Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Casey Anthony Murder Case Goes to the Jury; Casey Anthony Trial Verdict Watch
Aired July 04, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDA DRANE BURDICK, PROSECUTOR: At the end of this case, all you really have to do is ask yourself a simple question. Whose life was better without Caylee? Was Cindy Anthony`s life better?
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: My daughter finally admitted that the baby-sitter stole her! I need to find her!
911 OPERATOR: Your daughter admitted that your -- the baby is where?
CINDY ANTHONY: That the baby-sitter took her a month ago, that my daughter`s been looking for her. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can`t find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself. There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the car!
BURDICK: Was George Anthony`s life better? Mr. Ashton went over what George Anthony`s life was like as a result of losing his beloved granddaughter. Whose life was better?
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey?
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Mom.
CINDY ANTHONY: Hi, sweetie.
CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, I just saw your nice little cameo on TV.
CINDY ANTHONY: Which one?
CASEY ANTHONY: What do you mean, which one?
CINDY ANTHONY: Which one? I did four different ones, and I don`t know -- I haven`t seen them all. I`ve only seen one or two so far.
CASEY ANTHONY: You don`t know what my involvement is in stuff?
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey.
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom.
CINDY ANTHONY: What? No, I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart. You`re not telling me where she`s at.
CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she`s at! Are you kidding me.
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey, don`t waste your call to scream and holler at me.
CASEY ANTHONY: No. Waste my call, sitting in, oh, the jail?
CINDY ANTHONY: Whose fault...
CASEY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) are?
CINDY ANTHONY: Whose fault is you sitting in the jail? Are you blaming me that you`re sitting in the jail.
CASEY ANTHONY: No...
(CROSSTALK)
CINDY ANTHONY: Blame yourself for telling lies. You mean it`s not your fault -- what do you mean, it`s not your fault, sweetheart? If you had told them the truth and not lied about everything, they wouldn`t...
CASEY ANTHONY: Do me a favor. Just tell me what Tony`s number is. I don`t want to talk to you right now. Forget it.
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t have his number.
CASEY ANTHONY: Well, get it from Lee because I know Lee`s at the house. I saw Mallory`s car was out front. It was just on the news. They were live outside the house.
CINDY ANTHONY: I know they were.
CASEY ANTHONY: Well?
CINDY ANTHONY: Well?
CASEY ANTHONY: Can you get Tony`s number for me so I can call him? Can you give me Tony`s number?
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: I -- I can do that. I don`t know what real good it`s going to do you at this point.
CASEY ANTHONY: Well, I`d like to talk to him anyway.
LEE ANTHONY: But...
CASEY ANTHONY: No! No! I want Tony`s number! I`m not talking to anybody else.
Do me a favor. Get my brother back because I need Tony`s number. He`s my boyfriend and I want to actually try to sit and talk to him because I didn`t get a chance to talk to him earlier because I got arrested on a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) whim today because they`re blaming me for stuff that I never would do and that I didn`t do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey, I`ll die! Do you understand? I`ll die if anything happened to that baby!
CASEY ANTHONY: Whoa. Oh, my God. Calling you guys, a waste. Huge waste. Honey, I love you. You know I would not let anything happen to my daughter. If I knew where she was, this wouldn`t be going on.
I`m not sitting here (EXPLETIVE DELETED) crying every two seconds because I have to stay composed to talk to detectives, to make other phone calls, to do other things. I can`t sit here and be crying every two seconds like I want to.
BURDICK: Pathological liar. She`s not grieving the accidental death of her daughter. Her focus in that call was where it had been for that day and the 31 days preceding it, and that is with Tony Lazzaro. That`s all she wanted to do when she called her parents, aside from cuss them out -- I want Tony`s number.
Whose life was better? That`s the only question you need to answer in considering why Caylee Marie Anthony was left on the side of the road, dead.
There`s your answer.
Casey Anthony would have you believe that it`s -- this is all her mother`s fault anyway for leaving the ladder down -- let`s twist the knife in my mom a little more. The cover-up is her dad`s fault. Let`s twist the knife in him, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Bombshell tonight. We are in a verdict watch here at the Orange County courthouse. In the last hours, Orlando prosecutor Linda Drane Burdick brings down the hammer in final closing arguments, causing tot mom to burst into tears as she kisses her last chance for freedom good-bye.
Straight to Jean Casarez. Jean, even tot mom`s lawyer starts crying.
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": You know, Nancy it was really amazing. It was the first break of the morning. It was just after Jeff Ashton had argued to the jury about George Anthony, his demeanor on that stand, his love for Caylee, his wanting to be with Caylee, and that if anything had happened, he would have called 911, he would have performed CPR. Break. Jurors leave. Casey Anthony starts to cry. Dorothy Clay Simms, who looked very tired and worn today, held her hand and appeared to start to cry, too.
GRACE: Drane Burdick showed no mercy in the final closing arguments. Everybody, we are live here at the Orlando, Orange County, courthouse, camped outside, in our own way seeking justice for Caylee. We are taking your calls.
In the last hours, the judge has just released the jury. They have been deliberating for hours today. The final words they heard ringing in their ears were those of Linda Drane Burdick, the female prosecutor for the state. And what a closing argument she gave.
Of course, earlier that morning, defense attorney Jose Baez made a big production of yawning through the state`s closing arguments, but it was anything but sleep-inducing.
We are taking your calls. Out to Ellie Jostad. Ellie, the high points of the closing arguments -- hit me.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, I think the high point of this closing argument was the end. She said -- she asked the question, "Whose life was better" with Caylee Anthony dead? She showed two pictures. On one side, we saw a party picture, that picture where tot mom is wearing a blue dress. She`s in the hot body contest. On the other side, the jurors saw the "Bella vita" tattoo. She put those pictures up on the screen and she said, There`s your answer.
GRACE: Also joining us, Natisha Lance, Jim Hoover, Jo-Ellan Dimitrius.
Back to you, Jean Casarez. So many bombshells in Linda Drane Burdick`s closing argument. And I can only imagine what the jury did when they started those deliberations, those words ringing in their ears. What other highlights stick out to you? And when was it tot mom broke down in tears and her lawyer starts crying, too?
CASAREZ: Here`s what really stuck out with me, when Linda Drane Burdick argued to the jury that Casey Anthony was the most documented liar that you have ever seen in a courtroom, and then went on to say that the defense says 31 days has no relevance. No relevance, she says, 31 days? The lies were diverting the truth. The lies were because someone was guilty. The lies were buying time.
GRACE: Take a listen to Linda Drane Burdick bringing down the hammer on tot mom. It was so powerful that not only tot mom burst into tears, so did her legal team.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURDICK: She was buying time, like she had done with her parents, her brother, her friends. The 31 days are really meaningless? Did I hear that? Did I hear a version of that? Counsel suggested that the detailing of what Ms. Anthony was doing during these 31 days had more to do with the state trying to prove that she was a slut? Did I hear that? Nothing could be further from the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The jury sitting there in silence, staring as Drane Burdick drills it all home.
We are here outside the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the very latest in the trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee.
And today, what a pattern the prosecution weaved in its closing statements. Then the judge gave the jury the law. The jury charges, by which they`re to judge this case, and the jury began deliberations.
We are taking your calls live. Unleash the lawyers. Joining us, John Manuelian, criminal defense attorney, LA, Anne Bremner, high-profile defense attorney, Seattle.
Anne, you know the state had a good closing when not only the defendant, tot mom, but her lawyers, as well, start crying as the state gives the closing statement.
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, yes, but they have the last word. It was a very powerful closing. But Jose Baez really stepped up and gave a good closing on fantasy forensics, fantasy brain tumors and fantasy friends. And so you know, the crying, it happens.
GRACE: Whoa! Wait a minute!
BREMNER: It`s not the end of the world.
GRACE: Put Bremner up! What was the good part in Jose Baez`s closing statement, where he backed off his Roy Kronk theory and had to shore up the defense case without any evidence of accidental drowning and no evidence about molestations on tot mom by her brother and her father -- how unlikely is that -- to the point where the judge barred him from arguing it? Now, what was the good part, Bremner?
BREMNER: The good part, Nancy, was that he argued all the inferences from the evidence. She loved to swim. The ladder was up, and the fact that there was all these...
GRACE: No, no! No, no!
BREMNER: ... you know, fantasy parts of the state`s case...
GRACE: Put her back up. Put her back up!
BREMNER: I`m back. Yes?
GRACE: No, no! In Cindy Anthony`s deposition under oath she stated she took the ladder off the pool the night before Caylee goes missing. And by the time she got into the house, Caylee was already in the bathtub with tot mom. That was her sworn testimony. So what do you mean? You said the ladder was up?
BREMNER: Well, you had evidence during the course of the trial that it could have been up. You`ve got the -- Caylee opening...
GRACE: Could have been up?
BREMNER: ... the sliding glass door. But you know what? Those are the inferences, Nancy, because you`ve got a case where there is no cause of death. And so the fact is...
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) glass door?
BREMNER: Yes. Right. But there`s inferences of accident that he argued, and I thought he did a great job with what he had. And the fact of the matter is, he reminded the jury about how serious this case is, how -- basically, indicated about a potential death case by saying her life is in your hands, and if you don`t know how this child died and you don`t know anything about the circumstances...
GRACE: OK, so...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... he reminded the jury that this is a death penalty case, and you think that`s great. OK, Anne. What about it, Manuelian?
BREMNER: No, but it`s the seriousness, Nancy. It`s the seriousness.
JOHN MANUELIAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy...
GRACE: Manuelian, weigh in.
MANUELIAN: Nancy, you`re -- yes, you`re shocking me. It`s an awful defense. Of course we know it. It`s a smoke and mirrors defense. Nobody`s surprised about that. But Jose Baez had a very, very tough case. What else was he supposed to do? This guy`s trying to pull a rabbit out of a hat. That`s his job.
GRACE: OK, let me...
MANUELIAN: Let`s not fool ourselves. I don`t think he...
GRACE: ... corral you two back in. It`s like trying to herd cats. We`re talking about what happened a couple of hours ago, not what happened yesterday. I`m talking about Linda Drane Burdick`s closing argument that was so strong...
MANUELIAN: OK, I`ll tell you...
GRACE: ... not only did tot mom start crying, but her lawyers, her defense team started crying, too!
MANUELIAN: You get emotionally involved...
GRACE: Go ahead, Manuelian. Hit me!
MANUELIAN: You get emotionally involved sometimes. It`s hard for you to understand. It`s almost like asking somebody, Do you know what it`s like to raise a child, when they don`t -- when they don`t have a child. When that`s -- you`re part of your case for three years. You get emotionally involved.
GRACE: We are live at the Orlando courthouse, taking your calls and bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of little Caylee.
And today, a powerhouse closing statement by Linda Drane Burdick. By now, that jury will have picked their foreman, their foreperson, and jury deliberations have begun.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURDICK: There`s nothing that is wrong with Casey Anthony...
CASEY ANTHONY: Are you kidding me?
BURDICK: ... that can`t be explained using two words.
CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she`s at!
BURDICK: Pathological liar.
If this truly was an accident in the pool, Caylee Anthony would have been found floating in the pool, not floating in a swamp down the street. The way these remains were disposed of...
CASEY ANTHONY: They just want Caylee back.
BURDICK: ... shows complete, complete indifference to the child.
CASEY ANTHONY: Tell me what Tony`s number is. I don`t want to talk to you right now.
BURDICK: It speaks volumes about how the person who disposed of her really felt about her.
CASEY ANTHONY: I can`t sit here and be crying every two seconds.
BURDICK: If this was an accident that George Anthony knew about, he told you...
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: If I would have known something would have happened to Caylee, we wouldn`t be here today.
BURDICK: ... he would never have scooped up his granddaughter and put her in a bag and threw her in the woods. Never!
What do guilty people do? They lie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) talk to anybody. You can talk to me. And you know that.
CASEY ANTHONY: I know I can talk to you. But at the same time, I know I can talk to Tony.
BURDICK: She`s not grieving the accidental death of her daughter.
CASEY ANTHONY: That`s who I want to talk to right now.
BURDICK: Her focus in that call was where it had been for that day...
CASEY ANTHONY: Because he`s my boyfriend.
BURDICK: ... and the 31 days preceding it.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve been looking for her, which was stupid.
BURDICK: And that is with Tony Lazzaro.
CASEY ANTHONY: Surprise, surprise.
BURDICK: If this truly was an accident in the pool, Caylee Anthony would have been found floating in the pool, not floating in a swamp down the street. If this was an accident that George Anthony knew about, he told you we wouldn`t be here today. I wouldn`t be here. They wouldn`t be here. She wouldn`t be here. You wouldn`t be here.
If he was home, as they suggested, when there was an accident in the pool, he would have called 911. He would have tried CPR. He would have never scooped up his granddaughter and put her in a bag and threw her in the woods. Never!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live outside the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee. In the last hours, the jury heard a home run from Linda Drane Burdick, the prosecution`s female defense (SIC) attorney. They went into jury deliberations with those words ringing in their ears, to the point where tot mom and her lawyers break down and start crying during the closing statements.
We are taking your calls. To Kelly in California. Hi, Kelly, what`s your question? I think I have Kelly. Are you there, dear?
OK, let`s try Edna in Georgia. Hi, Edna, are you there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I am.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I was wondering why Casey Anthony was not handcuffed or had ankle shackles on her feet while the case was going on.
GRACE: I can tell you that, Edna, without going to the lawyers. It has been held under the interpretation of our Constitution, when judges make rulings from the bench, that for the jury to see the defendant in shackles, hand, foot or full shackles around the waist or in prison blues, that it is a comment on their guilt or innocence.
And that is why you always have the defendant, quote, "dressed out" to come to court. Regardless of whether the defense attorney provides the clothes, the family provides the clothes, the jury is never to see the defendant in prison or jail garb. Again, it is presumed to be a comment on their guilt.
We are live outside the Orange County courthouse, bringing you the latest and taking your calls, the jury in deliberation. We are in a verdict watch here in Orlando.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURDICK: The most well documented liar ever seen in a courtroom. Ms. Anthony has spent years lying. Why are you lying to us? The defendant`s lies changed. They got bigger, they got better, they involved more people to get Casey out of a jam, and lie and lie and lie and lie. (INAUDIBLE) longer what happened to Caylee Marie Anthony? We know what happened to Caylee. The question is, who killed Caylee?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live outside the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee. What a day in the courtroom today. In the last hours, the jury hears a home run knocked by Linda Drane Burdick, the female prosecutor for the state. And with those words ringing in their ears, the jury begins their deliberations. They have had dinner and gone home for the evening. They start again 0830 hours tomorrow morning.
We are taking your calls live. But to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. There were so many highlights in Drane Burdick`s closing argument, what sticks out to you, Ellie?
JOSTAD (via telephone): Well, Nancy, she also played what I think is one of the most compelling pieces of evidence in this case. She played that jail call, the night after Casey Anthony got arrested, calls home. She talks to her mother. She talks to her brother. She talks to a family friend who`s trying to get some answers from her. And all Casey Anthony wants is Tony Lazzaro`s phone number.
When they ask her about Caylee and ask her -- you know, start (INAUDIBLE) family member even starts crying and asking where Caylee is, sad that something might have happened to her. Casey Anthony says, Calling you guys, a huge waste.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez. You were in the courtroom, along with everyone else today. What was tot mom`s reaction and what were the jurors` reactions when they see the real tot mom?
CASAREZ (via telephone): Well, Casey Anthony had a lot of reactions today. For instance, when they played the phone call from jail where she tells her father, You`re such a great, great father, she mouthed something (INAUDIBLE) and when her attorneys made an objection, which they did all through Linda Drane Burdick`s closing, she disagreed when the judge overruled the objection.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDA DRANE BURDICK, PROSECUTOR: Whose life was better without Caylee? Whose life was better? Was George Anthony`s life better?
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: I believe I failed her.
BURDICK: Was Cindy Anthony`s life better?
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: Caylee`s dead.
BURDICK: That`s the only question you need to answer in considering why Caylee Marie Anthony was left on the side of the road dead.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: Someone just said that Caylee was dead this morning. That she drowned in the pool.
BURDICK: When Caylee Anthony is found dead on December 11th of 2008 --
CASEY ANTHONY: Surprise, surprise.
BURDICK: Surprise, surprise, an accident.
JEFF ASHTON, STATE PROSECUTOR: People don`t make accidents look like murder.
BURDICK: He would have called 911. He would have tried CPR. He would never have scooped up his granddaughter and put her in a bag and threw her in the woods. Never.
One of the things that Casey Anthony said to her mother when she picked her up from her boyfriend Tony`s apartment was that she just wanted another day. She wanted more time. She`s trying to buy time.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Welcome back. We are live outside the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the very latest in the trial of tot mom Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl.
We are in a verdict watch. The jury has begun its deliberations. And the last thing they heard was the voice of Linda Drane-Burdick, drilling home a closing argument that was so powerful, it made not only the defendant, tot mom, but her lawyers start crying as well.
We are taking your calls live. To Natisha Lance in the courtroom, all day, every day.
Natisha, weigh in on those closing arguments.
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, those closing arguments were extremely powerful today. I think one of the most telling moments is when Linda Drane-Burdick played that jail visitation between Casey Anthony and her parents where Cindy Anthony says to her, the newest theory by the media is that Caylee drowned in the pool, and Casey Anthony`s response was surprise, surprise. And Linda Drane-Burdick repeated that surprise, surprise.
But I want to tell you, Nancy, there are numerous people who are out here today. They have been inside the courtroom, some of them. Many of them have also received tickets to be inside the courtroom tomorrow. They, along with us, are waiting on a verdict watch.
I did speak to a -- to a courthouse administrator today and one of the things that they told me is that the courthouse was open today on the July 4th holiday. Never before in the Orange County courthouse`s history have they ever opened up the courthouse on a national holiday.
So Casey Anthony`s case, this judge is moving forward. Wants this jury to do their deliberations as clearly as they possibly can but has also been pushing through, keeping in mind that they are a sequestered jury.
GRACE: To Natisha -- Natisha outside the courthouse right now, where is tot mom right now?
LANCE: Nancy, she has been transported back to the jail that she is being housed in. But during deliberations, she will be brought to the courthouse, she will remain in the courthouse during deliberations every day, starting tomorrow at 8:30 a.m. They will go until about 6:00 p.m. Tonight they wrapped up a little bit earlier because of the Fourth of July holiday.
Now it is raining behind me, as you can see, but many of -- the judge did say that there was going to be a lot of traffic in this area. So he wanted to make sure to get the jurors back home tonight, but tomorrow they could go past 6:00 p.m. time slot --
GRACE: OK.
LANCE: -- that has been allotted for them.
GRACE: To Michael Christian, joining us from "In Session."
Michael, you were in the courtroom as well. Weigh in on closings.
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, "IN SESSION" (via phone): You know I thought they were terrific from the prosecution`s point. I thought the defense did a good job with what they had. The problem for the defense is that they don`t have nearly as much to work with.
I thought Jose Baez did a decent job. I was a little disappointed with Cheney Mason. There were a lot of pundits, Nancy, who said that, you know, Jose Baez was not doing a very good job in this case and maybe he should just completely leave the closing arguments up to Cheney Mason.
I think after people heard Baez and then mason, they realized that the defense made the right decision by having Baez do most of it.
But I think that there`s no question that the prosecution outscored them. They`re just very smooth, and I don`t mean that in any slick or negative way, they`re just very smooth speakers and they were definitely talking directly to that jury.
GRACE: Joining us tonight and taking your calls is a witness in this case, Jim Hoover. Remember the former private investigator to the Anthony family? He testified for the Anthony defense.
Mr. Hoover, thank you for being with us.
JIM HOOVER, FORMER PRIVATE INVESTIGATION FOR THE ANTHONY FAMILY: Glad to be here.
GRACE: Mr. Hoover, it`s tough being a private eye sometimes. You`re looking for all sorts of things. Don`t always find what you`re looking for. Sometimes you find what you don`t want to find.
Let me ask you something. This has been the source of a lot of speculation. You went to the scene.
Let`s see the video, Liz.
You went out to the scene. Looking for tot mom`s remains. You are very, very close to where her remains were ultimately found. What sent you out there, Jim Hoover?
HOOVER: Dominick Casey called me on November 14th and asked me to provide security for Cindy and George. The next day I met Dominick in his office. The next day he asked me to go into the office, he told me he had something important to tell me, I asked him what it was, he told me that he knew where Caylee was.
And I said, fine, let`s go get her, thinking that she was alive. He said, we can`t, she`s dead. And then he asked me to drive him down to the wooded area. We went in my car and then that`s basically how I got there.
GRACE: Well hold on. When he told you she`s dead, Caylee`s dead, did you say, how do you know that?
HOOVER: Well, he -- after he said that, you know, I asked him basically how he knew, he just said he had a tip. Then he asked me, yes, you don`t ask about tips, you don`t compromise people`s tips or things like that. But he never did once -- he never ever told me it was from a psychic. He told me about tips previously from psychics, but never about this being a psychic tip.
GRACE: Now, Dominick Casey, at that time, was working for the Baez defense team, was he not?
HOOVER: No, ma`am.
GRACE: Who was he working for?
HOOVER: He was working for George and Cindy.
GRACE: So he was working for the Anthony family and he is telling you he had a tip that not only did he know where the body was, but that Caylee was dead. And this is before her body`s found, right?
HOOVER: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: Now, we`re talking about Dominick Casey, private eye for the Anthony family at the time.
Jim, where did he tell you to look and how close were you to the ultimate spot where Caylee`s remains were found?
HOOVER: Well, I went down there -- well, as I testified, when you go down suburban drive, there are several poles and we entered at about the third pole, just a little bit maybe 10 feet to the left of the pole.
I went down there the other day, just to basically say good-bye to Caylee and disappointed I didn`t find her. But it appeared we were within, like, 65, 75 feet of her.
GRACE: So you`re telling me tonight that you were about 65 to 75 feet away from where her body was finally found. When you testified to the defense, they suggested to the jury that because you did not see Caylee`s remains that day that she wasn`t there, that obviously someone other than tot mom came and put the body there while tot mom was behind bars.
How does that jive with what you`re telling me tonight?
HOOVER: Well, you know, I mean, it is a messy area. Very overgrown. Like I said, we went in about 65 feet away. But then we went -- we turned to our right, which would be going toward Hope Spring. We`re actually really closer to where they found the body, I truly believe that. Whether the body was there or not, I don`t know. All I have to do was find her.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, you just told me 65 to 75 feet from the body. So now how close do you think you were to Caylee`s body?
HOOVER: I think we only went maybe 40 feet to our right. And if the -- if they found the body where they had the memorial to Caylee yesterday, probably within -- probably within 30 feet or so.
GRACE: So if you`re 30 feet away, Mr. Hoover, what do you -- what do you make of Jose Baez arguing to the jury that because you didn`t find her that she wasn`t there then? That somebody else had to hide the body there?
I mean that is a miscarriage of justice for him to have suggested that because what you`re telling me tonight, that you`re somewhere between 30 and 65 feet away from where her body was finally found. You never got to the spot where her body was.
HOOVER: No, I was disappointed that neither the defense nor the prosecution offered to take me. I don`t know if they offered to take Dominick or not to the area so we can show them where we actually were. Nobody offered that in the last three years.
GRACE: Everyone, joining me tonight, a former private investigator to the Anthony family, Jim Hoover. And he`s taking your calls.
To tonight`s case alert, we remember fallen hero Tennessee Police Officer Timothy Warren, gunned down in the line of duty at a double shooting at a hotel in Memphis. Warren, responding to a domestic Sunday night, 39, an eight-year Memphis police vet, leaves behind a wife and two little children.
Officer Timothy Warren. Good night, friend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you have something as tragic as this, with the amount of time that the police officers has been together, we`re like family, so when you have something like this, as if something happened to one of your own family members.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURDICK: Let`s now look at the big picture here.
CASEY ANTHONY: I would lie. I would steal. I would do whatever, by any means.
BURDICK: What do guilty people do? They lie. They avoid. They run. They mislead. Not just their family, but the police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now that we`re giving you this opportunity, you continue to lie and you continue to lie.
BURDICK: If this truly was an accident in the pool, Caylee Anthony would have been found floating in the pool, not floating in a swamp down the street. If this was an accident that George Anthony knew about, he told you, we wouldn`t be here today.
G. ANTHONY: I would have known something would have happened to Caylee, we wouldn`t be here today.
BURDICK: He would never have scooped up his granddaughter and put her in a bag and threw her in the woods. Never. You heard the Dr. Garavaglia say - -
DR. JAN GARAVAGLIA, ORANGE/OSCEOLA CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: The manner of death in this case is homicide.
BURDICK: So when Caylee Anthony is found dead --
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live in the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest, closing arguments have finished and we are in a verdict watch here at Orange County, Orlando, bringing you the very latest in the trial of Casey Anthony, tot mom on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl.
Let`s talk about the jury. Those deliberations in full swing.
To Jo-Ellan Demetrius, jury consultant on many high-profile cases, joining us out of L.A..
You studied the jury. What do you make of it?
JO-ELLAN DEMETRIUS, JURY CONSULTANT: Well, Nancy, I think that clearly with this final rebuttal closing today by the prosecutors, I think that if there were anybody on the fence, certainly it would make them more now vote towards guilty.
I do, however, think that there may be at least one person who, you know, may be hanging on to that reasonable doubt component. I think the fact that we haven`t had a verdict today, I think they are clearly just talking to one another right now and whomever is the holdout, if you will, is trying to be convinced by everybody else and vice versa.
Perhaps that person is trying to bring them over into his or her role. I think that that juror, from what I understand, is probably juror number five.
That said, Nancy, we all know that jurors will do strange things to try to avoid being identified in terms of being either a prosecution or defense juror. And it could be, you know --
GRACE: Could be, you know what?
DEMETRIUS: I`m sorry. It could be a situation where they have been told by the deputies, do not show any sort of emotion in the courtroom.
I know on other high profile cases in which I worked they have said that.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know, I don`t think that -- I don`t believe that the jurors would be given an instruction on how to behave. I`m not sure I think that applied to onlookers and witnesses.
To Matt Zarrell, you know, I didn`t expect them to come back with a jury -- with a jury verdict today. It only has been a couple of hours. They`ve only been at it a little over five hours, right?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY (via phone): Yes, they have, Nancy. And we are expecting them to come back 8:30 tomorrow morning.
One thing that`s interesting, though, is juror number five, as Ellan talked about. He did not look at Ashton during Ashton`s first closing a couple of days ago. Do not want to make eye contact with Ashton. So I wonder what that means, if he`s the jury foreman, and we haven`t found that out yet.
Another thing that`s important to point out is the state made to hammer home that there is no way you would cover up an accident and make it look like murder. Why would you do that? Both Ashton and Burdick hammered that home multiple times, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, another thing, unleash the lawyers, John Manuelian, Anne Bremner.
Anne Bremner, here`s the deal. Their theory, the defense theory is that Caylee died by an accidental drowning. George Anthony, father George Anthony, found her. He was trying to save tot mom from a child neglect charge so he set it up to look like a murder.
But now, by sticking with the drowning theory, he`s letting her go to jail potentially for life or the death penalty. So don`t you think, if his motivation, as the defense says, is to save tot mom from jail time, then he would come clean now since they`re looking at a death penalty, Anne?
It`s not just child neglect anymore. That whole theory doesn`t even make sense, Anne.
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know what Jose Baez said is he doesn`t have a paternalistic bone in his body. And what he`s basically saying, he`s kind of abandoned the drowning, and just talked about inferences. It could be a drowning, it could the pool, it could be an accident, it could be a lot of things but murder.
And he`s saying the state didn`t prove it. So that`s the way he`s gone on George Anthony, and of course demonized him through the whole trial and I think successfully so to a certain extent.
GRACE: OK. Yes, since they never proved anything about the allegations they made in opening statements against George Anthony, I don`t know how successful they were in demonizing him.
Manuelian, let`s see if you can answer that question. What about it?
JOHN MANUELIAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I can.
GRACE: The whole premise doesn`t even make sense.
MANUELIAN: Is doesn`t. But this is a really, really tough case. If this was Texas Hold`em, he`d have a two, three offsuit. What was he supposed to do? A good attorney is supposed to zealously represent their client, right? So he put on a smoke and mirrors defense and he hopes that one or two jurors bite. It`s that plain and simple.
GRACE: To Aaron Brehove, body language expert, senior instruction at Body Language Institute. You watched everyone in court today. Weigh in.
AARON BREHOVE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT, SENIOR INSTRUCTOR, BODY LANGUAGE INSTITUTE: Well, we see -- you said Linda Drane-Burdick, you said she had a homerun with her closing today? Her rebuttal closing? And her -- the content was, but also her body language.
It was great. She came, she`s very powerful at points, and she also came with a little bit of domineering body language. Then in other points, she gave palms up gesture. She had palms up and said, come with me. Understand. Use your common sense here.
And she used these little -- the she used the emblems as well. She used the A-OK sign. She had the A-OK, she did this while giving some of the statements. It`s a sign that says, everything is OK. And she used these things terrifically.
GRACE: You know, another issue, Ellie Jostad, you were in court, apparently when Linda Drane-Burdick was going over her trying to blame Cindy Anthony, her trying to blame George Anthony, tot mom actually mouthed the words, it`s not his fault.
Now that`s pretty much of a bombshell, Ellie, since the whole defense is trying to make it George`s fault and then tot mom in the middle of closing statements by the prosecution says it`s not his fault. What about that?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER (via phone): Right, Nancy. Well, what happened is she was going over the fact that Casey Anthony was twisting the knife, blaming both of her parents for Caylee`s death, blaming Cindy for allegedly leaving this pool ladder attached, and when she was talking about that, we heard -- or it looked like Casey said, I would never blame my mother. And then when she was talking about George, it looked like she mouthed, it`s not his fault.
GRACE: We`re watching it right now. You`re right, Ellie.
To Dr. Helen Morrison, forensic psychiatrist, author of "My Life Among Serial Killers," weigh in, Doctor.
DR. HELEN MORRISON, M.D., FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST, AUTHOR OF "MY LIFE AMONG THE SERIAL KILLERS": The bottom line is reasonable doubt. The words really mean nothing to these jurors. The pictures are worth a thousand words. And you still have to figure that the reasonable doubt issue, the juror has to be convinced looking at all the evidence on both sides to a certainty that this occurred.
You can`t say that no doubt existed. Of course it does. In all human interaction, you have doubt. But the legal standard is much higher.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: We are in a verdict watch here at the Orlando, Orange County courthouse bringing you the latest. We are live camped outside the courtroom. The jury has been in deliberations all day.
Straight out to Dr. Zhonghue Hua, Union County chief medical examiner, DNA expert. I`ve got a question for you, Doctor. How hard would it be to make an accidental drowning of this little girl look like a murder and the crime scene set up like it was? How difficult would that be for a civilian?
DR. ZHONGXUE HUA, UNION COUNTY, NJ, MEDICAL EXAMINER, DNA EXPERT: First, it`s almost impossible. Near impossible. Second thing is what`s the answer to doing this. There is none. If someone dies of drowning for obvious reason, you should never have duct tape around your nose and mouth area. Based on all the evidence presented in the case, certainly point to direct in homicide.
GRACE: Everyone, we are live outside the courthouse. Today in the courtroom we finally heard about little Caylee.
Michael Christian, you watched the jury. How did they respond?
CHRISTIAN: You know, what was fascinating about them is when they cam came back today, Nancy, just before they were released for the day, because they didn`t look particularly tired, they didn`t look particularly worn down, the most striking thing was that the jury box looked so empty because the five alternates weren`t there.
But I was really reading them. They weren`t necessarily looking at Casey. They pretty much came in, they looked at the judge. They left but they looked happy if there`s any dissention in that room --
GRACE: Right.
CHRISTIAN: -- there certainly was no sign of it this afternoon.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop. Tonight we celebrate the Fourth of July. And we remember all of those men and women who sacrificed their lives for our freedom.
Tonight we remember Marine Corporal Jordan Pierson, 21, Milford, Connecticut, killed Iraq. Awarded two Purple Hearts, Navy and Marine Corps Achievement medals. Put studies at the University of Connecticut on hold to enlist. Loved UCon Huskies, video games, movies, riding with the Complete Chaos Motorcycle Club.
A city park in his hometown named in his honor. Favorite snack, pizza rolls. Favorite bible verse, John 15:13. "Greater love has no one than this that he lay down his life for his friends."
Jordan Pierson. American hero.
Thanks to all our guests. But our biggest thank you is to you for being with us. And as many celebrate the Fourth tonight, we do not forget those that serve our country to protect us.
I`m Nancy Grace. I`ll see you tomorrow night where we will be here live outside the Orlando courthouse in our own way seeking justice for Caylee. Until then, good night, friend.
END
