Return to Transcripts main page


Casey Anthony: $1 Million for an Interview; Bizarre Death of Rebecca Zahau

Aired July 20, 2011 - 21:00:00   ET


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: All right. Here we go.

Casey Anthony. Is she in a cave or what? Come out! Come out wherever you are Casey.

Plus, a new story: A millionaire, a mansion, dead bodies, and a mystery. We cannot make this stuff up, and we sure did not.

And Warren Jeffs, how can he believe that his faith sanctions sex with kids? Let`s go figure this out.

Well, now the Casey Anthony saga runs its course, there are of course other scandals stacking up out there like planes waiting to land over here at LAX. I suspect we`ll all be fascinated by that one and the next one after that and the one after that.

And I think this is why. They really sort of shine the light on the human condition and our emotional experience. We are involved our emotion state and this of course including jealousy, greed, shame, hate, anger, loneliness, and indeed oftentimes mental illness.

Remind you drama is about people who are not healthy acting out. That`s what we`re interested in. And we`re interested in the stuff and it`s fueled of course now by social media and cable television. This has been around forever.

Some of literature`s classics, books that are hundreds of years old, Greek tragedies, they all have this thread. It`s not that we`re voyeurs. We just like a good story. And sometimes those stories are just based in reality, and you can`t make it up and sometimes it`s more interesting than fiction itself.

All right. Tonight, breaking Casey Anthony news. A producer comes forward and claims he just met with Casey.

We`ll be talking with him in just a moment.

First, the Casey watch continues. Take a look at this, and then we`ll talk.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Was it Casey Anthony maybe a hoax? Some kind of cover-up? A lot of you are asking that.

A TV helicopter at Orlando Executive Airport got video of some woman, running into the airport yesterday. And they covered up her head.

JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: That is not her. That I can confirm.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: And now we found out that there was a mistake made. This could overturn the entire trial if the outcome was different.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The real cost for that mistake will be on Mr. Bradley, who probably won`t be seen as an expert any time soon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Want to prove what they`re made of? Oh, close. All right, girls.


PINSKY: Wow! Well, yesterday, HLN affiliate WFTV shot this video of a woman running from a plane at the Orlando Executive Airport. The same airport Casey supposedly flew out of on Sunday, right when she was released from jail.

But case`s attorney, Jose Baez, claims it was definitely not her. Take a look.


BAEZ: That is not her. That I can confirm. I will not say anything further as to where what as to her whereabouts, but I can absolutely 100 percent tell you that that is not her.


PINSKY: As to her whereabouts, we might learn something about that tonight.

With me here to talk about this is Lonnie Coombs, a former Los Angeles county prosecutor, and criminal defense attorney Mike Eiglarsh.

But first, TV producer Al Taylor joins us by phone. He is the producer that says he met with Casey face-to-face at a Palm Springs Hotel just a couple of hours from here, right, Al?

AL TAYLOR, TV PRODUCER (via telephone): That`s correct, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: So can you tell us what hotel she`s at?

TAYLOR: It was a meeting at a hotel. Obviously, she left the area after we had the meeting. I believe -- if the report is true, she flew back to Florida or she is still in the general area or maybe down in Carlsbad. They didn`t tell me where they were going afterwards.

But I got a call early Tuesday morning, from a representative that said if you want to meet with her, be in this certain area in 15 minutes. I was game. I showed up. I wasn`t for sure if I was going to meet her, and sure enough, she was there. And the first thing she said to me was:" where is the check?" She wants that $1 million check.

PINSKY: And did you -- how did you respond to that?

TAYLOR: Well, I tried to explain to her that the deal is $50,000 down payment, and then the rest remaining in Escrow and she`ll get it after the interview. I kind of got the feeling she thought she would just get the check from me and we would do the deal in a week or two like I could trust her. Unfortunately, that`s not how it`s going to work.

PINSKY: What is that you`re going to get for that $1 million?

TAYLOR: We`re going to get an interview. And we discussed this. The lie detector has become a big deal about I want to hook her up to a lie detector after we do the interview. And she was unsure about that of course. And I said, well, it helps you in the end, because who knows what she`s going to say. We can`t guarantee that. We can`t guarantee she`s going to give really short answers.

But the answer for that is, let`s hook her up to a lie detector, and say, "hey, did you kill Caylee Anthony? Did your kill daughter?" and she`ll have to say yes or no. So it makes it easier, and that makes the interview better as well. And obviously she was concerned about that.

PINSKY: And so Al, when you suggested a polygraph, did she recoil or was she still enthusiastic?

TAYLOR: Well, she knew about that from having seen my plea to her on the other show the issues of shamble in Mich show. So she was already prepared but I`m not sure I would want to do that.

And I tried to explain to her it would make the interview better. So I don`t think it was a deal breaker, but she definitely wasn`t that interested in doing a lie detector.

PINSKY: How did the meeting end?

TAYLOR: Well, it went on for about 15 minutes. I tried to explain a few things to her. The one thing I explained to her was remember, fame is fleeting, but infamy is even more fleeting.

And by the end of the meeting, I told her, I said, look, in six weeks, you`ll be worth $100,000, not $1 million. So I was trying to explain to her we`ve got to do it now.

And I`m worried, obviously, that I`ll get coached out of my own deal because I did approach another TV personality to be the host. And now I understand they are the ones that trying to hook up the deal and kick me out of my own deal.

PINSKY: Can you tell us who that is?

TAYLOR: I will. Geraldo.

PINSKY: Oh, interesting.

TAYLOR: Who else would be -- he called me sleazy the other day on his show. Well, that I take that as a compliment. Who else would steal somebody else`s deal but Geraldo?

PINSKY: Well, HLN or I or anybody else can confirm what Al is saying, but we`ll listen to your story.

Lonnie or Mark, you guys have any questions for Al?

LIONNIE COOMBS: Al, who else was there with her during the meeting?

TAYLOR: There was a minder. And I will not confirm nor deny that it was Jose Baez. But there was somebody else, obviously, minding the store, if you know what I`m saying.

MIKE EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I have a question. I`m not buying any of this. So my question for him is --

TAYLOR: Mark, I will say here on the show, I will take a lie detector to prove that I did meet with her, and I will challenge her to take one as well.

EIGLARSH: Ok. My question to you is, can you speak with Drew`s producers and have them find any objective evidence of this meeting?

A videotape showing her entering wherever you allegedly met with her. Anybody who can corroborate what just came from your lips.

TAYLOR: I was forbidden from bringing a cell phone or a camera obviously to the meeting you know and I was searched before I was let in.

EIGLARSH: There are cameras everywhere now. So there must be some place maybe prior to the meeting, go ahead.

TAYLOR: That I don`t know. But obviously, they are keeping her whereabouts hidden. So I don`t think --

EIGLARSH: My question is will you speak with the phenomenal Drew producers and have they written down in a detailed account of what you`re alleging so they can corroborate that this meeting ever took place?

TAYLOR: I`ll give them more information, but again I don`t want to release the name of the hotel, because obviously they`ll get harassed as well.

I`m willing take the harassment because I put my name out there. The Crimson Genesis is following this whole thing as I made the offer as a free lance producer, and both of the talk shows I made the offer for backed out.

So then I formed my own company Private Elevator Production to make the offer and we`re not going to back out. I put my neck on the line.

EIGLARSH: So you`re not willing to give us concrete objective proof of what you just said because you don`t want the hotel to be harassed? That was your position?

TAYLOR: Yes. Because obviously, I live in the Palm Springs area and I do business in the area. And then, you know, if I -- if they end up with a ton of media, they are not going to be happy. I`m telling you what I -- what has happened. I`m willing to take a lie detector.

PINSKY: Mark, come on.

EIGLARSH: Forgive me for not taking your word for it.

PINSKY: Al is still my guest. He is still my guest. And so I know that you`re being a good attorney and cross-examining the witness here. But let me ask a couple of other questions. You raised this money with some other people, did you not?

TAYLOR: Yes. Unnamed TV investors who put the money up. Again, I`m taking the hit. I`m putting my name out there. And again because people are afraid, they are afraid of a boycott.

And what we`re going to do, Dr. Drew, is syndicate it throughout the world. Sell the rights to every country, in Europe, in Latin America, even in Africa. And then we`ll probably end up giving the interview away in the United States because there`s such an up-roar over the whole thing that no one probably could pay us.

But we`re not worried about that. The idea is the budget is between $1.3 million and $1.5 million, including her million, and we feel we can turn it around and sell the rights back if $3 million.

But I will provide as a producer is --

PINSKY: Al, I have --

TAYLOR: I`ll provide all of that proof to the producers that we`ve been making the calls after the show.

PINSKY: My attorneys are interested in proof and evidence. Lonnie, one more question and then I have a question for him.

COOMBS: Al, has Casey Anthony changed her appearance in any way, and what was she wearing?

TAYLOR: I don`t want to confirm that at all, because again I don`t want anything to happen to her. As you see, they are all thinking she was wearing the same clothes for two days. I don`t want to say what she was wearing because --

PINSKY: Did anybody recognize her - did you notice anybody recognized her at the hotel?

TAYLOR: She was already in the hotel room when I got there.


TAYLOR: And I don`t know if anybody saw her come in or not. But I went in, and she was there, and then I left before they left.

PINSKY: Al, I have very limited time a less than maybe 30 seconds. What`s in this for you? What do you expect to get out of this?

TAYLOR: We expect to make money. It`s a capitalist society, Dr. Drew. We feel we should make the money off the deal, I have no problem. If she feels she should make some money off it. She has been in terrible ordeal of three years in jail. She was found not guilty.

In fact, I talked to her about a possible publishing deal I have been trying to work as well, and that was the name I came up with for the book, "not guilty." you don`t like it or not, too bad. She`s not guilty.

PINSKY: Mark is reacting to it, but because you`re a defense attorney.

I tell you I need that Pepto-Bismol again.

But Al, you let it slip that it was at a motel and not a hotel. So I get that. She was slipped in a motel, plenty of those in Palm Springs.

But is there anything else before I wrap it up, Al? Anything you want people to know about what is going on here? What you found out? People have lots of interest in this young lady.

TAYLOR: I just hope we end up getting the deal. If I do get snaked and if I do get snaked I`m going to be filing a breach of contract suit. And it was - I have to tell you she`s got some moxie.

Because when I told her, well, I`m going to sue you if you don`t follow through on the contract that was already agreed to through your representatives, she said go ahead. Join the line.

PINSKY: Wow. That`s intense.

EIGLARSCH: Oh, come on.

PINSKY: Al thanks so much for joining us.

Hang on a second, Mark. Hold on my friend.

Thank you Mark and Leonie, you guy will be a bit me more I believe.

And Al, thank you for joining us.

Now, tomorrow, my special primetime interview is with Bristol Palin.

At age 18, she gave birth to son Trip. The baby`s father, Levi Johnston, nothing could prepare Bristol for the all-out media storm that ensued during their on again off again relationships.

Tune in tomorrow night.

And we`ll be back after this.



TIM CURRAN, CAPTAIN, SAN DIEGO SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: Right now, everyone we have talked to so far is being considered a witness.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Nude body blurred out. On the grounds of the rear court yard. With evidence of bindings on her wrists and ankles and a rope trailing away from the body.

CURRAN: Adam Shacknai informed us that he cut her down when he found her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Prominent San Diego defense attorney Paul Fink`s appeared at the historic Spreckels mansion. He admits he is representing someone associated with the house.

CURRAN: I don`t want to talk about the contents or any items might have been found during the search warrant while we have an active investigation going on here. So I don`t want to compromise it.


PINSKY: Tonight, police in Southern California are calling the death of 32-year-old Rebecca Zahau suspicious. Her body was discovered hanging in the 27-room beach front mansion of her multimillionaire pharmaceutical executive boyfriend, Jonah Shacknai.

Even more tragic, this beautiful home is where Jonah`s 6-year-old son, Max, accidentally fell down the stairs just days before, and died.

Jonah is in seclusion tonight, and said to be devastated by these tragedies. Reasonably so.

But there are lots of questions police have and we have. Let`s take a look at this.


CURRAN: The reporting party later identified as Adam Shacknai told the responding officers he had found the left out with a rope around her neck and hanging from a balcony off the main house.

They located a female on the property who appeared to be deceased. The victim`s hands and feet were bound. And she was completely nude.

On Monday, a child was injured in the home. And was transported to the hospital for treatment. Are they connected? There`s nothing to indicate that those two incidents are connected.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This could be a homicide or a suicide. They are not saying which way they might lean. They don`t see this as an accident. They see this clearly as one of the other. And they are treating both equally and they saying they are looking at either possibility.


PINSKY: It is a mystery, all right.

To my expert panel joining me, CNN reporter Sandra Endo. San Diego Sheriff`s Department Sergeant Roy frank. And criminal defense attorney Mark Eiglarsh.

Let me start with Sandra. What can you tell me about Jonah?

SANDRA ENDO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we know is that he`s a multimillionaire, Drew, and he owns this vacation property right on the ocean front.

This historic mansion, the Spreckels mansion, in Coronado. And that`s the 27-room mansion that first of all on Monday, last Monday, his 6-year- old son fell down the stairs and that`s when 9-11 was called. First responders came to the scene. He was rushed to the hospital. And then being treated.

Well, two days later, Drew, that`s when this millionaire`s girlfriend, Rebecca Zahau, was found hung off the second story balcony as you mentioned, tied by her wrists and her feet, and of course the investigation is ongoing.

So what we know right now is that, yes, a devastated family. He is a multimillionaire. Very famous for --

PINSKY: Somehow I want to warn people there`s some rather graphic footage we`re seeing there of the home and the aftermath.

Roy Frank, are you involved in the investigation? And you may be limited on what you can say if you are. But my question is the following: My understanding is she was found bound with electrical cord, both hands and feet, and no suicide letter. How is that a suicide?

ROY FRANK, SERGEANT, SAN DIEGO SHERIFF`S DEPARMENT: You know, I can tell you that when we went out to the scene, obviously, it was extremely suspicious. We have had suicides where people will secure their hands or feet, maybe even behind their back. There`s literature that is out there throughout the country.

One of the things that we have to do is we have to keep an open mind. And, again, this is a tragic situation that a family is going through. And what we`re going to do is look at the evidence, and then from that point on, it should tell us what this mystery is about.

PINSKY: And Roy, when you`re talking about literature out there, you`re meaning that people that either what fake murders to look like a suicide? That kind of literature?

FRANK: We`ve had cases in the past where people committed suicide by securing their hands behind their back or even in front. People put a lot of thought into suicide at times.

And so at first glance, you have to really step back and take a look at it, and don`t rush to judgment until the evidence comes back, because that`s usually what`s going to be the thing that tells you the story.

PINSKY: Sandy, you actually went down there and talked to people, saw this mansion. Was there anyone that had seen her recently that has any bit of evidence to tell us about the mental state she was in?

ENDO: Yes. Absolutely, Drew. This is a tight community, affluent neighborhood. It`s very different type of neighborhood though, because there are people with summer homes who come just to vacation and people that have lived there for many years also.

So, one neighbor who lived there for 23 years ran into the victim, Rebecca, just the weekend before Max`s accident, said she was a vibrant young lady, was very fit, very happy. No reason to be depressed at all. So, clearly --

PINSKY: Interesting.

ENDO: So clearly a lot of mystery going on.

PINSKY: Mark, last year your defense attorney does this, I have less than 20 seconds, does this set your spied sense off at all?

EIGLARSCH: Well, of course. Her hands and her feet were bound. I appreciate them keeping an open mind. But it`s like me confronting my 5- year-old with cookie crumbs all over his face and saying, OK, maybe you didn`t eat the cookies you know. I think they are trying to keep an open mind to whoever they are going to investigate saying we haven`t ruled out possible suicide, so come and talk to us.

PINKSY: Well, thank you, Mark. Again, for me the fact that she is bound by electrical cord, that`s kind of an aggressive maneuver.

No suicide note, no previous history, very suspicious.

Thank you to my guest.

Coming up, I`m going to break down the timeline of the events in this mystery from when Max fell to when Adam, his brother, that`s the owner of the house`s brother, made the 9-11 call about Rebecca.

Stay with us.


CURRAN: The hands were bound behind the back and the feet were bound. They did not appear to be bound together. I think you used the term hog- tied.

That did not appear to be the case.



(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) On Monday, a child was injured in the home. And was transported to the hospital for treatment. Are they connected? There`s nothing to indicate that those two incidents are connected.


PINSKY: Welcome back.

Now, before we get into more of this mansion mystery story, let`s look at the timeline of the deaths last week.

Monday, July 11, 6-year-old Max falls, apparently it`s been confirmed, falls down a staircase inside the home.

He was in the care at that time of Rebecca Zahau, his father`s live-in girlfriend at the time.

Reports say only Rebecca and Max`s teenaged sister were inside the home at the time. Two days later, July 13, Rebecca is found naked, hanging by her neck, from a second-story bedroom balcony, overlooking the mansion court yard with her wrists and ankles tied.

Jonah`s brother, Adam, found her around 6:00 a.m. Adam was staying at the guesthouse apparently and he cut her down, tried to resuscitate her, and called 9-11.

His brother, the millionaire, Jonah Shacknai, I believe that`s how it`s pronounced, was not home at the time. He was reportedly standing vigil at his son`s bedside, because little Max at that time was still on life support.

Just a few days later, Max died from his injuries related to the fall down the staircase.

I`m back with my guests, Sandra and Mark.

Sandra, is there a person of interest in this case that you know of? Have the -- you have interviewed the law enforcement people down in Coronado.

ENDO: Yes. And this is really interesting, Drew, because this is such a small community. They don`t even have a homicide unit.

The Coronado police department had to refer this case to the San Diego Sheriff`s Department. They are concentrating on Rebecca`s case right now.

As for max, so far law enforcement officials are deeming it an accident. Although a lot of people are speculating some kind of link may be apparent between these two deaths, two deaths in one household in one week, very baffling for investigators and the whole community actually.

PINSKY: And there`s a lot of other detail coming out too about the owner of the house. He`s had two previous marriages. The second marriage, there were lots of allegations of domestic violence, were there not?

ENDO: Not only allegations, Drew. We have the copy of the Arizona police records right here.

A few reports of both sides claiming spousal abuse, domestic violence incidents, and no arrests were made in those cases.

But both Jonah Shacknai and his ex-wife, Dina, who had Max together, both went to the police numerous times to report some incidences of domestic violence.

PINSKY: This has got all kinds of twists and turns in it. Mark, I want to ask you again. You`re a defense attorney. You hear al kinds of stuff. Is there anything you -- any way you put this all together?

EIGLARSCH: Well, you think about the odds here. A 6-year-old who`s probably traversed that stairwell numerous times, somehow tragically falls down to his death. And I feel for al those who are suffering right now, because I have three young children.

Then two days later, a woman who`s able to somehow -- and again, they have not ruled out suicide. So now I`m trying to play this out. She`s able to herself bind her own hands behind her back, bound her own feet, and somehow gets the news up above?

I mean, yes, I guess they have to keep everything open. But I don`t see how you call that a potential suicide.

PINSKY: Yes, it`s weird, Mark. She would bind her feet and just kind of jump out hop out? It just doesn`t make sense. I agree with you.

Could all of this be a coincidence, or are criminal acts involved?

We will tell you more about what we know, next.



PINSKY (voice-over): More of the California millionaire mansion mystery coming up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The victim`s hands and feet were bound. And she was completely nude. It was a rope suspending her.

PINSKY: Who killed the girlfriend of a pharmaceutical executive? Could her death be related to the passing of his young son?

And later, polygamist leader, Warren Jeffs, is set to stand trial for sexual assault of a child. A felony bigamy trial will follow this fall.

CAPT. TIM CURRAN, SAN DIEGO COUNTRY SHERIFF`S DEPT: We understand that the victim was a house guest here. The manner of death appears to be somewhat of a violent nature. We`re starting to put the pieces of the puzzle together now.


PINSKY (on-camera): Tonight, a murder mystery in a 27-room beach front mansion. First, a little boy falls down a set of stairs and dies from his injuries, then, just a couple of days later, the girlfriend of the boy`s father is found dead inside the mansion. What is going on here?

We are back with CNN reporter, Sandra Endo. Also, criminal defense attorney, Mark Eiglarsh is still with me. And I`m joined by the sister of Nicole Brown Simpson, Tanya Brown. In addition, we`ve just been joined by the mayor of Coronado, California, Casey Tanaka. So, let me start with you, Casey. You knew both Rebecca and Jonah. Can you tell us about them as a couple?

VOICE OF MAYOR CASEY TANAKA, CORONADO, CA: No. I only knew Jonah, and I knew Jonah because his home was designated historic in Coronado in 2006. And he became the owner around 2007. And he had been involved in a permitting process to make changes or at least to attempt to, to that historic home. So, I only knew Jonah.

PINSKY: And can you tell us about him? What kind of guy he was and what you learned about him?

TANAKA: Well, I think he -- I found him to be a very patient and rational person. That the red tape that one associates with trying to get a permitting done of an alteration permit for his historic home, it was kind of an arduous process for him. And at many points along the way, our commissions or even the city council itself had denied requests that he had made, and he was very constructive in terms of taking that criticism, changing his plans, and finally, in February of this year, he succeeded at getting his approvals that he was seeking.

So, I was very impressed with the way he handled himself. He didn`t threaten lawsuits. He didn`t try to throw his weight around. And he really took our critiques to heart. So, I was very impressed by that.

PINSKY: And it`s not as though neighbors were complaining about him or he was, you know, a suspected individual? In the community, he was just another member of the island?

TANAKA: The only complaints I had heard had been with regard to the changes he is proposing to his house. He want a second-story addition, and he had made a proposal to try and open his roof up so that it would become a more habitable space.

PINSKY: And Casey, I know you guys are probably overrun down there because you have the comic con down in San Diego. And I have been going to Coronado since I was a kid, and apparently, the reason this is such a historic house is the owner of the Coronado Hotel, the famous old hotel, lived in that house. Is that correct?

TANAKA: That is correct. Well, it was called the Spreckels Mansion. John D. Spreckels eventually bought out the holdings for the Hotel del Coronado. And, if I`m not mistaken, he brought his brothers from San Francisco down to Coronado, at least one, Adolphus (ph). And so, he bought the Spreckels Mansion and attractor to around it to put his family in and himself and his life. And so, that`s why that home is called the Spreckels Mansion, and it`s a much beloved home here in the city of Coronado.

PINSKY: Well, Casey, thank you for joining us. Hopefully, we`ll have a chance to get back with you and learn more about this case as it unfolds.

I want to come back into the studio here with my panelists. Tanya, you have been through a lot of tragedy.


PINSKY: Does this story sound familiar to you in any way? Do you have some advice for people trying to make sense of this?

BROWN: Very much so, especially in Coronado. Since you`ve been visiting there and you were there today, it is very small. It`s a small beach town community, very similar to where I was raised in the south end of Laguna Beach, beginning of Dana Point. We had satellite dishes across an empty lot honing in on conversations that we were having as a family. Privacy was a thing of the past.

We would have to go down to the beach in order for us to be able to communicate with one another. My suggestion, my advice, my passion now for this family, because there may be a criminal here. There`s also victims, but, needless to say, there`s two deaths, tragically, and there are families involved.

My strong suggestion, really, is to find that inner peace within yourself, because people are going to be speculating. People are going to be placing high expectations on you. Look at this family. I can`t believe they`re out there smiling. I can`t believe they`re crying.

PINSKY: I want to interrupt you and say -- Sandra and I are speculating about this gentleman, Jonah and what his previous marriages were like. I`m sure people are looking at his picture going, I don`t like that guy. But to get back you real quick, you had to grieve much, much later, didn`t you, over Nicole?


PINSKY: And so, wouldn`t you advise anyone who`s involved to this family to please get on with the grieving process and don`t let this distract you?

BROWN: Absolutely. Don`t bury the pain. As I was talking to your producer yesterday, do not bury this pain, because like you said, Dr. Drew, yes, I even wrote a chapter on a book because of it is that it bit me in the butt 10 years later, and I say it like that. I say it emphatically. Ten years later, I found myself in a psyche ward for 10 days and in an outpatient program for 2 1/2 months, and it was a blessing in disguise that it all happened from the cancellation of my wedding four days prior.

PINSKY: Oh-oh.

BROWN: But it was a major trigger that saved my life. I had pills in one hand. I had a bottle of wine in the other. My message to the people who are all involved in this, you`ve got to talk about it. You`ve got to talk about it, because I don`t want you to deny it, neglect it, because it can turn into violence, gambling, drinking, drugs, domestic violence, or in a psyche ward.

PINSKY: Well, thank you, Tanya. I appreciate those words of wisdom. And speaking of talking about it, Sandra, I guess we`re going to be talking about this for a while. This is not a story just likely to go away. What`s ahead? What are you looking into as we go forward? What should we -- what pieces of this puzzle do we need to put into place?

SANDRA ENDO, CNN REPORTER: Well, we need several things, Drew. We want, first, answers from law enforcement officials. They have not had or told us about one suspect, one arrest yet. And that is a big question surrounding the community, too. Neighbors that we spoke to just want some answers. Who did this? Any kind of guidance. What could be -- what can be found in terms of the investigation.

Police reports say that they want to wait for forensic reports, and that may take a matter of weeks. So, as you mentioned, it will take time. As for the family, we tried to reach out to, of course, the Shacknai Family, Jonah, his brother, anyone who would talk to us. Right now, their representative says nobody in the family is talking. Of course, they`re dealing with two deaths here, and of course, the burial of that little boy. So, clearly, a very tragic time for them.

PINSKY: And Mark, going to you, just to close this out, what do they need to do to protect themselves? I mean, do they have to lawyer up now?

MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, yes. And that`s not what anyone wants to know. They want the truth. But, I would have everybody, you know, involved, the potential persons of interests, which to me means suspects, lawyer up, but that being said, I want know the truth. And I think the truth is going to come out from the DNA in this case.

This is not like the Casey Anthony crime scene. You`ve got fresh potential DNA, fingerprints around the bounding area, the legs. You`re going to find, I think, some stuff that`s going to reveal who might have been involved.

PINSKY: Right. We definitely have a cause of death. We have a body, and it`s all fresh, as you say. And we will be continuing to follow the story.

Now, when we come back -- thank you to my panel, Mark, Tanya, Sandra, I really appreciate it.

When we come back, did he commit an unforgivable crime? The strange case of polygamist, Warren Jeffs. There he is.

Now, completely change gears here with you. Before we go to break, I want to tell you about something that makes the tech nerd in me very, very happy, you can watch us or other HLN programs and CNN shows -- there`s mark, look at that -- live anywhere. We`re streaming on iPad, iPhone, iPad touches.

Just go to, click on the live tab, and log in to your cable and satellite provider. We will see you there or anywhere, live at no additional charge. So, do it during the break, and I`ll see you on the other side of the break.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell the family I will not be calling anymore.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a test. You are the prophet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not a test. This is a revelation. Who is never his servant, I say farewell again to all who qualify for Zion.


PINSKY: Tonight, the trial for notorious polygamist leader, Warren Jeffs, begins in just five days. Jeffs will stand trial on two counts of sexual assault on a child and one count of bigamy. The charges against Jeffs stems from a massive 2008 raid of a remote Texas ranch.

The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, also know as the FLDS, held a church retreat here where authorities say underage girls were being forced to marry older polygamist men. Hundreds of children were removed. Listen to this and then we`ll talk.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d like to announce the arrest of FBI top 10 most wanted fugitive, Warren Steve Jeffs. Jeffs was wanted for the alleged sexual assault of a minor in 2002.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The state reveals as many as 11 underage girls were pregnant or married. These records were locked in a safe during the raid on that compound.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had 52 young women from the ages of 17 to 6 months of age that we have taken from the compound.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have there been any children in here at all since the raid?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is another bedroom. Several older girls live in this bedroom, and they have taken them as well.


PINSKY: I cannot get over how much I feel like I`m watching an episode of "Big Love" when I watched this footage. You`re looking there at a photo of Jeffs with a 12-year-old child bride. Oh, my goodness. If convicted, the 55-year-old gentleman faces life in prison.

Let us go straight to my guests, Attorney Loni Coombs is here with me again. Laurie Allen, producer of the film "Banking on Heaven," and she an ex-member, and Michael Board, reporter for WOAI Newsradio. Michael, can you tell us what the latest is?

MICHAEL BOARD, REPORTER WOAI NEWSRADIO: Well, Warren Jeffs has done everything in his power to put off this trial. He`s hired, he`s fired lawyers. He`s accused the judge of bigamy. He`s tried to get this trial moved out of Schleicher Town, the Tom Green County in Texas. He`s done everything he could to get this trial, you know, put off.

The problem is, he ran into a judge here in Texas, Judge Barbara Walther, who says, no, we`re having none of that. Forget it. No messing around. The lawyers, you all are staying in place. We`re doing this trial. We`re starting this on Monday. So, this Monday, there`s nothing stopping this. We`re going to go ahead with this. He is going to face two charges, one of sexual assault, one of aggravated sexual assault.

The aggravated sexual assault is because one of his victims, like you said, is 12 years old. This is a guy who is 50 at the time. So, if you can imagine a 50-year-old man and a 12-year-old girl together, conceiving a child. That`s what we`re looking in this case. And it`s -- to tell you the truth, it`s gross. I mean, it`s just disgusting when you think about it.

PINSKY: Oh, categorically disgusting. Where is Mark with my Pepto- Bismol? All right. Now, Michael, women who say they escaped from the FLDS call it a cult and have described their lives there as a never-ending nightmare. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was orphaned at age three and sent to live among the polygamists until I escaped when I was 16. I know what it`s like to live on the inside and have to escape. We were all victims of abuse. But for every woman or child who escaped, hundreds more were trapped and broken.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The biggest problem in fundamentalism is Warren Steve Jeffs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He took her braid and he twisted and he twisted it and he twisted it. She was on her knees begging him to stop. And then, he said, men, I want you to know this is how you need to treat your wives.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I worked my way up to low self-esteem coming out of there.


PINSKY: Laurie, that was a clip from your film "Banking on Heaven." Can you tell us about your life there? I understand you were not raised in the FLDS, but you went to school there and you were in a different polygamous sect. Is that correct?

LAURIE ALLEN, FORMER MEMBER, LEBARON POLYGAMOUS SECT: Yes, that`s correct. I spent some months in Colorado City in the second grade. My family has a ranch near there. My grandmother met my grandfather in Colorado City. They`re all polygamous. They`re all connected. We`re all cousins. Carolyn Jessop who wrote the best-seller "Escape" is my cousin.

So, we`re all connected. We`re all descendants of Benjamin F. Johnson and the fundamentalist of Mormons who started back in the 1800s. But I will say, Dr. Drew -- excuse me?

PINSKY: Go ahead.

ALLEN: I was going to say that growing up in these communities is just hell on earth. I mean, I never finished the third grade growing up. I have aunts, dear aunts, who live in trailers in fields because they got out later in life and never had an opportunity. What they do to women and children in these cults is just crimes beyond -- against humanity. I mean, there are over 350 polygamist cults in the state of Utah alone. And I personally would like to know why do they give these outlaw a religions tax exempt status, number one.

And number two, why, even Attorney General Terry Goddard says in my film "Banking on Heaven," 80 percent of that cult is living on welfare, and over 4,000 of them are on state access, collecting benefits. $20 million to $30 million a year goes into that town, and that`s taxpayer money.

And where do they get enough money when they can`t even support their wives and kids to buy a 1,700 acre ranch in El Dorado, Texas? The lavish temples and outbuildings. They`re getting all that money because the taxpayers in Arizona and Utah are supporting the whole town. Hello.

PINSKY: Hello is right. That`s one little piece of it. The other hello is there is horrible abuse and exploitation of women and children. After the 2008 raid, hundreds of children were taken away from their parents. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do not know why they have my children. No one has told me anything, except for maybe this and maybe that, and it`s because of this, but no one has confronted me and said, this is why.


PINSKY: So, at the time, I remember when this all went down, I wondered is it right to take kids that are already traumatized and traumatize them again by taking them away from their parents. Michael, some returned to the compound and were happy to be given back, I guess. Can you give me a quick update on those children?

BOARD: You know, we don`t have a lot of information about them. It`s hard to get information about what exactly goes on, on the yearning for Zion Ranch. You know, obviously, skittish about letting anybody on there these days. We don`t know a whole lot about them. We know some mothers have left the ranch and are living -- some are living in San Antonio.

I know that for a fact, and they`re living now with their children out of the ranch because they have not been let back on, but the psychological damage that has been done to these kids, it`s amazing. You know, when I have been covering this story over the years, my friends have asked me, they`ve said, you know, what is it like to actually meet one of the women from the compound in person?

Are they as weird as they seem on TV? Because you see them on TV, and they -- you know, they dress differently. They have different hair styles. They talk in a different manner. So, my friends would ask me, are they the same when you meet them? Are they different? Is that just the TV? And I`ve tried to describe it like this.

When you meet the women who are on the compound, on the yearning for Zion compound, that`s what I`ve had experience with, you look into their eyes, and it`s really like they don`t have a soul behind their eyes. Just all of the emotions have been emotionally beat out of these women that it`s almost creepy to sit in the same room and talk with them.

PINSKY: Right. Right. And, you know, my question to you is, you know, any reasonable person looks at this and goes, oh, come on. And now I know I`m a fan of the show "Big Love," and so, I understand. They show all sides, the pros and the cons and make them humans, but still, how does the legal system allow this to go on?

LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: You know, it`s essentially three things. One is this is cloaked in religious freedom. They say this is our religion. We want to have the right to have whatever religion we want and practice it the way we want. So, people --

PINSKY: I`ve got to look in 20 seconds.

COOMBS: The second thing is the laws are not really specifically addressed to go after this type of crime.

PINSKY: All right. And the third thing?

COOMBS: The third is, who`s going to testify? These 12-year-olds who have no support from anyone? Their mothers are pushing them into these marriages. So, how do they stand up for themselves?

PINSKY: We may start with that next, because Laurie may have an answer to that next, because she`s actually been one of those kids and been around those kids certainly. My guests will stay with me.

Coming up, more on the upcoming Warren Jeffs` trial. We`re going inside the polygamist leader`s controversial church. You will want to stay with us.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The woman if she`s not careful will be overbearing and always ask permission for what she wants. And, ladies, build up your husband by being submissive.




CAROLYN JESSOP, FORMER FLDS MEMBER: This is the man that this community worships as a god. I mean, he is their prophet. And he`s being allowed full access to children to injure them. And if that doesn`t put everybody child that he has, you know, where the parents believe he`s a prophet, if that doesn`t put every one of them at risk, I`d like to know what does.


PINSKY: Well, the story is sad on so many levels. Laurie, Carolyn Jessop, the woman we just saw there on that tape, is actually your cousin, as you said, kind of related. What has she told you about Warren Jeffs and how do women like Carolyn escape? Is it dangerous?

ALLEN: I tell you what, Dr. Drew, we should build a monument to Carolyn Jessop. I mean, this woman is a national hero, to have gotten out of there with her eight kids, one of them handicapped, have risked her own life, and she was married to the kingpin at YFZ ranch, and a best-selling author, she wrote the book "Escape." I mean, hello. This woman is brilliant, and how she did it, I don`t even know. I admire her so much, I cannot even tell you. But I`ll tell you --

PINSKY: Laurie, is it dangerous to get out of there? I mean, are they threatened in some way?

ALLEN: Yes. It`s very dangerous. It`s very dangerous. Carolyn was sabotaged. Some of her sisters and people that tried to help her get out, they had their cars rigged, I mean, to have accidents. You wouldn`t believe the things they`re doing over there to women and children.

PINSKY: Speaking of what they`re doing to children, Loni, what is this trial likely to look like? This is the sexual assault of a 12-year- old.

COOMBS: Right.

PINSKY: I mean, it`s apparent.

COOMBS: Right. Right. Well, what`s interesting is seven men that were also charged out of this raid have already been tried and convicted. And essentially, what they`re doing is doing it through DNA testing. So, they show that there is a child produced by this man and this child.

PINSKY: That`s it. It`s over. Case close, right? Why didn`t they plea bargain or something?

COOMBS: Because they`ve had a hard time in the past. These trials have never stuck, for some reason. But in Texas, boy, they`re going away for seven to 75 years on these sentences. And this judge, my hat is off to her. She`s the one who signed the search warrant for the raid. She is the one who has conducted every one of these trials. And she is really making sure that these cases are being taken care of.

But, you know, when you said was there threats made to them, one of the biggest things that keep these women in there is they`re threatened with their children.

PINSKY: The children. I know. They`re threatened with the children. And Laurie, let me ask you this. Loni brought something up before the break about who it is that`s going to come forward to pull the curtain back on all this? Who is that likely to be? Is that you guys that are out and have escaped?

ALLEN: Well, we`ve been out talking the talk for years. The thing is we can`t get the legislatures in Arizona or Utah to enforce the law. And these are powerful Mormon legislatures, mind you. Now, why is it that Texas can take all these guys down that have only been there for a few years, yet in Utah and Arizona, we can`t get anybody to do anything about a town that`s been there since the early 1900s? I just can`t understand it.

John McCain. John McCain, has been a premiere senator in Arizona for 20 something years. He never even mentioned Colorado City, has never lifted one finger to do a (INAUDIBLE) thing about that town. And all the abuse going on, the women and children, and the boys. What about the lost boys? Thousands of them all over the southwest.

PINSKY: Laurie, no doubt we`ll have you back. And Loni, thank you too for being here. We`ll have you back, too.

We`re really following this story. I`m a fan of that program "Big Love," which is, really, I feel like I`m watching an episode of that. It`s strangely art imitating reality here, but it`s uncanny how similar this all is. But, ultimately, this is not a fiction. As we started this program out tonight, this is reality, and it is disgusting. It`s got to stop.

Now tomorrow, my primetime special with Bristol Palin. You don`t want to miss it. We will stay on top. In the meantime, of the million dollar offer made to Casey Anthony. We reached out to her attorney, Jose Baez, haven`t heard anything back yet. We want to thank you all for watching. See you tomorrow.