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Missing in Aruba; Missing in America; `Who the Bleep Did I Marry?`

Aired August 18, 2011 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, disturbing news in the disappearance of Robyn Gardner. Last seen with Gary Giordano, Aruban authorities reportedly find sexually graphic photos of Gardner on his camera. Beth Holloway, mother of Natalee who went missing in Aruba, gives her take on the story.

Then new details in the suicide of Russell Armstrong, the husband featured on "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills". In the midst of marital troubles, Armstrong reportedly couldn`t even pay for his meals. How will Bravo handle the upcoming season which focused on the Armstrongs` marital problems?

That and more starting right now.

E.D. HILL, HOST: Good evening, everyone. I`m E.D. Hill; I`m sitting in for Joy again tonight.

We have new details in the case of the American woman missing in Aruba. Sexually explicit photos of Robyn Gardner, reportedly found on the camera of the suspect, Gary Giordano. Now Gardner was last seen August 2nd in the same Aruba town where Natalee Holloway disappeared back in 2005.

Joining me now in an exclusive interview is Natalee`s mother, Beth Holloway. She is the co-founder of the Natalee Holloway Resource Center. Plus, Pat Brown joins us, criminal profiler and the CEO of the Pat Brown Criminal Profiling Agency.

But first, I want to go to CNN correspondent, Martin Savidge in Aruba and find out the very latest on this. Tell me about these photos reportedly found on the camera because I can`t quite understand. The description is, they are, quote, "beyond pornographic".

What do they know from these photos and can we tell if they were taken against Robyn`s will?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At this particular point, authorities are not saying too much about the photographs. We learned of the camera that belonged to Gary Giordano being in the hands of authorities a couple of days ago when we reported that. And we knew also that there were images inside.

And at the time it was thought that the authorities were using those images to try to ascertain a time line and where the couple may have been. Now we find out that there were some explicit photos in there. That`s the word that they used, E.D. They do not go so far as to say pornographic. That`s coming from other news sources.

But they are saying they are explicit and they are saying that they appear to have been taken, of course, here somewhere on the island of Aruba. But they don`t know when or under what circumstances and they won`t tell us how many photos.

HILL: And it flies in the face of everything that I have been told over the past week. And our viewers have heard -- we`ve talked to Robyn`s boyfriend. Yesterday we talked to two of her friends. They all had described it as yes, this is just a friendship. Nothing else going on there.

And in fact, her boyfriend said that he was under the impression from Robyn that Gary Giordano was gay. So this really changes the this whole story and kind of the relationship that may have been -- may have been going on there.

What about the court transcripts? We heard that they were released today. What was inside them?

SAVIDGE: Well, these are actually statements that were made by Gary Giordano on which he signed, meaning that he approved the statements. They were sworn through by the officers that interviewed him. And this interview was conducted three days after Robyn Gardner was reported missing.

So these are documents that we have managed to obtain. And essentially what they talk about very early on, and what we realize, the focus of the investigation very quickly was about money. About the money - - they were whether Gary Giordano owed money. Or how much money he may have owed, which he said he did not other than his mortgage. And then they start focusing on the issue of the insurance, the travel insurance they call it here. But it appears that there were beneficiaries. In this particular case he said the policy he took out on both of them, his, the beneficiary was his mother. But he didn`t state who the beneficiary would have been for Robyn.

Authorities here clearly think that this could be a potential motive. But keep in mind, he did say that Robyn Gardner disappeared right where we are at the beach, snorkeling. And there too the documents point out that Gary Giordano says for the first time that he too, was in danger. He felt that he might lose his life, struggling to get back to shore. And of course, we know at this point he says, Robyn Gardner didn`t make it back.

HILL: It just sounds very strange. You know, like everybody else in America, you know, you`re talking to folks around you about this case. Why wouldn`t -- obviously if you take out an insurance policy on somebody and all of a sudden, they disappear, folks are going to start focusing on you right away. Yet it appears that he didn`t really think that was going to happen because they stopped him as he was leaving the country, right?

SAVIDGE: Right. He was actually grabbed after he had cleared immigration, meaning that he technically was now out of the realm of what is the coverage area of Aruba. However that doesn`t mean that you totally escape prosecution. So authorities were able to get him at the very last second.

He may have thought, and this is going back to, of course, if he`s done something illegally, he may have thought he was getting away with it. Now he`s sitting in a prison.

HILL: Yes.

Now I want to turn to Beth Holloway, Natalee`s mother; and also our criminal profiler Pat Brown joining us. But Beth -- first, what went through your gut when you heard about this case?

BETH HOLLOWAY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: First of all, I know the challenges that the family will face navigating foreign law. In Aruba in particular, I mean it was very difficult for me to communicate with them, to get information and have them act in an expeditious manner in handling the case with professionalism. So I was concerned.

HILL: Should a family -- I mean as soon as something like this happens, would you counsel a family, get down there immediately --

HOLLOWAY: I don`t really encourage them -- I really that is a move that I would personally want to make. But some just aren`t able to do that. And so the main thing I think I can guide them is getting them connected immediately to the right resources and getting those resources to work for them. That is what is key.

HILL: And that is what the Natalee Holloway Resource Center does is help families find those resources.

HOLLOWAY: Yes, absolutely.

HILL: All right.

Pat, let me ask you a bit about this -- the case and the suspect, Gary Giordano. Everything that you`ve heard and I assume you just got that latest update from Martin Savidge down in Aruba. What do you think about this?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: You know, when I first looked at this case from the very beginning, I thought Giordano is a sadistic sex predator. This is a man that goes on the Internet. This is how he hooks up with women, all the women that have been with him has said he`s been very scary. That he`s videotaped them while they`re having sex. He has threatened them. He even threatened to kill them.

This is a very scary person. And so when Robyn hooked up with him, I think what I feel happened is he made an offer to go down to Aruba. I don`t know what the offer actually included, but I knew it was not platonic because she was one of the women who he found on the Internet.

And he`s not going -- here`s the thing. Giordano is not going to waste his time or money on any woman in a platonic relationship. Sex predators do not do that. They`ll give you five minutes. If you don`t cooperate, they`re gone. I believe she went down there with something -- she knew something that was going to go on but I think she got in over her head. I think he wanted way more than she was willing to go along with.

HILL: You know. But her friends, I talked to two of her close friends last night. And I thought that they just met. And they said, no, no, they have known each other for years. Can you miss signs like that?

BROWN: No. I mean I believe that Robyn had to have a clue what he was about. As I said, this kind of guy does not believe in platonic relationships. If you ever go online, I posed as a young woman online with sex predators and I`ll tell you they`ll say, "Hi, how are you doing? Are you doing escort? Do you want to -- have you ever had sex?" By the third line, they`re completely into sex.

He is not going to waste his time. I don`t think it`s platonic. But I`m sure she don`t know what was waiting for her down in Aruba because this kind of guy sometimes what he wants to do is ratchet up to the next level because his thrill is getting power over women, actually torturing them. So if she`s just doing what he wants, that`s not thrilling enough. So he`s got to go into the next level which she is going to object to and obviously she did, I believe.

HILL: The Aruban authorities continue investigating.

Beth, when you look at the steps that had been taken. They`ve stopped him. I mean he went passed the Aruban -- sort of arm of law and they were able to bring him back in. Do you get a sense that perhaps they`re doing a better job?

HOLLOWAY: I do. I`m still guarded though and I do hope they prove me wrong and show me what Dutch law can really do with a perpetrator on their island. I am very encouraged so far. So I just want to -- just see how this proceeds.

HILL: And I think that a lot of us as we watched the tragedy that you went through unfold, a lot of us kind of had a lesson. We were watching as -- you were frustrated in attempts to get things done. And it`s just not the way things normally happen here. Is it wise for families to try to get their own perhaps investigators or experts to a location?

HOLLOWAY: I think the key is getting someone who can represent the family. A liaison, a victim`s liaison, someone whether it`s the law enforcement, an attorney that can communicate with the foreign law enforcement. Because they don`t want to confide and speak with -- you know, speak everything with the family. And I understand that, especially with the mother or the father. But you know, you are in a very emotional state.

HILL: Is it best if it`s a person from that particular country?

HOLLOWAY: No, I think it`s good for someone from the victim`s homeland to be able to communicate with the foreign official and then update the family. I think it just -- because when communication breaks down or shuts down and you are already dealing with a language barrier that leads you to be just more frustrated and more frightened and less feeling that something is really being done --

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: All right. Thanks.

We will be back in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: Natalee Holloway went missing six years ago in Aruba and her mother, Beth, turned her grief into action founding the Natalee Holloway Resource Center. It`s a center that helps the families of missing persons. Beth Holloway is back with me. Also joining us is investigative reporter Michelle Sigona.

Thanks for both being with us.

MICHELLE SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Thank you.

HILL: Michelle, let me start with you because I`d like to -- to have you sort of fill us in on one of the cases that the resource center is focused on as well. And it`s this -- Don Nicholas, a Charlotte man who went missing while he was out surfing in Fiji. What happened there?

SIGONA: Well he -- Don, he is 39 years old. He is actually the CEO of a company here in the United States and also is a big time philanthropist. And he went on vacation out in Fiji, mid-July and was out actually on a surfing lesson when he suddenly disappeared.

And so here we are now, we`re -- well over a month into this investigation and so investigators are still looking for him, looking for his body. His family, is holding hope that he`s still out there. They`ve even launched a Web site in hopes to find him. And so also along with that, they have a reward in place as well. And really they are just hoping for some answers.

There`s about 100 islands out there that he could be on. And so we just really kind of keep the hope. Keep the faith alive in these cases and hopefully someone will come forward with some positive information.

HILL: Because he was a very strong swimmer. That Web site by the way is HelpFindDon.com.

Beth, how does -- how does your resource center help people like that? The families of folks who are missing.

BETH HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY RESOURCE CENTER: Well, twofold. The resource center, it`s -- we want to focus on crime prevention. I mean that`s our primary goal but should tragedy strike, our biggest asset in helping these families is -- is the press releases and getting the media engagement for the families. Because that`s so important in getting soliciting the eyewitness accounts, tips that are coming in. And with this family, like I said, they are just really looking to raise awareness of Don`s disappearance in hopes that someone may have seen something.

HILL: How difficult is it when you`re dealing with a foreign country? You know it`s not -- it didn`t happen in the States. It`s a completely different judicial system, police system, investigative system. How do you deal with that?

HOLLOWAY: It is. And the nature of the beast is -- when -- when these calls come in from the families who have a love one go missing in a foreign country -- it`s -- there are three questions? What can the embassy provide to me and what can they not provide. And the second is police information, government contacts and even getting their own U.S. information, their own U.S. resources and then getting those resources to work for your missing loved one.

And it`s -- it`s an unimaginable nightmare in being able to -- when you`re -- just think about it, you know when you`re at home, you can -- you can research and plan all this.

(CROSSTALK)

HILL: Yes.

HOLLOWAY: And find all of this pertinent infrastructure information. But when tragedy strikes, I mean you think about it, I mean, you can`t even begin to pull yourself together let alone to begin to implement resources for the search for your missing loved ones.

HILL: Yes.

And Michelle, let`s talk about another case, Katelyn Markham, there is a Facebook page that her friends have put together. she`s a 22-year-old woman from Fairfield, Ohio.

This is a very strange case. And in fact I think one of the investigators said it`s almost as if she was abducted by aliens. That`s how weird this one is. Tell us what happened with Katelyn?

SIGONA: You know, I just got off the phone with the lieutenant that`s handling this case. And what he says is last weekend, just around midnight her fiance had noticed that she was missing. And so earlier -- later on that morning he had went over to her house, she wasn`t there but her car was. She was supposed to be at work.

She worked two jobs throughout the week, and also on the weekends. And so later on that afternoon, he reported her missing. At this point, they can`t really say whether foul play is involved or is not involved. It`s something, of course, that they`re looking at in the course of their investigation.

They did go back to her townhouse earlier today to try to collect more evidence, to try to figure, did she in fact walk away? Or -- you know again, what was there foul play suspected in all of this?

So hopefully as the day go on, this won`t be one those cases a Susan Powell or a Lisa Stebic or Stacy Peterson or any of those cases where -- where these women are just vanishing and then suddenly we don`t hear anything else about them again and they`re still open investigations.

Hopefully someone had something and they`ll come forward.

HILL: You know what`s so strange about this, you`ve her keys, her wallet, her cell phone, her dog. People just aren`t going to up and leave and you know and leave those sort of things lying around there.

Beth, in a case like this, how important, I mean, if you were to counsel a family, how important is it for them to immediately take action? Because I imagine that you got to sort of get the police to hurry things up. If you`ve -- you get a sense that something`s wrong. But they -- usually do the 24 hours. What`s the first step you take?

HOLLOWAY: Oh the first step is and I mean it`s always the hardest step that law enforcement has to make but it`s the one they have to make. Is look first to the -- to the persons that are closest to the -- to the victim. I mean, it starts with their -- the boyfriend, the -- the best friend, any acquaintance that they`ve just made, family members, brothers, sisters. I mean, they do. I mean you have to begin -- I mean that`s -- that`s the dirty task that you have to begin looking immediately at those - - at those family members and friends -- friends closest to the victim.

HILL: Is that -- is that what normally happens? I mean, I know that -- that used to be the case and almost all instances of -- of murder that it was -- you look at the persons who were the closest to that -- to that victim and you usually find the one responsible. But now there seems to be more random crime.

HOLLOWAY: Well, you`re exactly right. There are more random crimes but I still think if you go back to the basics, and when you`re -- when you begin you have to -- you have to have a threshold and -- in a lot of cases, you might have a person of interest that -- who was the last person seen with this individual.

But if you don`t, as you said, you can`t be abducted by aliens.

HILL: Yes.

HOLLOWAY: So you know, I think that the -- the best thing is -- is you begin to look at those -- those members that are closest to that victim.

HILL: Going through a difficult situation yourself, what was the best thing for families to do. Is it to stay together like go to one -- one place all get together and stay there together? Or is it to try live your -- do this but also live your life and try to continue going on?

HOLLOWAY: What I`ll recommend to the families when you have a loved one suddenly go missing, have a command center. Whether it`s a church, whether it`s a community center, someone`s home; so you can kind of have some continuity and a good flow and channel of information for law enforcement to come to, for searchers to come to and for tips to be funneled from. So, you know, I think that --

HILL: So setting up these Web sites is a good idea.

HOLLOWAY: Absolutely it is. Absolutely.

HILL: We`re going to take a quick break. More with Beth Holloway and Michelle Sigona. A very interesting case that we are going to discuss right after this break. Stay there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: We`re back with Beth Holloway and investigative reporter, Michelle Sigona.

Michelle, I wanted to talk about the case about Lauren Spierer, Indiana University girl. A lot of people have probably seen this all over the news. June 3rd, she`s at a bar, she walks back to an apartment building with a friend. Something happens and a couple of hours later, she is seen by another friend going towards her apartment. The last person she was seen with says that he got in a fight with some folks and can`t remember what happened. And boom, she is gone.

What do we know there?

SIGONA: Here is what I can tell you in covering this case since June 3rd. There is surveillance tape that is available that sort of closes in some of the time line. But there is a big portion of that time line that is missing. From that point on, from 4:30 in the morning on, that`s when we have no clue what happened to Lauren, unfortunately.

But her parents, her friends, everyone got on the bandwagon very quickly and started to generate noise. They started making noise for her cases. They printed out posters, the first time in Missing Persons case that I`ve ever seen a poster with a bar code on it that you can scan, it goes directly to her Web site. The Web site`s great and has up to day information. They have almost 30,000 followers on Twitter for this case alone.

HILL: Wow.

SIGONA: And so they are making noise. Right now a land fill is being searched. I spoke with one of the head folks over at that land fill. It`s about 55 miles away from where Lauren went missing. It`s a very detailed operation. They know exactly where the trucks picked up the trash from in that area, how much they weighed when they came in. The exact spot where they put the trash. And then after the trash was there each they, they cover it up with soil or plastic. And then the next day they move to another location.

So the FBI, investigative teams are out there now. They`re able to sift through. So if there is something there, maybe evidence, something leading them to help solve this case or to help shed some light on it, they will definitely find it in that land fill.

HILL: Beth, that Web site you referred to is findlauren.com. And as you`re talking about this, because I am a mom and I`ve got a daughter about that age, now going off to college. I`ll tell you, I just get this -- I just get this, you know, hole in my gut because you`re always -- you`re a mom, you know what I`m talking about. You are just so afraid.

The thing is, so many of these cases, and correct me if I`m wrong, so many of them seem to be revolving around bars and drinking and walking some place by yourself. And I don`t want to sound like a prude but is that right or am I just -- you know -- picking that out?

HOLLOWAY: You are exactly right. And it`s late at night. I mean it`s that same mode of operation. That same outcome which is not good. Last seen leaving a establishment, alone, walking at night, 12:30 a.m. or 1:30 a.m. and the outcome is never good.

HILL: What would you counsel -- if moms and dads are going to get the chance to talk to their kids right now and say, here is what I want to you do. Clearly you can`t hold their hand every place they go. Is it call when you leave some place? You know, always make sure that somebody knows where you are going and who you are with and what the time line is?

HOLLOWAY: They spend a lot of time in planning and texting, where they`re going, who they are going with, what they`re wearing. All I ask them when I speak these kids is put as much time in how you will end your outing. As you do when deciding in where you`re going and who you`re going with. Just have a plan of exit.

SIGONA: Beth is exactly right. And also I just wanted to mention being aware of your surroundings. I mean there`s a couple of other active cases, Holly Bobo case, the Michelle Lee and they were abducted literally in daylight. And they weren`t out. You know what I mean. So it`s just being aware of your surroundings and keeping in touch with people.

HILL: Michelle, thank you very much.

SIGONA: You got it.

HILL: Beth, great advice.

Again Beth is the co-founder of the Natalee Holloway Resource Center. I`m so glad to you can take your tragedy and turn it into something that hopefully will help so many other people. Thank you.

HOLLOWAY: Thank you.

HILL: We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: The fallout continues from the suicide of the "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills" star Russell Armstrong as new clues into his state of mind are revealed and Bravo goes into crisis mode over whether the show should be aired as planned in September.

Joining me now with the very latest on this tragic story is Francisco Martin. Francisco was Russell`s friend, business partner, and I appreciate you joining us.

You`ve had the chance--

FRANCISCO MARTIN, RUSSELL ARMSTRONG`S FRIEND, BUSINESS PARTNER: Thank you for having me.

HILL: -- to talk to Taylor, his estranged wife. How is she holding up and has anyone told their child?

MARTIN: Well, Taylor, as you can imagine, is devastated. This is a very, very difficult time for her in her life. And, you know, the focal point right now is really to make sure that the children are OK, that Taylor gets the time to grieve and cope with the situation. And yes, to get to your question, Kennedy knows that her father passed.

HILL: And I understand that Russell was staying at your house. You found his body. We have been told that he apparently was extremely depressed. I spoke with his attorney earlier this week, and he said financial problems, a lot of things weighing on his mind. We have also heard that he was asking people for Xanax just before his death. Did you have any idea about how bad it was for him?

MARTIN: You know, there is a lot of speculation to -- also to make a correct on your statement that it was my house. It was not my house. We, by we Taylor and myself, on Monday night, we drove to the house where Russell was staying after not hearing from him for an extended period of time. And we found him at his friend`s house. I know there are several statements out there that it was my house. It was not my house.

HILL: So you were with Taylor at the time?

MARTIN: Yes, I was.

HILL: And so she was there when you found him. Did you have any idea though what his state of mind was? And had you heard that he was attempting to get drugs?

MARTIN: You know, I heard of the statements of the Xanax. I forgot who that was, and asking people for drugs. I think, again, that is pure speculation at this time. I don`t know the facts on that.

HILL: But you didn`t know him to be using drugs like that. That is not the guy you knew?

MARTIN: Not at all. He was a very focussed businessman. He was always on time. He was very, very hard working, and I have never, never seen him under the influence.

HILL: When I spoke to his attorney, he was saying, just sort of the tolls of living up to who people thought they were, the lifestyle that they thought they had, had really taken a toll on him. That both financially and emotionally. There are rumors now, and I want to ask you about this. You can correct it because they are out there. There are rumors that he was worried, that apparently, there was an upcoming tell-all book that was going to expose secrets, including again rumors that he was bisexual. Did he ever tell you that he was concerned about this? Or that he had been hearing this? Or that there were any concerns?

MARTIN: Not at all. Again, the rumors, as far as I know, there is very little truth to that. And that is all I know and can elaborate on.

HILL: Very little truth or no truth?

MARTIN: No truth. No truth, certainly not that I know.

HILL: What about this upcoming season? He is in there. And, you know, apparently, she starts -- Taylor begins talking about the difficulties they were having. Was he concerned about the dirty laundry being aired in public or so publicly?

MARTIN: Well, you know, I can only, again, speculate and imagine where I would be if I was in the situation that Russell was in. And you are talking about a very tough economic environment. We were in the midst of launching a new business venture which obviously Taylor is part of, Beautyticket.com. And there were a lot of pressures on him. And I can only imagine that to top it off, being on national television, it just got the best of him.

HILL: Well, you would certainly know. You are his business partner, you were launching this new business venture. We heard that he was so desperate for money, he couldn`t even afford his meals. That`s why he was over at a friend`s house, he`d stay in there. He`s needing folks to basically buy his food for him. How bad financial straits was he in?

MARTIN: I can tell you that we launched Beautyticket together. And he brought me in, into the company, as the CEO. And he brought and actually introduced a very large group of investors who actually invested in the company, several hundred thousand dollars. And, you know, I know for a fact that he was not able to buy his food or pay his way, that`s -- I think those are all fictitious stories out there.

HILL: All right. Well, as you know, when these things happen, the stories start swirling, and that is why we like to have folks who have information come on and debunk it or tell us that that is accurate. Appreciate your time, Francisco, thank you.

MARTIN: Yes, thank you.

HILL: We are going to change gears a little bit here. Imagine this. You meet the man of your dreams. You are swept off your feet. You get married, life couldn`t be better, and then you find out that your Mr. Right is way wrong. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got a call from one of Scott`s friends. One of his new friends that he was hanging out with. He said, there`s things about Scott that I think you need to know. He said, Scott was into dealing drugs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The friend warned Gail to seek protection for herself and her children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The guy said, Scott owes so many people money for these drugs, and he is telling them that you have money, so they are going to come after you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So what do you do when you discover the love of your life has a very secret life you did not know about? Here with me to discuss this are three women featured on this season of "Who the Bleep Did I Marry?" on Investigation Discovery. Gayle Cuvreau, Tammi McCreary and Joy DeSomber.

Thanks all of you for being with us.

Gayle, let me start with you, because we just watched that clip. This is a guy you met and you thought he was fantastic. When did you find out that there was drug issues?

GAYLE CUVREAU, FEATURED ON "WHO THE BLEEP DID I MARRY": It was about a year and a half to two years into the marriage.

HILL: And I understand it was a very scary moment for you when you had that a-ha moment. What happened when you realized that is what is going on?

CUVREAU: Well, there was odd behavior to begin with. So I didn`t know what it was that he was doing. I just knew that things weren`t well and that there was just the odd behavior. And then discovering what it was of course was quite shocking. So just that part of it alone, finding out that he was a heroin addict, was devastating.

HILL: And, yes, I mean, folks at home are going, heroin addict? That is horrible. But it got even worse for you. So he goes into rehab, comes back out. But the next step then is that you find out he is dealing?

CUVREAU: I don`t even know everything that he was doing. But yes, he was dealing drugs, and doing whatever he could. Because after he had pretty much wiped me out of my money, he had to find different ways to get money. So yes, and dealing and I heard that maybe he was even making them. Just hanging out with terrible characters to -- that also were on the drugs.

HILL: And then finally, when the police move in and they arrest him, it goes from drugs, use, drugs, dealing, and then it blows up into identity theft and more?

CUVREAU: Identity theft. Yes. I was very just shocked. I was trying to find him so that I could get divorced because I knew he was doing things he shouldn`t, and I didn`t want to be any part of it whatsoever, and having people come after me. And a friend called up and said, turn on your TV. And there he was. He was also an identity theft ring leader. I was pretty shocked, because I really didn`t have a clue about any of that, because I hadn`t seen him in a couple of years.

HILL: Reflecting back on it now -- and by the way, watching these episodes, it`s really fascinating. But you try to find something to take away from it that it can help other people. When you look back, is there some sort of a sign regarding the drug use or something else that you should have said this isn`t right? And questioned it more, and instead you glossed over it?

CUVREAU: Yes, I think that when you`re in love, I think a lot of us are guilty of this. You really don`t want to see that there is something terribly wrong. You kind of make up excuses. But then again, they are the ones that are also lying to you. You know, they are pathological liars, and you love them and you want to believe what they have to say.

HILL: If they are pathological, they probably lie pretty well.

CUVREAU: Oh, very well. It got to the point, that I finally just told him, don`t even talk to me anymore, because you know, everything comes out is a lie. But in the first part of it, you really -- you want to believe them because you love them and you are trying to hold together your marriage.

HILL: And did you think that along with loving him, that that might be enough that you could actually change him?

CUVREAU: Yes, oh, yes. Definitely. And you want to. You want to help them. You want to see if you can get through this. And that`s the sad part about it. You think that you have this beautiful, wonderful person in your family, and you`d do anything to make it work, and then it just gets to the point you know you can`t.

HILL: Gayle, thank you. Stay right there. We`re going to take a quick break and you won`t believe the stories that continue after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I started going through his clothes. I was going through pockets, looking for pieces of paper, just anything. There was a duffel bag that was in the closet. And in the duffel bag, I saw papers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Eric`s web of lies was far from over and Tammi was about to learn just how far he would go to deceive her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: You won`t believe it. That was a clip from "Who the Bleep Did I Marry?" Joining me now, again, the women that were on -- that are on that show. We have Gayle Cuvreau, Tammi McCreary, and Joy -- and Joy DeSomber. Joy, we`re going to get to your story in just a second, but Tammi, I want to talk to you about that. Because he does sound like the guy that every mom is looking for, for their daughter. Doctor. He is a doctor. And you found out, not quite. What happened?

TAMMI MCCREARY, FEATURED ON "WHO THE BLEEP DID I MARRY": I thought he was a doctor. I witnessed him interacting with other doctors at the hospital. I had friends that had witnessed him at the hospital. So --

HILL: But he came up with an elaborate story. You meet him in a night club. You hit it off. And he tells you this tragic, tragic tale about his children and his parents dying in a car crash, and taking him away from medicine. He just can`t practice anymore because he`s distraught. Even shows you death certificates.

MCCREARY: Absolutely. I could not believe it. But I didn`t question it. Because I mean who--

HILL: What nutjob would make up a story like that, right?

MCCREARY: Who would show death certificates? So I didn`t question it. But I just thought it was really sad.

HILL: When you look back on it now, was the fact that he wanted to show you so much proof, I mean going through the time and effort of making up fake death certificates to show you to prove it to you, is that perhaps something, a sign that you should have thought, he is trying too hard?

MCCREARY: No, actually, he originally told me that he was an engineer, that he used to be a doctor but he`s now an engineer, so probably the sudden change in careers, that should have been a red flag for me.

HILL: And so after you`re married, he realizes -- he goes back to medicine. He goes to the hospital and what happens there?

MCCREARY: He is there pretty much every day. He calls me from the hospital. Like I said, there were people that actually witnessed him there at the hospital, you know, friends, family. So I just thought I had this wonderful man.

HILL: And what happened?

MCCREARY: When he didn`t show up, it was really strange. And he hadn`t called. Because he always called me. But when he didn`t call, I decided to reach out and try to call him. And when I contacted him -- well, I called the cell phone number that he had, this lady answers the phone and she`s like, well, you need to contact security because this guy was arrested for impersonating a doctor.

HILL: And that wasn`t all he was doing. What about the kids and the parents?

MCCREARY: They are alive and well. No one is dead.

HILL: So he had children. His parents are still alive. Did he -- I mean, if you talk about your parents dying, there`s got to be a certain sort of sick gene in there that would even allow you to do that. Did you ever suspect anything regarding these stories? Anything was wrong?

MCCREARY: Well, the only thing that was really strange for me was that I could not find anything about this accident on the Internet.

HILL: But you looked?

MCCREARY: I did search for it.

HILL: Because that`s what I was wondering--

MCCREARY: I did search for it. But the reason I didn`t find it, was because he didn`t give me the correct name for his parents.

HILL: And so when you found out what was going on, did you confront him? Did you ever get a chance to say, hey, why did you tell me this stuff?

MCCREARY: I actually did. After he was arrested, I did go to visit. And I didn`t tell him what I found out. I just asked him, you know, are you really a doctor? And he said, yes, why would you ask me that? And he just continued with his story. Just continued. He never admitted to anything.

HILL: So you got divorced. And is that it? Done, finished? Or is he still in your life in some way?

MCCREARY: No, he is not in my life at all.

HILL: That`s good. All right, Joy, I think yours is the story that just touched me so much, because it is everybody`s worst nightmare. You can`t even imagine this. You met Joseph on a dating website, and this was it. You were not looking for a guy. It was just like oh, friends had been bugging you, you know, go out. And you did, and you met this guy, and he`s fantastic, gets along really well with your kids. You all get married, you have a child. And the only odd thing, is that he doesn`t want to talk about work, right?

JOY DESOMBER, FEATURED ON "WHO THE BLEEP DID I MARRY": Basically, that was definitely a red flag. That was something that I wanted to know more about.

HILL: And when you`d ask him, he would say things like, well, that is a different part of my life and it`s stressful and so I want to keep it separate. You know, this is family life, that is business life. And I guess that sounds plausible, doesn`t it?

DESOMBER: Some people are like that. And I just thought that was his personality. And he also worked up in Northern California and we lived in Southern California, so I never had a direct opportunity to see him at work or to interact directly with his work, so I thought if that`s his personality, then that`s what he wants to do.

HILL: Because he was in commercial real estate and it was eight hours away, but he had a good job, he was taking care of bills, going on nice vacations. Wow, you won`t believe what the reality was. Joy will explain that to us and it will blow you away. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: I`m back with my guests talking about spouses who have secret lives. And this one is a doozy. Joy DeSomber, we were talking about your husband. He was in commercial real estate, you got a great lifestyle, your parents think he`s fantastic, he treats you so well and they`re glad you finally found the right guy to take care of you. And then you start questioning that he never wants you to call him at certain times, and you find out there is someone else.

DESOMBER: In February of 2005, which was just 14 months after we got married, a woman called me and said that he signed a domestic partnership with her and they had been together and that he told her he was divorcing me -- and that they were going to--

HILL: Because you were crazy.

DESOMBER: I was a one-night stand that was on drugs. So he --

HILL: That`s what he said.

DESOMBER: So he was going to have full custody of our daughter. So this woman had prepared to be a stepmother to this little girl, to our daughter.

HILL: So at home, you`re probably going, oh my gosh, that`s horrible. Well, it gets even worse. He tells you he`s in commercial real estate. All of a sudden you hear horrible, tragic news that his business partner and his wife are murdered. How did he react when he told you this?

DESOMBER: He acted very mellow. To him, it didn`t seem to matter. The things he was concerned about was when the will was going to be read, which was several days down the road. So he wasn`t planning on going back up to Northern California to deal with the issues until the will was going to be read.

HILL: These were supposedly very, very close friends, almost like parents to him. They were that close, and they were in this business relationship for many, many years. And that struck you as strange. When did you realize the killer was your husband?

DESOMBER: Several days after the murders. It was on a Friday evening, we were on our way to one of the boats we had with him. My three children were in the van with me, and my mom called from Iowa and played some news from Northern California that said that the Wagners had been beaten to death.

HILL: And you had noticed on your husband that there were all these unexplained bruises. And when you had asked him, he`d given you strange answers. You went to the boat. And as soon as you were able to escape -- I don`t know how you kept it together. Then you ran right to the police, correct?

DESOMBER: I did. I called the tip line right away.

HILL: And is he out of your life? You`re divorced, I know that. Or is he still trying to control you?

DESOMBER: We are still defending ourselves consistently. We have a couple of hearings coming up in September. It`s been over five years. He files a lot of motions and unlimited civil suits against my mom.

HILL: Even though he`s in jail for what is it, two life terms?

DESOMBER: Correct.

HILL: Because he was convicted of this.

DESOMBER: Yes. His conviction, his sentencing and his appeal have all come and gone.

HILL: And to this second, despite all that evidence, he still claims it wasn`t him. Amazing stories. Thank you very much for being with us. And "Who the Bleep Did I Marry" airs Wednesday nights on Investigation Discovery.

Also, a quick note. Be sure to tune in. I have an interview with the very controversial Christine O`Donnell tomorrow night. 10:00 p.m. Eastern. Thanks for watching. Good night.

END