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Nancy Grace
Search for Missing Missouri 3-Year-Old
Aired August 08, 2011 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Bombshell tonight. We are live in America`s heartland. A 3-year-old little girl riding her pink bike, training wheels still attached, gone, vanished, without a trace, she and the bike snatched directly in front of her parents` own home, the search in full gear, the search by air, by land, by water for the little girl on the pink bike.
Tonight, where is 3-year-old Breeann?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Urgent search under way for 3-year-old toddler Breeann.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police just don`t have a lot of clues.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three-year-old Breeann vanished Saturday afternoon from outside her Missouri home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was out riding her bicycle with her brother. Her brother went inside the house for a moment. The bike was gone. She was gone. The trail goes cold.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dressed in a pink top and pink shorts, her hair in pigtails. Neighbors of the tight-knit community say they noticed nothing unusual Saturday along the dead-end street where Breeann had been playing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More than 200 people are searching near Senath on the ground. There were helicopters over the air, people knocking on doors, handing out flyers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Local police and the FBI say no tip is too small to help find missing toddler Breeann.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re working to try to find this toddler and bring her home safely.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is 3-year-old Breeann?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, reports tot mom caught -- caught! -- living in the lap of luxury, kicked back in a $5.2 million mansion, Rancho Santa Fe, California. Median cost of a home there, $3 million! Average income, nearly a quarter million dollars a year! Tot mom`s new digs, complete with helipad, infinity (ph) pool, tennis court, luxury SUVs, full-time bodyguards. Was that helipads? Yes, helipads! The only people I know with their own helipad in the back yard are Celine Dion, Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. And of course, now tot mom! And they say crime doesn`t pay! Well, they`re wrong!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Alleged reports that Casey is holed up in a multi-million-dollar hideout.
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: That would be pretty much on the money.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where`s my check?
LARRY FLYNT, "HUSTLER" MAGAZINE: If they want to get their hands on big money, they got to go through me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blood money off of the death of a 2-year-old.
FLYNT: Anything else that they get paid will be chicken feed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "No matter how much money I have someday, all I want to do is live comfortably."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey can now afford a nanny.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what people want to see.
JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: The nonsense stops right now!
CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t want to hear of this media (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are no clear-cut answers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) microphone in my face one more time...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You just hit him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... somebody`s going to get hurt!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a mess.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony walking around some town in Ohio.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe it looks like her. Eyebrows, chin, the nose, they line up very close.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over 80 percent likelihood.
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, that`s good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. We are live in America`s heartland, a 3-year- old little girl riding her pink bike, the training wheels still attached, gone. She`s vanished without a trace, and apparently snatched directly in front of her parents` own home. Tonight, where is 3-year-old Breeann?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is 3-year-old Breeann?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last seen riding a pink bicycle outside her Missouri home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wearing bright pink shirt, bright pink pants, a bright pink bicycle. It had training wheels.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her brother went inside the house for a moment. He came out and couldn`t find her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say they`re treating the case as an abduction but that they`re at a dead end after following all leads.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a major state highway.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Less than a mile away from her house. And if there was an abduction, it would have been an easy exit, an easy escape route for whoever had taken her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Neighbors of the tight-knit community say they noticed nothing unusual.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The trail goes cold from there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. We are taking you straight out live now to the heartland and to Todd Bonacki with KZIM. Todd, thank you for being with us. I don`t understand how at high noon, lunchtime, a 3-year- old little girl who was just with her 5-year-old brother there out in the front yard playing on their bicycles -- she disappears and her pink bike disappears, too.
TODD BONACKI, KZIM NEWS RADIO (via telephone): It makes no sense, Nancy. And you know, this is the second bombshell, and the bombshell is the operative word for this area in the last two months. You know the mysterious disappearance of Jackie Sue Waller. That happened in Jackson, Missouri, 80 miles south.
Over the weekend, we learn of another mysterious disappearance, this time a 3-year-old girl in a town of 1,600 people, a typical Midwestern town, and this girl vanishes without a trace, playing outside with her brother, high noon. It was 90 degrees. It was a hot, sunny, summery day. Her brother goes inside for about 20 minutes, Nancy. Little Breeann is out by herself with her bicycle.
He comes back. He`s looking for her. And she`s gone without a trace. It`s just as if a Midwest tornado came down her street and swept her and her bicycle away.
GRACE: Everyone, we are live there in Missouri. We`re taking your calls, Todd Bonacki joining us from KZIM. Take a look at this 3-year-old little girl. She, of course, is dressed in pink and purple, her favorite colors. She`s with her 5-year-old brother. Mommy and Daddy are home inside. Everything`s fine. They go back out, she`s gone, apparently snatched from in front of their own home, and also taken, the bicycle, the pink bicycle.
Now, we`ve had one false lead, where a similar bike was spotted. Cops showed up. It wasn`t her bicycle, according to her family, it just looked like it.
Dana, let me see the bike again. The tip line 314-791-1205 -- 791- 1205. The bike, Dana, the bicycle! Age 3, Senath, Missouri. There`s a $25,000 reward.
I want to find out about the terrain. Back to KZIM`s Todd Bonacki. Todd, tell me, is it like one neighborhood after the next after the next after the next, everybody`s got a cul-de-sac, and one neighborhood kind of blends into the next? Or are we talking about dense woods? Is there a body of water? Is it farmland?
BONACKI: This is as flat as it gets, Nancy. There are corn rows surrounding. There are cotton fields, which are grown down in this part of the Missouri bootheel. And you can see for miles. This is not a posh suburb of a major city, this is rural, Midwest, mid-America, a town of 16,000 people. And the street where she disappeared is a dead end, and it goes into farmland with corn rows...
GRACE: OK, listen, Todd -- Todd! I got to clarify something. You know, "farmland" -- let`s be specific. Help me out, Todd. OK, farmland could mean anything from cotton to wheat. It could be potatoes, which are underground. It could mean anything. Are you telling me it absolutely is corn? And if so, how tall is the corn? Is she out in the middle of one of these fields?
BONACKI: That we don`t know. We know there are cotton and corn fields that surround her street. If she got disoriented, if she got lost and is missing her family somewhere in the middle of these farm fields, at this point, police are looking and scouring for any clues.
GRACE: Have they brought out the dogs, Todd Bonacki?
BONACKI: The dogs are out. The planes are out. The helicopters are out, everybody and anything, 200 people, Nancy, this weekend, including her family and nearby friends, helped in a massive search effort. They brought everything out with no trace. It`s, again, a mystery to everybody.
GRACE: Joining me right now is a special guest. That is a special agent in charge with the FBI Dennis Baker. Agent, thank you for being with us. What can you tell me about the search, Dennis?
DENNIS BAKER, FBI ST. LOUIS DIV., SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE (via telephone): Well, I can tell you that within five minutes of Breeann being reported missing, the local police department was on the scene and they started conducting a search. So there was no -- really, no time lag from the time she was reported missing to the time that we had people -- the police department had people there looking for her physically. So if she was lost, then they responded pretty quickly.
GRACE: OK, but here`s my concern. With me is Dennis Baker, the FBI special agent in charge. Within five minutes after she was reported missing, the cops are there. But how long was it from the time the 5-year- old brother comes in from playing outside until when they find out she`s gone? How many minutes passed then?
BAKER: Well, Nancy, that was about 30 minutes.
GRACE: So we`re now approaching 35 minutes, and that is an estimate. They don`t really know how long. They can`t pinpoint how long from the time he came in to the time he left. Now, let me ask you this. With me is Dennis Baker from the FBI. He`s the special agent in charge. Dennis, I understand that there are registered sex offenders in the area. Have they been tracked down and questioned?
BAKER: Yes. That`s in progress, and that`s a typical response to a situation like this, where we automatically do those interviews.
GRACE: OK, so the answer to that is yes. I understand that you guys have also gone into all the homes in the neighborhood. Everybody, minutes count in a case like this. Hold on, FBI agent Dennis Baker. I want to go to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation, joining us out of San Francisco.
Marc, minutes literally count in a case like this. We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl, everybody, about the age of John David and Lucy, my twins. She`s without with her 5-year-old little brother. They`re in a cul-de-sac, a very safe neighborhood, a rural area, a residential neighborhood in a rural area, very low crime rate. She`s out in front of the home with her brother. She`s gone. Three-year-old Breeann is gone. She could be alive. Right now as you are hearing our telecast, this girl could be alive, and she could be found.
Marc Klaas, I hate to curse on TV, but what the hell? There`s not an Amber Alert? What is wrong?
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, there was not an Amber Alert because they didn`t -- first of all, they don`t have any proof that there was an abduction of any kind. They have no vehicle information. But I would counsel parents that wherever you live, you don`t leave a little girl outside...
GRACE: Wait a minute!
KLAAS: -- by herself unsupervised.
GRACE: Hold on, Marc.
KLAAS: Yes?
GRACE: Back it up!
KLAAS: Sure.
GRACE: There`s no proof she`s been kidnapped. OK. Is she at home right now, sitting at the family table, having dinner or having her bath, getting ready for bed? That`s a yes, no. Is she, Marc?
KLAAS: No, she`s not.
GRACE: OK. Do you know where she is. Do the police know where she is? Do her parents know where she is?
KLAAS: The police...
GRACE: No!
KLAAS: ... don`t know where she is. I don`t know where she is. I don`t know what her parents know.
GRACE: OK. So she`s gone.
KLAAS: I don`t know what her parents know. Nancy, maybe the parents aren`t telling the whole truth here? Have you thought about that?
GRACE: No, we don`t know that, but...
KLAAS: It`s a possibility.
GRACE: ... the reality is, she`s gone.
KLAAS: Yes.
GRACE: Whether the parents are involved, not involved, whether it`s a neighbor, she`s gone. And yet they are withholding the Amber Alert, where someone may have seen her or her bike, somebody, somewhere, whether it`s the parents, the neighbor, I don`t care who it is, the guy in the raincoat from New York City who`s come down here to steal somebody -- I don`t know. But I don`t know why they can`t give an Amber Alert!
KLAAS: Information was released about this case almost immediately. Whether they call it an Amber Alert or not, the public and the media and other law enforcement agencies...
GRACE: OK, you know what?
KLAAS: ... were notified almost immediately on this.
GRACE: You say potato, I say potato! This girl is gone! WE have time now to find her! She`s 3 years old, her pink bike, training wheels still attached! Tip line 314-791-1205. There`s a $25,000 reward.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know that 3-year-old Breeann was riding her bicycle, and police say the trail goes cold from there.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Local police and the FBI say no tip is too small to help find missing toddler Breeann.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) now that her street in Senath had a dead end, and where it exited was into a farm field.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say they`re treating the case as an abduction. Neighbors of the tight-knit community say they noticed nothing unusual.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her brother went inside the house for a minute. He came out and couldn`t find her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Riding a pink bicycle with training wheels.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People know each other. They know their business.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Dressed in a pink top and pink shorts, her hair in pigtails.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are looking out for each other and they`re all scratching their heads, looking for some sort of answers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, well, let`s quit scratching our heads and get busy. There`s a search by ground, by air, by water. Dogs have been brought out. Where is 3-year-old Breeann? This little girl, 3 years old, high noon -- all she was out doing was riding her bike with her 5-year-old brother, her pink bike, the training wheels still attached to the back. The little boy comes in. Thirty minutes later, they realize, Where is Breeann? Why isn`t she with the brother?
We are taking your calls live. I want to go straight out to Matt Zarrell. Matt, let`s go back at the beginning. Take it from the top. Tell me exactly what happened, and don`t leave anything out.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: OK. Breeann, 3-year-old, she`s out. She`s in the bicycle right in front of her house. This is a dead-end street. Her dad says she never goes past the dead-end street. That`s the only place she rides the bicycle.
So she goes out. She`s riding the bicycle with her 5-year-old brother. What happens is, is that the brother leaves to go into the house, from what we understand for about 20 minutes, comes back out, and Breeann is gone. There`s no sign of her.
Now, one thing that`s very significant, Nancy, is they just held a press conference just a short time ago and announced that evidence has been sent to the crime lab for testing. They put a rush on it. We don`t know exactly what that evidence is, but we can only imagine, hopefully, it`ll lead to finding Breeann.
GRACE: OK, back to Todd Bonacki with KZIM. Todd, evidence has been found. Do we know what it is?
BONACKI: We have no idea at this point, Nancy. I don`t know what kind, if maybe she left something behind. I got to tell you, wearing a bright pink shirt, pink pants, pigtails and a bright pink bicycle, you would stick out like the North Star. And somebody somewhere had to have seen something.
GRACE: Out to the lines. To Edith in Massachusetts. Hi, Edith. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: Hi, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s so nice to have you back. We missed you.
GRACE: It`s nice to be back. I missed you, too, especially in the middle of this Warren Jeffs trial.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes. Definitely.
GRACE: Have you seen those photos of that perv holding the 12-year- old little girl in the wedding photo? We should have a sentence coming down tomorrow on that. Yes, I was gone two weeks, and all hell broke loose. What about this case, Edith? What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, do you know if they have a person of interest and if they gave them a lie detector test?
GRACE: Good question. What do we know, Matt Zarrell? I don`t think there`s a POI, a person of interest, yet, is there?
ZARRELL: Nancy, they actually did have one. There was a driver of a white van...
GRACE: I mean now!
ZARRELL: ... that may have been seen in the area -- right now, there is no person of interest. The person of interest, the driver of the van has been cleared.
GRACE: So what was that all about? To you, special agent, FBI Dennis Baker. They saw a van in the area and they tracked the van down and the guy was cleared?
BAKER: Exactly right, yes. Had early leads for that -- go look for a white van. That van was quickly located. That person was questioned and he has been released.
GRACE: And Matt Zarrell, what about lie detectors? Has everybody in the family taken a lie detector test? And has their home been searched?
ZARRELL: Nancy, their home has been searched. All the homes in the area have been searched. Cops will not comment on lie detectors.
GRACE: At this hour, there is a chance this girl can be found alive. Where is 3-year-old Breeann, swiped from in front of her house, along with her pink bike?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An urgent search under way for 3-year-old toddler Breeann.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was about 90 degrees.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last seen riding a pink bicycle outside her Missouri home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your girls (SIC). A 3-year-old girl out of Missouri missing. I want to go back to special agent Dennis Baker. Dennis, what can you tell me about the FBI`s new app?
BAKER: Well, we have a new app that came out last Friday that works on Apple iPhones. And on this app, you can store photographs of your child and other information. And if your child is missing, then you can get that information directly to a department, to the FBI within minutes.
GRACE: How do we get the app?
BAKER: You can go to FBI.gov, and the app is located there.
GRACE: What about it, Marc Klaas?
KLAAS: Well, I`ve actually downloaded it, although I don`t have children. I think it`s a very good app. It can also be picked up at the Apple app store. And I do believe there`s a version...
GRACE: Right.
KLAAS: ... available for Android phones, as well.
GRACE: Everybody, take a look at this little girl. They did not have the FBI app that Marc Klaas and Dennis Baker are telling you about. This girl with her ponytails and her pink outfit, her pink bike, swiped, stolen from in front of her family`s own home. Neither she nor the bike have been found, not even a trace.
Out to special guest Dr. Dorothy Wiggins, pediatrician, joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Dr. Wiggins, her father told police that she would go with just about anybody. Is that normal for a 3-year-old?
DR. DOROTHY WIGGINS, PEDIATRICIAN: Most 3-year-olds are not going to just go with anyone. They`re pretty secure with their family. But it can happen. They are becoming, you know, more personal (ph) at that time, and if you have a jovial 3-year-old, that could definitely happen.
GRACE: You know, this was right in front of their house, Doctor, right in front of their house, in their yard, actually. You would think the child would be safe in the yard.
WIGGINS: Yes, you would, and you would think that she is following a normal path that she always takes, like her dad alluded to, and in a very comfortable setting. So absolutely, you would think that a 3-year-old would be safe in front of yard. However, we see the scenario...
GRACE: To Woodrow Tripp, former police commander. Weigh in, Woody.
WOODROW TRIPP, FMR. POLICE COMMANDER: ... Nancy, several things here. And from an investigator`s standpoint, as I look at this, you`re talking about a bicycle was also taken. That`s very significant because it indicates to me that there`s more than one person. It also indicates that she may have been targeted.
GRACE: What do you mean more than one person and targeted?
TRIPP: Well, if she was picked up, someone else had to get that bike. There`s too much time that`s going to elapse there with one person trying to deal with all that. So it indicates to me that two people may have been involved in this.
GRACE: Three-year-old Breeann and her pink bike, training wheels still attached, 34 inches tall, just 30 pounds, her hair in pigtails, brown eyes, pink shirt, pink and purple shorts, pink bike with training wheels. Tip line, 314-791-1205. There is time to bring home Breeann alive.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Where is Casey Anthony now?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A big question for weeks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a walking, living soap opera.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Where is Casey Anthony?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: One of the questions is where is she?
CHIEF JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, CIRCUIT JUDGE, ORANGE COUNTY: I just don`t know the answer at this time. I just don`t.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The alleged reports that Casey is holed up in a multimillion dollar hideout.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is confusing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where the hell have you all come from? Ohio?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: New video has hit TMZ.com of Casey Anthony walking around some town in Ohio.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe it looks like her.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Over 80 percent likelihood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The eyebrows, chin, the nose, they line up very close.
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: That would be pretty much on the money.
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S LEAD DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I want her to somehow get her life back together.
CASEY ANTHONY: Money, money, money.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Here we go again with Casey Anthony.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: Other (INAUDIBLE) has that national coverage.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Lots of money.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Who is going to pay tot mom blood money?
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Reports surfacing that all those photos of tot mom in Ohio where she`s walking down the street, where the Starbucks in a residential area, it`s all staged. The closest Starbucks to where she was walking is two miles. She`s walking in flip-flops. Then she goes into an Old Navy or a GAP or something like that, and then stands at the front window, the glass window for a really long time so the photos could be taken.
Possibly raking in up to $500,000 for those photos. And now she`s gone. Reports say she is living in a $5.2 million mansion complete with infinity pool. Got to investigate, what`s that. Infinity pool, luxury SUVs, body guards and a helipad.
Yes, like Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie and Celine Dion, out in Vegas. She`s got a helipad. And they say crime doesn`t pay.
To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer, what do you know, Ellie?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, this is a home that is apparently owned by Todd Macaluso. He was a former member of the defense team. There are local reports that people have actually seen this home which had been unoccupied as far as the neighborhoods knew. He actually had put it up on the market.
But they had seen some activity around there, cars coming and going, and apparently -- no, we can`t confirm this, but some people claim they have seen Casey Anthony living at this house with two body guards.
GRACE: OK. Back it up, Dean. I want to see all these photos.
Tell me again about the house, Ellie.
JOSTAD: Yes. This is a five-bedroom, 5 1/2 bath house. It`s on the market for $5.2 million. It has a pool, it has a helipad. I mean take a look at this place. It`s a -- you know, a compound. It`s a huge property there near the beach in Rancho Santa Fe, California.
GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Alexis Tereszcuk, Radaronline.com
What exactly is an infinity pool?
ALEXIS TERESZCUK, REPORTER, RADAROLINE.COM: So it`s a pool that goes to the edge and it looks like it falls off the edge of the earth. It`s very fancy. You see this really in like very, very luxurious five-star hotels around the world. The Four Seasons would have an infinity pool. It looks like there`s no edge to it and the water just goes on for infinity.
It overlooks the ocean. It seems that -- you know, the pool and the ocean are one. This is an incredibly luxurious house. Casey is living in the lap of luxury if she`s at this house.
GRACE: OK. So I`m taking care of the twins all day, praise the lord, and then I`m working all night and tot mom is floating around in an infinity pool. At a $5.2 million mansion.
OK. I want to talk about these Ohio photos. The Ohio photos. We`re not showing them.
Dean, come to my ear. How much were they asking to show those photos? Was it $50,000 to show the photos one time? Listening, not hearing. Twenty-five, $25,000.
Now how does it go, Ellie? Is it every time somebody uses the photos, if these photos were staged by tot mom, she would likely get a cut of that?
JOSTAD: Well, right. There was an article that "Forbes" actually did a really good analysis of this. The way it works is, she would -- if she was in on the staging of these photos, she`d say, meet me at such and such a place, I`ll let you get a nice shot of me.
Then every time that video is licensed or those photos are sold, she gets a cut. They believe she can get up to 75 percent every time that photo is sold to any news network, any other agency for reprint. In addition to whatever she would get up front just for agreeing to have her photo taken.
GRACE: So if we show the photos, then that money is very likely going right in tot mom`s back pocket.
OK, don`t anybody show the photos in the New York control room. Don`t, don`t do it.
I want to go to Michael Christian, senior field producer, "In Session."
Michael, what do you know about these reports that she`s hiding out in Rancho Santa Fe? There`s a beach there. What do you know?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, "IN SESSION": Apparently some people claimed that they have seen her. You know this is apparently near San Diego, Nancy. It`s in Southern California. It`s a beautiful area. It`s not only a private home that`s obviously very luxurious, but apparently it`s gated and it`s on a private road.
Because one photograph who went to take pictures just so of the house was told by a sheriff he had to leave since it was private property including the road. So it`s a very, very upscale area.
GRACE: Joining me right now is Dawn Olsen. She`s the news editor at the "Morton Report" who reported the recent tot mom sighting at a $5.2 million estate.
Dawn, thank you for being with us.
DAWN OLSEN, REPORTED RECENT TOT MOM SIGHTING AT $5.2 MILLION ESTATE: Hi, Nancy, I`m glad to be here.
GRACE: Well, I`m glad to have you. What do you know about this?
OLSEN: Well, according to one of our news reporters, she was at a dinner party on Friday night and the woman who was hosting the party, her parents live in this area, and it was brought up in discussion that people in the area had seen sightings of Casey and she was able to provide me the address, and she was able to tie it into Todd Macaluso, the former attorney for Casey Anthony`s defense team.
And we -- when we posted the report, you know, obviously we were not in the location, but another reporter also went to the location, and what they said was they rang on the intercom, you know, like the other reporter said, it`s a gated community, you couldn`t just go up to the front door.
There`s an intercom. They rang the intercom and a woman, or, as he described it, a woman or a drunken woman or a small child answered the door. So whoever, you know, answered the intercom, was not somebody that they could identify directly as Casey.
GRACE: Or a dog. Somebody disguising their voice?
OLSEN: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
OLSEN: It was implied that it was --
GRACE: That they can`t decide if it`s a drunk woman or a small child.
OLSEN: Yes. It was of a suspicious origin. They were attempting to open the gate and then suddenly the person who was, you know, investigating this, heard an admonishment, the gate closed and all communications were cut off.
They thought it was very suspicious, but they were not able to confirm actually physically seeing her at the location. It makes perfect sense that she`d be there after -- if she really was spot in Ohio, she`s probably jumping around the country, trying to hide and waiting her time to get that million-dollar interview.
GRACE: And what do we know right now, Alexis Tereszcuk? The reports that TMZ has actually gotten the first interview or will have the first tot mom interview?
TERESZCUK: I think that they`ve actually denied that. That they are not going to do the first interview. And they`re still saying that the networks are bidding for Casey. As of right now everyone is saying no, we`re not paying a dime for this interview, but they might still pay for pictures or videos so there still could be Casey Anthony on television. People might --
GRACE: We are --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: We are taking your calls, everybody. Out to Elizabeth in South Carolina.
Hi, Elizabeth, what`s your question?
ELIZABETH, CALLER FROM SOUTH CAROLINA: Well, Nancy, thank you first for having me on the show. I watch you faithfully every night.
GRACE: Thank you.
ELIZABETH: And I have followed this story -- you`re welcome. I have followed this morning since the beginning. I`m absolutely disgusted at the treatment she seems to be getting. But I still don`t understand how she completed her probation by holding down a job and staying away from known felons while she was behind bars.
GRACE: You know what? I agree with you. Let`s get an explanation of that, Michael Christian? How did she do probation behind bars? And why hasn`t she been hauled back into an Orlando courtroom on probation?
CHRISTIAN: Yes, it is completely counterintuitive. However, we have been told by many attorneys in the state of Florida it is not that uncommon for people to do their probation while they`re in jail. As in this case. So even though it doesn`t sound like it could possibly be in the way it should be, that`s apparently not terribly uncommon in Florida.
GRACE: Well, if it`s so common, Michael Christian, how come Judge Belvin Perry hasn`t figured it out yet? He`s a smart guy. If it`s so common, why is it such a big legal morass?
CHRISTIAN: It`s not a morass because it`s uncommon. It`s a morass because it doesn`t go along with what the original judge, Stan Strickland, wanted. That`s the problem.
GRACE: You`re darn right it doesn`t.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: Casey Marie Anthony.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: Can I -- can I ask you something?
PERRY: And you realize that there are folks out there that want to do crazy things?
CASEY ANTHONY: It`s a possibility.
PERRY: Fillet open someone, pour salt on that person, and feed their legs to a pariah?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Bella vita. Beautiful life. We`ve got California.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And why was the little girl`s body thrown away?
CASEY ANTHONY: I haven`t been crying while I`ve been in here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fact that it`s tossed in a field to rot in bags.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And there was no type of emotion whatsoever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If anything, we saw a couple of smiles and a couple of smirks, and no tears.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a very big red flag for homicide.
CASEY ANTHONY: I actually feel extremely guilty.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are taking your calls. Tot mom reportedly surfacing in one of the most exclusive enclaves in the entire country. Rancho Santa Fe. I went there one time for a business meeting and it was at a home where they had to use walkie-talkies to talk to each other in the home.
OK, and they -- the parents` bedroom was in one wing and you actually had to walk outside through a courtyard to get to the children`s room.
Rancho Santa Fe average house about $3 million. Average median income nearly $250 million. And according to reports, tot mom there, right now floating around in an infinity pool near her helipad.
I want to talk again about those Ohio pictures that seem to be faked. Now, Ellie Jostad, tell me about the -- not faked by staged.
JOSTAD: Right.
GRACE: Explain to me why so many people think those photos were staged of tot mom in Ohio?
JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, when I look at the video, the reason it looks staged to me is because she`s very clearly walking along, as "Forbes" pointed out, nobody goes up to her, the photographer that`s taking it doesn`t yell at her, doesn`t ask -- yell out any questions.
She`s standing for a long time in the window so they can get a very clear shot of her shopping. And there`s also a shot of her walking down a residential street carrying a Starbucks cup but the closest Starbucks from where she is about two miles away. So it just doesn`t seem to make sense this route she`s taking around what we believe is Columbus, Ohio.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, joining us, Boston, Peter Elikann, defense attorney and author of "Superpredators." Stacy Schneider, defense attorney, New York.
Peter Elikann, give me one reason she should not be reporting to an Orlando courtroom for probation?
PETER ELIKANN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "SUPERPREDATORS": Nancy, you know, I think that it`s outrageous that she`s done her probation behind the prison walls. I mean the point of probation is that they want to -- have a supervision of you and also help with re-entering.
However, the fact that she`s already done her probation -- it was a snafu, bureaucratic snafu, nothing that she caused, I don`t see how they can have her do a repeat. She`s already completed the legal probation. Now let`s have a redo. So it`s not her fault and I think it`s outrageous - -
GRACE: OK. Stacy --
ELIKANN: -- that she did a probation back there.
GRACE: Go ahead, Stacy.
STACY SCHNEIDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Florida is a quirky state. Anywhere else in the country, she`d have t do that term of probation. She didn`t serve her debt to the community or attempt to be rehabilitated by sitting in jail and not reporting to a probation officer and not getting mandatory drug treatment and not getting mandatory mental health counseling.
That Judge Perry should do something about it. And he -- I`m glad he`s taking the time to make a decision -- a correct decision because that`s going to go up on appeal if this doesn`t go away.
GRACE: Right.
To Dr. Helen Morrison, forensic psychiatrist and author of "My Life among Serial Killers."
Dr. Helen Morrison, here`s our first problem on probation. She`s lied about having a job for five years that we know of. And now she`s going to get a job? That`s not going to happen.
DR. HELEN MORRISON, M.D., FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR, "MY LIFE AMONG THE SERIAL KILLERS": Never. It`s never going to happen. She`s not in any way, shape or form either intelligent enough or motivated enough. Why should she? I mean she`s got everything in the palm of her hands right now. She doesn`t need a menial job.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Amy in Ohio.
Hi, Amy, what`s your question?
AMY, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi, Nancy. I seriously love you. You are my hero and you give a voice to the voiceless and there just -- there needs to be more like you, there really does.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you.
AMY: My question is, I know it wouldn`t do anything right now, but couldn`t, like, her dad, how he jerked, like, (INAUDIBLE) that he molested her and her brother. Couldn`t they view (INAUDIBLE) lie detector test to kind of proof themselves right and prove that she lied about it?
GRACE: Well, unfortunately, I hate it to break to you, Amy. You can`t force anyone to take a lie detector test, either in criminal or in a case if her father sued her for defamation, for slander, you can`t force anybody to take a lie detector test.
You know if you could do that, hey, why don`t you just shoot them up with sodium pentothal and get the truth out of them.
Not under our Constitution. I only wish, Amy.
To Shell in New Mexico. Hi, Shell, what`s your question?
SHELL, CALLER FROM NEW MEXICO: Well, I have two brief questions.
GRACE: OK.
SHELL: First I`d love to know who`s funding her gallivanting across the country and putting her up in expensive houses, somebody has got to be paying for this if she`s claiming that she has no money, as well as can`t - - how can Jose broker deals for her on books and interviews if he`s a criminal attorney? Isn`t that a conflict of interest?
GRACE: What about it? What about it, Peter Elikann? Is it?
ELIKANN: No, I don`t think it`s an conflict of interest, but it`s kind of unusual. I mean I`ve certainly don`t have any of my clients come live with me, but then I`m king of a recluse. But it is kind of unusual.
I think that there really is safety concerns from her. I mean there`s death threats all the time. They`re actually beating up women on American streets who look like her. So I think -- actually I bring up a larger issue.
Why are journalists trying to finger her and show everybody where she`s staying with all these death threats? What are the doing? Saying to the public, here`s she is, go have at her?
GRACE: OK, you know that`s interesting that you would say all these death threats because, Michael Christian, according to the Orange County Sheriffs, they had no credible death threats against tot mom.
CHRISTIAN: At the time that she was released from jail, Nancy, they investigated because her defense said, yes, she has -- definitely received death threats. They investigated those threats and at that time they decided that none of those threats were credible.
Now her defense attorneys say that the threats have continued since she was released. They included an Internet death threat with their petition to have her motion quashed that she needed to come for probation.
It showed a photograph of her with a bullet hole in her forehead. And text underneath that said something to the effect that she had such a big forehead it was going to be an easy target. Something like that. So they say that these threats continue.
I have to say it`s interesting, Judge Perry, when we had the hearing on Friday, that was one of the things that he asked about, was safety. That is definitely something that I think he`s going to take into consideration when he makes his decision here.
He`s got other things to consider as well, obviously. But I think safety is one of the things. And you have to remember he`s the one who didn`t reveal the juror names until this coming October because of their safety.
GRACE: Right.
To Alexis Tereszcuk, Radaronline.com. Back to these Ohio photos. The caller wants to know who`s funding her lifestyle. Now the Ohio photos could have netted her around a half a million dollars, if it is in fact her, which most experts say it is, they obviously were staged. So how much would she make on shots like those, Alexis?
TERESZCUK: You`re absolutely right. She could make as much as up to $500,000 and we`ve spoken about people $1 million. Every time it gets shown she`s going to get a cut of the money. It`s very lucrative for Casey to do this. It`s probably one of the best ways she can make money without actually talking to anybody or really letting anybody know that she did the deal.
Unless somebody -- unless Casey comes out or the agency comes out and says yes, we did it. We set up the thing. It`s all confidential. And so nobody will know. But it seems like her defense team is actually funding everything. They paid for --
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Well, maybe they`re getting a cut. Maybe they`re getting a cut.
TERESZCUK: Absolutely.
GRACE: Of whatever she`s selling.
TERESZCUK: Absolutely.
GRACE: You know, interesting to Dawn Olsen, news editor of the "Morton Report." All the networks are saying no, we`re not going to pay for her interview. Come on. You know is she that radioactive they`re not going to do the interview? Are they going to pay her under the table? How`s it going to shake out, Dawn Olsen?
OLSEN: Well, I think it`s interesting that TMZ and Clash seem -- somehow broker the deal to get these photos out of there while Harvey Levin of TMZ is saying no way, no how would I ever pay for an interview with Casey Anthony.
However, if you`re running photos, there`s clearly a market and an interest in this. And I believe that absolutely someone somewhere, whether it`d be a large network or one of these smaller online news sites, are going to come up with the funds because it`s going to be a big draw whether people --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It was kind of like watching a sequel as we saw Jose Baez, Judge Belvin Perry.
PERRY: It is a mess.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Back to court to fight for their client Casey Anthony.
BAEZ: When did you terminate Miss Anthony`s probation?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was terminated on January 24th, 2011.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls live and very quickly, Woody Tripp, you`re a former police commander. You and I have tried a lot of the same people. You in the witness stand, me behind the table. Have you heard of probation being served while somebody is in jail?
WOODY TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: No, Nancy. Absolutely not. That`s the whole point of probation or parole, is when you`re out.
GRACE: What is going on down in Florida? First the jury verdict now this. They can`t even get her on probation?
TRIPP: I think it`s almost the American unjustice system at this point.
GRACE: Whoa. And we thought California was crazy.
Kathy in Missouri, hi, Kathy, what`s your question?
KATHY, CALLER FROM MISSOURI: Hi. I don`t know if you remember. During the trial in the middle when two jurors came back and they wanted to see a picture again? I have always wondered why that hasn`t been thought of as a mistrial because if two jurors are coming back and asked them to see the exact same picture, they had to have talked?
GRACE: Well, of course they talked during jury deliberations. And I`ve had jurors ask for the same evidence repeatedly. But you know what, Kathy? I don`t fault you for trying to figure out what went wrong. I think you and most of America has been wondering that.
Everybody, let`s stop and remember Marine Sergeant Jillian Arichaga, 23, Oceanside, New York, killed Iraq. On a third tour. Also served Afghanistan. Awarded Purple Heart, Navy and Marine Corps Commendation.
Loved wrestling, music, martial arts. Leaves behind grieving sister, Salah (ph), nieces Alexandra and Eva, nephew Jillian, named in his honor. Lost his live just four months after his mother Myrna have passed away from breast cancer.
Jillian Arichaga, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us.
And happy birthday to Georgia friend Eva Scott, a miracle surviving a brain aneurysm. Loves church, crafts, "Jeopardy," "Wheel of Fortune." Her true loves, daughters Brenda and Moira, Bonnie and Teresa, dogs Mattie and Percy.
Happy birthday.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
