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Nancy Grace
Jury Clears Casey Anthony of all Charges in Caylee`s Death
Aired July 05, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Florida versus Casey Marie Anthony as to case number 2008 CF 15606-O. As to the charge of first degree murder, verdict as to count one, we the jury find the defendant not guilty. So say we all. Dated at Orlando, Orange County, Florida, on this 5th day of July, 2011. Signed, foreperson.
As to the charge of aggravated child abuse, verdict as to count two, we the jury find the defendant not guilty. So say we all. Dated at Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011. Signed, foreperson.
As to the charge of aggravated manslaughter of a child, verdict as to count three, we the jury find the defendant not guilty. So say we all. Dated at Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011. Signed, foreperson.
As to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, verdict as to count four, we the jury find the defendant guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer as charged in the indictment. So say we all. Dated Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011. Signed, foreperson.
As to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, verdict as to count five, we the jury find the defendant guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer as charged in the indictment. So say we all. Dated Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011. Signed, foreperson.
As to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, verdict as to count six, we the jury find the defendant not guilty -- sorry, we the jury find the defendant guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer as charged in the indictment. So say we all. Dated Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011. Signed, foreperson.
As to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, verdict as to count seven, we the jury find the defendant guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer as charged in the indictment. So say we all. Dated Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011. Signed, foreperson.
As to the charge of first degree murder, verdict as to count one, we the jury find the defendant not guilty.
As to the charge of aggravated child abuse, verdict as to count two, we the jury find the defendant not guilty.
As to the charge of aggravated manslaughter of a child, verdict as to count three, we the jury find the defendant not guilty.
As to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, verdict as to count four, we the jury find the defendant guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer.
As to the charge of...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Breaking news tonight. The verdict watch in the case of tot mom, Casey Anthony, on trial for the alleged murder of her 2-year-old little girl, Caylee, is over. In the last hours, the tot mom jury renders a verdict of not guilty.
We are here, camped outside the Orange County, Orlando, courthouse, bringing you the latest at the end of the courthouse day. In the last hours, a jury delivers a stunning blow to justice, a stunning blow to police and to prosecutors with a not guilty verdict on all major counts in the tot mom, Casey Anthony, murder trial.
The defense team promptly leaves the courthouse and goes to toast champagne in front of a window at a local bar. Let me just say, the devil is dancing tonight!
We are taking your calls live. I want to go straight out and unleash the lawyers. Joining us, Susan Moss, child advocate, New York, Raymond Giudice, defense attorney, Atlanta, Richard Herman, defense attorney, Las Vegas. And also joining us tonight, Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author.
Straight to you, Susan Moss. Weigh in.
SUSAN MOSS, CHILD ADVOCATE: We`ve been O.J.`d! This is the worst thing to happen to Florida since the hanging chads! How did this jury miss the 31 days that this child was not reported? How did they miss the duct tape over this child`s mouth, this child`s nose? You don`t wear duct tape to go swimming! And in the early morning, this little girl didn`t put duct tape on herself! How did they miss the chloroform searches, the chloroform evidence found in a car that only she had access to? How about the fact that she also searched breaking necks? How about the fact that there was the smell of death in this car?
I mean, come on! This jury ignored the scientific evidence! Apparently, they found the only 12 people who still think the world is flat!
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Back to the lawyers. To Raymond Giudice. Ray, I know you`re a defense attorney now. But put on an impartial hat. You`ve been watching this.
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: All right. I will. And I -- I will and I won`t, as we just heard, insult those jurors who sat in that courtroom. I love Sue, but you didn`t, Sue -- they sat there for 30 days and they heard what was missing, which was the linkage of the state -- and Richard was strong on this throughout the whole trial -- of this young lady and that child`s death. That jury heard the evidence...
GRACE: Weigh in, Richard.
GIUDICE: ... and I`m not going to sit here and insult them or second guess them.
GRACE: Yes, OK. Nobody asked you to second guess them. I asked you what you thought of the verdict. Let`s hear your thoughts, Richard Herman.
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I was amazed at the verdict. But I got to tell you, this jury absolutely repudiated the entire prosecution case! They came back with a flash verdict. They didn`t ask for any evidence, no readbacks, immediate -- rejected the forensics, rejected George Anthony, rejected everything that the prosecution put forward!
GRACE: We are taking your calls camped out here, outside the Orlando, Orange County, courthouse. In a stunning turn of events, veteran court watchers shocked, people milling around still outside the courthouse, wondering what happened, the jury refusing to come out and give a statement -- not one of them wanted to be seen, identified, heard or give a statement. They get on their bus and leave town, literally, back home to Pinellas County.
It is over! The jury renders a verdict today, a verdict of not guilty on all major counts. Joining me right now, Matt Zarrell. Matt, you`ve been on the case from the very beginning. What happened, Matt?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Nancy, I`m just stunned. But I think it has to do with the forensic evidence because we`ve talked about it at length that both the state and the defense presented hour after hour after hour of forensic evidence. But the one big thing they didn`t have is they didn`t have Casey Anthony`s DNA at the crime scene. They didn`t have anything directly related to her at the crime scene.
The other big factor is no cause of death. Dr. G. testified that she believed it was homicide. Obviously, the jury did not agree.
GRACE: They certainly didn`t. Jean, there are still people milling around behind me, all around the courthouse right now, Jean Casarez, saying, What happened? They still can`t seem to digest that a jury has completely exonerated tot mom, Casey Anthony.
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": You know, Nancy, I sat in that courtroom from the very beginning. Through jury selection, I sat in that courtroom. And here are my observations. There were very few notes taken in this case, a case that was very detailed. You always say, Nancy, the devil`s in the details. There were a lot of details in this case that were important to the prosecution.
So by a jury not taking many notes, they looked at a bigger picture and were presented with jury instructions of complicated elements to prove in the minds of these jurors. And I think that`s one reason we`ve got not guilty on very serious charges.
GRACE: Well, Jean, taking -- saying there were very little notes taken is putting it mildly. We all sat through the testimony, watching, and for almost the entire state`s case, jurors were sitting with their arms folded, just staring blankly in front of them. A couple of times, there was one juror that was pushing her pen around and around and around and around as the evidence was coming in. It was like they already had their minds made up.
We`ve heard from juror number 14, alternate number 2, who says that he believes George Anthony is guilty of something, that he believes George Anthony was hiding something, that a motive was never presented. Of course, the state doesn`t have to prove a motive. You don`t need to be able to crawl inside the mind of a defendant and figure out why they commit a murder.
You are seeing live now overhead shots of the Anthony home. And what`s to come next? To you, Dr. Bethany Marshall. What happens now? Does tot mom just move back home?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, here`s what I think is going to happen. She`s going to do what she always did. She`s going to find a new love obsession. Remember the tapes the prosecution played in court, where she begged her mother for Tony Lazzaro`s number, and then when her family tried to ask her about the baby, she said, You guys, a waste. The child was a waste. But you know what was not a waste to Casey Anthony? Her love life and her sex life.
And if past behavior is a predictor of future behavior, she is going to go out and recreate that, find a new love object, go out drinking, dancing, sexing (ph), and scarily enough, she might have another baby in order to hold onto the love of a man. And if she does that, Nancy, and the man is uninterested in the baby or she cannot incorporate the baby into her new love life, that new baby could also be thrown out like trash.
GRACE: You know, to you, Ellie Jostad. Today, when the verdict was read, a lot of eyes were on George and Cindy Anthony. They got up very quietly. There was no embrace, there was no hug, no smile. They got up with stonefaces and slipped out of the courtroom and left. No statement, nothing. They just left. What happened, Ellie?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. And what we`re hearing, that George and Cindy Anthony have actually been getting death threats. I think a lot of people -- it sounds like the jurors wanted to believe that they were somehow possibly to blame, that maybe George Anthony was somehow involved in this death.
I think -- you know, we heard from this alternate juror, and it sounds to me like the jurors felt that this pool accident that this dysfunctional family covered up -- they thought that that was the most plausible explanation of what happened to Caylee, despite the evidence the state put on.
GRACE: To Ryan Smith, correspondent with "Morning Express With Robin Meade" joining us. And of course, we now hear that one of the lead prosecutors is retiring after this trial, Ryan.
RYAN SMITH, HLN "MORNING EXPRESS" CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that`s right, Nancy, Jeff Ashton retiring after 30-some years of service. I got to tell you, Nancy, he`s one of the best in the business. He`s been through case after case after case, had a lot of success. I think this one almost tore his heart out. He put everything he had into this case, and now he`s stepping aside.
GRACE: We are taking your calls here, outside the Orlando, Orange County, courthouse, where the jury has rendered a verdict. Verdict watch is over. The case is closed. Tot mom, Casey Anthony, has been found not guilty of all substantial counts in her indictment, tot mom set likely to walk free on Thursday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never, ever criticize a jury. Theirs is the task of deciding what to believe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number one, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number two, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number three, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With no smoking gun and a tiny victim who was reduced by time and the elements, this was a "dry bones" case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number four, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number five, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number six, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The delay in recovering little Caylee`s remains worked to our considerable disadvantage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number seven, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number eight, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
PERRY: Juror number nine, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our mountain of evidence did not eliminate, in the jury`s view, every reasonable doubt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 10, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 11, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 12, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live in the Orlando, Orange County, courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony. The jury has rendered a verdict, a verdict of not guilty. Tot mom walks, not guilty on all major charges. The only convictions are on false information to police. On that, she looking at about a maximum of four years, and given the time that she has already done behind bars awaiting trial, she`s liable to walk free come Thursday.
We are taking your calls. Out to Sarah in Virginia. Hi, Sarah. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I just wanted to know exactly, where does Casey honestly think that she can go out into society and think that everything is going to be peachy keen, and that she`s not going to be ridiculed, whether it`s looks or verbal contact or even physical contact, for that matter, anywhere around the world, in fact, because people around the world have been so infatuated with this trial?
GRACE: Well, Sarah, sad to say, she`ll probably do just fine. I mean, look at Simpson. If he hadn`t gone and got arrested on yet another offense, he would still be living the high life right now in a luxury mansion, playing golf every day with a beautiful model, Nicole Brown look- alike living with him.
Here`s the deal, Sarah. She`s probably going to get a made-for-TV movie, a book deal for about a quarter million dollars, maybe more, because all the book industry is going to be vying for her book deal -- somebody else will write it, of course, but her name will be on the front -- maybe half a million, maybe up to a million dollars for a book deal, made-for-TV movie. Oh, yes, and then every time she does a big-time interview, she`ll get a licensing fee of up to, you know, $200,000 for pictures or video of Caylee that hasn`t been shared yet.
So she`s going to be on easy street. The only people that will be around her are people that accept her, just like the same people that hang around and hung around with O.J. Simpson. He had a whole group of whackies that hung around him and never questioned anything that ever happened. That`s how she`s going to live.
Let`s take a look at what happened. Who exactly was on that jury. Well, we know that two of them made it through the 11th grade. One did not want to be on the jury. One was arrested for DUI, another charged with paraphernalia of drug possession, one whose sister beat up their father with her boyfriend and did jail time.
You know, and I remember very distinctly -- to you Jean Casarez -- that the state wanted very much to strike some of these people, but the judge wouldn`t let them.
CASAREZ: That`s right, especially juror number four that said from the beginning she didn`t want to be on the jury and she didn`t like to judge anybody, especially when somebody else is talking about them. The prosecution tried two times to strike them, and the judge refused.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Right now, out to Vinnie Politan, standing by where Caylee`s remains discovered. Vinnie, we all watched the trial together. Weigh in.
VINNIE POLITAN, HOST, "HLN SPECIAL REPORT": You know, Nancy, as I`m here tonight -- you know, behind me is the site, and there`s so many people coming here tonight, and I -- coming here for different reasons. But what has really struck me are the families that are here and the -- the deep irony in that image that you have, mothers and fathers bringing their children here. But Casey`s not here with Caylee. Grandpa George isn`t here with Caylee. Neither is Cindy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: There are no winners in this case.
JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, FLORIDA CIRCUIT COURT: The jury has reached a verdict.
BAEZ: Caylee has passed on far, far too soon.
GRACE: You`re not going to get a fair verdict every single time you go to the jury.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the jury find the defendant not guilty...
Not guilty...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony was found not guilty of murder one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe they felt like they knew her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But the crowd disagrees strongly with that verdict.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t give any other explanation.
BAEZ: Casey did not murder Caylee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live at the Orange County courthouse. The verdict watch is over. The jury has rendered a verdict in the case of tot mom, Casey Anthony. That verdict, not guilty, stunning court watchers. The defense immediately goes a block up the street and pops cork on champagne, toasting their success, little or no thought given to the fact that Caylee is dead.
Out to Bill Sheaffer, former prosecutor, WFTV legal analyst. You know, Bill, I recall after murder trial after murder trial after murder trial, when I would ever get a conviction, people would go, Aren`t you happy? And I would always say, No, I`m not happy. I feel sick. I feel bad because the victim`s family is still heartbroken. There`s nothing more I can do for them. Everybody leaves with a broken heart, all right?
But the defense was out toasting champagne and making a big public display of it in a picture window of a bar so everybody could watch them. What`s that about?
BILL SHEAFFER, WFTV LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think that Joe Baez, by the way, showed some grace and dignity in his comments to the press. Obviously, I understand. This is a big win for the defense, especially in light, Nancy, that no one saw this coming, no one expected it. And by the way, I don`t think the defense expected it because of certain statements members of the defense team made about this case prior to joining the case and prior to this trial.
But I understand Jose Baez -- nothing succeeds like success. He has a reason to be happy. But you make a good point, which is, you know what? Take your celebration down the street, behind closed doors, because you know what? As you said, there are no winners because there is a child whose life will never come back.
GRACE: And to Dr. Bethany Marshall. Bethany, explain that display of popping a cork on a champagne bottle and everyone -- criminal lawyers actually jumping up and down and dancing around in the bar.
MARSHALL: Well, what`s amazing to me is that for the past three years, they have defended a young woman who potentially murdered her baby, and after the homicide, she danced on the stripper pole. Now they`re popping a cork on a bottle of champagne. It`s unfortunately a repetition of that behavior.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Florida versus Casey Marie Anthony, as to case number 2008 CF 15606-O, as to the charge of first degree murder, verdict as to count one, we the jury find the defendant not guilty, so say we all dated at Orlando, Orange County, Florida, on this 5th day of July, 2011.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Welcome back. Thank you for being with us. We are live outside the Orange County courthouse. The jury has spoken in a stunning twist, handing down a not guilty on all major counts against tot mom Casey Anthony.
Straight out to Matt Zarrell. I understand George and Cindy Anthony have made it to their home. What do you know?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Yes, Nancy. The "Orlando Sentinel" is reporting that George and Cindy Anthony just arrived at their home. They drove into the garage, shut the door behind them.
There are a few protesters outside. And one thing that`s interesting to note is George Anthony released a statement via his attorney earlier today. And one thing that`s important is he says that despite the baseless defense chosen by Casey Anthony the family believes that the jury made a fair decision based on the evidence presented.
So what does that mean exactly? They don`t say they agree with the decision, they say it was a fair decision.
GRACE: Yes, you know what, that`s going to be the oddest thing when tot mom goes back to this home, back to Caylee`s room. I wonder if it is still arranged the same way. The last I heard Cindy Anthony had not changed a thing in Caylee`s room. And then to have tot mom in the room, it`s like dancing on her grave.
We are taking your calls. I want to go to Jean Casarez.
Jean, what can you tell us about Jose Baez`s champagne party?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": They had a celebration. And I was in there. I could not bring a camera in. But, Nancy, they were watching the local coverage on all of the flat screen televisions. They were watching the verdict. They were watching the defense press conference.
And I think their feeling tonight is that they had zealously worked because of the belief in Casey Anthony`s innocence and justice was shown today. That is their focus. They also believe the discovery laws in the state of Florida are too broad, that it actually prejudices someone who should be innocent until proven guilty.
GRACE: OK, what was happening in the party? That`s my question.
CASAREZ: Talking, hugging, smiling, cheering, clapping, and they were exhausted.
GRACE: OK. Everybody, we`re showing you shots of the Baez champagne party held a couple of blocks down from the courthouse in front of a big picture window. And we are taking your calls live.
Joining me right now, Dr. Drew Pinsky, host of HLN`s "DR. DREW."
Dr. Drew, thank you for being with us. What`s your reaction to the verdict, Doctor?
DR. DREW PINSKY, M.D., HOST OF HLN`S "DR. DREW": I`m surprised like everybody else. I think I mentioned to you earlier today, that whenever I see defense teams giving displays of joy and celebration, particularly when there is so much at stake, when the issues are very questionable, I mean, to watch what we`re watching alongside of me here, I have a very intense feeling of disgust.
I remember the first time I ever saw a celebration like that was at the end of the O.J. Simpson trial and I was really stunned. I thought wow, this is really how attorneys behave, that`s professional demeanor?
I don`t know. I agree with you. I think this is not the time to celebrate. And I agree with Bethany Marshall, that to some extent this is dancing again on the heels of the death of a young child.
GRACE: You know, Dr. Pinsky, you reminded me of an incident I tried a triple homicide early on in my prosecutor career. And I was trying it alone. And there were, I can`t even remember right now how many defendants, maybe seven defendants. And each one had several lawyers and I was trying the case alone for the state.
And I left the courthouse late one night, during the trial, and I was dragging all my evidence, all my questions to everything on a roller board behind me to the parking deck and I passed this fancy Italian restaurant, I certainly couldn`t afford it. And I looked in as I walked by, very similar to this, and all the defense attorneys were around a big table. This is in the middle of the trial.
And they were all toasting, toasting wine and champagne in the middle of a triple homicide trial. I remember stopping and looking and I was overcome with some kind of emotion that this was just wrong, and I didn`t know what it was, it was too jumbled up in my own mind to make heads or tails of it, but I knew it was wrong.
And that`s how I feel right now, watching Jose Baez`s champagne party at the end of this murder trial, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Nancy, and I can see why this has such a powerful emotions for you personally. These are battles you have personally fought and you have been I imagine at times defeated by this process yourself very personally. So it hurts deeply when you see something that you believe to be so clearly true. And the truth doesn`t matter.
And I must tell you, you know, I`m a physician, I don`t know the legal system very well. I`m just trying to make sense of the behaviors for our HLN audience. But one thing I found from talking to a lot of defense attorneys is the truth doesn`t really matter to them.
They matter -- what matters to them is proven versus not proven. And evidently today, things were not proven. And one other piece I find very interesting in the statement that Mark Lippman issued for the Anthony family, in nowhere in that statement does the family protest the innocence of their daughter.
In fact, they carefully navigate around that which should tell us all something, that her own family believes that there is culpability here, just maybe not murder one.
GRACE: You know, that`s extremely insightful, Dr. Drew.
To Jane Velez-Mitchell, host of HLN`s "ISSUES". She`s been on the case for so long now.
Jane, I`m just really, at certain points since the verdict has come in, beyond words. Because we saw so much evidence that the jury may not know. And it seems to me like they had their minds made up going into it. The state put on a stellar case with all of this evidence. And it seems as if they sat there and twiddled their thumbs waiting until they could go in and acquit tot mom.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, HLN`S "ISSUES": Well, I think there`s a lot of reasons why they -- I think most people do things for a lot of different reasons, not just one reason.
First of all, I think on a subconscious level they may have felt sorry for Cindy and George. They saw Cindy up there weeping, falling, collapsing on the witness stand in her grief. They saw George sobbing. So they`ve lost their granddaughter, maybe they just didn`t have the heart to take their daughter, too. It could have been that on a subconscious level.
And I also think that the defense kind of, well, pulled the rug out from under the prosecution right in the opening statements by admitting there was no Zanny, there was no job, there was no kidnapping. She is a liar. But the prosecution had already planned this whole case where they were going to argue her lies for 31 days and they proceeded to do that.
So they were kind of operating on an old script, even though the defense changed the rules of the game at the start.
GRACE: Well, but Jane, we got to remember, Linda Kenny Baden, one of the former Anthony defense lawyers, came out and openly said there is no Zanny the nanny. She said that way back when. So, I mean, I knew they were going to say there is no Zanny the nanny way back when.
I think the state knew it, too. So long story short, I`ve often said, and I`ll say this to the lawyers -- Bill Sheaffer, Susan Moss, Ray Giudice, Richard Herman -- your case is won or lost when you put the 12 in the box, Sue Moss. When you strike that jury, when the voir dire is over, unless you really screw up, you`ve won or lost your case at jury selection.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: Absolutely. And in this case, all of her lies seemed to work. Apparently just claiming there`s a Zanny the nanny and it will save your fanny. I mean look at the ridiculousness they sold to this jury, that this child died in an early morning pool accident.
She wasn`t in pajamas. She wasn`t in a bathing suit. There is no way this happened at the pool.
GRACE: Absolutely not.
To Mike Brooks, HLN law enforcement analyst.
Mike, the story could not have been true. The story that they told the jury absolutely could not have been true based on the facts.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST; FMR. D.C. POLICE DET., FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: And all the gaps, Nancy. I mean from his opening statement, he talked about he threw George under the bus, Roy Kronk, Roy Kronk hid the remains, he went back, staged the area. It is all BS.
But what happened on June 16th? George saw them in the afternoon. He left. She was in that neighborhood for four hours. What happened on the 17th, 18th, those 31 days, unexplained.
GRACE: We`re live at the Orlando courthouse bringing you the latest. Not guilty, says the jury, for tot mom Casey Anthony. And what these prosecutors have to do, like the rest of us, is wake up tomorrow morning, shake the dust off, and pick up the next file and continue to seek justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAWSON LAMAR, CHIEF PROSECUTOR, ORANGE COUNTY: Child murders regretfully and terribly are not rare in America today. And those deaths are no less horrible and needless than that suffered by Caylee Anthony.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Florida versus Casey Marie Anthony, as to the charge of first degree murder, verdict as to count one, we the jury find the defendant not guilty.
JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: While we`re happy for Casey, there are no winners in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As to the charge of aggravated child abuse, verdict as to count two, we the jury find the defendant not guilty, so say we all, dated at Orlando.
CHENEY MASON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Those of you have indulged in media assassination for three years, bias and prejudice and incompetent talking heads.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charge of aggravated manslaughter of a child, verdict as to count three, we the jury find the defendant not guilty.
JEFF ASHTON, ASSISTANT PROSECUTOR: I`m stunned. That is the word. And I can`t think of another one. It is like I`ve been kicked in the gut. This case dishonored her memory.
CHIEF JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, CIRCUIT JUDGE, ORANGE COUNTY: Jury of your peers, having found you not guilty, I will adjudge you to be not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You may be seated. This court is in recess.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live here at the Orlando courthouse.
Out to Natisha Lance, our producer there, standing behind me at the courthouse here.
Hi, Natisha. So many people still wandering around the courthouse, almost as if they`re shell shocked. They don`t know what to say, Natisha.
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: You`re right, Nancy. There has been a crowd of people who are still here today. These are some of the same people who were at the courthouse earlier this afternoon when that verdict came down of Casey Anthony not guilty of murder one.
They were saying justice for Caylee, they don`t think it was the correct verdict that was rendered by this jury of 12. And they also were screaming your name today, Nancy. They said where`s Nancy Grace, where`s Nancy Grace? Again they do not agree with this decision that has made strongly, strongly disagree.
GRACE: Joining me right now, two special guests, Jesse Grund, this is tot mom Casey Anthony`s former fiance who at some point thought that he was Caylee`s biological father. Also with us, Richard Grund, this is Jesse`s father.
Gentlemen, thank you for being with us.
Jesse, what is your response to the verdict?
JESSE GRUND, CASEY ANTHONY`S FORMER FIANCE: I`m shocked and angry, Nancy. I`m shocked is the best choice of words. I feel like someone who was just in a war and doesn`t know what happened.
GRACE: I know how close that you had become to Caylee. As a matter of fact, the defense at one point was playing point the finger at you until they found what they thought to be a better target, that was George Anthony. I guess he fit into their scenario better than you did.
For a while there, you were looking like the scapegoat with Roy Kronk. So explain to me your anger and your feelings of being essentially numb.
J. GRUND: You know numb is a great choice of words, Nancy. I walk away from this case with just dissatisfaction, with every side. I`m angry tonight with the defense and their lack of tact by having a champagne toast right across the street from the courthouse. Even though they`re talking about the fact that nobody wins because Caylee is not here anymore.
This was never about a search for the truth. This was about you winning at all costs. That`s what this was about. And I`m angry. I am -- I am beside myself, seizing over that fact.
And I feel like I`ve sat on the sidelines the entire time, never getting a chance to speak. People spoke for me repeatedly. It`s just -- this has been a frustrating experience overall based on the fact that Caylee, I still love and miss dearly. She`s never coming back. And nobody sought out the truth in this.
This was all about winning. This was never about the truth.
GRACE: Jesse, what do you believe really happened?
J. GRUND: You know, Nancy, obviously you`re not first person to ask me that. I have friends and other members of the media who`ve asked me that same question. And it`s hard for me to wrap my mind about what happened because I have to sit there and think about Casey doing something terrible to Caylee. I have to visualize it. I have to put it together with my brain.
And that hurts. It leaves me empty inside when I try and do that. I have no idea. Obviously Casey was the last person to see Caylee alive. Obviously someone took Casey`s -- Caylee`s body and put it in the woods and obviously this family knows more than what they have said on the stand.
So at the end of the day, I just want justice for those responsible for Caylee not being with us and having her life cut so short.
GRACE: With us is Richard Grund.
Richard, you have become very familiar with the Anthony family. What have you observed?
RICHARD GRUND, FATHER OF CASEY ANTHONY`S FORMER FIANCE: I observed that to call this family dysfunctional is an understatement. I personally observed the mental and emotional abuse that Casey took from her mother.
In my opinion I believe the prosecution dropped the ball when they tried to present this as a loving family. They should have just come right out, aired it out and got beyond it. But they made a mistake by saying that this was just a normal loving family and it was the farthest thing from that.
GRACE: Well, Richard, hold on just a moment. You know Cindy Anthony has a grown daughter sitting there on the sofa eating chips, not working for years. Cindy and George are footing the bill for Caylee. They`re really acting as surrogate parents, not tot mom.
She`s not taking care of Caylee, Cindy is. And then they`ve got to deal with Casey Anthony stealing -- do you know how many checks over hundreds, hundreds -- not hundreds of dollars, hundreds of checks that tot mom would steal from her mother, they never prosecuted her for it.
Stealing out of her own grandfather`s retirement home fund -- he lives in a retirement home -- stealing that money. I mean what -- that`s just what we know of and more. I guess they were fed up with her.
R. GRUND: Well, but who -- how did Casey turn out this way? There are two norms that I go from, the bible says raise a child in the way that they should go and they won`t depart from it. Psychologists tell you that whatever you teach a child by age 7 is what they`re engrained with.
GRACE: Hey, you know what?
R. GRUND: So the question is how did Casey turn out this way?
GRACE: I appreciate that, Richard. I just can`t lay the blame for this child`s death on the grandparents.
R. GRUND: I`m not. I`m not.
GRACE: To Ray Giudice, Richard Herman -- what about it, Richard Herman?
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I can`t take it.
GRACE: I mean he`s not laying the blame for murder --
(CROSSTALK)
HERMAN: I`m saying the celebration, please. This was a death penalty case. Baez took the case three years out. He took the case. This was a jurisdiction with a 95 percent conviction rate, and they got acquittals. That was justice, and they`re entitled to celebrate. They should celebrate. That`s what they should be doing. And they are doing it. This was justice today. So poor prosecution.
GRACE: You know what? If you think -- if you think it`s OK in plain view to say nobody is the winner, everybody`s heart is broken, hey, open up the champagne, party on, Wayne. Yes, you`re wrong, Richard.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: State of Florida versus Casey Marie Anthony, as to case number 2008 CF 15606-O, as to the charge of first degree murder, verdict as to count one, we the jury find the defendant not guilty, so say we all dated at Orlando, Orange County, Florida, on this 5th day of July, 2011, signed foreperson.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. Thank you for being with us. We are live outside the Orlando courthouse bringing you the latest. The jury has spoken in the case against tot mom Casey Anthony. That verdict, not guilty. That`s right. Tot mom not guilty on all major counts.
We will be staying with us for another hour so please stay with us. And we will continue taking your calls live from here at the courthouse.
Back to Richard and Jesse Grund.
Richard, I heard you saying something just as I was going to the next guest. I`m not suggesting that you`re blaming the Anthony family for Caylee`s murder.
R. GRUND: No, absolutely not. I wanted to clarify that.
GRACE: I just can`t let George and Cindy take the blame for tot mom being what she is and doing what she -- I mean Lee turned out pretty well, I think. So obviously they did something right.
R. GRUND: Well, the point I was trying to make, no, I don`t exonerate Casey for anything she may or may not have done. The jury seems to have their opinion, I have mine.
But the point is this, is that if Casey was broken, if there was something wrong with her, she needed attention. This family has repeatedly talked about her issues. She had issues. Whatever those issues were should have been dealt with because it endangered Caylee.
GRACE: Well put.
Jesse Grund, now that you`ve seen all of the evidence, what`s your opinion as to guilt or innocence?
J. GRUND: I think I`ve touched on that before. The fact of the matter is, is that there is a plethora of evidence that says that Casey was the last person to see her alive. And that Caylee`s body was disposed of in the woods.
I think the problem is, the prosecution never filled in the gap between those two things and they put out so much evidence.
GRACE: Jesse, when you look back --
J. GRUND: They put a parade of people out there.
GRACE: When you look back and realized how close you were, intimate you were, with tot mom Casey Anthony, how does that make you feel? Creepy? Schemed out? Can you think about it? Do you dare to think about it? That you were so close to someone who could do such a thing?
J. GRUND: You know, Nancy, I treat the Casey that I was engaged to like she was dead. She doesn`t exist anymore. This person who was running around, laughing in the courtroom where her murder trial is going on, has done everything she`s done, I don`t know her. So I try not to think about it as much as possible.
GRACE: We are staying with the story into the next hour live here at the Orange County courthouse. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "The State of Florida Versus Casey Marie Anthony, as to case number 2008DF15606-0, as to the charge of first-degree murder, verdict as to count one, we, the jury, find the defendant not guilty, so say we all, dated at Orlando, Orange County, Florida, on this 5th day of July, 2001," signed "Foreperson."
"As to the charge of aggravated child abuse, verdict as to count two, we, the jury, find the defendant not guilty, so say we all, dated at Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this fifth day of July, 2011." Signed, "Foreperson."
"As to the charge of aggravated manslaughter of a child, verdict as to count three, we, the jury, find the defendant not guilty, so say we all, dated at Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011." Signed, "Foreperson."
"As to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, verdict as to count four, we, the jury, find the defendant guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer as charged in the indictment, so say we all, dated Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011." Signed, "Foreperson."
"As to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, verdict as to count five, we, the jury, find the defendant guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, as charged in the indictment, so say we all, dated, Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011." Signed, "Foreperson."
"As to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, verdict as to count six, we, the jury, find the defendant guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer as charged in the indictment, so say we all, dated Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011." Signed, "Foreperson."
"As to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, the verdict as to count seven, we, the jury, find the defendant guilty as providing false information to the law enforcement officer as charged in the indictment, so say we all, dated Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011." Signed, "Foreperson."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: The jury has spoken. There is no appeal. This is a final decision.
The verdict is in. The verdict watch is over. "Tot Mom" not guilty on all major charges.
We are live and taking your calls here at the Orlando courthouse.
Straight out to Vinnie Politan. Vinnie is joining us there at the remains site near Suburban Drive, not far from where "Tot Mom" will soon be living again.
Vinnie, what`s happening there?
VINNIE POLITAN, HOST, "SPECIAL REPORT": It`s amazing, Nancy, a number of people who have come here tonight. And there are lines of cars. There are families, there are children.
All these folks coming here because of what happened today and because of what happened three years ago. And for the most part, Nancy, we hear three words from these people, three words that they utter, the same thing Natisha Lance is hearing behind the courthouse: "Justice for Caylee."
GRACE: You know, Vinnie, it`s so eerie being there where Caylee was thrown away like trash.
Liz, let me see Vinnie in full.
Vinnie Politan, joining us not far at all from where Caylee`s body was found.
Vinnie, the feeling that so many people have now is a complete sense of injustice. And it`s very hard to deal with that, because that`s what we have to hold on to, is our system. And when our system fails, it`s very hard to take in.
POLITAN: Nancy, you know what I think folks are feeling when they come here? Because people that come to the site realize what it is and realize where Caylee ended up. And we know it`s a quarter of a mile from the house, but it`s a swamp. Jeff Ashton and Linda Drane Burdick, inside that courtroom, tried to paint that picture for this jury.
I think if this jury had come out here, Nancy, if this jury had seen what we have seen, and understand that it`s not like someone dug a grave and gave a proper burial to this little girl, but took those remains and just tossed them out like all the trash and garbage that you see when you walk through this wooded area behind me, the people that come here realize that. And they realize that there is no justice until someone is accountable for how this girl was treated, for how this girl is trying to rest in peace tonight, but can`t because whoever had her -- and obviously most people here believe it was Casey Anthony -- took her and just tossed her away.
And we heard how the Anthony family would get rid of pets. They would dig, and there would be a ceremony. None of that here, Nancy.
GRACE: You know what? You`re right. And apparently, that was all lost on the jurors, Vinnie.
To Jean Casarez.
You know, Jean, Vinnie just mentioned something very poignant to me, the swampy land, the swamp where Caylee`s body was thrown away like trash.
Liz, I`d like to see some pictures of Caylee, please.
The other day I was taking Lucy and John David to -- Lucy was going to ballet and John David and I were going along to watch. And we had to step across this little walkway, and it was muddy.
And they didn`t feel like putting their shoes on yet. So I carried one across the mud, then I went back and got the other one and carried them across, Jean.
I didn`t want their little feet to touch a rock or to get all muddy and messed up. And I was thinking about throwing Caylee`s body out there in that swamp. And as Tropical Storm Fay came, the water rose and rose and rose. And her little body was immersed in water for all that time until it decomposed, Jean.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": You know, Nancy, when you say that, it reminds me of the time that we had been here in Orlando, because this is the time three years ago that Caylee`s body was there. And the torrential rains that we have had day after day after day while we are here are reminiscent of the time period three years ago.
The amount of water was immense. And Nancy, that jury saw the skeletal remains of Caylee when they were found, the skull when it was found. And they still returned that not guilty verdict, believing there was reasonable doubt that Caylee Anthony was transported in that trunk of the car by Casey Anthony to that location.
GRACE: Joining me right now is a special guest, Kevin Beary, the former sheriff in this jurisdiction.
Sheriff, thank you for being with us.
KEVIN BEARY, RETIRED ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF: Thank you, Nancy.
GRACE: I know that you are joining us tonight from Kabul. And I now understand that the news has reached you about the not guilty verdict in the "Tot Mom," Casey Anthony, trial. And I wanted to hear your thoughts.
You were on this case from the very beginning. What do you think, Sheriff?
BEARY: Well, I can tell you I was a bit surprised when I saw the verdict read. I know that Casey lied several times to law enforcement officers. I saw where we`ve got the guilty convictions there.
I don`t think justice was served, but I have to believe in the system because I took an oath of office 36 years ago to uphold that system of justice. So the jury has spoken.
But I will tell you this -- I will never forget the rainy day when that body was recovered and our deputies and Florida Department of Law Enforcement, the FBI were all there. And the CSI folks were on their hands and knees finding little skeletal remains of Caylee. That`s what people need to remember.
And I`m still very, very proud of the investigation that all the different agencies did on this, and the thousands of volunteers and community support personnel that came out to try to locate Caylee, and all the different places where we were doing the -- where we thought the case might take us. So, still very proud of all that.
The verdict, a definite surprise. But those things can happen when you put it before a jury. So I understand that, but not much else you can say, Nancy.
You know, I thought my detectives did an excellent job. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement ran down the lead lines. And then we turned a lot of the stuff over forensically to FBI and the Body Farm at the University of Tennessee.
And I also knew that this particular case was going to be the next step of where forensic science was going to take us. And I remember the first DNA case in Orlando, Florida, in 1986, and now look at the testimony about the air swabs and things like that in the back of a car.
Let`s just say that I`m still surprised, and I will tell you that our community is probably very much still hurting today because of that verdict.
GRACE: You know, everyone with me, former sheriff Kevin Beary, who was in charge of this case when it first happened, he and his team were there when Caylee`s body was found. Her tiny skeleton, her skull. Her skull, we now know, was full of dirt and sediment left over from Tropical Storm Fay.
You know, Sheriff, I know you`re joining us all the way from Kabul tonight. You`re serving our country. This has got to cause a hurt. This has got to hurt your heart.
You guys believed so much in this case. You wanted so much to get a verdict that speaks the truth.
BEARY: Well, Nancy, as I said, it does. It hurts the heart. Not only my heart.
I feel for -- I`ve gotten several messages from the investigators and deputies that worked the case. They`re hurting. And I know the community is hurting.
And I was listening to some of the program prior to me getting on the phone with you. And, you know, the people are out there at the site where the body was found. And I think what happens when you have a verdict like this, that hurt continues not only as a community, not only in law enforcement, but in cases -- especially cases involving children go straight to the heart.
And maybe the best way I can put it today is I think a dagger has been put into the heart. And I still feel for the community, and one day let`s hope that justice can be served for the death of Caylee. I think that`s what we have to think about in the future.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: While we`re happy for Casey, there are no winners in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They call this justice? They say the American flag flies today? It does not. It does anything but fly today.
BAEZ: Casey did not murder Caylee. It`s that simple.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not right. I can`t even talk. I`m appalled by this.
BAEZ: And today our system of justice has not dishonored her memory by a false conviction.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do not believe any justice whatsoever was done for poor little Caylee. I`m an RN, and I just feel like the whole thing is bogus.
BAEZ: The best feeling that I have today is that I know I can go home and my daughter will ask me, "What did you do today?" And I can say, "I saved a life."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it`s kind of the same with the O.J. Simpson case. The same situation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: We are live at the Orlando courthouse bringing you the latest.
The verdict is in. The jury has spoken. Not guilty on all substantial counts. "Tot Mom" is set to walk free as early as Thursday.
We are taking your calls live. But I want to go now to Eleanor Odom, senior attorney with the National District Attorney`s Association.
Death penalty qualified. Eleanor, what happened?
ELEANOR ODOM, SR. ATTORNEY, NATIONAL DISTRICT ATTORNEY`S ASSOCIATION: Well, Nancy, I was thinking about the jury tonight, and I`m wondering -- because they were not from Orlando. They are from another county. Maybe they weren`t as invested in the community.
And if you don`t have jurors as invested in that community, then it`s easier to find reasonable doubt, or for them to find the defendant not guilty. So that`s one thing that occurred to me. You know, we`ll never know unless those jurors talk exactly what they were thinking when they came up with their decision, and to me it`s troubling.
GRACE: Oh, El, they aren`t talking right now. They wouldn`t even be seen. They would not come out and give a statement. They would not answer any questions.
They literally got on a bus and left town. They said not guilty and left. They wouldn`t look at anybody in the courtroom. They wouldn`t meet anybody`s eyes. They just left.
And listen to this. This is what one alternate juror says, that he believes it was a horrific accident.
There was no evidence to that at all.
ODOM: Oh, I know.
GRACE: He says he thought George Anthony was lying.
ODOM: And if the alternate said that --
GRACE: About what? I think this is crazy.
ODOM: -- who knows what the rest of them thought? Oh, I know. And we won`t know. I hope they`ll talk.
GRACE: Which is not a good sign for nobody to take notes. Nobody to take notes.
Hey, queue that up for me again, Liz.
There you see the defense attorneys jumping up and down dancing, having a Baez champagne party about a block away from the courthouse in front of is a big picture window.
Eleanor, as I recall, when you and I shared a wall in the local prosecutor`s office for many, many, many years, I don`t recall ever having a champagne party if we --
(CROSSTALK)
ODOM: No, Nancy. Can you believe it?
GRACE: Because it always dealt with -- I mean, there`s never a good scenario in a felony trial. Right?
ODOM: No.
GRACE: Somebody`s always dead and they`re raped. Child molestation and arson.
To celebrate what?
ODOM: Oh, I know. They`re having a champagne jamboree, and justice for little Caylee has gone denied. I mean, there is nobody who is standing up now who is found guilty of murdering Caylee. And let`s not forget, we still have a murdered child here, Nancy.
GRACE: To Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist.
A lot of people are having a hard time dealing with this verdict. Behind me there`s got to be a couple of hundred people still here at this hour of the night. You know, it`s approaching 10:00 at night and they`re still out here, upset, milling around, while the defense is down the block having a champagne party.
Help me out, Patricia.
DR. PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I`m upset about it too, Nancy. Casey Jordan from "In Session" said something this afternoon that hit it. She said, "We`ve never seen anything like Casey Anthony before," her antics, all of her behavior. That is because she is a psychopath. And our picture of a psychopath is Ted Bundy, not a pretty, little, sweet girl whose defense attorneys portray her as a victim. She is a snake in human clothing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: A jury has determined there was no crime.
BAEZ: It`s -- it really is --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She can write a book.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They call this justice?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They say justice does work, and that`s what it is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just a crying shame. An absolute crying shame, this is.
BAEZ: I really do have mixed feelings over the whole situation.
GRACE: She can have a movie. She can pretty much make as much money as possible.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was phony forensic science here. They never crossed their I`s and dotted their Ts. And I think they overreached.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She will.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Overreached? Overreached? The child`s body is found in a swamp with Duct tape on her face. Chloroform in "Tot Mom`s" trunk and at the crime scene and on the home computer.
Who in the hay thinks the prosecution overreached?
This, as we learned following on the heels of the not guilty verdict in the "Tot Mom" case, prosecutor Ashton, retiring. He is throwing in the towel. And can you blame him?
This, after a stellar career as an upright prosecutor, a straight arrow. And the look on his face today, it was like he had been punched in the stomach.
To Caryn Stark, psychologist.
Caryn, he`s retiring.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Nancy, he worked so hard. When you take a look at the outrage of the people involved, how upset we all are, how upset people writing to me are, he tried. They really did, I think, present a terrific case. And I don`t think that it was his fault.
I think it`s all about sympathy for a mother, that people are looking at her -- this is what makes a psychopath be so dangerous, is that she could come across as an innocent-looking young mother and get then get all this sympathy.
GRACE: And really suck people into her vortex.
You know, the big question to me, though, Peter Odom, is, who did do it? If "Tot Mom" didn`t do it, who did murder little Caylee?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY; Nancy, I mean, at this point, how can you even ask that question? That`s going to be up to the police to try and reinvestigate it, but --
GRACE: No, I`m asking you.
P. ODOM: -- they`re not going to do that because they`ve been so invested in Casey Anthony --
GRACE: No, I`m asking you, Peter.
P. ODOM: -- they`re not going to look elsewhere.
GRACE: No, I`m asking you.
P. ODOM: Nancy, how dare anybody question this verdict? The jury has spoken.
GRACE: OK. So you`re not going to answer the question.
P. ODOM: This is justice.
GRACE: All right. I`ll just go to another guest, and maybe they can try to answer it. But thanks, Peter Odom.
To Bill Sheaffer --
P. ODOM: Nancy, it`s impossible to prove.
GRACE: -- if she didn`t do it, who did it?
SHEAFFER: Have you come to me, Nancy? I couldn`t hear you.
GRACE: Bill Sheaffer, if she didn`t do it, who did do it?
SHEAFFER: Nancy, the evidence clearly showed that Casey Anthony is guilty. The jury didn`t come back and say, "We find her innocent." They just came back and said this case wasn`t proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: While we`re happy for Casey, there are no winners in this case. Caylee has passed on far, far too soon. And what my driving force has been for the last three years has been always to make sure that there has been justice for Caylee and Casey.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Yes, there is defense attorney, Jose Baez, claiming there are no winners here in this tragic case. Pop the champagne cork (ph)! Woo- hoo! Yes. Party on. The attorneys literally jumping up and down after the verdict, partying about a block from the courthouse there behind me, letting the champagne flow, high fiving each other, watching themselves on TV. This after Baez just says it`s tragic. No winners.
Meanwhile a block away, party on, gang. And now, tot mom finally has the beautiful life that she envisioned. She`s free. The jury has rendered a not guilty verdict on all major counts. She will walk free as early as this Thursday. And she`s set up to make very likely over a million dollars off the murder of her two-year-old daughter, Caylee Anthony.
To Patricia Saunders, Dr. Saunders, she will do a book deal. She will do a made for TV movie. She will sell photos of Caylee, and she will likely become a millionaire. Help me out, Dr. Saunders.
PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I think Bethany said it earlier too. The only thing that`s going to make her happy is latching on to some fantasy man who will eventually not be good enough for her. This is an empty pit that can never be filled. That`s one consolation in thinking about justice, emotional justice. This woman will never be satisfied.
GRACE: Joining me right now, Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. Marc, I`ve been hoping to see you all day. After being a veteran of the justice system for so long, I want to hear your thoughts on the verdict.
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT & FOUNDER OF KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, first of all, this is a day I never thought I would see. And although, she was found not guilty in a criminal court, I think it`s obvious that she`s been found very guilty in the court of public opinion. Now, I believe that Casey Anthony crossed over a line when she murdered her own angel, and there`s no doubt in my mind that she committed that crime.
So, what that means is that now, there`s a dangerous psychopathic killer on the loose. And this woman, there`s no doubt in my mind, that she will strike again. I mean, we`ve seen the incredible mood swings. How she can turn on her parents on a dime. And now that she`s back into society or very soon will be back into society, it`s only a matter of time before that confluence of circumstances creates another very toxic mix.
And hopefully, this time, she won`t get out of it. Certainly, there`s no justice for Caylee, but I think that at some point in time, although, there will probably be other victims, there will be justice for Casey.
GRACE: To Jane Velez-Mitchell joining us tonight also here at the courthouse. Jane, you came into the case with an open mind, and you ended up believing that there would be a murder one conviction. What do you make of it all, Jane?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST OF HLN`S "ISSUE WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL": Well, I don`t think the story is over yet. Just like O.J. Simpson was acquitted, and now, he is back behind bars, I think it`s very likely that this young woman is going to go out there and take the person she is with her. We know even without these charges of which she was acquitted, she is a thief. She stole from her family. She was convicted of check fraud. Everywhere she goes she`s going to be shunned.
She`s going to have to hang out with a group of people who may take her down that same road. She could very likely end up in jail. And I don`t think she`s going to make a big book or movie deal. Remember what happened to those who pushed if I did it, it backfired. And I think that now, it`s to politically incorrect to give huge sums of money to people that the general public perceives of as having gotten away with murder.
So, I don`t think that`s going to happen to her because I think that the backlash would be too much for any corporation to bear. So, I don`t think it`s all going to be a bed of roses for this young lady.
GRACE: To Carolyn Robbins Manley, jury consultant, joining us out of Miami. Carolyn, we are now hearing so much about the jurors. Several of them having been arrested for DUI, drug paraphernalia, also one of the jurors claiming that this is all a bad accident, and they didn`t know how to deal with it. There`s no evidence to support that.
Also saying that George Anthony lied, that he was covering something up. How do you tell when you`ve got jurors that are going to go back in the jury room and just make things up?
CAROLYN ROBBINS MANLEY, JURY CONSULTANT: Well, you don`t know that they`re going to make things up, but when you asked me a couple of weeks ago when they were doing jury selection what did I think of some of these jurors? And we had some clues and some insight into the fact that these jurors, one said, she wasn`t very comfortable seeing (ph) in judgment of anybody. And we know we had some other jurors who had gone through the legal system one way or the other.
So, you knew that they were going to have these starting not necessarily from dead center, if you will. That they were going to have some predisposition to maybe not trusting law enforcement. But are they going to make things up? Well, everybody comes in with their own life experience. That`s just the way it works. But the question is, as a group, as 12, are you going to be unanimous? I would want to know if this was originally a unanimous verdict.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Bill Sheaffer, former prosecutor, WFTV legal analyst, Eleanor Odom, senior attorney, National District Attorney`s Association, death penalty qualified, Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta, Raymond Giudice, defense attorney, Atlanta. Bill Sheaffer, how is this hitting the community?
BILL SHEAFFER, FORMER PROSECUTOR, WFTV LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I`m filled with incredible sadness. I`ve spent most of my 63 years here in Orlando as a prosecutor and a defense attorney, and I can tell you, this community has filled with a sense of sadness. But one thing I want to point out. The prosecution and the investigators should hold their heads high. They did a good job.
GRACE: To Eleanor Odom, the sense of unrest, the sense of injustice, it doesn`t just go away. When you have ever gotten a not guilty in a case that you prosecuted, how long does it take you to grapple with that?
ELEANOR ODOM, SENIOR ATTORNEY: Nancy, I can remember every not guilty verdict I`ve ever heard from a jury, and it just kills you, especially in the type of crimes are prosecute against women and children. And it just kills you to hear the jury say that. However, you go on, because as prosecutors, we have hundreds of more cases following it, and we have to do the best for each one of our victims. And we have to pick up and go on.
GRACE: You know, to Raymond Giudice, I mean, taking a listen to one of the alternates as had to say, it sounds like he was in a completely different courtroom than I was in listening to the evidence, Ray.
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I went along for the last month or two and thought the prosecution, as Bill just said, had done a pretty nice job. But I will say, and we talked about overreaching, I think, if they made any mistake, Nancy, it was getting unfocused from their major pieces of evidence and wasting a lot of time chasing down rabbit holes and red herrings that the defense said, which in some regards, may have lent credibility.
Jurors saying, wait a second, the prosecutors are spending all this time trying to fight Mr. Baez`s arguments. Maybe, there`s something to it. That`s the only thing I can think in retrospect, Nancy.
GRACE: What about it, Peter Odom?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, there was always a cast of reasonable doubt set over this case when the state had no way of proving exactly how the child was killed, what day the child was killed, when the child was buried. I mean, people might disagree with this verdict, but certainly, people can`t say they`re surprised at it when there was always that link that just was never made by the prosecution. And I agree with Ray. The state spent a lot of time trying to prove what a bad person Casey Anthony was rather than how guilty she was.
GRACE: Joining us right now is tot mom, Casey Anthony`s aunt, Pam Plesea. Pam, what is your response to the jury verdict of not guilty?
VOICE OF PAM PLESEA, CASEY ANTHONY`S AUNT: Nancy, I`m appalled. And now, I`m angry. And I say shame on this jury. They`re either not too bright or just plain lazy.
GRACE: You know, Pam, they hardly took any notes at all, and they came in this warning dressed up for the verdict, wearing suit for the first time in a two-month process, knowing this morning, when they came in, they were going to render this verdict, Pam.
PLESEA: That`s very much the way I feel. I`m absolutely shocked.
GRACE: Do you believe that George and Cindy Anthony are going to take tot mom back into the home?
PLESEA: I have stopped trying to read what this family is going to do. I don`t know -- I`m not in that position. But I say shame on anyone at this point who does anything to facilitate her need and shame on anyone who will contribute to her beautiful life by giving her money for any of these stories. I hope that`s something we don`t have to see.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caylee, give him a kiss.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, ORANGE COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, have you reached the verdict? Will the defendant rise along with counsel?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First-degree murder, not guilty. Aggravated child abuse, not guilty. Aggravated manslaughter of a child, not guilty. Providing false information to a law enforcement officer, guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I agree with their verdict whole heartedly. The produced zero evidence of how Caylee died. No one could tell us that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m very happy for Casey. I`m excited for her. And I want her to be able to breathe and grow and somehow get her life back together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Marie Anthony.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We really live at the Orange County courthouse. Not guilty says a jury in the tot mom, Casey Anthony case. We are taking your calls. Michelle in New Hampshire. Hi, Michelle. What`s your question?
MICHELLE, NEW HAMPSHIRE: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call.
GRACE: Yes.
MICHELLE: One quick statement first. I just want to apologize for Mr. Mason`s comment today. Because we all know who he was talking about. You have fought for Caylee for the last three years so hard, and I want to thank you for that. But I`m very insulted by -- I can`t even talk right now. By what he said that they didn`t dishonor Caylee`s memory today by the judgment. They did when they crossed that street and started opening up a bottle of champagne and drinking when there`s a two-and-a-half-year- old baby just forgotten about.
GRACE: You know, Michelle in New Hampshire, number one thank you. And number two, I agree. You`re seeing inside the Jose Baez champagne party as the defense attorneys dance and drink and order rounds and rounds of champagne watching themselves on TV. You know, Jean Casarez, that`s highly, highly unusual. And you hear Baez in one breath saying there are no winners today and putting on a mournful face. One block away, he`s partying like a rock star.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": You know, Nancy, I can`t get into their minds and figure out what they did and why they did. I was there as a correspondent to look at it and report on it the way it was, the way it came down. I can tell you, though, I sat in that trial, and I know the evidence inside and out.
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad. Ellie, (inaudible) will be Thursday morning, but the reality is, she`s probably going to walk on time served.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes. It`s very possible, Nancy. She was found guilty on four counts of providing false information for law enforcement officers. Those are all first-degree misdemeanors. They carry less than a year, just under a year. We know she`s been in jail. It`s possible if she sentenced concurrently, if she served (ph) those sentences concurrently, she could get out on Thursday.
GRACE: Joining us from Kabul, former sheriff Kevin Beary. He launched the investigation. He and his team found Caylee`s remains. Sheriff, again, thank you for being with us. I know you`re far, far away tonight. Uh-oh we lost our connection to the sheriff. I will go to Mike Brooks who`s our law enforcement representative.
Mike, how gut wrenching is it to the police, to the sheriffs, not only lose this, and then, see videos of the defense dancing wildly, having a champagne party a block away from the courthouse?
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I tell you what. That is - - I think it`s kind of bush league for them to do that, Nancy. And I guarantee it. (INAUDIBLE) Sergeant Allen and the other investigators and the FBI, seven different law folks (ph) and agencies that worked on this, they put their heart and soul in this case for three years plus, Nancy.
I can tell you they`re devastated tonight, because they did a good job. They have nothing to be ashamed about. It`s the jurors. I know it`s the best system we got, Nancy, but it looks like the jurors drank the Casey Kool-Aid.
GRACE: To Wendy in Tennessee. Hi, Wendy. What`s your question?
WENDY, TENNESSEE: Hi. Thanks for taking my call, Nancy.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am.
WENDY: I`m outraged with this verdict. I think she was guilty all along, but it just so happened, if it was an accident like they said and she drowned in the pool, and she helped cover it up, can they go back and get her on covering up a crime or was that part of the child neglect charge that she had?
GRACE: They cannot retry her on any criminal aspect of this case. It is over. And, they also practically speaking couldn`t go back in and prosecute on an accidental drowning because they have refuted that. They have refuted that publicly so that would come back to haunt them in the end if they tried to go forward.
To Caryn Stark, psychologist. Caryn, a lot of people are wondering, what`s going to become of tot mom now? What will the scenario be when she moves back in with George and Cindy Anthony? Lee was noticeably absent when that verdict was read in court today. He was a no show. But when they`re all back in there and they`re looking at Caylee`s room, how`s that going to go down? When they pass Caylee`s ashes in an urn, how does that work, Caryn Stark?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: In this particular family, I hate to say it, Nancy, but I feel like they will welcome her back and they will all work it out because they`re so dysfunctional. I also think it`s important to take a look at the fact that she`s a pathological liar. She was accused of lying and found guilty and something will happen again. She will do something. They can`t cover that up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE ANTHONY, CAYLEE ANTHONY`S GRANDFATHER: Caylee started calling me Joe Joe. She could put a lot of words together. She could turn on a VCR. Put her own DVDs in. Oh, my gosh, she knew to go inside our pantry area and get the plastic jar of peanut butter and get small spoon and ask if you`d open it up so she could have a spoonful of peanut better. People would sing a song that they want (ph), she could sing the next time with you. She was really something.
CINDY ANTHONY, CAYLEE ANTHONY`S GRANDMOTHER: My immediate reaction was of total peace and joy. I knew that our lives would be blessed, but I never realized just how blessed until the day that Caylee Marie was born. My favorite time when she would come in on Sunday morning and wake me up and her face would be right in my face. She`ll be right there.
GEORGE ANTHONY: There`s a special food that my granddaughter hate (ph) every single time that we had her in front of her were green beans. Green beans. Hug her. Smell her hair. Smell the sweet sweat when she came in from outside.
CINDY ANTHONY Caylee is watching over all of us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Corporal Joseph Blanco, 25, Bloomington, California, (INAUDIBLE), awarded bronze star purple heart and artist and black-belt, love history, leave behind his parents, Jose and Stepharina (ph), sisters, Jamie and Candy, brother, Christopher. Joseph Blanco, American hero.
Tonight, a verdict has been rendered in the case of tot mom. Not guilty. The devil is dancing tonight, but I believe that since June 16, 2008, there`s a little angel in heaven named Caylee. And God bless her. I hope she knows nothing of our goings-on here at the Orlando courthouse. I hope that Little Caylee somewhere is happy tonight.
Thank you for being with us throughout the trial. I`ll see you tomorrow night, eight o`clock sharp eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
