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Jane Velez-Mitchell
Casey Anthony Ordered to Complete Probation
Aired August 12, 2011 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a Casey Anthony shocker. The ruling has come in. The most hated person in America must report back to Orlando to begin serving probation. Is Orlando`s court system sticking it to Casey because the prosecution lost? You won`t believe how the judge lashes out at Jose Baez.
ISSUES starts now.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STAN STRICKLAND, JUDGE: I sentence Ms. Anthony to time served, which again, is 412 days, followed by one year of supervised probation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was a vindictive sentence based on his disapproval of the jury`s findings.
BELVIN PERRY, JUDGE: If anything could go wrong, it went wrong here.
CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED OF MURDER: I take complete and full responsibility for my actions.
PERRY: I`ll be frank and honest. I don`t know what I`m going to do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is done. This is over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
PERRY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Without a shadow of a doubt, she did it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`ll get her judgment someday.
PERRY: I don`t mean to be redundant, but it isn`t an easy case to decide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The Casey Anthony saga continue to spiral. Tonight, breaking news in the form of this order.
The most hated person in America has been ordered to return back to Orlando to serve 12 months of probation for check fraud. I think it`s fair to say this is a shock. Few expected Judge Belvin Perry to issue this ruling this particular way.
Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, coming to you from New York City. Are you stunned? I am. Really I am.
Judge Perry made this stunner of a ruling this afternoon. And now Casey Anthony must return to Orlando in two weeks or an arrest warrant will be issued, unless of course, there`s some sort of a successful appeal that creates a stay, something like that. Otherwise, she`s got to go back, back to her hometown.
Judge Perry says letting her off because of a clerical error would make a, quote, "mockery of justice." This all stems from that check fraud conviction last year after Casey stole checks from a friend and spent hundreds of dollars at a Target store and a grocery store. Beers to bras, she bought it all. She pleaded guilty. And here is Casey apologizing to the court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I just wanted to let everyone know that I`m sorry for what I did. I take complete and full responsibility for my actions. And I would like to sincerely apologize to Amy. I wish I would have been a better friend.
STRICKLAND: OK, thank you. Anything else?
CASEY ANTHONY: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey was sentenced to time served and one year probation, but the Department of Corrections began her probation while she was in jail awaiting trial for murder. They even sent Casey a letter, telling her, "Congratulations, you have finished your probation." Oops, never mind.
When Casey got out of jail last month, Judge Stan Strickland said, "Hmm, what about that probation sentence I ordered?"
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STRICKLAND: If the state is correct, there will be a conviction and a lengthy prison sentence; or worse, if the defense is correct, there will be an acquittal, and she`ll walk free. There is going to be a withhold followed by a year of supervised probation once released. Again, that`s an issue here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Once released. Well, Casey`s attorneys fought hard, arguing to order Casey to serve probation again would be double jeopardy, but Judge Perry did not buy it. So Casey is headed back to town, a town that hates her. Where will she go? How is she going to stay safe? Come to think of it, two weeks, that`s plenty of time to disappear. And she`s already disappeared. Who knows where she is? Will Casey Anthony show up?
Straight out to "In Session" producer Michael Christian. Michael, you were there on the ground in Orlando. What is the reaction to this stunning ruling in Orlando?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, PRODUCER, TRUTV`S "IN SESSION": You know, the bulk of the people here that I talked to, Jane, and the -- most people who respond to polls I see want Casey Anthony back in Orlando, back serving probation. This is a decision that will please those people.
They may not like her. They may not like the fact that she`s cost the county money. They may not like the fact that she brings a safety issue with her, but they want her to do probation, and they are going to be very, very pleased with this decision.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Eighty percent in local surveys said they wanted her to come back to Orlando, headache or not, and get punished in some way, shape or form, even though probation isn`t technically considered a punishment. Let`s be real. It`s not something she wants to do, so it`s a punishment as far as she`s concerned.
And so I`ve got tot ask, how much politics is involved in this decision? Judge Belvin Perry is up for election in 2012. And we all know, the voters have said, 80 percent of them, they want to see something like this happen. OK?
Now, I talked to Shawn Holley, who is a very prominent attorney last night here on ISSUES. And she represents Lindsay Lohan. She`s had a lot of experience with a lot of different judges and a lot of celebrity clients. Listen to her take.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHAWN HOLLEY, ATTORNEY: They`re trying to do everything they can possibly do to throw something at her, because they couldn`t get her on the big thing. It reminds me of the aftermath of the O.J. Simpson trial. I was on the O.J. Simpson defense team and, of course, that, too, was a very unpopular verdict.
And you may remember that, in the aftermath of that, when O.J. moved to Miami, he was charged with something involving road rage. And it seems like there were all sorts of things sort of coming out of the woodworks at him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, there were all sort of charges. He was speeding in a manatee zone, which I think should be prosecuted. All sorts of things. The cops were always showing up at his house. And of course, then there was the big mess in Las Vegas, and O.J. Simpson is currently behind bars. OK, he was convicted when he tried to get his memorabilia, and it ended up being armed robbery.
All right, Jayne Weintraub, you were very close to the defense team. And we remember what happened to O.J. We were just talking about it. Is this, in your opinion, fair or unfair to force Casey Anthony back to serve probation in Orlando?
JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it`s unfair -- I think it`s unfair for a number of reasons. The first reason is because it seems to be retaliatory and sour grapes.
The second reason is, it`s obviously putting her in a position of danger.
Thirdly, normally, this case would have been handled as either credit time served or a couple of months, and that`s it. She was put on probation and it ran. For the judge to come back now and say, "Well, what I meant to say was," doesn`t matter. It`s not what`s on the order. And we have to follow the words that were written on the order.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s not necessarily true. Sometimes the oral pronouncement supersedes the written pronouncement, and that was a very big issue here.
Mike Brooks, what do you think? Jayne Weintraub says it`s totally unfair. What say you?
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Imagine that, Jayne saying it`s unfair, come on.
Now, you know, I think Judge Perry, he legally did what he thought he had to do. He didn`t rush to judgment here. He looked at a number of different case law, and basically, he knew what the intent of Judge Strickland was when Judge Strickland was in charge of the check fraud case. And when he sentenced her, he said it right in court. I think Judge Perry probably went back, looked at transcripts. He knew exactly what the intent was. And you know what? So did Jose Baez.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well...
BROOKS: Jose Baez knew exactly what the judge meant, too. When they -- when they delivered the probation order, "Don`t say anything, OK?" Well, you know what? The judge had something to say about that, too.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you bring up a very important point that was raised in this ruling. This is probably the most controversial part of the ruling. Judge Belvin Perry harshly criticizes Jose Baez, saying, quote, "The defense acknowledged in court that Mr. Baez knew about the error but contended that he did not have any obligation to inform the court. While zealous advocacy is the cornerstone of good lawyering, zeal cannot give way to unprofessionalism."
He also implies Casey was knowingly trying to get away without doing the proper probation: "It`s very clear that the defendant and her attorney knew she was to start her probation upon release from the Orange County jail."
So I`ve got to go to Judge Larry Seidlin. You are -- my gosh, you`ve been in the courts there in Florida. I think this has become personal. I think emotions and egos are involved. What do you think about this ruling?
LARRY SEIDLIN, JUDGE: I think you and I were in Orlando together, and we both agreed that, if Judge Perry can put this gal back on probation, he will. He`s a prosecution-oriented judge. We saw it in his rulings.
Normally, if you look at what Casey Anthony did, she took a friend`s checkbook and wrote some checks. And normally, you get time served and maybe probation. Probation really ran when she was sitting in the can, awaiting for the murder trial.
I think it`s an act of "Bring her back. I want to watch her." This Casey Anthony is going to have to really watch herself. If she spits the wrong way on the street, she`s going to be back in front of Judge Perry. And they`re going to give her the toughest probation officer there is in Orlando.
I -- I`m not pleased with the ruling. The judge made it pretty bulletproof. And politics enters the court system. It does every system. The judge, as you well pointed out, runs in another two years, and the appellate court is not going to touch this. They`re going to let that ruling stand.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow.
SEIDLIN: So she`s going to be on probation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh. So you`re saying you do not think that -- because I`m thinking OK, this is a drama, but we`ve seen this soap opera go on for so long. The defense is going to file an appeal. They`re going to get an appeal. It`s going to go to an appeals court. What you`re saying, Judge Seidlin, is you don`t think that there will be a stay. You think she is going to be forced back. Is that true?
SEIDLIN: Oh, she`s going to serve -- Jane, she`s going to serve probation. She might as well get her plane ticket now. She`s going to serve probation. The appellate judges aren`t going to touch Perry`s order.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow.
SEIDLIN: They, too, stand for merit retention every six years. And she`s the most hated person in America.
WEINTRAUB: ... transferred out of town.
SEIDLIN: No one feels sorry for her. Look, we`re no fans of Casey Anthony, but justice should be dispensed equally and fairly, but his order is going to stand. He made it pretty bullet proof.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Listen, we`re just getting started here. On the other side of the break, we are going to talk to Brad Conway, who used to represent Cindy and George. What is Casey`s mom, Cindy, thinking about this? You`ve got to wonder. She wanted a relationship with her daughter. Is this now an opportunity to have such a relationship? More on the Casey probation ruling shocker.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: I was in Lake County two days ago.
CASEY ANTHONY: OK.
CINDY ANTHONY: Is there anything there?
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom. I`m sorry, I love you guys. I miss you -- I want to hang up and walk away right now. Because...
CINDY ANTHONY: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: I just want to let everyone know that I`m sorry for what I did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee! Justice for Caylee!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Without a shadow of a doubt, she did it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`ll get her judgment someday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you concerned for her safety?
CHENEY MASON, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY: Sure.
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: The devil is dancing tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not guilty!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not guilty!
PERRY: I`m also well aware of the threats.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How upset are you right now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m crying. It`s not right, Jane.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: People are angry. Eighty percent of the people of Orlando want Casey to serve probation. Now Judge Belvin Perry has ruled in this startling, stunning ruling, that yes, she has to report back in Orlando two weeks from today for probation.
You just heard Judge Larry Seidlin say he doesn`t think any appeals court is going to put a stay on that. He feels she`s going to have to go back.
On the phone with us right now, Brad Conway, the former attorney for Cindy and George, who knows all these characters very, very well. Our hearts have always gone out, Brad, to Cindy and George. They have been through hell. And it`s a living nightmare that never seems to end. What impact could this have on them? I know Cindy wanted to have a relationship with Casey. Is she going to be conflicted about this?
BRAD CONWAY, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR CINDY AND GEORGE (via phone): You know, Jane, that`s something really their attorney would have to answer. Because he`s their spokesperson.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, let me say this, Brad. Let me say this, Brad. She wants to be with her daughter, OK, but by the same time -- token, more than anything else, she wants her daughter to live. It`s going to be dangerous for her to come back to Orlando. Let`s be real. I don`t care if the judge said her address is going to be confidential. It`s not like New York City or L.A., where you can hide out. I spent a month there. You can get the lay of the land in five minutes. Everything is in a pretty short distance.
So what -- what are your thoughts, Brad, on this decision? Do you think it`s fair or not?
CONWAY: I think it`s fair, Jane. And the reason that I say that is that Judge Strickland`s intent was very clearly put on the record. It was very clearly understood by all parties. And so to get around it, because of a scribner`s error, because there was a mistake that the clerk made, just isn`t right. It sends the wrong message to the public.
And I think Judge Perry looked at that. He made a very well-read decision. I know there`s a discussion about, you know, do politics play a part in this. Judge Perry is entrenched. He is a very well-respected judge. Nobody is going to get him out of office. And so he doesn`t make decisions based on politics. He makes decisions based on the law. And the law is what rules in this case.
And I think it`s interesting that he addresses Mr. Baez`s obligation to the court, because that to me was one of the biggest things involved in this decision. This debacle is actually what it was. That`s a lawyer`s duty to -- to adhere to the court`s intent and to the judge`s order. And to get around that by saying, "Hey, we`re not going to say anything or we`re going to ignore this because it was a mistake," is the wrong thing to do. It abdicates a lawyer`s duty to the court of law.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, essentially, what he`s saying is it`s like, if you went to a restaurant and they forgot to give you your check, and then they said, "Have a nice day" and you walked out without paying, that`s essentially what he`s saying.
Now, I want to get back to Cindy. Cindy has been through the wringer. This is a living nightmare for her. And my heart goes out to Cindy and George. I don`t care what anybody says. Let`s -- let`s remember what it was like for Cindy on the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: This is July of 2008.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I just wanted to introduce (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Permission to publish this one, your honor? The play house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Judy Kuriansky, political psychologist, Cindy wants a relationship with Casey. She tried to visit Casey in jail after Casey was found not guilty. Casey turned her away.
Now, on the one hand, she wants to have a relationship with her daughter. On the other hand, she wants her daughter to survive, Judy.
JUDY KURIANSKY, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, for sure she would like her daughter to survive, and her daughter is in danger. The public, not just 80 percent of the people in Orlando, want her to come back to probation. The public wants poetic justice.
This is another Cindy who is really worried about the safety of her child and should be. But she also knows that she has a child who is a con woman. And that she, Cindy, has her own problems. Right now, they all need to be in therapy, helping them sort this out, because this is an incendiary situation. The public gossip, Jane, there should be some vigilante. This is a Clint Eastwood movie in the making.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I mean, we could have vigilante justice here. Jayne Weintraub, whatever happened to Casey going to rehab? There was this talk that she would go to therapy. Now is that out all the window? Or did that even ever happen?
WEINTRAUB: Well, no, Jane. I think that was all of our wishes that she would go for therapy. There`s no money. She has no money. And it`s not court-ordered, and there was no provision for that. I would hope at some point in her life soon, that she is able to have some counseling and therapy.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, are you worried -- are you worried for her safety? Ten seconds.
WEINTRAUB: Absolutely, I`m worried for her safety. And that`s why I don`t understand bringing her back here for a check, on probation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: On the other side, more.
WEINTRAUB: It`s ridiculous.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: Go away. Go away.
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t care what America thinks of me. They think that I`m a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) because I`m standing on TV. The media want to attack me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just the protests, see if we can break them down.
CINDY ANTHONY: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) one more time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are you going to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) do about it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go find your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kid! Go find your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) baby!
G. ANTHONY: What I feel sorry for is my neighbors that I`ve known for the last 19 years. It`s a shame what`s happened to the neighborhood because of this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Scenes from outside the Anthony family home. Judge Belvin Perry, ordering Casey Anthony back to Orlando in two weeks, and we`re all asking, will she be safe there?
Today Judge Perry himself acknowledged in his ruling what everybody knows, "This court is very mindful that there are many that would like to see physical harm visited upon the defendant."
He even quoted the new survey that says Casey Anthony is the most hated person in America, with a 94 percent ranking, above all sorts of other people like O.J. Simpson and Octomom.
So OK, Mike Brooks, yes, the judge said, "Well, we`ll keep her address confidential." But we all know, a couple of phone calls, and all the tabloids are going to know where she is. I mean, how are they going to keep her safe, and how much is that going to cost the taxpayers?
BROOKS: It`s not going to cost the taxpayers a dime, except when she is at the probation office. There`s no obligation, and we heard the sheriff say this, Jane. There`s no obligation for Orange County Sheriff`s Office or Orlando Police to provide her with protection.
Now, if they receive a credible threat, if they think it`s something to the threat, they will pursue that; they will investigate that. But personal security for Casey Anthony is going to come from the Casey Anthony team or someone else who`s going to give her money. It`s not coming from the public funds.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jayne Weintraub, criminal defense attorney close to the defense, God forbid, but what if something, God forbid, untoward occurred? What if somebody wanted -- not this lady. I talked to her, and she`s OK. That one`s OK, too. But what if some lunatic runs up to her and attacks her?
WEINTRAUB: Then the police will be called after the fact, and they`ll start their investigation. You know what means. Start their investigation means they`ll do basically what they would do to anybody called on a call. "Oh, you were hurt? Can you identify the person," et cetera, et cetera.
I mean, the bottom line is, why are we subjecting a citizen, or a member of that community. We`re exposing the community to potential riot, which I`ve seen in my town with unpopular verdicts. Miami was on fire twice with verdicts. Why subject the community to any more of this parade of shenanigans, rather than a court of justice?
And why not treat it like any other case and transfer the probation to whether Casey Anthony is? That`s what they would do. That`s what we typically do every day in our courts in Miami, Broward, Palm Beach, Orlando. That`s what we do, period.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you think this is vindictive?
WEINTRAUB: I -- I do think it`s vindictive. I think it`s the system getting back and having sour grapes. That`s what I think.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, I`ve got to say that judges and prosecutors and defense attorneys are people. I mean, they`ve got egos. We`ll be...
WEINTRAUB: I don`t think Judge Strickland`s...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STRICKLAND: I sentence Ms. Anthony to time served, which again is 412 days, followed by one year of supervised probation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was a vindictive sentence based on his disapproval of the jury`s findings.
JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, PRESIDED OVER CASEY ANTHONY CASE: If anything could go wrong it would go wrong here.
CASEY ANTHONY, ACQUITTED FOR MURDER OF DAUGHTER: I take complete and full responsibility for my actions.
PERRY: I`ll be frank and honest. I don`t know what I`m going to do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is done, this is over.
CROWD: Justice for Caylee. Justice for Caylee. Justice for Caylee.
PERRY: I see what you`re talking about. It`s a mess.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Without a shadow of a doubt, she did it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`ll get her judgment, some day.
PERRY: Don`t mean to be redundant, but it isn`t an easy case to decide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell coming to you from New York City.
Once again, another stunner the Casey Anthony roller coaster, the saga continues. Judge Belvin Perry has ordered Casey Anthony back to Orlando two weeks from today. It`s all contained in this order and that means she`s going to have to check in with a probation officer in Orlando. And fulfill a host of requirements over the next year.
One, be truthful and answer questions from her probation officer truthfully. Also, no drugs, no booze, ok. On top of that she`s also going to have to hold down a job. Now how on earth is she going to handle a job being the most hated person in the United States of America?
Straight out to Michael Christian who is live on the scene in Orlando; how is this all going to play out, Michael?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, "IN SESSION": You know, she`s not going to find a job like you or I might think of a job, Jane. She`s not going to be a sales girl at Macy`s or bagging groceries at the public. That`s not going to work.
But I think that there are places here that would employ her. The one thing that she has really has going for her, she`s estranged, perhaps, from her real family but she has an excellent support family in the attorneys who defended her, who bonded with her over the course of these three years. Those people have now become her second family and they`re going to help her every way that they can.
It would not surprise me to see her gain employment perhaps, working in the back office of a law firm, either one of these attorneys` firms or a firm that they`re associated with; somewhere in the back. You wouldn`t even have her at the reception desk in a firm like that because you wouldn`t let the public see her. But there are jobs like that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michael, Michael, Michael. Michael, she`s going to have to leave her house every morning to get a job at a law office. And we saw how my gosh, we saw the protesters; we were right there. You and I right in the midst of them, these angry people. We know that she`s gotten threats. We know that the paparazzi have talked her.
I mean how is she going to get up every morning and brush her teeth and go to a job at a law enforcement firm? Honestly, I don`t see it happening I find this whole thing extraordinarily bizarre.
CHRISTIAN: I`ll give you that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I think that it really could be a problem.
Now some people say this is sour grapes. Some people say this is face-saving on the part of the powers that be. So let me ask you this.
And I`m going to go back to Brad Conway, Judge Larry Seidlin has said that he doesn`t think an appeals court is going stop. He thinks she`s going to have to be back in two weeks. But what if an appeals court does issue a stay and what if this goes all the way up to the top and she wins again? Wouldn`t that be the ultimate humiliation for the powers that be in Orlando including the judicial system and the prosecution?
BRAD CONWAY, FORMER ATTORNEY OF GEORGE AND CINDY ANTHONY (via telephone): Well, yes, under your hypothetical, Jane, yes it absolutely would because again, let`s go back to the intent of Judge Strickland, which was upon her release, whenever that may be, she`s to serve a year of probation. And we`re not talking about one count here. We`re talking about (AUDIO GAP) counts that she pled to. So for her to do a year of probation and try to comply with those in good faith is not asking too much of her.
Can she get a job? Maybe, maybe not. But as long as she`s making that attempt, she`s not going to be violated. And the other conditions of probation, not drinking to excess. The judge didn`t order her not to drink at all just not to excess. And she should be able to comply with these if she wants to comply with them. If she wants to think that she`s different, and that she`s an exception to the law, then she`s going to have a problem.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m wondering where the heck is Casey right now. We have no idea, we`ve heard a million reports. Remember this video from WFTV of her, well not her, somebody in a pink shirt that`s the same type of shirt that she wore upon her release running out of a former defense attorney`s plane shortly after her release. This was some described as a decoy as she went to another place.
We`ve heard she`s in California. We`ve heard she`s in Ohio. There were photos taken of her allegedly in Ohio.
None of us have any independent confirmation, but Judge Larry Seidlin, you`ve made the point, when she comes back to Orlando, if she does in fact come back to Orlando, if she, as you said, sits in the street, you think she`s going to be arrested. In other words, you think they`re gunning for her?
JUDGE LARRY SEIDLIN, PRESIDED OVER ANNA NICOLE SMITH CASE: Well, they`re going to hammer her. They`re going to give her the roughest probation officer in Orlando. And let`s talk about some other thoughts. How about if she gives an interview and gets a big check to give an interview? How much can she criticize the Orlando court system? Are they going to bring her back for going too far? What happens if one of the magazines wants her to pose nude and she gets a big fee for that? Is that in violation? Is that going too far?
It`s a difficult position they`ve placed her in. I think she could have also had administrative probation, where she just calls up the probation officer once a month and lets her know or him know what she`s doing. It`s a difficult spot and they`re going to look to hammer her. I mean you can smell it and taste it.
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Judy Kuriansky, you`re a clinical psychologist; judges and prosecutors and defense attorneys are people. In your estimation, does this smack of face-saving, sour grapes of sticking it to her. Or is this just a good reasoned judgment?
DR. JUDY KURIANSKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Oh, I think it has a lot to do with some unconscious and even conscious feelings that judges and lawyers and prosecutors really have. I`ve been around them, been married to one, know them for decades and decades. They`re also real people and they have emotions, too.
And if they`re disagreeing with the jury who gets her off on this and more along with the 94 percent of people who feel that she`s, in fact, guilty and got away with murder that they`re going to find a loophole for it. And I can understand that. That is in a sense poetic justice.
I get so amused in this show where the argument about the specifics of the law and we have to do this but that`s where the law does not fit with people`s real emotions that I know as a psychologist.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, look, Casey Anthony`s investigation costs and trial bills are now reaching $700,000. Mike Brooks, we know that the prosecution is going to look to Casey Anthony to pay back some of that money, given the fact that she lied about her daughter being missing when, in fact, she admitted through her attorney in the opening statements the child was dead from the start.
Do you think that this probation order could preclude her, however, from doing an interview where she could make, let`s say, $1 million?
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, I don`t think it could, but who`s going to interview her, that`s the problem. And August 25, Jane, as you recall, that`s when they decide how much money she will pay back for the investigative and prosecution charges involved in this case. And she`s going to have to pay those back. And she`s got a number of other legal issues hanging over her head in those civil suits by Tim Miller and such. So it`s far from over for Casey Anthony, including her probation now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Michael Christian, where does she go when she arrives? I know they`re keeping her address secret. But she`s going to have to check in at a probation office. We`ve seen the crazy scenes. We were both there when she was released in the dead of night. There was a stampede. We`ve seen the protests after the verdict.
Are we going to see more of the same as she shows up for her date -- first date with her probation officer?
CHRISTIAN: She is due on the 26th, Jane by noon. Now, that doesn`t mean though that that`s the day she`s actually going to come. Judge Perry`s order says she can actually turn herself in early as long as she gives the probation office 72-hours` notice that she`s coming.
So if she`s smart, she comes earlier than that. She makes a deal, hopefully nobody in the probation office will tell anyone or leak it out. And she might actually be able to get in and get out of there before people realize what`s happening. If she waits until the 26th at noon, yes, it is going to be a circus, I guarantee it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. And I`m sure you and I will be a part of that circus, albeit reluctantly. It`s our obligation to cover it. It`s not our fault if it gets crazy, that`s what happens.
CHRISTIAN: Absolutely.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: 20 seconds Judge Seidlin, why wasn`t this double jeopardy?
SEIDLIN: I interpreted it to be double jeopardy. The Department of Correction believed that she was on probation. They visited her and they gave her a letter that she completed probation.
Also one more quick issue: in this judge`s order, Perry`s order, he doesn`t talk about Strickland, the wrongs that he committed. That he appeared on TV, the comment about the jury`s verdict, a sitting judge is not allowed to appear on TV for interviews.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it`s another wild left turn and I expect a right turn right around the horizon because you`d never know where this case is going to go.
Thank you, fantastic panel. Of course here on ISSUES, we`ll be all over every last development. And that means we`re going to be here for a while talking about Casey Anthony.
Up next, the one and only Gloria Steinem and she`s talking about everything. We`re going to try to save the wolves. We`re going to try to save a pristine island in the middle of nowhere. You and I together, we can help save this planet.
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RICHARD FORESTER, BOYFRIEND OF ROBYN GARDNER: If you`re online, there`s a green indicator light that means you`re active. If you`ve gone idle it turns orange and if you sign off, it`s gray. And it turned green, orange and gray throughout the day Wednesday and Thursday. So somebody was on her account.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight`s "Top of the Block", the boyfriend of a missing woman in Aruba said somebody was on her computer after she was declared missing. He told us that right here on ISSUES.
Robyn Gardner vanished more than a week ago while vacationing in Aruba. And now police are reportedly treating the case as a mysterious death, even though her body has not been found. Robin was traveling with this man, 50-year-old Gary Giordano. He is in the custody of the Aruban police and he is being called a suspect in Robyn`s disappearance, but he has not been charged.
We`re all over the story. We`ll bring you the very latest developments. That is tonight`s "Top of the Block".
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GLORIA STEINEM, FOUNDER, WOMEN`S MEDIA CENTER: Let`s face it, you know, we have this kind of frontier macho thing and we`ve still got it. But we are -- therefore we`re choosing our leadership talent from a tiny pool.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Gloria Steinem is leading a battle to save a piece of planet earth. Ground zero: a tiny little island, Jeju Island. Now, there`s a plan to totally decimate this paradise that was once declared the island of global peace. Yes, they plan to create a naval base along a stretch of pristine coastline.
Now, the villagers there, they don`t have a lot of power. They`re fighting every way they can to protect their little slice of heaven. They`re living in tents. They`re going on hunger strikes. They`re protesting the construction, but all their lawsuits, all their pleas have completely failed.
Now there`s a ray of hope because world famous author and activist Gloria Steinem has decided to take the lead to save Jeju Island. Check out HBO`s "Gloria" in her own words. It premieres this Monday.
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STEINEM: Talking about it is a revolution and not a reform.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gloria Steinem, she`s the most visible symbol of the women`s movement.
STEINEM: You understand it`s not a role exchange. We`re not trying to do to men what men have done to us. We`re trying to humanize both roles.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I firmly believe it is up to the women of the world to take the lead in saving the planet to nurture and mother planet earth. So I am so honored and delighted to have with me tonight one of the pioneers of the women`s liberation movement, co-founder of the Women`s Media Center, the one and only Gloria Steinem.
Gloria, I actually was reading the "New York Times" and I saw your article on Jeju Island and I ripped it out of the paper and I brought it in and I said -- right here -- I said we`ve got to do something about this. This is not right.
So Gloria, who is trying to destroy Jeju Island and why?
STEINEM: First of all, Jeju Island, so everybody can go find it on the map is at the tip of South Korea, and it is often called the most beautiful place on earth that has all kinds of unique habitats. And it is just physically the most beautiful; it`s peace island.
Now, the debate about who is trying to build the base, it`s called a South Korean base, but, in fact, the technology that it would serve is an anti-ballistic missile system that is ours and that depends on our international satellite system and also, even if you call, as a reporter did, the South Korean embassy in Washington, they say don`t call us, call the Pentagon. You know?
So it`s quite clear that this would not be happening if it weren`t for our arms race and our effort to encircle China in a way that China has said is the most dangerous act in the 21st century. So it is both an act of environmental destruction and of arms race provocation.
You know, I`m so glad you`re covering this issue because it is a kind of convergence of all of the world`s movements in this place. It`s called Women`s Island. It has a culture of ancient egalitarianism still that you can sense that is different.
It was occupied -- I mean, you know, there is no movement in the world that isn`t converged on this issue. And yet yours is the first television coverage that I`m aware of in this country.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I pray it`s not the last. And I have to tell you, what we do here on ISSUES we make a clip of this. We send it to your organization and you can make it viral. And let`s hope -- I don`t want the exclusive on this. I really don`t.
And by the way, if you at home want to save Jeju island, you can go to sign the Google petition, "Save Jeju Island". We could show you that graphic and you can get involved; if we all get involved with this, "Save Jeju Island". So just Google "Save Jeju Island" and you can get involved.
Yes. We are trashing the planet, Gloria, and that brings me to the subject of Somalia; 29,000 Somali children believed to have died of starvation. Starvation is a very an awful way to die.
It`s all interconnected, isn`t it, Gloria?
STEINEM: Yes, absolutely. I mean the idea that we have national boundaries is a fiction. We know there`s no polluted air, and no lack of water that respects boundaries.
And in a deep sense, the kind of famine that we are seeing in Somalia, which is also endangering Kenya and Ethiopia -- you know, it`s people are striving to save themselves. There are many more people in danger from malnutrition.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The problem is nobody knows this is happening. There is an impending slaughter of wolves.
We`re here to make a difference.
We don`t have that many wolves left.
CROWD: Extinction is forever. Extinction is forever.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: A sneaky slaughter about to happen right under our noses, unless you and I stop it. An 11th hour addition to the budget delists wolves from the endangered species list. Critics say this is an extermination plan for America`s wolves that cattle ranchers want to rid themselves of these wild dogs and they got the U.S. government to lead the way.
Critics estimate Idaho has only about a thousand wolves left; Montana, only about 500; Wyoming, about 300. Friends of Animals, a leading animal protection organization, says all of the wolves may be gone if this hunt is allowed to continue.
Today, people, worried Americans rallied in the nation`s capital in a campaign to save these beautiful creatures who are the cousins of our dogs, our pets, from death and extinction at the point of a gun.
Joining me now Priscilla Feral, president of Friends of Animals; Priscilla thanks for joining us. Tell us in people terms, what the heck is going on here?
PRISCILLA FERAL, PRESIDENT, FRIENDS OF ANIMALS: Well, the Clinton administration, repatriated wolves to the U.S. and it looks like the Obama administration is going to cause their extinction. Later this month, Idaho plans to kill close to 800 or more. The same will happen in Montana and Wyoming has a shoot on sight policy. This, of course, means wolves are under siege and they really need the American public to get involved and to push back.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, the Interior Department and we always call them, they refused to comment. And you`re saying they`re behind the whole thing. Ken Salazar the head of the Interior Department. The governor of Idaho says, well, he never called for an extermination of wolves. He`s calling and thinks this is the responsible management of wolves. What is your response to that, Priscilla?
FERAL: The response to that is the governor of Idaho said he wanted to be first in line to pop one. In truth if there are a thousand wolves there, they`re allowing about 800 to be shot. Trappers can trap five or so. And keep them in traps 72 hours.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my God.
FERAL: Montana expects to kill at least half and, again in Wyoming, where you only have a sprinkling, they`re going to have a shoot on sight policy. So we`re calling for a travel boycott of all three states. And, of course, we`re going to be back in court.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, first of all, if you at home are outraged as I am over this, you can go to friendsofanimals.org. Friendsofanimals.org; that`s easy to remember and get involved.
I would say also, start just calling. Call the White House, call the Interior Department.
Priscilla, tell us about this lawsuit. Do you think you might be able to stop this?
FERAL: We`re going to get into court in November, but the killing is going to start August 30th. And Montana, it will start September 3rd. People have got to push back now. And help us form wolf rallies, which means galvanizing people to really shout out loud and tell the governors of all of these three states, they`re not going to travel there, they`re not going to spend a dime there as long as wolves are persecuted.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re talking about Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. Is that correct?
FERAL: That`s correct.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So call those governors and let them know. we`re going to have more wolves in danger, next. Hang in.
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CROWD: Save the wolves. Save the wild. Save the wolves. Save the wild. Save the wolves. Save the wild.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: They are the cousins of our dogs and cats. We say we love our dogs. But yet when it comes to saving the wolves, well, it is open season on wolves thanks to a rider that was stuck on the budget bill and now they have de-listed these animals. And they`re going to start shooting them all and wiping them out. There is only -- there is not that many left.
Priscilla, what would you tell the American people in 15 seconds to do to stop this slaughter?
FERAL: I would say join a "Howling Wolf" rally, contact Friends of Animals for information on forming one. Also tell the governors of Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming that you`re not going to travel there. You`re supporting an economic boycott as long as those --
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Listen to that lady.
"NANCY GRACE" next.
FERAL: Thank you.
END
