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Nancy Grace
Casey Anthony Likely to Serve no More Time on Lying Convictions
Aired July 06, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. The verdict watch in the case of tot mom, Casey Anthony, is over. The tot mom jury delivers a stunning blow to justice with a not guilty on all major counts. Bombshell tonight. With tot mom set to actually walk free to head to a secret location in just hours, juror number 3, who served on the jury and voted not guilty, now says she`s sick over the verdict and that tot mom`s not innocent.
As tot mom considers changing her name, she vows to have more children? At this hour, still no contact with either parent, George or Cindy Anthony, between tot mom since the not guilty was handed down. And the first payday for tot mom rolls in from Vivid Entertainment -- porn! They want tot mom to make a movie to, quote, "help her transition into her new life."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Caylee run to her mother? Of course she did! Every baby loves their mother.
What amazing parent acts with complete indifference to the accidental death of their child?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First degree murder, not guilty. Aggravated child abuse, not guilty. Aggravated manslaughter of a child, not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No person would ever make the accidental death of a child look like murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was probably a horrific accident. Unfortunately, it did snowball and got away from them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People don`t make accidents look like murder!
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I`ll take this as far as I need to to prove my innocence.
JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, FLORIDA CIRCUIT COURT: I will adjudge you to be not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She could walk out of jail a free woman in a matter of hours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. When tot mom set to walk free, heading for a secret location in just hours, juror number 3, who voted not guilty, now says she`s sick over the verdict and that tot mom`s not innocent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Countdown to sentencing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Very happy for Casey. I`m ecstatic for her and...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There they were, starting to pour their champagne, getting their glasses up to celebrate.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I had a dream not too long ago that I was pregnant. It was like having Cays all over again."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caylee`s remains were found.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the mate of the bag that served as Caylee`s coffin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I`ve thought about adopting, which even sounds weird to me saying it. But there are so many children that deserve to be loved."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any way you slice it, any way you put it together, Casey Anthony is guilty of murder in the first degree.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... not guilty...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... not guilty...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... not guilty.
JEFF ASHTON, CASEY ANTHONY PROSECUTOR: I wouldn`t have been involved in this case if I didn`t think that she did it. If the issue was whether she was responsible at all for it, I don`t really think it would have made a difference. I mean, you never know, but the facts that we had the way we looked at them, this was a first degree murder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are camped out here outside the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom. A not guilty handed down on all major counts, and tot mom set to walk free in just hours.
Straight out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session," joining us here at the courthouse. Jean, the reality is, she`s done about 996 days behind bars. On the remaining counts the jury found her not (SIC) guilty on, false information to police -- that`s four counts -- the sentence is about a year, 12 months, on each count -- up to. Well, she`s already done nearly a thousand days behind bars. She`s going to walk free!
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, that is the big question right now. We know the defense is going to argue that, Nancy. Now, let`s remember she pleaded guilty to 13 felony fraud counts in regard to all those checks that she wrote at Target and Wynn Dixie supermarket. She was sentenced last January to that, sentenced to time served. That leaves a year-and-a-half now of time served that can be going toward this sentence.
GRACE: And we also learn that now one of the jurors is saying that she is, quote, "sick" over the verdict, and that tot mom is not innocent.
Joining us right now in an exclusive interview is Judge Stan Strickland. This is the first tot mom, Casey Anthony, judge. He recused himself from the case early on, with a stellar reputation in Florida and beyond. We are proud to have Judge Stan Strickland with us. Judge, thank you for being with us.
JUDGE STAN STRICKLAND, FMR. CASEY ANTHONY JUDGE: Good evening.
GRACE: Judge, it has been madness and mayhem here at the courthouse. Are you glad you opted out early on?
STRICKLAND: I am. It wasn`t about me. When I saw that this was going to become something that would lead them to criticize every future decision that I made, I thought, you know, I don`t own this case. We`ve got 70 other good judges here in the courthouse. Let`s give it to somebody else. So I got out. And I`m just kind of shocked at the result. And I really don`t know what to say beyond that.
GRACE: Judge, refresh everyone`s recollection as to why you felt you needed to recuse yourself off the tot mom case.
STRICKLAND: Well, this was when Mr. Mason first got into the case. And he -- shortly after he got in, I ruled against him a couple of times. And I think the last motion that I ruled on was the motion where they wanted to see the illegal tape made by Mr. Jordan. Linda Drane Burdick objected. I upheld her objection. And I said, You can`t have the tape. You`ve got the transcript anyway.
Well, the next time we got together, he approached the bench and said, We may have a recusal motion. Can we talk in private? And I said, No, we can`t talk in private. If you`ve got a recusal motion, file it. And so about a week later, he did.
And as I said, the case isn`t about me. I`m not going to stay on a case if somebody thinks I`m biased, especially where the case has a year or two to go because then every time you rule against them thereafter, they say, See, I told you so. So I got out. I gave it to Chief Judge Belvin, and the rest is history.
GRACE: Well, what was the allegation as to why you needed to recuse yourself?
STRICKLAND: There was two. The first was, at our first bond hearing, just after all this broke, I said on the record that -- I think my words were, The truth and Ms. Anthony are strangers, obviously calling her a liar. Little did I know that would turn out to be her defense.
That, and then later on in open court, I spoke to a blogger. I had been on his blog a few days earlier. His picture was there. I recognized him sitting in the audience. He had been -- of the blogs that I had gone to, he had been especially fair to the Anthonys. He wouldn`t allow people to trash them and say ugly things and say some of the nonsense that you get on other Web sites.
I thought, Gee, I see him, and I motioned him up and I said, you know, Your blog is civilized. You`re very fair. I think you`re doing good work. Keep it up. That was it.
About four months after that, to summarize, I was looking at his blog again, saw where he had apparently had a heart attack and he`s a diabetic and had some health problems. As I was sitting, looking at this, his -- I saw his telephone number there on the blog. I called it, expecting to get a message. Lo and behold, he answered. I said, How are you? Are you OK? Yes. I said, Keep up the good work. Get well. End of story.
The next thing I know, an investigator had gone out there, found out that I had made the phone call to him -- egregious as it was, asking about his health. And then he filed the motion to recuse. And I issued a recusal order, which I would urge you to read if you haven`t. But that was it, Nancy.
GRACE: Well -- Judge Stan Strickland, everyone, joining us. He was the first judge on the tot mom case. Judge, why do you say you`re surprised at the verdict, as many of us are?
STRICKLAND: I just -- I don`t know if I`ve -- and by the way, it`s not the first verdict that I`ve been surprised at. You understand. When you`ve been in this business a while, you learn to live with surprises. I`ve just never seen one like this, and the magnitude of it sort of surprises me. I guess I`m just shocked. We opened a big can (ph) of justice, didn`t we?
GRACE: Yes, we really did, Judge. But you, along with so many other people, are stunned. What`s the likelihood, Judge, that tot mom is going to walk tomorrow morning? I mean, she`s done 996 days already. She`s going to get time served. She`s set to go free, isn`t she.
STRICKLAND: I think you`re correct. I can`t really comment on the sentencing. But yes, to answer your question, that`s the only logical sentence. And I think down at the Orange County jail, they`re ready to be Anthony-free.
GRACE: Judge, let me ask you one more thing. While we`re talking about this case and the jury verdict being so surprising, now we`ve got juror number three stating that -- allegedly stating that she`s just sick over the verdict and that tot mom`s not innocent. What would a juror have to show for a case to be reopened, if at all?
STRICKLAND: It would -- I don`t think it can be. It would have to be outright fraud and the entire panel would have had to be contaminated, and I just don`t think that you can do that. I think the ship has sailed. She may not be the last juror to get buyer`s remorse. And bottom line is, that`s just tough luck. This is -- it`s all over but the crying, and that`s it.
GRACE: You`re right. There`s absolutely nothing that can be done at this juncture unless, as the judge says, there is fraud amongst the entire jury or amongst several members of the jury. If you find fraud in some way in the jury, that`s an entirely different can of worms. But a juror now saying, Ruh-roh, I feel really bad about this, I don`t think she`s innocent -- no! You cannot retry the case. You got one rough cut at justice. That`s it. It`s over. Tot mom set to walk free tomorrow morning.
To Michael Christian, senior field producer, "In Session." Michael explain to me why she`s going to likely get time served.
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SR. FIELD PRODUCER, "IN SESSION": Well, the misdemeanor counts she`s been convicted of, Nancy, each carry, as you say, a penalty of up to one year. So that`s four years. But she`s already served three years waiting for the trial to begin. That`s a lot of time, and that will count against her potential sentence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: There are no winners in this case.
PERRY: The jury has reached a verdict.
BAEZ: Caylee has passed on far, far too soon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the jury find the defendant not guilty...
-- not guilty.
BAEZ: Casey did not murder Caylee.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I take complete and full responsibility for my actions.
PERRY: State has served notice that it is seeking the death penalty against the defendant, Casey Marie Anthony.
BAEZ: She said to me, Jose, I`m innocent. I`m going to walk out of this place with my head high.
PERRY: First degree murder.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: And it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the jury find the defendant not guilty. So say we all.
PERRY: Aggravated child abuse.
CINDY ANTHONY: Her mother finally admitted that she`s been missing!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the jury find the defendant not guilty.
PERRY: Manslaughter of a child.
CASEY ANTHONY: I got arrested on a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) whim today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not guilty.
PERRY: And four counts of providing false information to a law enforcement officer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey is a very effective liar.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She spins tales.
CASEY ANTHONY: I was scared that something would happen to her if I did notify the authorities.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the jury find the defendant guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anyone who contends that no juror could find that these conclusions call for a sentence of death is only fooling themselves.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m sorry for what I did.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live outside the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom. All substantial charges, not guilty. Tot mom set to walk free tomorrow morning, 0900. She`s still got lying to police, four counts outstanding. She`s got one year of probation still outstanding on her stealing her friend`s checks and buying booze and push- up bras.
We`re taking your calls. Nothing in that probation precludes her from making money. And we`re already hearing about the jurors fielding offers and already getting all-expense-paid trips to, for instance, Disney by networks. Yes, it`s turning into a cash grab.
To Ellie Jostad. Ellie, what do we know about -- one juror is already fielding five-figure offers for what, an appearance?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Well, we heard this morning -- TMZ was reporting that there was a juror, number 6, we believe -- he`s described as a 33-year-old white male with two small children. That could only be juror number 6 -- that he has a publicist now. He was entertaining offers for interviews as long as he`s compensated for those.
Also, another juror, number 3, Jennifer Ford, has now spoken to the media, and we`re hearing that the network she spoke to took her whole family, nieces, nephews, everybody to Disney World. So apparently, you know, that`s what these jurors may have been holding out for, at least some of them. That`s why they didn`t want to talk in the press conference yesterday.
GRACE: What network?
JOSTAD: ABC, Nancy, is the network we`re told by her mother took her family to Disney.
GRACE: Juror number who?
JOSTAD: Juror number three. Her name is Jennifer Ford. She is a single woman. She`s a nursing student. She`s the one, by the way, Nancy, that yesterday I noticed was more dressed up than usual. She`s usually pretty casually dressed. Yesterday, she showed up in a nice -- a very nice skirt suit.
GRACE: And I`m reading the statement from the chairman and CEO of the PR firm representing juror number 6, and it says, "He will not entertain any offers that don`t include compensation." OK. There you have it.
And of course -- to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." Jean, tot mom`s first money offer is rolling in from Vivid Entertainment, according to TMZ. What do you know?
CASAREZ: That`s right, and you know what it`s for? It`s for a porn movie. But Nancy, there`s been some late news. It is being withdrawn. I`ve got to read this because it`s amazing. "It has become obvious to us that fans and people in general want nothing to do with Casey Anthony, and that includes a XXX movie. We want to make movies that people want to watch, and we now believe that we underestimated the emotional response that people are having to the verdict. A movie starring Casey Anthony is not what people want to see."
GRACE: So I guess people like their porn, but they don`t want to see tot mom in their porn. That would bother them, right, Jean? Is that what you`re getting from this?
CASAREZ: It looks like they got so much backlash, they wanted to withdraw the offer. But Nancy, I want to talk about juror number 6, you just said that had the PR agent. He`s a chef. He was a chef. He was on television in San Francisco, on local TV, making recipes for a long time. He`s used to the media. He`s sophisticated in that area.
GRACE: We are camped out here outside the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest, as we`ve got our eyes peeled on the courtroom at 0900, tot mom set to appear in court. Will she walk free?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If he was so diabolical that he was trying to cover up something, why would he want his co-conspirator to talk to the cops?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caylee I still love and miss dearly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state and the defense presented...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s never coming back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... hour after hour after hour of forensic evidence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And obviously, this family knows more than what they`ve said on the stand.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The truth doesn`t really matter to them.
GRACE: She`s going to be on easy street!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But the one big thing they didn`t have...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What matters to them is proven versus not proven.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... Casey Anthony`s DNA at the crime scene.
JESSE GRUND, CASEY`S FORMER FIANCE: I treat the Casey that I was engaged to like she`s dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live outside the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest in the trial of tot mom, Casey Anthony. Not guilty, says a jury. And now on all those remaining counts that she was found guilty on, lying to police, she is set to walk free tomorrow morning. And she says she wants more children, is considering a name change.
And interesting, Jean Casarez, it`s my understanding that George and Cindy Anthony have had no contact with her at all since the verdict came down.
CASAREZ: And that`s not surprising, right, because they haven`t had contact with her in years. The big question I`m wondering is Lee. I sat in that courtroom and I watched a connection between Casey and Lee. There is a bond there. She wouldn`t look at her mother and father, but she looked at Lee as he left the stand after testifying.
GRACE: But Jean, Lee was not in the courtroom when the verdict was announced. And I also understand he has not been to visit her since the not guilty, either.
CASAREZ: Well, that makes sense, but that`s interesting. There was an empty seat for Lee, Nancy. Cindy saved one. But he never came, and so they finally put members of the public in those seats.
GRACE: Jean, where will she go, providing she does walk free tomorrow? And frankly, Belvin Perry doesn`t have a whole lot of choice. Even if he sentenced her to the max of four years, she`s already done nearly a thousand days. That`s practically time served.
CASAREZ: You know, I`ve asked that question because I want to know. And the defense has told me that they`re going to take care of her. They want to protect her. They don`t think she`ll go to her family`s home, but then you don`t know that, either. They`re not sure. But they will take care of her safety and her housing, I believe.
GRACE: So Ellie Jostad, where she will go?
JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, we don`t know that yet. Like Jean said, there`s been a lot of speculation that maybe she would go stay with one of her attorneys, maybe go stay with -- I`ve heard Cheney Mason mentioned. I`ve also heard Elizabeth Fryer (ph), a younger attorney on Jose Baez`s staff. But like Jean said, Cheney Mason said it wouldn`t be home with her parents. So we`ll see.
GRACE: You know, Ellie, if she goes to Cheney Mason`s house -- hey, Cheney, you better lock up the checkbook!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If this truly was an accident in the pool, Caylee Anthony would have been found floating in the pool, not floating in a swamp down the street.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, CIRCUIT JUDGE, ORANGE COUNTY: I will adjudge you to be not guilty.
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: There are no winners in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Casey Anthony not guilty.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: Life`s not fair.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Really an amazing thing.
CASEY ANTHONY: It`s ridiculous.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Now within a matter of hours --
CASEY ANTHONY: It`s going to blow over.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: -- could walk out back into society a free woman.
CASEY ANTHONY: Thanks for them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had a dream not too long ago that I was pregnant. It was like having Cays all over again.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m not going to give the media anything when I get out of here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve thought about adopting, which even sounds weird me saying it, but there are so many children that deserved to be loved.
CASEY ANTHONY: People really need --
CROWD: Justice for Caylee. Justice for Caylee.
CASEY ANTHONY: -- to get a life.
JEFF ASHTON, PROSECUTOR: If the issue was whether she was responsible at all for it, I don`t think it would have made any difference. I mean you never know. But the facts that we had, the way we looked at them, this was a first-degree murder.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, we are live at the Orlando courthouse, and taking your calls. After a stunning not guilty verdict yesterday, tot mom set to walk free tomorrow morning.
Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Bradford Cohen, defense attorney, New York. Hugo Rodriguez, defense attorney, former fed with the FBI Miami. And a special guest, attorney for George, Cindy and Lee Anthony, Mark Lippman is joining us.
Mark, I understand, and correct me if I`m wrong, that George and Cindy, and Lee, none of them have had any contact with tot mom since the not guilty. Why?
MARK LIPPMAN, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE, CINDY AND LEE ANTHONY: Correct. Since 2008, actually. And why, I couldn`t tell you. We had hoped to meet with Mr. Baez today, but unfortunately, I heard he had flown up to New York to do an interview, so we weren`t able to achieve that, but we`ll see where we go tomorrow.
GRACE: But, Mark, why would you want to meet with Baez? I mean why aren`t they going to visit tot mom?
LIPPMAN: Well, she`s still represented and he blocked us from meeting her prior to the trial, and it`s his indication that he`s still running the show right know.
GRACE: I`m sorry, I couldn`t hear that last sentence. Repeat?
LIPPMAN: Sure. He`s still running the show right now. He`s -- before we go meet with her, obviously my clients don`t want to show up and then be rejected so we need to make sure all arrangements are in place.
GRACE: Mark, you`ve got to get Baez`s permission for Cindy and George to see tot mom?
LIPPMAN: We`re trying to make accommodations I guess is a better word than permission, so everybody is on the same page.
GRACE: Mark --
LIPPMAN: It`s definitely a difficult position --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Yes. What were your clients, George and Cindy Anthony`s response to the verdict?
LIPPMAN: It`s -- unfortunately, I can`t discuss everything we talked about, but I can say that this is a chapter in their life that they`re very happy that it`s over. They won`t be deposed anymore. They won`t have to sit on the stand or be recalled 10 times. The allegations of sexual molestation, I believe as baseless as they are, have been finally put to bed. And it`s just a chapter that they can close and turn and start to try and rebuild their lives.
GRACE: You know, Mark, a lot of people have wondered why when the not guilty verdict was read in court yesterday, George and Cindy got up and left instead of sticking around to make contact with tot mom.
LIPPMAN: Sure, it`s real simple. We were given the opportunity to leave a little bit earlier and it was recommended by law enforcement. The Orange County Sheriff`s Office, which has been wonderful the last few days, has made several suggestion that we`ve taken to heart regarding security. And as you saw yesterday, the mob outside was tremendous and first and foremost, I need to make sure my clients were protected.
GRACE: You know, Mark, your clients, George and Cindy, have been through so much already. Do you believe that tot mom is moving back home with them?
LIPPMAN: Unfortunately, I can`t discuss that for a variety of different reasons, including security. What they plan to do or how they plan to do it. At such a time as they want to release where she`s going to be living, I`m sure Mr. Baez will do that.
Mr. Mason apparently came out yesterday and said she wasn`t going home, and then I`ve heard him say or other reporters say that he may --
GRACE: Yes, well, Lippman.
LIPPMAN: She may be going to his house or --
GRACE: Mason says a lot.
LIPPMAN: Who knows?
GRACE: Cheney Mason says a lot.
LIPPMAN: Yes, he does. Yes, he does.
GRACE: As a matter of fact -- as a matter of fact, let`s get a shot of Cheney Mason shooting a bird at everybody standing out on the sidewalk. This was yesterday -- there you go.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: There you go. Outraged court watchers, making their feelings known.
LIPPMAN: I just want the public to know that he`s not representative of --
GRACE: That they -- the defense is gloating. This is a poster showing Cheney Mason the defense lawyer shooting a bird at reporters and people out on the street outside a bar while they`re having a champagne party.
Yes. OK. Now that`s one thing they didn`t teach me in law school, Mark Lippman. So anyway, back to tot mom.
LIPPMAN: Mason did what he did, he`s not representative of the Orange County bar, the Florida bar. Certainly there are attorneys that I hold with the utmost respect and integrity. He happens to be one of them and it`s probably not one of his finer moments.
GRACE: So, Mark, you have successfully evaded my question about whether she is moving home. Let me throw another question at you, Mark Lippman. You`re a vault, Mark. I can`t get anything out of you, as it should be.
Mark, what about Lee? Why wasn`t Lee Anthony in court yesterdays for the verdict to be read? There was a chair -- a seat there for him but he was a no-show.
LIPPMAN: No, he watched the verdict on TV. And it was easier for him to watch it at home versus coming to court. A very difficult day for everybody yesterday, and that was just his choice.
GRACE: Mark, I understand that tot mom is considering changing her name and having more children. Have George and Cindy had any response to that?
LIPPMAN: No, I`m just hearing that for the first time, certainly. You know, she can do what she wants, she`s been vindicated by the justice system. As far as security purposes, I wouldn`t think it`s a bad idea to change her name, maybe dye her hair, whatever she may choose to do.
She`s probably one of the most recognizable people in our nation right now and she`s going to have a very difficult time.
GRACE: With us and taking your calls is the attorney for George, Cindy and Lee Anthony, Mark Lippman.
So, Mark, question. With all those hundreds of checks that tot mom stole from Cindy Anthony -- I don`t mean hundreds of dollars, I mean hundreds of checks. Is there ever going to be a prosecution on that?
LIPPMAN: Again, I can`t discuss what my clients choose to do or not to do. Certainly --
GRACE: OK.
LIPPMAN: It`s a crime that`s been committed and she has the right to prosecute or ask the state to prosecute. But I can`t discuss how she wants to proceed with that, if she wants to proceed with that or what she plans to do.
GRACE: And Mark, in your clients, George and Cindy`s statement that they released yesterday, they said that they did not agree with the tactics the defense use in getting the not guilty verdict. I assume they`re referring to trying to claim George Anthony molested tot mom.
LIPPMAN: Right. I mean when I said baseless, I`d be very specific on that. They did a very good job in attacking the scientific evidence by putting on -- they did what they`re supposed to do as far as experts.
As far as coming out in opening and calling my client, George Anthony, a sexual molester, I mean that`s where the baselessness comes from. There`s never been any evidence of it. And day they showed me that evidence is the day that I`m done practicing law.
GRACE: Everyone, with us, Mark Lippman, the attorney for George, Cindy and Lee Anthony. There`s a family that`s been to hell and back and now they`ve got a life sentence hanging over them. They will never see Caylee again.
Tot mom set to walk free tomorrow morning 0900, but to where?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The charge of first-degree murder, not guilty. Aggravated child abuse, not guilty. Aggravated manslaughter of a child, not guilty.
CASEY ANTHONY: Hey, guess what? That happened to me.
BAEZ: The truth stops here.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: We`ve been O.J.`d.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he was talking about how he thought George was combative on the stand.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: You are badgering me. You`re trying to get me upset, sir. Treat me with a little bit of respect and you`ll get respect back, that`s all I`m asking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think sometimes jurors see that and they say, hey, maybe they`re hiding something.
KRYSTAL HOLLOWAY, ALLEGEDLY HAD AN AFFAIR WITH GEORGE ANTHONY: And for the next two days, he was texting me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do have a romantic relationship with her?
G. ANTHONY: No, sir. That`s very funny.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can say I saved her life.
DR. DREW PINSKY, M.D., HOST OF HLN`S "DR. DREW": I think this is not the time to celebrate.
CASEY ANTHONY: I just want to go home. I know my mom will never forgive me.
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: Spiteful bitch.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How long will she get away with this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They call this justice? They say the American flag flies today? It does not.
CASEY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) protected here than if I were on the outside.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live in Orlando outside the courthouse. Tot mom set to walk free tomorrow morning 0900. As a matter of fact, some lawyers claim that as of yesterday, tot mom Casey Anthony actually has a lawsuit against the state of Florida for wrongful detention from date of incarceration to the present. Tot mom getting day-for-day credit on all counts.
Now it is irrelevant if a judge sentences to consecutive or stacked sentences on the lying to police tomorrow because she`s already maxed out on the charges. Now that`s a theory we have got going.
Unleash the lawyers, Bradford Cohen and Hugo Rodriguez.
To Bradford Cohen, what do you make of juror number three now saying she`s sick over the verdict and that tot mom`s not innocent?
BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I`ll tell you what happens is buyer`s remorse. She now knows that the world is coming down on her.
GRACE: You just stole that from Strickland.
COHEN: Did I? I`m sorry -- I`m sorry to say that.
GRACE: Yes, he said it first. Come up with another thing.
COHEN: The fact is that that she knows the world is coming down on her, and that`s what she wants to do. She wants to now say, oh, you know what? That wasn`t my decision. But when she sat there and the judge read the verdict, that was her decision at the time and that`s it. It`s over with.
She can`t go back now and say, oh well, that really wasn`t my decision. It`s too late. If she didn`t feel that way, she should have spoke up at the time and she didn`t. Now she goes home to her family, her friends and everyone`s coming down on her, and now she wants to say that wasn`t my decision, and it`s just not going to happen.
GRACE: But what if anything can be done about it, Hugo Rodriguez?
HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FMR. FBI AGENT: Very little or nothing. I`ve been involved in several similar situations where jurors after the verdict wanted to come forward. And the rules specifically preclude that unless, as the judge previously said, there is fraud that was perpetrated within the confinement of the jury room. And that is difficult to show.
GRACE: Give me an example when everybody is talking about fraud so we can all understand what you`re talking about.
RODRIGUEZ: Someone --
GRACE: Fraud within a jury like what?
RODRIGUEZ: Someone brings in a bible and starts giving testimony and asking everyone to pray on this and going to religious tentaments (ph) and getting into religious feelings to invoke people to change their positions.
COHEN: Or that wasn`t really her decision. Or she really felt it was not -- wrote down guilty and --
GRACE: OK. Now you`re talking. Now you`re talking, Cohen.
COHEN: That would be fraud.
GRACE: For a juror to say that was not my decision, I was pressured into it.
COHEN: Correct.
GRACE: That`s not how I really felt.
COHEN: Correct. If she wrote it down some place --
GRACE: A juror being bribed.
COHEN: Something like that.
GRACE: A juror -- a stealth juror.
COHEN: Yes.
GRACE: Something like that.
COHEN: Correct.
GRACE: And speaking of jurors, to Amy Singer, jury consultant for tot mom`s defense team, what do you make of juror number three now saying she`s sick over the verdict, that tot mom`s not innocent?
AMY SINGER, JURY CONSULTANT FOR TOT MOM DEFENSE TEAM: It doesn`t surprise me at all, after all there`s social conformity effects. She made an unpopular decision so she`s second guessing herself.
GRACE: What do you make of juror number six now fielding five-figure offers for speaking about his experience?
SINGER: Are you speaking with me?
GRACE: Yes.
SINGER: I think that he had a reputation for being on TV shows and sort of likes the spotlight. And so it doesn`t surprise me either. I wonder who`s going to pay.
GRACE: To Leslie Seppinni, clinical psychologist, joining us out of L.A. You know, Leslie, what does that say to you? That tot mom was fielding offers from pornographers who now say even porn lovers don`t want to see tot mom, she`s looking at $1 million for a book deal, made-for-TV movie, licensing fees for appearances.
What does that say about her?
LESLIE SEPPINNI, PSY.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You know the bottom line is we already know that she has characterological issues. We already know that she`s despicable as a person in terms of issues of morality and ethicacy. So I`m not surprised.
What I will tell you, though, is don`t be surprised when people start buying the book and start seeing the movie, even though right now they`re outraged. They did with O.J. O.J. sold something like 100,000 or 120,000 in the first month. So did Amy Fisher. She sold 30,000, I think, in the first week.
So don`t be surprised if this all turns around because of the celebrity of it.
GRACE: To Natisha Lance, our producer joining us at the courthouse. She`s been on the case from the very beginning.
Natisha, tomorrow morning tot mom will be brought over from the jail and sentenced on those four remaining counts what. What do you expect to happen and where will she go?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, what I can tell you is that I was over at the courthouse earlier today and there was a crowd of people lining up there to get tickets to go inside to be there for sentencing.
Several of the people still disagree with the verdict and there are also several people who agree with the verdict that has come down, but they do want to see what will happen tomorrow and if Casey Anthony will go free. That`s still the big question, we don`t know for sure.
What we do know is according to the Orange County Corrections officers is that they`re going to do everything that they can to take special precautions because this is a high-profile case so that they want to make sure that Casey Anthony is released back into the community safely.
GRACE: You know to Ellie Jostad, it`s not the first time somebody guilty has walked free. O.J. Simpson, Robert Blake, Andrea Yates, Michael Jackson -- you know, the list just goes on and on and on.
What became of them, Ellie? They did pretty well for themselves?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Right. Well, as you know, O.J. Simpson is back in jail as is Phil Specter. O.J. was tried for that burglary in Las Vegas, he`s got a few more years to spend behind bars. Specter, hung jury first time around --
GRACE: But wait a minute, Ellie, hold on.
JOSTAD: Yes.
GRACE: Between the not guilty and the second felony, he lived the high life in a luxury mansion playing golf every day with a Nicole Brown model look alike live-in. So you know he lived the high life for well over a decade.
JOSTAD: Right. Yes, exactly, Nancy, and the other thing is, too, remember his mansion is here in Florida which has the Homestead law, so the Goldman family who have a civil judgment for wrongful death against O.J., they can`t get that house from him.
Also you`ve got other defendants like Robert Blake, acquitted. He tried to get custody of his daughter, but wasn`t able to. She`s now living with the -- one of her half sisters.
GRACE: We are now learning -- and I`ll throw this to you, Michael Christian, that the state of Florida is asking tot mom to reimburse the Orange County Sheriff`s Office for costs of the investigation for them looking for Caylee for so long while she says she knew the whole time Caylee was already dead.
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, "IN SESSION": Yes. That`s possible, Nancy. I`m not sure that`s really going to go anywhere, but that is possible. The state of Florida can do that.
Right now, she is judgment proof. But if she gets some money down the line, that could be a possibility.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
G. ANTHONY: A beautiful little girl who not only meant the world to me, but meant the world to my family. And so many of you that never got a chance to actually hug her.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: Caylee is watching over all of us.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Marine Corporal Christopher Leon, 20, Lancaster, California, killed Iraq. Awarded Purple Heart, Navy and Marine Corps Commendation medal, Combat Action Ribbon.
Loved writing songs, hanging out with his niece Hannah, working out, eating healthy. Favorite meals, protein drinks, chicken, and salads. Favorite music, rap. With a big heart and a big smile, leaves behind grieving mother Kathy, grandmothers Rita and Sue.
Christopher Leon, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but our biggest thank you is to you for being with us. We will see you tomorrow night. We`ll be here, outside the Orlando courthouse, and the final chapter where in our own way we seek justice for Caylee.
See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
