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Nancy Grace
Attorney Says Casey Anthony Wants Therapy
Aired July 25, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: Tonight, breaking news in the case of Casey Anthony. Just moments ago, I spoke with Casey Anthony`s attorney, Jose Baez, who told me, Look, the circus, it`s over, Casey Anthony wants to lead her life, and she wants to be in therapy. We are trying to get her in therapy.
And just as many have predicted, the media battles it out to get the first interview with Casey Anthony. Does Jose Baez become the proverbial ringmaster, as reports claim? Does Anthony`s lawyer hold court in New York City`s posh five-star Mandarin Orientel Hotel, mulling over the offers, some claim serious offers for interviews with Casey Anthony stretching over the $1 million mark.
Jose Baez says he is not negotiating paid interviews with anybody, but new reports are surfacing that somebody close to Casey Anthony is trying to hire a celebrity stylist for her and wants her to do the job for free.
Lawsuits against Casey Anthony -- they are piling up! But the key question remains, where in the world is Casey Anthony?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will she cash in on the publicity from this case and tell her story?
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I`m not going to give the media anything when I get out of here.
Well, I can`t point you in that direction when I`m literally at a standstill!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone paying her seven figures to tell her story.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People want to hear her voice.
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And people want to hear what she has to say.
CASEY ANTHONY: That sucks for them because I have nothing to say.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: You know what? I`m not a betting person, but if I were, I would bet she`s not going to turn into Mother Teresa.
JOY BEHAR, "THE JOY BEHAR SHOW": Would you let Casey baby-sit your kid?
CASEY ANTHONY: Are you kidding...
-- kidding...
-- kidding...
-- kidding me?
No, sir.
No, sir.
No, sir.
BEHAR: You say she`s innocent.
DOROTHY CLAY SIMS, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: Well, you know, my kids are older.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Little Caylee.
CASEY ANTHONY: Everything has been taken from me!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was wrapped in her Winnie-the-Pooh blanket.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not just give Cindy custody and walk away?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First-degree murder.
JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: Murder`s not right, no matter who does it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Aggravated child abuse.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Triple bagged and left here in this horrendous place.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Aggravated manslaughter of a child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the truTV network, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.
Just moments ago, I spoke with Casey Anthony`s lead attorney, Jose Baez, who told me, We are trying to get her into therapy. So I said, So you`re saying that Casey Anthony will agree to go to therapy? Absolutely, Jose said.
Straight out to Drew Petrimoulx, reporter for WDBO radio. Drew, in addition to that, initially, everybody was saying, Casey Anthony interview? No! No! But now it looks like everybody wants an interview with Casey Anthony. What`s the latest?
DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Well, it depends on who you ask here. There`s a couple of news agencies, "New York Post," TMZ, reporting that Jose Baez has been in New York in contact with network executives, representatives from ABC, NBC, CBS. If you ask Jose Baez, though, he says that he`s in no direct negotiations right now for any paid interviews and that Casey will not be doing that, at least for the foreseeable future.
Of course, he also adds that she is her own woman, and at some point, she may decide to do something like that. But he`s saying right now, it`s not as forward in the negotiations as some other news agencies have been reporting.
CASAREZ: All right. And he is saying there are a lot of falsities out there, too.
Alexis Tereszcuk, reporter for Radaronline, what are you hearing? Because you and Radaronline always know at the heart of the matter what is happening. Is there a bidding war going on right now for that first interview?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: Thanks, Jean. You know what? We`ve heard that there is. People are desperate to book Casey, but the thing is, they`re saying now there`s such a huge backlash against any network that would have her on and pay her, that people are saying they`re not going to pay her. They`re not going to license photos. They`re not going to license videos. It`s not going to be a paid interview. Whether or not that`s true, that`s what people are saying.
Even ABC has come out as a network and said, We`re not paying for this interview. We`re not going to do it anymore. It compromises the integrity of the interview, and that they may lose some interviews. But they`re fine with that. So maybe Casey is really changing things.
CASAREZ: Well, and that`s interesting. Can we believe that? Because Ellie Jostad, let`s look at the facts. First of all, there are ways to pay for an interview with some networks, not CNN, but some networks. There are ways to pay for an interview. How`s it done?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, right. The way that networks and other news organizations have gotten around this is they`ll license video, they`ll license home photos, and they pay for that. They`re not technically paying for an interview. It`s not like, If you sit down and talk to us, here`s $100,000. But they say, We want to run five minutes of this video you shot last Christmas, and we`ll pay you for that. So that`s how it typically works.
CASAREZ: You know, let`s go out to the lawyers right now. Gloria Allred joining us from Los Angeles, victims` rights attorney, Joey Jackson, defense attorney out of New York, and Richard Herman, defense attorney out of Las Vegas, Nevada.
Gloria Allred, I`ve spoken to a lot of people, and they say, Casey Anthony, I don`t want to hear it. I don`t want to hear what she has to say. And I say, But would you listen to that interview? And you know what they say? They would.
Don`t you think that it would command a lot of money and higher ratings than we`ve seen in years?
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Jean, I do think you`re right on all counts. I do think people will watch it. It will be a ratings bonanza, if, as and when it happens, and I think that it will. All the major network will not pay for interviews per se. Many, I`m sure, will pay a photo licensing fee or to license video, and that is pretty much a standard practice.
So I think it will happen, and many people who say they won`t watch will, in fact, watch. Maybe they won`t admit it, but they will.
CASAREZ: You better believe it. To Joey Jackson, defense attorney out of New York. And Joey, we want to tell everybody, we are taking your calls live tonight. But Joey, the defense is saying that it might be six to nine months. And Jose told me, Look, it`s all up to Casey. She`s her own person. She will decide if she wants to do it. Should she do it, Joey Jackson?
JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think so. Look, the time now, it`s prime for her to cash in on this, Jean. And it`s interesting when you say, We won`t pay for an interview, but we`ll pay for licensing fees. It`s sort of like Congress saying a tax increase or a revenue enhancement. She`s still getting paid.
The reality is, people are curious about this. People want to hear what she has to say. And I think even with the backlash, Jean, I think any publicity may be good publicity, and everybody will be watching. And so networks will certainly do it. We just have to find out which one gets it.
CASAREZ: You know, Richard Herman, what do you think about Jose Baez being allegedly at the heart of this? Remember, there are a lot of people out there right now to take (ph) Casey Anthony. And this is somebody -- you know, you always say, I trust him with my life, trust her with my life. She did trust him with her life, and he saved her life. Is he the one that should be negotiating this?
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. He walked the walk. He saved her life, and everyone has to tip their hat to him. So he`s the only guy that she trusts, and he`s doing everything he can. I`m sure he doesn`t even know half the things that he`s doing, but he`s trying to protect her. He`s probably trying to get the best deal.
But what he should do is let all these little lawsuits go, this Zanny the nanny defamation garbage lawsuit, all these lawsuits, the bounty hunter, everybody. Let them all sue her. She could file for bankruptcy then and wipe them all out. And then a few months down the road, let her cut a deal with one of the networks, a book deal, and she`s off and running and she`s going to have money.
Look, she needs income. She has no means of income, and I don`t know how she`s flying around. I don`t know where she`s staying, how she`s paying for it. Someone`s fronting the money, and they`re going to want to get paid back.
CASAREZ: All right, there`s somebody on the panel tonight that really disagrees with you. His name is John Dill. He is the attorney for Zenaida Gonzalez. You want an interview, too, and you want it free. It`s called a deposition.
JOHN DILL, ATTORNEY FOR ZENAIDA GONZALEZ: That`s right. We`ve been trying to depose Ms. Anthony for almost three years now. We filed our lawsuit in 2008, and we`ve been put off and put off. And now, hopefully, we`ll go in October. But I definitely want to interview Ms. Anthony.
CASAREZ: Well, here`s the issue, though. I mean, you obviously don`t believe that she should make millions of dollars off of this, but aren`t you in a better position if she does make a lot of money?
DILL: Like I said, when we filed this lawsuit, it wasn`t about the money. It still is not about the money. It`s about clearing our client`s name. Obviously, it would be better for our client if she has money when we collect a judgment, but that`s not our focus. I just want to take her deposition. We want to have our trial.
CASAREZ: All right, we`re going to the callers. Mauri in Idaho. Hi, Mauri.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean. Thanks for taking my call.
CASAREZ: You`re welcome.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First I have a question. For therapy to work, don`t you have to be honest and truthful about issues?
CASAREZ: Well, it`s a great question. And we`ve just learned this -- want to tell everybody, I just spoke with Jose Baez before air, and he says that interviews can wait. Casey Anthony wants to go into therapy, and they are working on that as we speak.
I want to go out to Leslie Seppinni, who is a clinical psychologist joining us from Los Angeles. Let`s talk about therapy. I mean, I don`t think anybody disagrees that Casey Anthony can use therapy, but what will they talk about and how will it work?
LESLIE SEPPINNI, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think the difficulty in her going to therapy is that because she has a characterological disorder like antisocial personality, it`s going to be very difficult to treat her. They are not honest in therapy, just like they`re not honest in the community. And usually therapy, individual therapy, does not work for people like Casey Anthony. It is group therapy, long-term cognitive behaviorial therapy that works, and I don`t see that happening here.
CASAREZ: So like, about six to nine months? Because Jose says there won`t be an interview for probably six to nine months. Is that the length of time therapy would take in this case?
SEPPINNI: In this case, absolutely not. It would take a long-term therapy of cognitive behaviorial group therapy. It would not be individual therapy. I think therapy for her would be more about coaching her as to how to behave in society and coaching her in terms of how she should express herself and what`s appropriate boundaries. That`s as far as therapy is going to go with her.
CASAREZ: To Woody Tripp, former police commander, polygraph expert, joining us from Atlanta. In the therapy that Casey Anthony would have, do you think she could have a change of heart about an interview? Because many say, Wait a minute, if you`re doing an interview, you`re making money off your daughter that died, and morally, people don`t believe that`s right.
WOODROW TRIPP, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: ... a change of heart. I mean, her past history in life exhibits itself as a sociopathic-type person. She partied before, and at some point. she`ll party again. Welcome to our justice system.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Frantic scene into the wee hours as Casey Anthony was released a free woman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is she back?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So do you think this is a setup today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I think it`s probably just Todd having some fun.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What she did next is still a mystery.
CASEY ANTHONY: Nothing else matters to me at this point.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A life tethered to a child.
CASEY ANTHONY: She is my only concern.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or a life free to be 22.
CASEY ANTHONY: Just as she was.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a party girl.
CASEY ANTHONY: I think it`s well worth it, well deserved.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does that set up motive? Casey never wanted her in the first place.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whose life was better without Caylee? Whose life?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are no offers for books, for movies, for interviews.
CASEY ANTHONY: Anyone that you guys want to bring in, I`ll talk to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first thing she said when we had the meeting was, Where`s my check?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know Mr. Baez is working in your best interests.
CASEY ANTHONY: That would be pretty much on the money.
-- money.
-- money.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Baez keeps a very tight rein on Casey.
CASEY ANTHONY: ... money.
-- money.
-- money.
GRACE: He has the lottery ticket.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace. Jose Baez telling me moments ago, the offers -- they can wait. Casey Anthony wants to go on with her life, but she wants therapy. She is agreeing to have therapy, he says.
I want to go out to Drew Petrimoulx, reporter for WDBO radio. Well, Casey Anthony may be going for therapy to get help, but her parents are on a vacation. What do you know about that?
PETRIMOULX: Well, apparently, her parents were spotted by some TMZ photographers shopping for clothes in the Bahamas. I remember last week, it was reported here locally that they were taking a trip to the Bahamas, paid for by somebody else. We don`t know exactly who. But her attorney, Mark Lippman, confirming that they were taking a short getaway.
It`s something we`ve seen them do before. You know, they were -- they went on a cruise at one point during this whole fiasco and got some criticism for that. But quite frankly, they`ve been through a lot, so you could understand why they would want to get away at least for a couple days.
CASAREZ: To Alexis Tereszcuk, reporter, Radaronline.com. You know, we`re hearing about this bidding war for Casey. What about George and Cindy? I mean, I think the American people would really like to hear what they have to say.
TERESZCUK: Absolutely. And people are very sympathetic towards them. They`re very concerned about George and Cindy. You know, they don`t work. They don`t have any money. They have spent all of their money trying initially to find Caylee, and then they haven`t had anything to do since the trial started and even before. It`s been three years since either of them have worked.
So people are definitely curious as to what they have to say. And I don`t know that there would be that much of a backlash if George and Cindy made any money from an interview, as there would be for their daughter, Casey.
CASAREZ: You know, talking about backlash, Gloria Allred, victims` rights advocate, joining us from Los Angeles, a lot of people are saying that the network that would even have Jose Baez on -- that there would be a backlash against the network. But I don`t think America has those feelings at this point toward Jose. It`s Casey, right?
ALLRED: Well, I think so. Remember, the People versus O.J. Simpson criminal case, where O.J. Simpson, who certainly was not popular in the court of public opinion -- still isn`t -- he was represented by Johnnie Cochran. And even after the acquittal of O.J. Simpson, Johnnie Cochran got to host his own television show.
And so I think that Jose Baez -- maybe he could be entertaining some offers. We don`t know. It wouldn`t be the same backlash, if there was one, as there would be against Casey Anthony.
CASAREZ: And what Gloria Allred is saying is that there are reports that Jose Baez is being courted to be a legal analyst on television.
Out to the callers. Christy in Utah. Hi, Christy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.
CASAREZ: Thank you for calling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just had a comment. As a mother of four and also as a citizen of this country, I just cannot believe -- I am appalled and I am disgusted that there are that many people out there that are willing to pay Casey Anthony all this money for her story. We`ve all seen what a liar she is in everything with this case. And I`m just really disappointed that there are that many people that cannot think a little harder about where this -- why is this money being paid to her?
And I don`t think there would be many people that would be appalled and outraged if Cindy and George did an interview. But don`t more people care about this money that they want to give to her and why? This really, really saddens me.
CASAREZ: You know, Christy, you`re not alone because that is the voice we`ve heard from people around this country, from the minute that verdict rang out, because people believed the evidence was there.
Woody Tripp, former police commander, joining us out of Atlanta, Georgia. I think Christy is echoing the sentiments of so many people.
TRIPP: Absolutely. There is such a backlash for Casey. And again, Casey`s not going to change. That`s obvious.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: After all she`s been through? You mean being acquitted on the murder of her daughter? What has she been through?
CASEY ANTHONY: What the hell is going on.
GEORGE: She`s been lounging in a private cell, having snacks that her admirers paid for.
CASEY ANTHONY: My entire life has been taken from me!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Freedom after three years behind bars.
CHENEY MASON, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: She`s got a tough road ahead of her and -- but she`ll make it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, people are dying to know her side of the story.
CASEY ANTHONY: That sucks for them because I have nothing to say.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just a matter of time before somebody shows enough money to Casey and Jose Baez, and Casey herself decides that they`re going to take it.
JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, FLORIDA DISTRICT COURT: Your decision and your decision alone.
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fifth Amendment right to remain silent, and people want to hear her voice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ship has sailed. Bottom line is, that`s just tough luck. It`s all over but the crying.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: It`s OK to cry, Casey. It`s all right, love.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace. We are taking your calls live. To Dolly in Ohio. Hi, Dolly.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean. Thanks for taking my call.
CASAREZ: You`re welcome.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My comment is about the therapy. The only therapy she needs is to be honest with herself and what she did to her child. That`s the only thing I have to say.
CASAREZ: And I think that`s what people want, right? That`s what they want therapy to be for, so she can go through these issues. We`ll never know about it.
To John Dill, joining us tonight. He is the attorney for Zenaida Gonzalez. I first want to ask you about Zenaida. How is she doing? And as she leads her life -- I mean, I just want to know, when she goes into the bank and they find out she`s Zenaida Gonzalez, do they say, Oh, you`re -- I mean, does everybody know her?
DILL: Well, unfortunately, yes. I mean, her name`s become a lot more popular now because of the trial and certainly all the things leading up to the trial. But she`s doing OK. She`s doing her best. But it`s -- again, she`s an innocent bystander who`s been brought into this by Ms. Anthony.
CASAREZ: Well, what`s the opinion that people have when they see her? Do they look at her as a victim, would you say? Or -- they obviously don`t think she`s a kidnapper.
DILL: Well, at the beginning, unfortunately, a lot of people did because of what Casey was saying. I think now a lot of -- there`s been a great outpouring of support for her, and we`re very thankful for that. But we`d like to have Ms. Anthony confirm that, in fact, that she has told these lies about her. And that hasn`t happened yet. A lot of people have talked about it, but Ms. Anthony has not.
CASAREZ: So if Casey Anthony doesn`t go to that deposition in your office on October 8, you can go to court. What can you do?
DILL: Have the court hold her in contempt and have her defenses in the case stricken. We`re not going to give up, even if she doesn`t show up. I know she doesn`t plan to show up. I hope she -- I think she doesn`t want to show up. But we`re going to get our answers from her.
CASAREZ: But to Joey Jackson, defense attorney. Here`s the issue. The defense has appealed the four counts of lying to a law enforcement officer. So since that aspect is in an appellate court, does she even have to show up to that deposition?
JACKSON: You are absolutely right, Jean. As a result of that, what she now has is a 5th Amendment right to be silent, and she will be until that`s exhausted. Another point, Jean. I would think Zenaida Gonzalez has been vindicated more than anyone. The fact is, is that if there`s one thing we know that Casey Anthony is guilty of, and that`s being a liar. Anything she says, we disbelieve. So whatever she might have said about Zenaida Gonzalez, we know it`s the opposite.
CASAREZ: All right, Richard Herman -- and you may want to think about this. But is there anything legally that Casey Anthony can do with the millions of dollars she makes so that all the people standing in line don`t get paid back?
HERMAN: Yes. She can file for bankruptcy before she cuts a deal with any of the networks or any of the publishers or anybody who`s looking to pile cash into her, get rid all of these creditors, clean them out. She has no assets, she has no income now. That`s what she should do, Jean.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The chase is on apparently to land the first interview with who? Casey Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first thing she said to me was, where`s the check?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: That would be pretty much on the money.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She wants that million-dollar check.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Just who is going to pay tot mom blood money?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No matter how much money I have someday --
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: An alleged $5 million deal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All I want to do is live comfortably.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Trying to get big bucks from the big networks?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Everybody wants to hear what she says --
GRACE: For more money, more money.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As it stands right now, she still has to deal with three different civil lawsuits against her.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Someone paying her seven figures to tell her story.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`ll do whatever the hell I have to.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In a well-lit hotel room somewhere.
GRACE: To get the highest bidder for tot mom`s tell-all.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Baez says they have not met with anyone representing a deal either and they don`t plan to.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST ANCHOR: I`m Jean Casarez in for Nancy Grace, thank you so much for joining us. We are coming to you live tonight. We`re taking your calls live.
Jose Baez saying minutes ago that interviews can wait, now it is time for Casey to get on with her life and that includes therapy.
To Drew Petrimoulx, reporter for WDBO, maybe Casey isn`t jumping on an interview in the next couple of weeks or so, but the reports are the interviews are coming in hard and fast and they`re six figures.
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Yes, we`ve heard that the three big networks, ABC, NBC, and CBS are battling it out. Of course when you talk to the network executives, they say that there`s no money on the table, that they`re not going to be paying for these interviews.
ABC is saying a new policy that they`re not going to even do licensing of the photos, which we talked about earlier, is the way that these networks have been able to get around no payment rules in the past.
So it will be interesting to see what happens because as we`ve talked about, there will be a backlash against anybody that pays her for these interviews. How big it will be and whether or not it`s worth it to that network will be key here, of course ABC already admittedly paid Casey Anthony $200,000 when this case first happened. And I would say that the backlash on that was pretty minimal. So it`ll be interesting to see now that the case is over whether -- how these agencies` way possibly paying Casey Anthony for this interview.
CASAREZ: You know, I really question that, Drew, everybody is saying that there would be a backlash for the network that does an interview with her.
But I really question that, Alexis Tereszcuk, reporter for radaronline.com. You know with some of the networks saying, we don`t want her, we don`t want the interview, I mean do you really believe that? I mean, or is that just appealing to the masses that say we`ll support you now because you don`t want the interview.
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: I think what people want is for Casey to tell the truth. They wanted her to testify. So they want to hear somebody question her. They want to hear in her own words what happened. So while they say there might be a backlash, people do want to hear her tell the truth and whether it`s Matt Lauer or Diane Sawyer, they want somebody that can really question her without anybody -- even without her lawyer there.
They want somebody that will really make her answer the questions that everybody wants to know, what happened to Caylee. So if somebody could actually get that interview and they could get the truth from Casey, that would be something people would really want to watch.
If she just lies about things and refuses to answer or says, I can`t say that because my lawyer told me not to say that, that`s not going to be a popular interview. They want to hear Casey tell the truth the same way they wanted to hear her testify.
CASAREZ: And you know, Alexis, you know what I think people want? I think they want to look at her. I would think they want to see what she looks like.
And Ellie Jostad, am I right or wrong, reports are saying that a stylist, a stylist may be coming on board to give her a new look?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Right. Right, there`s a tabloid report out there that she wants to bring in somebody to help her sort of rehabilitate her image. That she`s going lie low for a few months, then she`s going to come out, you know, with a new look.
We`ve seen this with other criminal defendants who have been acquitted or have gotten out of jail after serving their time. They do this interview, they tell their side of the story. And you know they try to tell it in the most favorable light.
CASAREZ: And Jose Baez is saying a lot of these reports, they`re absolutely false.
Out to Joyce in Tennessee, hi, Joyce.
JOYCE, CALLER FROM TENNESSEE: Hey, Jean, thanks for taking my call.
CASAREZ: You`re welcome.
JOYCE: I was wondering whether or not they will hook Casey up to a lie detector machine, because unless they do that, they will never know the truth, you know, even if they pay her all this money.
CASAREZ: You know, that`s an interesting thing. Jose is saying that what Casey wants to do Casey will do because she`s an adult. We`ve also heard him say, though, that anything she does will be dignified.
To Woody Tripp, former police commander, polygraph expert, what do you think? Do you think she should do something like that?
WOODY TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: Well, I think she should, as an honest law enforcement officer. I would be afraid that my instrument would catch on fire, testing her but I would love to.
CASAREZ: OK. To Leslie Seppinni, and I`m sorry I pronounced Seppinni, clinical psychologist --
LESLIE SEPPINNI, PSY.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You got it right.
CASAREZ: Good. I got it right. Out of Los Angeles. I`ll tell you what I`m really concerned about. The interview -- I don`t have an opinion on that. I`ll tell you what bothers me is the glorifying that there could be copycat artists out there, copycats saying, gee, if I don`t report my daughter missing, then maybe I too can become a big celebrity with the fame and the money.
Do you think people out there that have issues with their family could say I`ll do this too and become famous?
SEPPINNI: I want to say two things. I think before I answer your question, I think we`re all missing something here, which is that Jose Baez is an attorney. A defense attorney. His job is to spin how people come across. We saw that in the courtroom. So this whole veil of therapy, I want to answer that, this whole veil of therapy is part of the spin of recovering her image.
They`re hoping that people will say, oh, look, she went and got help and now maybe we can take time to listen to her, that it will soften her image. So I want to be clear about that, don`t underestimate his strategic ways right now.
To your question about will other people copycat, not in this particular instance. It`s really shown that 1 percent or 2 percent of the population has the kind of charactericological (ph) disorder that she has that she would actually carry out this kind of murder. So no, you`re not going to see copycat killers. This is very specific to a personality.
CASAREZ: That`s good news. That`s very good news.
Richard Herman, do you agree or disagree with Dr. Leslie, what she initially said, that therapy is a strategy here at all? I mean have you had clients before that you believe have needed that and had helped them?
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think Miss Seppinni doesn`t know what she`s talking about, basically.
This woman has been locked in a cell 23 out of 24 hours every day for three years. OK? She needs some therapy. She needs to be able to try to adjust. Whether you like her or not, most people don`t like her, the fact is she`s been acquitted, she`s entitled to be free right now and she`s going to be free.
And this show, what this show is doing, Miss Allred said it, it`s a ratings bonanza. This show was perpetuating that. This show, by continuing to address Casey and criticize everything under the sun with her -- these people who watch this show, everyone -- everyone on the show, they`re going to watch those interviews when Casey does it finally. They`re going to read that book. They`re going to do it. They`re going to participate in making her a wealthy person.
CASAREZ: And the -- and they`ll hate her even more.
HERMAN: Including Nancy.
CASAREZ: I think the opinions will go --
HERMAN: Right.
CASAREZ: -- both way as strong or even stronger.
Out to Mary in Florida, hi, Mary.
MARY, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Jean. Thanks for taking my call.
CASAREZ: You`re welcome.
MARY: I love you, I watch "In Session" every single day during the court.
CASAREZ: Well, good.
MARY: And what I want to say is, one of your earlier callers were talking about any of these ABC, CBS channels taking any of her interviews or per se putting her movies or pictures of her and Caylee out there. And I just find it as still exploiting that poor little baby. I don`t think she would make a dime on any -- off of any of these stations. I still think -- I`m a grandmother that raises my 9-year-old grandson.
I was also -- I was, which we don`t know the truth, whether George did molest her to do anything to her, but I did have a brother that sexually abused me and I am no way would ever think of harming any of my grandchildren.
So it just makes you wonder what these people are thinking.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is like chasing Big Foot or the abominable snowman. It`s become very much a mythical kind of thing. Where is Casey.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: $5 million to Casey Anthony.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m not going to give the media anything when I get out of here.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Competing offer of $1 million from freelance producer Al Taylor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was game. I showed up. I wasn`t for sure if I was going to meet her and sure enough, she was there.
GRACE: You want to tell me tot mom didn`t know about this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where`s the check, because she wants that million- dollar check.
CASEY ANTHONY: This is as far as I need to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey, he`s a great attorney, Jose Baez, he got you off, but he`s not a great agent.
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: We`re trying to handle Casey`s affairs in a dignified manner.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We expect to make money.
CASEY ANTHONY: How I feel.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez in for Nancy Grace.
I want to go to Gloria Allred, because, Gloria, Mary in Florida I think just said something that is very poignant. She talked about any interview would be exploitation of Caylee, and we can`t forget this. There is a victim here and it`s Caylee Anthony, someone who has not gotten justice at this point.
Would an interview be exploitation of Caylee?
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ATTORNEY, CHILD ADVOCATE: Well, some people might interpret it that way, Jean, but there are also other interesting issues involved. For example, the fact that she is still appealing her misdemeanor conviction for lying to law enforcement, and in fact if, as and when she would appear for her deposition in the civil case by Zenaida Gonzalez to do her deposition in October, she might appear and then invoke her Fifth amendment privilege against self-incrimination and refused to testify if the appeal the still pending.
So if the appeal is still pending, she doesn`t want to testify in a civil case or invokes her privilege not to testify, how does she go out and then also do an interview and say in an interview what she`s not going to say in a deposition, perhaps get caught in lies, which could be used against her in a later deposition.
It`s all very complicated. Also if she files for bankruptcy, all of those lawsuits are going to be stayed, they can`t go forward, and then they won`t be able to take her deposition. So there are lots of interesting complications on the interview question.
CASAREZ: John Dill, your response to all that.
JOHN DILL, ATTORNEY FOR ZENAIDA GONZALEZ, FILED SUIT AGAINST TOT MOM: Well, I think she brings up a good point as far as she probably doesn`t want us to question her before she gives an interview. But let me just say something about the Fifth amendment.
We don`t think there`s a valid basis for the Fifth amendment. I know that`s been bandied about a bunch. It seems to me that evidence in the case was that she lied to the police and it was conceded so I don`t see how her Fifth amendment privilege would be implicated in our case. So I just don`t see that being the defense.
CASAREZ: You know --
DILL: And we`ll ask the judge to determine that.
CASAREZ: Right. John Dill, one -- I have two questions for you. First of all, one question I`ve had for a long time, because I followed this case from the very beginning, is that Casey said Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez kidnapped Caylee.
Is Zenaida`s middle name Fernandez who you represent?
DILL: No, it`s not. She said Zenaida Hernandez Gonzalez. She said Zenaida Gonzalez from the Sawgrass Apartments who lived in the same apartments that she talked about, but her middle name is not Fernandez.
CASAREZ: So you don`t think that`s an issue for you in this case?
DILL: Well, I think the similarities don`t end there. Keep in mind that she not only identified her for the Sawgrass Apartments, when asked by her mom if she had actually looked at a line of our client, she said I never were shown a picture of the girl (INAUDIBLE) our client, when in fact she had, and then her mom went out and publish that to the world.
So we believe that Casey was always keeping her options open for an alibi in implicating our client.
CASAREZ: All right.
DILL: That`s what the evidence in the case is going to be.
CASAREZ: Out to the callers. Rachel in Arizona. Hi, Rachel.
RACHEL, CALLER FROM ARIZONA: Hi, Jean. Thank you for taking my call. I just have a question if Casey Anthony goes into therapy, how long do the people think it would take her for to get help? And if it would take very long, wouldn`t that lose her interviews for whatever?
CASAREZ: OK. Two questions. Good question.
Leslie Seppinni, clinical psychologist out of Los Angeles. You touched on this before, but should it be inpatient therapy, outpatient therapy and how long?
SEPPINNI: Well, let me just straighten one thing. My name is not Miss, according to this other gentleman. My name is Dr. Leslie Seppinni and I just want to make it clear that he understands that I know what I`m doing, I did 10 years of suicide-homicide out in the field. So I do know what I`m talking about.
And in this particular case, had she been getting therapy all along while she was in prison, doing group therapy, even if it was with other prisoners, it is shown with the research that she would have a much better chance of not returning to the system or having problems later on.
However, individual therapy with people who have sociopathic tendencies or people who have anti-social personality disorder does not work in isolation. They have to see how their behavior affects other people when other people call them upon it.
CASAREZ: You know, to Woody Tripp, former police commander, polygraph expert joining us from Atlanta.
I think therapy is great for a number of reasons, but one basic reason we heard in trial that she was taught to lie. From an early age. So if we want the truth, if the deposition for John Dill with Zenaida Gonzalez is going to be the truth, doesn`t she have to learn how to tell the truth?
TRIPP: She probably does at this point, Nancy, and one of the things that -- sorry, Jean. One of the things that comes out in this is the fact of the sociopathic. You keep hearing that over and over and over. And they don`t have conscience. And with it, they can lie with no remorse.
CASAREZ: So do you believe she`s sociopathic?
TRIPP: From everything that I have seen, certainly, her daughter is dead, 31 days later, she finally reports it. Conscience, where is it? Is it ringing somewhere? Because I don`t think any of us have heard it.
CASAREZ: John Dill, attorney for Zenaida Gonzalez, you want those psychiatric reports, don`t you?
DILL: We certainly do. I mean there were representations made in our case that she`s not able to be deposed because of emotional state. Wouldn`t believe that`s true. We`d like to see what the reports say.
CASAREZ: So because of that it became relevant for your case because of that statement?
DILL: Exactly. They`re trying -- again, we believe they`re trying to put off this deposition. We want the deposition to go forward, we wanted it to go forward last week. So anything that they`re using to try to delay it, we want to snuff it out and see if it`s actually accurate.
CASAREZ: Ellie Jostad, how many lawsuits are there now in a row wanting money from Casey Anthony? And many have very valid claims because remember, this is a woman, Casey Anthony, who did not report her daughter missing and hundreds of thousands of dollars were spent to find Caylee.
JOSTAD: Right. And that`s the basis for most of these lawsuits. Aside from Zenaida Gonzalez, he`s also got a searcher, his name is David Bedali, he`s a diver that was involved in the search of the Little Econ River.
Also Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter we all know, he is saying that Casey Anthony and her attorney Jose Baez told him that Caylee was alive, that they should go look for her, so he`s saying they knew the whole time she was dead and he wants the money back that he spent going down to Florida, providing security, looking for Caylee.
CASAREZ: All right. So there goes the million-dollars.
Gladys in Pennsylvania. Hi, Gladys.
GLADYS, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hello. I don`t understand what all the fuss is with all these people. The jury clearly found her not guilty and I myself do not think there was enough evidence there to convict her on what she was charged with and I thought that all through the whole trial.
And I just don`t understand why people cannot accept the fact that the jury did their job, the system worked and let her alone, if she wants to go make money, she`s been in jail for three years. She needs to make some money somewhere. So I just don`t understand it.
CASAREZ: Richard Herman, let`s talk seriously for a second. You know I think for a lot of us it was shocking, that verdict. In fact Cheney Mason told me when I sat down and talked with him that he had been programmed to think he -- of course he says because of the media, but he`s been -- he`s been programmed to think that maybe there would be a guilty verdict.
Why do you think that Americans are having a tough time to accept this verdict?
HERMAN: Because the view that most Americans got was through the cable media, Jean. It wasn`t from just isolated in the courtroom like this jury who was sequestered, who came to court everyday, listened to the evidence, and went home. They didn`t put on Nancy every night and watch Nancy mock her and make millions and make fun of her.
CASAREZ: It`s not Nancy. It`s not Nancy. It`s not Nancy.
HERMAN: They didn`t have that.
CASAREZ: No, it`s not Nancy.
HERMAN: I`m just saying.
CASAREZ: No, Gloria Allred.
HERMAN: Not just Nancy.
CASAREZ: Gloria, I was in the courtroom. I saw and heard the evidence. A lot of people that saw and heard the evidence believed that it was there for a conviction.
ALLRED: Yes. A lot of people do believe that. But also the main point is that the jurors did not find guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I agree that their decision has to be respected even if some of us disagree with it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: This was an accident. Lie. Lie. Lie. Lie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think my words were in an instant.
CASEY ANTHONY: My only concern is that Caylee comes back to us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The delay in recovering little Caylee`s remains --
CASEY ANTHONY: And she`s smiling and she`s happy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The truth that Miss Anthony are strangers --
CASEY ANTHONY: And that she`s OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Worked to our considerable disadvantage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously calling her a liar. Little did I know that would turn out to be her defense.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
CASAREZ: Ellie Jostad, producer for NANCY GRACE.
Ellie, we`re hearing that George and Cindy Anthony want some of the evidence back in their home.
JOSTAD: Yes, that`s correct. All those items that were seized from their home including things like Caylee`s bedding, all that Winnie-the-pooh bedding that was taken from her bedroom, we are told in court that it matched the blanket found at the scene.
Also items like clothing. The car, as a matter of fact. The car we heard smells like human decomposition. All those items seized as evidence and the George and Cindy Anthony could stand to get those back once this case is over.
CASAREZ: They want the car back?
JOSTAD: Well, that is one of the items. They want everything back. They said they`re not necessarily going to keep it. They may destroy some things. But what they don`t want to have happen is for these things to end up on eBay, for somebody to try to make money off this evidence that was seized.
CASAREZ: All right. That makes sense. To Terri in Ohio. Hi, Terri.
TERRI, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I just have a quick question. If Jose Baez is saying that Caylee drowned in the swimming pool and Casey agreed to that, what possible story should she come out with that would contradict that? And if she did, how would it look for Jose? Would she be calling him a liar? Would that like lack some credibility issues there?
CASAREZ: Terri, that would open up an entirely new can of worms. You are exactly right.
Thank you to all of our guests tonight. And let us stop to remember Army Staff Sergeant Carlos Dominguez, 57 years old, from Savannah, Georgia. He was killed in Iraq. He was awarded the Bronze Star, the Purple Heart, and the Meritorious Service medal.
He enjoyed listening to music and watching football and the evening news. You know he loved playing the lottery for fun and could he bake a killer chocolate cake. He always lived life to the fullest and was a true kid at heart.
He leaves behind his wife Kim, his children, Marcelo, Lisa and Richard. His brother Gus and his sister Sonya.
Carlos Dominguez, an American hero.
Thank you so much to all of our guests, to you at home for being with us tonight. We`re going to see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, everybody.
END
