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Dr. Drew
Casey Anthony`s Fate in Hands of Jury
Aired July 04, 2011 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VINNIE POLITAN, HOST OF HLN`S "SPECIAL REPORT" (voice-over): Twelve chairs empty, 12 placards, numbers instead of names, five men, seven women. People like you and me now saddled with mountains of evidence and a daunting task. A single question. Did Casey Anthony murder her child? The answer could end her life. Who are these people? What`s going through their minds? And most importantly, will their answer be one word or two?
JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, ORANGE COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: Members of the jury, you may retire now to begin your deliberations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POLITAN (on-camera): That was Judge Belvin Perry handing the case and Casey Anthony`s fate to the jury. Just hours ago, he sent jurors home for the night. They deliberated for almost six hours today. Welcome back. I`m Vinnie Politan sitting in for Dr. Drew live in Orlando. Count on HLN to be all over the trial up to and after the very end.
So, how about this jury? Who are they? Although, we don`t know their names, we do have a little background information on the seven women and five men deciding if Casey Anthony was responsible for the murder of her two-year-old daughter, Caylee.
Jane Velez-Mitchell, host of HLN`s "Issues" is back with us and from L.A., clinical psychologist, Michelle Golland, and Florida prosecutor, Stacey Honowitz. All right. Stacey, we have some information on one of the male jurors, juror number two, who said he thinks Casey did it, but that but he can set that view aside. Can he set that view aside? I know legally that gets him on the jury, but do you think he can actually do it?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, here`s what I find fascinating. I`ve been trying cases for over 20 years, and I don`t think you can ever read a jury. So many times I`ve been doing a closing argument, watching all these jurors, watching them nod their heads, nod their heads, and then, they come back, and it`s a not guilty verdict. People that I -- it`s rare, but it does happen.
So, I think that if they gave these answers during jury selection, we have to go on the belief that they can set aside their bias and their prejudice, but there is one thing we do ask them to bring in and that`s their common sense. So, after these closing arguments, we can hope that they use their common sense. They put everything together. They listen to the facts. They apply the law, and they make the right decision.
POLITAN: So, you`re not going to give us anything tonight, Stacey. That`s basically what your telling me, right?
HONOWITZ: No, what I`m telling you, I don`t think -- I know you had these body language experts come on and say, well, someone`s writing and someone`s not writing. I`m here to tell you from personal experience, probably, every trial lawyer will tell you the same thing. You can never read a jury.
POLITAN: You never, never really know, but how about juror number four? Michelle Golland, this is a black female in her 50s, single, no children, but here`s the catch. In jury selection, she says, I don`t like to judge people. Don`t like to judge people? That`s your only job as a juror. The prosecution tried to get her bounced, but Judge Perry blocked that. So, do you think, Michelle Golland, someone who says I don`t like to judge people, when in that deliberation room will be able to judge people and do the job that she`s got to do
MICHELLE GOLLAND, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. I mean, I think the whole point of being on a jury is to make these judgments, to have the common sense, to look at the evidence, and to render that verdict from their own conscious, being conscious about it. And I think, you know, we cannot read these people. They have been in that courtroom not hearing all of us and our analysis and all of our the talking heads about everything. And it`s going to be very interesting to see what actually happens.
POLITAN: Well, they`ve been watching the same evidence that we`ve been watching. Juror number 11, Jane, is an interesting juror, and I`ll tell you why. First of all, every woman who is down here wants to meet juror number 11. He`s, I guess, apparently, very handsome white male.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST OF HLN`S "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL": Not me.
POLITAN: We know that. White male in his 30s, Jane. He`s single. Ladies, he`s single. No children. High school teacher working on a masters degree in special education. My goodness. All right. He`s the dream date, but is he a dream juror for prosecutors? I say no, because he just sounds like he`s someone who is very open minded and sort of liberal. And we don`t like liberal jurors as prosecutors.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Everything cuts both ways. You can say, as a high school teacher, he knows how bad high school kids can be, and they can be pretty bad. I think we both remember high school. So, if not like --
POLITAN: Jaded.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You could snowball him. He could be jaded. By the same token, he might love high schoolers because he`s a high school teacher. And at the same thing with this juror number four who doesn`t like to judge, frankly, I think, sometimes, that`s a (INAUDIBLE) indicator. Every time I`ve met somebody who says I don`t like to judge, they turn out to be the most judgmental people on earth. The reason they say it is because their so judgmental as a cover. Now, I think the one who could really be a problem for the prosecution, actually, is the first juror you mentioned.
POLITAN: Number two.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Because he`s an I.T. guy. He`s a techie. And remember, there was whole controversy over the chloroform where the prosecution caved in and said 84 chloroform searches, and then, the defense very, very, I think, effectively argued that, hey, it may have been just the wrong program, and it may have just been one chloroform search that it did show could have been because he was dating a guy who put up a joke about chloroform. So, I think he might actually be a problem for the prosecution.
POLITAN: That`s interesting. Michelle Golland, the other thing about juror number 11, the hunk. Let`s just call him the hunk. He`s a single white male in his 30s.
GOLLAND: It`s like HLN dating.com or something.
(LAUGHTER)
POLITAN: Sort of, but he`s a single male in his 30s. You`ve got Casey Anthony who is this young, single female. And I saw this during jury selection. They wanted all these young single guys on the jury. Do they feel that somehow, somewhere, they`re going to be more sympathetic to Casey Anthony because she`s a single, attractive female?
GOLLAND: Well, I mean, I guess what that really says is that it`s really trying to appeal to the base, you know, experience of men believing that men are only going to respond from one place, and that they`re going to be more sympathetic because someone`s attractive. But I want to actually go back to the other juror.
POLITAN: What do they say afterwards? I couldn`t convict her. She was too hot. She was too hot.
GOLLAND: Someone this hot wouldn`t do that. It`s crazy. Right. But, you know, the other juror, Vinnie, his wife is also a nurse. The one you were talking about.
POLITAN: Yes.
GOLLAND: And that, I think, is very important, because that`s also one of the things that has always been curious to me is the fact. Again, this goes towards the possibility of sexual abuse of Casey is that she was never taken to a gynecologist. And even though, you know, they were worried about her, she was promiscuous, she was wild, but still, this family doesn`t take the measures that you would think, and he`s a father. He has young kids. And his wife is a nurse.
POLITAN: You know what`s interesting, Michelle, juror number one is a retired nurse. How about that?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
GOLLAND: I think that is going to be a big question. I know as a mom, as someone who works with, you know, victims of sexual abuse and incest, one of those things is that the family tries to keep the secret. And even if it`s unconsciously the mother doesn`t know about it or consciously knows, there are these efforts of keeping, Jane, like you said, like this persona which is sort of the -- like we don`t judge, you know, juror.
But in this case, it`s this idea that if it is happening, how do we avoid any sort of detection around it? And the secrets --
POLITAN: Stacey Honowitz, would you go -- yes.
GOLLAND: Sorry.
POLITAN: Finish up, Michelle. I thought you were done. No, no, Michelle. The hunk, would you keep him on your jury or would you bounce him off? Would you keep him on and bat your eyebrows a little bit or your lashes at him or would you bounce him off because the defendant is a single attractive female?
HONOWITZ: Would I as a prosecutor?
POLITAN: As a prosecutor, would you bounce him off?
HONOWITZ: Oh, I would keep him on. Here`s the real test in picking a jury. You want jurors who are going to like you. So, if that juror likes me or thinks I`m cute and I`m batting my eyelashes at him, there`s a tendency for him to want to believe and vote my way, and that`s the reality of the situation.
A very famous judge told me years ago when I was trying a case, my first felony case, he said to me, Ms. Honowitz, get them to love you, because if they love you as the lawyer, they`re going to want to vote your way, and that really is the reality. You can`t read these people from the hell of beans (ph). When they come in and they tell you things, we don`t know if they just want to sit on a jury panel or we don`t know if they just want to get off --
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This guy could be great for the prosecution because he has probably dated a lot being the good looking guy that he is. And he probably knows how girls, women act when they want to see their boyfriend. And what did Casey Anthony do? Her daughter by her own admission is dead, and everybody`s on the phone while she`s in jail trying to talk sense into her and all she wants is her boyfriend`s phone number.
So, this guy may actually have a better read on what she`s really about than somebody who hasn`t dated a lot.
POLITAN: All right, ladies. We`re all over juror number 11, aren`t we, tonight.
Up next, a look at the charges the jury is deliberating on in the murder trial of Casey Anthony. I`m Vinnie Politan sitting in for Dr. Drew live in Orlando. Stay with us with continuing breaking news coverage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From what I`m seeing, I don`t see her being able to get out of this one. You know, knowing your kid was gone for over 30 days and not reporting it is kind of the clincher for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PERRY: In this case, Casey Marie Anthony is accused of murder in the first-degree, aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter of a child, and four counts of providing false information to a law enforcement officer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POLITAN: Welcome back. I`m Vinnie Politan sitting in for Dr. Drew. We are live in Orlando. Rejoining me, Jane Velez-Mitchell, host of HLN`s "Issues," and from Los Angeles, clinical psychologist, Michelle Golland, and Florida prosecutor, Stacey Honowitz, who`s never in Florida.
All right. Let`s break down exactly what the jury is deliberating here. Let`s talk first about first-degree murder. This is what this case is really about. First-degree murder conviction, that`s where the death penalty comes into play, and that`s been a big part of this case, obviously. First degree premeditated. In order to find Casey Anthony guilty, the jury must find one, Caylee is dead. obviously, they`ve been proven that and has been conceded.
Two, Casey`s criminal act caused Caylee`s death. That`s the cause. That`s a key, key part of that element. And Caylee`s killing was premeditated. Two huge hurdles here for the prosecution in this case. I`ll start with the prosecutor, Stacey Honowitz. How does this jury go into deliberations and say, all right, yes, we`re all convinced beyond no reasonable doubt that Casey Anthony caused this death, that it wasn`t an accident?
HONOWITZ: Well, certainly, I think the prosecutor did a brilliant job in trying to explain it. You had three pieces of duct tape over that child. Not one piece but covering the entire nasal area, the jaw, the mouth so the child would suffocate and not breath. And I think they made the point well to the jury. I mean, there`s really not that much to argue with it.
There is really the murder weapon. Here`s the cause of death. And so, when you go back in and you put -- you use your common sense, you put all the evidence together, you think about the searches that were made, you say to yourself, she made a conscious decision. She had time to think about it. She planned it. She premeditated, and it was all done by the actions of what you found on that skull.
POLITAN: Jane Velez-Mitchell, what in your eyes is the strongest evidence of premeditation. And you know, when you think of premeditation, we`re plotting, we`re planning this crime. Where do you see premeditation in this case?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the two things, the chloroform and the duct tape, and they did knock some holes into the chloroform. I think the defense was most effective in trying to destroy this whole idea that she chloroformed the child in the sense that they did point out that the state has not shown when she mixed up this chloroform, where she did this, where she kept it, where she bought some of the ingredients like acetone which I know comes in fingernail polish, but nevertheless, they didn`t connect the dots on that.
But the duct tape, the duct tape, they did a brilliant job, and they pointed out something very interesting that, hey, you`re blaming two people for the duct tape. Who is it? You`re saying George had access to the duct tape. You`re trying to point that, in fact, that George had it on the gas cans and on where`s Caylee --
POLITAN: On posters at the command center.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But at the same, time you`re saying Roy Kronk took that body and duct taped the mouth so that the jawbone didn`t fall out. And so, who is it? Either you`re going to blame George or you`re going to blame Roy? And I thought when I heard that, I was like, that makes a lot of sense.
POLITAN: It really does.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Two people can`t have the same duct tape.
POLITAN: Now, there`s a problem with premeditation. They can also prove first degree murder through a felony murder theory. And it`s also makes this case a death penalty case. And we`d move on to that phase. Felony murder. First-degree murder. In order to find Casey Anthony guilty, the jury must find that Caylee is dead. Caylee`s death was the result of aggravated child abuse by Casey, and Casey was the one who killed Caylee.
Michelle Golland, when it comes to child abuse, and in this case, Jose Baez made it very clear. He said there`s no evidence of it. I mean, where`s the evidence of the child abuse? There`s no track record. There`s no complaints. Look at the video. She`s a loving mother. Is it possible that she could have abused this child either the time that she died or even in previous times and no one would have known about it?
GOLLAND: Of course. Of course, that could have happened. And I think what, you know, what the defense has done masterfully is to really throw in like Jane was saying, there`s so many things that don`t make sense, but again, he`s throwing them out there to create the reasonable doubt. And even with Cindy lying and George lying and all of these things, really do help the idea of reasonable doubt. But, of course, people abuse their children in secrecy all the time.
POLITAN: Stacey Honowitz, what do you think really happened here?
HONOWITZ: That`s not the abuse they`re talking --
POLITAN: What do you think really happen here?
HONOWITZ: I think that she premeditated. I think that she wanted to live her life exactly as the prosecutors say.
POLITAN: But what did she do?
HONOWITZ: I think the child was cramping her style. I think it was a spite job to Cindy because Cindy was raising that child and loved that child. There could have been a bit of jealousy there. And I think it was premeditated. You don`t put three pieces of duct tape over a two-year-old child and expect them to live.
The child abuse that they`re talking about or the aggravated child abuse is not broken bones or a punch to the skull or a broken femur, it`s putting the chloroform over the child. That`s child abuse. It`s an intentional act that could cause death or serious bodily harm. And in the course of that child, if the child dies, it`s then elevated to felony murder. So, there are two alternatives, and the jury does not have to pick one, and it does not have to be unanimous. So, I think that`s what happen, and I think it was premeditated.
POLITAN: Stacey, Stacey, I think you`re convincing me here. I think you`re convincing me here, but I don`t know if it`s your argument or it`s your eyelashes that you keep batting.
(LAUGHTER)
HONOWITZ: I`m looking for that juror. Where is he? I`m batting my eyelashes for that juror to come out (ph).
POLITAN: Jane, what do you think really happened here? Because I understand the why of it now, but what happened? What did she do?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the prosecution hasn`t fully explained that. And then again, they don`t have to. This idea that we get from television that, oh, if there was a murder, where`s the videotape of the murder? It`s not like that. Most cases are circumstantial cases. Most cases do not have direct evidence so you have to piece it together with deductive reasoning.
POLITAN: JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, thank you so much. Michelle Golland and Stacey Honowitz, great job.
The verdict is in. Dr. Drew`s jury tells us if they`d convict Casey or not. That`s next. I`m Vinnie Politan sitting in for Dr. Drew. Our verdict countdown clock has stopped for the night at five hours, 49 minutes, and 24 seconds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think they`re probably going to come back guilty to be honest with you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think a lot of us are hoping for guilty. And I think that the jury will come back with a guilty verdict.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to show you just how close the Anthony`s house which is right behind me is to the actual site where they found Caylee`s remains. It is so close, I can`t believe it. We`re going to show you right now.
This is the house right here, the Anthony home. They have some flags up that say peace and hope. There`s a big fence blocking the pool. There are tons of cars on their street. So, now, we`re driving down their road, suburban drive. Absolutely amazing how many people are actually here just parked looking at the site. Maybe about 15 houses down, not even a block between the Anthony home and where Caylee was buried.
Literally, not even a full city block, and we are coming up right after this fence is the edge of where someone walked into the woods and dumped this little girl. You can see people going in looking at the site. Paying their respects as the jury is still deliberating right now. Less than two minutes, we`ve been driving and that is how close it is to Casey`s house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POLITAN: That`s our producer Sarah taking us back to the scene and bringing it back to what this case is all about. You`re watching the DR. DREW show. I`m Vinnie Politan sitting in for Dr. Drew. We`re live in Orlando. Drew will be back tomorrow night. And you just saw how far Caylee`s remains were from the Anthony home. So close. People wind up day after day, hour after hour, desperate to get into the Casey Anthony courtroom.
Even today, there were hundreds of people outside just to get a glimpse of anyone connected to this case, and the rain was pouring down. Well, it`s Independence Day. You might be able to hear the fireworks behind me. This was really about, open and public trial, folks. Look who`s back with us, Adrian Wheatly. He`s a Dr Drew "juror" who got into the courtroom for the tenth time today. Adrian, great to see you.
ADRIAN WHEATLEY, DR. DREW "JUROR": Nice to be back here.
POLITAN: Today was a huge day, the end of closing arguments. Did anything happen today that changed the way you see this case or you think this case may turn out?
WHEATLEY: Absolutely. I mean, we were in line today. I was with my guy, the neck brace guy who everybody seems to know. We changed our opinions because of the way that Linda Burdick did the final statements today.
POLITAN: It made that much of an impact?
WHEATLEY: Oh, boy, yes. She actually put it into perspective. It was (ph) second-degree, maybe a life imprisonment, but after today, it`s definitely felony murder. Definitely felony murder.
POLITAN: You believe that Little Caylee was abused?
WHEATLEY: Definitely. Yes. The duct tape on the mouth and chloroform to put her in the trunk. She overdosed on chloroform. For me, after what she said today, it`s definitely life in prison or death.
POLITAN: Ten times inside that courtroom. What`s the fascination here?
WHEATLEY: Well, I was going to come once the first day, and then, I thought I`ll go again. Then, you just get addicted to it, you know? It`s just fascinating.
POLITAN: Adrian, great to see you. Thank you so much.
WHEATLEY: Thank you.
POLITAN: Fireworks behind us. Big thanks to Dr. Drew for letting me sit in during the past week. Really appreciate it. Drew will be back tomorrow. Jurors will continue their deliberations at 8:30 Tuesday morning Eastern Time. As we near the end of the hour, let`s not forget who this trial is really all about. That`s Little Caylee Marie Anthony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SINGING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VINNIE POLITAN, HOST (voice-over): Six weeks of testimony, 12 jurors, one mission. They`ve heard fiery arguments from the defense.
JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Look what you`ve done! And George throwing Casey under the bus.
POLITAN: Blistering accusations from the prosecution.
JEFF ASHTON, PROSECUTOR: She decided instead to just throw her in a swamp.
POLITAN: And red hot-tension up to the last moment.
BAEZ: -- whether it`s this laughing guy right here or whether it`s myself.
ASHTON: Objection.
JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, ORANGE COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: Sustained.
POLITAN: All capped off by one horrifying question.
LINDA DRANE BURDICK, PROSECUTOR: -- why Caylee Marie Anthony was left on the side of the road dead.
POLITAN: All that and more straight ahead on DR. DREW.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
POLITAN: Tonight, breaking news. Casey Anthony`s fate now in the hands of the jury.
I`m Vinnie Politan, sitting in for Dr. Drew, live in Orlando. And it`s a countdown to the verdict.
You see the jury clock stopped on the screen. Jurors were sent home for the night after almost six hours of deliberations.
And in case you missed a second of what happened today, watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Linda Drane Burdick got in there, and she just teed it up and hit it out of the park.
BURDICK: Casey Anthony would have you believe that this is all her mother`s fault anyway. Let`s twist the knife in my mom a little more.
ASHTON: People don`t make accidents look like murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was really an imbalance from the start.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, "ISSUES": Hold on a second. Wait. We see over here people are running.
We`re going to chase them down. Hold on. We`re chasing them now.
Anything at all, Jose?
PERRY: Members of the jury, you may retire now to begin your deliberations.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
POLITAN: The fireworks in the Casey Anthony courtroom had nothing to do with the Fourth of July, and it ended with a bang when prosecutor Linda Drane Burdick delivered this final statement. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURDICK: Whose life was better? That`s the only question you need to answer in considering why Caylee Marie Anthony was left on the side of the road dead. There`s your answer.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
POLITAN: But the defense had laid out their case, too, and they came out swinging with something Jose Baez called the state`s "fantasy of forensics." Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: Situations like fantasy searches, fantasy forensics, phantom stickers, phantom stains, all of this nonsense. It`s a phantom stain. It`s there. You just can`t see it.
And this is the stuff you must look at. Remember when I told you this investigation reached a level of desperation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POLITAN: I`m with Ryan Smith, the host of "In Session" on truTV; Jane Velez-Mitchell, host of HLN`s "ISSUES"; and Jennifer Barringer, former member of the Casey Anthony defense team and current consultant to them.
All right. Wow. All right. We`re in the verdict watch. The jury started their deliberations. The last thing they heard were closing arguments.
Ryan, that battle inside that courtroom, who do you think got the better of it in closing arguments?
RYAN SMITH, HOST, "IN SESSION," TRUTV: The last thing they got was Linda Drane Burdick. And I think the prosecution got the better of them, and here`s why.
She broke it down on a commonsense basis. Folks, I want you to use your common sense when you think about what happened here. Play it all out in your mind. And what does the solution lead to?
And wrapping it up with, "Whose life would be better off with Caylee?" I thought was masterful, because at that point, what you`re trying to say to the jury is, look at Casey Anthony there. She`s the last person with Caylee. All the facts line up so that you see that Casey could have done this. And who would be better off?
And you see that "Bella Vita" tattoo, "The Beautiful Life." It`s the same way they ended their case. Very strong. That`s the last image that jury has walking into deliberations.
POLITAN: And I thought it was so powerful. I always thought it was the weakest part of the case, trying to establish the motive, the why of it here.
They turned it upside-down and they made it the strength of their closing argument, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Up until this point.
POLITAN: She disagrees.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, no. Not necessarily. I think up until this point, I really felt that there was enough there to prove reasonable doubt vis-a-vis premeditated first-degree murder. I don`t think anybody buys the pool drowning story.
But did the prosecution prove its case of premeditated murder beyond a reasonable doubt? Until I heard Linda Drane Burdick today, I didn`t think they had it. But she was not just the icing on the cake, she was the cherry on the icing.
I mean, she really brought it down. And what she did was I think energize the prosecution with righteous indignation.
She came out and said, how dare you, essentially, attack law enforcement? How dare you call all the detectives and the hard-working people who worked on this case liars?
She said they weren`t trying to make Casey Anthony look bad. They weren`t trying to make her look like -- can I say it? A slut. She said it. Jose Baez used that term, so I`m using terms from the courtroom.
She said they were trying to find the little girl that the defendant told us was alive. They were working around the clock on their days off trying to find a little girl who was alive. They weren`t trying to make us hate her. I thought that was actually one of the best points she made.
POLITAN: Powerful stuff.
All right, Jennifer, how about it? You`re consulting this defense team. Did they need a little more consultation, or do you think they did OK during closing arguments?
JEN BARRINGER, CONSULTANT TO CASEY ANTHONY TEAM: You know, during closing arguments I thought Jose was masterful, actually. If you had asked me yesterday, I would have said we have it, because I thought Mr. Ashton left a big, big hole talking about the motive. Because as you said, I thought that was their Achilles heel.
However, it`s hard for me to say that Linda Drane Burdick didn`t frame the issues in such an emotional way and such a commonsense way, which is, of course, a lot of -- you`ve been a DA, so common sense is kind of the same thing that DAs do. They do it all the time.
It`s kind of code for, I have a few holes in my case, I want you to take a look at the entirety of the situation, and make your opinion upon that. I have to say something for the defense.
POLITAN: Yes. But the other part of it is -- and I thought Jeff Ashton did this very well -- talking about how ridiculous the pool drowning theory is. Not that it couldn`t have been a drowning in the pool, but George Anthony`s involvement.
And this line resonates with me -- you don`t take an accidental drowning and then cover it up by making it look like first-degree murder, Ryan. Why is he covering it up? There`s no commonsense reason to cover up an accidental drowning.
SMITH: It`s a good point. You know what he did to build on that? Casey Anthony was doing this because it was the difference between the life she wanted and the life she had.
And you talk about the cover-up fact, why would somebody do it that way? That`s when you then move it into the zone of, well, let`s look at it reasonably.
I know what you say, Jennifer, about common sense, but that`s the common sense part of it.
And you know what I thought was really interesting today? Casey Anthony didn`t testify in this trial. But what did we get to hear today? Her words, incriminating herself about the accident theory and things like that.
POLITAN: And taking this jury back to the time when this whole disappearance took place. So you saw Casey Anthony from three years ago, not Casey Anthony now, who`s had time to reflect.
I want to do this -- things got fiery in the courtroom between Jose Baez and Jeff Ashton. And we`ve been seeing Jeff Ashton kind of laughing and smiling and trying to cover it up. Jose Baez has noticed it as well.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: We`re not talking about fantasy forensics anymore. We`re talking about cold, hard evidence, evidence that points to one person and one person only.
And he could get up here and lie all he wants, and dance around the truth, but the truth is the truth. And depending on who`s asking the questions, whether it`s this laughing guy right here or whether it`s myself --
ASHTON: Objection.
PERRY: Sustained.
Approach the bench.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POLITAN: I`ve never scene anything like it before. And Judge Belvin Perry has his rules of decorum and everything. Jeff Ashton, clearly breaking those rules with the laughing at Jose Baez closing argument -- Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, he is chuckling. He is laughing. He`s not smirking, because he came back and said, yes, I had a little smile. No, he was laughing.
POLITAN: He was.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let`s face it, Jose Baez did not have an easy job here. I mean, a lot of people came into this saying it was an open and shut case. I think he did the best he could.
A lot of people ridiculed his charts. I didn`t. I thought they really sort of deconstructed the case in a way that was favorable for the defense.
But Linda Drane Burdick, who did have overnight to prepare, which I think helped her --
POLITAN: Huge advantage.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Huge advantage. She had all night to think of, oh, my gosh, what can I do to knock this out of the park? I don`t think it would have happened if she would have had to immediately go right after the defense.
SMITH: And the jury comes in fresh. Remember, they come in this morning, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed --
POLITAN: Yes, fresh airs.
SMITH: -- ready to go. But that thing that happened in court, Vinnie, I think it`s a little (INAUDIBLE) for the prosecution. It`s kind of like when you`re winning the game and you spike the football to get the other team mad. And you saw Jose Baez react.
A lot of people would have reacted that way. You want your chance to give your closing argument without having somebody laughing at you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Don`t you would think they were goading him so he would do exactly what he did --
SMITH: I do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: -- so that they would delay it, and then they would delay it enough so they`d have to have their final, final word the next day?
POLITAN: Well, it worked. It worked.
Up next, my interview with the man who led the search for Caylee`s remains.
And later, Casey`s fate rests in the hands of 12 jurors, but what are they thinking? We`ll explore the possibilities.
I`m Vinnie Politan, sitting in for Dr. Drew.
Stay with us for more breaking news coverage of the Casey Anthony murder trial.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Donna Marini (ph), I can`t believe that you told me you were 43 years old, it was right before -- oh, hold on a second. Wait.
We see over here people are running because -- somebody. There`s some kind of drama.
Donna, hang on. I`m going to be back to you.
Let`s see what we can find out here.
We`re going to chase them down. Hold on. We`re chasing them right now.
This is live television in progress. You can see the media.
Let`s see if Jose Baez wants to say anything.
Hey, Jose, quick comment? Anything at all, Jose?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POLITAN: I`m Vinnie Politan, live in Orlando, sitting in for Dr. Drew.
On day one of jury deliberations, keep your eye on the countdown clock on your screen. It will start ticking again 8:30 tomorrow morning.
Talk about literally chasing down a story, that was my pal Jane Velez- Mitchell earlier today.
Also joining us tonight is attorney Lisa Bloom in Los Angeles. Lisa is the author of "Think." And Tim Miller, who helped lead the search to find little Caylee`s remains.
Lots of shocking courtroom moments over the past six weeks. But yesterday`s colorful description of Casey from Jose Baez really had jaws dropping. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: You see, the strategy behind that is, is if you hate her, if you think she`s a lying, no-good slut, then you`ll start to look at this evidence in a different light.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POLITAN: Lisa Bloom, I hate to go to you after the words "no good lying slut," but --
LISA BLOOM, ATTORNEY: I can take it.
POLITAN: -- you were next in line. OK.
How about Jose Baez there trying, I guess, to say that this is why they went after her, because she lies and she sleeps around, and that was the motive, and that`s why they didn`t investigate a drowning.
I mean, is that silly or is that going to resonate in that jury deliberation room?
BLOOM: I think that was actually very effective by Jose Baez. When you have a client who is so unlikable, you have to address it squarely. And that`s what he`s doing.
He`s effectively saying to the jury, you know what, you guys? You don`t like her. I don`t like her either. She lies. She`s promiscuous. You know, she engages in a lot of behaviors that we don`t like, but it doesn`t make her a murderer.
And I frankly think he`s got to say that. He`s got to get them thinking, OK, I don`t like her, but I`m going to put that aside and I`m going to focus on the evidence in this case, if it`s there beyond a reasonable doubt or not. So he did what he had to do.
POLITAN: Tim Miller, you were in the house. You led the search for little Caylee. Is Casey Anthony someone that is that unlikable?
TIM MILLER, LED SEARCH FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: You know, we`ve done 950-plus cases before the Caylee Anthony case. And I`ll never, ever forget meeting Casey for the first time. And I spent four days in the house with her.
And I knew that something wasn`t right. Something wasn`t right, I don`t believe. And when I really realized something wasn`t right is when Jose Baez showed up and he just said, "Thanks for being here, and you can do anything you need to find little Caylee, but don`t ask my client any questions about her daughter."
Which when we search for somebody that`s missing, we get as much information as we can. And so there was a lot of confusion going on.
I mean, people just came from 13 different states. I`ve still got a very bitter taste in my mouth.
I think we were lied to all the way around from literally everybody in the family. And I`m certainly not going to beat the Anthonys up. But, I mean, God, we spent $112,000 on that case alone.
We neglected other families that need us -- and needed us. And I actually pulled the plug on that search. I wasn`t going to do it.
I knew we could not be effective. And then Sheriff Barry (ph) called me and he asked me if I`d do him a favor and we`d stay and do that search.
And I made some of the best decisions on that search that were ever made on a search. We`ve had a lot of success. But we were literally less than eight feet away from little Caylee`s body when -- the first time we were searching.
POLITAN: Wow.
MILLER: And actually have pictures of how high the water was. And our team leader, Helen (ph), called me up when she was out there and said, "Tim, there`s some things floating around out here, but I don`t know what to do because the water is literally up to my knees."
And I`ll never, ever forget meeting with the sheriff`s department afterwards and saying, "Listen, I want to make a big decision right here, and I hope you support me. But we need to suspend this search." I said, "I`m afraid if little Caylee is under the water somewhere, we`re going to have a horse step on her or a Ford (ph) go over her, even a ground searcher step on her and just think there`s some debris and really jeopardize any future search efforts. And I think we could do more harm than good."
And then when I came back later --
POLITAN: Absolutely.
MILLER: -- the conditions still were not as good as we wanted, and as we have well seen. And when the water dried up a week or 10 days later --
(CROSSTALK)
POLITAN: You know what`s interesting, Tim, as this jury is deliberating, we`re getting a taste of the weather that you had, because it`s almost three years. And this is the rainy season here. I mean, when it rains, it rains down here.
In his closing argument, Jeff Ashton talked about why, why at this point, why would Casey Anthony kill her daughter at this point. He had an explanation. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHTON: The only way Casey`s lies work is if Caylee isn`t talking. Caylee`s 2-and-a-half, almost 3. She`s starting to become verbal. She`s starting to talk.
It just can`t keep going. We can only hope that the chloroform was used before the tape was applied so that Caylee went peacefully.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POLITAN: This argument really struck me, Jane, the fact that here is this little girl growing up, and Casey is living a world of lies. But now Caylee is at the point where she can verbalize and tell everyone what`s really happening.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, that was a great commonsense point by the prosecution, showing that the road was getting narrower for Casey Anthony. Her parents were becoming more and more suspicious. And, at the same time, the little girl is getting more verbal.
POLITAN: Much more straight ahead.
I`m Vinnie Politan, live in Orlando, sitting in for Dr. Drew.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
POLITAN: I`m Vinnie Politan, sitting in for Dr. Drew. He`ll be back tomorrow.
Now, if you want Casey Anthony coverage, we`ve got it. If you want expert analysis, it`s here on HLN.
Everything about this trial seems so unbelievable, including air samples that contain the smell of death. Another striking element is Casey`s world of make believe.
Watch this from defense attorney Jose Baez.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: Zanny the nanny from 2006, she`s a perfect 10. She used to date Jeffrey Hopkins (ph).
Remember how much amazement Mr. Ashton found in how she could remember these things?
She has long black hair but got it cut several times over two years. She has a beautiful smile, straight white teeth. She drives a Ford Focus, and her family is wealthy and they come from New York. And the Carolinas and Miami.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
POLITAN: And here`s what Jose Baez finished with: "If a person lives in this kind of world, this cover-up makes more sense."
Back with me, Jen Barringer, consultant for the Casey Anthony defense team, and attorney and author Lisa Bloom in Los Angeles, the author of the new book "Think."
Jen, what did Baez mean here by using the word "cover-up"? And what do you think the jury is going to make of this fantasy world? It just sounds like more lies.
BARRINGER: Well, you know, I think Jose did what he had to do. He had to buy a little credibility and say we know that our client is a liar. We know that she`s told a lot of tall tales.
But, in a sense, he also has to go in and deconstruct this case and say, but why is this? What is wrong with this girl? She has a life and she has a family that is used to lying.
They didn`t talk about her pregnancy. He brought all these things up at trial.
So I think he was simultaneously trying to buy some creditability with the jury, but also deconstructing part of the state`s case that they had.
POLITAN: Lisa Bloom, why does she lie?
BLOOM: I love that question. There`s only one reason why anybody lies in this world. You lie to make yourself look better. You lie because you`ve screwed up and you don`t want to confess to it.
You don`t lie to make yourself look worse. So you don`t have an accident involving a child and you lie to make it look like murder.
I believe, and I`ve said this all along, that Casey Anthony is a sociopath. I think she has got a high level of intelligence, as many sociopath do. But she lied and lied and lied. She got away with it for years, and she had to lie about her daughter`s disappearance because the only way to try to get out of it. Ultimately, it didn`t work.
But no one is going to believe that she lies just for fun. That just doesn`t mesh with common sense.
POLITAN: And it`s common sense. And again, it comes back to what Jeff Ashton was talking about.
Jeff Ashton said you don`t take an innocent, accidental drowning and cover it up to make it look like first-degree murder. And again, that`s the theme here from the defense, that you`re framing Casey Anthony for murder, facing the death penalty, because her daughter accidentally drowned in the pool? What world is that normal?
I just don`t know if anyone can buy that argument. It`s difficult.
BARRINGER: No, he`s drawing a really fine line.
POLITAN: I think it`s really difficult to sell that to 12 jurors.
Well, anyhow, jurors have stopped deliberations for tonight. Perhaps they`re checking out some fireworks. Logging in almost six hours before the judge sent them back to their hotel.
Just who are these people deciding Casey Anthony`s fate? And can any of them vote to convict and kill a young woman?
That`s ahead. I`m Vinnie Politan, in for the doc. Drew will be back tomorrow.
END
