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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Where is Casey Anthony?; Another Suit in the Works Against Casey?
Aired July 18, 2011 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Where is Casey Anthony? She`s out of jail and MIA, and protesters are furious.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caylee! Caylee! Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caylee! Caylee! Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caylee! Caylee! Caylee!
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where will America`s most infamous woman turn up? Rumors fly about a luxury hideaway. And I`ll talk live with two journalists who were inside the jail and saw Casey walk to freedom.
Plus, inside the ferocious media fight for the first Casey interview. We`ll speak with the man offering her $1 million.
Also, famous spiritual commentator and best-selling author Marianne Williamson helps us deal with our grief and rage over this case.
And I`m taking your calls.
ISSUES starts now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You hear the helicopters overhead. There`s crowds here. Casey is in the jail behind us. Any moment now, she`s going to be out.
Casey is in the jail behind us. Any moment now, she`s going to be out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caylee! Caylee! Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caylee! Caylee! Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caylee! Caylee! Caylee!
VELEZ-MITCHELL: As you walk through this crowd, there`s just so many people gathered here from all over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m here to support Caylee. And to be here when they release the murderer.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s see what happens, because I think this is it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bad parenting! Bad parenting!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay off the sidewalk. Get out of the street.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The doors are opening. Take a look. It looks like she`s coming out, possibly, right now. Is that her? It looks like it was her because they`re taking off right now. That had to be her. We are here at the Orange County jail.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like, they honestly just let her walk out and let everyone see it. I just thought it was unjust.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It was a wild night. I was there, and I will never forget it. And the question tonight, folks, where did she go?
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez Mitchell. And I`m coming to you from New York just back from Orlando. And we are hot on the trail of Casey Anthony tonight. Where is she? What is she doing now that she`s free? And what about that million-dollar deal to give her first interview? Will she take the offer out there? And even if she does make money off this tragedy, some are calling for a boycott against anything Casey.
A whole lot of people outraged. I`m talking hundreds and hundreds of thousands. That Casey could make money off of this horrible tragedy that claimed the life of little Caylee.
Ever since Casey Anthony walked out of the Orange County jail Sunday morning -- and I was there -- I haven`t slept a lot, people. We have heard about a slew of possible locations where Casey might be hiding out.
Let`s see. We`ve got Puerto Rico. We`ve got Ohio. We`ve got Houston. We`ve got the small town of Prescott, Arizona. We`ve got California. And who`s to say she`s not in the area of Orlando? A new theory about that tonight.
And from the look of these protesters outside the county jail, she is not going to be welcomed with open arms anywhere she goes. Watch all these people. They`re chasing after the SUV that is carrying Casey from jail.
I was right there as the SUV raced right by me. And I can tell you, under oath, I would swear to tell you, it was a mob scene.
So how is Casey going to make a living? Well, there`s still this purported million-dollar offer on the table from a freelance TV producer. We`re going to talk to him exclusively in a moment. Negotiations may have hit a snag, because that man is now -- he`s making the offer, but he`s also apparently considering suing Casey and her attorney, Jose Baez? How can he do both at the same time? We`re going to talk to him.
Could that have anything to do with what Jose Baez said on FOX News`s "Geraldo at Large" last night. Let`s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY`S ATTORNEY: If she decides she wants to speak publicly about it, she`ll make that decision. The way we want to handle Casey`s affairs from this point on is in a -- in a dignified manner.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, tonight in an ISSUES exclusive, I`m going to talk to Al Taylor, the man making this purported million-dollar offer. He says he wants to deliver a message to Casey.
But let`s forget all about the money for a second. Casey`s attorney, Cheney Mason, told NBC`s "Today Show" this young woman has a lot more problems than we realize.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY MASON, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY: Her life is going to be very difficult for a very long time. As long as there are so many people of the lynch mob mentality and those willing to deny the fact that the jury found her not guilty, she`s going to have issues.
Even without that, she`s got the issues of dealing with the loss of her child, which she has not gotten over and probably never will. And the fact that she spent three years locked up in a cage.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Issues. That`s also the name of the show.
When I was in Orlando for Casey`s jail release, I spoke to people who were so upset about the prospect of Casey earning any money, a cent, because they`re still convinced, despite the jury`s verdict, that Casey was responsible for Caylee`s death. A lot of people throw around the word boycott when they`re angry. But I`ve got a feeling the woman I talked to outside the jail -- check it out -- she means business.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
We want publishers to know, we want movie executives to know, we want everyone to know that we will not go quietly in the night where they can say that they want to pay her $1 million. Well, we`re trying to unite Americans and say no, we will not buy anything, no books, no movies, we`re not going to walk paid interviews, none of it.
And how do we get past all this anger? How does America as a whole cope with Casey Anthony`s not guilty verdict. Tonight, I will speak with the famous spiritual commentator and best-selling author Marianne Williamson about coping with our grief and our resentments. Give me a call: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877-586-7297.
First, my exclusive interview with Al Taylor, the freelance producer who is offering Casey Anthony $1 million for her first interview, claiming he has lined up a bunch of anonymous investors. Al, thank you for joining ISSUES tonight. Bring us up to date on where your offer stands, Al?
AL TAYLOR, FREELANCE PRODUCER (via phone): OK, we had a verbal agreement with Jose Baez for the $1 million, and I`ve produced a series of e-mails which prove it. I sent them to your producers.
And basically I find out last night on the other person`s show -- I don`t want to mention my name, but there was another show he went on -- that he`s saying he`s not going to do the deal now. Well, unfortunately, we have an agreement.
And I think what`s going on is he`s trying to -- the other person`s show is the one we were going to line up to be the host. So what`s going on is we feel we`re being snaked out of our own deal, that they`re going to do a deal with an independent production company that they`re going to form and that`s not going to happen.
We have a verbal agreement confirmed by written e-mails. So if Casey doesn`t do the interview with our production company, we`re going to be filing a breach of contract suit against Jose Baez, Casey Anthony and the other TV host.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, yes. I definitely want to leave all the other media out of it, because frankly, I have no idea, Al, and viewers out there what`s real, what`s not real. I have no...
TAYLOR: My offer is for real, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You just blew my ear out.
TAYLOR: We have the money.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go back to what Jose Baez said on the Geraldo show last night. Let`s listen to what he said. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: What she`s going to do, no one knows. And I just heard on your network, someone is claiming that there`s a deal for $1 million. That is not so. I was going to meet with the individual and to hear whatever offer he wanted to make. That is not the case. I am not meeting with him. I am now going to change my mind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Al, he says that he agreed to meet with the individual, who might possibly be you, because it`s $1 million. It seems to line up.
TAYLOR: That`s (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We tried, by the way, to reach Jose. His mailbox is full. The number I have for him, I couldn`t get through to him. So he`s invited on our show anytime to clarify this.
If you`re watching, Jose, call us now and you can join us.
All right, but he`s not saying that he made a deal. He`s saying he agreed to meet and hear the offer, and now he`s withdrawing that offer. So I just want to give you a chance to respond, Al.
TAYLOR: Yes. No, we had an agreement. We had a verbal agreement. We were going to bring down $50,000 in down payment, and bring the rest in escrow to show him that we had the money, and they were going to sign the contract. So apparently, he`s had a change of mind, but again, we have the agreement.
You talk about dignified. That`s the pot calling the kettle black there. I don`t think what he did to the Anthony family was very dignified.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask you this question. Let me ask you this question. Do you have a message for Casey? Let`s say Casey is somewhere...
TAYLOR: I do. That`s why I wanted to bypass Jose Baez. Let me talk to Casey directly. I know you`re out there watching, because apparently, you like to follow everything that`s going on in your case. And if you`re going to be watching anything you`re going to be watching this network, because they`re doing the best job.
Casey, he`s a great attorney, Jose Baez. He got you off, but he`s not a great agent. Take my offer, because this is a legitimate offer for $1 million. We`ll do a great interview. We`re not going to coddle you during the interview. We`re going to try to get to the truth, and the reason I want to do a lie detector is because we`re not sure how much she`s going to really want to answer all the questions. So it just makes it easier. Then she can just line up and say, "Did you kill -- did you kill your daughter?" And she`ll say yes or no, and we`ll see what...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh. You are planning on putting her on a lie detector. That`s the -- that`s what this $1 million is contingent on, a lie detector attached to her while she answers questions?
TAYLOR: It doesn`t have to be, but we just thought it would make the interview better. Because we do the interview. Then we also hook her up to a lie detector, as well. I think it makes it more entertaining.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.
TAYLOR: That`s my business, Jane. I`m a TV producer. I have to make it entertaining.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think also you want to find out if she`s a pathological liar. You want to find out if she`s lying to you.
Ron Shuter of Pop Eater`s "Naughty but Nice," what do you make of Al Taylor`s proposal?
RON SHUTER, "NAUGHTY BUT NICE": I think it`s a very, very complex offer here. I cannot imagine her sitting down with a freelance producer. She doesn`t know where this interview is going to end up airing. And to hook her up to a lie detector test is something that she might not want to do even for $1 million.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Geoffrey Fieger, you`re a noted defense attorney. You used to represent Dr. Kevorkian, who`s known as Dr. Death. What is your reaction to this proposal?
GEOFFREY FIEGER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Silliness. Insanity. It just shows the prurient interest of America in this case was primarily the fact that this was a, excuse my expression, a rather slutty-looking white girl who did a hot body contest, and America was interested in seeing whether she was going to get the death penalty.
And now somebody wants to see her humiliated on television for $1 million. And anybody who subjects her to it or allows her to be subjected to it is out of their mind. It`s -- she needs to get out of Dodge fast. Because if she values her life, she wouldn`t be anywhere near any place where they have an open carry law.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Geoffrey, listen, I think if you are going to talk to her, and obviously, the whole world is talking about whether or not she`s going to talk for money, not money, whatever. Wouldn`t you want to know if she`s telling the truth? And what better way than to hook her up to a lie detector?
FIEGER: I know. But who`s going to subject her to it? Listen, you pay her $1 million, there`s a 40 percent tax. That leaves $600,000. If Jose Baez books her, he`s going to take his attorney fee, because he wasn`t paid anything for this adventure here. Or even if he doesn`t.
That leaves her with something in the neighborhood of $600,000, and maybe that will be enough to live on for a while, but then she`s got to leave, period. She doesn`t have a lot of options.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know what? I don`t -- I don`t know if she has any other options.
FIEGER: Probably not.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hugh Hefner said he`s not going to put her in "Playboy." Vivid entertainment, a triple-X-rated pulled the plug on doing anything with her. So maybe this is the best deal she`s going to get. I don`t know.
Don`t move. We`re taking your calls on this: 1-877-JVM-SAYS, 1-877- 586-7297.
Plus, later, dealing with the grief and anger that many of us feel after the Casey verdict. I`m going to talk with famed spiritual commentator and "Return to Love" -- "A Return to Love" author Marianne Williamson, who`s going to help us deal with resentment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MASON CHANEY, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: She`s only 25 years old. A decade from now, hopefully she will have some stability in her life and maybe a husband and they can be somewhere in Montana and start over. I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The audacity that her and her attorneys have. They think now they won the world, they own the town and they`re going to stop at nothing. They think that they`re...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have no interest in watching her lie to me. And getting paid to lie to me. Get paid to lie to me. No, no, no, no, no. This is a future book. It`s $29.99. "What really happened to Caylee" by Casey Anthony. You ready for what`s inside.
Lies, lies, lies, lies.
Guess what? More lies. What else did you expect?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That was a protester I spoke with outside the jail moments before Casey Anthony was released at 12:01 a.m., or 12:10 a.m. on Sunday. It is now Monday evening. This is her first really full day of freedom without the car chases, et cetera, et cetera. We`re going to get to where she is possibly in a second.
But first, we`re talking to TV producer Al Taylor, exclusively. And he claims to have $1 million. He claims that he wants Casey to make this deal and go around her reps who may have backed out of said deal or other similar deal recently.
Al, your last thought?
TAYLOR: Well, my feeling, first of all, to Fieger there, he`s a hypocrite because he milked Dr. Kevorkian all the way to a run for governor. So don`t talk about they`re exploiting her.
We`re going to make it an interesting interview. Just like you said, I think people would want to see her hooked up to a lie detector. And I actually make sure to interview her that way. That may be easier for her at the same time. I don`t consider that undignified.
So I just again say to Casey, you`re getting bad advice. I know you want to take the $1 million. America is seething right now. You`re probably the most hated woman in America. Take the money. Let`s do the interview. You might as well make some money off it. Don`t listen to the people that are saying oh, wait a while. The anger is going to go away. And we`ll put you on Barbara Walters, and she`ll coddle you.
No, America wants to see the tough questions. They want to see her hooked up...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hold -- Al, Al, Al. A couple of things. One, Barbara Walters does not ask easy questions. She`s the best interviewer on the planet. OK? So that I have to correct you on.
But I want to give Geoffrey Fieger a chance to respond, because you said some not so friendly things to him. Go ahead, Geoff.
FIEGER: Well, I really don`t need to respond. I mean, everyone knows what I did with Dr. Kevorkian, and his language speaks for itself. He`s rather offensive, not simply to me but the way he speaks. And I don`t -- I think you get more bees with honey than the vinegar that you`re spewing out.
And if anybody is representing Casey Anthony, why would they -- after what you just said, I think you`re looking for more publicity for yourself. Because I don`t think it`s very likely you`re about to get Casey Anthony anywhere.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s switch gears here and talk a little bit - - and thank you, Al, for joining us. I do appreciate it and please come back. If Casey responds to you, come back, and we`ll put you on again.
I want to talk about where Casey Anthony might be. Let`s show you some of the video of her when she left, we are now going to search to a Google map where she might have gone. Now, there was a plane that took off and landed in Prescott, Arizona, and then took off again and landed in San Carlos, California. And one of the reasons people are thinking that might be her is it took a very zigzag route, and it left at 3 in the morning, just a couple of hours after she was released. And the zigzag route seems suspicious.
Now, there`s other possibilities. She could be with relatives in Ohio. They say no. We haven`t heard from her. Relatives in Texas. That -- nothing has come of that.
On an island in Puerto Rico, hiding in Orlando, on a media mogul`s yacht. What we`re going to do on the other side of the break, these are possibilities. I`m going to give you my prediction of where she is. I could be right; I could be wrong. But she`s not far from Orlando. That`s what I say.
Stay with us. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She walked out. She had a look of relief on her face.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is that her? It looks like it was her, because they`re taking off right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, there was so much drama-rama surrounding her release. I was right there as the cops jumped in their cars and chased off after her. Where did she go? The whole world is wondering. I
I`ve given you some other possibilities, but here`s my guess. And it`s just an education guess. I think she went to stay with her defense attorney, Cheney Mason, and let`s listen to what Cheney Mason had to say about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If she came to you and said that she wanted to come to your house for a while, would you allow her?
MASON: Yes. I would. I surely would. For a short while, you know. Not very long, but I wouldn`t have any problem with it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Cheney Mason reportedly lives in a gated community not too far from Orlando. Just a commute. It`s a gated community, so it would be easy to keep the media out. That`s my best guess. Anyway, I don`t know if I`m right but that`s what some sources are telling me but I think it`s a very good possibility.
Ron Shuter, Pop Eater`s "Naughty but Nice," you wanted to weigh in on Al Taylor?
SHUTER: Yes. I think this is a really fascinating offer that this gentleman is putting up. Originally he said that the $1 million was an offer from Jerry Springer. He used to work as a freelance producer for Jerry.
I spoke to Jerry, and he said the offer was absolutely not true. Jerry Springer wants nothing to do with this girl, would never pay $1 million, and was quite angry that Al was out there saying that he was putting this offer on Jerry`s behalf.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, can I jump in for one second? Yes, and I asked Al Taylor for that. And he said that he was originally going to do it through Jerry Springer, and Jerry Springer said no. So what he decided to do, he claims, is get a bunch of independent investors together, pull together the money, create a production company just for this purpose. And then they`re going to sell it to foreign distributors who don`t care about the negative backlash, who don`t care if they`re going to be boycotted, because they`re in Germany and Japan, and then they might give it away in the United States for free.
Geoffrey Fieger...
FIEGER: Hook him up to -- hook him up to a lie detector.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, maybe tomorrow we`ll ask...
FIEGER: He needs sodium pentothal, too. It`s preposterous. This guy`s getting his voice or face on television. That`s not serious, he`s not real.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, wait a second. When we heard about a porno company offering her a porno and then they backed out, nobody said that`s not real. When we heard about Hugh Hefner...
FIEGER: I did.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... he said, "I`m not going to have her on `Playboy` or in `Playboy`," everybody took that. Listen...
FIEGER: You`re talking about a child accused...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s not "National Geographic." OK. It`s going to be a sleazy kind of deal, Geoff.
FIEGER: Listen, you`re talking about an accused child killer. Literally. What is the audience for that, other than perhaps somebody who wants to hear her lie again, because she`s very doubtful will not be truthful. But other than that, she is a pariah.
And all of these so-called offers are probably pretty unrealistic, although I`m sure people would pay or networks would pay to have that interview aired, regardless of whether she lied or not.
But again, it`s a one-shot deal for her. If she does it, if they allow her to do it, so be it. But that`s all she`s got period, forever.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree. Geoff, thank you so much for being a good sport. And you, too, Rob. It was an interesting segment or two.
All right, up next, I`m going to talk to the two journalists who saw Casey walk out of jail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The doors are opening. Take a look. It looks like she`s coming out possibly right now.
What are you crying for?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sadness for the baby.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re sad for the child?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now. Yes, I do.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The whole family here, two children. "Honk for Caylee". Why did you bring your children out for this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I have four children and it means that much to me. And even they know everything that happened. I just can`t even concept a mother that can do this to her children.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m here to support Caylee and to be here when they release the murderer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They honestly let her just walk out and let everyone see it. I just thought it was unjust.
(CAYLEE SINGING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Casey Anthony woke up this morning a free woman after walking out of the Orange County Jail to throngs of people right after midnight Sunday. I was there, right in the thick of it, as loud and crazy as looked outside.
Three journalists were allowed inside the jail to witness her release. A plan that sounded oddly and eerily similar to what happens during an execution actually. All three men walked away with totally different opinions of Casey`s expression as she walked out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY ZUMBADO, VIDEOGRAPHER, NBC NEWS: She walked out, she had a sign of relief on her face. Kind of glad to be out and she walked by one of the SR team sergeants. She thanked them and continued very rapidly outside.
RED HUBER, STILL PHOTOGRAPHER, "ORLANDO SENTINEL": She wasn`t smiling, she wasn`t frowning. She didn`t look like she was joyful. It seemed like to me, it was just a very plain look. Maybe a slight grin, but not that noticeable.
MATT SEDENSKY, REPORTER, ASSOCIATED PRESS: There wasn`t a very dramatic expression. She was sort of looking up towards the ceiling. I wouldn`t say she was smiling; holding back any sort of facial expression.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Joining me now are two of those fantastic journalists: Red Huber from the "Orlando Sentinel" and Tony Zumbado from NBC News. Welcome to you both. We were all there during all of this; you on the inside, me on the outside. Then you held a news conference and you explained basically.
So for those folks who were sleeping when this all went down which is most of America, Tony, just explain briefly what happened. Paint a picture.
ZUMBADO: Well, you know, we were gathered outside in a parking lot, the three of us. And we were told that we were going to be going in at a certain time. They walked us in through the main lobby, went through security.
They checked our cameras. They checked our belongings. We went through the metal detector. Then they escorted us up to the fourth floor where there`s a public area there and there`s, like, a hearing area. And it`s Courtroom Number Two where we were put there for another, I say half an hour, 45 minutes. And we were told certain scenarios were going to go down.
Red asked a couple of questions of like who was going to be there, who was going to be accompanying. We asked a couple of technical questions of how it was going to go.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Get us down to her release part.
ZUMBADO: Excuse me?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Get to the release part.
ZUMBADO: All right, the release part, now we`re down stairs in the lobby and they informed us that in minutes she`s going to come out, to be ready. So we started rolling, Red and I had talked about how we were going to handle it. Whatever happened we had our own scenarios of what we had to do.
So, as she came out through the door, the first face that I saw was of Jose Baez, and I was hoping that she would be the first one to come out so I can capture those first seconds of freedom in her face.
Seconds later, I see her kind of walk on the left side of Jose. And then I saw her face and like I said, what I thought I saw was a sign of relief. A little glassy eyes, and her saying "thank you" to the SRT sergeant that was there who had been escorting her to the courthouse for the last couple of days.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now you see, when you see her walking out, we can show that one more time. If you look carefully, she goes "thank you" -- she mouths "thank" you to one of the deputies who`s carrying this big sub machine gun.
Red Huber -- ok, let`s see -- one, two, three, "thank you", right there. Red Huber -- were you shocked, I was shocked that she came out the front way.
That`s the -- I was out there for days. And that`s where I used to go to use the restroom. Right in there, and walk in there, go through metal detectors, use the restroom and come out.
I was shocked that they had her come out the front door; your thoughts on that and what the strategy was behind that.
HUBER: Yes, I was surprised, too. We were briefed on that scenario, and there were two other scenarios that Plan B and Plan C. And we were not given any details on that, only if -- it was kind of like a need-to-know basis. And when we were briefed by Alan Moore, a PIO person at the jail, I was just totally -- I was shocked. I said out the front door? It was just -- it was incredible.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and I think one of the reasons is they didn`t want to treat her like she was special. They said they went to great lengths to treat her just like any other inmate being released. And the only reason she had extra security was that obviously they wanted to make sure she left safe and sound.
Susan, Georgia, you`ve been so patient. Susan, your question or thought.
SUSAN, GEORGIA (via telephone): Yes. I was wondering, doesn`t she have a felony from the checks? From stealing the checks from her friend? And if she does, how can she go anywhere and change her name legally, doesn`t that have to follow her?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow, that`s an excellent question. I think people can change their names. I spent 18 years in Hollywood where people change their name every other week. In fact, you can`t even officially change your name there because they don`t want -- you can but they say it`s just a common law name change if you want to change your name. Because so many people do it; they`re actors, obviously.
But Red Huber, you`ve been following this case from the very start for the "Orlando Sentinel" doing such a great job. First of all, your thoughts about the significance of this in your career; you`ve had a long career. Will this be one of the moments that you remember?
I always say on my death bed I`ll remember a couple of things, like the Michael Jackson trial, the O.J. Simpson trial, the Los Angeles riots and I think the Casey Anthony release is going to go in there, too.
HUBER: Yes. I think so, Jane. I`ve been very fortunate in my career to photograph some pretty significant events of history. One is the space shuttle program for 30 years. And actually, Tony and I have covered a number of these things together. It was kind of neat to actually do this, having Tony and myself because we`ve known each other for many years.
And we were talking about it that it`s a -- an event that we will remember, that we documented those moments in time when she made -- when Casey Anthony and Jose Baez left the jail.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tony, were you nervous? Were you nervous, oh, my gosh, I`m not going to get that shot. You only had 15 seconds. Let`s show the video of her walking out again. And these people are really good at what they do. You cannot miss frame. If you miss a frame, you are in big trouble, right, Tony?
ZUMBADO: You`re as good as your last shot. So I had butterflies in my stomach. But, you know, working with Red and being next to him, he mellows you out, because we talk to each other. He knows that building much better than I did. So he gave me some intel of the building, of how the door opened up, maybe how fast the timing would be. And how much time we would have.
So we kind of talked ourselves through the shot. And we took the position. We both discussed where we should stand because we were not allowed to move or follow her out. But we also talked between ourselves I said to Red that look if something does happen outside, we are responsible for whatever might happens. God forbid we`re going to have to cross the line here. Red basically just looked at me and said we`ll do that when the time comes if it comes.
But, you know, it was an important shot, and you want to start rolling -- you know, I wanted to get the clock, too, which, you know, detailed the exact moment that she came out. And that was 11 after midnight. So I was focusing on the clock with one eye and looking at the door with the other one. As soon as I saw through the glass door -- of the door that there was motion, I panned from the actual clock that is in the lobby to the door. And Jose was the first face that came out.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me tell you something, I`ve been there. That stuff isn`t easy. It`s not just about pressing a button. It`s a lot more difficult than that.
Desiree, Florida, your question or thought. Do you have anything to ask these two gentlemen?
DESIREE, FLORIDA (via telephone): Hi, how are you doing, Jane?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fine.
DESIREE: I`m a big fan.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
DESIREE: I just had a -- I just had a question -- not a question. I just -- you know, something`s been bothering me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
DESIREE: And, you know, I don`t know if it`s just me or a bunch of other people.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tell us.
DESIREE: We, as a society, I think, are feeding her sick, you know, warped personality by all this publicity. And I know it`s the issue of what she did and everything is horrendous. It`s what she did -- you have time with me -- what she did was wrong.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Desiree, we have a couple of seconds. Red, just briefly reflect on that because a lot of people feel like we are turning her collectively as a society into a star. Did you have any qualms about that, taking that photo? And we only have a few seconds.
HUBER: No. I`m there to document the event. And we have to continue to do that, to document, to show our readers, our viewers that moment in time. You have to be focused on that, you can`t not do that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you gentlemen did an excellent job. I was there, I saw you and congratulations; job well done. Thank you for joining us.
(CROSSTALK)
Stay right where you are, viewers. On the other side of the break I`m going to speak to famous spiritual commentator and best-selling author Marianne Williamson about your grief and perhaps your anger over Caylee and Casey Anthony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caylee. Caylee. Caylee. Caylee.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve come for Caylee.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s that simple?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s right. Nobody is here to talk for her. Well, we are.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If I was on the jury, I would have hung that jury up and I would have kept her in there for years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I honestly thought they would disguise it a little bit better. Like they honestly let her just walk out and let everyone see it. I just thought it was unjust.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So many people upset with Casey Anthony`s release. They`re also upset with the verdict. They feel that she was responsible for her daughter`s death, even though she was acquitted by a jury. And of course, we respect the jury`s decision.
She was found guilty of all the serious counts by 12 people who considered the case. She was found guilty of lying to law enforcement, four counts of lying to law enforcement about what she did with the child and who she told that the child was missing. She didn`t have a job at Universal. She didn`t leave the child with Zanny the nanny. There was no Zanny the nanny. She made that character up.
So let`s listen to what Casey said when she was in jail about a woman we now know she`s now admitted was fictional but at the time was insisting was for real. Let`s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED FOR MURDER OF DAUGHTER: I`m in front of the cameras all the time.
CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: What message do you want me to give to Zanny and to Caylee? What do you want me to tell Zanny?
CASEY ANTHONY: That she needs to return Caylee.
CINDY ANTHONY: What do you think her reasons are?
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And there you see that it would appear that her mom Cindy believed that this Zanny the nanny was real and many people, thousands of people volunteered to search for the child, believing she was kidnapped by this nanny named Zanny.
We found out during the trial and opening statements that there was no Zanny the nanny and Casey claimed at that point that the child drowned accidentally in the family pool and was dead from day one. So a lot of people also feel betrayed.
Now, I would like to welcome a very special guest. This is an exclusive interview with somebody who I admire so much. Marianne Williamson, who is a spiritual commentator, a spiritual guide really for so many people and also a best-selling author; and I think one of your many, many, many books is "A Return to Love: Reflections on the Principles of a Course in Miracles".
Thank you for joining us from Los Angeles, Marianne. What are your thoughts? What do you want to say about all of this and about Casey Anthony?
MARIANNE WILLIAMSON, SPIRITUAL COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, there`s obviously a lot of high emotion about this. And I think it`s interesting how it`s like a nation has a gut check. So there are trials obviously. The jury system is I think a very enlightened principle, a very extraordinarily positive of our legal system. But it`s not an exact science. So these things happen.
And we have a righteous sense of injustice when we feel that there has been an acquittal when there should be a conviction. But I think also, if we are to be conscious citizens and we`re to really rise to the highest level of mature understanding of what`s going on here I think we will look more deeply into what I think is even a deeper scandal in this country, which is not only that some people are acquitted who should perhaps have been convicted. But how many people clearly were convicted, who should have been acquitted.
How many people, women`s clemency issues; this gentleman Troy Davis in Georgia right now. There are serious issues of injustice that unfortunately results from some of these cases. But it`s not just Casey Anthony. So I hope that all of us will take a deeper look at the broader spectrum of justice in America.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think that`s so wise. And what we need to do maybe to interpret what you`re saying is take a macro view of criminal justice as opposed to a micro view. When we get stuck on this case alone, Marianne, we get sort of into a vortex, we get tunnel vision and Americans right now, watching this case have some kind of tunnel vision.
And if you take a look at all of what`s going on in to the criminal justice system, you`re right. There are a lot of people who are unfairly incarcerated. I often here on ISSUES point out there`s a group called Families against Mandatory Minimums where so many people have been put away for having the equivalent of a couple of tablespoons or teaspoons of crack cocaine and they even spending 20, 30, 40 years behind bars.
WILLIAMSON: Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
WILLIAMSON: And women`s clemency issues. How many women? You know, if you look across the spectrum in the United States, many times, particularly women who have been victims of terrible abuse and perpetration of violence by a partner and then let`s say the man commits a murder or commits a drug deal and then says to the woman, "You will either help me hide the drugs or you will help me hide the body and if you don`t, I will kill you or your little brother or I will kill your parents." She has good reason to believe him.
Statistically that woman ends up doing more jail time than the man does. And in many states, the jury isn`t even allowed to hear that the woman had been beaten by the man repeatedly. So that women`s clemency, hey Jane, what a perfect person, I hope that you`ll consider it for your own show because you would be a marvelous voice for that kind of an issue.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, when we come back -- I personally am going to tell you, we`re going to do those stories. And thank you for enlightening us about those stories.
And we`re going to talk more with Marianne Williamson when we come right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marianne Williamson, if Casey appeared before you right now, what would you tell her? What advice would you give her?
WILLIAMSON: Well, I believe in a God of infinite mercy. There is also a law of accountability that is the nature of the universe as well. In the east, it is called karma. In the west, it is called cause and effect. And throughout the religious and spiritual systems of the world there is this notion of atonement. In Catholicism, there`s confession for your sins; Judaism the same through the day of atonement or Yom Kippur; and in 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, you were told to take a fearless moral inventory and to admit the exact nature of your wrongs.
So the ultimate issue for Casey Anthony is not where she goes today or even whether or not she gets a million dollars for an interview. The ultimate issue is whether she will ever have peace of mind. She will have peace of mind if, in fact, she does in her own heart has her own coming to God, her own coming to Jesus, whatever it is for her, where she does atone for any errors that she`s committed.
And I do believe in a God of infinite mercy. But that mercy is activated only when there is the deepest, deepest level of atonement and confession. And if she does that in her own relationship with God, then I believe through the infinite mercy of God that she will have a new life going forward. But without that, you know, God`s law does not change one person to another. It is universal. And that means every person.
So Casey Anthony now will have a new life, not according to what is done materially to her, because we know that by man`s law, she has been acquitted. But there is still God`s law and that is the purification of her own heart. And she, like everyone else, has to answer to that and I hope for her sake that she will.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Some people have a theory that she might be a sociopath that doesn`t think that way. Do you believe in that, that certain people, that`s all irrelevant to them?
WILLIAMSON: Well, I think there clearly are sociopaths for whom that is irrelevant but that does not change God`s law. God doesn`t have one set of laws for sociopaths and another set of law for everyone else. So I believe that there is a higher power which is guiding the evolutionary enfoldment (ph) of everyone`s life, whether they`re a sociopath or not.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How would she atone? Let`s say she has not been straight with all of us and she did more than lie, how could she atone?
WILLIAMSON: Well, look, the truth of the matter is she cannot -- there is no double jeopardy. She`s not going to be tried again for this crime. So my hope for her is that there will be someone in her life, I don`t know what her religious or spiritual background or psychotherapy, there will be great power. Look, I don`t know what the woman`s process is.
I`m not trying to whitewash Casey Anthony here. But I do believe in an infinitely merciful God as well. I`m not in any way, minimizing what appears to -- listen, I would have voted for a conviction. The point is here that if she, in her own heart, whether it is in a church, in a psychotherapist`s office, in the closet of her own heart, with a confessor of some kind, with a 12-step program, whatever it is -- if and when she comes to that moment of -- it is called a confession of our sins by some. It`s admitting the exact nature of your wrongs, then I believe that a profound alchemical process will occur. I believe in that.
I don`t believe that God is finished with anyone until they come right with the love of the universe.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you for putting this into perspective. I love your thoughts. And I really hope everybody out there is hearing this because it applies to them too.
Final thoughts when we come back with Marianne Williamson.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: 40 seconds, more wisdom from Marianne Williamson. Your final thoughts Marianne.
WILLIAMSON: My final thoughts are that it is important for us to try both as individuals and as a nation to channel our energy appropriately. And if all we do is focus on the specifics of this case at a certain point, we are missing the opportunity to focus on larger issues of how to keep every child in America safe, for instance.
Of course, our love for Caylee Anthony is important. But that should extend to every child in America, some of whom are at risk in ways that they need not be. And I also think all of us need to atone for our own mistakes, not just point the finger at someone like a Casey Anthony.
So I think that that becomes the bottom line is that we check in our own ethics, our own righteousness, our own role as citizens in making this country a better place.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. You said it so well. Thank you so much for coming on. I know it was a tough subject and I really admire your courage to address it and you`re going to be back soon. We`re going to talk about clemency for women.
Thank you.
"NANCY GRACE" next.
END
