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Nancy Grace
George Anthony Cries, Casey Glares
Aired June 29, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the case of 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct- taping, placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
The murder trial of tot mom Casey Anthony under way. Tot mom`s lawyer tells a stunned courtroom she has nothing to do with Caylee`s death, but that her own father, ex-cop George Anthony, shows up with Caylee`s dead body, then George hides it, leaving it to rot. Tot mom also claims father George and brother Lee both sexually molest her. The Anthony family covers up for tot mom under oath.
Bombshell tonight. Father George Anthony literally breaks down on the stand, telling a packed courtroom in the beginning, he didn`t want to believe his own daughter, tot mom, could murder little Caylee. But those days are gone.
As tot mom looks on cold as stone, George testifies through tears he can still close his eyes and smell a rotting body in tot mom`s car trunk, and how tot mom, quote, "always lived on the edge," the defense grilling father George over his suicide attempt, trying to make the jury believe George is the one guilty of murder. Well, it didn`t work!
Then in a courtroom shocker, tot mom breaks down and cries herself. But it wasn`t over her mother, her father, her brother or even little Caylee`s murder. Tot mom only cried when a so-called grief counselor tells the jury what poor tot mom had been through!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: I wanted to -- I needed at that time to go and be with Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you expressed that in the note?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, I did, because I believe I failed her.
A deep -- a deep hurt inside, tears, the whole gamut of just an emotional loss, a breakdown inside of me, and seeing what my wife and my son went through.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Up to that moment, had you held out the hope that Caylee would be found alive?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Absolutely. Every day from July 15th until the day we were told it was Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need a break, Mr. Anthony?
BREMNER: No, sir. I need to get through this. I need to have something inside of me get through this!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Father George Anthony literally breaks down on the stand, telling a packed courtroom that at the beginning, he didn`t want to believe his own daughter, his own flesh and blood, tot mom, Casey Anthony, could murder little Caylee. But those days are gone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of these media appearances stopped when the allegations of abuse came up, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Relevance.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Please let me answer this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possible penalties of child molestation.
GEORGE ANTHONY: I never would do anything like that to my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is, you would never admit to it, would you, sir.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Sir, I would never do anything to harm my daughter in that way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You had smelled that car and you smelled human decomposition.
GEORGE ANTHONY: I`m 100 percent positive. I didn`t want to believe back then that my daughter could be capable of taking the life of her daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "She was so close to home. Why was she there? Who placed her there? Why is she gone? Why? For months, you and I, especially you, always questioned why. I want this to go away for Casey. What happened? Why could she not come to us, especially you? Why not Lee? Who is involved with this stuff for Caylee?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Very hard to accept that I don`t have a granddaughter anymore.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you consulted with your client about that, and does she consent in the request for a mistrial? Unfortunately, they are not here. Ms. Anthony is at counsel table alone. You are appearing by phone, but I will ask them whenever they choose to arrive.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I can answer that now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
CASEY ANTHONY: I agree with Ms. Finnell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, ma`am.
CASEY ANTHONY: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live, camped out here in the Orlando courthouse, the whole team in the courtroom today, bringing you the latest at the end of the courthouse day.
Straight out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." Jean, father George back on the stand. Will this man ever catch a break? Today, Jose Baez grilling him about his attempted suicide, trying to make the jury believe he`s the one guilty of murder, not tot mom. Do you think it worked?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy, in three years, we have never heard what George Anthony said on the stand today, defense prodding him and pushing him, question after question about inconsistencies in regard to the trash, that that was the smell in the car. And finally, George Anthony said, after being asked, You always talked about the innocence of your daughter, and he said, Look, I never wanted to believe that my daughter was capable of killing her granddaughter. (SIC)
GRACE: At one moment, Jean Casarez, George Anthony on the stand, describing the smell in that trunk -- and when he opened it up, fearful that his daughter or granddaughter or both were dead in the trunk, it smelled so bad -- that he could hear the maggots. And Maggots were everywhere and they were making a cracking sound, a crackling sound like hamburger thrown on a frying pan. That was pretty realistic.
CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, when he said that -- and it was silent in that courtroom and you could hear what he was testifying to. And Nancy, through that testimony, he gained so much credibility because we learned more about his law enforcement career in Ohio than we ever had before.
GRACE: Out to Natisha Lance, also in court today. Everyone, we are camped outside the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year- old little girl, Caylee.
You know, the whole time when George Anthony was bent down crying on the stand, tot mom never shed a tear. She never looked anything but cold as stone. But then at one point -- look at that! OK, wait a minute. Wait a minute.
To Aaron Brehove, body language expert, senior instructor, Body Language Institute. Do you see this, Aaron? What`s going on here, Aaron?
AARON BREHOVE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Well, we see Casey here. This is how she`s been acting the entire trial. It`s more of the same, completely inappropriate. And her father`s breaking down and she`s sitting there stone-faced.
Again, it`s inappropriate body language, when she doesn`t show emotion, when jurors can`t handle what they`re saying about her daughter, but she`s stone-faced again. And you have George Anthony, a stand-up guy, a straight shooter, and his emotion has always been right to the front. And you can see exactly what he`s thinking, exactly what he`s saying. He`s been very forthcoming. And we see it again. He`s forthcoming. And he actually comes out and breaks down and cries here, and we have stone-faced Casey.
GRACE: In the end -- back to you, Jean Casarez. It goes on and on about the alleged molestation. And I got to tell you something. I`m really surprised the state didn`t throw a punch and give it to Baez right in the snoot because the defense, Baez, kept saying -- George kept saying, I would never molest my daughter, I would never do that. And Baez, with this big smirk, said, Oh, you just wouldn`t admit it, isn`t that right? Man, I thought he was going to get it right in the kisser, Jean.
CASAREZ: And you know how the question came? There is no evidence of it, so the question came from, Prosecutors asked you in their case -- that`s how the question came from the defense.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. To Ellie Jostad. So where do we stand, Ellie? What`s going to happen next? Is the defense going to close it down without putting tot mom on the stand, never fulfilling the promises they made in opening statement to prove that George Anthony found the body, fished it out of the pool, brought it into the house dripping wet, dead, that he`s the one that did the cover-up, that Roy Kronk is the one that hid the body somewhere for months?
Is any of this going to ever be proven, the fact that they claim George and Lee molested tot mom? None of that`s been proved!
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, tomorrow`s going to be the big day. This is when we`re going to find out if Casey Anthony is going to take the stand and get all this information out there that the defense promised in their opening statement. So far, we don`t know if she`s going to testify, but the defense did say they`re going to rest tomorrow. So that`s the big question. Is she going to explain this? Is she going to explain the whole theory of the defense?
GRACE: And another bombshell today. Has the father of Caylee been located? Out to Diane Dimond, special correspondent, "Newsweek" and the DailyBeast. Diane, what have you learned?
DIANE DIMOND, "NEWSWEEK"/DAILYBEAST: Well, I`ve learned, Nancy, that there is a housewife in Massachusetts who says she believes -- 100 percent she believes that she is Caylee Anthony`s grandmother. Her son died in a car accident in 2007. And what has Casey always said? That the father of her child died in a car accident in 2007.
You just see his picture there. I am so taken, Nancy, with how much he looks like Lee Anthony. He looks like Tony Lazzaro. He looks like Morales. He looks like all of the young men that Casey went out with.
Is it true? I don`t know. We need a DNA test. And this woman -- her name is Donna MacLean, cannot get anyone in Orlando to agree to do a grandparent`s DNA test on her yet.
GRACE: OK, Diane, why is that? It would seem to me that there would be plenty of people who wanted to know who the biological father is.
DIMOND: Yes. Especially, Nancy, because this is the very first person to ever come forward and say, Hello? It`s me. My son told me about his girlfriend, Casey. They were going to have a baby girl. The father was a cop. The parents were Cindy and George. And so I think when the time comes, when the trial is over, this is the next big story.
GRACE: Is there a resemblance? According to sources, Caylee looks very much like the grandfather, the grandmother, the biological grandmother. Has the father of little Caylee been found?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something had happened to Caylee, and Casey was lying.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Sir, definitely something happened to Caylee. She`s no longer with us. And Casey was the last one that I saw with Caylee. One and one adds up to two, sir, in my mind. And no matter how you`re trying to spin it, I`m upset because my granddaughter is missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Anthony, you were questioned by the prosecutor in reference to ever molesting your daughter. Do you recall those questions?
GEORGE ANTHONY: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t recall being asked by Mr. Ashton if you had ever molested your daughter?
GEORGE ANTHONY: You have to be specific, sir, when that might have happened, could have happened. You`re not being specific, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First day of trial. You were asked.
GEORGE ANTHONY: In a question, yes, sir. And I never would do anything like that to my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sex with a child under the age of 12 years old is life in prison.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Relevance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re aware of the possible penalties of child molestation, don`t you, sir. You, of course, would never admit to molesting your child, would you, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Argumentative.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Overruled. You can answer the question, if you can.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Sir, I never would do anything like that to my daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is, you would never admit to it, would you, sir.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Sir, I would never do anything to harm my daughter in that way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Only in that way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Relevance.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Please let me answer this.
And I also know that I called my family -- my sisters, my mother and father, basically, to tell them good-bye, even though I didn`t say that. I just told them not to worry. I wanted to -- I needed at that time to go and be with Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you expressed that in the note.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, I did, because I believe I failed her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Need a break, Mr. Anthony?
GEORGE ANTHONY: No, sir. I need to get through this. I need to have something inside of me get through this!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need a break, Mr. Anthony?
GEORGE ANTHONY: No, sir. I`m fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Diane Dimond. Diane, hearing that -- I mean, what parent wouldn`t want to go to their child even in death? Just thinking about if I lost one of the twins, I would want to go and be with them. I mean, there`s no doubt in my mind. Why is that so hard for Baez to comprehend and somehow twist it into something horrible, like George Anthony is the one responsible for the murder of Caylee?
DIMOND: You know, I think Jose Baez set back his case today, Nancy, moreso than any other day. You and I sat in that courtroom together. I have watched it, I know as you have watched it. But this testimony today was so emotional and so raw and so real, so unlike all the other manipulated sort of testimony that we`ve heard that how in the world can they give a closing argument saying he molested his daughter and then hid his granddaughter`s body?
Look at the grief on his face about his granddaughter. He wants to go to heaven with her. I just think Baez has pointed himself -- painted himself right into a corner.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." At one point this morning, I couldn`t believe that it was Jose Baez asking the questions. He was eliciting so much bad testimony about tot mom from George Anthony. I was stunned. It was, like, Well, didn`t you tell the cops that you thought that tot mom had done something to Caylee and that she was lying? Didn`t you say, tot mom always lived on the edge with her party lifestyle? All the testimony, the bad facts, he dragged out of George. George didn`t volunteer that about tot mom.
CASAREZ: No, we heard a summary of not only his state of mind, but what happened. And he also said that Casey was the last person to be with Caylee -- Sir, A plus B equals C. And a lot of people have told me, Nancy, that they think there was a turning point during his testimony, that there`s going to be a penalty phase now.
GRACE: You know, another thing. I don`t know if you guys noticed this or not, but -- and I just got an e-mail from one of our viewers, Linda in Menlo. Let`s roll that footage, Liz, when George Anthony finally, beaten down, broken, leaves the stand, tot mom gives him the most evil -- look at that! Look at that smirk! When her father is broken, he can hardly get up and walk down the steps and get off the stand.
Now, come on! Leslie Suppini (ph), clinical psychologist. That`s got to work against her if the jury saw the way she smirked when her father leaves the stand in tears!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY: I have nothing to hide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You sparred with Mr. Baez here today.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, sir.
You are arguing with me, sir.
I`m going to answer this to you, sir.
You`re trying to take this joy of life away from me, sir, and you can`t do it anymore.
I can close my eyes at the moment, sir, and I can smell that again. The decomposition that I smelled in the trunk of my daughter`s car smelled like human decomposition.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s why you drove that car home.
GEORGE ANTHONY: You are arguing with me, sir. How dare you, sir, try to tell me that I had nothing to hide, sir. Never have.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live outside the Orange County courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her little girl. Today, her father back on the stand. Tot mom smirks as her father breaks down in tears.
Jean Casarez, what else happened?
CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, there was a grief expert. This was a Ph.D. to talk about how someone copes with grief. Now, the prosecutors opposed this. They objected. She never assessed Casey Anthony. They were hypothetical questions. But the fact is, they had to be questions of evidence. And there`s no evidence on sexual abuse, so it had to be evidence solely of how one grieves when a disaster has happened.
GRACE: Hey, Liz, let`s see the video of tot mom on the shopping spree, buying cases of brie and push-up bras.
Unleash the lawyers. Joe Jackson, defense attorney, New York, Darryl Cohen, defense attorney, former lawyer for fiance Jesse Grund, joining us out of Atlanta.
Darryl, how`s that work, that you put on a grief specialist that has never treated, even seen or talked to the defendant? How does that happen? That`s completely inadmissible.
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, is it inadmissible, it`s inexcusable. I do not understand where Jose Baez and his team were coming from.
GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Now, hold on. Hold on. It`s not just him. So far, I have agreed with almost every single ruling Belvin Perry made. But I don`t care if this is the defense`s only theory, it`s still not admissible. That woman had never treated her. And bottom line, Joey Jackson, the woman couldn`t tell us anything anyway. All she could say is, basically, there`s no playbook to grief.
JOE JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, listen -- and that`s what the prosecution will do. If they`re using a grief counselor to attempt to explain how people grieve because the theory is it`s consciousness of guilt, she was doing things inappropriately, a good prosecutor in closing will hammer the point home.
GRACE: Hey!
JACKSON: This person didn`t treat her or anything else.
GRACE: Joe...
JACKSON: And as a result of that...
GRACE: The prosecution didn`t wait for closing. They hammered it in cross that everything she did is also consistent with denial of guilt.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: I needed at that time to go and be with Caylee because I believe I failed her. My emotional state even through today is very hard to accept that I don`t have a granddaughter anymore.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As you sat in that motel room in Daytona Beach, did you put pen to paper, and write a letter to your loved ones?
G. ANTHONY: Yes, I did. I wrote the specific letter to my wife Cindy. And just to tell her how I felt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you include in that letter questions that you had about what happened to Caylee?
G. ANTHONY: Absolutely. Exactly what I said in that letter, I really don`t remember because I never really looked it over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "She was so close to home. Why was she there? Who placed her there? Why is she gone? Why? For months you and I, especially you, always questioned why. I want this to go away for Casey. What happened? Why could she not come to us, especially you? Why not Lee? Who is involved with this stuff for Caylee?"
G. ANTHONY: All I know is I just -- I had to express what I was feeling. And not feeling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You wanted Cindy to know why you would be dead when she found the letter. Is that a fair statement?
G. ANTHONY: Yes. Because I couldn`t tell her face to face. I didn`t want to be in this world anymore.
CHIEF JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, CIRCUIT JUDGE, ORANGE COUNTY: Unfortunately, they are not here. Miss Anthony is at counsel table alone. You are appearing by phone. But I will ask them whenever they choose to arrive.
Miss Anthony, do you want to answer that question now or do you want to wait until Mr. Baez or Mr. Mason or Miss Sims arrive?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: I can answer that now.
PERRY: OK.
CASEY ANTHONY: I agree with Miss Finnell.
PERRY: Thank you, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are back outside the Orlando courthouse bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom trial Casey Anthony on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee.
We are taking your calls.
What a day in the courtroom today. Father George Anthony back on the stand taking a grilling over his suicide attempt when he was distraught over Caylee`s death. Tot mom basically laughing as her father broken down -- steps down to leave the stand.
Out to the lines. Kay in Florida, hi, Kay. What`s your question?
KAY, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy. First, God bless you. You have been covering this since it first happened in 2008. You are honestly the bombshell for the night. I love you.
GRACE: Thank you. What is your question, dear?
KAY: OK. Clearly, Jose Baez looks sleazy with his antics about how the family stayed at the Ritz but he also forgot to add that he had candlelight dinner din with the Anthonys at the Ritz. So will this matter to the jury? You know, how he clearly forgot to add all of that?
GRACE: You know what? Unleash the lawyers, Joe Jackson and Darryl Cohen.
Darryl Cohen, he was grilling George Anthony because he had a dinner at some a fancy hotel and forgot to mention he was there, too.
DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s called a memory of convenience. No, I don`t think it`s going to make any difference. It`s one more antic that he`s using to try and deflect that a little girl was killed and their mother likely did it.
No it`s not -- in my view, it`s not going to make any difference at all.
GRACE: You know, Joe Jackson, I have noticed that he conveniently leaves out relative facts, for instance, he was grilling the state -- Yuri Melich, a detective over, why didn`t you subpoena more of Roy Kronk, the utility meter reader`s phone records? Not telling the jury that the defense has subpoena power, too.
If they wanted those records they could subpoena them. But they didn`t do it.
JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s absolutely true, but remember as a defense attorney he`s laying his theory out and you know he has a difficult job under very difficult circumstances. What I didn`t like, though, today what he did with George Anthony was that he basically let him take control.
GRACE: To Dr. Leslie Seppinni, clinical psychologist. What do you make of tot mom`s smirking, basically outright laughing when her father broken down finally leaves the stand?
DR. LESLIE SEPPINNI, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Look. This is a classic case of anti-social personality disorder. She has no remorse, she has no sense of guilt, and she sees her father as her jailer. He has the key because he`s been the truth teller in the family forever.
Cindy`s been the enabler. He`s been the truth teller. Everybody has their role. She hates her father because he is the key.
GRACE: Joining us right now, a special guest, Donna MaClean joining us tonight in a prime time exclusive. She is convinced her late son is Caylee`s biological father.
Also with us, reporting on that from "Newsweek" and the "Daily Beast," Diane Dimond.
Miss MaClean, Diane, thank you for both for being with us.
Miss MaClean, why are you so convinced your late son is Caylee`s biological father?
DONNA MACLEAN, BELIEVES HER LATE SON IS CAYLEE ANTHONY`S FATHER: Hi, Nancy. I just want to say I`m a bit now shaken up with George`s testimony that he gave today. And I just don`t know what to think anymore. I`m -- this is all been hitting me real fast, real hard. It all came to me on June 11th.
I`ve been watching the show since it started. I started seeing pictures of Caylee that reminded me of my family. And then after that, I decided to look up who the father was. And so when I did it, it said that he died in a car accident in 2007. And even at that, I was just -- just thought that was a bit bizarre and then I got to thinking about my son who died which I`m still having a hard time with and --
GRACE: Your son Michael died in a car accident in 2007?
MACLEAN: Yes.
GRACE: Did you know whether he had dated tot mom Casey Anthony?
MACLEAN: It came to me later, but not at the time he died.
GRACE: Do you know that now?
MACLEAN: I know that now and I don`t know why it just -- it didn`t come to me. After I was thinking of the 2007 incident, that was online about the father that could be to Caylee, it got me thinking where did I get the idea my son had a baby? And then it was going through my mind like it was replaying --
GRACE: Well, was your son in the Orlando area at that time?
MACLEAN: My son -- my son`s other side of the family would take them down to Florida to visit their friends and go to Disney World and -- when they were younger. And about the time that the baby could have been conceived my son was 21, living in Tennessee and working for a moving company that took him all over the United States.
GRACE: To Diane Dimond, what other facts have you managed to develop about Michael Duggan being the father?
DIANE DIMOND, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, NEWSWEEK, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, he had this attachment to Orlando as Donna is telling you. Since he was a little child. And so while we can`t put him there, she does not remember during this telephone conversation where he mentioned a Casey. A George. A Cindy. A father who was a cop.
She never bothered to ask where -- what town, what city, what state are we talking about. And -- because she was busy that day. And by the time they got around to trying to have another telephone conversation, he had died in this car accident.
But Nancy, look at these pictures.
GRACE: So he actually named -- yes. He actually named those names in a phone conversation, Diane?
DIMOND: Yes, he did. George Anthony, Cindy Anthony, the father had been a police officer. Her name was Casey. They were having a girl. It all came about they were talking about another brother who was about to have a boy. And Donna said, gosh, I wish I`d have a girl and he piped up and said, well, mom, guess what.
Now look at those photographs. Look at Donna`s picture when she was a little girl and match it with Caylee. And look at his picture and match it with Caylee. He also looks exactly like every boy Casey Anthony ever dated.
GRACE: As the courtroom is swirling, as the defense wraps up its case, has the biological father of little Caylee been located?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
G. ANTHONY: Talked about walking up to that car and the smell that emanated that from that car. I could smell it three feet away. When I opened up that car door, yes, it smelled like decomposition, human decomposition. Was it decomposition to me? Yes. Was it not my granddaughter or my daughter that I found in the trunk of the car? No, they weren`t. I didn`t say that it was the trash. Not the garbage that was in it. There`s also a difference between trash and garbage.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: This is not a murder case. This is a tragic accident that happened to some very disturbed people. People with significant issues.
G. ANTHONY: A deep, a deep hurt inside. Seeing what my wife and my son went through.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: I was very --
CINDY ANTHONY: Very upset, felt betrayed.
G. ANTHONY: To go and be with Caylee.
L. ANTHONY: This family is united. That they didn`t want to include me.
CINDY ANTHONY: I never had control of Casey.
L. ANTHONY: I though that --
G. ANTHONY: I believe I failed her.
BAEZ: This is how this family lives.
L. ANTHONY: I was -- I was very hurt.
BAEZ: You know what that photograph is of, Mrs. Anthony?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes. Caylee is missing. Caylee`s missing.
L. ANTHONY: CMA, I miss you.
BAEZ: A family that`s incredibly dysfunctional.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live at the courthouse taking your calls but now joining us, the Anthony family attorney, Mark Lippman. He has called in specifically to address claims that Michael Duggan may be the biological father.
Hi, Mark Lippman, how are you?
MARK LIPPMAN, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE AND CINDY ANTHONY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Very good, Miss Grace. Thanks for having me on.
GRACE: Thank you for joining us. And a lot of us were saying special prayers for George today. Watching him on the stand to me was just -- it was -- it hurt. It made my chest hurt watching what he was having to go through.
OK. So Mark, what do you think about this theory about the biological father?
LIPPMAN: If it`s the same lady who`s been contacting my office either directly or through other reporters, same response I gave her directly. If she truly is the grandmother and her son who apparently is also passed is the father of Caylee, I don`t understand why she can`t wait.
There was DNA done in this test. Certainly, don`t bother my clients about it. She can go to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, the FBI. I believe they all have the results or she can go directly to Mr. Baez who should have the results of the DNA, also. And certainly --
GRACE: Wait. Mark, are you saying that Michael Duggan`s DNA has been tested as bio dad?
LIPPMAN: No, no, no. I have no idea who Michael Duggan is.
GRACE: Right. I didn`t think so. Then what are you saying about DNA?
LIPPMAN: Well, that she and -- she`s indicated that she`s possibly the grandmother.
GRACE: Right.
LIPPMAN: So the best and easiest way to prove that is get a DNA sample from some -- hopefully she still has a hair sample from her deceased son. Have it tested and then compare it to Caylee`s DNA and see if there`s a match.
GRACE: To Donna MaClean, would you be willing to do that, Miss MaClean?
MACLEAN: Actually, to submit something of my son, is that what he`s saying?
GRACE: Yes.
MACLEAN: OK. Well, we had this conversation and I told him, no. I don`t have DNA but there is --
GRACE: Well--
MACLEAN: There is grandparent testing that can be done.
GRACE: Well, hold on, hold on, hold on, just a moment.
To CW Jensen, retired Portland Police captain. CW there`s mitochondrial DNA through the mother and grandmother. Well, I don`t know if it will work in this case because it`s coming through a son but certainly there would be a way to match at least a grandparent`s match to Caylee`s DNA.
CW JENSEN, RETIRED PORTLAND POLICE CAPTAIN: State police crime labs, the FBI crime lab, are very, very good at DNA testing. So if she could come forward and give some physical evidence, they could certainly at least make a try at trying to figure out and hopefully there would be something. Many of us keep locks of hair and things like that from our deceased children and friends. So that would be the better way to go. But hey, science is really hot. So she needs to cooperate as much as possible and I agree with the --
GRACE: Well, CW, while we`re talking on that vein, it`s the closing of the defense case. It`s down to the wire. Is tot mom going to testify?
JENSEN: I`ve been involved in a lot of homicide cases and -- and rarely do suspects, defendants testify. As you know, Nancy. I doubt she will testify. I believe that she is up there, the prosecution will tear her apart for her lies.
GRACE: That`s a nice way to put it, CW.
To Natisha Lance, we know everybody that`s on the defense witness list. They haven`t brought on the so-called other woman, River Cruz, street name, real name Crystal Holloway. There`s a possibility that some more Equifax searchers could come on.
But if they`re going to end tomorrow, as they told the judge that they would, does that rule out tot mom testifying?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: I don`t know if it rules it out or not, Nancy. There`s still that question that the judge will ask her, have you decided to testify? Are you not testifying? And that has to be her decision and her decision along.
I will tell you that Crystal Holloway was in the hallway today. She didn`t get up on the stand today but we should be expecting her to testify tomorrow.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Amy in Texas. Hi, Amy. What`s your question?
AMY, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call.
GRACE: Thank you.
AMY: I first want to say that watching George today on the stand absolutely broke my heart. I was sobbing and crying. I mean, my heart goes out to him.
But Nancy, my question is, could Casey`s lack of emotion when her father testifies, could that be because he did molest her? And could that be the reason that she has no empathy when he`s on the stand?
GRACE: To Aaron Brehove, what do you make of it? Although she showed the same lack of empathy when looking at photos of Caylee`s remains, when seeing her mother break down on the stand. What? Is there mother molest her, too?
I mean she`s looked like this throughout the whole trial.
AARON BREHOVE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT, SENIOR INSTRUCTION, BODY LANGUAGE INSTITUTE: Exactly. You see Casey her acting the same way, the stone faced, and then laughing at inappropriate times. I don`t think this would indicate any one thing that he`s done to her as far as that would go but this is how she acts. This is a very odd, odd and peculiar behavior and you see him and it really does break your heart. He`s been very straightforward the entire time and he is very believable and she hasn`t showed any signs of deception at all.
GRACE: To Dr. Leslie Seppinni. Weigh in, Leslie. Is this a sign that her father molested her or is it a sign she just --
SEPPINNI: Not at all.
GRACE: -- cold -- stone cold evil?
SEPPINNI: Not at all. And actually, I would argue and beg to differ on the issue of molestation because usually patients or people who have been molested have signs of post traumatic stress. They have a number of other signs. They don`t have indifference. They`re not sitting around celebrating joyfully when their child dies. If anything they fight frantically to keep their child away from somebody who`s molested them.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Vivian in Tennessee.
Hi, Vivian. What`s your question?
VIVIAN, CALLER FROM TENNESSEE: Hi. I have a theory.
GRACE: OK.
VIVIAN: And I hope you think what I think. Casey hates her mother so much that she is watching her mother suffer by watching who she`s getting back at, her father, her brother. I believe with my whole heart that because she hates her mother so much, this is what she`s doing.
Didn`t she fight and kick her daughter out with the child? And then she stopped her from having a good time.
GRACE: What about it, Jean Casarez?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": I think we`re going to hear some of that theory in closing arguments.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We are outside the Orlando courthouse bringing you the latest. So the judge, Judge Belvin Perry, throws the defense a bone, lets them bring in a grief counselor when it is not supported by the law. The counselor never even saw tot mom.
And listen, the defense could have let her interview tot mom, could they not, Darryl Cohen? But they didn`t want to, did they?
COHEN: Well, if they let her interviewed tot mom, then what would have happened? She would have found out there`s no grief. So this way the defense thinks --
GRACE: I get it.
COHEN: -- they have the best of both worlds. Not going to happen.
GRACE: And Belvin Perry let them do it. I think he did is because he was just throwing the defense a bone. But what about Jesse Grund, the former fiance who will say tot mom told him Lee Anthony molested her? Is Judge Belvin Perry going to let that hearsay in?
COHEN: Nancy, I can`t comment on that.
GRACE: What about it?
GRACE: What about it, Joe Jackson? Quickly.
JACKSON: I absolutely think so. It will come in, it will raise some doubt, and as a result of that it`ll assist the defense case.
GRACE: That`s the only way tot mom is going to get away from taking the stand, is if Belvin Perry lets Grund testify to the defense theory. It will be ranked hearsay.
Let`s stop and remember Army 1st Lieutenant Dimitri Del Castillo, 24, Tampa, Florida, killed Afghanistan. Awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Commendation, Army Service. A West Point grad wanted to enlist and attend West Point like his uncle.
Lost his life just months before his dream wedding. Live life to the fullest, always putting fellow soldiers first. Loved adventures, riding bikes, basketball, dreamed of joining special forces or CIA.
Leaves behind parents Carlos and Kathryn, widow Katie, also serving the Army. The couple met at West Point.
Dimitri Del Castillo, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us.
And happy birthday, 14th birthday, to friend of the show Ruth. Loves singing in the school choir, dancing, time with her friends. Loves her mommy and daddy. She is gorgeous.
Happy birthday, beautiful Ruth.
And congratulations to CNN journalist and author now Kitty Pilgrim. Her debut novel "The Explorer`s Code" hits the book shelves. It`s a thriller that takes readers on an international journey worth killing over. "The Explorer`s Code" in the bookstores and online today.
Way to go, Kitty.
Everyone, we`ll see you tomorrow night, where we will be live outside the Orlando courthouse, in our own way, seeking justice for Caylee.
I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
