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Nancy Grace

Cindy and George Anthony on "Dr. Phil" Part 2

Aired September 14, 2011 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: Yes, I blame my daughter for Caylee not being here today.

PHIL MCGRAW, HOST, "DR. PHIL": Are you saying she went psychotic and lost contact with reality?

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: Possibly. I don`t know that.

GEORGE ANTHONY: She`s responsible.

MCGRAW: You believe that she drowned.

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, I do.

MCGRAW: Do you believe it was an accident?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, I do.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I believe that Casey, or someone else that she was with, possibly gave too much to Caylee, she fell asleep and didn`t wake up, possibly some kind of drug.

CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t buy that for a moment. I`m sorry.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I can`t understand how she could drown and all of a sudden end up at the end of our street.

CINDY ANTHONY: I was told that Caylee was found in a different spot than where Casey thought she was.

GEORGE ANTHONY: And where Caylee was eventually placed, Casey had something to do with it. I know that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: Tonight, breaking news, the new, shocking interview with George and Cindy Anthony. You will not believe it. Caught on tape, going against the opinion of his wife, Cindy, just inches away, George Anthony admits he believes Caylee was drugged by Casey Anthony so she could party, and that`s how Caylee died.

But Cindy Anthony continues to make excuses, even excusing the way the body of little Caylee was thrown away in that dump like trash! And that`s not all. Cindy Anthony actually says justice for Caylee was when Casey Anthony walked free from jail.

And tonight, joining us exclusively for his reaction to all of this is the very first judge in the Casey Anthony case, Judge Stan Strickland. And he is here. He`s taking your calls.

But first out to reporter Robyn Walensky on TheBlaze.com. She was in that courtroom for the entire time. Robyn, we now have on the record George Anthony saying he believes the theory of the prosecutor`s case.

ROBYN WALENSKY, THEBLAZE.COM: Jean, great to be back and to see you again from the trial. I have to tell you that George Anthony -- I watched the whole thing today and the whole thing yesterday on Dr. Phil. George Anthony at the beginning and end of the day is a cop and now he`s a retired cop, and he believes that his daughter murdered his granddaughter.

However, his wife -- they are on opposite sides of the highway, Jean. She is delusional, Cindy Anthony. I was watching this today, and I`m thinking to myself, You know what? You know, you see the daughter Casey with all these fictitious characters in her life, and lie after lie after lie and delusional thinking. Well, you know what, Jean? The apple doesn`t fall far from the tree.

Look at her mother. She sits there, and Dr. Phil says, Wow, we just want to shake you and wake you up. America wants to wake you up into reality. Well, the woman clearly can make an excuse for absolutely every behavior, her husband`s gambling, her husband`s alleged cheating, and her daughter`s lies!

CASAREZ: And you know, Robyn Walensky, as it kept going on and on and on, it keeps getting worse and worse and worse.

Out to Alexis Tereszcuk, senior reporter for Radaronline. You know, when it got to the point about the burial, where Caylee was thrown, George Anthony believes Casey was there, believes she participated, believes others could have been involved. But when Cindy was asked, there was, like, a justification at this point for throwing Caylee away triple-bagged?

ALEXIS TERESZCUK, RADARONLINE.COM: That`s the thing. It`s amazing that Cindy just thinks that Casey had almost nothing to do with this at all. It was somebody else. I mean, it`s almost similar to Casey`s lies. It was Zanny the nanny. It was Juliet Lewis. It was my friend here. I worked at Universal.

Cindy cannot tell the truth in this situation. And with her husband sitting right there saying, you know, One and one adds up to two, I believe my daughter had something to do with little Caylee being found in the swamp, in a trashbag -- Cindy, no, not at all. She had nothing to do with it. That`s her side (ph), is her daughter really had nothing to do with her granddaughter`s death.

CASAREZ: And Alexis, let`s tell everybody exactly what Cindy Anthony said. Cindy Anthony said, you know, somebody, yes, threw Caylee away. But you know what? Her soul was gone. It was just her body -- in a sense, justifying of how Caylee was found? I think everyone was shocked by that, very shocked.

Everyone, we`ve got a very special guest tonight. As I just said, this is the original judge in the Casey Anthony case. Judge Stan Strickland is joining us tonight exclusively from Orlando.

Your Honor, thank you for joining us, very much. The first thing I really want to ask you -- there has been a lot of controversy with you speaking out on this show, on the trial, and I just want to ask you -- obviously, it appears as though you can do it. Are you violating any judicial canons by talking about this case?

JUDGE STAN STRICKLAND, FIRST JUDGE IN CASEY ANTHONY CASE: No, I don`t think so. And I didn`t come on originally or now to criticize the jury. What I said to Nancy Grace shortly after the verdict was that I was surprised by it. I was surprised. I don`t see any problem in saying that. I`m still surprised.

And by the way, the menu`s fairly small. Either you were surprised or you weren`t. And I was surprised by the verdict. The jury is free to do whatever they did, and they had their reasons for doing so.

I got say, since I`ve heard some of the commentary by the jury post- verdict, I guess I`m even a little bit more surprised. But I`m not criticizing them. They gave eight weeks of their life. They don`t have to agree with me or any other judge. I see no harm at all in saying I was surprised.

CASAREZ: All right. We got that out of the way. Now I want to ask you about this interview by Dr. Phil with George and Cindy. And I think the shocker is really Cindy because as it kept going this afternoon, we heard, as George Anthony says, rationalizing. I think a lot of people just wanted to strangle her, Judge.

STRICKLAND: Yes, it appeared that way. I -- first of all, I don`t watch much of the daytime TV, and I haven`t seen much of this. But I think Dr. McGraw did a real nice job with this interview. I thought he was tactful and I thought he had a deft touch in pulling information out of these folks that nobody else could quite do.

But even with his deft touch, he couldn`t quite get Cindy to admit anything that was meaningful. So I don`t know that any of us learned anything. I can`t help but feel sorry for them. I still do. In the interview, you can see the cop come out in George. I don`t quite know how to describe Cindy. She`s...

CASAREZ: Your Honor, let`s let everybody listen to something that Cindy said. I want your comments on this afterwards. It has to do with justice for Caylee. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: I prayed to God for three years to find out what happened to Caylee. And I prayed during the whole trial that God would give me closure, and if Casey was responsible for Caylee`s death, that Casey would go to jail and be punished. And when that verdict came in and Casey was free, I got my answer, that it was an accident. And I believe that justice for Caylee was when her mother walked. I believe that with all my heart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And you are watching emotional video of George and Cindy Anthony on the "Dr. Phil" show. Judge Stan Strickland joining us exclusively tonight, the first judge in the Casey Anthony murder trial.

Judge, when you hear Cindy Anthony say this and many other things, do you feel it`s genuine? Does she believe with her heart and her soul that it was an accident, that Casey bears no responsibility?

STRICKLAND: Unfortunately, I think she is genuine. And the essence of what she had to say was that God set her daughter free. And I would just beg to differ. A jury set her daughter free. And a friend of mine says God lives in Pinellas County, so maybe there`s some substance to that.

And I don`t know what to say. I feel for her. I know she`s in pain. I want to like her. I can`t. I don`t dislike her. I just -- from the very beginning, I`ve just always felt like she was a lost ball in high weeds.

CASAREZ: Let`s go to Wendy Walsh right now, psychologist joining us from Los Angeles, co-host of "The Doctors." Wendy Walsh, you`re a professional and we need that. We`re lawyers and we need a psychological professional here.

So many things she said -- that throwing her away in a dump was really nothing because her soul had gone away. She believed that Casey was not responsible through mental illness or otherwise, just rationalization after rationalization. Does she really believe this, Wendy?

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: I think she wants to believe something. And I agree with the judge that, you know, there`s no better interviewer for this than Dr. Phil. He`s the ultimate truth serum. And still, her true truth couldn`t come out.

I think the problem is -- the reason why we go into denial, the reason why people get in these deep states of denial is because they can`t tolerate the real feelings beneath it. And she has what we call cognitive dissonance. That`s some psychobabble. It basically means she`s got an allegiance to her daughter, she`s got an allegiance to her granddaughter. She can`t fathom hurting either or blaming either, so she goes into this state of denial and says, I`m going to let the jury figure this out, and then that`s God`s answer.

CASAREZ: But here`s the thing. She equated George Anthony and his issues with spending money -- yes, he did on-line gambling. Yes, he took from the family $30,000. She equated what he did and what triggered him to do that with what triggered issues with Casey involving Caylee?

WALSH: Well, I think that she`s trying to say that the whole family dynamic was a mess. And somehow, if the father hadn`t misbehaved, the daughter wouldn`t have. But I think it all began many, many years ago. These kinds of enmeshed (ph) families, these systemic problems, as you see her lying or her state of denial, and then as our guest said earlier, the apple doesn`t fall far from the tree -- a lot of this is learned behavior.

And I think that what happened with Casey and her bad behavior happened early, just as the denial from her parents did. I mean, how can a daughter who lives with you have a job for two years and it doesn`t really exist, and you`re never asking enough questions to find out? How can she disguise a pregnancy for five months from her own mother? This mother lived in denial. And the family made little compartments about what they`re going to pay attention to and what they`re not.

CASAREZ: But you know, defending Cindy for a minute, Casey would wear her identification badge every day when she walked out of the house, showing that she was an employee of Universal. And her lies -- I heard them in court. I was sitting right there as Casey explained lie after lie after lie. I would have believed them, too. They were that good. They were that specific.

WALSH: Well, I have to say -- I have to say one thing. I started a new job recently, and every single family member I have who`s nearby has come to visit me at work. I would have visited my daughter at work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCGRAW: Are you trivializing burying this child in the woods because she was a Christian and believed her soul had left her body?

CINDY ANTHONY: No, I`m not. That`s not the right place for Caylee`s remains to be. I mean, I feel that as soon as someone dies, they`re gone and that`s just a shell. Our body is just a vehicle to be on this earth. But I would never -- I would never place anybody that I loved like Caylee was found. I would never do that. And I don`t think that that was right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: My daughter has been missing for the last 31 days. I know who has her. I`ve tried to contact her.

CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter may have some mistruths out there or half truths, but she is not a murderer.

My daughter from day one, she has been a victim just as much as Caylee has.

MCGRAW: There are millions of people in America right now that want to shake you awake.

CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know what happened to her. And was it so traumatic that her whole world went upside-down and it was easier for her to believe that Caylee was with the nanny, to put it aside and go on with her life because she couldn`t face the tragedy?

MCGRAW: Are you saying she went psychotic and lost contact with reality?

CINDY ANTHONY: Possibly. I don`t know that. But I mean, something happened that day that forever changed her behavior.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez, in for Nancy Grace. Explosive interview with George and Cindy Anthony today. You`ve been watching an emotional video of George and Cindy Anthony, for the first time speaking out since this trial on the "Dr. Phil" show, Cindy Anthony really giving divergent answers, on the one hand, saying that she believes it was an accident, an accident that got out of control, on the other hand, believing that George Anthony played no role in it, as the defense said and alleged in their opening and closing statements.

I want to go out to Ellie Jostad, NANCY GRACE producer. Ellie, what does Cindy really think happened here?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Cindy Anthony believes this accidental drowning theory. She says she doesn`t believe the circumstances surrounding it -- she doesn`t believe that her husband, George Anthony, was there or helped dispose of the body. But she 100 percent seems to believe the accidental drowning theory. And she believes that Casey may have known about it, but she doesn`t believe this drugging theory that George believes in.

CASAREZ: All right. And joining us tonight exclusively is Judge Stan Strickland. He`s the original judge on the Casey Anthony murder trial. Judge Strickland, it was brought up in the interview today about the jurors not believing the demeanor of George Anthony on the stand, not feeling that he had the credibility as that witness to be believable.

George Anthony`s response was that he felt that it was a smear campaign against him to try to get Casey Anthony acquitted. Why do you think the jurors didn`t believe George Anthony? I sat in that trial. I heard every bit of evidence. I thought he was extremely credible.

STRICKLAND: He was. Most of what he said made perfect sense. And if you associated his testimony with the videos of him, especially the one where I think he was discussing a missing Caylee with Casey while at the jail, and she was telling him about, I couldn`t have asked for a better father -- I do not know how the jury could have looked at that tape and arrived at their conclusion that he was somehow there and had something to do with it.

Let me again preface that, or actually follow up, by saying I`m not criticizing them. They saw what they saw. They felt what they felt. And that is their job, and it`s not my position to ridicule them for it. I just don`t get it.

And normally, when an attorney makes promises in opening statement that he doesn`t keep, generally -- and Mr. Sheaffer can back me up on this -- they`re punished severely by the jury later on. If you make promises that you don`t keep, if you say you`re going to prove something that you don`t prove and then you don`t do it, you get a swift kick for that. And that didn`t happen here.

There never was any evidence, literally not one shred of evidence, that George had anything to do or was anywhere near a drowning or the hiding of the body. That came in opening statement, and not one witness or word was advanced in support of that.

So I don`t quite -- I`m not able to square what the jurors had to say post-verdict with what their thinking was. And again, that`s fine. They thought what they thought. They did what they did. I just don`t quite understand it.

CASAREZ: All right. Andrew Scott (ph), former police chief, Boca Raton, Florida, your thoughts on this interview, this riveting interview today on the "Dr. Phil" show.

ANDREW SCOTT, FMR. BOCA RATON POLICE CHIEF: Well, I`ll have to echo what some of your guests have mentioned, is that it appears that the mother is clearly in some semblance of denial, if not complete denial, and that she doesn`t want to come to terms with the fact that her daughter had everything to do with the demise of her granddaughter. And that is -- it`s really a tragic story that`s still unfolding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCGRAW: What would be the purpose of sedating the child?

GEORGE ANTHONY: To go out to have a good time, to be with friend, to have this life that she didn`t have with Caylee, I mean, some freedom that she wanted. That`s what I feel.

MCGRAW: You find that speculation offensive.

CINDY ANTHONY: Well, it`s the first time I`ve heard it. And we`ve been through this for three years, and this is the first time I`ve heard that out of his mouth. I`ve heard him over and over again say that he in no way believed that Casey did anything to Caylee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I just want to let everyone know that I`m sorry for what I did. I take complete and full responsibility for my actions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was some emotional distress (INAUDIBLE) like she wanted to cry.

CASEY ANTHONY: I feel extremely guilty. No, I`m -- I`m going to hang up and just walk away right now.

MCGRAW: Is Casey disturbed?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, I think something terribly...

MCGRAW: Would you consider that she`s seriously disturbed?

CINDY ANTHONY: I think there`s something seriously wrong with my daughter and her thought processes. I think that something started before or during her pregnancy. And after Caylee was born, I think something started to trigger because Casey was not that person prior to that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: You are watching brand-new video, emotional video, just released of George and Cindy Anthony on the "Dr. Phil" show, the first time they have spoken out since the trial.

We have callers tonight. Tyler in Iowa. Hi, Tyler.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi.

CASAREZ: Thank you so much for calling. Your thoughts, your questions?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I appreciate you letting me on the show. I really think that somebody needs to speak up on the side of Cindy and George and even Casey. I really believe -- I watched the whole trial. I think there`s something mentally wrong with that girl that -- you know, that there`s just so much wrong with her that we`re not seeing or not checking out. And everybody wants to judge her, you know, by her actions and what happened.

And as far as Cindy goes, I mean, she`s a mom. I mean, if it was my kid that did this, I would have to stand by my kid. I mean, that`s my blood. That`s her blood. And Cindy knew her before this trial. You know, she`s the only one that knows the girl like -- like she knows her. And how can we judge her? I mean, that`s her daughter.

CASAREZ: Tyler, you`re right. And none of us can be in her shoes. And I agree with you. You know, as Nancy has said, if it was my daughter, here`s my arm, put the needle in, you know? You definitely are going to stand by your daughter.

I want to go to the lawyers. Bill Sheaffer, former prosecutor, WFTV legal analyst, joining us tonight from Orlando, Richard Herman, defense attorney out of New York, and Remi Spencer, defense attorney also out of New York.

Richard Herman, let me go to you first. All right, mental issues -- why wasn`t there some type of an actual mental defense by the defense, if there are so many mental issues, such as a grand mal seizure or a brain tumor or post-partum schizophrenia?

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, we don`t know if any of those things are real. I mean -- I mean, the mother is saying that now, and it`s based on her opinion and her medical knowledge, which is zero. Who would believe anything any Anthony family member says? They are not descendants of Abraham Lincoln, all of them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCGRAW: Let me ask each of you, do you believe that this child drowned?

CINDY ANTHONY: I had suspicions of that early on. I brought that up to the sheriff`s department on the 16th of July. They pretty much didn`t look into that, and they never asked Casey. She was already in custody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCGRAW: "I decided to leave the earth. I`m satisfied with my decision because I have never been the man that you, Lee, Casey, and especially Caylee Marie deserved." Sign off by saying, "I love you, Cynthia Marie, Caylee here I come. Lee, I`m sorry." And then Casey, and there`s just a hyphen.

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: There`s nothing more I could say to her. Because I blame her for Caylee not being here.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And that, of course, was the suicide note that George Anthony wrote in January of 2009 that did not come in to evidence but Dr. Phil spoke with him about it today.

You were watching emotional brand new video just released of George and Cindy Anthony on the "Dr. Phil Show."

And I think Tyler in Iowa brings up a very good point because no matter how we feel about Cindy as she`s saying these things, and we don`t agree with her, the torment that she has to have inside of her must be immense to this day.

I want to go to Wendy Walsh, psychotherapist joining us from Los Angeles. Here`s what I`m very, very concerned about. As I watched George and Cindy Anthony in that trial, week after week, day after day, I saw their bonding. They were so close during that trial, they would talk at breaks, they would go in a corner and just talk with each other.

Can their marriage survive, Wendy, when they have such divergent opinions on their daughter?

WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST, EXPERT ON MOMLOGIC.COM: Well, it`s surprising to me that they bonded over this trial. Because it`s like coming together against a common enemy. In this -- in this case it was the trial itself and all the media exposure against them. So that was a way to bond them.

You`re asking me whether it can last. You know, I hate to make dire predictions but, you know, this is a couple who`s been on the rocks before, who`s been separated before. Now we see that they have completely divergent beliefs about their daughter.

If Casey walks back in and mom wants to take her back in, and dad doesn`t, what`s going to happen? It`s a very interesting triangle between these three, and I`m not sure the couple is functioning as one cohesive unit.

CASAREZ: You know we want to show everybody, and I for one want them to work it out. They`ve been through too much to have more pain. But on the air today on the "Dr. Phil Show," there is an example of this divergence between the couple. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: There was never any signs that Caylee was drugged. And with the toxicology reports I don`t buy that for a moment. They never found anything like that. And none of her friends ever said that Casey did drugs.

If that was true, they`d have a story to tell and none of them told that story so I don`t buy that for a moment. I`m sorry. I mean we disagree about this, but again like I said, this was the first time I`ve heard those words come out of his mouth.

G. ANTHONY: No, I`ve said it a few different times, I believe a lot of different things that happened. I really do.

C. ANTHONY: And you never told me your theory that you thought that Caylee was sedated. This is the first time you ever said that to me. I`m really kind of shocked to hear that today.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: So this is the first time George Anthony has told his wife and America he`s believing the prosecution`s case against their own daughter Casey Anthony. And this is emotional video of George and Cindy Anthony on the "Dr. Phil Show". It just aired today. Brand new video.

I want to go out to Wendy in Michigan. Hi, Wendy.

WENDY, CALLER FROM MICHIGAN: Hi, how are you?

CASAREZ: I`m fine. Thank you for calling.

WENDY: Thank you so much for letting me on the show. I`m a huge fan. But more so I have followed this case from the get-go. And I have so much to say and I know I can`t get it all out. But can I just say here that I believe George is -- he`s the scariest human being in the world to me. He`s a sick man.

I don`t know -- I don`t think that Casey was drugging Caylee. I think moms know best. Hello?

CASAREZ: Yes. I`m riveted. I`m listening to you, Wendy. Keep going.

WENDY: OK. I think that, you know, moms know best. I think that if anyone were to know that it would have been Cindy, although Cindy has been wishy-washy. I don`t -- the thing about Cindy that bothers me the most is she`s now saying, you know, about how her daughter is mentally -- you know mentally unstable. Well, why wouldn`t she have said that long ago when she wanted to find out who or what happened with Caylee?

CASAREZ: Right. And she never did.

Wendy, I want to ask you. What is scary to you about George Anthony?

WENDY: His demeanor but mostly his -- it bothers me from the -- he`s saying about how she was drugged. How he said that about the stench in the trunk. I feel like he`s trying to pin things on Casey.

I don`t know. It`s just something that just rubs me that way and a lot of things that were said during the trial, the so-called affair. He`s just a very shady, scary man. I don`t think there`s one ounce of goodness in him.

CASAREZ: Wow. Wow.

Bill Sheaffer, former prosecutor, WFTV legal analyst. That was Wendy in Michigan. And that is what some of the jurors expressed in post-verdict interviews.

BILL SHEAFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, WFTV LEGAL ANALYST: You know what George`s mistake was, George`s mistake was ever in denying the affair with River Cruz. And that permeated the rest of his testimony.

Let me tell you something. I was there with you, Jean, and he was a grieving, caring grandfather and to imply that he, A, molested his daughter, or B, had any hand in the death of that child is just almost unconscionable.

And I want to say one thing also. I give high props for Judge Strickland coming out and talking about this case. Took a lot of guts to do that because he`s taken a lot of heat from the defense and it`s been unfair heat that`s been provided.

Lastly, Jean, were your surprised, really, when Cindy got on the stand and said the things that she said and what she said to Dr. Phil? I am not. It was her agenda. She was cooperating with the defense. It was her agenda to make sure that her daughter was acquitted of these charges.

She danced around the head of perjury and in my opinion she should have been charged with perjury but you know that she won`t be because it would just appear as though it`s sour grapes or retribution for the not guilty verdict.

CASAREZ: You know Judge Stan Strickland, while you are with us, I have a couple of questions. But there are so many civil cases going on now in this -- in this case. Could any of what is said now come back to haunt the couple in an upcoming civil case?

JUDGE STAND STRICKLAND, FORMER CASEY ANTHONY JUDGE: Potentially I`m not sure I`ve heard everything they said. I guess it might have been wise to delay things a little bit. I`m also not familiar with every single case that`s been filed. I know there`s one coming up and one, there`s apparently a motion to dismiss pending, and I can`t really comment on that.

Most of what they said I would view as genuinely -- I would say genuinely innocuous but a few of the things that they said could come back to haunt them.

CASAREZ: All right. And we`ve got Judge Stan Strickland --

STRICKLAND: Or I should say, her.

CASAREZ: With us, exclusively tonight. When we come back I want to ask him about Casey Anthony now serving probation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

G. ANTHONY: When you`re asking yes or no questions sometimes and you can`t expand upon it, explain why it`s a yes or no, I guess it could be perceived from maybe holding something back but I`ve never held anything back. And if someone believed that I was involved in this, why was I never brought up on charges?

I`ve talked to the prosecutor, I talked to law enforcement, the FBI. I`ve taken a voice analysis test. I`ve taken everything I can possibly take to prove exactly what I know and what I don`t know. I`ve proven them.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: She`s the most important thing in this entire world to me. I haven`t been crying while I`ve been in here.

G. ANTHONY: A quarter of a mile away from our house. How could she be so close and also be so far away from us?

C. ANTHONY: Know Casey knows where Caylee was placed. I men I know in my heart. I know that now. I believe that Casey had knowledge or had something to do with placing Caylee there.

G. ANTHONY: I can`t excuse her for whatever happened. I can`t do that. She`s responsible for Caylee and whatever happened to Caylee she has knowledge of that. And where Caylee was eventually placed, Casey had something to do with it. I know that.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Cindy Anthony saying today on Dr. Phil`s show, first interview since the trial, justice has been served because Casey was found not guilty.

You`ve been watching emotional video of George and Cindy Anthony on the "Dr. Phil Show."

I want to go back to Judge Stan Strickland who was the original judge on the murder case, who is responsible for Casey Anthony serving this year of probation being in Florida now.

Judge, when Casey was released, and it was obviously a big deal, the cameras, the helicopter, the maneuvers so no one would see her when she was released from jail and she walked free, did the thought go through your mind that she should have been on probation?

STRICKLAND: It briefly crossed my mind, but to be honest with you by that time I had been out of the case for 18 months. I think I sentenced her on the bad check charges, which by the way was 13 felonies. It seems to me that was January of `08, maybe. And then I think by April of `08 -- maybe I`m getting my years wrong, maybe it was April of `09, I was out of the case.

But I didn`t really remember exactly what I had said at her probationary sentence and alert AP reporter, somebody called our office about the time that Miss Anthony was about to be released and said wait a minute, Judge Strickland said her probation was to begin following her release.

Not -- and of course normally nobody is sentenced to probation while they are in jail. And let me just remind you, you know, there were 13 felonies here. The state was setting this up for a death penalty case and they wanted as many felonies as they could -- as they could have stacked up against her.

I cut her a break. I gave her a withhold of adjudication in seven of the 13 felonies, and by law, when you withhold adjudication you must sentence somebody to a period of probation.

I sentenced her to a period probation. At the time I did it, the state said basically it doesn`t really matter when her probation is or how it`s served. Jose Baez spoke up and said well, you`re being awfully presumptuous. We think she`s going to get out. I said, OK, have it your way. If she`s going to get out she`ll begin serving probation once released.

And then of course I was out of the case a few months after that. We all sort of forgot about it. And truth be known not too many people thought she would be getting released. So an alert AP reporter called on this immediately. We got the video of my sentencing and I got a transcript of it and son of a gun they were right.

I said probation was to begin upon release. And then not to -- not to make the story interminable but it -- something had to be done. A legal sentence was entered by me. It was on appeal. By the way, the defense was happy with it when I did it and so what remained to be done was to correct a scrivener`s (ph) error.

CASAREZ: And --

STRICKLAND: Judges do it all the time. They do it every day.

CASAREZ: And Casey Anthony is now on probation for a year.

STRICKLAND: Yes.

CASAREZ: I want to go to Grace in Pennsylvania. Hi, Grace.

GRACE, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, how are you?

CASAREZ: Thank you for holding on. What`s your question?

GRACE: OK. I was listening to everything going on, and George said that Casey might have been using drugs on the baby, on Caylee to sedate her? And if that is so, and they thought that, why didn`t they have the child removed from the mother?

This is what I don`t understand. Everything could have been prevented. They were already raising her as if she was their own. Why didn`t they just take the next step and admit that the daughter had mental issues and she did not want to be a mother. Not every person is brought up in this world to be a mother.

CASAREZ: You know, Grace, I`m making some assumptions here but I think George Anthony may be saying now in hindsight and especially after the evidence he had no idea what the levels of chloroform were in his own car.

I want to go out to Dr. Ann Contrucci, who is a pediatrician joining us tonight from Atlanta.

What do you make of that? George Anthony obviously agreeing with the prosecution`s theory that drugs caused the death. We`ll never know because there was no tissue with the skeletal remains when they were found. So that will be a question that can never be answered and could ultimately have been partially responsible for a not guilty verdict.

DR. ANN CONTRUCCI, M.D., PEDIATRICIAN: Certainly that`s true, Jean. I think again -- I mean the only person that knows is Casey. You know the fact that there was no hard evidence for drugs. There was just this circumstantial that she had looked things up about chloroform on the Internet. I mean that`s not exactly something you do just for fun.

That kind of thing. But I think there`s really no answer. The only person that can answer that is Casey. I don`t know really what else to say about that.

CASAREZ: Well, the levels of lower form were very high. The levels of decomposition in the trunk were also there. It was a circumstantial case.

Remi Spencer, defense attorney joining us out of New York. Your thoughts on the revelations today on Dr. Phil`s show especially from Cindy. George Anthony, first time confirming he believes Casey responsible for the death, but Cindy believing that justice was had when Casey walked free.

REMI SPENCER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it`s fascinating to watch this couple share their thoughts and their feelings about what happened in their daughter`s trial but that`s exactly what it is. It`s their thoughts and their feelings. So I don`t think it will be relevant in any subsequent civil cases.

I would like to comment, though, on what Cindy said about the not guilty verdict being justice and I have to agree with that. Whether we agree that the jury got it right or got it wrong, the process worked. It was a fair trial. There was a good judge who made firm rulings. The parties had excellent lawyers arguing on their behalf and the jury rendered a decision.

That procedure, that process in itself is justice. So I think that Cindy is 100 percent right when she says that justice was done in this case.

CASAREZ: But Richard Herman, Cindy Anthony said today on the show that Casey was an awesome mother. She was a great mother. But remember the testimony, Richard Herman? Lee Anthony said when he was in the bedroom that night with Casey that Casey said mom told me I was an unfit mother and maybe I am.

Number two, on the first 911 call Cindy Anthony said the next thing we`re going to do is go to court and get an order to get the child.

What she said today doesn`t fit with the evidence.

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It doesn`t fit. Nothing that she says fist.

Jean, really, whatever George or Cindy says is all garbage. I don`t know why they are doing these interviews.

CASAREZ: Why do you say that about George?

HERMAN: They`re absolutely pathetic.

CASAREZ: No, Richard. Why do you say that about --

HERMAN: Because George is a liar. George is a liar. He tried to commit suicide.

CASAREZ: So what?

HERMAN: It was a fake suicide. You can`t kill yourself with beer.

CASAREZ: He was just drunk.

HERMAN: I mean it was ridiculous.

CASAREZ: What did he lie about?

HERMAN: He`s ridiculous, this guy.

CASAREZ: What did he lie about?

HERMAN: All his gambling, all his affairs. His gambling, his affairs. He`s conduct as a husband and as a human being.

CASAREZ: I want --

HERMAN: That`s what he lied about and that`s why people hate him. That`s why.

CASAREZ: He lied about his conduct? What conduct?

HERMAN: Conduct as a father, as a husband. I mean, cheating on his wife, cheating on the family, gambling and not telling people. Having these affairs. Who knows what happened with him and his relationship with her? Who knows what went on there? We don`t know.

And we`re not going to get any NANCY GRACE bombshells from these interviews really. It`s not going to happen. This is pathetic. And Dr. Phil is just doing it for ratings. It`s really horrible. It`s a disgrace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

C. ANTHONY: Because my next thing will be down to child thing and we`ll have a court order to get her. If that`s the way you want to play we`ll do it and you`ll never --

CASEY ANTHONY: That`s not the way I want to play.

C. ANTHONY: Well, then you have -- no, I`m not giving you another day. I`ve given you a month.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you present in your home when Caylee Anthony died?

G. ANTHONY: No. And when I heard that today, it hurt really bad. Because if I would have known something would have happened to Caylee, we wouldn`t be here today. There`s nothing more I can say to her. Because I blame her for Caylee not being here.

MCGRAW: You blamed her then and you blame her today?

G. ANTHONY: Yes, sir, I do. I do.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And this is brand new emotional video. First time airing today of George and Cindy Anthony on the "Dr. Phil Show."

We cannot conclude without talking about the shovel. Because the shovel was a point of contention between George and Cindy Anthony today.

I want to go out to Robyn Walensky, anchor/reporter for theblaze.com.

What did George say about the shovel that we heard a neighbor testify, the next-door neighbor, that Casey borrowed very shortly after Caylee went missing? And what was Cindy`s opinion?

ROBYN WALENSKY, ANCHOR/REPORTER, THEBLAZE.COM: Well, it was two days later that the shovel was borrowed. Casey came to a neighbor, and she borrows the shovel from him and then backs the car up into the house with the trunk facing the house, very suspicious.

And it`s the prosecution`s contention all along that she used that shovel that she borrowed from the neighbor and tried to dig a hole in the back because that, Jean, is where the dogs hit on the scent. So by the little -- her Caylee`s little playhouse that the grandparents had built for her.

CASAREZ: And Cindy said that she believed she borrowed the shovel for the bamboo, to get the bamboo out of the way.

Wendy Walsh, Ph.D. joining us from Los Angeles. I don`t see America loving George and Cindy anymore. I see them angry at this couple. Why?

WALSH: Well, I think so many Americans have been angry at this family in general because of the amount of lying, because of the inconsistencies in the story, because the truth just hasn`t prevailed anywhere. And we`re left with a feeling of loss and hanging in the balance is of course the life of this little child.

CASAREZ: All right. Thank you to everyone.

Let us stop to remember Army Corporal Yari Mokri, 43 years old, from Pflugerville, Texas. He was killed in Iraq. His awards included the Purple Heart, the Bronze Star, and Combat Action Badge.

He loved playing soccer and learning about different cultures and languages. He also enjoyed playing the trumpet, guitar, and drums, and he wanted to pursue a career in law enforcement.

He leaves behind his wife, Andrea, parents Mohammed and Donna, brother Mazr, and Desiree.

Mokri, an American hero.

Thank you so much to all of our guests, to you at home for being with us tonight. We`re going to see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, everybody.

END