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Nancy Grace
Casey Anthony Rejects Jail Visit by Mother
Aired July 08, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Bombshell tonight. While a national poll says two thirds of all Americans believe tot mom is guilty of killing 2-year-old little Caylee, her only child, as predicted here, tot mom gets a $1 million offer to tell her story. And tonight, we learn tot mom will finally be forced under oath to answer the hard questions. This as parents George and Cindy Anthony get multiple death threats. But in the last hours, we learn tot mom turns down a visit from her mother at the jail.
And it`s not just tot mom cashing in, juror number six, the chef, gets a $50,000-plus offer to talk. But he`s holding out. Is it a bidding war? Just hours after lead defense attorney Jose Baez signs up with a high- profile talent agency, Paradigm, they dump him. You can`t pay them to rep Baez!
As local restaurants close their doors to the tot mom jury, literally lightning strikes a huge tree at the Caylee memorial. Guess we know who else is mad about the verdict!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, FLORIDA DISTRICT COURT: Four distinct, separate lies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lies, lies, lies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony won`t be getting out as early as was first announced.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow.
PERRY: All four counts to run consecutive to each other.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) Casey (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey is a very effective liar.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: Are you kidding me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are the doors she`s going to come out of when she is, in fact, released a week from Sunday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There has been no justice for Caylee!
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m glad I`m not on the outside. I`m glad I`m not out there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened to Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure you do.
CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something happened to Caylee. The longer this goes, the worse it`s going to be for everyone. Everyone! The worse it`s going to be for everyone. Right now, everything you told us, we`ve locked you into the lie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. While a national poll says two thirds of Americans say tot mom is guilty of killing 2-year-old little Caylee, her only child, as predicted here, tot mom scores a $1 million offer to tell her story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For three years, she has exaggerated every bit of evidence the prosecution has.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nancy Grace, who was the leader of the Casey Anthony coverage, was also very opinionated in her coverage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think a lot of things she says just fuel the fire and they`re based on nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most of this nonsense that they see spewed by bleach blond former prosecutors...
CHENEY MASON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: Media assassination for three years, incompetent talking heads.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he talking about Nancy Grace?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I think he`s talking about the revenge host.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any remorse for saying these things, any sense that you owe Casey Anthony an apology?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve become a bit of a lightning rod.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live outside the Orlando courthouse, bringing you the latest. And what a bombshell day it has turned out to be! As many of the talking heads attack me and others, I guess they`ve got to take on two thirds of American public that agree tot mom is guilty of killing her only child, 2-year-old little Caylee.
But what talking heads have to say means absolutely nothing at this juncture. Tot mom set to walk free now not Wednesday, but next weekend, a few more days added to tot mom`s free stay behind bars.
Out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, joining us at the courthouse. A lot`s happened in the last 24 hours, Jean.
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy, a lot has happened in the last hour. We are just learning that Casey Anthony has turned down a request by her mother to visit her just about an hour ago.
Now, we know that Cindy Anthony has wanted to visit Casey in the last few years, right before trial. And she has always turned her down, we believed, because that video could be shown before a jury. Well, the trial`s over. There is no criminal trial anymore. Still, she`s turning her down. That appears to be personal.
GRACE: You know, Jean Casarez, right on the eve of trial, Cindy Anthony goes to try to visit tot mom and tot mom turns down the visit, but takes the money. Cindy left I think about $250, $300 for tot mom. She took the money but refused to see her own mother the eve before her murder one trial.
And this as we learn -- to Drew Petrimoulx, WDBO, also at the courthouse -- death threats being hurled at George and Cindy. Hold on. His satellite`s down.
Let`s go to Michael Christian on that. Michael?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SR. FIELD PRODUCER, "IN SESSION": ... heard this from court people and we`ve also heard it from the attorneys for the Anthonys, Mark Lippman, that there have been, indeed, death threats received. It`s hard to imagine that people would be so inflamed about this that they would go after Casey Anthony`s parents, but that is, indeed, being taken seriously, death threats against George and Cindy Anthony.
GRACE: What do we know about them, Jean Casarez? I understand that the death threats are coming in to their home phone, death threats by phone against George and Cindy Anthony. And then tot mom`s got the nerve to turn down a visit for her mother, who many experts say lied on the stand to save her life, and she`s turning down the visit while her parents are getting death threats?
CASAREZ: Doesn`t quite make sense, does it. It really doesn`t. But those are the facts. And the attorneys in the case are getting e-mails of accusations and also threats, also. So I think everybody involved with the defense camp believes they are at risk now of harm.
GRACE: You know, Jean, we also learned that local restaurants are closing their doors to the tot mom, the Pinellas County tot mom jury. And I think that that is just some of the sentiment across the country after this not guilty verdict. Of course, her defense team says they`re worried about tot mom`s safety, but any act against tot mom at this point would be really lowering everyone to her level. A violent act is not condoned in any way. To fight violence with violence is wrong. Everything has to be done through our system, does it not, Jean Casarez?
What can you tell me about restaurants closing their doors?
CASAREZ: What you`re talking about, Nancy, is vigilante justice. You`re exactly right. Well, the restaurant -- it`s not in Orlando. It is in Pinellas County. It`s Clearwater, where these jurors live. It`s Skyline Chili. And they actually posted a notice to not welcome the jurors. Now, their corporate entity has made them take it down, but it was the intent of that restaurant to not allow those jurors to walk through their front door.
GRACE: And joining us shortly, Dr. William White (ph), the psychologist who examined tot mom, Casey Anthony, behind jailhouse walls for hours on end. He says she`s absolutely not mentally ill. He`ll be taking your calls, as well.
Let me go back to Jean Casarez, standing by at the courthouse. Jean, so much in the last 24 hours is going down. Let me ask -- OK, Jean`s satellite`s down.
Let`s go to Ellie Jostad. A $1 million offer to tot mom to tell her story, a million dollars?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Well, you predicted it, and "Star" magazine via Radaronline is reporting -- and we have not gotten confirmation from the show yet, but they`re reporting that "The Jerry Springer Show" has offered her $1 million to appear, but she has to appear with her parents.
GRACE: Well, that`s a catch. Joining me right now at the jailhouse is Jane Velez-Mitchell, host of "Issues," is Jane Velez-Mitchell. Jane, tell me, what is the climate there at the jailhouse? What`s happening?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, "ISSUES": Well, somewhere behind the barbed wire behind me, Nancy, is Casey Anthony, cooling her heels, waiting to get out. Now, I talked to one of the prisoners who was just released, and he said, Oh, yes, everybody behind bars knows that Casey Anthony was there. This is actually called the Casey Anthony jail now. That`s the way they refer to it.
But they actually thought that she was already gone. Now, we know that the date has changed. First they said Wednesday and now they`re saying a week from Sunday. A lot of people are thinking maybe they`re going to recalculate again. Maybe this is part of a strategy to treat her like, unfortunately, some sort of celebrity and whisk her out in the dead of night or switch the days or switch the hours.
We know there`s a lot of entrances and exits. And whenever she goes, we might not know. And then they might announce it -- Oh, she was released 12 hours ago or 24 hours ago and she will have already been out of the jail, possibly out of town.
I mean, for all we know, they could take her right to the airport and she could just leave this area. One thing we do know, Nancy, she cannot live here safely. So many people are furious, furious with this verdict because those are the very people who searched for little Caylee, thinking she was alive, when Casey really knew she was dead. and they feel very betrayed.
GRACE: Jane Velez-Mitchell joining us live at the jailhouse. To Caryn Stark, psychologist. You know, Caryn, I think it`s very, very unlikely that anyone is going to seek revenge against tot mom. The reality is, while they`re angry, they`re angry because of the miscarriage of justice and those, and those are not the people that are going to have vigilante justice against tot mom. People that care about the system, they`re not going to have vigilante justice against tot mom. I`m more worried about the threats on Cindy and George.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think that we should worry about all of them, Nancy, just because of the fringe element. There are people that have been watching this, and unfortunately people who are on the edge take it personally and begin to relate to what`s happening as though it`s happened to them.
And so there are always -- there`s always the possibility of some person who`s unstable who will step in and do harm to one of them. I think all three really do need to worry.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Jason Oshins, defense attorney, New York, Anne Bremner, high-profile lawyer out of Seattle. Now we learn that tot mom is be going to be forced under oath and asked the hard questions she never answered in the criminal trial. What`s happening, Anne Bremner?
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, but the thing is -- there`s going to be, of course -- the Zanny the nanny case is pending, as you know, Nancy. Everyone knows. She`s going to have to have a deposition. She`ll have to be under oath. She`ll have to answer questions. And of course, there`ll be a trial. She`ll have to do the same thing, and they can call her as a witness, unlike in the criminal case.
But here`s one catch. If she appeals these lying convictions, the misdemeanors, what about the 5th Amendment right not to, not to testify?
GRACE: To Jason Oshins. Recall that when O.J. Simpson, Orenthal James Simpson, was acquitted on double murder, he still had to go under oath in the civil trial, the wrongful death case. Now, this is not the wrongful death civil case, this is a case filed by the true Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez, who she claimed forcibly kidnapped little Caylee at Jay Blanchard Park and took off with her.
Zenaida Gonzalez has spoken to me many times, as have her lawyers, and they say she can`t get a job. People still shun her. Before the trial and all the evidence came out, people thought she may have taken Caylee and killed Caylee, and her life has been turned totally upside-down. So now they get to put tot mom under oath and ask all the tough questions, just like with Simpson. That`s when learned that Simpson had failed his polygraph by, like, a negative-40. I mean, flunked it plus some.
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I hear you, Nancy. I mean, listen, what`s going to happen in a civil trial, obviously, is, you know, completely different from the standard here. So we`ll have to examine that as it comes. I`m interested in seeing, ultimately, what are the damages? What could she actually prove? If she wins her case, what will her actual damages be?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SINGING) She wanted to learn to play guitar be a ballerina, a movie star...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are hearing a special song created by Rascal Flatts (ph) (INAUDIBLE) to Caylee. He told us we could play it for you tonight. It`s called "She`s Going Places."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SINGING) She can (INAUDIBLE) every afternoon, she can laugh and play...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: Very happy for Casey. I`m ecstatic for her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There they were, starting to pour their champagne, getting their glasses up to celebrate.
LINDA DRANE BURDICK, PROSECUTOR: No person would ever make the accidental death of a child look like murder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably a horrific accident. Unfortunately, it did snowball and got away from them.
JEFF ASHTON, PROSECUTOR: People don`t make accidents look like murder!
CASEY ANTHONY: I take complete and full responsibility for my actions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey is a very effective liar.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She spins tales.
CASEY ANTHONY: I was scared that something would happen to her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police have told you that Casey had told you that this Zenaida Gonzalez was not the person she picked out. You went on TV and did not clear her name that night, did you.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: I`ve already answered (INAUDIBLE) This is not the lady. When I get up out of here, I want to walk over to her and shake her hand and tell her I`m sorry.
PERRY: I will adjudge you to be not guilty.
BAEZ: There are no winners in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony, not guilty.
CASEY ANTHONY: Life`s not fair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live outside the Orange County courthouse, bringing you the latest. In the last 24 hours, major developments in the tot mom case. Tot mom will not be released from the jail on Wednesday. That date has been pushed back yet again. Now we`re looking at next weekend.
This as money offers flooding in to tot mom. The latest, a million- dollar offer for her to tell her story, as predicted here. Not only that, we learn that juror number six is claiming he`s getting multiple $50,000- plus offers to tell his story, but he`s holding out. Is there a bidding war?
Tot mom turns down a jailhouse visit from her mother, Cindy Anthony. She had asked to come to the jail and visit her daughter tonight at 7:00 PM. Tot mom turns her own mother away. This after her mother takes the stand and under oath, according to many court watchers and legal experts, perjures herself to save tot mom. And she turns down a visit from Cindy, as George and Cindy as both getting death threats because of their daughter, tot mom?
We are taking your calls live. Out to Cindy in South Carolina. Hi, Cindy. What`s your question.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Nancy. I love you. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to say that prosecution lawyers and defense lawyers have to go to college. They have to get a degree in order to try these clients. And I feel that, especially in a murder trial, that they should raise our standards on the jury selection.
GRACE: OK. You cut out right there at the end. We should do what with jury selection?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We should raise our standards on jury selection. I feel that they should have more education, especially in a murder trial. We should not just randomly select jurors. They should have more education.
If these lawyers are going to have to go to school to pass a bar to defend or prosecute someone, I feel like that the jurors, especially in a murder trial, should have equal education to judge them.
GRACE: Well, you know that? This is -- that`s an interesting concept, Cindy, because a lot of court watchers believe and legal experts believe that sometimes, when you`re dealing with extremely complex evidence, that a lot of jurors don`t understand it. Some of these jurors just went through -- you know, didn`t finish high school.
But let me tell you, that`s not going to fly under our Constitution. Believe it or not, when our Constitution was being written and enacted, Thomas Jefferson and others wanted only property owners to be able to vote. Since they were going to be paying all the taxes, he thought they should be the only ones to get to vote for president and anything else. So long story short, that was kicked out unceremoniously on its ear.
I understand what you`re saying, but there`s no way that a jury pool is going to be limited to only the educated. And let me tell you something, Cindy in South Carolina. I understand what you`re saying, but from my experience, the more educated people are, the more they turn into complete jackasses. So you know, I don`t know if that`s going to be such a great idea.
But this evidence was overwhelmingly difficult to understand. Most of the jurors just gave up and didn`t even bother taking notes. As a result, tot mom walked.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BURDICK: There`s nothing that`s wrong with Casey Anthony.
CASEY ANTHONY: Are you kidding me?
BURDICK: That can`t be explained using two words.
CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she`s at!
BURDICK: Pathological liar.
If this truly was an accident in the pool, Caylee Anthony would have been found floating in the pool, not floating in a swamp down the street!
The way these remains were disposed of...
CASEY ANTHONY: I just want Caylee back.
BURDICK: ... shows complete, complete indifference to the child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the jury find the defendant not guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live in the Orange County courthouse, bringing you the absolute latest. And what the latest is, is incredible. Tot mom, as predicted here, gets a million-dollar offer to appear on TV and tell her story. You know what? Next comes the books and the made-for-TV movie, maybe a big screen production. Who`s going to play tot mom?
And we understand juror number six is fielding $50,000-plus offers to tell his story, but he`s holding out. Guess he wants even more. Remember, greed is one of the seven deadly since, juror number six. And we understand that the PR firm Paradigm, a high-profile, high-powered PR talent firm, has booted lead defense attorney Jose Baez. He only retained them for a couple of hours before they thought twice. You can`t even pay them to represent Baez! And lightning strikes a tree at the Caylee memorial. I guess we know who else is mad about the verdict.
Do I have Jane Velez yet at the jail? Yes, no, maybe? I do. Jane Velez, what about the tree, that big huge tree -- let`s see a shot of it, Dana -- getting struck by lightning at the Caylee memorial? Now, Jane, you and I had very different views on the hereafter, but this tells me we`re not the only ones mad about the verdict.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It was a bizarre coincidence, if you want to call it a coincidence, or maybe you don`t, Nancy. But it was right out of a movie. There was a storm. The skies got dark. And as we...
GRACE: You mean the movie "The Ten Commandments" maybe?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, exactly! I mean, you can`t make this stuff up. It`s unbelievable. Here we are, just processing Casey`s going to get out, Casey`s going to get out, here`s the day when she`s going to get out, and boom, right near the site where little Caylee`s remains were discovered, a tree hit by lightning.
It really -- you could have an army of Hollywood script writers working around the clock until they collapse, and they wouldn`t come up with plot twists like this. And I think that`s why it makes such a compelling story.
GRACE: Everyone, you are hearing music especially written by Rascal Flatts. Also, there was Gary Levetts (ph) and Cletus Judd (ph), a tribute to Caylee. Rascal Flatts told us we could play it for you tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: State of Florida versus Casey Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The release date for Casey Anthony was changed.
CASEY ANTHONY: Come on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We now know that she`s going to be out of jail next Sunday.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ever-changing nature of what goes on in this case.
CASEY ANTHONY: All you have is speculation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have more than speculation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The crime has been committed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about Caylee? What about Caylee?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And someone needs to pay for it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who killed Caylee? What about the baby?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey`s parents.
CINDY ANTHONY: I have no idea who took Caylee.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: . have gotten at least half a dozen death threats.
GEORGE ANTHONY: I have a belief in my daughter, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Since their daughter was acquitted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because they are concerns.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About her safety.
CASEY ANTHONY: In some ways I almost feel more protected here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With the bloodstain on your hands.
CASEY ANTHONY: . than if I were on the outside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when Casey is released, they`re going to take appropriate measures.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The whole world knows.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: . to make sure she`s safe and to make sure that members of the public are safe.
CASEY ANTHONY: Under protective custody.
JUDGE BELVIN PERRY: You realize that there are folks out there that want to do crazy things?
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m being watched at al times.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What she did was a disgrace to all innocent children in the world.
GRACE: She can have a movie. She can pretty much make as much money as possible.
CASEY ANTHONY: Want to let everyone know that I`m sorry for what I did.
PERRY: Guilty or not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Extremely guilty.
GRACE: She will.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We`re live at the Orange County Courthouse bringing you the latest. The release date for tot mom has been moved off this coming Wednesday. It`s going to be a little further, probably next weekend. And apparently she`s going to be whisked out of the Orange County jailhouse in super secret mode, probably in the middle of the night.
But I`m more concerned frankly about her parents, George and Cindy Anthony, now receiving multiple death threats that are under investigation by the Orange County sheriffs. This as the offers pouring in for tot mom, over a million dollars just for one appearance to tell her story on "Jerry Springer."
And we have a poll that says two-thirds of Americans believe tot mom is, in fact, guilty of killing little Caylee. There is only a handful of people that disagree. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GERALDO RIVERA, FOX CORRESPONDENT: For three years, she has exaggerated every bit of evidence the prosecution has.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: Nancy Grace, who was the leader of the Casey Anthony coverage, was also very opinionated in her coverage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think a lot of things she says just fuel the fire and they`re based on nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most of this nonsense they see spewed by bleach blonde former prosecutors.
CHENEY MASON, CASEY ANTHONY ATTORNEY: Media assassination for three years, incompetent talking heads.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he talking about Nancy Grace?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I think he`s talking about the revenge host.
JOHN KING, HOST, "JOHN KING USA": Do you have any remorse for saying these things, any sense that you owe Casey Anthony an apology?
You`ve become a bit of a lightning rod.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, I guess the old adage is true, you`re known not by your friends, but by your enemies. Long story short, whether people like it or don`t like it, the truth is the truth.
We are taking your calls live. Out to Drew Petrimoulx joining us, WDBO, right outside the courthouse behind me. Drew, can you tell me any more about the death threats against George and Cindy?
You know, it takes a lot of nerve for tot mom to turn down a visit this evening from her mother, Cindy Anthony, who has had tried desperately to see her daughter. I mean, I don`t know what I would do if -- you know, when I walked in the door, praise the lord, Lucy and John David run to me, they run, they`re happy, they`re screaming with joy, and I feel the same way.
And at night when I come home after the show, they`re waiting up, they`re waiting up in their cribs for me to come in and get them and take them into bed with me. And I can`t even imagine how Cindy Anthony feels with her daughter, who many say she committed perjury for, turns away her visit this evening, Drew, with her mom getting death threats over her.
DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO REPORTER: Yes, well, her turning away these visits is nothing new. She has been doing that for two years. In fact, right before this trial started, she turned away a visit from her mother.
As far as the death threats, you`ve seen what it is like out here, Nancy. There is really some anger in the community. People have come out here to the free speech zone at the courthouse with signs, even attacking the jury, attacking Casey Anthony. I think for most part that`s as far as people that are extremely angry will go, is signs, chants, yelling.
But, of course, as with any situation that gets this intense, the worry from law enforcement and people like us is that people will take that one step further, actually trying to contact the jurors, or go after the Anthony family or even go after Casey when she`s released from jail.
Jail officials tell me that they`re going to be taking precautions to make sure her release is both safe for her and the community. And with them moving dates around like this, you have to wonder if at the end of the day we`ll even know the exact moment that she`s released from the jail or if they`ll try to do it in a way that is secretive to keep her safe and to keep, frankly, people in the community safe.
GRACE: Well, joining me right now, I`m hearing in my ear, is Dr. William Weitz, a clinical psychologist that examined tot mom Casey Anthony behind bars. He, along with the rest of us, taking your calls.
He examined her, as I recall, was this as a part, Dr. Weitz -- thank you for being with us, to determine whether she was competent to stand trial?
DR. WILLIAM WEITZ, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Thank you for having me. No, Nancy. Actually, my engagement with the defense team actually began in December of `09. It was way before the competency issue came up later of course during the trial.
Obviously competency and sanity were some issues that we addressed but it was not specifically the competency issue that came up towards the end of the trial.
GRACE: So the defense hired you to examine her to determine whether she had any kind of a mental illness, insanity, incompetence, and I`m throwing around the term insanity, but under the law, of course, Dr. Weitz, it means whether you knew right from wrong at the time of the incident.
It doesn`t mean that you`re stark, raving mad, dancing around without your clothes on and a lamp shade on your head, it means did you know right from wrong at the moment of the incident.
Dr. Weitz, has an excellent reputation. Dr. Weitz, did you learn that tot mom was not mentally ill?
WEITZ: Well, the evaluation that we did, and, Nancy, I want to stress we did not only clinical interview and interaction, but we reviewed significant educational and developmental history information, police reports, we looked at family records, we looked at videotapes and pictures. So we tried to -- and psychometric testing.
So we tried to accumulate the best information available to render some professional opinions. And, yes, with respect specifically to the two issues of mental defect or disease, it was my professional opinion that Miss Anthony did not demonstrate any evidence of either a psychotic/thought disorder, nor a mood disorder.
So there was no mental disease or defect. Additionally, with respect to the second area of personality disorders, while there were many indices and behaviors that she exhibited which characterized some of them, there was, in my professional opinion, no one personality disorder that she met the formal criteria.
GRACE: With me, Dr. William Weitz, clinical psychologist who went behind bars to interview and examine tot mom Casey Anthony. When you say some of her behaviors were consistent with mental illness, but not one in particular, what behavior -- to what behavior are you referring?
WEITZ: Yes, I`m talking mostly about now, Nancy, the personality disorder, certainly not psychosis or mood disorder, but we`re talking about the personality disorders. Let`s be clear. Many of the mental health experts have been yelling psychopath, sociopath.
GRACE: Mm-hmm.
WEITZ: And there are a variety of mental health personality disorders that have qualities that consist of things like the lying, the clear lying, the deceitfulness, the stealing of money, the misrepresentation, the misstatements, the things that Mr. Baez and his opening statement, closing, talked about strange, unusual behaviors. Certainly those components exist within Miss Anthony, and they were recognized.
And we strongly considered those factors when we looked at whether or not she met a personality disorder classification. However, in my mind specifically when it came to anti-social personality or sociopathy, there was a specific provision that ruled out her being diagnosed with that disorder.
GRACE: So, Dr. Weitz, you`re saying that some of her symptoms of potential mental illness, which you ruled out a mental illness, are lying and stealing?
WEITZ: No. They`re not -- I recognize those were qualities of her behavior. The components of mental illness, those are some of the issues, though, that concerned us. I say it would be the equivalent to Dr. Vasser`s shocking statement, the thing that shocked her about Casey Anthony was the distance, the dissonance between her situation in jail, in court, and the emotional affect, the attitude, the reactions, the affect that she displayed which were totally inconsistent with one another.
That was the area of concern. That was.
GRACE: And what was the affect?
WEITZ: Casual, sometimes cheerful, inappropriately, calm, clearly no signs of any things like depression, irritability, fear. And, by the way, Nancy, those were -- although I`m talking about my own professional opinion, those were initially some of the concerns of the initial psychiatrist that interviewed Miss Anthony when she was initially jailed.
There was serious concern among the mental health professionals about the inconsistency of her affect, about her mood, about her reactions, and the real situations that she was in.
GRACE: Right. So even with the knowledge, and this is, you know, likely before Caylee`s body was found, she was found to be inappropriately calm and cheerful, interesting.
Dr. William Weitz is with us, he interviewed tot mom, examined her for hours on end behind jailhouse walls. Everyone, we`ll be right back, taking your calls outside the Orange County Courthouse.
But case alert, the disappearance of 27-year-old Lauren Giddings, a Mercer University law student, now a homicide. Cops find her torso outside her apartment. She just graduated law school. The world in front of her. Please help us. If you have info, call Crimestoppers, 877-68-CRIME.
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GRACE: Welcome back. We`re live outside the Orange County Courthouse. And we are taking your calls. Joining us right now, Jane Velez-Mitchell, standing outside the Orange County jailhouse, behind her tot mom housed.
Jane, so much happening in the last 24 hours. Weigh in.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, "ISSUES": Well, the idea that Cindy wanted to come here and be with her daughter or talk to her over those videotapes that we end up seeing through discovery, and that Casey said, no, after Cindy, as you mentioned, Nancy, a lot of people believe she perjured herself on the stand to try to save her daughter, and that`s the thanks she gets.
So I`ve got to tell you, when Casey gets out, I don`t think she`s going home to mom and dad, that`s for sure. I think she`s going to split from the family and go off on a new adventure and God only knows what is going to happen then.
GRACE: Joining me, Ellie Jostad. Ellie, very quickly, now a petition to start "Caylee`s law." What is it, in a nutshell?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Actually a Florida lawmaker has drafted this bill. It would make it a felony for a parent to not report their child missing for 48 hours, or to not report that death within two hours.
GRACE: And with us, special guest Michelle Crowder, who started the "Caylee`s law" petition. Ms. Crowder, thank you for being with us. What prompted you to start this petition?
MICHELLE CROWDER, STARTED "CAYLEE`S LAW" PETITION: Well, what actually prompted it, Nancy, was the fact that she has only been convicted of lying to the police so there was no obstruction of justice, no child endangerment, no child neglect in there at all.
GRACE: And you -- a lot of people know that.
CROWDER: And I saw a page on Facebook, somebody had suggested that it needed to be done, so I just decided to jump on there and do it.
GRACE: You know, Ms. Crowder, a lot of people have heard the story, they know what happened, they know the facts. But you took it upon yourself to actually do something about it, not just stand by and twiddle your thumbs. And I`ve got to applaud you, Ms. Crowder. Michelle Crowder joining us out of Durant, Oklahoma.
Marc Klaas, what do you make of -- president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation, of Michelle Crowder`s effort, it has now been drafted as a proposed law, what do you make of it, Marc?
MARC KLAAS, PRES. & FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, Nancy, I have to tell you, as soon as I heard about the petition, I got online and I signed it. I think I was one of the first several thousand people to do so.
GRACE: Oh, wait, how do you do that? How do you do that, Marc?
KLAAS: Well, it was circulated through change.org, I believe, and there were links to it so that one could go in and fill in certain form fields, verify your identity, and then add yourself as a signatory to the petition. I and hundreds of thousands of others did exactly the same thing.
GRACE: And I will be doing it tonight after the show, Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation. Michelle Crowder, star of the "Caylee`s law" petition.
Woody Tripp, former police commander, let me ask you something, Woody, I want to go back very quickly to these death threats against the Anthonys. What do you do about that, if they`re coming in through the phone, as a cop, how do you investigate that, what do you do?
WOODROW TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER: Well, Nancy, several different ways. And depending upon how the death threat comes in, via e- mail, via phone, text messaging, and certainly because of that type of modern technology, it is our friend as well as it is our enemy.
So certainly we have the ability to re-track or to track that type of messaging. The problem is, is those that don`t come in, it is the lone wolf type situation where the person just shows up and then commences to do some type of harm or violence. That`s the most dangerous.
GRACE: And very quickly, Woody, have you ever seen a jailhouse inmate turn down a visit from their mother, a mother that possibly lied on the stand to save their skin, that leaves them money that they take, that sat in their jury trial every single day, that mouthed the words "I love you," and she turns down a jailhouse visit in the last hours?
TRIPP: Actually, I haven`t, Nancy. But then again, we can`t be surprised when those of us do what we expect them to do and we would certainly expect Casey to do exactly what she did.
GRACE: Good point, Woody Tripp. Right now, Alexis Tereszcuk joining us.
Alexis, what is the newest thing with the million dollar offer to tot mom to come on TV and tell her story?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: Hi, Nancy. Actually, yes, we learned that Jerry Springer has offered Casey a million dollars, you`re exactly right, to come on and talk about the show.
You know, she`s going to be out in days and he thought this would be a great place for her to do it. But that`s a lot of money. She`s going to have huge legal bills. She`s probably going to have to pay a bunch of money back to the state for the investigation. And this is something, you know, after taxes, she`s going to get $500,000, it`s a lot of money.
GRACE: Well, you know, everybody, the Springer people are just sending us a statement that they`re denying an offer, even Jerry Springer, who actually is, like, highly educated, is saying, hey, I don`t want anything to do with tot mom. So we`ll find out over the following days about that million dollar offer.
Right now, "CNN Heroes."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSANNE JANSON: My father called me and told me that something bad had happened in Thailand.
My daughters, Eleanor and Josephine, went to Thailand for vacation with my ex-husband. And it was hard to get good information in Sweden. We decided to go to Thailand ourselves and look for them.
When I realized I wouldn`t bring them back home alive, I wanted to die. But the Thai people had suffered so much more. I felt a connection to them. And I wanted to give something back.
My name is Susanne Janson. I moved to Thailand because I wanted to help poor Thai children to make the most out of their lives.
We are not an orphanage. It`s a home for children and families in it. We want to provide these children with the chance to make some changes in their lives. Love is the first thing they need. Second, food. But then it`s school and education.
We want to be as close to a normal family as possible. Of course we are a very big family. When something is good, we are happy together. If something bad happens, we cry together. That`s the most important if you work with children. Not so much heads, but a lot of heart.
My daughters loved their life. And I wanted to show them that I would survive this. And if I could help my new children to love their life, at least one good thing came out of this.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC PLAYING)
GRACE: Everyone, you are hearing a new song being played on the country music stations today. Rascal Flatts and others, tribute to Caylee.
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(MUSIC PLAYING)
GRACE: You are hearing "She`s Going Places" by Rascal Flatts, Gary LeVox, Cletus T. Judd, written in tribute to Caylee. He told us we could play it tonight for you. Actually, you`ve got to cut it off. I can hardly stand to hear it. Thank you to Rascal Flatts, Judd, and LeVox.
Right now I want to turn your attention to a missing 4-month-old baby girl, Kate Phillips. Matt Zarrell, what happened?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Searching for a 4-month-old baby Katherine "Kate" Phillips. She was last seen June 29th around 1 p.m. Mom had called 911 to report the baby missing around 1:14 p.m. The baby and the mom and the likely father were in the car. Mom goes inside the house to get the stroller. She comes out, the car and everyone is gone.
Apparently the mom and the likely father had an argument. He was arrested three hours later at his parents` home. No sign of the baby. But from jail he allegedly told the mother, he insists the baby is alive.
GRACE: With me right now, April Lange, baby Kate`s grandmother. She is joining us from Luddington. Ms. Lange, thank you for being with us. Baby Kate is so beautiful. What are police telling you, Ms. Lange? What are police telling you?
APRIL LANGE, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING INFANT: They`re not saying a whole lot. Their son refuses to say anything about our baby`s whereabouts. We don`t know -- we actually just got word that he might be bonding out on the 13th, which is just crazy that they`re going to drop charges from kidnapping to parental kidnapping.
GRACE: Let me get that tip line out there, 231-869-5858.
Weigh in, Woody -- excuse me, weigh in, Marc Klaas.
KLAAS: Well, I think the investigation is going very well. There is a very short amount of time between the time he took off with the baby and the time he was arrested. So what law enforcement has to do is totally hone in on that timeline and then do the searches from that point out.
GRACE: Everybody, look at baby Kate. The tip line 231-869-5858. God bless her and bring her home.
Let`s stop and remember Marine Lance Corporal Leon Deraps, just 19, Jamestown, Missouri, killed, Iraq. Awarded Purple Heart. An Eagle Scout. Loved sports, outdoor, off-roading. Leaves behind parents Sandy and Dale, sisters Dawn, Omi (ph), Regina, brothers David and Peter (ph). Leon Deraps, American hero.
Thanks to our guests. But especially to you for being with us. And a special thank you to Rascal Flatts, Cletus Judd, and Gary LeVox for your beautiful music.
Good night from the New York control room. Let`s see who is there tonight. There you go, Dana, Brett, everybody else hiding. See you tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend.
END
