple of days before. 82 would have been a couple of days before. It looks much less incriminating with that recovery program.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jay Hebert, it seems like this was an excellent week for the defense. It is their case, but are we giving up on premeditation here, a conviction on premeditation?
HEBERT: No, I don`t think so at this point because the jury is going to be given some instructions that not only talk about first degree murder, but felony murder. And in Florida, felony murder says if in the course of a commission of a felony -- aggravated child abuse -- a child is killed as a direct and approximate result of that act, you can still get first-degree murder. That`s going to be an important instruction down the pipe.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I didn`t really grasp that, but somebody explained it to me in a very simple way. Murder One, you can have premeditated murder, like I planned it, right; or you can have this felony murder, right; and then felony murder plus aggravated child abuse equals -- felony murder plus aggravated child abuse, ok, that equals first-degree murder. You don`t have to show premeditation.
There is two ways to get to first degree murder. Is that essentially -- that`s the point.
HEBERT: That`s it in a nut shell.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. I want to go back to Susan Filan, I`ve been pretty blown away with the effectiveness, not only of the defense this week, but the flat-footedness of the prosecutors in effectively combating some of the things that the defense has said.
They haven`t -- they did occasionally pull out the book and say, here`s what you said during this deposition, they did that with Lee. But they didn`t do that with Cindy. And there were a number of times that they could have really honed in on her inconsistencies far more clearly. Why do you think they didn`t do that?
FILAN: Because I don`t know that they`re ready to paint her as a pure liar. That could be very problematic for them.
And I think what is happening here is we`re really seeing the case as it truly is, a case is only as good as the facts that there are. And this case has a huge hole in it -- no cause of death. And the medical examiner said she infers homicide, she infers murder from the fact that the child was dumped in a plastic bag with duct tape over her mouth. But we still don`t know how she died. So that doesn`t rule out accident.
So even if the defense is bumbling and the prosecution (INAUDIBLE) -- the case doesn`t get any better.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Final thoughts in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: A prediction about the state`s upcoming rebuttal case from criminal defense attorney Jay Hebert. Take it away.
HEBERT: Yes. Well, I think, answering your last question. I think what we`re going to have to do is wait and see what happens in rebuttal. They maybe didn`t attack Lee and Cindy because they`re going to grab as much evidence, for example, the computer from her work, maybe it is there, maybe they can bring it in, reconstruct whether or not she was at work when she says she was at home searching for this stuff, to discredit her on the issue of is she coming to her daughter`s defense.
It is only human nature. It is only common sense. You said a moment ago, how can we possibly walk in the shoes of the Anthony family?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Of course, yes.
HEBERT: This is still about Caylee.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. And I have to say, again, no matter what I`m saying I feel tremendous compassion for this family. It is our job as journalists to question things, but that doesn`t mean that our hearts don`t go out to them.
"Nancy Grace" is up next.
END
