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Sean Phillips, Suspect and a Father of the 5-Month-Old Baby Missing, Is Not Cooperating; A 5-Year-Old Boy Was for Sale for $2,000; Michigan Police Say Daddy Knows Where Baby Kate Is and Won`t Tell

Aired August 22, 2011 - 20:00:00   ET


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Live, Michigan, a 5-month- old baby girl, baby Kate, missing without a trace, snatched right in front of Mommy, who`s left standing there with just the baby`s pacifier. We learn the same clothes Mommy dresses baby Kate in that morning, a tiny white top and pink diaper cover, are found, but no baby. Tonight, DNA proves paternity, but at this hour, the baby`s dad refusing to even speak to police.

Bombshell tonight. At this hour, police state no evidence baby Kate dead or alive, insisting just like tot mom`s case, this is not a whodunnit, it`s a, What did you do to your baby girl, case?

As we go to air, police begging the public for help to determine baby daddy`s movements between 1:00 and 4:00 PM the day baby Kate disappears, hoping against hope for sightings of Daddy`s `98 silver Oldsmobile. As cops reveal they have the baby`s clothing and carseat, still no sign of the newborn. Tonight, what happened to 5-month-old baby Kate?



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A devastating case.

911 OPERATOR: 911. Where is your emergency?

ARIEL COURTLAND, MOTHER: The father of my child took our daughter, and I don`t know where he`s at with her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Katherine Phillips is still missing.

GRACE: Snatched just within arm`s reach.

COURTLAND: I ran back upstairs to get my keys, and I came back down and they`re gone.

I want her back, and I wonder why he took her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He pleaded not guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He then referred to Katherine as "it" and again stated that Ariel had it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`ll never tell anybody where the baby is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sean Phillips, he just seems like he`s guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He hasn`t told anyone where she is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they started frisking him. They found baby Kate`s clothes in his pocket.

COURTLAND: He knows that Kate is his, and he doesn`t want to pay child support for her.


GRACE: And tonight, live, Florida. As her 5-year-old son set to start kindergarten Tuesday, instead of heading out for school supplies and new clothes, a 28-year-old Tampa mom goes shopping, all right, but she`s the one selling -- her son! Yes, the 28-year-old church mom puts her son, described as a, quote, "sweet little boy," on sale for $2,000. That`s some bargain, Mommy. Oh, hey, Mommy, you can pick up the money in hell!


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Beers is behind bars. Police say she tried to sell her 5-year-old son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Warning bells went off in my head.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d never really think somebody would stoop that low to sell their child.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was a sweet, sweet little boy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A sting was set up when they say she showed up to sell her son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I used to take walks with him and sing songs to him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cops say she tried to sell parental rights for cash.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yesterday, he says Beers told him he could adopt the boy for a price.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was, You can`t adopt him unless you pay me $2,000.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My stomach just sunk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The little 5-year-old boy was supposed to be starting kindergarten tomorrow morning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gardner (ph) still plans to fight to adopt him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s hope for him.


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. A 5-month-old baby girl, baby Kate, missing without a trace, snatched right in front of her own mother. At this hour, police state there`s no evidence the baby`s dead or alive, insisting it`s just like tot mom`s case, that this is not a whodunnit, it`s a, What did you do to your baby girl?


COURTLAND: The father of my child took our daughter, and I don`t know where he`s at with her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s anybody`s guess right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We still don`t know the whereabouts of baby Kate.

GRACE: There is a reward.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The clothes she was seen wearing.

GRACE: For the recovery of baby Kate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By her mother the day she was kidnapped have been found.

COURTLAND: I got in the car, and I forgot something. And I ran back upstairs to get my keys.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The little baby`s clothes were actually found on the father.

COURTLAND: She`s my daughter. He has no legal rights over her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were these the clothes that you last saw her in?

COURTLAND: I put it on -- I put them on her that morning.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Along with the clothes, Kate`s diaper bag and carseat were found in the trunk of Sean Phillips`s car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just isn`t talking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where`s Kate now?

COURTLAND: I have no idea.


GRACE: Where is baby Kate? Tonight, police telling us that there`s no evidence the baby is dead or alive. As the minutes tick by, straight out to Joe Gomez with KTRH. Joe, thank you for being with us. What can you tell me?

JOE GOMEZ, KTRH NEWS RADIO: Nancy, this beautiful 5-month-old little angel has been missing for over a month now, after her biological father tried to convince baby Kate`s mother to give her up for adoption. Her mother refused. He gets in the car -- he takes of with the baby in the back seat of his car, Nancy, and vanishes for several hours! That was the last time this beautiful little angel was ever seen. That guy has been rotting in a jail cell, Nancy, for over a month! He refuses to tell police what he did to that little girl!

GRACE: You know what, Marc Klaas? It`s making my stomach turn over. This is just like tot mom, except it`s tot pop. Here you`ve got the father. That morning, Marc Klaas -- I don`t know if you are familiar with this part -- that morning, Daddy is set to go to Afghanistan to deploy. So the mom is getting full custody and needs a DNA result so she can get garnishment of wages, so she can get child support while he`s in Afghanistan.

So he tells her they`re heading for the DNA test at the state office. Instead, he pulls her up in front of a state office, all right, Marc Klaas, but it`s the office for adoption. That morning, he tries to pull it over on the mother to adopt baby Kate, give her up without the mother`s consent. She insists they go home. She goes in to get the key and the stroller, comes back out, the baby`s gone.

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Which is why I think it`s hard -- it`s hard to find a scenario where he had somebody laying in wait for him to give the child to in any kind of a black market adoption or anything else like that. I think he really took -- he took advantage of a -- yes?

GRACE: Go ahead.

KLAAS: I think he took advantage of an opportunity -- he took advantage of an opportunity, and I believe he probably murdered the child.

GRACE: Tonight, no evidence the baby is dead or alive. But what we do know is the father is no longer even speaking to police.

We are taking your calls live tonight. Straight to Michigan right now. Standing by is Natisha Lance there on the scene, and with her is special guest April Lange. This is baby Kate`s grandmother joining us exclusively tonight to beg the public for help.

Natisha, you have been in close contact with the police. What did you learn?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, what police are saying is that this case begins and ends with Sean Michael Phillips. He is the person who has all of the questions, and they`re trying to narrow in on that timeline when he was last seen with baby Kate, in particularly, the hours between 1:00 PM and 4:00 PM on June 29th and that 1998 Oldsmobile Intrigue. It`s a silver vehicle.

He was gone for about an hour-and-a-half before police were able to locate him at his parents` house. He was pacing back and forth. Once he was brought in to police, Nancy, he was interviewed and questioned, but then he got an attorney. And from that point on, no more questions have been answered and no more questions have been asked.

GRACE: Well, as a matter of fact, Natisha Lance, I reported earlier that police have found baby Kate`s little tiny white top and her pink diaper cover. They found it stuffed down his pocket, Natisha.

LANCE: You`re absolutely right, Nancy. They did find that, as well as her carseat was in the trunk of his car. Now, something interesting here, Nancy, that we want to point out is that baby Kate -- she was kept a secret from his family. For whatever reason, Sean Michael Phillips did not want his family to know that this baby was coming into the world. Once he (SIC) did find out about them, (SIC) there was this issue about adoption. So that may be a reason as to why he did -- may have done something with the baby.

GRACE: Joining us right now is baby Kate`s grandmother, April Lange. Ms. Lange, thank you for being with us. I understand that baby Kate`s existence had been kept a secret from the suspect`s family, from Sean Phillips`s family. They had -- didn`t even really know that much about baby Kate. They had never met the baby. Why?

APRIL LANGE, GRANDMOTHER: They never had an interest in Kate whatsoever. They`d never met her. The only time they`d seen pictures of her since their son kidnapped her, through news coverage and pictures (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: But why? Why, Ms. Lange? Why...

LANGE: I don`t know why.

GRACE: They have no interest -- is it true that they always thought Sean, their son, their little boy, could have done better? Is that true?

LANGE: That`s true, yes. That is true. That is true.

GRACE: Explain.

LANGE: They always threatened Sean -- they threatened Sean, saying that they would kick him out of the home if he fathered another child with Ariel or fathered another child, period. They were angry when he had Haley (ph) to begin with. And then when he impregnated Ariel again, they kept it a secret from the Phillipses, you know, Sean`s mom and dad, until after, well after Kate was born. And the DNA test...

GRACE: So we have problems with Sean Phillips`s family as it relates to the mother and the baby, baby Kate, dating all the way back to baby Kate`s older sister, little Haley.

Everybody, we are taking your calls. We are live in Michigan. Straight out to Jessica in Michigan. Hi, Jessica. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I have a couple of questions for you, actually. One, I wanted to know -- I was at the preliminary exam (ph), and I would like to know why it is that Sean waited a half an hour after he called the cops for the cops to get there. Secondly, I`d like to know why Ariel had...

GRACE: Whoa! Wait a minute! Wait, wait! Whoa, whoa! Wait, wait, Jessica!


GRACE: You`re saying that Sean Phillips called the cops?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He returned a call from one of the Ludington Police Department officers, and he waited at his home for half an hour for them to get there, didn`t try to hide...

GRACE: Because he is not the one that called 911. Liz...


GRACE: ... if you could, cue up for me that 911 call. And what was your next question, Jessica?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`d also like to know from the preliminary exam is why Ariel had adoption papers filled out in her home and why she`s trying to...

GRACE: Oh, I can answer that for you. I can answer that for you. And Natisha Lance, let me go to you on this question. It`s my understanding that Sean Phillips had repeatedly asked baby Kate`s mother, Ariel, to give the baby up for adoption, that she didn`t want to, but at one point, she said, OK, you know what? If you`re insisting on this, you got to take her right now because if you leave her with me one more hour, one more night, I can never give her up. And that moment passed and she did not give the baby up for adoption, correct?

LANCE: You`re -- that`s correct.

GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls. We are live in Michigan. As the hours tick by, it is less likely that this child, baby Kate, just 5 months old, will be found alive.


911 OPERATOR: What is it you`d like to report, Ariel?

COURTLAND: The father of my child took our daughter, and I don`t know where he`s at with her. She`s my daughter. He has no legal rights over her. I was supposed to take her for a DNA test at 1:00 o`clock and -- for him, for child support. And he came over. I thought he was going to give us a ride there. So we got in the car. And I forgot something in my house, so I ran back upstairs to get my keys. And I came back down, and they`re gone.

911 OPERATOR: OK. All right. So he was supposed to transport you to a DNA. And you`re sure he didn`t go there? Did you call the courthouse?

COURTLAND: Yes -- he already -- no, he already went there. His appointment was an hour before mine was. He had already took the test. He just does not want me to bring Kate there because he knows that Kate is his, and he doesn`t want to pay child support for her.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This case has just been heartbreaking from the beginning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He took them down to the Department of Human Services to try to get the mother to give Kate up for adoption. When she refused, he took her back home, and that is when he sprang (ph) off (ph) and drove off with Kate, according to the mother.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In terms of where this baby is, it`s anybody`s guess right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The law is going to look to him. He was the last one that had control. And no doubt about it, he had a responsibility.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s been no proof that she`s been given up to somebody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family has told us the paternity proves the suspect, Sean Phillips, is baby Kate`s father. There is no question at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It goes to his state of mind. And listen, what we know about his state of mind is he never wanted this child.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s no proof that she`s deceased. You know, people are just banging their heads against the wall right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Emotionally immature people having children, and that there was some kind of a toxic mix there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whether or not he knew he was the father from a DNA test, he didn`t want little baby Kate.


GRACE: We are live in Michigan, taking your calls. Straight back out to Natisha Lance, joining us there on the scene, and with her is baby Kate`s grandmother. To Natisha. I understand that Sean Phillips, with -- when the cops were with the mother, Ariel, they had Sean Phillips, talking to him on the phone, and he tries to point the finger at the mom, Ariel. And she gets so upset, she steps outside the door and starts to vomit. Isn`t it true she passed a lie detector test?

LANCE: That is true, according to her. She says that she went to the police station. She was there for about 12 hours. She took the polygraph, especially because she said that Sean Phillips was blaming this on her. She took the polygraph and she says that she passed. Police, however, are not confirming or denying that.

GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls. Unleash the lawyers. High-profile lawyer, LA, Gloria Allred, Bradford Cohen, defense attorney, Miami, Penny Douglas Furr, defense attorney, Atlanta.

First of all, Bradford Cohen, why would you never have your parents meet your baby? What does that say to you, Bradford?

BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s a little weird. I mean, obviously...

GRACE: It`s a little weird.

COHEN: ... it goes to his -- it goes to his state of mind of whether or not he -- they were in approval of her. It goes to state of mind whether or not they were in approval. Maybe he was looking for approval.

GRACE: But here`s a grown man...

COHEN: But it doesn`t prove...

GRACE: ... more concerned about his...

COHEN: ... that whether or not he murdered a baby.

GRACE: ... parents` approval -- oh, really? Really? Is that what you`re saying?


GRACE: Then why did he have...

COHEN: Yes, 100 percent.

GRACE: ... her shirt and diaper pants stuffed down his pocket? Do you have a baby, Bradford?

COHEN: No, I do not have a baby.

GRACE: Well...

COHEN: But why would you murder a baby and then take her shirt and her diaper? Maybe he changed her clothes. I mean, there`s...

GRACE: To get rid of identifying...

COHEN: ... a different reasons for that.

GRACE: ... evidence. Hello? What about it, Gloria?

COHEN: Identifying evidence? You`re go to have her fingerprints. You`re going to have her footprints.

GRACE: Yes, I know that.

COHEN: When a baby is born, they take both of those.

GRACE: Well, let me turn that back around and ask you my original question.

COHEN: Sure.

GRACE: You answered my question with a question, Cohen. Why could you take a baby`s clothing and stuff it down your pocket?

COHEN: If you change the baby`s clothing before you gave him up to somebody?

GRACE: And what about the car seat stuffed in the trunk?

COHEN: Maybe he didn`t need to bring her back anywhere because he left her someplace with someone he knew.

GRACE: Oh, so the illegal black market new parents had clothes and a carseat waiting in what, their limo?


COURTLAND: I thought he was going to give us a ride there, so we got in the car. And I forgot something in my house, so I ran back upstairs to get my keys. And I came back down, and they`re gone.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were scheduled to go take a paternity test.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The father made it clear he did not want this child.

COURTLAND: He just does not want me to bring Kate there.

GRACE: It`s bigger than child support.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`ve had dogs. They`ve had helicopters.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A massive search.


GRACE: Tonight, police say this is not a whodunnit. Baby Kate now missing for several weeks, police saying it`s more of a, What did you do with your daughter? The baby`s biological father now holed up, refusing to speak to police at all.

I was speaking to the lawyers. Let`s go back to them. We`re all taking your calls. And with us on the scene, Natisha Lance and baby Kate`s grandmother, April Lange. Gloria Allred, Bradford Cohen, Penny Douglas Furr.

First to you, Gloria Allred. You have children, I know. You have grandchildren. Why would a grown person stuff baby clothes down your pocket? And why would he dislodge the carseat and stick it in the trunk? Why would you do that? The only time I have taken the children`s carseat out of the back is when I got them bigger carseats.

GLORIA ALLRED, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Well, I mean, there are different theories that are possible. But one is he forgot to take the clothes out of his pocket. Of course, his attorney wants to say if he were guilty, he would have hidden the clothes. Why did he take the carseat out? Well, his argument probably would be he needed it so other people could ride in the car. But then the other argument is maybe he thought that she was never going to need it again.

GRACE: You know, Penny Douglas Furr, I`m looking at a preliminary hearing clip, and I see them taking out those tiny clothes. All I can think about is how tiny John David and Lucy were at 5 months. You know, they were extremely premature. You saw them, Penny.


GRACE: And to think this child at 5 months...

FURR: They`re completely vulnerable at that age, totally vulnerable.

GRACE: ... being left somewhere, left in a dump, handed over to somebody, I don`t know. But his attorney advising him tonight, not to cooperate with police. He`s not even speaking to police, Penny.

FURR: Well, yes, Nancy, they`re not going to allow him to talk to the police because it could be very incriminating for him. But another reason I think with the clothes is he didn`t want his parents to know about this. But boy, do they know about it now. But I think he`s trying to hide this child completely from his parents.

GRACE: Yes, you know what, Penny? You`re right. That`s a heck of an introduction, to find out your son is now suspected in kidnap, a possible murder, a possible black market adoption. That`s how they find out about the baby. This is a grown man, and he`s more worried about what Mommy and Daddy think than taking care of his own baby girl?

We are live in Michigan tonight. Where is baby Kate?


COURTLAND: (INAUDIBLE) his appointment was an hour before mine was. He had already took the test. He just does not want me to bring Kate there because he knows that Kate is his and he doesn`t want to pay child support for her.




UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911, where is your emergency?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The father of my child took our daughter and I don`t know where he`s at with her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is the black market adoption linked to the disappearance of baby Kate?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no excuse for this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It seems like he`s guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s not talking but insists that baby Kate is still alive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The father of the child refuses a poly as the mom passes a poly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Extremely nervous and aggressive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very, very nervous. Muscle in his right bicep is twitching.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baby Kate`s clothes inside out, rumpled up in his pocket.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The little baby`s clothes were found on the father.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were these the clothes you last saw her in?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The clothes she was seen wearing -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At first he wanted an abortion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Said Kate is alive. And police believes that he knows where baby Kate is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to know why he took her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This case has been heart breaking from the beginning.


NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: As the baby daddy is set to be deployed to Afghanistan, mom insists on a DNA test and full custody so she can get child support while he`s overseas.

He drives her to get the DNA test, but as she gets out, she sees it is the state adoption bureau, insisting he take her back home, he does, she goes in to get the stroller, comes out, the car`s gone. The baby`s gone.

Tonight, where is 5-month-old baby Kate? Police confirming to us they have no evidence that the baby is dead or alive. As the hours tick by, it gets less likely we`ll ever find 5-month-old baby Kate.

We are taking your calls. Out to Jamie in Pennsylvania. Hi, dear. What`s your question?

JAMIE, CALLER, PENNSYLVANIA: Yes, I just want to know why the mom keeps claiming that his parents weren`t aware of her, but yet she has on her facebook status that they knew and kicked him out.

GRACE: That they knew what? I`m sorry, they knew what?

JAIME: That they knew about baby Kate and they kicked him out.

GRACE: They knew about baby Kate and they kicked him out. Oh, it was my understanding that they told their son, I guess, at his age, he`s living with his parents, that if he had another child, he did have a little girl, Haley, by the same mom, and was apparently living there at the mom`s house, we`re not sure where he was living, that if he had another child that they would disown him.

Let`s go to Natisha Lance. Can you clear that up?

NATISHA LANCE, PRODUCER, NANCY GRACE SHOW: Right, Nancy. Well, this was kept a secret up until a certain point after Kate was born. Then the parents did find out about her and allegedly, I guess they did kick him out of the house. He was staying for the most part with Ariel at her apartment and with the two other children.

GRACE: So, Jamie, in Pennsylvania, does that answer your question? I`m guessing it does. Out to Shell in New Mexico. Hi, Shell, what`s your question?

SHELL, CALLER, MEXICO: Hi, Nancy. How are you this evening?

GRACE: I`m good, dear.

SHELL: I`m curious, I have two questions. How can they not charge him with child endangerment, kidnapping, whatever he`s done? Or if he just joined the military, can`t the military legal system get involved and make him talk?

GRACE: You know what? Nobody can force him to talk, even in our military system. A suspect or defendant cannot be forced to talk. Now, Gizmo is a whole other can of worms. That is not on U.S. soil. But let`s talk about the first question.

To Joe Gomez, KTRH and I`ll address your second question, shell in New Mexico; he`s behind bars now on charges. What are they?

JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER, KTRH NEWS RADIO: He`s on a kidnapping charge, Nancy. And that`s - he could spend the rest of his life behind bars in that charge. Now, he could also face a murder charge if they can find the baby, of course, that depends on what the D.A. decides to do as it goes forward. But as of now, he`s going to go to trial on that kidnapping count.

GRACE: To Clinical Psychologist Doctor Leslie Seppinni joining us out of L.A. Doctor Seppinni, thank you for being with us.

I`m still and I know why doesn`t matter, the state doesn`t have to prove motive, we`re not expected to understand a criminal`s thinking, but how is it cheaper to avoid child support when you`re looking at life behind bars or in some cases the death penalty?

This seems like tot mom all over again. The baby is missing. The police know this guy, Sean Phillips, holds the key. The baby girl can`t be found. There is no trace of her. And he`s not talking or cooperating with police.

DOCTOR LESLIE SEPPINNI, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Here`s the deal. This is you know murder 101, period. Murder 101, same as tot mom, you`re exactly right.

If the police immediately had looked at tot mom as a suspect, we probably would have had a different outcome right away. So, in this particular case, the fact we have this outcome where he is a suspect, he is in custody is excellent.

The issue is the reason why it`s called revenge. This isn`t about money. This isn`t about child support. This is about the fact that he doesn`t have control over this woman. He doesn`t have control over his parental rights with this woman and he doesn`t have a romantic relationship with her. Sixty five percent of men that kill their children happen to commit infantry side, which means killing the baby and it is to get back at the mom.

GRACE: With that in mind, let me go to former police commander and polygraph expert Woodrow Tripp.

Woody, what are your thoughts? What can they do right now? And what is behind all of these? Come one, we see people get child support payments garnishments all the time. But then they don`t commit murder.

WOODROW TRIPP, FMR. POLICE COMMANDER, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: Well Nancy, two scenarios here. Either one, he was planning on giving the baby to someone or, two, he has harmed the baby. It is obvious from the spur of the moment type of situation that occurred there in his warped thinking maybe he thinks by giving the baby away they can`t prosecute him.

Well, they fooled him on that one. He`s sitting in jail now. As a polygraph examiner, unfortunately, he`s not cooperating. But we do have a test. It is called a spot test. Searching for attention where we literally divide areas up to try to locate and item a person or whatever it may be. But with him not cooperating it really stymied their efforts.

GRACE: Hold on, Woody. Look at your monitor. Liz, let me see the radius map you created where we see how far he can get in three hours going maximum 60 miles an hour, which, of course, it wouldn`t have gone that far.

You can`t go that far from 1:00 to 3:00 max. You got three hours. There. There you see it. I mean that`s as far - and a lot of that is including water, a pretty large body of water.

Everyone tonight, police looking for baby Kate. I want to go to Doctor Gwenn O`Keeffe, Pediatrician, founder and CEO of Doctor Gwenn thanks for being with us.

You know, when the mother was told by police, who were there with her, he`s pointing the finger at you, mommy, he`s saying you had her, he didn`t have her, it is your fault, she physically vomited when she heard that her long time boyfriend, the father of her two children, was saying she was responsible, somehow connected to this infant`s disappearance, she physically threw up. What triggers that? How can you hear something and be so devastated you vomit?

DOCTOR GWENN O`KEEFFE, PEDIATRICIAN, FOUNDER AND CEO, PEDIATRICSNOW.COM: You know it shows the mom`s emotional connection to the child and the situation. If you are fearful of your child`s safety, and as a mom, I know you know this and I feel this with my kids, you will physically feel ill. You have sort of an adrenaline rush.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, he was supposed to give you a ride to the DNA test of the courthouse, right?

ARIEL COURTLAND, BABY KATE`S MOTHER: No, It is at the hospital.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And how long ago did he take off?

COURTLAND: Just now. Five minutes ago. I`ve been trying to call his cell phone. He`s not answering.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Accused of trying to sell her own son.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tried to barter her own son to a couple at church and faced the judge wearing jail stripes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are times when they didn`t have toilet paper and she come over and ask for toilet papers because he would use his socks and clothes for toilet paper.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That 5-year-old boy who detective say, may have been up for sale.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Warning bells went off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Within hours, a sting was set up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s not going to be cared for by anyone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We raised him as a kid. I used to carry him and sing to him and pray with him and he was our boy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The boy was scheduled to start school on Tuesday and gardener plans to fight to adopt him.


GRACE: Putting her kindergartner described as a sweet little boy up for sale? He`s set to start kindergarten on Tuesday. But instead of buying school supplies, she`s shopping, all right, but she`s the seller. Offering up her child for $2,000. Yes, you can get that money, in hell, mommy.

Rory O`Neill, metro networks, what happened?

RORY O`NEILL, REPORTER, METRO NETWORKS: Well, it seems that Jim and Betty gardener took sympathy on this Jessica Beers about five years ago. And in that time, they have given her money, given her food, and oftentimes let her live at the house knowing she was a struggling young mother with this child.

And then after years now of being in and out of this gardener household, it was over the weekend, she called and said, I want to sell you my kid for two grand and I`ll sign off the paperwork so you can adopt him.

GRACE: This little boy having lived in that home for several years. That family stunned when mommy tries to sell the baby for $2,000. Weigh in, Gloria Allred.

GLORIA ALLRED, ADVOCATE, ATTORNEY AND VICTIM`S RIGHTS: Well, apparently there had been efforts to have them take custody in the past. But right now they of course, the big sticking point are that she`s asking for money and that is where the problem is. That is the felony, if in fact, that can be proven. Because while you can place your child for adoption, you cannot sell your child, you cannot even attempt to get money for your child. She should have gone to a lawyer and done it properly.

GRACE: And what happened in this case is they all met through their church. I believe gateway Baptist. Where that is located, Rory, gateway Baptist?

O`NEILL: That`s going to be in Pinellas county there somewhere in the state of St. Petersburg, area.

GRACE: To Alexis Weed, our producer on the story. Alexis, so they meet through this church. So, they think the mom is fine, upstanding, loves her son. She`s struggling, trying to get on her feet, she goes in and out of their home, largely living with them. And they grow to love the boy. Very often, they ask to adopt the boy.

Then finally mommy comes home, Alexis, and said, sure, I`ll give him to you for $2,000. Now, Alexis, isn`t it true she worked at a burger king and was found trying to steal about 500 bucks out of the till?

ALEXIS WEED, PRODUCER, NANCY GRACE SHOW: Yes, Nancy. This isn`t the first time this mom had trouble with the law. In 2008, she was accused and ended up pleading guilty to stealing about $500 out of the register where she worked in a local burger king. She`s now on probation for those charges. So she`s now in addition to the current charges she`s violated probation on top of it.

GRACE: And interestingly, the day she`s supposed to pay back, the day before she`s supposed to pay back the 500 bucks to burger king, she tries to sell her baby. There`s mommy. Hey, blue looks good on you, but orange would look even better in the state pen.

To Marilyn in Nebraska, Hi Marilyn, what`s your question?

MARILYN, CALLER, NEBRASKA: Hi, Nancy. What an honor to talk to you and the work you do is phenomenal. Thank you.

GRACE: Thank you, dear.

MARILYN: I don`t understand how anybody can sell their child. What was she going to do with $2,000? I mean, that`s like nothing anymore. Was it for drugs? Or you know what was she going to do with it?

GRACE: You know what I don`t even know who the father is. But I don`t know what she was going to do with the $2,000. We suspect she was going to try to pay back what she owed burger king.

Let`s ask the lawyers. Bradford Cohen, Miami, Penny Douglas Fir, Atlanta.

Number one, as if I care, Bradford Cohen, what she was going to do with the money, does it matter what she was going to do with the money, Bradford Cohen?

BRADFORD COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It doesn`t matter in the criminal case. It may matter for mitigation purposes if she`s a drug addict or she has psychological problems. Obviously, she is going to need to get some rehabilitation.

GRACE: So, you think it is going to help your client to tell the jury that she was trying to pay of restitution in her grand larceny? You think that`s going to help?

COHEN: No absolutely not. That`s why you wouldn`t tell the jury that. That would be for a plea, mitigation in terms of a plea. In terms of a jury, you wouldn`t say that. In terms of a jury, you would say you don`t understand the adoption process and didn`t understand this would be an illegal act because they individuals wanted to adopt in the first place.

GRACE: Penny Douglas Fir, I`m thinking back, back, back, back, and I seem to remember something from law school about ignorance of the law is no defense.

PENNY DOUGLAS FIR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s true, Nancy. But you would be surprised how lay people are totally un-aware that you can`t do this. I had a client come to see me once, he said "my daughter is pregnant, but if she gives that child for adoption, I want the people taking the child to pay for her college education."

They have no clue this is illegal and you can`t do it. It is very sad what this child will go through now, having to go through foster care and everything. They should be with this person they know who loves them and the child`s comfortable in that home.

GRACE: Well, you`re right, Penny. And whose fault is that? Mommy`s.

We are taking your calls. To Angie in Idaho, Hi, Angie, what`s your question?

ANGIE, CALLER, IDAHO: Yes, I just have a comment. I`d like to know how come if this mother wants to not have her child, then is willing to give it up for sale, she needs money obviously, but why don`t she just drop the baby off at a safe haven and let a family who wants the child to take care of it?

GRACE: You know what? You`re so right. To Doctor Leslie Seppinni, why not? Does it have to do to two thousands reason she doesn`t want to drop him off?

SEPPINNI: Let me tell you, somebody who was a foster care child, this case disgusts me. I mean absolutely sickens me because now with this child is relegated to is a life of being bounced around within foster care because we already know child protective services has trouble doing their job.

Just disgusts me what is out for this child. So if anybody out there, I beg you, if you`re a good family and need a child, let me tell you, you have a child you want to love and take care of, step forward and claim this kid. As far as this woman, the one thing we`re missing here is this woman is going to be in and out of rehabilitation for the rest of her life.

We`re talking about a very severe case of addiction. In which this child should not be returned to her. All too many times what happens in these cases is these women get their child back, as soon as they get out of rehab.

GRACE: To Doctor Gwenn O`Keeffe, Pediatrician, founder and CEO of Doctor O`Keeffe, I`m sure you have seen it all. Why is it that no matter how badly mommy treats her baby, the baby still wants mommy? Why is that, doctor?

O`KEEFFE: You know, Nancy, kids, especially at that age, just have this big heart and unconditional love. In fact, they try to take care of their mothers. I`ve seen it even younger than 5, where they just try to pick up mom`s mess and make her dinner and put the bed together and this kid was probably doing that because mom was really a mess and not there for him. So the roles get reversed starting very young. This kid really needs stability and love and very soon.

GRACE: And I want to hear your take Woody Tripp. It`s hard to handcuff a mommy, would me for me, of course. But what about it?

TRIPP: Absolutely Nancy. Don`t pass go or collect $2,000. Go straight a jail.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hate the system. He`s not going to be cared for by anyone. That child doesn`t know those people. They could be the best in the whole wide world, but you don`t know them. They don`t know him.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Set up a sting to bust mommy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mom sits in jail with a $10,000 bond. The five-year- old was always knocking on her door.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t want to go to my mom`s.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here`s the accused of trying to sell adoption rights to the boy for $2,000 to this couple.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We raised him as a kid. I used to carry him and sing to him and pray with him and he was our boy.


GRACE: We are taking your calls. Mommy arrested for trying to sell her 5- year-old little boy. As he set to go off to kindergarten. Mommy`s school shopping, all right, nut she`s a seller trying to sell he child.

We are taking your calls. But to Marc Klaas, you have championed children for so long. I want to hear your thoughts.

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I think that the gardener`s did exactly the right thing by contacting the police. Whether or not they get the child or not ultimately I guess is anybody`s guess. I agree that they probably should. I think it could have gotten a lot worse had they not gone to the police, had they not given her the $2,000. Who knows where she would have shopped that baby ultimately.

GRACE: To Katie in Canada, Hi Katie, what`s your question?


GRACE: Hi dear, what`s your question?

KATIE: Why did she do that?

GRACE: Why did she do it? Well, I can only think she wanted to make money off her child. What it`s for Katie in Canada is irrelevant.

Let`s stop and remember Army Lieutenant Colonel Eric Krueger, 40, Garland Texas. Killed Iraq. 20 years of service. Also served Afghanistan. Awarded two bronze stars, Purple Heart, meritorious service medal. Buried at Arlington. Also served two presidents. A Southern Methodist grad, a history buff, loved SMU basketball, traveling, antiques, collecting them all over the world. Leaves behind grieving parents Lawrence and Carol, stepmother Maria, Brother Douglas, Sister Christie, Widow Sarah, children Christian, Elise, Katelyn, and Joshua.

Eric Krueger, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially you for being with us.

And special good night from Alabama and Georgia friends, winners of the ovarian cancer research fund benefit, Lindsay and Ashley.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp eastern. Until then, good night, friend.