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Dr. Drew
Casey Anthony Trial
Aired July 22, 2011 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST: Here we go. It`s the murder case that shook the nation. And unspeakable crime, epic investigation, and a sensational trial. Key players, provocative testimony, we will examine it all on this special edition of "Dr. Drew."
Tonight millions became enraptured with the story of Caylee Marie Anthony.
From the first days of the frantic search for the little girl all the way through the murder trial of her mother Casey Anthony, we have watched it all.
Our audience hoped for justice and looked for someone to hold responsible for Caylee`s death.
Tonight, a special edition of "Dr. Drew" after the not guilty verdict: Casey Anthony from jail to freedom.
Here are the best parts from our most provocative interviews with the key players in the state.
We spoke to Casey Anthony prosecutor Jeff Ashton in a primetime exclusive right after the stunning verdict came down.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: What happened? What do you think? What`s your gut tell you Casey did?
I mean because nobody believes she`s innocent. Nobody. You were there. You have been dealing with this for years. What do you think happened?
JEFF ASHTON, PROSECUTOR, CASEY ANTHONY TRIAL: I think, you know, exactly what I said in closing arguments what I think happened. I mean that the beauty of being a prosecutor you never have to argue something you don`t honestly believe. And I what we argued is what we believe actually happened.
Why do you need three? You need three because your purpose is not to simply silence the child. Your purpose is to make sure the child cannot breathe.
The first piece goes over the mouth. But that doesn`t secure the nose. The second piece goes over the nose. But you could still have gaps, so you have to be thorough. You have to have three.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I want to ask you a bit about the defense. They didn`t spend a lot of times poking holes in your theories.
In other words, they didn`t attack that hypothesis, did they? They came up with your own theories they had to prove but then didn`t.
ASHTON: Right. They never really addressed the duct tape. They never really gave any suggestion of a reason why you would duct tape even a dead child.
I always felt that when you look at the photographs and I know the photographs haven`t been made public without blurring, which I`m glad they haven`t. But my feeling was always if you look at that photograph of how the body was found, where the tape was, the skull. To me I couldn`t look at that --
PINSKY: It tells a story.
ASHTON: It does. And if it didn`t tell the jury the same story it told me, so be it.
PINSKY: Interesting.
Now, we all in the public and press have certainly got all this information about this. Let`s call it unsavory behavior, problematic behavior. Do you think that the jury really got that picture? Did they able to see that kind of data as well?
ASHTON: Well, we did everything we could to make sure they did.
If they didn`t see it, it was because they didn`t feel it was important. I mean, we certainly gave them weeks of testimony going through everything that Casey did. That was part of the purpose of the initial closing argument that I did was to show that these imaginary people were created for a reason.
Each creation had a purpose and each new wrinkle to the lie obtained something for her. So to kind of make it -- to show the jury that this wasn`t a fantasy, this was a calculated attempt to, you know, accommodate facts with lies.
PINSKY: It wasn`t just random lying. If it is lying, it was premeditated lying.
Jose Baez claimed this was an accidental death that Caylee drowned in the swimming pool and George Anthony helped covered it up.
He also alleged George molested Casey from a young age. Did not however, present one piece of evidence to back up these.
Take a look at George Anthony defending himself against them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever sexually molested your daughter Casey Anthony?
GEORGE ANTHONY: No, sir.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jeff, we`re interested today in this disconnect between what the jury seemed to have seen and what the court of public opinion believes.
Do you think that having George and Cindy on the stand helped things or hurt things?
ASHTON: Well, I think it helped in the sense of they had additional evidence for their -- the jury that could have helped them. I think it was important for the jury to see George especially based on the opening statement.
I think it probably helped the public understand George and Cindy a little bit better. Because there were times early in the case when they were, I think, unjustifiably reviled by a lot of people. I think maybe it allowed them to be seen more clearly, though not perfect.
But yes. It helped. You know Cindy Anthony had something for everyone, something for both sides. So it was an interesting mixed bag.
PINSKY: Yes, she indeed did. She kind of pulled a fast one on you, I guess.
And Lee kind of did too, didn`t he? Tell me why.
ASHTON: Lee had always before that been cooperative. Not necessarily, you know, enthusiastic about giving testimony that might convict his sister, but he`d always been cooperative.
But when he took the stand, he was just completely -- he had to be -- his recollection refreshed on virtually everything. Then he took the stand for the defense and gave -- said things he`d never said before. And twisted them in such a way that he had not in the past. He was the biggest surprise of all the Anthony`s.
PINSKY: I got to say. I had a funny feeling watching him on the stand when he was sobbing and crying. I`ve seen a lot of brother/sister relationships. I`m just trying to understand these things.
And you know, so his sister didn`t tell him she was pregnant. Most brothers would be like I can`t believe you. Are you kidding me? As opposed to woe is me. It bothered me.
ASHTON: In deposition when he talked about the same facts, it was exactly that attitude. It was like yes you know it wasn`t that big a deal. That was their issue, not mine. He was very matter of fact about it. Then on the stand he had the water works starting to flow. Which, you know, I found a little difficult to buy.
PINSKY: I found it this un-genuine. I really do.
This thing has consumed your life for three years and it`s ending with you retiring and people holding up Ashton for president signs.
How does that al feel?
ASHTON: The support that Frank and Linda and I got from the community was fantastic. People were stopping us and everywhere you know wanting to tell how good a job we were doing and that was great.
There were times when however, it almost became like a sporting event.
And those were the times I almost wanted to say to people you know it`s not a sporting event. You don`t root for a team. We`re here for a bigger purpose than that.
So sometimes it went a little weird, honestly.
PINSKY: But that`s a great place to end this conversation. Which is it is our constitutional system. It is working. There`s something bigger at work here.
And everybody, please if you`d like to give a shout out -- get people to calm down.
ASHTON: Everybody just needs to turn the energy that they have into something positive.
You know if you want to do something to honor Caylee then do something to help other children. Don`t try to turn it into rage. Turn it into something positive. Because that`s -- that honors her. Anything other than that dishonors her.
PINSKY: And let`s all remind ourselves, there is a beautiful little girl at the center of this story. It`s what has us all so affected.
And a mother`s behavior that we all find completely unacceptable, yes, we all find that unacceptable. But let`s love our children. Do our job as parents. Let`s go out and help other kids.
I agree, Jeff. It`s a great place to end this conversation.
Thank you so much for joining us. I really do appreciate it.
And coming up, Casey`s ex-fiance finally speaks about loving Casey and Caylee.
Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSIE GRUND, CASEY ANTHONY`S EX-FIANCE: I treat the Casey that I was engaged to like she`s dead. She doesn`t exist anymore.
This person would run around, laughing in the courtroom while her murder trial is going on, and done everything that she done.
I don`t know her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: We wanted to find out who Casey Anthony really is from the people that knew her best.
Jesse Grund loved Casey. He was even engaged to her at one point.
But now Casey`s ex-fiance says he doesn`t recognize the person she`s become. Jesse helped raise Caylee when she was a newborn.
He even thought he might be her father. He was heartbroken when Caylee disappeared but got more upset when he felt people were trying to pin the crime on him.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Jesse, at one point you told the police that Casey Anthony were trying to framed you for the murder of Caylee.
Watch us over the tape.
JESSIE GRUND: I was told by an individual who was working with the Anthony family who had got to sit in on a couple of the attorney meetings that Casey was telling her attorneys and Cindy was backing her up on this that I killed Caylee. That I planted the evidence in the car. That I had access to the car because I had keys and that I was framing her because of my obsession with Caylee.
PINSKY: I mean Jesse, you were deeply involved with this girl and then this comes back at you. That must have been, like, earth shattering. No?
JESSIE GRUND: Reality shattering to hear somebody try and implicate me for murder. This was intentional. This was personal about going after me.
For three years. This has been going on and this has had nothing to do with seeing who we could implicate in this. This was about personally going after me. This was about individuals responsible for this frame job as I like to call it going after me and my family. Trying to discredit us. Trying to destroy us.
PINSKY: What do you think happened?
JESSIE GRUND: Obviously Casey was the last person to see Caylee alive.
PINSKY: Yes.
JESSIE GRUND: Obviously the evidence points to the fact that she took her body and put it somewhere in the woods. That`s what the evidence tells me.
PINSKY: OK.
And Richard, you wanted to ring in a bit here too. This is your chance. Please.
Your thoughts?
RICHARD GRUND. JESSIE GRUND`S FATHER: I will say this about Casey. Everybody has painted her out to be a monster.
Casey`s broken. It`s obvious that there`s something wrong. But I will tell you this.
When she was in our house for four or five days a week for over ten months, she was fun to have around. But I`ve listen to three years of the lynch mob mentality that she`s a monster. She`s not.
She`s a person and there`s something`s wrong. Somebody didn`t love her enough to do something about it.
PINSKY: Jesse, were you surprised by the verdict?
JESSIE GRUND: I was shocked. I think it`s a better word than surprised, I was shocked.
This person as she stands today, I know little about the way she ticks.
PINSKY: How was your relationship? Was it a calm relationship? Was it a tumultuous relationship?
JESSIE GRUND: No. She was very quiet. She was reserved. She was very funny. She was fun to be around. It started out great. It was very passionate for lack of a better term.
However, I ended it soon afterwards just based on the fact that I was only 22 at the time. And I was still feeling like I need some more time to myself.
But we remained friends until notification that I was potentially going to be the father of her child.
PINSKY: And then when did you learn that this perhaps wasn`t your child?
JESSIE GRUND: Well, Dr. Drew, the math never really worked.
However, I did the diligent thing and got a paternity test done. Within two weeks of Caylee being born which told me that 100 percent probability I was not her father.
PINSKY: Did you ever find out who the father was?
JESSIE GRUND: She told me a story of a gentleman she had a one night stand with and didn`t want anything to do with Caylee`s life.
PINSKY: Did you know Casey to have a problem with lying when you were dating her?
JESSIE GRUND: She would exaggerate certain truths. She would do things to feel included, which I think stemmed from self-esteem issues she had when we were dating.
I saw the dynamic of that household. I saw the way that she was treated by certain members of that household. And that just kind of indicated to me she had been torn down to not think well of herself?
PINSKY: That was by mom, I imagine?
JESSIE GRUND: Yes, sir. It was a rough house. I wanted her out of there as quick as possible.
PINSKY: Just because of she and Cindy? Or was that also because of George?
JESSIE GRUND: It`s the whole family, sir. It`s every aspect of that family. It was constant negativity. It was watching past failures thrown in her face.
PINSKY: Give me an example of a past failure.
JESSIE GRUND: I`ve shared this story before. Obviously I will glad to share it again.
I was sitting on the sofa with Casey with Cindy in the room. We were watching a movie. And Casey and Cindy started a conversation -- actually, Cindy started the conversation that was more of an attack that started with when is you going to pay me back for the hospital bills.
Casey asked her not to continue the conversation because I was present and it wasn`t one that she didn`t want it in front of me. Cindy then blew up on her. Stood up pointed at me, pointed at me and pointed to Casey and said how could you ever want to be with somebody who`s a high school dropout, she`s got no future, she doesn`t have a good enough job to support her child, doesn`t have money to pay me back. Why would you want to be with somebody like that whose a failure?
PINSKY: Wow. How`d you respond? What did you say?
JESSIE GRUND: I responded the way Cindy Anthony did not want me to respond. I stood up and defended Casey.
I told her that she would never ever talk about her like that in front of me ever again.
PINSKY: I understand that Casey actually brought up with you the issue of Lee possibly having possibly done something to her.
JESSIE GRUND: Yes. Well, actually she didn`t bring it up Dr. Drew. She - I had to pry it out of her.
When Caylee was born and we brought her to the house, Lee acted very awkward around me. He wouldn`t say anything to me. He wouldn`t look me in the eye. When he did, he was scowling at me. He seemed angry at the fact I was with Casey.
He`d never met me before. Casey did not want to have Caylee around Lee at all.
So finally one day we were in the nursery and I had to pry this information out of her.
I asked her why is Lee not taking an interest in Caylee. He`s the uncle. He should be doing things.
She said I don`t feel comfortable with him around her.
I said why do you feel uncomfortable?
She said I don`t want to talk about it.
I said why don`t you want to talk about it?
She said "I don`t want to talk about what happened. It`s not important."
This, I had to sit there and ask her repeatedly until finally she said my brother has tried to have to have sex with me before.
What am I supposed to say to that? My first response is shock followed by anger.
I continually ask her what you mean her brother tried to have sex with you.
And she divulged to me the fact she would wake up in the middle of the night and he would be standing over her watching her sleep.
PINSKY: Did you think something more than going on than the standing over and touching business?
JESSIE GRUND: Well, there was more.
Obviously, you kind of touched on it. The groping issue that she woke up in the middle of the night and he`d be groping her while she was sleeping.
Did I ever suspect there was more than that? I was so disgusted from the very thought of Lee trying to possibly sleep with Casey, according to what she told me. I was so disgusted by that fact I wanted out of that conversation as quick as possible.
PINSKY: Coming up, some of the most powerful evidence against Casey was her bizarre behavior while Caylee was missing, partying, lies, and tattoos.
We will hear from one of her friend who witnessed it all next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: Do I forgive whoever has her and that I want her to come home.
I want my baby back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHTON: When Casey is faced with a problem, her solution is to change her life, to modify it.
Casey is very bright.
You can`t take any of that away from her. She`s very smart. And her lies are very detailed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: While little Caylee was missing, Casey partied.
And of course got that infamous "velo vita"(ph) tattoo.
I spoke to a young man who witnessed Casey`s bizarre behavior during that time period.
Clint House was the roommate of Casey`s then boyfriend, Tony Lazarro.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: You testified about Casey and her actions with -- interaction with Caylee as a mom. Watch this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever see Caylee malnourished?
CLINT HOUSE, TONY LAZARRO`S EX-ROOMMATE: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you see Caylee neglected in any way?
HOUSE: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever see Casey strike Caylee at anytime?
HOUSE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever see Casey -- I`m sorry -- treat Caylee as if she were a burden or negative?
HOUSE: No. Not at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you say she was a good mother?
HOUSE: Yes, I would.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: So, Clint, given that your observations were that she had at least seemingly normal in her actions with Caylee, what about this theory she wanted Caylee out of the way so she could party? What did you think of that?
HOUSE: I really don`t know.
PINSKY: I would think if somebody had told me that a friend of mine had lost their child and that everyone was saying that he or she had done so they could go party, I`d have a pretty clear idea about whether or not I thought that was probable or not.
How come it`s so hard with her?
HOUSE: Well, it`s because of all the lies that she told. And it`s because of all the lies that she told me and the rest of my friends like Tony and Cam and Nate.
You know we were all under the impression that she had a job at Universal Studios and she was getting back into school. I mean, I think that`s what it boils down to, just all the lies.
It was after all this went down. It was after she was actually arrested that we started unearthing and finding out that, you know, nothing that we knew was the truth.
PINSKY: I think I hear you reacting in a way that so many of us have to Casey which is that her lying is so outlandish, so phenomenal that you begin thinking this chick is capable of anything.
Is that sort of what you`re thinking?
HOUSE: Yes, it is. It is. I mean, they were just outrageous lies and right to us.
We were all under the impression she was working and that Caylee was where she said she was. And now, like I said, it was just outrageous lies after lie.
PINSKY: Is there a possibility she had an accomplice in all this?
Did you ever get that sense? You know what I mean?
I keep wondering about that. Do you have any theory about that?
HOUSE: I don`t really have a theory. You know, it`s not really my place for me to speculate on something like that. The fact of the matter is a little girl is dead now, and where is her justice?
And what can we do now to make sure that something else like this doesn`t happen again?
PINSKY: Coming up, a woman who hung out with Casey inside the Anthony home.
And she spills her secrets to us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: We are looking at the people, the key players in the saga of Casey Anthony.
Later, what the case and the show is really all about. Little Caylee Anthony.
But next, the woman who lived in the Anthony home and witnessed firsthand the dynamic between Casey and her parents, Cindy and George.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOICE OF DET. YURI MELICH, CASEY ANTHONY INTERROGATION: Everything that`s coming out of your mouth is a lie. Everything. And unless you start getting the truth, unless you start getting the truth, we have two possibilities with Caylee. If you gave Caylee to someone and you don`t want someone to find out because you think (INAUDIBLE) or something happened to Caylee and Caylee is buried somewhere or in a trashcan somewhere and you had something to do with it, either way right is not a very pretty picture.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: No, it is not. Casey Anthony served three years in jail before she was released after being found not guilty of murder. But before that, she was at home with her parents still claiming her daughter had been kidnapped by a fictitious woman named Zani the nanny. Tracy McLaughlin was hired as a security for Casey and spend days with Casey inside the Anthony home. She took us behind the wall to the Anthony hose and inside Casey`s secret life, including an odd first impression. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRACY MCLAUGHLIN, LIVED WITH ANTHONYS IN 2008: Casey was the happiest, nicest person I`ve ever met.
PINSKY: Slow down. People are going to be surprised to hear this.
MCLAUGHLIN: OK.
PINSKY: Happy and nice?
MCLAUGHLIN: Happy, nice, charming. I expected -- I got to her house maybe two minutes before she did from jail. I`m sitting on the couch thinking this is going to be the most awkward moment of my life because it`s a horrible situation. And everybody sitting in there, well, Casey walks in, George and Cindy are there, and she looks over, and she said, oh you`re the babysitter, and she came over and gave me a hug.
And then, Cindy hugged her. You know, hi, dad (ph). Lee was there. There was no crying. There was no urgency. Let`s go find Caylee. Let`s look for something. Casey`s hair smelled from being in jail so she took a shower, and then, we got out and planned dinner. She wanted her --
PINSKY: Did the family say what`s going on with Caylee?
MCLAUGHLIN: No. I think Cindy had said let`s handle this delicately.
PINSKY: So, maybe, it was because you were there they weren`t going to talk about it?
MCLAUGHLIN: No. I think because they knew what they were dealing with with Casey. They weren`t going to get the truth out of her. As I stayed there, I figured it out. You had to just treat her with kid gloves.
PINSKY: And if you treaded on her lies, would she react with outrage?
MCLAUGHLIN: She would close up, and she would -- yes. You know, don`t tell me I`m a liar. I`m the only one who knows what happened.
PINSKY: And she`d get enraged.
MCLAUGHLIN: Enraged. The first morning I was there, I woke up to George screaming at Casey.
PINSKY: First morning?
MCLAUGHLIN: Very first morning.
PINSKY: What was he screaming about?
MCLAUGHLIN: Where is my granddaughter? What have you done with her? I know you`re lying. Quit lying to me. Where`s my granddaughter? And she`s screaming back, don`t treat me like a scum bag cop. Why don`t you try being a father for once? It`s a huge fight. Well, she comes in the bed, I was in her room.
So, she came in there and just mad because she said my dad won`t -- he always treats me like he`s a cop. He always thinks I`m lying. Why did he tell you things about that? Cindy came in and she said, George, we promised we wouldn`t do this to her. You got to leave. So, George had a friend, Jim, that was staying with him, and they took off on a weekend on one of the Caylee -- not missions.
PINSKY: Hunts.
MCLAUGHLIN: Hunts.
PINSKY: Looking for Caylee.
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
PINSKY: So, George, from your perspective, it seemed like he had no idea what was going on, except he had a hunt --
MCLAUGHLIN: He knew something was -- I think George knew something was really wrong.
PINSKY: But this whole idea the defense put forward.
MCLAUGHLIN: That was horrible. I have no doubt that he has never touched Casey. I don`t think lee has. Maybe not too sure about that one. I asked her at one point, how can you not be upset with all this going on?
PINSKY: Right.
MCLAUGHLIN: She said I just can`t let this negativity get to me. I just can`t let that happen.
PINSKY: Did you follow along with any questioning?
MCLAUGHLIN: What do you say to that?
PINSKY: Yes, it`s so bizarre.
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
PINSKY: And my understanding also you said to me once that if you knew her for ten minutes, you`d know something is very, very wrong. What would I find out? What would I know? What would I feel?
MCLAUGHLIN: She`s empty. I don`t even know. There`s something in her eyes. She`s empty. She`s like she wanted excitement. Little bit of excitement she could have. You know, she wanted to play in her bedroom. She`s very immature. She wanted to play in her bedroom. Put on clothes that matched. She had her ankle monitor so she wanted me to wear a wristwatch around my ankle, which I did. I played along with everything that she did.
PINSKY: So, she was very, very childlike?
MCLAUGHLIN: Very childlike.
PINSKY: My understanding is you feel that George had nothing to do with any of this stuff?
MCLAUGHLIN: I don`t think that George did.
PINSKY: And he didn`t know that the child has drowned. He didn`t know that --
MCLAUGHLIN: No.
PINSKY: He wasn`t involved in a cover up.
MCLAUGHLIN: No.
PINSKY: He hadn`t touched --
MCLAUGHLIN: I think he knew Caylee was dead only because when they found the car, and they hadn`t seen Casey and Cindy did try to find her. I mean, she`s an adult. She can take her child wherever she wants to, and Cindy knew that. But when they found the car, they smell that decomposition, and they open the trunk. They see that garbage bag. And I`m sure for a minute, an hour, whatever, their mind was tricked.
It`s like, oh, I thought it was a body. It`s a garbage bag. But when they got home and down Casey and there`s no Caylee, that`s when Cindy`s 911 call happened. I think George -- I think Cindy was in denial, but I think George knew something really bad had happened.
PINSKY: My understanding is also she brought up chloroform with you.
MCLAUGHLIN: Uh-huh.
PINSKY: Tell us about that.
MCLAUGHLIN: It was very short. We were watching an episode -- I don`t watch much TV. I think it was a Hills. Teenagers drinking at a bar.
PINSKY: Yes.
MCLAUGHLIN: We were talking about getting drunk. She said, you know, she liked to drink. She had fun. She liked to party. And I said have you ever heard of GHB. And she said, yes like roofies. And then said, yes, like eater (ph), and she said chloroform.
PINSKY: You also observed her reacting to bones being found in the park as opposed to on bones were found --
MCLAUGHLIN: I didn`t observe that. It upsets me. I don`t know. This is just, I guess, my opinion. When there`s a Texas Equusearch -- huge. You know, thousands of people out there searching for Caylee. Leonard took it upon himself during that search to have divers go out to the Blanchard Park because of some of the things that she said to me. I thought that maybe -- I thought that Caylee was under water because of a song that we listened to every day.
It`s called "The Pass" by Sevendust. I don`t remember the lyrics. I wish I could remember what they were, but it`s something about beneath the water, and then, something else I hope it doesn`t scream my name. I`ve erased the past again.
PINSKY: Wow! That`s spooky.
MCLAUGHLIN: It was spooky, but she was in jail, and this was reported that we`re out there. The media tells that we found bones at Blanchard Park. Well, they lockdown the jail, and they put -- you know, she has to go back in and reports, and it`s probably videotaped through the jail. She did a little smirk, walked back in her cell, and it was no big deal.
Now, when the body was found on suburban drive, she had a meltdown. She hyperventilated. She had to go to the medical doctor. This is all reported.
PINSKY: Yes. Right.
MCLAUGHLIN: To me, that says, OK, Casey and only Casey knew where that body was. If she didn`t know, why wouldn`t the Blanchard Park bones - -
PINSKY: Very, very suspicious.
MCLAUGHLIN: In my opinion, that`s something the jury should have heard.
PINSKY: There`s so much the jury didn`t hear. So, what do you think is going to happen next?
MCLAUGHLIN: I think she`s going to get out.
PINSKY: Yes. Is she in danger?
MCLAUGHLIN: Oh, probably.
PINSKY: Yes.
MCLAUGHLIN: They`ll probably hide her for awhile, but she`s not going to put up with that for very long. She wants to be out. She`ll want to be on TV. She loves the media. When I stayed there, she would be upset if there were clouds or the hurricanes because the helicopter wouldn`t be able at the house (ph). We counted the vans in front of the house every day. And at one point, this was when Rob and I were driving her, and she said, oh, I know what Jose and I could do.
We could go on the Howard Stern show. We could get some information out about Caylee, and then she laughs. And she said, no. He`d want to know what my bra size was, and if Jose was hitting it. It was just funny to her. Everything was funny.
PINSKY: It`s sort of sickening, isn`t it?
MCLAUGHLIN: It`s really sickening, but she didn`t want to be bothered with anything about Caylee. Not a tear. Not a deep sigh. It was almost an annoyance.
PINSKY: Well, you`re someone that has spent time with her and very few people have. What do you think went down? What happened?
MCLAUGHLIN: What I think happened is she got in a fight with her mom. Cindy confronted her about stealing money from her grandmother. I think that`s coming out a little bit right now, but she got in a fight. I do believe she used chloroform. And in a fit of anger -- this is where I can`t guess if it was accidental. I mean, who should be putting chloroform to their child`s mouth in the first place?
PINSKY: Right.
MCLAUGHLIN: Accidental or on purpose. Put it in there.
PINSKY: And then, she, herself, disposed of the body?
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes. Well, she kept her in her trunk. To me, it`s so easy to figure out. Kept her in trunk, panicked, brought it back to the house, that`s when the duct tape went on, and that`s when the heart sticker because -- kidnapping, that`s what I`m going to do. That`s what she thought about. You know, had it in a trunk bag so it wasn`t smelling like, you know, people -- some friends had been by her car and they said they didn`t smell it. Well, OK, it didn`t smell yet.
When George almost got to the trunk with her gas cans, and she threw the gas cans out of -- I think she panicked then. Went down to her little spot, threw the body out, I think, the bag ripped, and that`s when that`s, you know, horrendous, smell was strong.
PINSKY: Wow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
It is chilling to hear her tell it.
Coming up, George and Cindy, we can see the pain on their faces, but we heard their side of the story from their emotional testimony and through their lawyer. That`s coming up. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Do you recall in March of 2008, you doing any types of searches for any items that might include chloroform?
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: Yes. And I started looking up chloroform -- I mean chlorophyll, and then, that prompted me to look up chloroform.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY ANTHONY, ACCUSED OF KILLING HER DAUGHTER: My only concern is that Caylee comes back to us, and she`s smiling and she`s happy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where did you drop her off?
CASEY ANTHONY: I dropped her off at that apartment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you didn`t.
CASEY ANTHONY: That`s exactly where I dropped her off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And who`s you dropped her off to?
CASEY ANTHONY: With Zenaida.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you didn`t.
CASEY ANTHONY: Can someone let me -- come on!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get out of the way!
CINDY ANTHONY: Caylee was gone for 31 days.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Calm down!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever sexually molested your daughter, Casey Anthony?
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You should know better!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got to throw these lies out. OK. All these lies around. We know that everything you told us is a lie. Tell us what happened to Caylee.
CINDY ANTHONY: What do you want me to tell Caylee?
CASEY ANTHONY: That mommy loves her very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: George and Cindy Anthony went to hell and back. They lost their beloved granddaughter and then faced the emotional anguish of knowing that their testimony could have sent their own daughter to the death chamber. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: What`s it going to be like for George and Cindy? I mean, are they OK? Would they welcome Casey back if she were to come back? Can you tell us a little about that? People are very curious.
MARK LIPPMAN, ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: Sure. I can`t talk about what they would do if Casey came home or whatever she decides to do. I can tell you that they`re taking everything day by day.
CINDY ANTHONY: I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month. Her mother finally admitted that she`s been missing. She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself. There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How long has she been missing for?
CINDY ANTHONY: I have not seen her since the seventh of June.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is her date of birth?
CINDY ANTHONY: 8/9/2005.
One of the times I walked to the room, Casey was on the floor crying. And I overheard her tell Lee that Caylee had been gone for 31 days and that Zani had taken her.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Guys, just leave us alone. Do not follow us. Do not bother us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have anything to say about the new theory that Caylee might be dead. It might have been an accident.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Shut up! Shut up!
CINDY ANTHONY: I tell you one thing. That is the reason why I got a phone call at 11 o`clock last night. The lady was crying because of that kind of stuff on the news.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Let us go. Let`s go. Come on. Let`s go.
CINDY ANTHONY: Because she was afraid and they just spotted Caylee again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever see a photograph of Zani the nanny?
CINDY ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever speak to Zani the nanny?
CINDY ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you had no idea that Zani was not a real person?
CINDY ANTHONY: No, I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she described to you that Zani was -- looked like what?
CINDY ANTHONY: Over the course of the two years, Zani had gotten her hair cut several times, but when I first heard about her, she had long black hair and was very attractive.
LIPPMAN: Unfortunately, I can`t talk about what my client, George Anthony, thinks. Certainly, Casey, either through herself or through her attorney, made comments in that trial that as an outsider looking in, they`re as baseless as I`ve said before, there`s going to be some sort of showdown, I imagine, at some point where somebody is going to have to explain what those comments mean and where they came from.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever sexually molested your daughter, Casey Anthony?
GEORGE ANTHONY: No, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you present in your home when Caylee Anthony died?
GEORGE ANTHONY: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you dispose of the body of your granddaughter?
GEORGE ANTHONY: No, I did not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you see the duct tape that was there?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was your duct tape?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Could have been. Could have been someone else`s. I have no idea, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did anybody else bring Henkel brand duct tape to your commencer?
GEORGE ANTHONY: I have no idea, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You came from Ohio, right?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s the same place Henkel brand duct tape was made, right?
GEORGE ANTHONY: I have no idea where it was made at, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I take it that you did not tell them that you made those searches, correct?
CINDY ANTHONY: I did tell the law enforcement. In fact, I told you during my deposition 2009 that I made those searches.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You told me at your deposition that you searched for chlorophyll, correct?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you spelled chlorophyll for me.
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you recall that?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she become better at climbing the ladder of the pool?
CINDY ANTHONY: Oh, absolutely. Even at that point, she could climb into the pool. By herself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you at, any time, ever tell her not to say anything about your affair with her?
GEORGE ANTHONY: Sir, I never had a romantic affair with Krystal Holloway, River Cruz, or whatever name she wanted to give you or the world. Sir, definitely something happened to Caylee. She`s no longer with us. And Casey was the last one that I saw with Caylee. One and one adds up to two, sir, in my mind. And no matter how you try to spin it, I`m upset because my granddaughter is missing.
I don`t know where she`s at. I was told that a kid -- that someone had taken my daughter, forcibly removed her from my daughter or my daughter dropped her off at some house. I`m trying to put all the stories and information together, sir. Was I running on pure emotion and drive and demanding answers? That is my right as a father and a granddaughter.
And as what everyone has been it, was I upset and falling apart at the moment? Absolutely. My family was being torn apart. And for you to say that I was doing something wrong, sir, you`re wrong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Coming up, the little girl who won all our hearts. She is the reason we care so deeply about this case. We`re going to hear from Caylee in her own words, next. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SINGING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Well, we continue to wait with bated breath to see what Casey Anthony will do next. We spoke to television producer, Al Taylor, who claimed he met with Casey face-to-face at a Palm Springs Hotel to discuss a million-dollar interview deal. We just heard back from Casey`s Anthony, Jose Baez, who says, quote, "Neither I nor Casey Anthony have ever met with or have any intention of meeting with Al Taylor," unquote.
Now, listen, while we`re interested in finding Casey, we will let you know if there are updates, but we need to move on and get closure. And to do that, let`s remember what this is all about. One of the reasons we`re so invested in this case is because we`ve come to know Little Caylee Anthony. From the very first photo we saw of her resting her chin in her hands to last day alive, Caylee cuddling up in the lap of her great granddaughter at a nursing home on Father`s Day.
Photos and home videos have made Caylee Anthony real to us, and many people have said she reminds them of their little girls. Let`s remember Caylee in her own words.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(CAYLEE TALKING)
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caylee Marie, hey, look.
(LAUGHTER)
(SINGING)
(LAUGHTER)
(SINGING)
(CAYLEE TALKING)
(SINGING)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
END
