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Nancy Grace
Casey Anthony Asking for $1.5 Million?
Aired July 26, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: Tonight, breaking news in the case of Casey Anthony. A new report surfaces that Anthony will not talk for less than $1.5 million. She wants more. That`s right, $1.5 million isn`t going to do it. And that`s not all. Another report surfaces that after she gets off on murder, Jose Baez gives Casey Anthony a fancy camera as a present to take pictures that she can sell.
Meanwhile, a talk show that reportedly offers a quarter of a million dollar payday for George and Cindy Anthony is, quite, "laughed at," a report their attorney won`t discuss, citing he doesn`t talk about his clients` finances.
And tonight, reports emerge that Jose Baez meets with a top book agent. How much is he trying to rake in? With all this talk of money, money, money, has Anthony even bothered to talk to her parents?
Questions swirling. Will Casey Anthony have another baby to replace Caylee? Is she planning to travel to Australia? And of course, where is Casey Anthony?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who is going to get that first interview with Casey Anthony?
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: I haven`t been able to talk to anybody. I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony to tell her story.
CASEY ANTHONY: I already talked about this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s all up to Casey.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tell-all deal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Huge amount of money.
CASEY ANTHONY: It`s just obscene.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prime (ph) for her to cash in on this.
CASEY ANTHONY: Do you have any more information on that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People are desperate to book Casey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No matter what people say, people will watch.
CASEY ANTHONY: And I don`t know who`s going to see things.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People want to hear what she has to say.
CASEY ANTHONY: Who`s going to misconstrue whatever else.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She will decide if she wants to do it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are curious about this. People want to hear what she has to say.
CASEY ANTHONY: There`s many people that are dumb enough to open their mouths.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She just wants to start to rebuild her life.
JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: I want her to somehow get her life back together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How she`ll survive a life under the microscope.
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m being watched at all times.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Good evening. I`m Pat Lalama, filling in tonight for Nancy Grace. First, thank you for being with us. And breaking tonight, a new report surfaces that Casey Anthony won`t talk for less than $1.5 million. That`s right, 1.5 million bucks just isn`t enough.
Let`s go straight out to Mike Walker, senior editor of "The National Enquirer." Michael, do I hear 1.7, do I hear 2? How high do they go?
MIKE WALKER, "NATIONAL ENQUIRER" (via telephone): I think we won`t be in the bidding here. We have our own ways of getting information. And even though we have always said there`s nothing wrong with paying for stories, and of course, we were the ones who admitted we did, unlike the lying networks...
(LAUGHTER)
WALKER: ... ABC, their dirty little secret is out. They`ve been paying for stories all these years. In fact, ABC paid for Casey Anthony`s defense in the trial.
But no, I think what we`re going to be seeing here are bigger and bigger offers. I don`t think us poor little fellows could even keep up with what you`re going to see.
LALAMA: Michael Christian, senior field producer, "In Session," you know, all these networks -- and I`ve known the secrets all these years, that, Hey, let`s license some photos, let`s, you know, pay for some footage, and really, that`s how they were getting by. But right now, they`re still to this day saying, We`re not involved in anything like this, we`re not paying. What`s the truth?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SR. FIELD PRODUCER, "IN SESSION": You know, 20 years ago, Pat, I worked at one of the networks -- I`m not going to say which one -- and I know someone who had worked on that network`s morning news program. And he told me once he got things on expense reports people expected him to sign to get people to come on for interviews, things like dining room sets. And one had hookers down. They literally put it on an expense report that they had hired hookers for this person.
It goes on all the time. It`s a sad thing. I`m glad to hear that ABC now says they`re not going to do it. I hope they stick by that.
LALAMA: You know what, Ellie Jostad, NANCY GRACE producer, she needs the money. She`s been acquitted. You know, people call it blood money, but listen, she knows she`s marketable, right? So she`s just playing the game.
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, that`s true. And she doesn`t have any money. She`s already asked to have that indigence continued throughout her appeals of those lying to police convictions. She hasn`t worked since Caylee was born. And her parents, as well. They haven`t worked for the last three years, so they need money. Everybody needs money.
LALAMA: Andrew Kahan, director, Houston mayor`s crime victims office, murder-abilia expert. I think, from what I understand about it, it pains you to see these offers coming in. But she`s an acquitted human being. How bad is it to you?
ANDY KAHAN, HOUSTON MAYOR`S CRIME VICTIMS` OFFICE DIR.: Well, the harsh reality is the often forgotten figure in all of these money offers is 2-year-old Caylee Marie. Everybody`s making and making speculation over blood money off of the death of a 2-year-old.
But I`ll tell you, Pat, what I find the ultimate irony and hypocrisy is the same mainstream media that often would vilify Casey Anthony now appears to be fawning over offing her allegedly millions of dollars. I`d like to see the media take a stand. This is their opportunity to tell the public that, We`re going to hold ourselves to a higher moral ground and we`re not going to offer her any money at all.
And something tells me she`ll be held in much higher -- the media particularly will be held in much higher esteem. That`s my challenge to them.
LALAMA: It`s a great challenge. But Andrew J. Scott, former police chief, Boca Raton, Florida, president AJS Consulting, I liken it to this. I live in Los Angeles, the land of the freeways. There are accidents all the time. I`m driving on the freeway, I say, I`m not going to look, I`m not going to look. Every time I approach the accident, you can`t help but look. Isn`t it the same analogy here, that society hates her, she`s vilified, but we can`t -- it`s like you cannot turn away?
ANDREW J. SCOTT, FMR. CHIEF OF POLICE, BOCA RATON: You`re absolutely right. You know, there`s always that voyeuristic perspective that we all have. And she, indeed, is vilified by many people in the public, but yet people want to really try to understand, if she does give an interview, what type of person she is and what type of person could she possibly be after she has to go through all of this through the criminal trial, and of course, her behavior before the trial. And this is, I think, a magnet, like, a light to -- for a moth for the public to see what this type of person is. It`s not unusual, though.
LALAMA: You know, Ray Giudice, defense attorney, it would seem to me, given that she`s a pathological liar, that she`s going to choose someone who treats her with kid gloves. Or the other perspective is that she`s such a pathological liar that she believes she can pull the wool over someone`s eyes. Who do you think would ultimately get an interview with this woman?
RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I don`t know, but I guarantee you there`s going to be a lot of preconditions. I don`t care how much is paid, these news media outlets are going to bend over backwards and agree to toss her softballs, easy questions, allow her to develop her personality to sell for other media events.
LALAMA: And Anne Bremner, also defense attorney, would you be there advising her, if you were Jose Baez, on what to answer, what -- you know, parameters to set? And by the way, we all know that a true journalist isn`t supposed to allow any parameters to be set at all. But I cannot believe that she would just have an open book, Ask me anything. That`s just not going to happen, is it.
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. And it`s great to see you, Pat. But no, you`re absolutely right. Would I be there advising her? Yes. But of course, there`s no 5th Amendment privilege for the murder. Of course, there is on her appeal. So she`s got to be careful in the legal case.
But the other part of it is, on these softballs and everything else -- you know, all we want to know is what happened. So really, what would sell the must-see TV would be some kind of a confession or tell us the circumstances. So it`s going to be really difficult. It`ll start with the networks, then it`ll go bigger into the pay TV, into a book, maybe into a movie.
LALAMA: You know, Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, I`ve asked myself this over and over again. What is the fascination with this woman? I worked for "America`s Most Wanted" for many years. There were -- there was one heart-breaking child, missing child, dead, story after another. But somehow, the nation gloms onto this one. What is the component of this particular case that we want to know about this woman? What is it?
LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I think if you had to capsulize it in one word, Pat, it would be conscience. We seem to see that she appears to have no conscience. She`s a particular kind of personality style. And those people are only focused on doing what`s good for them, in the moment, and they seem to have no conscience or awareness of their moral responsibility to any other people.
And we`re fascinated. Why is that so? From a psychological point of view, I`m sorry to say, it`s actually not that interesting and it`s all too common. It`s a classic narcissistic personality syndrome. Now, I`ve never met her, but she sure appears that way.
LALAMA: But Mike Walker, I know -- I know you, I know of you, we`ve been in the same kind of business for a long time together. I have never - - I think there`s another component. I think people like the salaciousness. She`s considered a hotty. But go figure. I don`t know why.
WALKER: There you go.
LALAMA: You know, there is that sex component. And I don`t think we`re talking enough about that. There`s a lot of people out there who wonder about her because she liked to party, she was promiscuous, if I might use that old-fashioned term. Don`t you think that`s part of it?
WALKER: Yes, I do. And anybody who doubts that, just go on line and look at men, for instance, commenting on various stories about Casey Anthony when they know that they`re anonymous in what they`re saying about her. Wow, look at her! Man, is she hot! She looks crazy, too!
LALAMA: Oh!
WALKER: Those crazy girls are really wild! And you`ve got to understand -- I mean, it`s easy to sneer at that, but the fact is, she is. If you can just look at her objectively for a minute, she is a very attractive woman. And she -- women committing crimes are always fascinating. And there is the sexual component. This woman is sexual.
In our own story, we talk about how she`s bragging about all these guys, body builders, and, Oh, my God, fellows who either become infatuated with the celebrity -- this is her direct quote -- "Fellows who become either infatuated with the celebrity or with the fair damsel in distress." Those are her quotes about herself -- celebrity, fair damsel in distress.
She`s playing this. She knows she`s hot. She`s the girl at the senior prom and she`s the hottest girl in class, and all these guys are angling for her. And she`s bragging to her friends about this while she`s undergoing this trial and her daughter is dead.
And that is not just a lack of conscience. If she was a big, ugly, hulking guy, we would be paying no attention to this case.
LALAMA: Yes, you know, I just want to go back to Leslie real quick before we move on in the next block. But that sexual component makes me sick because it`s clear that there`s still -- that there`s a sexism applied to the criminal world, that we`re interested in this because she likes to go out and party a lot.
AUSTIN: Right. Well, again...
LALAMA: For lack of a better term.
AUSTIN: ... that speaks to our set of values. Because she`s hot, we`re fascinated with her. And she seems to have no conscience about her relationships or her morals there, either. And I`m not a stick in the mud about morals, by any means, but that sexual attractiveness that people would be talking about how hot she is, shows that our culture has lot our gyroscope. We`re not talking about what does this mean in human relationships and human context, and we`re forgetting about Caylee when we do all of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: After all she`s been through? You mean being acquitted on the murder of her daughter? What has she been through?
CASEY ANTHONY: What the hell`s going on?
GRACE: She`s been lounging in a private cell, having snacks her admirers paid for.
CASEY ANTHONY: My entire life has been taken from me!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Casey Anthony circus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let them put their money where their mouth is.
CASEY ANTHONY: That`s exactly what I`ve been saying.
-- money...
-- money...
-- money...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lots of money.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jose Baez.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The proverbial ringmaster.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) stay on top of things.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will she cash in on the publicity?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No other missing child has that national coverage.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And tell her story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone paying her seven figures to tell her story.
CASEY ANTHONY: ... money...
-- money...
-- money...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A million dollars. We`re just an average family.
GRACE: Who is going to pay tot mom blood money?
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: (INAUDIBLE) I`m talking. I am talking!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody wants to hear what she says.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For more money, more money?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All that stuff will come out.
CHENEY MASON, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: There are no offers for books, for movies, for interviews.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We haven`t discussed anything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who will want to hear her voice?
CASEY ANTHONY: That would be pretty much on the money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, sitting in for Nancy Grace. Before we move on to Cindy and George, Michael Christian, senior field producer, "In Session," you`re a veteran. You`ve been in the business. I`m wondering if there`s just this little window of opportunity for them, that six months from now, is Casey still going to be demanding $1.5 million, or are we going to be done with it and on to Conrad Murray or somebody else?
CHRISTIAN: You know, we will have moved on in some sense, Pat. And I think had she been convicted, people would have moved on much more quickly. But because of the acquittal, that`s going to stick in people`s throats. And that works for her and against her. You know, it keeps her in the public eye, which helps keep her price up, but at the same time, people have a negative attitude toward her.
So I think -- because of her acquittal, I think she`s still out there and she`s going to be bankable for a while.
LALAMA: Ellie Jostad, NANCY GRACE producer, she`s out of money. She seems for all practical purposes unemployable to me, right?
JOSTAD: Well, yes, you`d think so. I mean, it doesn`t seem like she could walk into a retail store and apply for a job and be very successful with that. But you know, if she does make one of these offers, the other thing she has to contend with -- she`s got a bunch of people lining up to sue her. So whether or not she`ll be able to even keep any money she makes on an offer remains to be seen.
LALAMA: We`ve callers waiting in line, as usual. I want to go to Marilyn in Kentucky. Good evening.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
LALAMA: Hi. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If she has another child, could that child be taken away from her?
LALAMA: Oh, well, that`s a good question. Let`s ask Andrew J. Scott, former police chief, Boca Raton, Florida. You can`t take away another child that she legitimately has and -- she`s been acquitted. Nothing -- unless she abuses that child in some way, correct?
SCOTT: You`re absolutely right. I think the caller is spot on, though, because there are no laws that create a move to take a newborn child from her. It`s only based upon the actions that may occur as the child grows up, and if there`s proof that there`s child abuse. But that`s an interesting concept that perhaps one day might be explored based upon the incident that transpired here, even though she has been acquitted for the crime.
LALAMA: All right, I want to move on to Cindy and George, also in the marketplace. And Michael Christian, what do you know about offers made to them.
CHRISTIAN: ... a report, Pat, that they have turned down an offer, turned down $250,000, that they just simply weren`t interested at this point, the inference being that they want more than $250,000.
Now, they`re in an interesting position because -- because of what they`ve been through, I think in a lost people`s minds, they actually have more sympathy going for them than Casey does. So they might be a story that people actually would want to hear and actually would want to tune in and watch. So in some ways, they`re in a better position than she is. But apparently, $250,000 is not going to cut it with George and Cindy. At least that`s what we`re hearing.
LALAMA: Yes, and it was apparently a syndicated show, which would be like an "Extra" or "Inside edition" or "ET"...
CHRISTIAN: Right.
LALAMA: ... something like that. And Andy Kahan, I`m wondering, director of Houston mayor`s crime -- mayor`s office crime victims -- excuse me -- you know, how do you feel about...
KAHAN: Thanks for calling me Andy, Pat.
LALAMA: ... the parents -- I`m so sorry!
KAHAN: That`s OK. Only mean basketball coaches call me Andrew.
LALAMA: All right. OK. All right. Here`s my question. Do you feel any differently about the parents being able to make any money from this horrific affair?
KAHAN: I think this is such a precedent-setting case -- and I`ve researched the issue of murder-abilia, the issue of profiting, and I`ve not run into any scenarios other than the O.J. Simpson case, in which so-called innocents and other people affiliated with the case can profit off of this.
I don`t think the public is going begrudge Cindy or George making any money, and I think if they put it to use towards their charity, I think they`ll be held in higher esteem. But again, I think the window is closing in on any of these cases right here. So they better grab it while they can.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The disconnect between the jury and the rest of America.
BAEZ: Have you ever had anything so bad happen to you.
CASEY ANTHONY: I was mad.
BAEZ: That you told no one about.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "This is the happiest that I have been in a very long time. I hope that my happiness will continue to grow."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: Jose and I go over this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Money.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dollars.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Money.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dollars.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Money.
CASEY ANTHONY: My only concern.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a victim here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to hear Casey tell the truth.
CASEY ANTHONY: I ate cole slaw today. Tell him I ate cole slaw.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She talked about any interview.
CASEY ANTHONY: Every time we talk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The same way they wanted to hear her testify.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were shocked.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would be exploitation of Caylee, someone who has not gotten justice. And we can`t forget this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, sitting in for Nancy Grace. Ray Giudice, defense attorney, something strikes me as interesting about the family. If I`m not mistaken, the jury foreperson said that most of the people on the jury really felt George was connected somehow. I`m more interested in hearing from the family. I think the ante should be up for them.
GIUDICE: Well, there was certainly a lot of feedback that George did not make a very credible witness. And what you`re seeing is all of this Internet and blogging, all the action that`s out there on the Internet and the social network against the Anthonys is actually working to raise the ante and the value that they`re going to be extracting from the very same people who oppose Casey Anthony.
LALAMA: You know what, Leslie Austin? Is there any hope that she will -- Casey will ever have a decent relationship with her family again?
AUSTIN: Well, it`s all going to depend on if she`s serious about getting some therapeutic support. You know, she has an opportunity -- and I`m not holding my breath here, but she does have an opportunity to do some good out of all this. If she would do some self-reflection, really think about what all this means, write a really good book that means something, that helps people, maybe she could reconnect with her family, if they also do the work.
I doubt that`s going to happen because I think everybody`s going, unfortunately -- at least, she seems to be -- for the quick fame and the quick buck, rather than really serving the community and trying to make something good come out of this. She could do it if she wanted to, I doubt she will.
LALAMA: Well, let`s ask defense attorney Anne Bremner. I don`t see her -- I don`t know whether she`ll be involved in a crime, but I just don`t see her changing who she is and what she is.
BREMNER: No. And I think that this is why -- there was one account where she said, Where`s the check, I mean, with one meeting on a potential interview. And so maybe that`s the fascination, too. I mean, it`s not just -- and I think your viewers probably know -- I know you know -- that it`s not just the networks right now that are battling and these license fees and who`s got the best ratings, you know, that we`re looking at. We`re looking at this is a launching pad for her, for the paid interviews, for a potential book, et cetera.
And whatever network she chooses, they`ll come back -- or the family - - and promote the book when it comes out, bring her back on. So she`s smart and she`s cagey. And I think she`s probably calling the shots over Jose Baez, frankly, in terms of how this is going to play out because that`s the kind of person she is and she appeared that way, at least to me and to others, at the trial.
LALAMA: Andrew Scott, you know, your work with law enforcement, you have been around people who`ve been in trouble and been in trouble chronically. What do you see in her future?
SCOTT: Well, I see that -- I frankly see that she`s going to make money, and probably significant money. Set aside the lawsuits. And that`s just the nature of our culture. And I don`t see anything else happening beyond that. But I do see her getting in trouble again somewhere down the road.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I agree.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MASON: Tough road ahead of her.
GRACE: What has she been through?
CASEY ANTHONY: What the hell`s going on?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s all over but the crying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I`m finally happy. Let`s just hope that doesn`t change."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is like chasing Big Foot or the abominable snowman. It`s become very much a mythical kind of thing, where is Casey.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: I`m not going to give the media anything when I get out of here.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Competing offer of $1 million won from freelance producer Al Taylor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was game, I showed up, I wasn`t for sure if I was going to meet her and sure enough, she was there.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: You want to tell me tot mom didn`t know about this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is the check? She wants that million-dollar check.
CASEY ANTHONY: Take this as far as I need to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The truth is, and Miss Anthony are strangers.
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, that she`s -- that she`s OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Worked to our considerable disadvantage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously calling her a liar. Little did I know that would turn out to be her defense.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: I`m Pat Lalama sitting in for Nancy Grace.
Before we get into Jose Baez`s run for the money, I want to bring in Paul Nassif, facial plastic and reconstructive surgeon. You know, everyone has talked about Casey changing her looks to survive. How radical could she go?
PAUL NASSIF, M.D., F.A.C.S., FACIAL PLASTIC AND RECONSTRUCTIVE SURGEON: First of all, hi, Pat. I just landed in Orlando and I`m wearing casual shirts so relax about that.
LALAMA: No problem. No problem.
NASSIF: I have to tell you, you know, no matter how much she does, she`s still going to look like Casey. And unless someone really deforms her face, she`s not going to look different. So she can spend as much money as she wants. If anything, she`ll look like she had plastic surgery and she`ll just look weird. And I don`t think most doctors will do that, especially to her.
LALAMA: You don`t think there`ll be a shoddy doctor out there willing to do anything for the dough?
NASSIF: You know, I have to say, I hope not. But, you know what, anything can happen. But I`ll tell you one thing, I sure would not do anything to her.
LALAMA: So in other words, it would have to be incredibly radical for her to look different?
NASSIF: You know, we talk about looking different -- you know, the only way you can really change someone`s realistic, you know, looks, not like that movie "Face-Off," but if you actually take the bones and change the bones of the face, completely change the way the eyes look, change the lips, I mean you have to really deform the person to make them look different.
So if anything, she would actually look very unattractive if she changed her looks.
LALAMA: So what you`re saying it`s probably not worth it for her to go -- undergo any kind of radical surgery. She`s just going to have to -- you know, take her chances and see how much she can get along in life without people recognizing her, which they ultimately will, I think.
NASSIF: You know, I mean I think that`s the way to go. If anything, she`s probably going to change her hair, change cosmetic things, but any type of plastic surgery, it`s -- you know, I really doubt it. I just don`t see it happening. But who knows. I may be wrong.
LALAMA: Yes. Ellie Jostad, let`s talk about Jose Baez. He has been rumored to be talking with publishers. What do we know?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Right. Well, the "New York Post" is reporting that he`s met with a literary agent. That he is also trying to entertain some book deals.
Jose Baez, however, says that, you know, he`s met with a lot of different people, that doesn`t mean he signed anything yet. He wants to hear from these people. And then discuss it with his family before he makes any sort of deal with anybody. That`s what he`s saying right now.
LALAMA: You know, I`ve known and interviewed a lot of defense attorneys in my life. I`m married to a criminal defense attorney, go figure.
Ray Giudice, here`s my question. I hear people now referring to Jose Baez as another Johnnie Cochran. To borrow from the old political debate, I knew Johnnie Cochran. He may be a decent guy, he`s no Johnnie Cochran.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes --
LALAMA: Johnnie Cochran was a veteran, brilliant attorney, rest his soul.
GIUDICE: That`s right.
LALAMA: You know, so how do we go from this guy who was literally made fun of during the trial to now he`s the god of all defense attorneys? I mean what is that about?
GIUDICE: Well, I don`t necessarily think that`s the approach of members of the bar and the judiciary about Mr. Baez, but on the biggest stage of his career, he got the victory, he`s entitled to enjoy it.
I do agree with you, the O.J. Simpson trial was not Johnnie Cochran`s first big dance. He had a legendary career and that he`s beloved amongst members of the bar. I don`t know if Mr. Baez will ever make it to that status, but he is entitled to get out of this financially what he can get out of it.
LALAMA: Anne Bremner, defense attorney, do you think basically media are using him to get to Casey? I mean, they`re talking about talk shows and being a commentator and a pundit. You know, I think really once they get Casey, they aren`t really going to care, with no disrespect to Jose Baez, but I just know how the media works.
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. Well, yes. But he is kind of an every man lawyer. There`s a certain charm there. And I know him, you know, he`s doing the best he can for his client. But you`re right. I mean he`s the agent there. He`s the advocate. You know he`s standing in the shoes of the client. And he`s going to make the deals for her and he`s in Mandarin Oriental here, and they`re talking about giving him a position as a legal analyst, et cetera, at least (INAUDIBLE)
He did post on Facebook that he`s not looking for a job, he`s got a job in Florida and he doesn`t want to be a legal analyst. But you know these are huge bidding wars. These are fierce bidding wars and he`s out there negotiating for the best thing for his client to launch the next phase, which is monetizing basically her story and there is a lot of money, money and more money out there for her.
LALAMA: But there`s also talk about, you know, work for him. A book, a TV show.
BREMNER: Right.
LALAMA: Mike Walker, senior editor, "National Enquirer," Tom Mesereau, a lawyer I also respect highly, who won this amazing victory in the Michael Jackson case up in Santa Barbara, I mean, it was unbelievable his victory up there. And he had trouble shopping a book. People didn`t really care.
I actually know right now that three jurors in the Michael Jackson sexual molestation case tried to shop a book and it wasn`t going anywhere. What does that tell you about audiences and viewers and readers that maybe they aren`t going to be interested in what Jose Baez has to say?
MIKE WALKER, SENIOR EDITOR, NATIONAL ENQUIRER: No. They will be because in this particular case, I mean, I certainly want to hear Jose Baez talking about how he talked the Anthonys into saying that George had molested Casey sexually as a child. And thereby, you know, helping her get off.
I mean that`s as big a sacrifice as anybody could make. I don`t think that these -- you know, look, Jose Baez is a guy who is at the apex of a case that is just fascinating. The Michael Jackson case was not fascinating. We all knew Michael Jackson. They had the trial. We knew he was kind of going to get off and he did and so what?
This is a murder. This is a murder of a child and a woman who is on one hand sexually attractive, so that we watch her, and secondly, she is that most scary of female figures, you know, the completely amoral beautiful woman who can pull people into her web and then do whatever she wants to.
It`s a totally different case. He is really sitting on top of a gold mine right now, Jose Baez.
LALAMA: Michael Christian, do you agree? I mean I`m looking at superstar Michael Jackson, OK, but his lawyer can`t get a book, and Casey Anthony, alleged child killer, Florida. Do you see it the same way that Mike Walker does?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, "IN SESSION": You know, I really do, Pat. The case that this reminds me the most of, and all the cases I`ve ever covered in my 20 years of doing this, is Scott Peterson`s case. And there are so many similarities.
You have a very attractive defendant. You have a very attractive and sympathetic victim in each case. You have a mountain of lies. You have sexual intrigue. And people were so caught up in that case as they were here.
Celebrity didn`t figure into it. It was just an intriguing story that really grabbed people. And had Scott Peterson been acquitted rather than convicted, everybody would have been after his attorneys, everybody would have been after Scott Peterson for a book. It seems like to me like it would have been a very similar situation.
LALAMA: Before I switch gears, let`s go to another caller. I want to hear from Jeanne in Florida.
Good evening, Jeanne. Your question?
JEANNIE, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Yes, Pat. I just want to know why anybody in their right mind would give to a liar $1.5 million to lie and say the same things that she has been saying all along, that her daughter`s fine and that she`s some place safe and --
LALAMA: Well, let`s ask Leslie Austin, psychotherapist. I think the psychotherapist is the perfect person to explain to us the motivation behind throwing all this money at this woman. I still don`t quite get it. I still don`t quite get it, but go ahead, Leslie.
DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, we have all created a fascinating person for fame or infamy, and we expect that she will probably lie. She has no reason not to lie. If she does an interview or book, I`m not sure I can believe anything she`ll say.
And we`re fascinated, how could she continue lying, how can we prove what she says? The soap opera will continue. And again I don`t mean to be a stick in the mud here, but now it`s about Casey and it`s not about Caylee. And that fundamentally is still disturbing.
LALAMA: But, you know what, Ellie Jostad, NANCY GRACE producer, you know, I wonder, are people -- I think probably part of the interest in listening to her in an interview is they just want to see if somebody can trip her up. Don`t you think that`s an element?
JOSTAD: I definitely think so. I mean we have all watched these videos where she has got three or four homicide detective raking her over the coal and she won`t give them a straight answer. So I find it hard to believe that a journalist is going to get the real story out of Casey Anthony when all these homicide detectives and FBI agents couldn`t do it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The disconnect between the jury and the rest of America.
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: Have you ever had anything so bad happen to you?
CASEY ANTHONY: I was mad.
BAEZ: That you told no one about.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the happiest that I have been in a very long time. I hope that my happiness will continue to grow.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: Casey Anthony is public enemy number one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Baby killer. Baby killer.
BAEZ: I`m public enemy number two.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do the right thing.
CASEY ANTHONY: There`s a (INAUDIBLE) in all of us. And another (INAUDIBLE), we`re thinking here we go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I support you, Casey. I support you.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Baez are reportedly trying to market photos to the media.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: $225,000.
CASEY ANTHONY: Jesus Christ.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s ridiculous.
CASEY ANTHONY: It happened before. It happens every day.
BAEZ: I don`t care how much criticism I face, personally. It is silly.
CASEY ANTHONY: Thousands.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: We`re talking about thousands.
CASEY ANTHONY: Thousands.
CINDY ANTHONY: Can you imagine?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is becoming a circus over here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come out of Casey world and confront and deal with the reality of what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a joke.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama sitting in for Nancy Grace. And Mike Walker, the angle we`ve all been waiting for. The report that Casey may be connected with a very wealthy Australian. Could it be?
WALKER: Yes, Pat. When she was in prison, she was getting bombarded with letters from an Australian man who said he loved her, he wanted to marry her, they would have a wonderful future, planning to come to the U.S. and let me tell you, the story behind that, this man, who is 51 years old, and the "Enquirer" talked to him, he wants to remain anonymous, he lives near Sidney, Australia, remembered when he saw the trial that he had a two- month affair with Casey in 2004.
She was about 18 years old. He ran into her in an Orlando bar and he said, quote, "To be with an attractive 18-year-old was exciting," unquote, but he was married at the time, had children of his own. Well, now he`s not married.
So he`s watching the trial. Then he sees Caylee`s birth date, August 2005, flashed up on the screen, and he suddenly realized wow, that`s roughly nine months after he claims he had that fling with Casey Anthony. He then realized he could be the child`s father.
Now he became fascinated with the trial, he was fascinated with Casey already, he started writing to her. She told people that we spoke to that this man is handsome, he is rich, she can have a wonderful life with him, and remember, with just not even major plastic surgery, if you go to Australia, which is way down at the bottom of the world, she could disappear there quite handily where she`s not as notorious as she is here.
LALAMA: OK. Andrew Scott, former police chief, Boca Raton, Florida. I sniff a rat, a crack pot, a weirdo, a perv, what about you?
ANDREW J. SCOTT, FMR. CHIEF OF POLICE, BOCA RATON, FL.; PRESIDENT, AJS CONSULTING: Well, it`s too good to be true. There are many people that for some reason they are attracted to these types of individuals, high profile, behind the bar type of thing. And it just sets them off and, you know, there could be some merit to this.
But I`ll be honest with you, if it is, this just gets more bizarre as we move forward beyond a trial. So this is a good one to watch.
LALAMA: Ellie Jostad, aren`t there, you know, all kinds of guys coming out of the woodwork on this matter?
JOSTAD: Well, there are a lot of guys out there that are claiming or their relatives are claiming that they could be Caylee`s father. There is an inmate in South Carolina who believes he could be the father. He says he wants a DNA test. But there is a couple of families of young men who died in car accidents and, remember, that was always Casey`s story to people, that Caylee`s father had died in a car accident.
So there`s least a couple of people out there who think their deceased son could be Caylee`s father. And those people could have standing to file a wrongful death suit against Casey Anthony down the road if they can prove that they are related to Caylee.
LALAMA: Ray Giudice, where have they been, is my first question. And secondly, is there any merit to someone who could prove he is the biological father, filing a wrongful death case?
GIUDICE: Well, the biological father would have what`s called standing. That means the appropriate person to bring forth the lawsuit. So it would be possible. Where they have been is a great question.
Let me just pursue the out-of-the-country issue for a second. What really may be going on here is you move Casey Anthony out of the United States, set up her offshores corporation to park these financial assets, would make it very difficult, not impossible, but extremely difficult to enforce future judgments.
LALAMA: Oh, very, very good. Now let`s go back to something else rather shocking. I don`t know that I want to believe this, but Michael Christian, what is this about Jose Baez allegedly giving Casey a camera in which to take pictures that she could ultimately profit from?
CHRISTIAN: Yes, supposedly according to the report, he gave her a camera, a nice camera, when she was released and told her to take pictures and basically this is to document her new freedom. Now, in theory those could be used as part of an interview, you know, we`re not paying for interview, we`re going to pay you for these great pictures.
The problem is, if she`s taking the pictures, she`s not in them and word has already filtered down that people aren`t particularly interested in what she might see through the viewfinder they want to see pictures of Casey after she`s been released. So if she`s using this alleged camera that was given to her by Jose Baez, hopefully it`s got a timer and she can set it up to take pictures of herself, because I think that`s what people would want to see.
LALAMA: Anne Bremner, very quickly, is there anything wrong with that? Would there be something wrong with an attorney giving his client a camera and saying, take pictures, this could help you down the road?
BREMNER: Well, I don`t know where that comes under lawyering. You know in terms of what we do for a living, what we go to law school for, Pat.
But you know, you shouldn`t have gifts with clients and things like that. And you know, basically this is something an agent or someone would be involved with in terms of getting her pictures out there. But they sell. The licensing, of course, is usually of pictures and we heard ABC of course paid for pictures to the tune of over $200,000 before the trial.
LALAMA: Andy Kahan, do you find anything wrong with that, if it is true?
ANDY KAHAN, DIR. OF HOUSTON MAYOR`S CRIME VICTIMS` OFFICE, MONITORING MURDERABILIA SALES: Again, this is just the beginning of the merchandising and marketing of Casey Anthony. I wouldn`t bet -- down the road, you`re probably going to see her on a pest dispenser, a key chain, a snow globe. I`m sure some manufacturer right now is producing Casey Anthony action figures.
I just -- the life of me, I just can`t figure it out. The harsh reality is this is all off the death of 2-year-old Caylee Marie, the forgotten element in all of this cash flow.
LALAMA: Absolutely. And, Ellie, didn`t you mention to me earlier something about someone wants the car, there is a Halloween mask, what about all this?
JOSTAD: Right, right. Well, there were reports that there were offers coming in to buy that car, that`s the car that various members of law enforcement testified smelled like human decomposition.
The prosecution alleged that the body of Caylee had been in that car. There is offers out there apparently people wanting to buy it. George and Cindy`s attorney had said that they want to get all that evidence back so they can prevent something like that from happening.
What about that Halloween mask? You`re right. There is a mask for sale on eBay. When I looked right before we came down to the control room. There were bids for almost $700 for a mask of Casey Anthony`s face.
LALAMA: Unbelievable. Leslie Austin, what kind of a person wants to buy the car that had the smell of death?
AUSTIN: A twisted person who is also after big bucks. I don`t mean to keep being the heavy tonight, but we really are forgetting what`s important here. This is all blood money. It`s all cheap tactics, cheap fame, lots of money. And we are forgetting that a little child whose death is unavenged here is the point. Somebody somewhere, please use the situation to do something good to help parents whose children are missing. Do something good out of this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can absolutely 100 percent tell you that that is not her.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Whisked away after her first taste of freedom. Her whereabouts unknown.
CHENEY MASON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She`s safe. She`s protected. Nobody will find her.
BAEZ: We`re trying to handle Casey`s affairs in a dignified manner.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who will get the first interview with Casey Anthony?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Interviews can wait.
CASEY ANTHONY: That`s exactly what I`ve been saying.
CASAREZ: Casey Anthony wants to go into therapy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve thought about adopting which even sounds weird to me saying it.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Will therapy work for someone like Casey Anthony?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are not honest in therapy.
CASEY ANTHONY: I lied.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just like they`re not honest in the community.
CASAREZ: But there are so many children that deserve to be loved.
CASEY ANTHONY: That was a lie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Usually therapy -- individual therapy does not work for people like Casey Anthony.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Ray Giudice, I want to ask you. George Anthony has denied that he ever molested his child Casey. Could he file some sort of suit against her? I mean his life --
GIUDICE: Well --
LALAMA: Whether he did or didn`t his life is ruined perhaps.
GIUDICE: Well, let`s say not only he`s always denied it. There`s not one shred of evidence that it ever happened. So let`s start from that position. Could he sue for slander and libel? It`s very difficult. Most in court talk conversation, opening and closing statements and arguments, is protected free speech. He would not have a strong case.
LALAMA: Ellie Jostad, very quickly, Casey apparently talking about having another child. What do you know?
JOSTAD: Right. This is in the jail letters that she wrote to another inmate named Robin Adams. She says that she wants to adopt a child. She talks about how there are children and teens that need good homes. And the "Enquirer", too, has reported that`s part of her whole plan for this new life. Have another baby.
LALAMA: Wow. Michael Christian, what do you think about that? What do you know about that?
CHRISTIAN: You know, she`s got a right to have a baby if she wants to. And we may not like it but we don`t control her reproductive system. She has the right to have a baby. Certainly if that happens and people know where she are -- where she is, she`s going to be watched very carefully. The first time there`s any, any suspicion that something is wrong, people are going to come down on her like a wall of bricks. But whether we like it or not, that`s something that she`s got a right to do.
LALAMA: Absolutely.
Tonight let`s stop to remember Army Private 1st Class Dean Bright, 32 years old from Roseburg, Oregon. Killed in Iraq. He was awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Good Conduct Medal, Iraq Campaign Medal, and Global War on Terrorism Service medal.
He enjoyed fishing, camping, working with kids, riding four-wheelers, and spending time with his two young children and his sister. He was honored and proud to serve his country. He leaves behind his parents, Bob and Norma, children, Jared and Mattie, sister, Sandra, grandparents Tinkbelle (ph) and Darlene. And his niece Maya and nephew Evans.
Dean Bright, a true American hero.
Thank you so much for being with us tonight. A special happy birthday to Florida friend of the show, Milly.
Happy birthday, Milly.
I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy. Thank you so much, Nancy.
All of you have a great evening. We`ll be back tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. sharp Eastern. Good night, everybody.
END
